Transcript: Episode #164: Flavors of Freedom
Below is the complete transcript for this podcast episode. This transcript was generated using an AI transcription service and has not undergone human review. As a result, some of the words in the text may not accurately reflect what the speaker said. This is especially applicable to speakers with distinct accents, as the AI might encounter difficulties in interpreting and transcribing their speech. Therefore, it's important not to reference this transcript in any article or document without cross-referencing the timestamp to ensure the precise words spoken by the guest.
Host 00:02
If this is your first time listening to our podcast welcome, our programming brings a diversity of voices connected me and Mark to share their perspectives, thoughts and reflections about what has been happening there since the military coup in 2021. All of our guests share one thing in common, a deep personal stake in the ongoing crisis. And it is an honor for us to be able to bring their voices into your ear buds. But however difficult it may be to hear some of their stories we hope that you will come away with a deeper and more nuanced understanding of what is happening there.
00:58
Know he, he HA HA HA Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha yeah.
Yunanda 01:38
All Omega lava everyone, my name is Yu Nanda. And I am excited to introduce you guys to of course, have a really awesome recipe. I'm sure most people are totally familiar with it. Either. You have been privileged enough to enjoy that at home hopefully made by your grandma mom or just just an overall Auntie that have made it for you. Or perhaps you enjoyed it in the streets, with, you know, in one of the markets, or perhaps even one of the monastery festivals. You know, it's one of the core staple dishes to our entire community. And it's one that I'm sure you are already thinking about in your mind. It is Mohinga the ultimate dish I honestly can eat this breakfast lunch dinner anytime really. And you know it is traditionally made for breakfast. I'm sure most of you guys are totally aware about it. But I wanted to kind of just walk through it and share with you if this is something you've heard of but maybe are curious to maybe seeing if you can make it at home or yeah, just just being curious and checking it out. So Mohinga overall is a firmer Celli rice noodles, fish soup. And because Burma itself is so it's surrounded by water and of course the main river that goes through arrowed way. River it's a lot of seafood seafoods really our main protein right, so this seafood, I'm sorry, this fish the overall is super, super important and a staple for us. It's also using very common ingredients that's very humble and cost efficient. The most expensive thing on this ingredient list is going to be the fish. There are two types of Mohinga. There is of course the classic traditional moving up which is going to be using more of a river caught fish. Mainly catfish is usually the most common. Or if you're going to check out the other version, which is the Raquin state Mohinga that is going to be more of a spicier, more brothy version, but they're essentially very similar, but the Raheem Mohinga they are on the western coast. So their fish base is going to be a ocean hot fish. So such a snapper that's going to be very common. So there are two versions very similar just the fish and the spice level is going to be different and one's broth here than the other. So you get to totally mixed between the two based on what type of fresh fish is near you. But essentially the main ingredients is going to be rice vermicelli you can choose either catfish or snapper since those are mainly the the common fish that I personally use and it's mainly found also in all of our traditional dishes. Of course you gotta have your onion, garlic, lemongrass, tumeric smoked paprika, and you can choose the thickener also known as you know a roux, either you can have it as a toasted rice powder or you can do a toasted besan flour which is the chickpea flour. So either choice of those, I personally use the chickpea flour because I think it's a nice, nuttier taste to it, but you can choose between the two. You got to have your boiled egg, shallot bulbs, fish sauce, and shrimp paste. So these are really like the core ingredients. And it's really commonly found in most of our kitchen, especially if you are an Asian cuisine fanatic such as myself, these are common things that have. So that's really the main ingredients that you need. So, really, now you have your main broth right there nice and simmering on low, it's going to smell amazing. And while it's starting to simmer, this is when you can go ahead and add a the shallot bulbs they are my personal favorite, when you throw them in there in the broth no means gonna soak up all that deliciousness, but it becomes so tender. So when you eat it, it's like it kind of like pops in your mouth. If especially if you have the small to medium shallot balls, it like pops and all the all the all the broth just comes right out. So you want throw a good amount of those into the soup while it's still simmering. And for extra bonus points, if you have access to a banana tree, oh my goodness, you're so lucky. Go ahead. And if you want to make it super authentic, if you can have access to this banana tree, what you want to do is get the trunk of the banana tree and you do you know the outer layers are gonna be tougher, right, it's gonna be like it's in a harsher conditions. So you want to peel the very outside parts away until you get more into the center of the tree trunk. Essentially, like a heart of the banana tree. So in the in the middle, it's a lot more tender, or also, you know, in our Burmese term, new day, so it's gonna be very, very tender in the middle and you can slice that up. We normally have it like a very thinly slice, but you can cut it however you like. But I like the long slices. And at this point, when you throw in the shallot, Bob's into the into the soup, you can also put in your banana, treat your tree pieces, slices in there, let it slow cook really allowed to get even more tender in there. And there you go. You got this beautiful delicious broth. And while that's going on the best time to serve this, as well as nice and hot. So if you are ready to serve it right here, go for it. If you're somehow helps yourself control to wait to serve it another day, you can totally chill it and refrigerate it for later on. But if you're gonna eat it right away, which I think I would do, let's make sure we have our vermicelli already cooked. You can either cook the noodles in advance with little bit of oil added in there so they don't stick too much in advance. So once you have your noodles, and you have your beautiful broth, we got to talk about toppings too, right, that's our third thing on the side. When it comes to toppings. This is where you can get crazy. Make it creative as much as you like. Everybody likes different build up to their plate, you can make it super acidic, you can make it even more umami with your fish sauce, you can add more of that. You can add more lime, you can add cilantro, so it's gonna be like a little topping platter on the side of all of those ingredients along with our boiled egg and the egg. It's up to you. I personally like to just have it sliced in half and chopped open it's it's just beautiful to see the yolk. I think it's always nice to see it when it's slightly like not Heart to Heart boiled but like it's still semi soft for the yolk. I think it's tastes so good. So you're gonna have your eggs, you have your cilantro, you have your lime, you have roasted chili flakes, and you can also have chickpea fritter crackers on the side. This is something it's optional, I don't think it will be a traditional Mohinga without it because that's such a fun nutty crunch that it's going to add. So if you are planning to make those crackers, essentially what you're doing is you will get like a like the dry split pea beans or the or the chickpea beans. You want to make sure you soak them overnight. But once they're soaked, when you're ready to make them into little fritter crackers, you get rice flour, make sure you season it with some salt, a little tumeric and you fry them so they become these like large flat, crunchy pieces. And it does take a little while so maybe this is something you want to prep in advance. I would recommend it otherwise your Mohinga is gonna get cold. So if you want to add these fritters, they're great. Some people have substituted for wonton strips, it's totally up to you. But if you want to pay the full respect to doing a traditional route, let's go for it. So that would be our our little topping platter. So when you dress it up, you're gonna put your vermicelli rice in your bowl, ladle the soup or the broth that you've made all over it. And now you can build it by adding all of your toppings. So essentially, when you look at this built Mohinga bowl, you notice you're going to have the acidity, you have heat from the chili. There's so many different textures of freshness and fried and soft and crunchiness. You have the umami from the egg and the fish sauce. And the colors, majority of it is going to be this beautiful yellow, and green. But this yellow is almost like a golden yellow, which is, you know, it's ironic, I guess, because Myanmar or Verma is definitely known as the golden land right with all of our beautiful golden pagodas. So the colors really represent it well. And I think that's also why we have officially said, you know, this is our national dish of Myanmar, which I'm totally proud to say that it is it's so good. And I really, really hope you get a chance to, to enjoy this at some point. And if you have not had in a long time, make sure you you make it for yourself, why not share with your friends and family.
Host 11:15
Thanks for that. And I think we probably could have had a bit of a trigger warning for guests who are listening on empty stomach because this is definitely gonna be floating in their mind and then some x but hopefully motivate them to to take it on. So yeah, Mohinga is really the national dish of Myanmar. It's like, you know, what hamburgers are in the US or sushi is to Japan or something like that. And so to talk to you a Burmese diaspora in the United States, when you hear of Mohinga or think of Mohinga what what is it that comes to mind? What is it that represents to you? Or what memories come up? Or What place does it hold in your heart when you think of Mohinga
Yunanda 11:52
when I think of Mohinga i It takes me back to of course, when I was little I originally grew up and was born in Yangon. So there you know, it's like the main big city. But my grandparents from my mom's side, they originally came from like one of the farther out villages and they had the opportunity to go to the bigger city, which is Yangon, which was the capital. And when they went to Yangon, my grandfather, he was very involved in like the bookkeeping aspect of the contributions made to all the monasteries. And he spoke English pretty well. So he was you know, he had a job there right away. My grandmother she had, she was mainly raising the children, they have four children. And my mom is actually the baby. Ironically, I am also the baby, my family. So my mom being the baby, and, you know, my grandma's just kind of holding it down. She was such an amazing cook. And what she did was not only you know, she fed the family, but on on the mornings, she was also involved in the markets. So in the markets in the morning, like not only her children are helping her with the sales and making sure you know, they're they're helping out with the dish ups of the of the samosa or you know that ninja eat though, which all the different upvotes which means salad, or like the count swears all of these dishes are always up and all the locals came for her for sure. But the number one dish that everyone knew her for, and it always sold out. Can you guess what might have been? Mohinga? I don't know. Wild guess. Right? Yeah, it was Mohinga. And, you know, this, you know, for me to even like learn back a little more of our family history, it hasn't actually been brought to my attention until like, within the last two years, which blew my mind because I've always had a feeling for like cooking and it's just, it's just fun to do. It's like, you know, it's my creativity let outlet because I want you have to have something like that. And it's something that people will come over and enjoy and you can share stories about so when I heard about this, or when I finally learned about it, it's just it blew my mind that like, you know, it's kind of like in our blood, you know, to like serve it up and you know, just feeding community like it's, it's kind of like, rectified like I'm on the right path even more so. Has a very special place in my heart, for sure. And I always make it extra spicy.
Host 14:41
Yeah, that's great. Well, if I can tell one of my most unique Mohinga stories, which I think probably stands out from from what anyone else has had an experience like this i So I spent I've as listeners to this No, I lived in Myanmar about 15 years I was I went through different stages of my time there and I had a monastery stage where, for several years, I was living mostly in monasteries and and engaged in practice at the time and was really, in my time in monasteries, I was really quite removed from the the worldly aspect of, of life, not just of America and what was going on here with, you know, politics and worldly issues and everything else. But also when Myanmar and I had been actually before that I'd been with the US Embassy. And so I was very much involved in things on the ground, and Yangon, and really left that all behind for some years to just want to learn about monastic life. So setting the context because for the story that follows, I was just very much removed from really carrying or thinking about things beyond what I wanted to learn about the monastery. And it so happened that sometime in would have been January or February 2015. I was in Yangon for something and somehow I found out that the next morning was the American Super Bowl. And even though I had like not been following sports for years and years, this kind of like funny thing, where like, if I was somewhere in the world, where I had the chance to watch the Super Bowl, I should watch it no matter what it was almost like, I don't know, it was just it was it was actually a cultural thing. To me, it was just kind of like connecting back to my childhood and just remembering like, what it's like to watch, like the big game. And so I wouldn't like kind of go out of my way to but if it was just easy to do, I would always do it. So I was so I was like, Oh man, I just I have to do this I have to find a way to watch this. I was in Yangon. And so I I found out it was starting at like five in the morning or something. And I found a sports bar in downtown Yangon that was showing it. And you know, mind you, I haven't drank and I don't know how many decades following the Buddhist precepts and not just not drinking, I haven't really even been around those kinds of atmospheres or environments just being in monasteries. But I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna wake up at five in the morning. And I'm going to go to the sports bar with a bunch of other Americans and presumably, and like watch Seattle against Denver, and I get there and I'm just complete and I'm wearing alongI because that's like not to make a statement. But that's like, the only thing I have like that's just that's what I'm wearing monster like I don't have anything else at that time. So I walk in an American wearing lungi, which like immediately seems to, you know, seems like it's making a kind of statement that I'm not. And immediately, like, super uncomfortable around a bunch of American sports fans. And in the corner of the bar, I find I see. I mean, I should mention, I'm kind of freaking out because I'm just like, I have not been in this environment for so long. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to sit. I don't know any protocols. And I think my eyes are deceiving me. But I swear to God in the corner of the bar, I see this monk, and I'm like, I'm just like tripping out there is no way I'm seeing a monk in the corner of this box in the morning. And I stare at him like I stand in front of them. I stare I walk away, I stand in front, I stare. And finally like, like, I hear Him say Host Why don't you come over? And it's like, okay, my eyes aren't deceiving, because I was literally like freaking out that like I didn't know what to do. And so I sit down and it sure enough, it's this monk from Washington state who I admitted a monastery some months ago. And he had gotten permission from Heceta to go to the same sports bar at five in the morning to watch his Seattle Seahawks in the Super Bowl. And so I'm just like, Oh my God, I am so grateful. You're here. I'm freaking out. I don't know what to do. And so I sit down with him. And for anyone who knows the Seattle Denver, I should mention I relocated to Colorado. So I was I had a written interest in Denver. For anyone who knows how that suitable turned out. Seattle just destroyed Denver within a couple of minutes. And so it was like three hours of basically the game was over. And while we're both watching the Super Bowl, we have basically a three hour conversation about meditation and Buddhism and, and other things. So it was like just one of the most unique experiences of of that. But where the Mohinga fits in, is that at halftime, I stepped out of the bar to get a because I had it for whatever reason I hadn't got anything. It was all American food and walk next door to a Burmese cafe. I mean, obviously all the cafes are Burmese. I mean, we're in Yangon. So it's like a typical, you know, just typical eatery. And I sit down in order, I'm Mohinga and I'm and I should also mention them vegetarian. And so I knew about there's only like a few places and downtown Yangon that actually serve Mohinga with a vegetarian broth that friends have pointed out to me. So I knew those locations, you know, I would I would go to them whenever I was around. So I went to one of those places. Got a a vegetarian Mohinga and it was just one of the most surreal experiences because it was like you know, I'm in this like dark sports American style Sports Bar at five in the morning with a bunch of like American fans just going crazy with cheering for football, having walked out of yours in the monastery to just have this little experience. And I'm completely like, what's the word just like I don't know where I am almost you know, I'm I walk out of that first
Yunanda 19:54
culture shock.
Host 19:57
Reverse reverse culture shock. Yeah, yeah. So that air conditioned super American experience to sit down and like the heat and humidity and bustling sounds and noises and smells of Yangon to eat like the most typical meal there is with like the most typical Burmese experience and then walk back in and finish the game. And so that was like that juxtaposition of cultures. There's always something that like stood out and cracked me up. So that's my
Yunanda 20:22
goodness. Wow, that is wild. Yeah, you're like, Okay, I don't think I can I don't think I need wings or all that stuff that the Super Bowl. Wow, what a great story. It's
Host 20:34
not usually Mohinga is not usually your typical Super Bowl snack time.
Yunanda 20:41
It's not as messy as wings and all that. So I feel like yeah, there's a possibility.
Host 20:48
That's great. So going back into Burmese food, staying on that moving from Mohinga before we go into what you're doing with Burmese food in America, and also how Burmese food relates to the wider culture and such, just to understand what Burmese food is, and I know that's a really complicated question. It can go in many, many different directions. There's so many ethnicities, there's Chinese and Indian influences. And and there's not just one thing even as you pointed out, even the Mohinga you get in Yangon versus Mandalay versus Rakhine is going to be different. But as we talked about, before the interview, there is a general misunderstanding about what constitutes Burmese food. It's often kind of clumped together with its neighbors, just as there's often confusion about other things related to Myanmar. And one of the points of this podcast is to want to understand those in more nuanced and detailed ways with people who know that so I'm sure that as someone who's involved in in Burmese food, you get a lot of questions. What is Burmese food? Tell me? What, what what defines it? What What is it actually? And so how would you what kind of general overview would you get for that?
Yunanda 21:51
You know, you're I totally understand why everyone gets such a mixed array of descriptions when it comes to Burmese food because like you said, you know, we really have such a high influence on all of our neighbors. You know, like you said, a lot of Chinese influencers love Indian food and influence Thai for sure. We were talking about coconut milk and things. It's like, No, I mean, we love our coconut definitely, but it's not in too many things. Like entree dishes, desserts, however, lots of coconut, definitely, that's like our main like sweet treat Stefanelli. So it is such a broad way to describe Burmese food because it's such a fusion of Southeast Asia. Of course, there's, you know, the core things that does make the dish not really too influenced by any of our neighboring countries such as Mohinga. Or like LePen, which is the fermented tea leaf salad. Those type of things do make it just be us. So when it comes to an overall Bert like what makes Burmese food Burmese food, I think what makes it so beautiful is that we have like that adapt adaptability to kind of just invite people or like different tastes and culture and we'll like mix it up a little bit based on what is our local locally available, you know, goods like our you know, if it's going to be a mainly vegetarian base, which is going to be coming from an Indian cuisine, we may add certain things because it's so locally sourced next to us for like seafood or or, you know, specifically chamomile, which is like a sour leaf, sour leaf, vegetable or water, grass, spinach. So it's it, you know, it is still a hard one for me to answer when people ask me honestly, I kinda am like, well have you what kind of food you like, and if you honestly, like, you know, just Asian food in general is such a beautiful harmony, where we, we like really allow the balance to shine and all different parts that have such an influence for us, you know, so, yeah, it's still a hard one to answer honestly. Yeah, I think yes.
Host 24:09
You know, certainly like, as you mentioned, the Mohinga and the pickled tea leaf. Those are the Pepto right those are, those definitely get a lot of attention to being unique. But for me, the truly unique part of Burmese cooking that I love and haven't found like any parallel and any other cuisine I've had even even in terms of influences is the salads or a thought. I mean salads are just incredible. You could just go on with like the penny word salad and the green tomato salad and the ginger salad and just everything you know I don't I don't know how you translate that the Sheltie throat but like and that's something you know that's a fruit you can only you can't get easily in other places, but just the combination of textures and sweet and sour and crunchy and everything. The salads are just really a defining aspect.
Yunanda 24:54
And that's really why I went ahead and you know, and And, you know, started up though lay because though it's, it's, it's such to me like, it's such a humbling concept because it's almost like, you know, when you're in college you're broke and you're just like, I have nothing to eat and you just like look in the fridge and you kind of like, oh, let me just put this on that and oh, it's pretty good. So when it comes to, though, you know, we're pretty rural property, country obviously. And you know, we just don't get a lot of protein source and things like that. So the adaptability of adding our proteins from a lot of that chickpea flowers and beans and nuts, you know that that really comes into like the texture and the umami feel to all the variety of votes, you know, love, love our dishes, our vegetable base, because once again, it's just cheaper than having protein. So when it comes to it, though, like, it's such a mass variety that you can take it. The main, I personally think the main goals, which you pretty much said on most of the votes are going to feature and I've set it all Mohinga. And I think that's really the ultimate goal for any dish that I whenever I eat something I'm looking for, is it going to have the acid is it going to have a heat, the texture, umami, and the colors, right, the presentation, and every though it's gonna hit you with that, and it balances, right, you're gonna have some sweet, but they put salt in it and sour to really just harmonize everything so and that's you would think you're just back to zero, because you've balanced it like cancels out, it doesn't cancel out. It's just like, builds more into one form. So yeah, though, it's just so fun to me. And my mom honestly makes the best notes all the time. Like whatever's in the fridge. She's like, she just wakes up something. And I'm like, What's that? It's just a rice up, though. Like she'll say to mantha, which is rice without, but it's like, different every time because it's based on what we have. And, and she'll make sure she hit all those elements. You know, it's just like, Oh, okay.
Host 26:56
That's great. And you, you mentioned something about just the some of the poverty that exists in Myanmar. And I think that connects to this is kind of a good segue to looking at how food is related to culture, and economy and governance, and all those things that aren't readily apparent. There was a quote that stood out to me that I read last year by the, he's a Thai based travel writer named Joe Cummings and travels, writes a lot about Thailand, but also about neighboring countries. And he was asked about Burmese food and said something that was so obvious, and yet I never considered it in all my time, there he was, his answer about why Burmese food wasn't better known in the world was that because of the poverty that so many people live under there, which, of course, is a direct correlation with the terrible military regime that's been in power for so many of these years, that there is that most families just simply don't have the money to buy, to cook with better quality ingredients, like just simply the rice or the cooking oil, or the sauces or whatever else. And so because of the poverty with which people have to find a way to cook with and to eat, the, the quality of the overall cooking is, is less because of that, and he's making the argument that if you know if that if you have the chance to eat Burmese food in Myanmar with a middle class or higher home, that the taste is really very different.
Yunanda 28:21
Yeah, definitely a correlation between the two, you know, it's I think, our people are very resilient. And, you know, they're, even though there's a lot of like, oppression, and you know, all the struggle happening ahead. It's like a repeating, like Groundhog Day nightmare. I wanna say, it's like, there's a cry, you're like, oh, geez, here it is, again, you know, but the people are just so resilient. And I'm so yeah, I'm so proud to definitely be Burmese as well. And it's because of what's the like, we even out of all this, you know, people they get, they get so creative, and they're, they're going to make sure, you know, whatever it is that they have, like, they're, they're so welcoming, they're just going to say come over and eat, it doesn't even matter. Like, even if they have like a little bit, you know, they're just like, oh, just come over and share and eat. And, you know, that really builds a lot of like, can not just connection, but just a support system, that's really rare. You know, just to say, come over and eat with you. Like, that's, that's a huge deal. Especially if, ya know, if it's rarely, you know, it's really hard to put your put food on the plate in certain parts of Burma for sure. So they're just really watching out for each other. And the connection of the food is just, you know, like, their, their way of being like, Hey, I'm here for you even though like politically, we might not be able to talk too much about this or that because I'm scared but it's like, you know, hey, we're in this together. It's like that unsaid communication line, you know?
Host 29:52
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's, you know, it would never cease to amaze me how many places I would end up spontaneously, whether it was a monastery or a friend's house or friends family house or even a queen, even people I'd never met before that just someone had brought me there and we happen to be there and there was always food ready and prepared, there was always something extra ready for to be to be fed and to eat and just the most random and spontaneous occasions and you just contrast that with American culture. Where if, if you're inviting someone for dinner, I mean, it's so much more of a formal thing of like, well, what time can you come? And okay, we can, can you eat this and okay, I'll have this prepared, okay, we have to go shopping for this. And it's just this big production and in Burma, just time and time and time again. So many cases that you just happen to be here be invited there, you went this way, and there was just always food for to serve to you. And not just not just leftovers, not just me. Another thing to say is that that also is how Burmese food relates to the environment that is in is that so much of it is cooked fresh, because the country has had such problems with the electrical grid, there wasn't really many people couldn't store food. And so, to this day, you know, so much of the food is just cooked freshly. And I think that also feeds into the kind of monastic culture where you would if you spend time in monasteries, you see how the food that's offered, you know, first goes to the senior monks and then goes to the junior monks and the novices and the nuns and just keeps going down the line down the line, then eventually, the day laborers you know, get kind of this big bowl of, of whatever leftovers have been mixed together. And then after they eat, then it's the you know, literally the dogs, the crows, the cats, and then down to the ants and the other insects and so you just see, nothing getting wasted. And yet this fresh food being prepared and made every day and there was always enough of it. I mean, there was always I mean, I think if someone just came over randomly my home, yeah, I could probably find some leftovers and heat something up or a microwave. But, you know, that's totally different than just having and we should also say about Burmese food. It's not it's it's often many different curries and salads and soups and other things cooked entirely separately. So you could have a platter of, you know, easily 10 different things and 10 different bowls that you eat and that are served separately and enjoyed separately and, and cooked fresh every day. And I've even had instructions from Burmese of how to eat it of how like, yes, you should have like a little bit of this soup. And then you have this salad to reflect this tastes. And then you have this rice to balance this out. And then you have this curry to do this. But then you have the pickle with the curry. And so there's
Yunanda 32:27
just it's always, yeah, they'll always have their own bias way. Oh, okay, I'll eat this. So and the person next to us like No, no, you want to, like build it this way. And it's so it's yeah, it's almost like every play is never going to be the same because you get such a spread of like all different things in the front of you almost. I think that's why I thought I fell in love with tapas. Like instantly when I found out what tacos were, because I was like, oh, like perfect order everything, a little bit of everything. Give me a bowl of rice or whatever. And then it's like, Oh, everybody just passes a little bite of everything making their own unique bite, you know, and each bite you try to build it? Yeah. Like you're not just gonna do one scoop of everything. It's like, you got to put a little tab of that pickled mango a little bit of, you know, a little bit of the soup on top, maybe on the rice and a little bit of the curry you got to have that ratio. It's it's really fun to like, customize and have that playful death for each bite.
Host 33:22
Yeah, definitely. And I'm really glad that you contrasted this sense of the reality of some of the poverty that's there with the extraordinary sense of generosity, I think those that's really the full picture to understand. And I think nowhere is that more evident than the monks alms round. And I've had foreign friends, western friends who've become monks and have gone on the alms round. And to a person I've never heard such consistent emotion being described as what it has felt like to be walking in silence with feelings of goodwill, and to be passing by very humble villages where where it's very obvious that the means are very low there, and giving spoonfuls of rice to the monks with such a pure and generous and really joyous heart. And the monks, these foreign monks telling me that there's nothing that inspired their practice as much as when they would come back from those ALMS rounds and just feel you know, the the wealth of gratitude being given to them that they just felt compelled the practice that their practice was, was not just for themselves, and not just something they were trying to purify their own minds and find their own inner peace but but like this service of wider society, that they had been invested in and I think what if we take more of a meditative or Buddhist angle on this part of the conversation? I think that's something that that one by and large misses to a large extent in, in Western society is that this sense of of all the different parts coming together and feeling really integrated and holistic and in and not just pursuing one's own practice in one's own way but part of something part of a much greater whole
Yunanda 34:54
Yes, my one of my you know, my mom deaf she's very involved in the monastery and men Buddhism and I I'm so so fortunate and I'm so thankful that she like, since I was like, I don't know, three years old, she will take me to the monasteries. And it was crazy because most kids obviously my age or like, want to play outside and stuff. And she was like, oh, sit down here like, see if you can meditate with me or, or like I'll learn all the chants. And even to today, I still remember a good majority. And that's something I wanted to like, definitely reconnect to him further later on. But like, I'm like, I was just like, sit there as a three year old and like, meditate with like chant and like, the best memories were like, once again, when the food was Sir, the potluck, right? The full moon festivals and stuff. And you best believe you bring yourself like a little little tupperware. So you take stuff home. And one of my favorite things about Buddhism and like chanting at the end, is the thought do at the end, which is kind of like, like, your blessing back to like everything else around you, you know, so it's not necessarily like, oh, like, I hope I win the lottery, I hope I, you know, this or that, it's like, no, I just, you know, I'm just the connection and what you're building through prayer, and, you know, intention, your, the whole, the whole goal is to, like, shoot, like send it out. That's, I think that's so beautiful. You know, I'd like to literally give it away. Like, that's the whole point. Because you you, you get what you give, you know, at the end of the day, so like, when it comes to food, like it totally transpired to that, because it's just like, oh, they may not have much for they're like, oh, here, please like take it like, I want you to enjoy it with me. It's the company.
Host 36:39
Sure, yeah. And I think that's a good segue into like, we were talking before about the way that food in general and Burmese food specifically was a window to the people and the culture or even the type of governance. Looking now at the monastery and the role of the role of food in the monastery, the types of foods, the if there's specific foods for different events, or just just looking in general at food at Burmese Buddhist monasteries, what comes to mind when you think about food in that context.
Yunanda 37:09
Um, you know, I always just think of like, well, moving on, it's not always at every holiday festival, but it just feels incomplete if it's not there. But there's always going to be all the curries. But the monks, you know, they they are obviously, they eat first and they obviously don't eat past a certain time because they fast majority of them are vegetarian. So when we do go to these potlucks, majority of things we do put out, we will make sure it's like vegetarian base. And it's pretty easy to do too. Because once again, protein is not something that is easily sore. So our staple foods are already very vegetarian based. But a lot of sweets are not sweets or something. I think it's funny because you know, me diving into the culinary world. And like when I was little, I would eat all of it. But I don't know what any of them are called. But I would recognize it just by looking at it and whatnot. But they're all really like rice base, which is which is interesting to me, because rice is obviously going to be in the entree, the main dish and such, but then in your desert, it's like, oh, it's rice, too. But we're gonna add, like, sweet to it, you know? So it's such a staple. But at the monasteries, and at the, at the potlucks, I do see majority is going to be a lot of the cows go swear or just different sizes and noodles, different vegetable mixtures. Everybody just brings a dish you know, that's that's what I love about it. And it's never always the same so you don't see the common but I definitely have like my own favorites, you know, that I go towards but I've honestly have not really eaten anything that I don't like.
Host 39:00
Right so let's talk about what you're doing with Burmese food in America with a thought let's share a bit about what you're trying to get off the ground and what your version and vision of how you're trying to bring Burmese food into a new context. Yeah,
Yunanda 39:15
so I you know, I definitely want to respect the authenticity and the traditional route of each dish that's that's something I definitely valued number one, but I do want to see more playfulness in our community just I think there's not too much high end on creativity is just not something that was very like introduced to us like get very young it's not something we promote to like early on. Yeah, you know, of course we're always gonna have our imagination stuff but I would I always felt like the creativity part was not the number one thing that they're like all about. So when it comes up though, lay I want to respect definitely the the authenticity and the traditional dishes, but I wanted to have always like playful takes on them and put My own little twist, I went to when I first moved from Florida, up here, I'm in North Carolina Asheville. Now, you know, my monasteries, and my Burmese communities was really back in Florida. So when I came up here, I eat a lot of Thai and I love Indian food. But you know, my mom's down in Florida, so it's just not the same. So I would call her a lot ask her how to cook things. And as I was kind of evolving, I was just like, you know, we have a really great culinary school in my town. So I went, I went and got my culinary degree. And it was, it was really fun, because it opened my eyes to how much more of a well oiled machine it could be and more of on a more professional scale and more elevated, that we could definitely take these humble, like dishes to. So I've always had that in the back of my mind, oh, I could add it like this, or that, you know, add a phone when that'd be fun, you know, but still have the authentic ingredients and flavor profile to it. So throughout the whole culinary school, I've always had in the back of my head that like Burmese food was my main reason. So after I graduated, I really worked on all the recipes at home, I called my mom a lot, my husband never really complained about having to try all my dishes. So that was good. I was able to just like not have any waste at all, it's all about supporting and he loves it too. So I worked on all the recipes and when it came to. So I graduated in 2021 of spring. And that was of course peak of COVID. And all that it was really intense because I was also doing full time work. But after I graduated took a year to really just finalize everything and realize, you know, I really want to keep continuing forward in the in the culinary world. And there's really no presence of Burmese food in the western Carolinas at all. So I just said, you know, let's let's just, I don't know how to start this, but I'm just gonna put one foot forward and I started my LA LLC, and did my first pop up in May 2022. And you best believe my first menu had no hang on there. With the with the love, you have to. So I had the love hat though. And then also BMO, which is like Burmese pancake pretty much with poppy seeds and you know, coconut flakes. So I had that. And it sold out like immediately. And I was like, oh, maybe it was beginner's luck. So I did another pop up, sold out. And I was like, wow, look at all these interests. And I kept doing these pop ups just to kind of see if there's curiosity here. And Asheville is a very creative city here. And the culinary scene here is so phenomenal. Like, it's top notch. So I was just like, ooh, let me see. Let's Let's keep this going and seeing if this is something we can keep continuing. And, you know, since 2022 of May to now I was able to finish up with like a pop ups a market and catering. And the whole concept behind it is not only to just introduce Burmese cuisine to people that have never had it, but majority which surprisingly, have they shared with me so many of their travel stories. And, and it is it's so lovely to hear. Because, you know, you don't you keep thinking like oh, no one really knows about it. And then they like look at all these people that are probably my neighbors. And I'm like, wow, like, it's really cool. That's literally my like bridge to connect to them and present it in more of a fun way and collaborative way. And putting techniques that I've learned in culinary school to play around with it, you know, I never really want to set any rules or any boxes on anything I do. So I really, you know, I'm just taking it and seeing where it goes. I'd like to keep continuing and doing pop ups. But essentially, the whole vision of this is to keep going until to keep doing pop ups and contribute it towards a small brick and mortar. I would love for a small spot to not only be a strong foundation of a spot for me, but you know, a spot for the community to come together if they can, you know, not only enjoy delicious food, but it will help you know spread awareness to what's going on in our country and just shed some light with our resilience culture that just, you know, what are we facing now? You know, and yeah, I just I feel like this is my my way, my path to add helping it be added to the culinary map, you know.
Host 44:40
That's great. And so you mentioned that you have kind of a way to respect the tradition and where it came from but also have a sense of creativity, playfulness in the food world that's often called Fusion in and doing so in a way that you found that within Burmese society is not so common. Can you give an example Have a particular dish that you you went through a process of playing with and came out with something different.
Yunanda 45:06
Yeah, so this is this is my first original take, and I actually did it. In my capstone when I was back in culinary school, it was part of like our final and I was just like, I really want to respect something that is super well known for, for me food, but how can I mess around with a little bit so it looks more fun, and it's a playful take. So lopat though, which we've talked about for a couple minutes ago, which is that fermented tea leaf salad, you know, we that one's really unique to us, because no one else really eats tea leaves. And you know, I love the leaf salad. So I was like, let's see how I can kind of like switch it up a little bit and deliver it you know, differently. So normally, it isn't a thought which is a salad so it's when you toss it all together, you got the fermented tea leaf, you got fried lagoons in there. Garlic chips are in there. Normally, it's like almost like a slaw mix with tomato and cabbage in there. So you mix it all up. It's it's an squeezed on lime on top, it has this like tankiness but you have like salty, it's just so good and fresh, and that you pair with a rice. So I'm thinking okay, this this concept obviously is beautiful and delicious to me, but as for someone who's never had it, a when you hear the word fermented, most people are already thinking like, ah, like that sounds like it might be stinky and might you know might make me feel sick, I don't know just fermented. But unless you're really curious eater, then those are my people. So when it because when you mix it all up, it's not as beautiful as it could be, but it's ugly, delicious, as most people know that term. So what I did was I did the mixture, but I I went ahead and elevated the the cabbage, I smoked it, it's purple cabbage instead of the normal, I wanted to add color to it too. So I got purple cabbage, and I did a puree with little coconut because I think coconut and the nuts in the beans there it's going to play well. So I added actually a little element of coconut milk in there to make a really smoky and beautiful and creamy cabbage puree. And the rice I did a sticky rice and put little black sesame seeds on top, you'll probably see a picture of it on my Instagram, it was like my very first one that I was like, This is it. This is my signature. And for the tomatoes instead of you know just slicing up and tossed view them in there. I went ahead and stuffed the lapel mixture with the nuts into the tomato after I blanched and peel the skin off so there's less less toughness. And then of course, squeeze of lime on top. And when you squeeze lime juice on purple cabbage, it turns into this beautiful like hot pink color, like interactive too. So it's you know, to me, it's just like, it's the litter like all the ingredients that's in the pet though is there. But you know now you when you squeeze the lime the color changes, you know how it's presented as different? Yeah, so I guess that's kind of like, like my main like baby right now that I've totally taken a little virginal take on. And I'm continuing to do that with other ones such as tofu though it was a which is a chickpea, tofu salad. But instead of, you know, mixing it all up, I'm presenting it a little different. I'm adding, you know, very light, fresh sliced cucumber. And we're putting the tofu though in the middle to roll it up. But then I wanted to add spice so I added like a, it's a serata and lime pearls, it's like a caviar. So we're gonna put that on top to add a little spice and the lime which it traditionally already has. So it's just delivered differently. You know, and, and I want it to be like small and intricate and fun and it's vibrant and color and flavor, which it will still respect the original recipe. So those are those are like the to like ideology that I have behind the Nolet I really want to promote promote creativity, too.
Host 49:20
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. You mentioned how once you started serving Burmese food, even in the Carolinas, people in small town there, people kind of come out of the woodwork with connections to Myanmar, I find the same thing I find it really curious that sometimes you think of it as this like isolated, exotic, faraway country that's not connected anything else. And then when you go out and start talking to about it, you find this person who does this meditation tradition and they know about it that way or this person whose uncle was in the Burma front of World War Two or this person who's always been fascinated by Lethwei or, or something else, this person who was on the Thai border doing this or that and once you start putting something out there, it's really incredible how can acted it is And don't even get me started on on some of the little known facets of history of all the
Yunanda 50:05
historical I'm here for it Well,
Host 50:08
I mean, just just just one of the things I was tripping on a few days ago is just, if you look at the so called celebrities that were on the Burma front, I mean, just to name two, I believe it was the grandfather of President Obama was an African soldier conscripted into the the British forces in World War Two that fought in Burma. And when I I've, that's been talked about for some time since he became president. But I just found out last week, which floored me was that Steven Spielberg's father was also on the Burma front. And Steven Spielberg was shaped by stories of his father, and as a child, of his father and fellow soldiers on the Burmese front, rehashing like, their, their, their war stories and talking about the, you know, the Burma fronts and World War Two is just horrendous. I mean, as bad as World War Two is, that was, that stood out is really the hell even among a hell of World War Two. And given the conditions there, you know, one of 10 people, one of 10 soldiers on the Burma front, on either side, died from the enemy nine of 10 died from the elements. I mean, that's how bad it was. And, and so Steven Spielberg, this, you know, this, who ends up being a storyteller of war stories and, and, and war films and stuff like that. He describes how in the fresh air interview I heard, he describes how that came from that that desire to want to tell war stories and and engage in storytelling came from hearing his father and colleagues describing their experiences on the Burma front. And so all these things just kind of Oh, when you, when you when you put when you out there, and then I mean, that's in a big scale way, just in a small scale, when you when you have a pop up Burmese shop, or in my case, when I've done different presentations or different different events, wherever I am, people come out of the woodwork in terms of like I did this or I have an interest in this or my family was like that. So the question I had for you with that was given that, that Burmese food is not so well known, and Myanmar itself is is always relegated to, to a very kind of simplistic even reductionist story of of what the country and people are in right now that the times are as, as bad as they've ever been. And the resilience is as high in solidarity is as high as it's ever been, with the work that you're doing in serving Burmese food and bringing Burmese food into your local community where you're living in the Carolinas. To what extent do you see the Burmese food acting as a representation for something more something as the people, the culture of the country, even the democracy movement in the hopes of that? And to what degree do you see it as just food as food as something to enjoy?
Yunanda 52:42
Well, I you know, I think it starts sparks of curiosity, you know, I'm sure any other cuisine, I mean, we, we know, a lot of the other cuisines pretty well, because probably starting through food, you know, like Indian food, for example, the spices came over, and we're like, oh, let's all this piques their interest. And now you can definitely get Indian food that's, you know, locally, almost everywhere, and which is wonderful, or Mexican food and such. So, and I think because people are familiar with the ingredients, the food, if something were to happen there, you know, politically or just anything you you're like, kind more connected to it, you know, you're like, wait, what's going on over there, or what it is, and you're, it's just, you have that connection overall. And it's, it's more personal to you, because not only you've enjoyed the food, but you probably have actually met the people from there. And now it's becomes more of like a, like a, like I said, like a personal thing. This is like, if something's going on over there, you're definitely more engaged. And I think, you know, number one thing is awareness. Right on, if anything is happening, we need to know that like, and only that people know about it. But if it's such a commonality that every most people know about it, we can actually build together on movements and actions and get together to help with change, or, you know, whatever that crisis is, I think, I think food is just an easy and common and very primitive way to just already pique interest from the star. I mean, we're human, we're, you know, food is energy, we were already gonna be like, Oh, what is that? So I think it's such a sly and like, easy way to just already introduce people to invite them to be like, hey, come check this out. You know, instead of just being like, just saying things it's or just telling someone about it versus actually tasting it, right. You're more appealing to more of your senses. When you're tasting it, smelling it, you're hearing about it now. Now you're like, Okay, I'm connected to this story. Like so I really think I'm You know, this is my little part and hoping that you know, as things are, are unfolding and such, I'm really hoping there's more connection that I can help build to to to my country through food definitely.
Host 55:16
Great. Well, well, thanks for all that it's been great checking in with what you're doing with bringing Burmese food to the Carolinas and your Instagram account and everything else will be linked to this episode. So everyone anyone who listen and passes through should definitely check that out and hopefully have a brick and mortars place. Eventually they can find if not the, I'm sure your schedule will be on the on the Instagram they can follow. Before we close, is there anything else you'd like to mention that we haven't had a chance to share yet here?
Yunanda 55:44
Just thank you so much everyone that ever all of your followers overall and the things you do to Joe, like it's, it's, it's honestly such an honor to be here. And if anybody is around in the Carolinas, come on by, I would love to hear your stories too. And, you know, yeah, let's let's, let's share more and connect more. And thank you so, so much.
Host 56:14
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59:32
whatever Ira Nanga, we're gonna do we're done and the reason is that we got busier and busier yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda