Transcipt: Episode #145: Meditation on Revolution
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Valerie. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:20
If this is your first time listening to a podcast welcome our programming brings a diversity of voices connected to Myanmar to share their perspectives thoughts and reflections about what has been happening there since the military coup last year. All of our guests share one thing in common a deep personal stake in the ongoing crisis and it is an honor for us to be able to bring these voices into your earbuds but however difficult it may be to hear some of their stories we hope that you'll come away with a deeper and more nuanced understanding of what is happening
00:50
there. Have you witnessed such resilience such selfless courage in the face of a jumpstarted which the people are undeterred there is no supreme say there is us and only US
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Saudi Arabia sabe some
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Uber Oh
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Sookie
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Jatoba yada yada he really had a good day today
Host 03:54
for this episode of insight Myanmar podcast I'm happy to be joined by Valerie or as she's known better in Myanmar as Barbie. So thank you so much for taking the time to join us here.
Valerie 04:05
Thank you so much for this opportunity.
Host 04:08
Yeah, so you've led quite an interesting and diverse life. Let's get right into it and start off at the beginning and tell us a bit about where you come from in Myanmar a bit about your family and some experiences growing up there.
Valerie 04:21
Oh, thank you so much. And it's my honor to share my experience all of you and hello to the inside pockets insights Myanmar podcast, listeners and viewers. My name is Valerie and I am actually was born in Burma in Rangoon and my mom is from Shan State and my father is actually 100% Pure Chinese from China from Beijing. And I mostly grew up as a Chinese Islam a Chinese Muslim and believe in Islam religions. So when I since when I was young, my both of my parents actually the The the invite a, the Islamic religious teachers to the home and basically teaching us about the Quran and all the principles of the Islamic religions. A home where we study, we, you know, we study at home for that, but just just I'm not, you know, since I was young, I grew up in Islam and religions, but my mind is always towards that, thinking that I don't basically I'm not I'm not really interested in to the religions since I was young and that I really understand it because of the parents because they're brought up. And you know, it's basically believe in Islamic religions. But I just I just don't really go for it. To be able for me to start how I converted to become a Buddhist, I would like to explain to all of you about my life a little bit. I emigrated to the United States since 1993. And of course, and I converted to become a Buddhist in the United States. So I think, you know, that's about it.
Host 06:08
Thanks for that. So looking a bit at your life before that conversion, when you grew up in a Muslim family, there's been much made about the Muslim experience in Myanmar over the years, the prejudice and the persecution and exclusion that they faced. I'm wondering as you were growing up with a Muslim identity, even if you didn't, so strongly, following with a religion, just even the identity and cultural part of being Muslim? Did you face forms of discrimination as you were growing up there?
Valerie 06:38
Be honest with you, I do not actually. I mean, whatever the the phases, right now about discriminations and all the battle against the Muslim religions, and honest with you, when I brought up grew up in Burma, I never I haven't faced any of that, you know, people have to be so kind to me and supportive of it. You know, even though it's, you know, my neighbor actually came to our home and celebrated with us, you know, altogether and stuff like that. So, actually, I didn't, I do not face any of that discriminations, or any, you know, outside of stores in the community.
Host 07:13
Right, that's, that's great to hear. It's great to hear about the range of experiences. And I think that sometimes hearing about one range of experience can can can infer a kind of blanket statement that everything is that way, and it's good to hear the the different shades that it can take. So
Valerie 07:34
because of the individuals probably might have an issues, but I think I went on when I was growing up, and I never faced any of those and all my neighbors are keen to meet. So yeah.
Host 07:45
That's nice. And so then when you made the decision to convert from Islam to Buddhism, looking at it from the other side, Did you receive any discrimination or judgment or from those in the Muslim community? Who, back in Burma who were, who didn't want to see you change from one phase to another?
Valerie 08:04
You know, what, actually, because I don't really care about that. So I don't know. But I know only know one time, when I'm back, went back to Burma back in 2009. And 2010, to me with my some of my family members, another family, I will say relatives, and they're saying that they're not happy about it, that I converted to become a Buddhist. But because of my mother, because of my mother, and you know, they are accepting to talk to me, but they're not really happy that I converted to become a Buddhist religions who believe in convert to become a Buddhist. So, but I don't know what others say about this. But you know, after I, my interview with one of my venerable teacher, meditation teacher will release it out to the public, I see a lot of people writing the comment about and different things. But you know, what, I don't really care because this is the individual perception, right? I mean, this is my rights, and this is my, you know, my beliefs and I believe that I can believe in anything that I want, and I really have to care for it.
Host 09:07
Right, and what did you believe in what what did bring about this decision to want to move from the faith in the religion you were brought up in and take on Buddhism, what about Buddhism made you want to start to follow this practice?
Valerie 09:21
Sure, you know, what, let me explain it to you versus the other religious of saying, you know, the five precepts, that they have to follow other priests that when you take a look at it, Catholicism, Islamic Buddhism, everything to say right, and the only difference is that I believe in karma, I believe in karma. And the So, basically, when you do bad things, you will you will be basically punch with the bad things when you do good deeds, you know, you will be receiving the good things Sunday, so I believe into that, and then more, more more, because prior to become a Buddhist, actually, I study I tried to understand about the Catholicism, I want to RCI across the six months. And, you know, on my last day that the Baptist that the pastor wants me to convert to become a Catholicism to become a Catholic. And I didn't show up there at the, at the ceremony because, you know, I just I just realized just don't you know, there's no answer that I'm looking for and also the same thing for others and I tried to studies but when I go read about the Buddha and about the lifecycle can be break. And you know, all those things, you know, if you, you know, if you don't want to talk about a Betta man, it's a lot of things to talk about it. So and I believe it'd be tomorrow. So you know, this is the reason why that I changed prefer to become a Buddhist.
Host 10:45
So by referencing Abbe Dharma, this is a book of scriptures that that in Myanmar especially, is very important and really define your guyses Burmese Buddhism even among other different Buddhism's of other different regions. And that was actually my next question was looking at when one just says Buddhism, that's it's not a monolithic, monolithic thing. There are so many different kinds of Buddhism, cultural time types, meditative, study different traditions, it's spread in different ways. And so what can you say about the type of Buddhism that you converted to was it particularly of a boomy Burmese background or shade, or what what type of tradition or background of Buddhist did you become,
Valerie 11:31
I actually converted become a Tera, Vaada Buddhist religions. So the Tera, Vaada Buddhist religions, and then I mean, there is three types of Buddhist religions, as far as I know, is Tera, Vaada, Mahayana, and Tibetan. So I basically converted to become the old and the oldest religions with Buddhist follow, which is the, you know, a founded called Tera, Vaada religion. So, I converted to become a Tera Vaada, Buddhist.
Host 11:59
And you mentioned that the Abbe Dharma was something that really compelled you to want to dig deeper into Buddhist teachings. This was something that stood out among the different religious traditions that were available. What about the Abbe Dhamma was so appealing and interesting? Do
Valerie 12:15
you know why when I first read about a beat, I'm honest with you, you know, probably my husband can explain it to you more, my American Caucasian gentleman, he used to serve a US Coast Guard, he's a veteran's officers before. And he you know, and then he also become a Buddhist, he also converted become a Buddhist back in 2017. So he studied a B demand more than I do for me, I, you know, I Oh, he even told me that, you know, studying a bit of math is not that easy. He said that he has been seen for reading a bit of math for two times, three times already, so he still have a question about it, he's still confused about it, and the demand is very deep to understand. So this is the reason why that that, you know, I have to explain that to you that I actually found out all these beings that are beating my see through the meditations back in 2018.
Host 13:12
And for those that maybe aren't so, don't know so much about Buddhism in detail, can you just explain the background grounding of what is the Abbe Dhamma? And what did you find in it that was so appealing,
Valerie 13:26
in a way basically, as for the Dhamma is actually I will say, looking at as the truth the truth of the nature does. So I'm looking at it you know, I mean, for example, say is Joe really there Joe is not there, right? Valerie's really there, Valerie's not there. So what is the form of Valerie was a Joe form a form of joy and what is the form of the computers or the wares you know from other lectures live and you know, all the houses they're all actually formed with the four basic properties of matters the mesh and a B the messages but till we Daesil elbow wire, we just all everything in the whole world that we see we touch we speak everything is actually formed with those four basic properties of the matter with which we call as a human waste substance right? So we basically are formed with the for substance so I mean, there's no really you there's no really I'm so this is basically you know, the the wizard heartbeat the the the knowledge about a reader is basically you know, to find you the truth about the you know about about the nature
Host 14:36
and what about It compelled you so much to want to study this that you actually actually write about a conversion to Buddhism and what attracted you so much to the writing in the Dhamma
Valerie 14:46
Yeah, after after the I after I converted become a Buddhist and and of course, I'm like, I was doing everything the same as other people doing normal people doing just doing rosary, you know, just anybody and And, you know, and following the precepts and you know, I really don't really believe in meditation and I don't know how to meditate at that time. I heard that a lot. But I didn't know what is the meditation is all about actually follow the other stuff. And the one day I met with the Sridhar masyado PRG. Actually, you know, I was very being unhappy about doing the rosary, because I was thinking, this is not, this is not a real Buddhist and what is a Buddhist and why people are meditating, I don't understand my meditation. And I keep doing that. And this brought me to very unhappiness, I don't really rosary anymore. And one day I was in Los Angeles, LA, and I met with this, I heard that the one of the, the famous meditation teacher named called Shri Davos, they are a big, open a debate when actually he has passed away already about several years ago. And I was fortunate to me with him, and I, basically, I went there, meet with him and talk to him. And he started talking to me about meditation. So I tried to meditate. But it doesn't work for me. Because when you when you you need to focus on your stomach, right? Still breathing in and out, you got to basically note it and be aware of the movement of your esophagus going, you know, expanded and expanded out and I tried it to that I can do I believe me meditation, you think easy, it's not easy. And I try to go for a minute to five minutes, I can barely sit there. My mind's are everywhere, I'm thinking about everything. So and I say no, and I don't want it. And then and then I go back to my rosary again, you know, I think rosary and rosary. And then one day, you know, Patiala PRG, who is very famous in Burma. And I met with him at the castle branch a monastery. And again, he has taught me about how to do Anapana meditation through from the, you know, touching the nose. So and I tried to do that, and still, I can't, so you know, what I just let you know, I just gave up, I know that I can do it, I just have to go the way that I understand. So. And I've been doing that. And then since 2015, and I went back to Burma, and I see a lot of those, you know, you know how in Burma is like possessing, you know, people still believe in possessing, right, we possess to that. And I can tell you, your future, or I can tell your past lives and stuff like that. So, and of course, I stuck into this, and I went there, and I see. And the first thing I noticed that is, you know, I noticed that, um, you know, maybe some people might be really processing people, some 30 might not right. So I look into that. And then I was thinking this is not right. And then and you know, how the, you know, sometimes people can be misleading about presenting to so and I was very being really unhappy. So and then and I was thinking that you know what, there's the way to break that there's a way that the power higher than that. I want to know, my meditation, what is a meditation so, and I've been talking around and sneaking around, and I turned out that one of the one of the, I will say, my friend referred me to the I call the Gmail G may anzia. And Jimmy actually introduced me to the 32, the online CRO PRG, who is my meditation teacher. And actually, I drove to sin guy in Mandalay to Melton to meet with him. And after I met with him, and then he actually talked to me only one day, he says that, if you give a time, if you if you really, really give a time to combine meditate here, I can guarantee you that I can teach you how to die, but I'm not going to be teaching you to become a sotapanna or become a leader. I can guarantee and 100% going to teach you how to die, how to peacefully die in your mind. So I say okay, you know, since the teacher can meet the can give it to me the certainty that he he will teach me how to dies I'm interested in to that what is how to die? And what is the peacefully die? So, so I said, Okay, you know, I accept that. So, and I came back to the United States, and, and I totally forgot about it. And I'm doing my own thing. And I'm having fun and again, looking back to my background, United States, of course, you know, I, I enter I was in several beauty pageant in my life, and I, I hold 12 titles in United States, and also a couple international titles as well. And I used to be a model model in Singapore. And, you know, I mean, I have been in contact with a lot of agencies prior to that. So, you know, in the modeling life and be, you know, in those kinds of MGB and beauty queen, and my daily job, I work for the bank. I am actually a manager of the commercial lending of the Bank of the United States. So, you know, I'm Just getting busy and just doing the photoshoots. And I totally forgot about it until one day, and I explained it to one of my good friends who's the mayor in the city. And we actually tried to look at the we tried to do the refinance, refinance and funding for the recycling company in the Bay Area. Then I went, I met with him. And we went to visit the recycling center together in the morning, around 10 or 11 o'clock. And at night, he suddenly had a heart attack and passed away. And I don't know anything until the next day. And then, and I was like, okay, you know, that thing happened, because, you know, you know, I mean, probably a misuse of a, you know, drinks and or maybe cigar or, you know, I was thinking so many things, right, maybe heart attack, so people put claims that heart attack, and, and I totally forget about and after two months later, one of my friends passed away again, I had a lunch with him at 1130 or 12. And he dropped me off to my office that 132. And then he drove back to Sacramento, when he arrived at the office. And he even talked, call me and talk to me, you know, we have some project that we need to work on together. And he was like, you know, let's work on it together. And I say, okay, and then after he dropped out the phone, 30 minutes later, and I got a text come in and saying that, are you available? Can I talk to you? And I say, you know, seemed like something going on. So I called I you know, I call it cell phone number and turn out that his son's pick up the phone, and he was telling me that it's okay for you to talk to the police officer. And I say, Why do I need to talk to the police officer. And he said, My dad just passed away that he was the last person that he saw. And he would like, they would like to know, what kind of conversation you guys are having and what kind of meal that he's eating. So I was shocked. You know, the other person I saw him in the daytime, he passed away at night. Right? Another person? A couple of hours. Still, I mean, Host? It is very, do you think is you know, is it a coincidence? I don't think so. Right? So I, you know, I'm starting to get nervous, I'm starting to get afraid and freak out. And, you know, my thought just hit me. I was thinking that what about if I die right now? What did I do? You know, like, like, the like the venerable unless, yeah, to say, do I know how to die? What is die? I never did before. Right? You know, I never, you know, anything. I don't know what is that means? I don't know, what is what I'm happy as a human being? I mean, what is that? I don't know. So and I got freaked out, I was nervous. And I wrote the email back to the Seattle Otama Perico, who is the one of the disciple and our follower of the hour theology. And I basically email him a buck, and please allow me to come to the meditation, I really do find the truth and know what is a true, please allow me for the 10 days meditation, so. And then I got accepted into it. So I went back to my country for meditation in May of 2018. And that's how it all started. And you know, so the first they actually have a three segment of it. The first is the basics, meditations for 10 days, then intermediate meditation for another 10 days, and they call it long haul meditation for a month. So I have completed the basic meditation and also the intermediate meditations for for both sections in my country. So yeah, that's how I started.
Host 23:34
Right? And what style does it teach? What did you learn on those courses? Like what in terms of technique and teachings did happen on the course.
Valerie 23:45
So So basically, when I first arrived, the meditation center, you know, for me is, you know, I work and my time is really, my schedule was really tight. So when I arrived to Burma today, and I'll go to the meditation center tomorrow, so I don't really have the resting period, time in the middle. So to get over to get over the jetlag, right. So and I just go there, and then I registered myself there, and I was so happy at the meditation should be easy. And then there's the there is a time schedule that actually posted on the wall that I saw that one hour and hour and a half, two hours and then you know, Lotus Pose, I'm like, You know what, this should be easy. You know, honestly, this easy, right? And we started with, there's the two one hour section for I believe, five times a day for two days, a second days, second half of the day start 130 And then the third day become two hours. And so when I first thought that was the first hours easy, like one hour, each section was easy. Java is not easy at all, after I set. First of all, even though I you know, the teacher actually, you know, turn on the guided, it was a guided meditation for the, for the first week, right? And then for the first 10 days, too, so, so when there was the teacher would they turn on that guidance, you know that he was telling you how to how to you know how to focus what to focus, what is going to be happening, and honest with you, I can sit straight and moving. And then, you know, my back was hurting, you know, my it was you know how Burma is human heart, right. And this weather and cheapness and I just moving along, and I had this number that I heard that the nun has been calling me. Number two, the 263 to six, they do not move, do not move. Embarrass because that's my number. And then I thought that oh my god meditation when hours and I just And then I heard a lot of people that it was like about 600 people, meditators, it's under meditators in the hall, big hall, and met, the man is in front, a woman is behind it. And again, you know, I just cannot I thought it's easy for an hour turned out that it wasn't easy. So after escape meditating on my second day, and you know, again, you know, my lip was cramping. And, you know, nom, and, you know, sometimes I stopped breathing. I don't know, I mean, just like, you know, because you have to use the machine to sit on a panel, right? It's basically. I mean, if you think that's easy to do, actually is not, it is not at all. So I just keep going on for a little while. And I just thought that breathing and then and then so I, you know, I don't know what to do. I got and then I hear a lot of people, you know, after they finish the one hour section, and then they talk to the nurse, they talk to the teachers. And you know, I heard a lot of people say, oh, yeah, I happen to do that. And this person happened that and I say, Nothing happened to me besides, hey, right beside me, and then and then the teacher keeps saying that you will have four snakes will be chasing you. And then you have to run through from that four snakes, if you keep dwelling on the four snakes, the fourth, and then I thought it was a real snakes. And then I was really afraid because I sit on the window and there isn't the snakes gonna come by bite me. I don't know what sports and exists, right? So just keep doing, you know, just I am honest with you. You think meditation is peaceful. For me, it's not I just keep you know, I don't know what to do. I'm lost. And, and, you know, I just, you know, whatever. And then on my third day, you know, I just thinking that, you know, I'm just gonna let it go. My fierceness, my pain is everything, you know, if I die die, because I'm really in pain. And you know, if you know, the pains, like, I'm going to die now, because I need some meditation to cure me up, I need to, you know, I even have to take a Tylenol at night. No joke, believe me. It was I didn't know what's going on. And I you know, because I have never experienced that before. And I want to give up. And the, the, the, the, the one of the requests on the meditation, if you give up, if you can, don't do not complete your 10 day sessions, you actually on a black list in the monastery, you will never go back to the monastery and then go meditate anymore, you're not going to be able to join in the future. So of course, I'm you know, and I was thinking that, you know, if I do that, oh shit, you know, people notice me in Burma. And, you know, my name is when they split it out. And it's plastic, my the person who introduced to me, she's also one of the one of the leader in this meditations too. So and I say, you know, it doesn't look good for her to you know, you know, I might let her down and I don't want this I say, You know what, forget it. If I die, die, I don't care anymore. My 10 days, I'm going to focus on it, you know, and let go everything I just, I just don't care everything anymore. So you know, I just on my third day, I just went upstairs, I just don't think about anything, I just go there and stuff, whatever following what the teacher was actually seeing through from the guided listening to you know, this kind of tape. And at that moment, at the moment the on my third day, the teacher actually asked us to, to, to do the Annapurna with the with they call it bouncing with the you know, with follow with your heartbeat when a heartbeat go once you basically, you know, you basically compete you simultaneously breathing with your heartbeat, and then I was able to do that. And I was really amazed. You know how hard he was fast, right? Yeah, but I was able to follow that I was thinking, wow, you know, that's and then I just just wow, and then I just keep my you know, my stuff, you just keep doing that. Keep doing that. And then in the afternoon, this is the first session done in the afternoon stuff from a puppy around seven, I believe eight to 10. So when I do that, and then I just basically, you know, because I found I found that, you know, and I you know, I just have to say it's the Do I know what to do now? So I just don't think about anything I just basically listen was the teacher was guided and then I just follow him follow his his his advice on this tape. So suddenly my mind I feel that my mind leave my body. So my body just just sit there and meditate, right? And there is a pain on my knee, but I know that there's a pain but you know myself, in their mind, the inner knee, the mind is detached from the pain. I feel that I'm very, you know, there's a pain but, you know, I know it's there's a pain, but I don't feel it. But there's a pain. And I know there's so my mind was detached from my body. And then I looked at it myself too, from my outside. Oh, that was me meditating. What happened to me what's going on? So I look at the nun and I look at the people in front of me, I can see it. So I specifically and I when I was sitting there, I specifically look at one of the nanny Fran made fun of me. And I was looking at her her head it was so shiny. So I just keep looking at her head and I can see the little hair follicle. Little inner little bluffing everything in detail. Isn't it pretty? Amazing?
Host 31:15
Right? Yeah. So you're looking in seeing things more closely?
Valerie 31:19
What clearly that what is in the body. So I was keep looking at her gym, you know, my mind, just keep looking at her, but my body is meditating. And I know, I can I can see it clearly. And I can tell it clearly. So and I see that that person you know, I see the nun head. And then the the knife just like slightly the her skin off. And that the muster the blood and the muscle off and everything just like and you know, just like waterleaf watery and just just just drop everything drop that become a bone. And I say what's the issue about and I look at myself, and I become a bone to to? And I look like myself? And then so if it's the bone then why am I why am I body? My body is paying? Because this is the bone? I mean, you know, why is paying well? How do I feel it? Why is pain there? And I tried to in my mind, just keep thinking what? Why? If I'm a bone then why am I feeling the pain and not there? I'm a bow right. So I hear the bell rings. So meditations done for two hours. And then they says the lunchtime is coming up. I love it, you know, go take a rest and go go go eat for lunch time is coming soon. So I just don't want to I just do not want to leave the meditation center. I just keep meditating stare. So I was keeping just keeping sitting there. And I hear the bell was ringing and asked me all the yogi to eat lunch. And then and then I look at myself. Am I do I really want to eat? Am I really? Do I really want to eat? Am I really hungry and I look at myself. So in my mind, I see that what about if I eat so I imagined myself if I eat this this rice or whatever I'm eating, it isn't the process through my body it because I'm bone so all the foods just like drop to the ground. So and I eat second time again drop and I drink water again. It just it doesn't go anywhere. Just go straight to the ground. And I was thinking that so I'm a bone. Right? My body form with the bones are wet lemme who's eating who's eating there? And I try to look for myself who's eating there. So I'm not eating the boy who is not eating? So who is eating what is eating? And you know, and I just keep looking at it and say, Well, you know what, I'm a bull, I don't have to eat, then, you know, it's okay. I'm just keep meditating and just keep meditating. And then I hear the guidance. In my mind, I would say, you know, the meditation harnesses the people who are guiding you, you know, those guidance, you know, your your, your guardians, were saying that, Oh, yeah, if you want to eat, go eat, I'll stay next to her because nobody was there anymore. Only me in the hall. So we just go and watch her, you know, then we'll take turns. And I say, oh, you know, we're poor them, they have to eat too. And then I just keep meditating and till until I say, Well, I'm the bone. That was the bone. And I looked at myself under the bone become a become a Western Hall, you know? Ashes, you know, just suddenly the bone just become an ashes, the bone, we're basically fragile and just like, drop and become an ashes. And I said, Oh, you know, we're not born anymore. I'm an ashes. That's true. I'm an ashes. And of course, I sit next to the window. Because you know, I mean, I cannot stand the you know, it's like, you know, this kind of humidity and heat. So the nun actually put me next to the windows. I feel a little breeze going, just just hit on me. So when I hit on me, I felt a little coolness coming to me. At the same time. In my mind, I see that I should just like, just just get away by the wind. So I was like, so I'm not anxious. I'm where am I now and nobody, I'm nothing there. Basically, I'm not here. You know? I mean, there's no Valerie and You know, there is no and I tried to look at my cat, in my mind and my cat because the same thing I tried to look at my husband, my husband become a same thing. So who am I? So we're not there? Why do we so be attachment and love and wants? And what is this? And I tried to look at my phone and my phone is not there to, you know, be broke? And is not there and a what is one? So why are we seeking and loving so much about having this attraction and attachments and you know, and what is going on. And so that's how I started out. So my evening, then I actually was sitting there for almost about two and additional like three hours. Just keep meditating there. And at nighttime, I discover I totally understand that my mind. I mean, I just my thought just hit on me saying that, you know, the teacher was preaching about saying about the four snake is not the actual snake, he is talking about the four basic properties of the of matters of a beta which is, but till we think about why you're because our body our body is formed with this, this substances called butter, we, you know, basically heated and cold and you know, firm and softness, and movement. And you know, and you know, so our body is basically formed with this for substance called buttery days or Apple, while you're at this, this is how I found it on my third days is is depend on you to let go of everything. You know, as for a s for a person, you know, people who live in United States, we all have to work seven days a week, right? So if you're going to go for meditation, I really, really encourage the person, if you try to go from meditation, leave everything behind. Don't dwell on anything. Don't worry about anything, leave to turn off the phone, because my meditation center actually pick up the phone. So you know, so do not worry about anything, just don't even look at your, your your phone, just focus on this 10 days, and you will find the truth, I think individual is different. But if you really do it, then I think you know, you can find something out of it right.
Host 37:13
And in terms of the technique that anglong Say at its heart, I think this is a tradition that unlike other traditions is not so available to foreigners, there's not so much so many opportunities abroad or in English. And so I'm describing a bit about the technique and the teachings. What exactly was the methodology that he taught on the course
Valerie 37:33
in the course is the the teacher who actually has broke into the couple chapters that you have to follow. The first basically for the beginner is starting with the Annapurna four which is breathing in and out, even though you have a pain your pain come in and you just basically focus on meditation, focus on breathing, do not lose your breathing the first thing and then from there, this is what we call it as a diurnal pattern kya you know, and then after that, then you become a school four with an undo button. So basically these are linked together. And then after that the teacher will will actually teach you about sleeping meditation, which is we call a Liang Liang lianca meter so the ultimatum is basically when you pretend that you're a die, you die already that's what we hours and you just basically you try to form you try to look in your body as your dead body you know, you try to for me, I try to look at my body myself as a dead person my funeral I try to picture my smi funeral. So, this is very interesting to how I want to share with you later about that too. So, and this is called the alma mater and then after Liao and then we go back to Anapana which is breathing again and and then we started with the Lotus post about you know that basically lotus pose for two hours and five hours and there is a another additional five hours for the additional five hours another post if you this is depend on you that you want to do it or you don't have to as long as you pass for five hours the first time it depends on you that you want to do a second time five hours loaded posts are not and once again after finish that you will come to Anapana again so the first 10 days on the base score is mainly focused on Anapana and Gaya and with nanopatterned and the first thing is that when you go for the intermediate meditation for another 10 days is basically state that said that is a bit they do they basically want to look at your mind but not follow your mind. Just look at it and do it just keep looking at it you know you don't you might believe you've probably meditated too right Host so when you meditate in your body what's calm and focus and your your mind will be thinking just jumping around sometimes you get into, you know like Burma sometimes you get into your family and business and listen that right so basically you only have to know about it do not follow it oh your mind is doing this your mind that this is the technique that very difficult to follow if you're somebody's level is not there it's very very difficult to follow and pass the standard but another level
Host 40:24
right and so you so it sounds like he the teachings involve some very strenuous on a piano at the start sounds similar like soon loon or something that sounds really vigorously practicing on a piano and then it goes to some kind of contemplation of of death and of the body at death. Is that correct? What What else is involved in the techniques? Correct?
Valerie 40:48
Correct. So you're correct actually, is actually exactly what someone's similar meditations because the founder of the Gu, the the first founder of the NGO CRO PRG. His name is Ashley obita. He's one of the well known arrogant, and that that actually read the book of the Similan Sayadaw G meditation and he actually practiced that. And he found the truth he became an arrowhead. And that's how they include began in Moby. So my teacher is following his step two, so my teacher is honestly an OPR This is also a and number 32 Thank you, John died the same thing. Yeah.
Host 41:29
So that's so outline is basically teaching in the tradition or lineage of saloon and then putting some of his own marks on the teaching is that correct?
Valerie 41:40
Which is the which is we call it a lotus post. Right? Because when you go for meditation, you will never you haven't seen you know, when you take a look at it, I mean, all the meditate and all the medic meditation sections in blowhole Burma, nobody's actually actually teaching you to the do the Lotus Pose, right?
Host 42:00
So it sounds like also, there's quite a strict regimen, about the style of how you physically sit, as well as the duration of the city in which I haven't heard so much about with other traditions, you know, like in Japanese, in various forms of Japanese Buddhism, you do hear more of an emphasis placed on on the type of posture but in Myanmar haven't seen that so much. But it seems like in this tradition, there is a real focus on not just the instructions you're following, but also exactly the posture that you're sitting in and for the duration of that posture. Is that right?
Valerie 42:33
Yes, that's correct. Because a lot of people that are meditation, you need to sit up straight, right, you're basically trying to try to, you know, a, I will say, to try to make it up that your your spine is straight, and you basically put a straight and to sit on it, right. And that's what I thought to actually meditation is not that meditation is basically relaxing. So the way that I did is that I tried to get the first grade, and like, I just let it go. So my body too, would drop by itself. So when my body stopped there, I don't move anymore. Because every every person, each different person body structure is different. So somebody can sit straight, because that's how the spine that's done that this is how the the person body is born, I sent him straight, sometimes people, you know, sometimes the person will be lounging a little bit, because the spine is a little bit curved than the other people, right. So you have to look for your body, you have to let go just drop it, you know, just just breathe in one, just breathing out. And then when you weren't breathing in, when you lay out at the same time you let go of your body and your body was stopped by itself. So basically, this is where your spine is comfortable, to be for you to sit in for a long time. So that's how I did it.
Host 43:52
And so at this point that you've taken your first meditation course with on one side, now, you had also been spending years studying the Dharma after converting to Buddhism and so your your identity as a Buddhist and your interest as a Buddhist before this course was really in study and the theoretical understanding of hobby Dharma, and only after some point, after some years of identifying as a Buddhist and going into the academic pursuits of of understanding Buddhism, you actually have this experiential moment in the meditation course a very rigorous and difficult meditation course. How did you come to find that? The this the study of Abbe Dhamma for years, then related to the actual meditation experience you were doing, what did you find is the relationship between this practice on this theory?
Valerie 44:45
Let me correct you one thing on that study and beat him up for a long time. It's my husband. So I study I study I read through the Viedma for only once, only once. So my husband study with this time, probably study about three three times already about a beat a man who's trying to take the test and beat him up the first step of test take the test in New York City or be the muscle my husband's can be more explained to you about more beat him I was in depth in detail for me is, I found that I read a beat a man that I found the truth was the true with the meaning of the, you know, the nature to from my body, which is like I say, you know, I'm not there on bone, and then you won't become an actress. And when the wind blows, I'm not there. So, literally, this is this is for the the whole picture saying, you know, the existence the there is all the existence in the in the whole world, even though the world even though the universe is not there. It's basically a form of substance. Hope you understand that.
Host 45:49
Right. Yeah, no, I'm just getting that I'm curious how the theoretical and academic study of Abbe Dharma related to the experience on the mat to actually doing meditation, how you find those going together,
Valerie 46:00
going together, because after I've finished meditation on my first transaction that I came by, and I share my knowledge, and what I found on my body, and I talked to my husband about it. So he actually, he actually agree with that what I'm saying? Because, I mean, he says that, yeah, this is what I've been taught in there, too. So yeah, isn't it isn't it amazing that, you know, every step that you find is right, because a peace of mind and you basically teach about, you know, you know, substance, what is what are the substance or art, and where the detail are, when you read it like that Host, you're not going to understand it, and then it totally different than when you read it, and try to understand it, or when you experience this, and you understand it, you know, it's but whatever the Buddha is saying, on Viedma, when you experienced this, when you find that the truth, everything is connected together. Because when you read it, like when you read it, and you understand, it's, you know, it's basically, it is totally different than when you experienced this and understand it, but when you it's come together, and after you meditate, and you read the book, I want to amp together, everything is going together. So I really encourage the people to to go to go practice about meditations and how does this rather, reading and try it and thinking about it, and oh, he or she will understand or they will understand, then go for meditate. And then after that, go back with a book and reading, I can guarantee if you find the truth, every week, everything will be linked together. The stepson does anyway, so we, you know, I found the truth of the being substance, you know, form with the, with the four basic properties of matters, and then you know, and minimizing the same thing to but when you first read the Abida up thinking personally, we're out the stuff chances are they really cute too. And obviously the thing about that is that my body was formed the first time when I read the beat him I was thinking that because I graduated and biochemistry and physiology in major. So and you know, you know, I should say has cabinets I was thinking about that. You said my body really really formed with the molecules and made the molecule what is the you know, what is this right? So I have so much puzzle in my head of when I beat him up when I read these my because a beat Dima is, you know, I mean, it just it just so depth that if you don't understand it, just go read it, it's gonna make you more confused.
Host 48:25
Right. So switching tracks a little bit on the same time that you're pursuing this life as a Buddhist of convert of converting to Buddhist faith of a theoretical study of the meditation, which is quite strenuous, as you've described, you also have this parallel career of being a model and, and going into beauty pageants. And I think some would maybe have some, some hesitation or confusion of as to where these two things fit together. One is, being being in the spotlight as a model is in some ways, highlighting a sense of beauty and whatever, whatever Beauty means, whatever sexuality means and in in the world, and the and especially the role of a woman and doing that. And then on the other hand, meditation is kind of renouncing and stepping away from dualism of any form and liking or disliking or any kind of materialism. So I'm wondering as you went through the process of being a model and entering beauty pageants, while also having this Buddhist identity and its interest in meditation. How did these two things come together? Did you ever see any conflict or was it a pretty smooth intersection between one part of your life or another? How was this
Valerie 49:44
eight was a big time? Thank you for asking questions. Before going to the meditator into the meditation, I love to put makeup every day. I like to put the fake lashes every day. You know, I have to be clean myself every day. And I'm joking. back from the meditation or my basic sessions July, I don't even like to put the makeup anymore. There's no, you know, why, you know, why do I have to put it? Right? Why do I have to put it? You're not there. Why? Why are you doing this? And, you know, I see what even though when I take showers when I'm brushing my teeth, and I, I noticed myself that you know, this is basically a waste of a duty from you, you know, like, I had to clean up myself. If not, then this body's gonna stink, right? And I haven't cleaned my teeth. Either way, my mom's gonna stink. So I'm doing this one as a matter of I duty for daily that I have to do that. You know, usually, this is not your body. This is not you. So it was really strange that after I came from the meditation, and I stopped, I stopped modeling, I stopped going to the beauty pageant, and I found out that there is no meaning for me. There is no meaning for me. And because because I'm not there. So what am I doing? Who is doing this? Right? And big, because if I go further, and then a lot of pageant, pageantry girls and you know, founder, they probably might, might say something about it. But again, this is my individual me, I don't know, I'm not saying the others knee is I just don't like it anymore. And you know, and then I went back to work. And then my CEO, my manager, my boss, saw me he was saying that now what was what happened with you? Why is no makeup? What happened? And I explained it to him, he was like, come on, you're one of the top lady in the bank, and you need to at least look presentable, and put some makeup on. So that's why now when I go and back to Burma, then I will do some tattoo my eyebrows or, or something that that I don't have to put it in, you know, daily. So they put the lipstick on and just go to work and not like before any more before I have to, you know, put a makeup foundation, whatever, whatever. Now, I just go for my fair, fair face. So again, like I say, and I'm really surprised that I changed like that, you know, I'm really surprised. My husband's very surprised for that, too.
Host 52:16
So for you basically at the end of the day, would it be fair to say these two things were not compatible that the career that you were on as model and beauty pageant contestant, and when you started really seriously undergoing a meditative experience and sitting for long hours and contemplating death and dissolution of the body and mind that the deeper you went into that you were not able to keep up the your your former career is that right?
Valerie 52:44
Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's not compatible at all. No.
Host 52:49
That's interesting. So you didn't have a moment where you were simultaneously going through your career as a model while also starting to meditate it was really once you started to meditate you had to pull away entirely from from your your past career. I
Valerie 53:01
just pull away of everything I just pulled away of everything. And the only problem is what happened is is really strange Jonah when I when I see a person right, I wasn't judged the people invited me to become a judge in one of the well known pageant United States. And I was a judge for that pageant. And I went there and and you know what happened when I see I see all those girls on the stage I saw them as the as the boom, I see them as there was a whole the skeleton skeleton skeleton. Yeah, so I see, I see everybody as a skeleton. I couldn't see them as a, as a beauty as a beautiful curves, lady, I see every one as a skeleton, that's what I'm seeing.
Host 53:47
So that was really a profound shock.
Valerie 53:49
Right? Right. So you know, even though even though like I came by and you know, trying to help my husband, or you know, trying to have a little bit intimate with my husband, I don't feel anything. And I when I looked at him, I seen myself as a skeleton too. And I look at my cat, who I adore so much I love so much. I looked at him he's a skeleton
Host 54:13
did this was this just kind of a an initial shock upon finishing the course and trying to adjust back to real life or did this persist in the months and years beyond that?
Valerie 54:25
It just it just basically, you know, still I'm still happening. It's still happening. I mean, you know, of course, you know, my friends told me I told my friends they don't believe it. And then they they actually took me to strip club man strip club. And the same thing. I see them as a skeleton to I told him that I don't feel anything. And then look at this. You know, he's so handsome. Look at him. And I looked at him. My desire My feeling is technically shade away. It's still there. No mistake is still there. Okay, I still have love I'd still hate it. I still have this but everything just like, shade away, because when I feel about love or when I feel about once, you know, the BBB, you know, the tea, you know, the NOC, the DT, the mindfulness, you know, you're just kicked in, your mindfulness kicked in, like the same thing is going to this revolution, right? I really, I really do not like what the military dictators doing military coup doing. But when I started to hit them, and then my mind when I just like, put the notes on it. It just really, really, I will say, it's very good to experience that I experienced this. Yeah.
Host 55:38
So how has that transition been back to the world because you're, you're not a nun, you're not living remotely away in a cave, or in a monastery or a nunnery or meditation center. You're, you're a married layperson in the world, living in the United States, where one is, one has certain relationships with, with family, with partner with livelihood. And, and as you have these kinds of responsibilities and relationships that you're navigating through, you have this profound reflection upon death and the skeleton, the skeleton makeup of the body, that you can't shake. And that you're and I've heard this from other meditators, as well, I have heard this kind of experience of people going so deep into this, that when they come out, they're still seeing other people in other humans, not in this kind of general concept of of what personhood means. But they're seeing the breakdown of the different components of the body as they're taught to the Buddha's teachings. And, and this can kind of be a shock, but this has been years now since you've had the course. So I understand this was the initial shock that came out of the course that you were still carrying this practice and seeing things in this way. But over the course of years, as you transition back and integrate it back, how has that been? Is that have you found a way to kind of marry the the necessity of living as a layperson in this world with what the practice brought you? Or has it still Are you still kind of living through a challenge of trying to figure out how you're taking this Dhamma wisdom and this insight into the human condition into living as a full fledged layperson where, you know, let's be frank like, we have to live in concepts if you're if you're not a renunciate living in the forest are in the cave, you you do have to live among some kind of generalized truth or conceptual truth that is not the same as truth at the depth level of wisdom. Because you can't live like that in the real world. You'd be a crazy person if if you weren't accepting some kind of generalized conceptualized reality that we all have to accept and live through and so how has that transition been as you've gone along?
Valerie 57:50
You know what I totally agree with you on I totally understand your questions and you know, being honest with you before it's you know, like I used to be very mature a material related person right. must be having a harness that mostly hurt having a lv bat right I have to wear this designer clothes and designer these don't Don't tell me that I don't want it I still have this one. I still like it. But the problem is when I have those once in my body coming in you know my mind oh, I want this now. My phone that just came I stopped it Yeah, so basically, you know, of course when I see when I consider what are we gonna or not the spring I want to have the spring how much is oh, you know what, I can afford it when I'm good and then my mind will just kick in it you know, I mean, it just just this Oh, and then I'll be like, oh, you know what, it's okay when am I going to wear it you know one time once and later on I just spend my money and I rather donate the money out and then why am I doing this and those kind of things you know, and am I really adjusting to that I'm really short on myself to become like this. I mean my husband always say you know before or you never save your money we're about retirement you know worry about this worry about that. And you know and this is how I how much I spend money I mean Host honest with you, but now everything I want you know I have this kind of thoughts you know I mean in my selfishness is gone to is not fully gone but you know, my mind for everything what I'm about to happen let's say for example, I'm going to lie right let's I'm gonna lie one person, my mindfulness just kicked in say, is it going to hurt that person? Or is it benefit me or benefit him or benefit both? Why am I lying? It's not it's not good stop it and then I just shut my mouth is like that. So So I like I said I changed I noticed my myself changing a lot. And I'm more of a more I'm seeing myself more not doing a breaking the five precepts anymore, like you know lying or drink. I don't even drink anymore. Because I mean, because when you drink it will want link to another, you know, it will it will you know, you can lie or you will do some, you will basically do break into a lot of precepts. That's the reason why I don't even drink anymore. I'm afraid of doing doing the wrong thing.
Host 1:00:12
Right? Right, and how has your How is your husband been able to adapt to this new version of yourself, your husband, as you mentioned, also converted to Buddhism reads the Abbe Dhamma. So, you know, you referenced how he was quite excited to hear about your actual lived experiences through the meditation was mirroring what he was learning about in abdominus. So there's a lot of correlation there. And yet, at the same time, you're coming back so profoundly changed and affected by this death contemplation in the meditation course? What effect does that then have on your relationship as married partners?
Valerie 1:00:49
You know, obviously, I just will say, want to thank you, too, thanks to my husband, because he's very understanding. And he read, he read a bit of MMA. So he understands what what I have been going through. And you know, he's actually really encouraging me. And the first time when I went back to Burma, meditation, and a lot of people thought, and, you know, thinks that oh, yeah, I have my second husband, Burma, or whatever the people are saying, but, and, and I, I brought my husband to the monastery and induced to my teacher, meditation teacher, and my meditation teacher and CRP, it was approved for him to go, goes, go look at the meditator, you know, what they have in the meditations going on. So he's not a lot of people meditate up there. And I told him that your wife used to be one of them, I show it to him. So he totally understand. And then he started the he wants to meditate, we actually start meditating every single night since 2018. I went every day and trips, I wanted to focus on nirvana. So he started to doing that, too.
Host 1:01:54
Yeah. So you're able to share in that, yeah, I
Valerie 1:01:57
you know, what, I am very fortunate that I, my husband and I, we talk about meditation. And you know, what happens to me now? And so he totally understand, you know, he said that he understand that. And so, and he himself is believing meditations, too. So I was very fortunate that one of our, one of the teachers from online CRO pIace, is coming to United States on August 3, and he's having a meditation session on August 6, and my husband and I will go, and I believe that if we stay longer here that I can ask him to personally guides my husband and integrated deeper meditations on that. Yeah.
Host 1:02:41
Right, you're in, you're also a person of some standing, especially in Myanmar, just your your career in the beauty industry, and in modeling and whatnot. So you have your own branding, so to speak, you have your own audience and followers. And you had been interested in Buddhism before this course. But this course in 2018 was on say it I really, so dramatically impacted and transformed you and it sounds like made you end your career in that industry, then in there and not being able to go back to it. So among your peers and your audience and your followers, who would then with you to this point was there, what was their reaction to this sudden transformation.
Valerie 1:03:21
And most of them got shocked, I will say, I will say, my, I wouldn't say my father or my first I look at them also other all my friends. They all my friends, so they all got shocked. And in the ones that my meditation teacher actually released my interviews to the public, because my meditation teacher interviewed me and personally and asked me about my meditation experience. So once that video was released, and everybody was shocked that I will I won't be going through that route. Yeah.
Host 1:03:58
Right. And after that period of shock was what said hint, was it like, judgment or ridicule or respect? Or people kind of changing with you or what? How did that because you're not just making these changes yourself. You're you're as mentioned you're you're you're larger than just being an individual at this point with the following that you've amassed with with your career. So what once that shock set in what what happened next, did you gain new followers? Or did they did they make that journey with you? Or how did what happened there?
Valerie 1:04:29
I was the, the, my Burmese friends. They're the okay to accepting me. But my friends in another nationalities such from different countries. They, they were just like, Oh, don't do that. Yeah, you know, you you still are young and why are you doing this and, and, you know, but if I'm going to try to explain it to them, they're not going to understand right because I see you can die any minutes and seconds, but they don't see that it's Oh, you're young you Shouldn't have fun. Why did you go into the route? And sometimes when I see them at the events or, or and they just come by and say leave, I just thought that, you know, you are you're into meditation now you're young, have fun, have some dream, you know, just go out this and I say, okay, but I really want to explain it to them. And but, you know? Yeah, I tried a couple of them to explain to them but they just oh yeah, oh this good and then they don't follow me but Burmese friends are very good because when I told them about it and then and they just immediately go into the business Oh yeah, we want to go into that we want to study that we want to participate in the meditations, we want to do this alone, my Burmese friends are trying to get into the meditations retreat. And after after the video was out, and my international friends are very hesitant Speaker This is I'm too young for doing those. And I asked one of them. So what age should you put when you're 67 you just go for meditation, but you're young, you're only 40, the only 50s Don't do that. But you can die any seconds.
Host 1:06:04
Right? I think you know where this conversation is leading it's so interesting is that it's really showing a dynamic and a difference between the world of concepts and of generalized reality of how things seem to appear. And then the deeper reality within one's mind and body as you go to explore more. And then there's obviously I think, for all of us that are on that path, that it is hard, it is painful to try to realize where this deeper reality and truth fit into our lived reality of family and job and identity and, and even wants and desires and everything else. And where this conversation is going is the military coup in Myanmar. And this is something I've been really interested in, in this convergence between Buddhist practice and even Buddhism as a more generalized religious concept. And the actual lived reality of a military coup which is stripped away democracy and human rights. And there are so many different viewpoints on this on where these two come together on one side, you can look at something like engaged Buddhism, or you look at the, the practice of meditation, not just being something that is, is on the mat and within silence and within one's own mind. But it's something that these are these are tools or insights that that are bringing about greater compassion and wisdom, which can then go out in the world. And can these values of engaged Buddhism can be on display in the way that we're making greater societal change. Another version of this is spiritual bypass where that's the phenomenon of people that are actually avoiding the world and avoiding having to interact with the messiness and the difficulty of worldly concepts and, and engaging and moving through the world and just saying, Well, I'm just gonna do my practice. And everything will be resolved by my own private practice sitting on the mat, and all the meta, all the wisdom, all the insight that I have, I don't need to actually engage or change anything in the world or advocate for others, I just can, can only meditate and that's enough. And that's, that's one other version of this. And people that are not so familiar with Buddhism from the outside, especially Westerners not really having a proper understanding of what's happening in Myanmar, and being under the delusion that oh, well, these are just different forms of Buddhist government. And whether it's a military dictatorship, or whether it's a democracy, everyone's Buddhist, this is not really our concern. It's not really the concern of monastics or meditators. This is kind of let, let let under Caesar what a Caesar and with what is the religion and the Dhamma let's keep that here. These are two different spheres. And also through that kind of mindset, justifying the kind of inaction or, or disinterest in what the worldly is. So there's, these are just a few lines of thinking I'm laying out I could probably talk for another 2030 minutes on all the different versions I've seen of where the spiritual and in this case, not just the spiritual, but specifically the the Dhamma, the, the Buddhist meditative experience, where that convergent where that can converge and diverge with the brutal reality of a an evil military dictatorship at terror state where those two come together or don't and this is not something that I exclusively have the authority or the answer. This is something I'm still working through and still trying to understand and hear different opinions and reflect on my own. I think there's, there's no real easy answer for this. It's an incredibly difficult position to have to wade through and navigate ate and tried to understand, I think. And I think many people are doing it in different ways. And so I'm wondering what this has been for you as someone who who is Burmese living and with family in Myanmar. So you're certainly not ignorant of what's going on there, how bad it is the kind of deprivation and oppression that people are living under. And yet at the same time, having access to these deeper truths and meditation, in the past year and a half, how have you come to understand where the spiritual and the worldly, are able to converge and where they're distinct? In the terrible test example of this military coup and the resistance playing out in Myanmar?
Valerie 1:10:43
You know, what I just wanted to say is that with the revolutions, with the, with the revolutions, and religious kind of mixed together, this is what I want to say. And then the other thing is that as for me, I don't know about others, right. As for me, I have a courage after I finished meditation after fish, meditation, I mean, I have the courage to state about what the truth is. You know, I'm not afraid to say the truth. Okay, I can I just work and speak up now. If you ask me, Do I really hate military agitators? I have no hate. I don't hate them. But I disagree with what they're doing. I disagree with what they're doing. Because I mean, look at the country now. A lot of people are suffering. And look at the country now. Economy is dropping, like what negative t now, the World Bank just recently announced that Burma is the poorest country in Southeast Asia. And Burma as already, it is because military detainer has been ruling the country for 60 over 60 years. And look at that it's going to be you know, we are 20 years behind with the world to try to catch up with the world. And now it's gonna be another 20 years behind. Right. So if I don't speak up, even though I'm living in the United States, you know, why don't have to be afraid of it, you know, speak up is my responsibility. Again, I want to say I'm not a reader yet. I'm not an EMS. I'm not the RFA yet, right. You know, do I still have love? I do, do I still hate I do. But the problem is, everything was just like, slightly gone. And you know, I have no passion. But you know, what, it's give me courage to talk about it, give me a courage to speak up about it. You know, I just want to say that if you think that if you think that you know, that the you are the religious person you are meditating, you know, you don't want to get into this revolution or you want and you do not want to get involved this political, because all political is very difficult to understand, you know, it's not my business. If you still focus on that. Let me ask you, those people, those questions that, how can you meditate? You know, I mean, every 24 hours you're doing is actually related to politics. And don't tell me that it doesn't relate to politics, it is related to politics. Believe me, Host, I tried to meditate when it's COVID had to Burma in 2020. Right. And when that coup to over 2021, I tried to meditate, guess what, my mind is still there. If you're not reaching to the, you know, if you're not understand or if you don't, you know, if you're not in, you know, one of those four stages of the, you know, of one of those four stages, you know, I mean, the last usage is called data, and again, or your handout, if you're not reaching those level, you still have this kind of feelings. But the problem is, your mind is going really fast, like faster than what the seconds are going when the fester and whatever it is out there. But how could you go meditate, saying that? Oh, yeah, everything surrounding happened to you is cannot be related. Everything's related. Right? Revolution is related to meditations to, you know, if your community or you know, a lot of things going out there, how are you going to eat, you're going to be feeling safe. You're not feeling safe? Are you going to be able to peaceful eating dinner at night or peacefully enjoying the family time? No, because you have to worry about what's going to be bombing, you know, if the people are going to rock my home, or are you going to be peacefully sleeping? No, I'm going to be peacefully praying. I even saw one of the posts at that time saying that the lady was actually praying to homemaking, the Buddha statue. And then there is a military soldier just like shooting in the street. And then she just started cursing, but she's just a five priests up in front of the Buddha's right. But she just stopped cursing. So think about it. You think that everything is not related to this, this this revolution actually is related, you know, every little 24 hours that you're doing is related to the politics, politics, political and, and revenue. mission right now. So this one I see. So the reason that gave me courage is that you know, you if you ask me do I do I hate to taters? I don't hate? I don't know him? And why should I hate him? But I'm not afraid to speak out against them? Because I'm not. The reason that I'm not afraid is that I'm not lying. I'm not trying to get attention. I'm not trying to there's no personal attacks or personal hate attached to what them the reason I'm speaking out about this, the reason is, I have the courage to say it's because the truth, I'm not afraid to speak out the truth.
Host 1:15:38
And so how have you been advocating? What have you been doing here from the US in the last year and a half since the coup broke to be able to support the democracy movement?
Valerie 1:15:47
Okay, so basically, so I have been doing a lot of community and become one is one of the community leader in various various programs agree, we have boards in the, throughout the Bay area here, and I, you know, I was appointed as a Education Commissioner for states, and I sit on various boards. And so, you know, I have those connections. I mean, all the all of those leaders are my mentors. You know, I mean, I, when I, when I went to the conference, or leader conference, or Congress conference, any any political conference, and I met, I talked a lot of people, I met a lot of politicians, and, you know, I, you know, they actually put me under the wings to teach me, and, you know, and how to make better and how to make become a community leader and stuff like that. So, and I have those conditions for a long time ago, and when the military could start to take over, and you know, I was a little hesitant to go talk about it, and go speak up about it. Why, because I'm afraid that people might, people might think I'm thinking in a different way about me. And the first thing, and I'm free to go out, and I want, I attended a lot of rallies and protest and protesting group and stuff like that, throughout the barriers, and I look at that, and I just basically standing behind and one day, I believe it's around February, I think it's February 13 12, or 13, around that time, and I one of my friends, my I will say my high school friends now is the ambassador's of the one of the country and they got served to the United Nations. So her and I will always keep in touch though, she actually told me that one of the letter that they received from the military dictators, is totally different than what's happening in the country. So at that time, I just started to talk about it. And I say, You know what, I have to speak up about it after talking about it, if I don't speak up about it, if I, I know the truth, why am I not saying the truth? Why? And why do I have to afraid of it. Because if I can save one person in a different way, I will say I'll save the country, this is my job as a person, this is my job as a national nationality. You know, I don't look at myself as an American, I look at myself as a Burmese American my roots in Burma. So I need to talk about as I talk about it, and then on February 16, and one of the, one of the generals actually call me to United States, for some, he got my phone number. And so we talk almost about an hour and a half, and, you know, doesn't go anywhere. And, of course, you know, a usual they just threaten you and this and that. And, you know, we're fine, you know, if you because, you know, I'm just going to talk about it because you guys are keep lying, because you shouldn't be lying. So what I did was I tried to start to work from the community, base level and cities, counties. So I was very fortunate that the, my good friend, who is a board of supervisors, board presidents in San Mateo County, and he basically totally supportive our communities for more than 20 plus years. And we were together and we were able to pass the resolutions to, to condemning the military dictators, haste, you know, he says that, you know, that's not going to do anything for the military dictators, they're not going to do care. But we support the Burmese people with some of the Burmese community in the United States, within my community within my county, and I would like to do that. So when the other counties hear about it, they said, you know, what, we support it state, they support it. So that was able to pass a resolution was not even passed in the County, the county of San Mateo was actually agreed by all the boards of supervisors in the seven county throughout the Bay Areas. And that was good. And then, you know, and I was on one of the, you know, of course, I have a lot of mentors are politicians in the US Congress's so and I've been communicating with them and whatever they want to know. They will, they will call me they will ask me and then whenever I hear the news, and I will send it to all those my friends because we have the little group that we chat a lot. So I send that to them. And they're surprisingly the same time they got the news faster than I do. And so I'm really focused on it so they find you help the best they can for the Burma of country. Trey and I was serving on the board one day. And then it was a woman History Month of last year. And the the Vice President's Harris poster came out and gave a speech on that day the vice president actually went to the United Nation gave his speech to the President himself came over on the Zoom. And we talked about it. So I was able to discuss with them about what's going on in Burma. So the Presidents Biden was very simple about it, and the he actually said that, you know, this is the internal affair, you know, if, with my only my one, only one word that I can do anything for your country I have did a long time ago, this is not easy. He explained that he actually has sympathy towards all those people in Burma, and also in countries too, because he even know the news that one of the kids, you know, who was like, what, seven or eight years old, got shot by military dictators. People I will say to be fancy as the military's and he said, You know, that's around my granddaughter age. And he was very sympathetic towards about it. And he knows about it. The fifth difficulty is the internet of fear is hard for the United States United States to jump into and help them but the Congress's and everybody was trying not to, to, to talk about the material at others what's going to be happening, they're trying to I was really surprised and amazed about the the Intelligence Committee and CIA committee was able to give a protections to our national unity government, international ministers in the, the doors American here, they actually give for the security of that. So I mean, that's, that's a good thing. So that coming towards, you know, but they don't really admit that wall with energy, but it's saying that they accept the N ug, right. So we'll just basically pretend about safety, and we'll need to talk to them, especially from that, from the the Senate, you know, Senator McConnell, as you know, it met with her, you know, there's a bunch of Congresses that talk to her so that's actually good news that but we have to think about it that Burma dictatorship is not happening in like 2021 or, you know, 2007 it happens since 1960s 62. Right? So, two out from the 70 years and I grew up I was born and raised at the Soviet in a socialist country. So I I was in Burma when this ADA revolution happened my drop in the pit Host I probably be dead by now. Because I was I was in the protesting group on the on the on the Annihilator Romea by the Ministry on this way right? I was there when they shot when they use a machine gun and shot in the pit and I was still in the pit with a bunch of blue people and Heidi in there and I see the soldier was wounded I rest scars on their leg and I was peeking and you know I dropped in the pit otherwise Joe and one of them in there too I'm already dead by now. After five six hours later we came out my the whole body was covered with blood I you know I experienced it so and I know. So and then of course I mean this is 2021 revolution we must win otherwise my otherwise my country or Burma country is I don't know what to say anymore. We must win and we because now a lot of kids are fighting a guess for their rights and democracy and freedom when you talk about the religions in that is totally different now. Right because religion is trying to look for peace. Right? But here you're trying to go fight against military dictators you want to mix together it doesn't get a lot but but think about it if you're trying to focus on meditation if you tried to do in the good deeds, but look at the what happened in the country. I just supposed to help those poor people. Or I tried to start to share with the people that Oh, you're you're living a peaceful life. Is the person's really peaceful? I don't I don't know. I mean, for me with my experience I tried to meditate every single night for 2020 21 I couldn't I couldn't do it because my mind just scattered around. I usually when I go meditate after after about 15 to 30 minutes my body becomes solid fine. I can move them I just got done now. I can't because my mind just like movie movie everywhere. Oh my God, what's going to be happening now? Oh my god, people how many people die now, I heard this is going to be happening. And do you think will you be able to peacefully meditate? I don't think so.
Host 1:24:46
Right. So you bring up an interesting point where you're I mean, you you have a personal and institutional history in Myanmar the 62 takeover by a when the socialist country you grew up in a Not only living through ATA, but actually being on the street, I mean, being literally covered in blood and hearing gunshots from the terrible, terrible atrocities that were committed then and then, you know, you, you, you were very fortunate and the modeling career you're able to have and getting to safety and some kind of privilege in the US and then undertaking meditation where it's totally transform your life and set you on this new path for the past few years. And you bring up the real seeming contradiction of trying to live this more rarefied spiritual life of following precepts and having less attachment and renouncing more from the world and withdrawing from liking and disliking and even normative relationships and, and on this path, while at the same time the country's history that you know, so well, and that you're a part of is, is coming to the surface. And as we saw in the early stages of the protests, the activist really tried to push the nonviolent possibilities as far as they could in terms of offering you know, the when they were having those protests going, the police who came offering the flowers and food and water to them and, and just in so many ways, really trying to have some kind of non violent resolution to this. And that was simply not possible. I mean, this is you know, as much as anyone this military regime, this is a terrorist organization, this is a mafia, exploitive organization that is
Valerie 1:26:35
worse than the mafia, obviously the fussiest
Host 1:26:39
fascist, right? Absolutely. This is a fascist organization. Absolutely, you're correct in that. And so having any kind of nonviolent civil disobedience or dialogues, of course, even outside the country, they were calling for from the earliest days, they were pleading calling for support from the UN, from ACN, from Western countries, from other types of organizations, RTP, all these different things they were pleading for, and every single one of them was rejected. I mean, the most they ever got was just deep concerns about the situation as it was developing. And so they have no support coming from outside, we they do everything they can to try to engage with this military that is illegally taken over power, and everything is not just rejected, but rejected with horrifying violence. And that then leads to the formation of these armed resistance groups, the PDFs, and a greater escalation of violence throughout the country. And so how do you as not just a Buddhist but as, as, as a meditator, as someone that has seen the deeper truths and is trying to follow this deeply ethical and rarefied path, even at the expense and sacrifice of your own livelihood and your place in the world, that you've you're trying to walk on this path, and yet at the same time you see in in the world and the actual, messy conceptualize generalized reality that we've been talking about that very likely the only thing that is going to uproot, this is, in your words, fascist leaders that have have taken over and are causing terror on a daily basis to everyone. The only language perhaps they understand is violence, unless there's, there's there's something else that, that I can't think of that that hasn't been tried, that is yet to be, it seems like everything has been tried, and it hasn't succeeded. And so the protests, the Democratic protesters have turned to some degree. There's many different pathways to the resistance movement, but one of those is armed resistance and speaking back with violence, and so how do you as a Buddhist, as a meditator as a Burmese? How do you reconcile this? How do you understand the role that armed resistance has played there? And and knowing how evil and entrenched this military is? And where do you stand on this? How do you make sense of this? And where do you come around and trying to think about what you should advocate what you should support? What is the reality and what what perhaps, is, is something that lasts, just take that question again. How do you going forward? How do you make sense of what the resistance movement should be doing? Nor to be successful? And balancing that with your understanding as someone who's trying to really live as a meditator on a refined spiritual path?
Valerie 1:29:44
Being being honest with you, let me let me ask you the question isn't a meditation is to to find about the truth. Right? Sure. Right. So what is the truth happened in my country with the regarding with the revolutions? The truth is basically we have to this Since the truth is happening right now because military the fashion military dictator is actually trying to control the country and try to to create a the miserable input environmental live in the country Am I correct? Because I mean, look they're not I mean the people people in the country I mean there's nothing to eat for them. And it talks about do not talk about I mean in our country we don't really have a middle class there is that you're highly rich or you're very poor. Right, the more the more I think what I would say like 75% 80% of the people in the country are poor they're facing poverty the facing poverty so so if you're not really go and talk about and the truth about what's happening in the country, you think you will find the truth in your body I know you'll find the truth you're free to speak the truth right? And you know, of course like I say, I mean religious and revolutions come on mix together but I mean it but when you talk about the the the like let me let me read going back again you know if you don't find the peaceful inner if you if you're looking forward to searching for peace, a peacefulness in your body, but surrounded you is and peaceful Are you going to be able to find peaceful on your body you have to be making use around to be peaceful first to be able for you to find a peaceful in your body right? This is the reason why the DeMorgan or the meditator wants the jungle why? Because it's quiet nothing happens they can find peaceful right? So now if you meditate in the home or if you're if you're in there or in I mean you know let's say three three doors the person living around you just got rocked were you able to be peaceful meditate there you're probably thinking that oh my god who's what when is that person going to come and what's going to be my turn? Right so how are you going to find peaceful you're not you're not right so you we have to do what the right thing what the first thing is you basically leave everything behind don't talk about it let the military dictator to to over it you know oh yeah, do whatever they want. But look at our country for 7060 years what happening now? What's happened look at the look at the people are facing the poverty this is what's all the results that we received from the military dictators controlling the country. Yeah, absolutely. This is the result and we have to know the result. We have to find how do we fix it do not take a meditation that you cannot find the truth in surrounding you or if you know find a peaceful so in and surrounding you will never find a peaceful inside. You will have to if you want to find peaceful inner peaceful, you must need to take care of the outer peaceful first outer environment to become a peaceful situation first for you to find the inner peacefulness otherwise, you're not able to going to be find it out if you tried I mean there's a bunch of people were talking about with this and I told them that explain it to me if you let's say if you try to meditate right now and you just hear the bomb on the on the photocell? Are you gonna be able to sit down peaceful with meditation? I don't think so. So So what is the first thing that we have to do? Right now what is happening? We have no freedom in the country. We must be to fight for our freedom fight when you say fight oh the fight has to be against with meditators on meditation because we must not fight we must love each other we must talk about peace each other to to religion. But you know what you think that's going to be happening with the military dictators Do you think they will listen to you? I don't think so. I agree. We you and I both know a lot of the people in the country know that that the the the the the military at the heart of the military dictator is is has been communicating with the the our leaders, the state counselors ops and the uncensored chiefs for many times about once he wants right Oh, he wants to be a president so he wants to be extended to his you know his roles for humblest how many another like five to 10 years and this and that. But I mean if we let them to do it, our country because you want to talk about fairness. But talk to me about where's the fairness of this? People? People doesn't want you already right. So people are telling the truth that we don't want you on the on the system of the Wheatley election system, right? We don't want you already. But then they afraid but they're the group of people that dictatorship the people who are supportive dictatorship, the group people always think about, oh, yeah, we have to take care of our nationality. We have to take care of other religious or whatever. They're the ones that break through those things. You've heard about you Limbert you you have lived in Burma before you know about the We said about a new governor, right? They're the one that breaking this. They're the one that they were the one that doing this. Right? So if we don't, if we don't tell the truth, if we're not taking care of our surroundings to be peaceful, how could you find the inner peaceful, you are not finding his peace peaceful, because there's no way that you can go to juggle and meditate in a jungle, there's a war opening happening over there. They will do that.
Host 1:35:29
Yeah, so if I'm, if I'm listening between the lines, and I might not be correct in my assumption, so I'm just kind of suggesting this hypothesis. And you can tell me if this captures what what you might be thinking or feeling and correct it. This is just a, just my attempt at trying to hear between what you're saying. It sounds like you're suggesting that the ethics of meditation and the noble life of practicing walking the spiritual path of Buddha's teachings, that at the moment right now, because the country is so on fire, and Myanmar, there is simply not really a rational or practical way that one can stay on that path while also trying to advocate for greater freedom and safety in the country. And so perhaps there needs to be a setting aside or letting go of meditation and Buddhist ethics and some of the other things involved with the spiritual path in order to create a sense of safety and human rights and equity in the country. Temporary, setting aside the some of the the greater spiritual, refined values of that Buddhist meditation teaches us and do whatever it takes to be able to root this military out and create a better country. And then one can pick up that mantle of meditation and practice again, is that is that fair to say? Or how would you this is just my guess it might might I don't want to put any words in your mouth? How would you correct or amend that, that that hypothesis that I suggest from hearing from hearing the last thing that you were saying?
Valerie 1:37:12
Okay, you know, it's some sort of on that question. I agree with you and I disagree with you, it doesn't mean that you have to wait if you want to meditate or anything, you know, I mean, how are you going to find peacefulness? That's why I just want to ask those people a question, right? I mean, all those things are surrounding happening to you, especially in my country. You know, I mean, even though I live in United States, I cannot sit peacefully because I'm constantly worrying about what was happening, you know, about the people of the state safety of the people safety of the country. Right. So, I mean, my question is, you know, the only thing that what I've been doing is I've been basically just basically you know, how to say speak English you know, impermanence got the de Sati Sati so do you mean is that no if you if you try to have the city in you try to have the the mindfulness not not the you don't have to sit there for I mean, you know, this one saying that I don't really agree with you or disagree with you. What about if you if you're in this doing periods and you die, what are you going to do? Right, so the only thing is that you know, you you know, how to say the especially you know how to put the deep the deep in you so that so that you don't do you know, I don't know how to say it in English. Can I say Burmese? Sure. So the DT the DECA tama, the DECA by Yahweh Marvella whatever you're doing anything like 24 daily life you must need to know you have to be aware aware putting awareness where you're going to do putting the awareness awareness aware of this but still have this at least thing that you can even know when I sleep jewel I when I sleep. I don't just go and just lay tight and fall asleep I actually put the awareness and I basically just just go with the Annapurna asleep so basically, am I literally sleeping, I'm not actually I'm just resting. So you know, you have to put the awareness of that, you know when the time you know, harnesses the is very difficult to say, you know, in my well I mean I'd say I can say that I can do that by the people in the country. Like one of my friends my good friends has her house got blown into when they're sleeping inside right. So how are those people who are going to be sleeping and putting the awareness or meditating or whatever putting the in there right I mean even though they're doing that and then there's the sleeping peacefully and the the the house already break into it. You know, it's that's why it's very hard for me to justify and saying that between the religious and revolutions tried to connect it together, there is no way that you can connect it together. The only thing that we can do is no be aware, you wouldn't be we must aware, we must be aware of the surrounding. This is what I say the team was at the end of the day.
Host 1:40:14
I guess what I'm what I'm asking is if you say these things can't go together, then that seems to infer that you have to choose one or the other for the time being is that what you mean that you have to either go with revolution or go with meditation? And you can't really do both? Both at the same time?
Valerie 1:40:29
You know what I'll probably say yes. For the for the time being in the country, the people who stuck in the country are probably was a time being say yes, yeah.
Host 1:40:38
And so I guess to bring that personal, Which one have you chosen?
Valerie 1:40:44
honest with you, I have chosen revolutions. I want to do what the right things for the people. But again, I'm aware of myself what I'm doing. So I have this the D on me, too.
Host 1:40:56
So how is that since you've chosen revolution, and I notice you, you answered with who I would characterize somewhat of a sad or resigned hesitation, which is, is quite understandable for the circumstances. But since you've chosen revolution, what has been been the impact on your meditation practice because before we got on this topic of revolution, you're talking about, you know, how deeply you were affected by the Dhamma by the meditation course that you took, and and how when you got back, it was changing your whole livelihood, your whole sense of relationships, and disengaging you from the world. And so now this terrible thing has happened to Myanmar and as you've just indicated, now you've chosen revolution over the meditation for the time being, but how has that then impacted your your dharma understanding your your meditation practice your the way that this practice is influenced the way you see yourself in the world? What What has that transition of shifting over to revolution brought to that,
Valerie 1:41:59
you know, being honest with you, I have been telling my my friends on the Facebook Live saying that I have been able to meditate straight away and peacefully. Because as you know, right, all the people including myself, I don't know about others, but the but when we in the morning, wake up we have to look at on the Facebook, Facebook feeds or new fees or anything. Oh, how many Mohinga have they served and stuff like that? Right? So do you think that's the fairness? I don't think when you stand on the military people, but when you stand on the religious point, I mean, you're looking for you're trying to enjoy what how many people die? Right? Is it really it's good for you in CO going with a beat them up. But again, a peace of mind is all about the truth. Right? So you must like want to find the truth. So this is the truth. I mean, we want to talk about karma, then this is a karma, like Buddha say was go around with comes around, right? You know, that thing can go to the cycle again. Yeah, I think it's gonna go to cycle if you want to talk about in religious, right? So if I kill you, and you kill me, and except I kill you, you kill me, it's gonna keep going us around it. But again, again, like I want to say it again and be religious and revolutions come and mix together. The reason I choose religion is that because I want you to do the right things. Because if it is this not going, going well. And you know, it's hard for us to do having a meditation going to meditation Burma again. Long call meditation, which is, I have to stay there for a month, if the country is not peaceful, we're not going to have meditations my country that's basically a speck will lose on that, that kind of time, I will lose that, that greatness of, of trying to, to to practicing and peaceful and mindfulness about the truth, right. So if we cannot handle the truth, we're not going to be able to handle we're not going to be to find what the what the actual The truth is. So that's the reason why that I choose the revolutions Yeah, of
Host 1:43:57
course, and not only in the short term, but will not be able to go and spend that time meditating in a peaceful country. But as we've already seen, from experience, the military will just simply continue to pervert Buddhism and reward the kind of nationalist type of sangha that is is rewarding a certain type of monk and and and making another type of meditation practice and more critical thought, less likely so but um, but bringing the discussion to, to this armed resistance is which many would look at as something of an inevitability. I mean, you don't if you're looking at Imperial Japan or North Korea or or Hitler's Germany or so many other of these really terrible fascist totalitarian states throughout history, having trying to have civil discourse and dialogue or even a kind of nonviolent civil disobedience. There's no history of this ever working in in countries like this. And so if if that is the case, Myanmar and there is an inevitability that there needs to be some kind of arm component in order to overthrow this. How do you reconcile that? That what might be a need in the real world for for bringing about violence and loss of life? In order to try to create, to try to root this this evil military out? How do you reconcile that with the much, much more refined truths of Dhamma practice and the higher ethics that one is trying to hold? Do you and hearing what you said before, just one thing that perhaps you inferred and what I might be understanding, and you can amend this. So this is not quite the case, that perhaps, yourself as a meditator, because this is this has to be extraordinarily subjective. This is not anything that can be described as how Buddhists or meditators elsewhere should see it, this is really an extremely individual decision that everyone on every side of this is having to make for themselves and where they come down on it. But for the decision that you're making, are you saying that, for the time being this meditative spiritual path with the associated ethics that are involved with it, the precepts that one is following, that for the time being, for you, this might have to be somewhat set aside and come back to later because the priority needs to be on whatever it takes for the Revolution, when including the arm component? How does that sit with you?
Valerie 1:46:32
So yeah, I can hear you now. So basically, you know what, being honest with you, I mean, this revolution has to stop someday, right? We don't know how long it's going to take is as the stuff I'm doing. So basically, again, for me is I don't know about others, as for me is basically, you know, speaking about the truth was, you know, acknowledged was happening on the both sides. Okay. No, I was I wanted to acknowledge, you know, known about the truth of what's happening on both sides. And speaking about the truth, I think that's really matter for me at this time now, like you say, North Korea, I mean, it's hard to go into North Korea, right there basically, literally country shudder, even though when you go in there, there's a people that behind you and watching you and checking you out. And so Burma, if the military dictators, one, or nothing's gonna prolong, this will be scary. You think that it's safe for us to go back to Burma and meditate? I don't think so. No, no, no, no. Right? And then it's not gonna be. So basically, what are we what do we have to do the right thing is trying to get, you know, but again, for us meditator, we have to know the truth. What's happening in there. And, and trying a lot of people are just Oh, yeah, we I meditate. You know, the phone study. Yeah, we have to talk about the true later on this, oh, my god, nothing's gonna be happening, just go into meditation. But the problem is, you know, the truth is that a lot of people are suffering in the country. I wouldn't say that people say parties are dying. I wouldn't say my PDF, I wouldn't say about military dictators, that, but a general look at the people inside the country. They stuck the face of poverty. I mean, how are you going to help and serve those people that, of course, you can go in there and serve them out, you cannot go in there and just do that I want to do the donation, you can do that. Right. military dictators not going to allow to do that. This is the reason why that one must come first. It's your general knowledge that what you have to do, and you decide that, right? What is the right that I'm not gonna say, oh, yeah, try to go against this or trying to go against that if I say and the other group will be saying, oh, yeah, she's not a real meditator. And she didn't find peace, but the other person say was a different thing. So, again, you and all of the audience decide that what is the right thing for us to do?
Host 1:48:49
And then for yourself, as someone who's supporting the cause for revolution, where do you stand on this question of some of the arm resistance that has developed?
Valerie 1:48:58
I stand neutral? I stand in the middle? You know, for me, is I basically, you know, what have I would have i because I'm the one that just is not watching this. I'm the one but you know, I constantly go on the meetings and stuff like that. So there's a bunch of Burmese in America is doing that to talk into talking with the politics about what's going on in the country. But I don't know about them for me is I can I stay neutral? I just told them what's going on in the country, which should be done is to depend on them that what they have to do right I mean, if you ask me Oh, are you still on one side of the new G PDF? Are you still one agitator? No, I'm neither side I'm actually in the middle. I'm only focusing on the country and for focusing on the people that's it. People in the inside the country.
Host 1:49:47
Right, right. I understand what kind of questions right there are no easy answers. There's no right answers for that. Absolutely.
Valerie 1:49:57
Yes, sir. Yeah, so like I say, I I even told everybody when I'm doing a live or when I'm talking, and I always say that I stand neutral as an expert I am I'm one of the people from Burma and Burmese American, my roots in Burma. There's a reason why that I must vote for the people I mean, we are all in a different form of from We Are the brother and sister from different parents, right? But we grew up by eating the country, country, right the country, the rice that will in the near mass, while Myanmar countries while we're drinking we grew up by drinking them, the waters in your mouth, that's why we all have blood related as a brother and sisters, that we have different parents. So I just want to focus on the people are magnetic.
Host 1:50:43
So do you have an idea or a sense or something you're working towards that you think, is a viable solution for trying to make things better and help the revolution be one.
Valerie 1:50:55
But as my now if you think about and try to make anything better, I don't there's no happy now but everything we can work together, we I will be able to work hard on this after this revolution is finished. Because at that time, and then we'll be able to hopefully, if I just you know, I I am in covenants of believing in that I think this is the last solution that we have, we will have to face this unbelieving in maybe I might be wrong, I don't know, but this is what I believe in I believe into that. So, you know, after this revolution, we have a lot of work to do to to to to help the country and to help the people inside the country to get back on the foot again.
Host 1:51:38
Right right and what do you think it will take for the revolution to be won What what are you working towards to try to create and bring in the beam so that the revolution and be victorious? What do you what is your understanding of like the pathway to success
Valerie 1:51:56
you know, what is basically it you know, now the kids are, are, you know, joining the the people different forces and try to fight back for the countries try to fight back for the country. freedom, the freedom in trading paper for the future, for the fight for the future, the freedom of the future and the freedom of themselves and you know, try to be able to have the freedom of speech back again. So, I mean, those people already have a group that they're doing already for us, it's basically we will try to support those people that who are really inside the country and fighting for us are fighting for the people fighting for the fairness fighting for the truth, you know, we if you can find various ways that you can help out and I really encourage those people to help out either either, you know, either give them encouragement words, either donate the money to them, you know, and try to do in various way the best you can to help those those those people who are fighting for for the the freedom Yeah, but I just really want to thanks you too, for this opportunity and for for allowing me to speak here and speaking with you and I have learned a lot in some of those questions. It's really difficult for me to answer but
Host 1:53:11
they are they are and I acknowledge that there there are no easy answers to this I really respect people who come on and are willing to to discuss this and work these things out. I mean, this is not a not a gotcha show. It's not a it's not trying to set people up because it's it's very much acknowledging from from the start that that these questions have no good answers and yet if we're not the ones talking about them then we're running away from a messy situation speaking
Valerie 1:53:40
all right for our country to end thank you very much for inviting me to your shows Host
Host 1:53:45
I really appreciate it thank you so much for taking the time and I've learned a lot as well it's I think your your personal journey has been a microcosm of bringing together different elements in one person's life that I think is cause for reflection of where we're at now so so thanks for coming on and opening up and sharing all that
Valerie 1:54:03
Sure. Thank you so much
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Host 1:55:12
Thank you for taking the time to listen to this show. I realized that this is an enormously difficult time for many people who love me and more these days, myself included, and a times we might despair that there's anything at all we can do to stop the horrors unfolding there. However, just the mere fact of staying informed is helping to bear continue to witness and keep a focus on this issue when much of the international media has moved on. And the only way that we can do our part in continuing to provide this content is through the support of generous donors, listeners like yourselves. If you found this episode of value, and you'd like to see more shows like it, please consider making a donation to support our efforts, both monthly pledges or one time donations are equally appreciated. Thank you deeply in advance. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military. We welcome your contribution in any form, currency or transfer method. Your donation will go to support a wide range of humanitarian missions, aiding those local communities who need it most. Donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movement CTM families of deceased victims, internally displaced person IDP camps, food for impoverished communities, military defection campaigns, undercover journalists, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies COVID relief and much more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs. You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution for a specific activity or project you would like to support. Perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode. All of this humanitarian aid work is carried out by our nonprofit mission better Burma. Any donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fund. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website better burma.org That's b e t t e r b urma.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause, and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma Additionally, we take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and Cash App simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account you can also visit either the Insight Myanmar better Burma websites for specific links to those respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org If you'd like to give it another way please contact us thank you so much for your kind consideration and support breeze
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