Transcript: Episode #149: Funding a Revolution
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Nandar Min Swe. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:12
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Nandar Min Swe 00:55
Really big issue in my way that are they are they good? Yeah absolutely.
Host 01:36
And I'm here with Nan dar mins way. She has been involved in the massive diaspora fundraising effort from the get go from the very first moments when the coup happened. So we're going to learn a bit about what the diaspora has has been doing to try to fundraise and support the democracy movement through her role and her activities. So Nanda, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us. Sure. Thank you. So I understand that from the earliest days of the coup, when the military took over in February 1 2021, that through your connection with doctors, always so who's also a minister of the MUJI, you were involved in starting to support different fundraising efforts. So can you take us back to those early days, and where your fundraising and networking activity started following the coup?
Nandar Min Swe 02:28
Sure. So what happened was, you know, we were, we means my husband and myself, we were both Medical University of Medicine, one graduate, so whenever we go back to Burma, we kind of go visit the school and get in touch with the teachers. So notice also happened to be the director back then, in 2019. And we got connected he was having a plan to have a global educational activity for the postgraduate students. So that's how we were in touch with him. We were never his students. He was not a teacher to US, per se. But he was the director at that time, and we are the, you know, medical people are here. So we got connected, and we were working with him doing those educational stuff. So when this 2021 February 1 happened, you know, we were feeling like, okay, what can we do to help Burma. So within a week, I think it was on the sixth of February to be exact. That's when doubt, as always, so send us a like as a worldwide Zoom meeting for all the educational people who had been involved with him. And our search network was already there. So we had a Zoom meeting, and he was explaining about how the civil disobedience movement movement has started. And almost all healthcare employees had walked out. So he was telling how, you know, they're still good for February, they can survive, they may be able to survive the whole month of March. But after that, you know, being salaried, they are going to start getting into trouble. So we should be thinking about or getting ready to help them. So that's when we started rounding up. When I started rounding up, I was reaching out only to healthcare people, you know, so physician to physician, nurses, dentists, all the people that I know in my reach. So we started rounding up collecting money and started sending a wire back at that time, you know, we were still able to send through the How should I put it? Illegal route right like so we are giving money here and the people over there are giving our jets and so we were trying to send those money to some collective effort. So that has evolved pretty quickly into when the CRP H is formed. They have formed a little a network organization of almost is all department all sector CDMS so that the CDM network started happening in the city, Mrs. are sending their data information. And the fun collected had been distributed to different people who are more in need. So basically, you know, even in healthcare sector, the doctors and nurses are not the ones to get a penny at all. In the beginning. It's only the supportive health stuff, like, how should I bother people who are in the periphery, right? So but they are from the healthcare department, but they are at the periphery. So the doctors, nurses who can make a living out of their own profession anywhere, they are not being supported at all. So you know, they teared up who needs more who are in a role who have essential role and who started earlier. So they have their own criteria and started doing that, after the crbh comes and ug formation and when in UG formed crbh also made a they call it an RFP official fundraising program. And that was in by the month of April, April of 2021. That RFP program started and they were registering right, like who are the legitimate people who are trustworthy enough to raise funds, and be able to send money back home. So we started registering there and we become the Oh, FB fundraisers. So since then we maintain that status. And until today, we're doing multiple projects under crbh RFP as well. So that's one part. But you know, as the revolution evolved, our roles also evolved. We were started with the CDM supporters, then we become the annuity supporters, then later we will have to hear in their support the local PDFs, and this and that organizations, then later it comes the energy bonds. So we also took the role of an ug bond agents, we sell the bonds, pretty much we collect money from any resources, any reason we can get and we have been sending to where we were instructed to do so. So after the energy bond comes the EOD and of dictatorship, right, so that's the share of Senate selling the, how should I put it the properties or the plots, like the land plots. So those are I mean, not, they're not selling the whole land plots, it's about only the 30% of the payment had to be paid with installments. So those are also involved. And now the newest thing happening right now is called the new GP. So it's like a Bitcoin. It's like a cryptocurrency. But that is used between the UG pay wallet holder, the wallet holder. So that is also the latest thing happening. And I mean, we've been moving from one to another, we've been wearing different hats. The major thing is we're still supporting the revolution to keep going.
Host 08:22
Thank you for that, that's really fascinating. It's really incredible to hear how this all got kicked off. And it also just underscores the role and the importance of the those from the medical profession. We know that with the white coat strike and the early CDM was really, it was really people in the medical field that were kicking it off. That's also why they've received such such undue violence from the military that because of their role in starting those strikes. But hearing from you a physician who's in America and has connections to the medical there in Myanmar, it really just underscores the tremendous role that people in medical field we're playing and starting this democratic revolution. So taking going back to the start of when you connected with doctors always so and when you started your work of figuring out how to fundraise and and how to send the money over and everything. And I'm just curious how from your side, how you went about fundraising you you spoke just now about where the money went to in Myanmar among the different people on CPMs and the people that were involved in striking in different ways. That's on the Myanmar side. But on your side, you have to step into a role of fundraising, very likely huge amounts of money to support this shutdown as resistance to the military regime. So I'm wondering if you had any history or background in fundraising, and as you had to step in to try to raise this money, what did you do? How did you get it? How did you go about trying to raise such Large amounts of money for such an important mission?
Nandar Min Swe 10:03
Thank you. Yeah, that's a very good question. You know, I really don't feel like I had ever done anything organizational. Because, you know, I had never belonged to like any, like, huge organization or anything that involves a lot of people, right, like, so yes. But I always had been a people person that I consider myself. And I don't hesitate, usually to speak in public or, you know, voice what I believe. So I guess that kind of helped. So in the beginning, the funny thing is when I started that collection of money, right, like fundraising, is just that, hey, I'm collecting money to pay out or to support those EDM hours at home. If you trust me, just pay me That's it, there is no receipt, there is no acknowledgement, no, no nothing. And I was just going by that way, I mean, among the people who I knew, and you know, I had befriended already. So that's how it all started. And it was only in the 10s of 1000s only. So 10s of 1000s was through that trust base only, pretty much. Only after that, when we joined that crbh o f p as the official fundraisers, that's when we were backed by the crbh. Right, like, so that's when a little more legitimize or officiated by the N, ug and CRP, H. So that's when we started declaring, like announcing, at the rallies, telling people like, hey, we will be at this and this area, right, from this time to this timeframe. And we will be collecting money. And we will be able to give you acknowledgement from CRP, h, that you donate it this day through us. So that's the next step. So you know, like I said, pretty much, it was only trust base, like they were like, give giving me money, just wherever I want to be supporting. But the second step, starting by April, that's when we were backed by CRP, H, and you know, we were getting the donors, email addresses, and the crbh is sending the thank you notes to them. So that becomes a little more. I mean, you know, they have something to keep keepsake. And they know where the money is going. Yeah.
Host 12:34
Thank you for that. And in terms of who you were fundraising from, to what degree would you say that you were being supported and having success among the diaspora? And to what degree were you able to make an impact among non Burmese foreigners, people, Westerners, or from other any other country? To what degree were people outside the diaspora who are not Burmese? We're also supporting and donating for this?
Nandar Min Swe 12:58
Good question. So you know, so what happened was, like I said that CRP, H, O, F b, right, like whatever we're talking about. It's still all Burmese right? It's all about Myanmar, Birla government. So it's not really politically palatable for the non Burmese just to go say, hey, you know, we're raising money, right? Like, give, give us some money. So that was not a good approach. So what we did we mean, by that time, good that when and myself, we came up with this idea of having a little more wider, again, to reach the non Burmese community number means friends and co workers were like our colleagues. So we did do a I don't want to say a project, I would say it's how should I put it? Well, it was a online virtual race, right? So back in 2021, to 2022, it was still in 21. So the COVID was not lifted yet. The physical races physical marathons or half marathons, you know, those those events were not allowed yet. So we were going on to this online platform to do a virtual race. So it's called a race, but it's more of a like a, like a stepping program. Right. So we had to hire a program to give out a format, and it was done on a global basis. So we were trying to reach out to almost every friends who had spread around the world to promote it and you know, to sign up so they are the participants, they signed up as the resource and they were logging and there are steps every day right like you walked 6000 steps today or 3000 steps today or whatnot. And for those steps, they were calling for their friends and colleagues to be sponsoring them, to donate for them, because they're doing this for Burma. So that was a three month long program. And we called it steps for Myanmar. So as Te p s, with the number four and y en Mar, so steps for Myanmar was done for three months long, from June to September, and it raised about 120k, globally. And that was the most I have received donation from the non Burmese colleagues and friends. Because you know, we were doing similar to what we see here. Like whenever there is a like a doll syndrome being or, you know, breast cancer awareness. Right. So we have a lot of five K's happening here and there. So we were trying to mimic that and that that was the most we raised for from the number MS. Community. Yeah.
Host 16:03
Right, that sounds great. So I think one of the things that's been very educational, for many of us that are concerned about Myanmar, is watching the worldwide support and response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And I think when this invasion happened, I think immediately within weeks, those of us who care about Myanmar, were while we were we were pleased to see the amount of support that was happening for the Ukrainian forces. There was also a little bit of like, hey, what about us like this has been we've been years now asking for even just a small percentage of everything going towards Ukraine. And it's and not seeing it. And I've had a number of conversations with different people about why this is so why, why is there so much more support for and sympathy and financial means for Ukraine than Myanmar, and there's a number of answers to this one can look at the geopolitical nature of it and the threat of Putin and Russia and the proximity, the one can also just simply look at Ukraine and Russia just being a bit closer to the Western mind than than Myanmar, which is, which can be seen as quite exotic and far away and misunderstood. And there's, there's any number of reasons that one can give in looking at why there's there just hasn't been that same level of support and sympathy. But the question I want to ask you is not so much looking at it as the perspective of the outside looking in, but rather the inside looking out. So instead of criticizing, or or finding reasons why the West has not risen up to support Myanmar in the same way of Ukraine, which there are certainly many and it's, you know, every time I walk by a home with a Ukrainian flag, or I go shopping, and I'm told that some percentage will go to the Ukrainian democracy movement, there's always just a little bit of of uncomfortable feeling in me of why why nothing for Myanmar, why consistently? Why nothing for Myanmar. But I don't want to look right now, at that perspective of why the West is not doing more, I want to look instead and ask you instead, at what has the democracy movement for Myanmar, what have they, what more could they have done? Or could they be doing to be helping themselves? So in other words, what can for those forces that are trying to support the democracy movement? What steps are not being taken or that could be taken to find this greater outside support and sympathy? And this question is also coming on the heels of talking to several people on this podcast, who have expressed concerns about how the the diaspora movement as robust and active and amazing really engaged as it is how they're still kind of operating in a bubble, that they could be doing more to influence local media, local legislators to get this, to make this this issue known and cared about more widely. And certainly fundraising as part of that, how more can be done to fundraise outside of this bubble of the Diaspora which has been given so much, I mean, really, you as part of the diaspora has have been carrying the burdens on your back of trying to keep this democratic movement alive and funded. And as wonderful as that is, what can be done so that that burden is more shared. And so that, that these issues of human rights and democracy and overcoming dictatorship that these cannot be seen as Myanmar issues, but as global universal human issues that everyone should care and should be involved with. So from your perspective of someone being involved with with fundraising and getting in and continually trying to get so much support from the diaspora, where do you think that greater steps could be taken maybe should have been taken or can be taken in the future where there could be better and more effective outreach outside the DAT diaspora to getting support as just even even partially of what we've seen from Ukraine. That would start to come greater for Myanmar.
Nandar Min Swe 20:01
Oh, yeah, I cannot agree more than that, you know that this topic has been evolving in our head since 21. Right? So why? Why are we digging deeper into our own pockets, and our own buckets are not that deep enough, no matter how, how much we dig into, right? So we definitely had that, in our minds. It's, it's kind of like multi fold, you know, not even like only two fold, double fold, it's a multi fold model, muddy facades, issue because, you know, number one or Burmese people, they tend to keep things to themselves. It's, it's the brought up, you know, or maybe the nurturing, you're not supposed to voice your problems to other people. That's kind of like they're brought up is right. So you know, inside the houses, they always say that you're not supposed to put your inner wall as an outer wall, right? Meaning that you're not supposed to voice out your problems to other person out of the house. So that type of brought up and you know, people who had been here are stuck with the sensation or sentiment. So they might be crying when they get home. But they put up this happy face and nothing happening type of I don't know, like, let like a, like a mask, right? Like the port on and at work and work situation. school situation. They don't talk about. They don't voice how much Burma is in deep trouble. So that's number one, right? And if they do what happened again, EULA, you said, Burma is so exotic. If people hear from you, and they turn around and they forget about it, it doesn't stick to them, too. So how do we make it impactful? Our issue another thing is we don't have like, like influential or like social media status. People in the US or UK, right, like so those, like in Hollywood, right. Like we don't have access. I mean, Ukraine has Mila Kunis, right? We don't have anyone. So something like that. We don't have anyone close to Burma, Burma to talk about Burma. I mean, you know, we had Michelle Yeoh, who played the lady, but that's about it. You know, she talked about it a little bit. But how? How many times you can go out and talk about because this is not her country? She just played the lady. Right. So something like that. That's one thing. That's like the level of we like yet, like you were saying how much we tried to get there. Right. And again, to get to the news outlets. So whenever we have rallies in LA, I used to try to send emails to all the LE news stations, right. It's like, you know, there's this link hall like report something happening. So we will be sending like this Sunday, we're going to have a Burmese rally in front of Burmese embassy. But I never saw any news events coming out there. So it's kind of I don't know, maybe maybe the do 1017 Rohingya issue was still a big stent on Burma. Or I don't know if we were really exotic and unheard of. Right? We really cannot excite people enough. Like when we did the steps for Myanmar, we got some donation, some contribution from our closest friends and colleagues. And some people who were married do number amis. There are family members chipped in, that's about it. We never get like any philanthropy, you know, big guys, hotshots, talking for us or empathizing with us. So that's, that's where we are. And now that you know, the NDAA has passed for 2022. Right, like there are some hundreds of millions of dollars set aside that we still have to work hard to get it to where it's need to need it to be. Because if we don't do it, they're just going to go through regular channels, right, like maybe the Red Cross, maybe the safe the children. I don't know maybe Doctors Without Borders, some of them but they have to go through official channels and that official channels means going through the capitol in Yangon or our neighborhood or through you know, the nasty guys there under their watch. And I really don't believe so much can reach to all the people who are needing a lot of dire need dire situation So right now we are at this point of like trying to reach to the Senate level to Congress level to have some access without having official lobby. Because you know, we cannot afford the lobbies. So we are trying to do our own writing emails and making phone calls. That's where we are.
Host 25:29
Thanks for that there's really so much in your answer to explore and so much there and thank you for your just your your your honesty and opening up about the the reality of the situation. And not sugarcoating it, just really seeing it for what it is and dealing with it in the form that it's taking. One thing that strikes me and hearing that I'm actually is I hear you talk the echoes of past conversations with previous podcasts, guests are coming back to me, I'm remembering Michael hack speaking to me and discussing how this is someone who has been an advocate for Burma for for years, decades, probably. And he has in that in previous years, he's used his connections with celebrities and actors in Hollywood influencers, business, Mongols, etc. And in the early days of the coup, he was going all around from DC to Hollywood to Silicon Valley, New York everywhere and simply couldn't find any support from any party. And in his telling on the interview it he felt that Aung San su chi and her the way that she was seen to not stand up against the Rohingya genocide, which has since been declared officially a genocide by the legal term. And in many ways seem to support it really left a feeling of betrayal and, and, and bitterness and confusion really from someone that had been that so many high level figures had supported. So with with such force that this had happened, they, you know, these celebrities have a limited, as all of us they have a limited amount of time that they can devote to social issues and understanding and putting themselves behind it. And this, this figure they had this icon they had supported so much falling through just kind of the bottom fell out. And Michael wasn't able to get really any support anywhere. People just didn't want to touch it because of what happened last time. And I think this this also reveals the how broom has always been seen in the West is really in a reductionist simplistic kind of term of black and white, and there hasn't been this greater nuanced to further understand, which perhaps is true of any place in the world. There's only a limited scope of attention people have. But the other thing that comes to mind is a recent interview we did with Filipina wit, who is a governance specialist, and just as you were describing this feeling inside the Burmese home, that you're you're raised and conditioned to want to keep your promise to yourself and not really advertised the difficulties you're going to he spoke of a quote, spirit of sacrifice. And that and this fascinating, really, he felt that on one hand, the spirit of sacrifice was noble, and to be really applauded, and that the entire CDM and then ug and the diaspora, the role of the diaspora, none of this could happen without the spirit of sacrifice, this is really what was propelling it, and how there was this sense that in going back to the NLD, and political prisoners that we need to take the ego out of this entirely and just give whatever we can with without any limits, to be able to overthrow this dictatorship, which is really a very noble thing to to point out. But Phillips concern was that the spirit of sacrifice was creating a vast bureaucracy that didn't have any ability to sustain itself and didn't have any, it was basically a bureaucracy of volunteers. That was as noble as that was, was not trying to build solid governmental structures that would, that would bring them more sustainability and, and greater infrastructure, with this kind of volunteerism. So I wonder just kind of playing off of your answer these a couple of the points I brought up, I wonder how they resonate with you and how much you've also found these things to be of concern or issues you're working with?
Nandar Min Swe 29:18
Oh, yeah. So it's totally true that, you know, we, I mean, all of us, we came into this and still walking this path with a selflessness, right like that, you know, you're you're doing for something greater than yourself. So that type of mentality is the only driving force right now and ever, but the issue is how much it can be sustained. That's, that's the issue because, you know, like, a half of our our volunteers have fallen off. I mean, they don't totally quit it, but they're slowing down big time. Right. So the more Our colleagues slow down, the more left over guys have to big up. Because you know, the we need more momentum right now we need I mean, we need more every day, not less. But the working force is becoming less and less. Because you know people do have lives, right? Like their lives outside. I mean, look at us, right like our lives outside here, we have nothing to worry about. I mean, we're far from bullets. We're far from being snatch at home, right? We're far from being jailed and tortured. But yet again, we are the ones you know, having all this bitterness, and how should I put it, right? We're the ones who are burning, right and still working so hard. But whenever we you, we get to see again, the stupid social media is always there, right? Like our contemporaries in bigger cities of Burma are living a normal life, right? Like they're going to weddings, like they're dressing up, and they're having parties, we're like, what the hell right? What is going on down there, it's like, you guys are still living in the perimeter of a warzone. And we are on the other side of the Earth. So you know, those sentiments, those bitterness, these things don't help for volunteers to keep volunteering. So some volunteers on this side of the world have slowed, started slowing down, or started, you know, quitting or abandoning. So we are having harder and harder time. Doing ongoing of these processes, right, like, so that's why we had to be switching gears the whole time doing different things, dangling different angles. God knows how long I can do to yeah,
Host 32:10
that's, I mean, that's really concerning. And it's, it's nothing new for me to hear. But to put it in, in that kind of blunt terms, that it really calls to attention a kind of shift from not just a practice of the last two years, but a practice over the last several decades of wanting to transition from this culture of sacrifice of self sacrifice, or not to leave it behind completely, because it's very noble and something that that is really the the best of the human spirit. But something that also incorporates sustainability and livelihood and, and having the solid infrastructure and to me, this really speaks of a difference between good ethical values, you know, wonderful, noble values and the way that one lives one one's life and goes about one's duties, and creating a solid and stable and fair and functioning and sustainable government structure. And the they don't the learning experience for me and watching this as one does not necessarily lead to the other, having good these these good, noble values as an individual does not necessarily translate to create in the government in that model. It's kind of the boring, messy unsexy work.
Nandar Min Swe 33:24
There's no satisfaction there. Because, you know, like, you keep driving with the value base only and there is no reward or satisfaction that you get out of it. So that can become very tiring.
Host 33:39
So how do we make that transition?
Nandar Min Swe 33:42
I don't know. I mean, to, to be honest, is like you really have to function like a racehorse, you know, wearing those little blinds on the side so that you don't, you don't get distracted easily and stay focused on the path only type of thing. So you know, like those distractions, those noises to happen do come but you know, you just have to keep focusing on your value base because you know, you started with the this value really, you want to support a bigger cost than yourself. So that selflessness like you were saying, you know, sacrifice or, I mean, I don't want one to even call it a sacrifice because I want to quote dance and suji that this is not sacrifice. No one made me sacrifice anything. I do this right, like this is my choice. So yeah, I mean, I don't need a reward. I don't need a medal for that. You know, and I don't need someone telling Oh, you are doing great, right like I don't need a pat on my back. But I do need to see that rewarding. Achievements right. I do need to see the movements right and I do need to see how larger scale involvement when I start to see other people falling apart, like the question of like, why am I still doing this? Why, like why I do need to do this? And they are not doing this? Right? Yeah.
Host 35:13
Right. And it also, I'm reminded by some of my own experiences the last couple of years, at one point we we did an event in a in a city in the US, and flew in to do this event. And it was a fundraiser, advocacy, presentation, involved food and showing showing some some media, etc. And even though we weren't natives in the city, we worked hard to develop connections at the local university and other progressive groups and networks of people that we knew and get it out in the local media. And when, when the event happened, which was this combination of fundraising and advocacy, I would say it was maybe about 5050 split in terms of Burmese, non Burmese, if anything, it was probably a bit more non Burmese. And, and we had, I had met some of the Diaspora there before, who ran their own fundraisers, they had been running their own fundraisers for years. And when they came to it, they were just absolutely amazed that we were able to bring in so many non Burmese to the cause. And when I talked about the fundraisers, they were doing, which they were doing every several months, and then you know, food fairs and auctions and lucky drawers and everything else. It was they had really not been able to reach out to even a handful of non Burmese who came in. And it was really tragic to me to hear that and to see that. And it was especially tragic when I started to learn about the fundraisers they were doing. I mean, the when we were in town, the fundraisers that they were putting on was, and this was, you know, mind you a year and a half in Burmese women were donating their jewelry to be auctioned off, presumably by other Burmese for with all the funds to go and when they do food fairs. These are these are Burmese who are cooking and buying all the food probably from their own pocket, and then largely other Burmese who are then buying it. And so it's just and as you say, you know, this, the Burmese diaspora is not known for, for being in the elite class in America, despite, you know, perhaps, perhaps some percentage of them. But mostly you're talking about very hard working class families, many immigrants who are escaping terrible situations themselves. And so it's just really tragic. And I don't even know what question to ask. I just felt very when I heard this, I just felt very, very sad and depressed that these groups that were so active and working so hard and so dedicated, that they simply had no clue how to put on an event that would even try to bring in people from outside their community. And so it was really just this and when this happened, I took this as kind of anecdotal, it didn't really register. But then when we had this recent interview with Filipina wit, and he was describing how the entire revolution is really being carried on the ProCon. Now the breaking backs of the Diaspora it put this anecdote in much greater context.
Nandar Min Swe 38:01
Oh, yeah. Big time. So you know, I mean, I don't know if you are aware, you know, like we had this award winning movie called Myanmar diaries. Right. So it was in February, February of 2022. In Warren Berlinale, human rights Movie Award, right, and the win for other awards. So there were several I mean, they were shown in different countries, and they were nominated. Eight other nominations. So eight nominations, and five award winning so right, like so it's a decent amount of I mean, it's, I mean, we can put this as a class of movie, right. But yet again, what happened was, I'm living in Los Angeles here, right? Like, this is a dental town. This is where some Burmese people have some rich to do film festivals or reach into film festivals, right? They did not put any effort into bringing that movie to LA. Can you believe it? I mean, you know, so I, I as a physician had zero clue what the movie industry is, like. I'm the one reaching out to Canada, because, you know, they had the Canada Film Festival, I mean, that Canada was the closest to us, right, like so. When they get to show it there. I reached them out, reach out to them and asking, Hey, how did you guys do it? Right. So they gave me an email address or website to contact? So I did send a question an inquiry since April of 2022. To showcase that movie in LA, but I don't know you know what fell apart or you know, just because I'm an individual not an organization or from from industry asking, they went on answering my calls. So I kept emailing about every couple of months by October of this month. That's when I got connection with them. And finally, I'm going to show that movie next month. So I mean, I you know, they have a by this time they have US distributor assigned already. So you know by I think December mid December is when they signed off to the US distributor, so I don't need to deal with the Australian people anymore. You know, the timezone difference is like not ours. That's crazy, right? So I am talking to these guys. And now I have fixed the facility. I'm going to show it. So I, I mean, I don't know, it's maybe it sounds like, you know, I'm getting frustrated and tired and starting starting to see every other one's fault. Like what are those people doing? What the connections and abilities to do? They don't? They don't care? I don't know. They don't mind. They don't think it's necessary to showcase about Burma. Right? Yeah. I mean, if they don't want to show this much of a political film, they can think about showing the other Myanmar film, I mean, you know, just to keep Myanmar relevant as to Myanmar insight, right. To to be contemporary. Right. So there was this other movie called What happened to the wolf. Right? That was by Nagi, who is in exile right now. And the actress who won, I don't know what awards she won. You got to forgive me. Her name is called Andrew Johnson. And she won an actress award for her role in that movie. And that is like a English fully titled movie. So I mean, it is kind of like a good standardize, right, like able to show get shown to the international crowd. So that that movie was shown at I think, Indiana, or Illinois Film Festival, one of the film festivals, but it never made it to LA. And again, we aren't intense. Oh, Tom and wine. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's what I'm talking about, like Burmese don't know or don't want to stay relevant, or stay, be known and be in the middle.
Host 42:11
Yeah, that's, I mean, I'm just I'm reflecting on our two last two years of activity as well both as a as an organization that is trying to bring advocacy and engagement as well as actual fundraising. And I think that one of the things that we've tried to do, or that I've tried to do, especially through this podcast platform, and through the panels that we're running now, is to try to see the stories and the individuals that are happening in the Myanmar, that can connect with certain kinds of niche crowds around the world. So I think when the coup first happened, I was so overwhelmed by just the violence and the and the devastation that was going on that it was really this feel of like, well, you should care about this, because this is a terrible thing. And society has been turned upside down, and they need their human rights. And very soon I realized that this message was only going so far and only only so effective, and people that have their lives. But I think what I've tried to do is to bring in people from different backgrounds that can connect with communities and causes here so for example, people coming from the world of hip hop or engaged Buddhism or martial arts, like let's weigh or cinema, poetry, LGBT rights, gender equality, feminism, you can go on and on in the list. And if you any of these things that you care about, you know, for example, if you if you care about punk rock, if you like punk rock in the United States, and what punk rock stands for the people that the punk rockers and Myanmar like they are on the front lines of what it means to stand up against injustice and oppression, and using their medium of punk rock to make their statement. So if you care about the the the kind of the anarchy and the free spirit that punk rock gives, like, you should definitely care about what punk rockers are doing in Myanmar. So if maybe you don't want to be involved, or educate yourself on the complex political situation in the history and Myanmar, okay, just walk through the doorway, a punk rock and just care about what the punk rockers are doing. Same thing with LGBT rights. Same thing with feminism, same thing with Lethwei, or with poetry or whatever it is you care about. And so I think what we've tried to do and how we've tried to make those openings and connections and grow an audience that will then care about the wider Myanmar, is to say, Hey, if you care about this one issue, and you're you're fighting for this issue in your country, where you do have a relative degree of safety, that that doesn't exist there, look at how these people are carrying the same issue when the stakes are the highest and when they're literally risking their life to be able to try to stand for this cause and so, you know, just trying to think of those creative out of the box solutions in ways where we're not just repeating the same talking points because one of the things I find is there is this Myanmar bubble. And and that Myanmar bubble is for Burmese diaspora foreign allies like myself expats who spent time there, and I think that there's especially when you're in the Online sphere of like Facebook or Twitter, there's this thing that I've started to call like Tomahawk porn, which is like, the the military does this terrible thing. And then everyone just comments, isn't this terrible? Why isn't the world paying attention, we need intervention, we need support. And it's this this kind of ongoing spiral of arguments that don't go anywhere. And, you know, as important as it is to have a safe space where where Burmese can come together to talk about their pain and their frustration and to sympathize and have solidarity, to actually look at having things done, you need to move outside of that you can keep that it has its purpose, but you need to be able to move outside and to carry their message in a different way. And as terrible as the daily events are going to people in foreign countries and saying, Hey, this happened, it's terrible. And you should pay attention. And here's why you should know, that only goes so far. And so there needs to be these this kind of code switch, you know, in code speak, where you're able to go into other environments and know what the environment is, if you're going into an environment of, you know, urban youths who like, you know, listen to hip hop or skateboard or, or whatever, then, okay, well, then what do you know, for Myanmar, you can bring to them they can connect with and so also if you're talking to meditators or to, you know, to, to whatever other group, and so I think that's, that's at least something that's the way that we've tried to approach it of trying to broaden the audience of people who not just give money, but also care involved or engaged and try to see this as universal issues.
Nandar Min Swe 46:21
Definitely. I mean, it's not only about money and contribution, it's about like, you know, again, my point here is to stay relevant, like, you know, to stay. I don't know, how should I put it up to be still on the trend? Right? Because, you know, even Ukraine is falling off the trend, to be honest, right? Because, you know, us people have very short attention span to begin with, they cannot care less for so long, right? But yet, again, we need to be on the train, we need to at least come back floating. You know, if we cannot stay afloat the whole time, we got to try to float here and there. Right. So I mean, you know, I don't know if it is the right thing to do. But I'm trying again, this is me doing right. Like my own way is like now that I'm going to try to advertise market about this Myanmar diaries being show, what I am doing is I'm asking, you know, my colleagues, the younger nun Burmese colleagues who have like Instagram accounts to put on their Instagrams. Because, you know, I mean, if I put on my Instagram or my Facebook, I mean, my only my bubble sees right likes, and there's my bubble knows everything already. So what's the point of reaching to them over and over and over again, right? What I want is more audience I want is more interest. If we get reached to I don't know, do 1000 people and only like 20 shows up that day, it's still a win, because the dead 20 is interested enough to show up that day.
Host 48:02
Yes, absolutely. And that's those are the kinds of creative out of the box things that we need to think of, especially in light of just how hard it's been able to engage greater support from the masses, as well as from influential people because of just the terrible timing of this, the Rohingya atrocity happening just two years before it's just it's so hard to break through. This just made it all the harder. But I do want to talk about the NDAA and the Burma act passing. Do you see that as opening up or expanding opportunities for engagement of the masses and possible greater fundraising outside the diaspora as well?
Nandar Min Swe 48:40
I find that as a very promising and welcoming for us right, like so the fundraisers so because, you know, we do have a whole load of nonprofit organizations, right there religious organizations here already that can be acting as the actual bridge ways, right. So you know, like I was telling you, the official people, or organizations who are already set establish through Burmese government, or so called government are not the ones that we want to go through, right. So I see this as an opportunity for us like the standalone organizations to be able to bridge in between. So we're not sure if we can channel all that allowances, but we can still manage to if we go through proper channels, we will be able to bridge a whole load of help. And again, that is going to be not just double or triple that will be a gajillion times more than digging into our own eyes for us pockets.
Host 49:50
One of the things that kind of surprised me about the discussion after the Burma act, and I've heard this this ad in various forums over the last couple years is law. Large organizations or heads of agencies or development, nonprofits or whatnot, or diplomatic missions, saying that well, we just don't know how to get the funds in on the ground, we just we don't we were very unclear how we can bypass bypass the tatmadaw. And be able to, to get funds of where they're needed most. And this, I'm not sure about your how involved you are in the funds you get across and the mechanisms you use, but we have a nonprofit as well. And for the funds that we've raised for humanitarian missions, we've identified countless ways, very trusted ways with our networks to be able to get funds and get them on the ground, have the reporting know what's taking place, of course, there could be delays, there could be internet shutdowns, there could be safety precautions. But it always kind of confounds me that such a tremendously small organization is ours that has been so consistently effective at being able to find ways to adequately, adequately get them to the places they need to go and make sure that it really gets there safely and goes to where it needs, that big name people in organizations are, are clueless, and I just don't understand what they're seeing that we're not or vice versa. So have you have you? Is this something that that you've noticed as well or or what
Nandar Min Swe 51:17
totally agree with that, I guess, I mean, I, my conclusion I'm maybe jumping too early is that they want to play safe. You know, so that's their major thing. Because they want to be able to officially, like literally officially be able to roam around go around, right? The whole country. And the military is always having in a way, like this area is out of bounds, this area is not safe for you, right, like, that's why we're not allowing you to go. So that's it, that's the end of it, when they put a little roadblock there saying that this is not safe for you, the people from those big organizations, they don't move any further anymore. But the guys who work for yours or mine organization, they don't go through that official. So call official channels, right, the colder and cold. So that's why those people are still finding a way and getting the work done the job done.
Host 52:20
And there have been some international observers and people in the aid organizations that have made the controversial argument that the huge the need to get humanitarian types of aid in is so urgent, that we this could be something that we work with the military with that we find some way to work with the military regime to be an authorized nonprofit. So we're legal according even though you have an illegal regime that took power in an illegal manner and is incredibly violent and breaking international norms, somehow we're going to be within their definition of legal to be able to work with them and be also so called my hand and air quotes, non political so that we work with them to get the funds where they need to go and just kind of leave aside all this other messy stuff happening. So at least we get funds into some official channel that gets to the people. So what what are your thoughts about this argument?
Nandar Min Swe 53:11
That argument has started since 2001? You know, like says that cool, right? Like the regular vaccination for children under five were disrupted, right. And people with AIDS are not getting their antivirals. So those were, I mean, ugly consequences of all this. And when they had this, like a masa car and torching, I think, Christmas of 2021, right. There were two employees of safe, the children were burned there. So that's when they don't the big officials, big organizations, employees are not daring to venture anymore. And that's why they were thinking or talking more about engaging with the regime to get that official, right. So my point, I mean, that's, again, my personal point of view is I agree with, do whatever you need to do, right? Like even if you need to hug and kiss the villain, to get two people behind the villain to give some helping hand right or feed them a meal. You should be doing it. I totally agree with that. But the issue with current government or current regimen is that even if you make nice with them, it's not guaranteed you will get what you want back from them.
Host 54:40
Right very, very, very well said and true. You have described yourself as a political and yet you're very much involved since the beginning in fundraising, advocacy, doing everything you can to try to get money for especially for things like CDM and CRP H and ug, which are very much opposing In the military takeover So can you explain in in the wider work you're doing with fundraising? In what ways do you see yourself? So I was a political.
Nandar Min Swe 55:08
I mean, the major thing I call myself a political is that I really I mean, you know, I, I adored dos SOG. But I don't how should I put it, I don't see her as the sole leader, because, you know, she always says that people are supposed to prepare themselves and better themselves to become a leader in everyone. Right? So I, I kind of like that idea that you are supposed to be ready to lead whenever you need to, rather than putting her up there as an icon and you know, like, be the puppet show. So that's what I think I am calling myself a political in that sense that I'm not like an NLD supporter, or, you know, like Dong Sensoji supporter, I feel myself to be more like someone who wants to liberate Burma. Any way I can, and the only way I can right now is by fundraising. So I think that's my explanation.
Host 56:16
Right, so we've talked a little bit about the the dichotomy and distinction between the diaspora groups and then trying to break through and emerge into those non Burmese groups and get support and solidarity from them. If we then break down the diaspora, of course, Myanmar is an incredibly diverse country in terms of religion, region, ethnicity, everything else, looking at the diaspora population of Bomar and then of all the different ethnic groups, to what degree has the fundraising and advocacy been unified in some degree of solidarity and going in unison and coming together? And to what degree have is this been splintered off and having the more groups doing this, and seeing groups doing that, and Crenn groups doing this and so on.
Nandar Min Swe 57:00
It's still happening, still happening. I mean, you know, this deep division over what, six, seven decades, right? Like the Obama had been naive and arrogant, off the whole. So that perception is still strongly deep seated with our other ethnics. Right? And I don't blame them. Because, you know, we were as guilty as charged, too, because, you know, when we were teenagers who in our 20s, we did not know what's happening at the borders at the states, right, like current state kitchen state, how much military had been going there and abusing them? Right, left and right, we had no idea. So we had been living in our own bubbles, and we had been happy. And you know, we were just getting by now that we know how Bama military had been doing to them. For decades, and past two years, we feel ashamed about it, to be honest. You know, we were like, Oh my God, right. Like we were such idiots. Like, we do not know what's happening, like the people I'm blaming right now, right, like in Roma cities. Right now, they are boarding and they are having good times when other people's houses were burned down. Right? Yeah. So I mean, we, when I say we, right, like me and setting people that I know, right, I can speak for only people around me, are trying to close that gap as much as we can. So you know, now is the good time, right? It's never too late to correct yourself. When you know, you were not right, you start correcting yourself. So whenever we have any, like ethnic group, organizations, fundraising or activity of any kind, I try to show up, I try to be there, I want to support them. I want them to know that I stand with them. I mean, that is not to have them back. Showing up to anything I do. I don't, you know, expect anything in return. It's more of like, I want to be with them. I want to show them that I like to stand with them. Yeah. So I mean, it's not only me, right? Me and a handful of other people all try to be there. So I kind of feel like we had a good relationship and that sense right now. And I want to keep that relationship going on. I mean, with without without the revolution. Because you know, this is this is the start. This is a good start, and we have to keep going on. So you know, I am grateful that you give me this opportunity to talk about it's kind of like you let me lighten up my chest a little bit today. Oh, thank you so much.
Host 1:00:09
Since the coup better Burma has provided consistent humanitarian aid to vulnerable communities across Myanmar. Over time, however, we have also come to realize that another consequence of the coup is a severely collapsed economy. Trade and Tourism have almost entirely evaporated, and local artists and community suddenly found every opportunity of continuing livelihood closed off to them. To help support those artists and communities. Better Burma now brings items direct from their workshop into your home. These lovely pieces from a far corner of the world will not only light up your room or make a lovely gift for a loved one. But they'll also help dozens of artisans create sustainable businesses and livelihoods. Part of each purchase will also go towards our ongoing nonprofit mission. See these beautiful crafts, visit a local crafts.com That's a loca A L Okay, a crafts C R A F T S one word a local crafts.com. Of course, as is your preference, you can also consider making a donation through our normal channels. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military coup. We welcome your contribution in any form, currency or transfer method. Your donation will go on to support a wide range of humanitarian and media missions, aiding those local communities who need it most. Donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movement CDM families of deceased victims, internally displaced person IDP camps, food for impoverished communities, military defection campaigns, undercover journalists, refugee camps, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies COVID relief and more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs. You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution to a specific activity or project you would like to support, perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode. All of this humanitarian work is carried out by a nonprofit mission that or Burma. Any donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fund. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website better burma.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause and both websites accept credit card. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to these respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org. That's better Burma. One word, spelled b e t t e r b u r m a.org. If you'd like to give it another way, please contact us. We also invite you to check out our range of handicrafts that are sourced from vulnerable artists and communities across Myanmar. Available at a local crafts.com. Any purchase will not only support these artists and communities, but also our nonprofits wider mission. That's a local crafts spelled ALOKCRA FTS one word a local crafts.com Thank you so much for your kind consideration and support
1:03:44
good day whatever Ira Nanga daddy we are done and the reason is that we got busier and busier Olga Yatta, Ananda Jana, Jana, yada yada yada, yada yada