Transcript: Episode #148: Girl, Interrupted
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Melody. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:05
Welcome to the Insight Myanmar podcast. Before we get into today's show, I wanted to let you know that we have a lot more written and video content on our website. If you haven't visited yet, we invite you to take a look at WWW dot insight myanmar.org. In addition to complete information about all of our past podcasts, there's also a variety of blogs, books and videos to check out. And you can sign up for our regular newsletter as well. But for now, enjoy what follows and remember sharing his carry
00:40
on fists and tender for broken hearts and broken homes suffering is invisible to those who cannot see anything beyond capables.
01:17
Kidding me, no way that we're gonna have a good day. Yeah. Maybe that is that.
Melody 01:52
So I think I will start you in 1974, which was my first visit to Burma, as everyone called it in those days. My later to be first husband and I were traveling around the world for about a year until I came down with hepatitis, from some Badwater, probably in Calcutta, and went to a hospital in Malaysia, and then we came back home. But during the second part of that trek, we were up in Nepal, heading back down into India. And we heard about seven days a thesis to get into Burma. And that was the Max was very tightly controlled. So we thought, why not, we'll fly into Rangoon in those days, and then fly on to Calcutta. So when we arrived, and this is mid 70s, things were dark there is far as the country was very, very closed off. in Rangoon, there was a YMCA. So being the backpacking kind of kind of hippies that we were, we decided to stay at the YMCA, we didn't have a lot of cash. But since it's was the men's entity, they got a lot better deal which I maybe should have been enlightened about the differences between rights of men and women, even them. So my husband, later to be my husband had a huge dorm room for the guys. And they had wooden pallets raised off the floor to put sleeping bags on. They had a lot of windows with screens, fans overhead. It was it was pretty good. The women, on the other hand, had a very, very small group, probably a fifth of the size of the men's store and it was just a room with a door in one window. Nothing on the floor. So myself and the other women that soon became very good friends. Up close and personal. We slept on the floor. There was no screen on the window. It was the hot season and the mosquitoes were rampant. And so a lot of us tried to stay under the covers of our sleeping bag so we wouldn't get bitten alive. Others couldn't handle it when we woke up in the morning. Most of the women had extremely swollen faces just completely out there. Mine was bad, but not quite as bad. And that was my first night in Burma was in the YMCA. It didn't get us down, we enjoy the markets looked around the city, very awestruck, and we only had time probably to go to one place, which we would have to fly to. So we went to but gone, and Oh, my Oh, my. I since returned in the early 2000s. But it was a miracle place with the 1000s of pagodas. They have, they're up on the plateau. And the sunrises and the sunsets. And the ability, unlike most monuments in other countries, the ability to you know, climb on the pagodas, sit wherever we wanted meander around them in the open fields, it was it was magical, especially the sunset. And we stayed in a little, little tiny group, which was actually a lot better than the YMCA and had our breakfasts as they're served by older women and their lunches. And on their breaks, they would stand out on the porch and smoke their cigars. And look at us tried to figure out what we were doing, et cetera, et cetera. We were too familiar with the Burmese food. And so we would go for fried rice with a Friday got taught which, you know, a little bit of protein yet to spot. And we were good to go. So it was a mixed, but yet stepping back in time experience for us on our world wide trek. And one that when I look back on it now, I think it was kind of setting the groundwork for me to end up going at least once a year and empowering women and girls there with education. So it was a nice little tie in for me back in 1974.
Host 07:32
Yeah, thanks for sharing those memories. That's probably at a time that you visited. That was before many of our listeners or foreign listeners were able to go probably before the birth dates of birth years of even the Burmese listeners. So really describing a different era there. And I guess the obvious question, especially since you've been back to Myanmar, so you've been able to compare your 1974 memories with memories from 2000 other other years and reflecting and seeing the differences, not just in how things look, but how people act and as the culture evolves. So I'm sure that the amount of differences that happened between that time and your subsequent visits were quite, quite many, probably more than would be able to, to detail in just a simple conversation. But to ask the obvious question, what what comes off the top of your mind in terms of what differences started to manifest from that early memory of the 1974 visit?
Melody 08:34
When we were there in 74. Unfortunately, we weren't very familiar with Burma's history. And who was in control of the country and it was literally last minute decision to go to Burma. And then we were, you know, there wasn't the internet like there is now so we could just Google things and find out more. When we went even then to our access to internet. I did see the YMCA again. When I was in Jaco it still existed but look like it was somewhat of a housing structure then. But I guess I would answer your question that I saw more of a continuum of changes when I from when I started going in 2009 to current so when I first started going, people still wouldn't look you in the eye. They were still afraid of interested in foreigners but afraid to talk to them probably for fear of the secret police that they feel was watching them all the time. So no iContact friendly people for sure. But not like it changed to later. In the 2000s, when everybody had a cell phone, they had to literally learned about the outside world, connected with people, many young people were able to travel for college outside the country. And definitely eager, and were seeking out foreigners to practice their English and talk and learn more about the outside world. When I went to my first group, that would have been in 2009, of young, college educated people in young gone on the outskirts, it was the group that got together, each had an area of interest. That made the group more broad and stronger. So some libraries, some education, some music, some art, just all these different interests that the young people had. And when I met with them one on one with a dear British friend who was translating for me, I was telling them about a video that I had seen recently. And this was through my work with ClearPath international that focused a lot on landmines. And I was telling them that this video had been secretly sent out. And it showed what I've been hearing about that the military would go in to a village and tell them quickly pack up what you have. And then you have to leave. And on this video, I could hear when the military had started burning the village down at some people still had left and they were hurrying hurry to get out because it was already on fire. And then the military would go in and plant landmines in the farmer's fields. Because they didn't want them to return to that area at all. Unfortunately, a lot of people that we dealt with, in our assistance was focused around the landmines. So we would see the people who potentially went back to their crops to mine them accidentally stepped on a landmine last delay. And we were helping to provide prosthetics and teach the people how to build prosthetics out in the middle of nowhere, so that the people who had been injured with the landmines could move around. So I shared this realization with this group of young activists who were considered themselves quite savvy. And the woman who was translating for me, she pulled me aside immediately afterwards. And she said, they don't know about these things. If they might know about these things happening. It's safer for them not to know. And, of course, I felt horrible them that I had shared this information because I didn't want to get any of them in harm's way. But I was also it shipped me how isolated Burma was, yes, we were able to visit there. But these people didn't know what was happening anywhere else in the country. And they didn't have the means whether it be via phone or internet, or probably even very much with mail, to communicate to each other what was happening. And of course, they didn't know anything about the Western world except what they were being told by the military government. And so it's a real eye opener for me to realize where they were in that paradigm shift. And then over the next years, I watched them opening up and learning more and wanting more, and then wham, the coup and the country tried to close but these young people who are pretty much grew up from, let's say 1011. On where they expected more news of the World and involvement. It was amazing to see them all of a sudden come alive and be interested. And then even more heartbreaking to see the route to where they are now trying to take it all away again. So I would say that the opening up and how far it needed to go to create that awareness for people was the biggest change that I've seen over the years. When clear path international provided landmine assistance in Southeast Asian Afghanistan, and by post bureaucrat career became one of International Development, which I was actually eventually paid for, but started out as a volunteer and then got back to volunteering again. But I just lay out so one of our we dealt a lot with the Shan state, because we could go up on the Thai Burma border to Mesa thought and connect with people in Burma more readily. And a lot of organizations in Mesa thought that had people on the ground inside Burma. And the Shan were one of the ethnic groups that we taught to make prosthetics and, and they had a base in Chiang Mai, Thailand. So on one of my trips, towards probably close to 2010, or 11, I went with you to the friend, Sean friend, who wanted to take me up to loi to Lang, which is a displace person camp up on the crest of the mountains in between Thailand, and Burma. So it was quite the adventure even getting there. We were able to drive but it was hard to look sometimes. So we went to Lake loita Lane. And first of all, a lot of the people who'd had their limbs lost or their partners killed, and their villages burned. We're living in places like loyalty Lang. And so we were also teaching them different ways to earn money and at least to feel productive and empowered, like growing mushrooms to sell, or a lot of the animal husbandry, the the pigs, or the chickens and that kind of thing. So food in that case, plus, having piglets selling them getting more pigs and having kind of a pyramid scheme with pigs. But it was there that I had kind of been thinking of leaving clear path. Because landmines and all of that victim assistance I totally believed in, but it was at my heart, my heart is empowering women and girls, and I know how powerful an educated girl or woman is and can't be and how she can improve our world. So I was already kind of leaning towards doing something in a nonprofit, for that purpose. And I remember meeting this one woman who was out for a walk with her little girl in a kind of a makeshift pack on her back. And we kind of tried to talk that language barrier was going very far. That she, she had the this beautiful, beautiful smile. And when I was asking you tip more about this later. He was telling me that yes, these people, they find joy. Yes, their village has been burnt down. Their life has been uprooted. They're in this displaced person camp. Life hasn't been easy. It wasn't easy before and it was even more difficult now, but they were able to see hope. And I believe if you have hope. Just believing in it. You can do anything Eventually, you may have to suffer a lot before you get there, but you can get there. And so when I saw this woman smiling with the little bit that she had, I realized there are the people, I want to help women like her who have hope. And I wouldn't provide education for them. So that was kind of the turning point where I eventually left clear path and started educational empowerment with two other women here in 2012, officially with our 501 C three nonprofit status in the US. But both of those stories about the village and about meeting these people up at Lloyd Lang and hearing more about their stories that were turning points for me to be driven to help. Burma when we set up the nonprofit, we had a lot of discussions do we call it Burma do we call it Myanmar, since we wanted to be able to apply for grants, we wanted not to be dismissive of anybody in the country. We didn't want to put ourselves at risk by calling it Burma when we would be visiting. So we decided to call the country Myanmar. And yet, we also had a lot of State Department funding with ClearPath International and a little bit with educational empowerment, or II aside call it for a short version by the State Department was at recognizing the term so they still refer to the country as Burma. But we decided to do our small scale little nonprofit that we would call it Myanmar. And so now I'm kind of in the middle where I call it both, but I wanted to clarify that.
Host 22:09
Right, so you're describing in both those stories, examples of the tama does for cut strategy, this was a famous, infamous one should say, military strategy where to deprive the ethnic villages of, of survival and sustenance. Basically, they were trying to cut off for things that was funding food, intelligence and recruits and your story about making them leave the village and then planning landmines so that they were not able to plant food. That reminds me of a couple stories I've heard in the last few months, equally devastating, just showing how long this conflict has been going on and how ignored these atrocities continue to be as the world looks away. A friend of mine a friend of mine who joined the PDF was in Kern state. And he just a few days ago, he related a conversation to me about with a local villager, noting that nowhere in the region or in the town where there any, any buildings of any substantial size, and, and even any, any agricultural areas that could feed larger communities. And my friend was quite confused about this. And when he asked the this was one of his intercultural learning experiences of being a Bomar from the cities and Korean countryside. He was told well, the minute we would start to build a bigger house or start to plan a larger field. We could expect later in the year, the military would come to put landmines or poison or burn or something else because this is part of the four cut strategy they don't want us to, to be able to grow or set roots or have stability and so the only way we can survive is everything, just sustenance, just barely having a shelter that's barely enough to be able to live having food that's barely enough to be able to survive and education, whatever else that's just barely enough to stay off the radar and not have it burned down or worse. Another story that that indicates this there is a Dave Eubank of the free Burma Rangers had an incident a few months ago where there was a woman in some village I'm not sure which ethnic region it was. That was she was simply trying to plant the patty, the rice paddy to be able to have a yield in later in the year. And every time she would go somewhere close to the field. There would be there were some Tomodachi snipers that were somewhere in the area. And they would just shoot they would they would shoot anytime someone approached, which was only for the purpose of preventing knowing that they were preventing food from being harvested and grown to feed those communities. So just a single a single paddy they were trying to prevent they were trying to stop from from being planted Add in the really incredible dramatic video of Dave Eubank actually crawling through this, this Patty, under sniper fire to be able to plant just a couple of these the rice to be able to grow and under the sniper fire. And it just, you know, the obviously the I think the the cruelty and the inhumanity of these stories definitely stand out. But I think as you as you look at these stories in greater depth and the some of the deeper rationale behind I think one of the things that starts to come out is not just the the obvious inhumanity or coolness. But actually the cowardice. And this is part and parcel of the time of admission, they don't want to fight battles with someone of equal stature, they they want to be able to pick on the vulnerable people on those that are not easily able to fight back. And so they're they're looking to pick fights that they know they can win just as bullies as as being able to push others around without any kind of obviously no kind of ethical standing with what they do. But you know, this is a professional organized army that is looking to constantly avoid conflict with any kind of equal foe and as looking for vulnerable populations, they can bully and harass and threaten as a means of being able to weaken the more serious enemies that they probably couldn't win against. And so this is why and in the past decades, and still today, we continue to hear about these stories where they're, they're looking for who they can bully and who they can pick on and these kinds of easy pickings. And I'm sure that you've encountered this kind of behavior often throughout your decades in service in Myanmar.
Melody 27:00
Yeah. And I have the utmost respect for the Burma Rangers. They they're just amazing. So I just have to say that I guess, you know, I with the junta, they're also not the smartest people in the world. And they're in such a difficult situation, and also fearful of being caught doing something they shouldn't be doing. Or definitely, you know, deflecting but or defecting, but your point about bullies is excellent that bullies are everywhere. And the fact that Myanmar right now is in a limbo situation where nobody, no other governments are recognizing anybody there. They aren't recognizing the junta and they're recognizing the national unity government. And so with war crimes where they're starting to, and you're helping, I'm sure, collect hard data on a lot of these circumstances. There's nobody to take control because the UN isn't recognizing who's in charge. The United States isn't. And part of, I guess my goal right now, I feel so helpless that I can't go there. I can't do more than I'm doing right now with educational empowerment I, I feel helpless. And so I figure I can help create awareness at least so that Myanmar is not forgotten. And especially the women and girls voices aren't forgotten. And it I decided that's all really that I can do. And so I want to do that. And so I'm very grateful for this opportunity to be interviewed on insight Myanmar hours, podcasts. I wanted to along those lines share a story of a Karenni friend here. And she told her family, they were read Korean or Karate but of Korea and Korean heritage, the husband and wife are mom and dad. And they fled into Thailand to a caretti refugee camp in 1992. Because, again, the villages burned, you know, people were being displaced in the army. shins for being displaced to we're not ones where there was good land for crops at all, was more of a mountainous area with not enough water either. And so the parents went into this Caronia refugee camp. And my friend Elizabeth was born there, in let's see my notes here in 1997. And then they stayed there until 2009, when they were able to immigrate to the US and they live here in Washington state, in the South King County where there's a good sized Burmese community. And so Elizabeth, had some of her childhood there, none inside the country. And then middle school, and on up now to college here. She wrote a poem that she shared with me, and I'm going to read that because now she is looking back at her homeland. And the current state, once again, is being hit extremely hard with violence, and bombing and burning and just like the Qin state. So her poem is called, and she's worried about the heritage. And so her poem is called Imagine, imagine, in the future, how are our Karenni state going to become? Well, we still have our mother's custom in our father's place. Imagine in the future, who will our caretti youth become? Will our language and our literature still exist? Imagine in the future, who will our future generations become? Will Love, Peace and Freedom remain with them? Imagine? So that's the voice of the young refugee here, who's watching the current situation in her country, and fearing that her whole culture will be wiped out. Thus my driven plan for awareness as much as I can, including writing a book.
Host 32:59
Right, and that brings me to the next question, looking from the standpoint of these foreign allies, and definitely count you in that category of being a foreign ally to Myanmar over the years, you've been at this a long time, in one form or another. And you're just seeing the same patterns repeat themselves over and over and the world continuing international organizations, communities, countries continuing to really do not much more than just give the same statements with as the tatmadaw, as you said, is not smart. But they're smart enough to know how to take those same statements and do the same things with them, to keep the lights off in the country and go through the motions as they keep control on power. And as you've been through the same patterns and you've been voicing the same concerns crying out to kind of against the wind in the in the dark without much interest, wider interest from other people that are are looking to be engaged. The same thing is still happening now. I would put other long term allies in that category as well. People like Dave Eubank or Jean Hallisey, edyth Miranda, Alan Clements, or David Mathias, and people that are far they're there, their support and their years as allies far outnumber mine. And they've seen these patterns. They've lived through these patterns in real time, like yourself following year by year, the developments and the same thing keeps happening. I was actually a couple of weeks ago, I had mattina on a podcast, she was a 88 activist, and wrote a book about her experiences. And as I was reading her book, recounting the 1988 social unrest and her involvement at times there were pages where I forgot I was reading about 1988 I thought I was reading something in the news that happened a few weeks ago because the same patterns were there. And so I'm just wondering if you could speak a bit to perhaps your frustration Your if you have any reasoning or if you can explain to me because I certainly don't know why it is that that people just don't care about this particular issue. Is it? Geography? Is it skin color? Is it? Is it proximity? Has Myanmar just been put into a category have a one dimensional story of a broken country? And that's. And so when more problems happen, it just kind of goes in the category of like, oh, yeah, well, that's the place where a lot of there's a lot of harm, a lot of bad things happening. And this is another bad thing. And so it's not quite as shocking when when this is happening to what we would call a stable country, dare I say, a white country? But in any sense. I'm wondering, you're being an ally, and an activist for so many years? What is your feeling? And what is your rationale for why the same patterns keep happening over and over and over again, and there's just simply not the engagement to do something about it against an enemy that's not that strong and not that smart. And yet, they they just keep in control?
Melody 36:08
I guess I think two factors, kind of are ones that I keep getting stuck on. One is the fact that the country was really closed off for at least 50 years. And so you have generations growing up, that only know, one way of life. And they don't know that the West is good. They just hear what they hear, like in Korea. And that's their world. They know they're hungry, they know. There used to be books, and then there were no books again, they I mean, they've they've seen changes, but they don't know, farther. But now, the youth that have lived the last 1215 years of having more awareness, have a mute probably are already aware of this, but they have joined networks in other countries, they've learned how to communicate quickly how to mobilize. And I truly believe that the civil disobedience movement today was launched so readily, and so smartly, because of these young people who already have the tools in their heads, and the connections to be able to put this together and, and to as part of that communicate without being caught too much within the country. So how to get around the Hooters laws and walls and as safely as possible, but they're also willing to give their lives for moving forward. And then I see the geography. I do think, surrounded by big countries. And speaking as an American, I'm always amazed to hear how few Americans have traveled outside the US. Not everybody here cares about the rest of the world. They just there's things in the news, whether it's accurate news or not. They they believe it but they really don't care. They're in their own lights here. And this probably happens in a lot of the other countries also. So yeah, there's India near them. There's China. But But what's this other little country there, Burma? Well, I heard about the Burma Road and during the war with the Japanese, etc. But what is Burma, Myanmar, and then they hear about unsung sushi. So they know that name, but they really don't even know too much about her story. And there isn't a lot written when I started thinking about thinking seriously about doing a book. One of than I hoped to find a publisher who will work with me. I self published a book during COVID and that was a great, great learning experience and a great distraction from COVID but I decided I wanted to go bigger and get a broader scope for Myanmar. And so I learned that one of the things that they want you to do is what are their books are out there. There are not very many books. I mean, I've read quite a few books about Burma. But there are very few, because literally, there were no books being published, are my nonprofit, published ethnic folktale books, to save the folktales in the different ethnic groups, but also to provide a picture books for the little kids, because a lot of them growing up when I started working there, had never seen little touched a picture book. So we've continued to publish five new books a year, since 2012, with different sometimes in three languages Burmese and chin and English. So the folktales will be preserved. But now, libraries are coming back again to and one of our partners worked strongly with libraries around the country to ensure that they were starting to come back. So I do think the fact that they were so so closed off, it takes a long time to catch up, and for people to care. And we were just kind of getting there, I thought and maybe that's another reason. Although Congress was going to convene, and and then Parliament there would have had a majority of Democrats. So I'm sure that was the immediate driving force for the coup. I do think that having more knowledge about the country, just it's layer on layer, on layer on layer. And even at the beginning, where I knew we wanted to work with educational empowerment for women, it was about awareness. Because everybody I would talk to at home, they'd say where? Well, okay, I think I heard of owning stock sushi. But I don't know anything about that country. So if there's no books, there's not people talking about the country. And it's not visibly apparent on a lot of maps, then it's hard to create that knowledge about the country. And I do think that having the national unity government recognized as an entity is a huge step, moving along, Dr. Salsa, who's kind of the de facto head of that entity is very active in trying to create awareness and having his name out there of telling stories. If we can get the people to persevere easy for me to say, Here, safe and sound in my house. But if we can get them to persevere, and the UN is meeting, I think this week, the Human Rights Council, maybe there is some hope that if no one recognizes their democratic government, whatever name it's going to be, it's never going to happen and the junta will remain de facto in control. Right now, China isn't willing to talk against the who touches like they aren't willing to talk against Russia. And they have a stake in the country because they've been, you know, building dams and creating. Transport transportation and pipelines. So they have a vested interest in keeping quiet on me, Mr. And it's it's a hard battle, but you are so right. And you really articulated it very well, that it's repeating over and over again. You mentioned the hooter owning power. So one of the ways that, especially women, women with children, like one of my dearest friends there, she protested at first after the coup, she had a couple of scary close situations. She's got two little ones at home. So she accepted the fact with a lot of guilt that she can't protest in the streets anymore. So she didn't pay her electric bills, because every every chat that goes to the junta is helping to buy more bullets or tanks or machine guns or fire bombs, whatever. Until as they do now, they appeared at the door for little home one night outside Yangon. And they expected to be paid right then otherwise, they would take her right then to prison. Meanwhile, her two adorable children were all alone in the house. So she paid it. And she, she was sobbing, because she felt so guilty that the one thing she could do, she couldn't do any longer. So now she has moved out side of Yangon. Like an hour and a half bus ride each way for her work. And her brother in law built her and inexpensive house the other day in, even for me, where I have a lot of different ways to communicate, it's difficult. So the other day, I saw a post on Facebook from her. And apparently she had just broken her arm. She had no electricity, she had no Wi Fi. It's the hottest time of the year. She's really tight on budget, trying to set up the house. And she had to take the bus, you know, three hours every day to be able to earn a little money. But she's happy to be there. And she hopes to get solar panels or a generator, at least that she's happy to be there and not paying the junta and that was her way to protest and still help. Even though once again, she's also still suffering a lot. I think that the increased collaboration between ethnic armies is a good sign right now. And where they were strong individually, they're even more strong, united. And that's why they've been able to strike back at the junta. And I think that has surprised the military considerably, that there is still active opposition to them. I, I would hope the peaceful approach takes I think it's put the military on notice. And they're very clever in how they do these things with hanging launch ease and period pads and underwear, where they don't want the military to walk and doing things like that. But it's going to take some anyone the US or the UN, but one entity to cross that line and and recognize the democratic group who was selected legally to have everybody tip over it, I only think it takes one. And then the rest of them will tip. And I do believe that this was farther than I've ever seen it go. But you're right. Over the years, there's been other close closeness to have seen a better picture. And then things fall apart again. But the military thought that they would be able to take over quite readily this time. And I do think it was a shock to them to see that people aren't willing to, to give in because they know different now. And it's the first time in a long time that they know that there is life other than what fakes live. I don't want to be a Pollyanna that I really truly believe that.
Host 49:44
Right. So you've been an ally of the Burmese people and for the encouraging democracy and human rights in the country for some time and I think this current conflict now these darkest days they've ever faced They need more of these allies than ever before. So for those listening now, who are allies, or maybe potential allies, a couple of questions First, what mindset what framing would you suggest a an ally take how? How should they look at themselves and their role? And second, what can they do for those listening that are, are distressed by what's happening, but feel very far away. Very inconsequential, very powerless in terms of an organized military that's controlled the country for so many years half a world away? What could those who want to help and don't know what to do? What could they do that could make even just a little bit of difference?
Melody 50:50
I'm posting blogs right now about Myanmar on an entity called Girl slope, and they have a broad reach around the country. And as you would guess, with their name, they kill care very much about girls access to rights. And what I'm stressing in, in those, in addition to providing some more current information about what's going on in the country, is contact your elected officials. It doesn't matter what level or which country, but start, start that contact, and tell them about the national unity government tell them that the Democrats who were elected need to be recognized. And that's something that I know in the US a lot of people could do. Another thing is to donate. So I are now providing links in these posts to not just educational empowerment, and we are still able to get money into the country, even though it's a backdoor mechanism, like we did when I first started working there actively. But you know, I met mentioned better Burma, you have an extensive network. And girls, bloke and girl determined it organization there that I have utmost respect for, that have girls all around the country that they're helping. And so just the fact that they need clothes, they need blankets, they need basic things, you know, if their village was burned, and they'd left, they didn't really have the opportunity to take anything except probably the little kids. And so donate $25, you know, goes a long way. And all of the five entities that I provide the links for, they can give and no the money will get directly into the hands immediately to the people on the ground to really need blankets or food or a book or a smiling face or anything. So I reckon I suggest that and with groups here where we do have a significant Burmese community, you could go to wherever you live, whatever country or state to reach out to the Berniece group there. And I would guess that they're all around the US. And in other countries, I know Ireland has a big Burmese population active. The UK does. Many of the donors for educational empowerment here in the UK. The school we built was by a couple with the help of a couple of may have helping the Bernice delta where they we built schools in the delta. So there's there's ways to get word in, there's ways to get money in for help, that there's also ways to start grassroots and spread the word. And it takes a little bit longer sometimes but it can work. And just like the work that insight Myanmar is doing, oh my gosh, I love you guys. And I'm learning so much from you. So it's sharing information is so powerful if we just think to do it and in our world today. I know I'm constantly told I feel so helpless. Oh I want to help the Ukrainians I want to help the Burmese I want to, but what can I do? I'm just one little person, talk to your elected officials donate, call somebody, go find a refugee that has family there that you could help. There's a lot of different small steps that add up to huge steps. Before we found did educational empowerment, I knew I wanted to do something, but I didn't know what I could do. And I was one of those people then who didn't do anything. Shame on me. And so now I'm trying to remind people like me, that there's a lot you can do. They're just baby steps. And baby steps add up to miles in help for the people that we are hurting for.
Host 55:56
Yeah, that's well put, yeah, thanks for that. I want to go back and focus on your own story and your own interest in looking at your your time in Myanmar. And you have all the travels, you took that that time and seven years, and I'm sure thereafter, of all the countries and cultures you visited Myanmar, Burma was the one that you stuck with. And that really had a place within your heart. So I'm sure you've been asked this before. But why Myanmar? Why Burma? Why? Why did this end up having a hold on you not just in terms of exotic fIying it or wanting to learn more for your own benefit, but actually been involved in a series of nonprofits starting your own trying to make a difference in people's lives there. And so many years, so many decades having that hook that this was the place that you were going to really care about it. So what about it stood out and brought that, that interest and that desire for supporting you?
Melody 56:55
I'm Yes, I'm asked that constantly. And I think it's the people. I mean, the people that I met, and then it just that lump in my heart grows bigger and bigger. Because I meet more people and I hear more stories. When I was working with ClearPath, I regularly went to Lao, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Thailand and then along the Thai Burma border. And I made friends that I still communicate with and that I love and just have beautiful memories with. But yes, it was meeting the Burmese people. And I think that they were so hopeful and loving. And yet their life was so horrific. As far as poverty and lack of lack of connections with the outside world and lack of knowledge of the outside world. I just My heart went out to them. But it didn't go out to the other countries this much because people knew about them a bit more. And I didn't see the smiles in the hope in the yes, our life is in the toilet that we're we're still smiling and we're still hopeful that we're still going to help somebody else. That's the other thing that Bernice do my closest friends there. They give half if not more of their salary if they are paid to help others who have less. And I didn't see that anywhere else. And I couldn't believe it at first. But that's what they do. They're always thinking about others. And then there was the Rohingya thing. And how can that be? I couldn't get my head around that how could Buddhists who were so full of love, turn against people like that? Again, I think there's a lot of the military coup, creating an alternate world for people. But it reminded me that not everybody in that country is full of love for everyone else. But even then I couldn't really be too dismissive of them. I remember sitting in the taxi with a rocky man who spoke pretty good English, probably. Well, it was in the height of the Rohingya crisis. So that would be like 1617. And he didn't have a good thing to say about any of the Rohingya people. Because as far as he was concerned, he saw one side that they were trying to take his land and, and they were against all the Muslims, many of them are Muslim. Just he had his own view. And I was surprised yet once again, to hear that not everybody was as giving and forgiving as I hit may be grandiose in my head. But I do think bottom line for me, it is the hope and the giving, and the the ability to see the good most of the time, even if it's hard to find. So when I met that woman up late to Lang, and had that experience, up in their little village, and hearing more of their stories, I, I just knew that I had to do something more tangible. And what can I do? Well, I can do something like send money, and create an entity that could help provide awareness. And it, like I mentioned, it's just grown. And the more people I've met, the more places I've seen in the country, our delta experience, we it's interesting that building a school really draws a lot of attention if you're fundraising. And so, a friend or one of the other founders of educational power admit we watched a video at home about cycled, not geese, and the utter destruction. And I, I hadn't paid too much attention to it. But then we were both sitting there watching this. And it's like, we've got to do something, what can we do. And on the documentary, they were talking about how the schools were mostly demolished, down in the delta. So we looked at each other. And we said, We've got to build a school. And we found helping the Burmese delta. And what they do is, they find a village that might need a school built. And this is something listeners could do also, with that entity. So the school they had in the delta, which is flooded at least half of the year, with the title action on both sides and home. So they go into these areas, and this particular area, didn't have much of the school that was damaged. It was always getting wet, and the books would get wet and just wasn't working very well. So with the schools that helping the Burmese still to build, they put them up on cement feet, basically. And in this particular area, the helping verb nice Delta folks in the villagers were talking together about how much it floods there. So instead of the usual build up 10 feet for the structure, they built up 12 feet, well now they are safe every year since because they're those two feet extra above the water level. And the school has become an emergency hub. So when it's like full flood season, and everybody moves by boat, they are still just barely above the water. So people can take their little boat there, get some fresh water gets medicine or some food and then go back home. And it's one of the few schools built by in the delta by this entity that is above ground during the flood season. And for us going there it was I'd like a five hour car ride from Yangon, down there, and then another couple of hours by boat which 10 of this could fit in. And they would pumped along in the water, which was starting to rise again, that was still low enough to punt. And then we arrived at the school and the villagers have to give the land and they have to commit to maintaining the school. But our school just was lucky and was able to be approved by the government as a school. So it was going to have five teachers, they never had that many before. And they would also even though the teachers aren't always trained very well, it's not like they're college educated either. But it was more than passing the one from one village or to another to have teachers provided for their school. And then it's always above water. And then they get textbooks from the government. Yes, they only learn rote memorization. They don't get to learn critical thinking to solve problems on their own. But we're hoping to get some in there a sense it's now educational empowerments funded school down there. When we went home from the gala school opening, it was getting dark. And so our little boat was punting along in the dark. And the water was, again, kind of not where you want it to be for punting. So it was about knee high at that point. And because it was so shallow, it's some of these little canals we were in, they would have to get out and stand in the mucky bottom, without sinking to push times, because like three or four times we got stuck sideways in this little canal. And so they had to straighten this out. And then it's dark and but then the fireflies came out, I had never felt seen fireflies in my life, heard about never seen them. And we had the moon, we had the fireflies, we'd had a day of a school opening. It was a long day, but it was a day I'll never forget, again, the people who helped us build that school, in the Village and in this nonprofit, and our Burmese people working on the ground there in their country. It made my heart swell.
Host 1:07:57
That's great. And I think it's also just a testament of how treasured education is in Burmese society. I mean, going back historically, there's the little historical anecdote that when England made Burma colony in the 19th century, the literacy rate was actually higher in Myanmar than it was in England at the time. And of course, it was the the jewel of learning in in all of Southeast Asia I, I have friends in other Asian countries all over that whose parents or grandparents will talk about still kind of holding their mind Burma being this this place in the post war, especially where it had the best universities and they've run them in the ground now. And when I was teaching at the American Center, before the transition, and one of the things that I found, and that my fellow teachers and trainers there found as well, is that no, no one could really once someone actually got there in the American Center and was starting to teach, no one could really see it as a job after after a couple of weeks had passed, because they would just start to see the hunger and the appreciation and the dedication that the students were imbibing the knowledge and it would just drive teachers to new heights of wanting to provide more and do more, because you would just see the changes happening in front of you and how it was being absorbed. You know, I lead I lead trainings at the American Center, but I also went around the country and when I did trainings at churches and monasteries and community centers, I did churches in the middle of the lake, you know, on buildings that were floating on the water. And one of the memories I have is sometimes when I was doing these rural trainings in English, of course, I mean there they weren't translated, we were the trainings I did we would English was a requirement to be able to run them to be able to participate. So because the knowledge being imparted was just a bit too complicated to go through translation, but I have memories of like giving these trainings and there there would be, you know Soldiers are people preparing snacks or if we were at hotels, people working at hotels, they would go and sit in the back of the room with notes. You know, I had no idea what they could understand I had there people that I remember doing one training out of the community bamboo community library, and I pictures of this, it was so amusing to me, there, there were outside of the library, there were a collection of people just standing outside the window, just peering in the entire day, you know, eight hour training, just not just kind of seeing what was going on, but just standing there for the entire day, looking through the window to try to gain this knowledge, it was just the hunger for knowledge. And I think there's no other book where that that comes out quite as vividly as land of green ghosts. That's the story of a I think he's Korean ethnic, who, who, who has this unlikely journey to get a Literature degree from Oxford. But describing the conditions with which he grew up, I think there's a scene from that book, if I remember correctly, have like, one, one book that the whole class was sharing that would be passed around. And when there were military in the area, they would have to bury whatever books they had in their village under the ground, because they they didn't want them to be learning. And so they, they would literally bury dig a hole and bury their books in the ground so that they wouldn't be caught with them because they they didn't want them to become educated. So the the hunger for learning in that society and the hunger for knowledge. I mean, when you see, I think one of the the recent testimonies of that is when the transition period happened in the 2000 10s, and the state sensor resigned his position, the growth of news of the newspaper industry, of the journalism industry of people wanting to write about everything, and then with internet, the ability for blogs, and blogs and, and posts and everything that that could come just explode it. So, you know, it's, it's really just another one of those tragedies that for, for so many decades, this pattern just keeps repeating. And we just had this brief moment of, as one of my guests put it, I always go back to his metaphor. He described it as being we had a few years in the sunshine, and we really liked it. You know, we really liked that time in the sunshine. And we finally had a chance to grow the way that we always wanted to grow. And it wasn't perfect, but we were taking that chance that all our neighbors had and we never did. And then and the sunshine wasn't perfect, you know, the people who had done all these things to us in previous years. They they were living not just without impunity, but they were also they they were they still had power and money and control and everything else. We're like, okay, okay, that's enough like, like, you've given us the small sliver. And that's enough for us to be able to grow our lives and the billionaire wedding, the million dollar weddings that you're throwing, okay, well, we'll accept that because we at least have this sliver of opportunity that we've never had before. And then they took that sliver away. And that's where the democratic resistance and the protest movement developed. And just saying, you are not going to take this last little sliver, that that was given to us this moment in the sunshine, that we now know what it feels like. It's not just phrases of democracy. So many guests have told me that before the transition, democracy was just these phrases, democracy, human rights, freedom was just being bandied about. But no one really knew what it meant. After the transition, people were living that as you've mentioned earlier, as well, they were connecting in their own ways, if they were, if people were interested in organic food, or video games, or a certain breed of dogs or how to, or interior design, whatever the fields were, it was starting to grow and blossom and connect with these little passion hobbies of people around the world and, and manifest that and, and so these, these connections and growth was starting to become a normal civil society. I mentioned on another podcast, how when I went to the first Farmers Market in Yangon, I was blown away, you know, having lived through other periods. The fact that I was just going to a simple farmers market where there were a couple dozen people selling you know, homemade or homegrown vegetables and shaved ice and homemade ice cream and Ken Bucha. And whatever else was just like this is this is so I'm not one to get hung up on material things. But it just felt so good that there was now a literal marketplace where people could make things they cared about and profit from it. And on the other hand, people could consume things that that were going towards local businesses and NAFTA is just drink, you know, estar Cola or something they could, they could have these, the these new kinds of things in their lives that they were deprived of. And, and another thought built on top of that was, I recall how when I was living before the transition, if you saw anyone that was not even rich, but just somewhat middle class somewhat comfortable, you kind of knew they weren't a good person, because at that time before the transition, you couldn't really make a decent living wage, if you were not somehow in cahoots with the military. And if you just saw a nice car down the street before 2010, that car was, it could not be other than the car of a diplomat, or a crony or someone in the military. So it was not possible to be a decent person and have a nice car or a nice home driving down the street. And I remember on one occasion, I was in the country for about a year, like 2008, or something. And I took a trip to see my friend in Taiwan. And the first day, every car that went down the street, I was like, Oh my gosh, who's that? You know, what's, what's this kind of person because I was, it was such an automatic subconscious reaction that like, I don't mean nice car like a Lamborghini or Porsche or anything, I'm talking like nice car, like just just a normal car that runs this was before they opened the, the ban on imports. Just having a just seen a decent car was subconsciously in my mind of like, oh, well, this is if this isn't a diplomat, this is a bad person. And so to be able to see these farmers markets, we're getting back to this idea and connecting these two people could could make their own living following their passions, their maybe their being can become a millionaire, maybe it's just going to be a side hustle, maybe it's going to be something building to a decent wage, but they could follow their passions, build their business, act with integrity, give their customers something that is new and valued and enjoyable, and be able to support themselves. This simple act was something that never before can happen. And so that's why when I went to the farmers market, it was just a simple farmers market. But embedded in that, for me was just this, this joy that this was now possible for so many people on either side of the aisle that they can now they now can have this instead of being deprived of products and services and being deprived of a way to follow their passions and being deprived of a way of making money unless they were going to be extremely unethical. So this is what the site he was building for just a few years in the sun. This is what they were creating. And when the coup hit, it was really this. For those of us those of us allies, I should say because of course Burmese all know this in their bones from family stories and, and living in the country. But for those of us foreign allies, who knew this history and had lived or experienced at least some part of this history, when the coup hit, it was this, this this horrible realization, this young generation that they don't deserve this, they they they don't know this world, they haven't lived in it, they lived in a world of imperfect promises and, and and potential of opportunities, even if they weren't exactly equitable, or they weren't exactly comparable with other countries there was at least that glimmer and to have to take all that away and forced these people into just this life of terror and violence and having to defend their basic rights you know, as another podcast guest said to me, she's like Generation Z she's like, you know, I my battle was supposed to be for women's rights. This is I didn't I didn't like in our society the the the the unequal status of men and women and now I have to go back to fighting for basic human rights like well, what is this, you know, how, how did I go back several decades or centuries and suddenly went on badly and to have to see what what they've been doing is really, it just goes beyond any any expectation of courage and sacrifice of what they've done this past year. But heading into it, it was really just a a sadness of knowing what was ahead, based on what we knew was behind and what had happened. And, and what they were headed into and that they just they just did not deserve this, you know, they no one deserves that. But to have have lived without this and have grown in a different, more sensitive, safer world. At least if you're a Bomar in the cities of course it's different for ethnics in the countryside. But for for for the for a large part of the country. It was his just devastating that that they had to go back into this and they were still in the middle of this.
Melody 1:19:57
I know. I know. I Yeah, that's those are wonderful stories. Thank you for sharing that with me, I love hearing this kind of stuff. And not the sad stuff. But the fact that you've had your time there and you know the country and know the people and you care so much about them also, over here in the West Coast of the US, I don't run into that much. Maybe not the direct sympathetic, but it's a lot different if you if he's been there mean, it's too bad that it's true. Talking about education and books and everything. When I am Malala, her story came out. And it was so empowering for about girls education, we were able to translate that into Burmese by wonderful woman, bring nice woman and DC kept mark. And then the organization that I've mentioned, girl determined, they've got networks all around the country of these colorful girl, peer groups. So the girls come together, they learn how to share information and learn about their rights in built confidence, and are just empowered to try to follow their dreams and make their dreams come true. And so girl determine, distributed about 3000 copies of the Burmese version of I Am Malala two girls all around the country. And then I distributed some here with folks who have emigrated. And it was it was wonderful to be able to share that Malala story with them. And somebody actually it was the head of girl determined ran into a young woman the other day and, and she brought it up. So oh, I read it, I read it. It's the best book, it was so wonderful. It was so empowering. Education, oh my. And even after all these years to have heard about somebody enjoying that book, as much as I enjoyed it was really heartwarming. And then up in Machina, where we had a library, we started digital learning. For young women out there, they would learn to set up an email, Gmail account, how to do Word and PowerPoint and write a letter for a job. And we taught them critical thinking. So they would realize, well, maybe my my problem, I need to solve this how to get a job. And so then we would connect young women with potential entities and many of them like I say maybe half of the ones who graduated from the the short program went on to get jobs in areas that they wanted. And unfortunately, I'm sure now they're just trying to ripstop that program. And they're probably just trying to survive and have enough food to eat. It's just heartbreaking as you spoke of. Can I mention the little bit more about the book? That? Sure. No? Thank you. Okay. So basically, it's about awareness. I want stories of girls and young women to be heard, and what some of their poetry to be read. I've got pictures that I've taken over the years that I love. And it's, it's just going to be about women and girls and kind of an upbeat, hopeful book. So that maybe people will pick it up at the bookstore and oh, this just Myanmar heard something about it, and read it and then maybe want to do something on their own to help the people there. It's not going to be a memoir or novel it'll be nonfiction. And it was interesting to me with adventure like this. I've learned through the nonprofit and other experiences that for me, I just need to throw things out to the universe and sometimes they stick most of the time. They don't. But when they do, it's really fulfilling. And so I wanted to picture of Rohingya girls. And I was never able to go there in person. And I want to, of course, be legit in whatever I publish. And I now know how to search the source of the photo, which was like a big win for me. So I found this photo that I had copied off the web at some point over the last years. And it's up to young adolescent age girls walking hand in hand in a IDP camp for Rohingya, and they look strong and powerful and hopeful. And I wanted to use that photo. So I found out it was taken by a woman from Barcelona. And she had done a piece on the Rohingya. And it was one of her photos. So I wrote to her, I told you what I was, I was hoping to do a book and create more awareness for women and girls in Myanmar, and wanted to know if I could have permission to use her photo. And then I didn't hear and I didn't hear, and I thought, okay, let's delete that, we aren't going to be able to use it without permission. And then, of course, right after that, I got an email from her saying that apologizing for being late, she moved countries from Spain to South America. And she would love to have that photo in the book. And she had permission, I had permission. But could I sent her a screenshot. So it made sure that her friends in Spain where the photos all are, would be able to pull it, and it would be the right one, and then I could have a high resolution photo to use. And I could not find it I had deleted it could not find it could not find it finally found it at the last minute on the hard drive backed up of my Mac, and sent it to her. And so now eventually, I'll get the high res version of the photo, and be able to use it in the book. And it was just a highlight in my day, let's say.
Host 1:27:37
That's, that's great to hear. It's great to hear about all these projects that are ongoing, that are showing different creative kinds of ways of involvement and engagement. And, and that forum, you know, activism, awareness, raising fundraising, bringing these issues up there, there's no, there's no limits or boundaries for what one can do. And I think it's exciting to hear about those different things that the people get involved with doing and how they engage. So that I think in sharing that it also can motivate others to think of what they can do from their interests and support. You know, we've had just having a nonprofit, we've had people get in touch with us that have done everything from have a bake sale, and Berlin and some some kind of open park and then donate all proceeds to artists that have made albums and either donated all or some of the proceeds to what we do to a cafe in Washington state actually near you that that that has, has, has purchased a number of, of protest art and, and put out information in their Cafe about what's going on. So it's, you know, it's just it's great to hear all these stories of of different people doing different things from their their own background. So that's, that's really cool to hear. I have another personal question. Just going back to your 1974 visit there. I asked before in what ways Burma had changed or in what ways Burma was different in 1974. And then later years. Another question around that is not looking at how Burma was different with itself over time. But how Burma was different with surrounding countries back then. So if you could put yourself back in 74. And when you were on this, this so called hippie trail and going to many other countries at that time, if you go back to your memories of those, those initial memories and impressions and experiences, and this is a part of the world where they share climate and geography, partly a religion, culture, people everything. So there are some commonalities, but in what ways did you feel that Myanmar stood out?
Melody 1:29:55
On that trip, we also were able to go through Africa Understand, and we were on a bus with 30 other hippies from all over the place and there was an English guy who had an old Mercedes busted, he would drive back and forth between Kabul and Istanbul. So, when we went into Afghanistan, I vividly remember the first impression. I felt like I'd stepped back into the dark ages. It was a long corridor, on the road of lanterns. It was dark at that time, no, no electricity, just lanterns, people on horses, people riding by us. The garb, you know that they were wearing everything. I felt like I had stepped back into biblical types, let's say. I didn't feel that way with Burma. Because we had been. We've been in Pakistan, India, Nepal, trekking. And then Burma was the next stop. So I was already somewhat acclimated to the third world country view. And then I had favorable opinions of all those countries, then my time there. And so it wasn't as much of a shock is that first night driving across the border into Afghanistan. But I never really remember people commenting on Birdman. So in India, or Nepal, we met a lot of Australians coming up the opposite direction we were going, and we spoke to some of them. And that was kind of how we heard about the seven day visa. And it was glowing terms, you've got to see this place. It's unlike anything else you've ever seen. And then I hadn't really been to so many parts of Southeast Asia with pagodas everywhere. So I hadn't really experienced that. So that was totally unique. For me, it was the gratitude and the gold and everything. So in it, truthfully, my memories from the 70s some are vivid, and some are with my ah gone. At least can't grasp a hold of it at the moment. So I can't really remember much else about my anticipation just that I had read about Burma a bit in books, and I was curious to see it. And again, the reception of the people even with the language barrier. People were always very warm and helpful. And and like these women's out there smoking their cigars on the porch in Gurgaon. They just thought they were strong looking and having joyful they were laughing a lot and curious so it's not like going into Vietnam were just being communist the way it is. There's all kinds of differences. warm welcome that not the same. And Nepal, especially up tracking. Tracking it with just was a whole different world sleeping on the floor and eating potatoes. Just a whole different world also, so I think because of the gone I wanted to go there again. But there are so many places in the world and I have traveled all my life since I was 19 that I wanted to see that I haven't seen that. If it hadn't been the seven day visa. We're going to be flying anyway so why not papi Now, I didn't expect much because I didn't know much. And, and it was an experience where I wanted to go back, I couldn't wait to go back to Oregon. And so I did that on my own my first trip to me and bar, I went up there and thoroughly loved it again, and tried to remember back to the 70s when I was there. I mean, it's still a third world country. So it's not like it's going to the Grand Canyon or something over here. It's it's a different kind of world. But I'm very comfortable in that those types of world now. And then it was still a bit new to me. I don't know if that answers for you. But that's the best I have.
Host 1:35:54
Yeah, and it reminds me of the first question I asked to start this interview off was just to reflect on the differences between me and Martha and and now over the course of time that you went and I wanted to highlight how interesting it was that your answer basically skipped over 74 to 2010, as I picked up from 2010, with the changes, and I just want to highlight for listeners that this this big swath of years that were very little has occurred. And this is very similar to me, I first went in 2003 as a tourist meditator, and then I came in 2007, to live in work. And nothing really notable or, or, or different started to happen until after 2010. I've referenced this story on several podcasts. So listeners might get tired of it. But I I've referenced how like living in Yangon, between oh seven and 10 or 11 or so if there was a new restaurant, or mall or store or anything that was built and started, everyone would be talking about it didn't matter if it had good food, or even if you went there or what you thought about it, everyone would just want to go to the corner just to see what it was because nothing is just a testament to nothing happening. Nothing new occurring, no changes. This was the time of constant tea shop gossip of what might happen, what could happen, what you're hearing, but nothing actually does happen. It's really just stuck in time. And it is stuck in time when you'd walk down the street, you would see news weeks and times that would be for sale, that would be anywhere from five years to 15 years to 25 years old. Because they didn't have access to the newer. The newer papers, I remember one time in the job market, someone kind of like looking at me surreptitiously not thinking is he going to sell me drugs or you know, whatever it is. And he opens his code up. And it's like a Time magazine with Aung San su chi on the cover, you know, and he's trying to sell it for like, $15. Just this. Yeah. And of course it was we might smile at that now. But of course, this guy was risking quite a bit by even holding that at that time. But it really was a country that was cut off. And I remember when I was there in 2003, I had never been to a place where there, there was just how to say this. Of course you have the the lack of access, and the lack of connection has the way that that cuts off a country is really devastating. There was this sense when I was there, have an interest in curiosity in the world, because they didn't know anything else. And I just remember one day spending it with a couple of monks just that the entire day we would, you know, we had some tea and we walked around a pagoda and I went to their monastery. And I just remember throughout the day at various times one of the monks would would touch my hand, as we were crossing the street. I remember this. And he'd say, Brother, Brother, tell me what are the streets like in your countries? What is it like when you walk down the street? Because there was no Internet, there were no books there was there's very little television. And me as a foreigner was just this window of access to a world he couldn't begin to understand. And he didn't. The things he wanted to know, were so simple. He wanted to know, what were the streets like, you know, he didn't want to know what was democracy or what, you know, what was my education or he just wanted to know what did the streets look like he couldn't think of anything more. I had a friend and around that same time actually was 2003. I had a New Zealand friend who became a monk for about a year. And he describes the scene. We're in the middle of like 100 days of an intensive self meditation retreat. He was dragged to give a talk in front of an assembled crowd who wanted to hear from a foreign monk, kind of a world came from his his intensive meditation. And so as he's preparing to try to talk to the crowd and thinking what he can tell them, and of course, it's being translated, they start calling out to ask him questions. And, you know, they ask, Where are you from? And he says, oh, you know, I'm from New Zealand, they don't know where that is, he tries to explain, they asked how he came here, he says, By plane, they don't know what planes are. So he has to describe the way that planes work in the sky, and how they go to other countries. And so the first part of this talk he's supposed to be giving is all about the mechanisms of plane travel, and how one can get on a plane and fly to another place. And this, how were different countries are in relation to each other, and how you reach them. And so it was, um, it was, I think, trying to explain that to someone now, and even trying to explain to Gen Z type of people even trying to explain to Gen Z, Burmese, who weren't alive, or were too young at that time. The difference between now it's really astounding, you know, another one I go back to was Coca Cola. Coke was had bottling plants and just about every country in the world, except for two or three prior to the transition, Burma was one of those the the day that the the transition started to open up Coca Cola was there the next day, I mean, they were literally there with a bottling plant the next day that certain rules were changed. And I remember going to a training that was led by a foreign trainer, that was that was giving a workshop and the entire training built on the premise that Coca Cola was a ubiquitous capitalist product that was available everywhere. And the training just fell flat. Because in Burma at that time, Coca Cola was an imported, smuggled, expensive drink that costs $1, or two, a bottle that you only had at upscale restaurants or really fancy parties at that time. And so he's trying to give this talk on using this metaphor, this allegory of the ubiquitous pneus of Coca Cola, not knowing his audience that many of them would have never had it. Or if they did, it might be a couple times a year or a couple times in their life, it was this fancy upscale beverage before the transition. And that was a moment that also really underscored for me how useless it was trying to bring in these foreign experts that weren't trying to understand the local culture that weren't trying to work with the local society and customs, to be able to deliver their knowledge in a way that was the most effective and the most practical and relevant to understanding the conditions people were living in. And when you you were just giving a kind of recycled rehearsed talk, that might work in 100 different countries, it wouldn't work in Myanmar in ways that you wouldn't know unless you were actually ingrained and interested and connected to what those curious to what their actual reality was. So, you know, I think that, that when you look at the way the country changed, starting any year, up until about 2010, these were very incremental changes. These were, you know, even going back if, if a new Thai restaurant was built on the corner of new road, that was the exciting thing that happened that month, you know, up until 2010, or the tea shop rumors, but it was really once the transition started that you really started to see this massive change, you know, month by month is oh, now there's new cars. Now, there's ATMs now there's banks now there's now there's Coca Cola, you know, and, and it was just like, month after month, just of cataclysmic change that really hadn't been seen before.
Melody 1:43:48
I think that when I think of the coup, it's a potential loss of dreams for all these young people. And I don't want them to lose their dreams. I want them to have hope. And you know, hope they do that. That's I think what bothers me the most well, there's all the violence and the atrocious violence and everything but like you indicated people work like coming alive and and looking to maybe start a business or they always kind of thought of doing ABC and now maybe they could and they've been learning ways to do it. And yeah, so exciting to see all of that and then to have it just dashed in a in a nighttime is beyond tragic.
Host 1:44:52
Yeah, it is. And that's what we're trying to do with these kinds of discussions to bring awareness to it to talk about what people can do beyond and just listening how they can be involved and to inform, to provide greater information Myanmar has suffered. So long being characterized one dimensionally through just easy narratives, simplistic reductionist narratives. And I think one of the real interest in doing this podcast is just to show the how dynamic it is how multi dimensional how many different parts of society and individuals and communities are, are doing different things and try to break down this one dimensional storyline to provide greater information so that people can engage with that in their own way.
Melody 1:45:39
Ya know, I think it's so powerful, and I really commend you all for doing what you're doing. Totally.
Host 1:45:49
Thanks for joining us for today's episode. Being a small mostly volunteer team, our production time for a single episode before the coup was sometimes as long as four months from start to finish. While we have worked at decreasing lead time, the fastest we were ever able to manage was just around three weeks. To get during this current crisis where even a single day's event can produce such shocking news and urgent needs. We simply don't have this luxury of time. So we've worked around the clock to substantially shorten the length of our production cycle. The turnaround for some episodes now has been just 36 hours. However, we can't accomplish this goal without your support. If you found value in today's episode, and think that others may also benefit from this type of content. Please consider making a donation so that we can continue our mission. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military coup. We welcome your contribution in any form currency your transfer method, Your donation will go to support a wide range of humanitarian missions, aiding those local communities who need it most. Donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, internally displaced person IDP camps, food for impoverished communities, military defection campaigns, undercover journalists, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies COVID relief and much more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs. You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution for a specific activity or project you would like to support. Perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode. All of this humanitarian aid work is carried out by our nonprofit mission better Burma. Any donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fun. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website and better burma.org That's b e t t e r, B urma.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause, and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either the Insight Myanmar or better Burma websites for specific links to those respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org If you'd like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration.
1:48:29
Hung up