Transcript: Episode #185: From Reconciliation to Resistance

Below is the complete transcript for this podcast episode. This transcript was generated with the assistance of an AI transcription service and has not been reviewed by a human editor. As a result, certain words in the text may not precisely match the speaker's original words. This discrepancy is especially evident in cases where speakers have distinct accents, as the AI may make errors in interpreting and transcribing their speech. Therefore, it is advised that this transcript should not be referenced in any article or document without first cross-referencing the timestamp to ensure the accuracy of the guest's precise words.

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Host  00:09

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01:05

HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha Ha Ha Ha ha ha. Good day.

Brad  01:46

welcome back Today I'm joined by Alan Clemons following the release of his book, and we're going to be talking about the book but more broadly, we're going to be talking about the philosophical ramifications of the book and the different dimensions of the ongoing conflict and the Myanmar context, and how we can understand those through the lenses of femininity, philosophy, theology, history, and ultimately, human nature. But before we get into that, Alan, I'd like to invite you to introduce yourself for the audience and let them know what experiences you've had in Myanmar.

Alan Clements  02:30

Yeah, so great honor to be here with you and listeners, both within Myanmar and around the world. My name is Alan Clements. I'll try to keep this as brief as possible. As the real issue for me is the ongoing radical crises in Myanmar Burma and how we can participate, how we can support the people of that country undergoing what I call a genocide of democracy and freedom and human rights. And so many other terms attributed to the criminal terrorist. Burma's former general being online, who is now the foremost criminal terrorist in the world. After the drone murder of the al Qaeda leader appointed by Bin Laden back in Cabo by President Baden Biden. My history in Burma goes back to 1976 77. I went there to ordain as a Buddhist monk I had read a book attributed to Mahasi Cedros teachings on mindfulness meditation, and Vipassana insight meditation, and went there specifically to meet that man, as one of the foremost if not the foremost teacher leader of this ancient tradition attributed to the Buddha, which of course has become global today. Mindfulness is ubiquitous, even in areas of military and corporations 1979 jump time. I was unaware that Burma was influenced under the depravity if you will of the dictator at the time. And so 1979 I invited Mahasi Sayadaw to come to America, to Los Angeles and to the Boston area to do to 10 day, 14 day mindfulness meditation retreats to cut it to the point, the end of those two retreats, which were remarkably prolific and groundbreaking. I asked Mahasi Sayadaw in the entourage of monks, if in fact, I could return to his country and ordained to practice under his tutelage. His short answer was it's more likely To be granted possibly a short term visa. If in fact you ordained as a sub manera, a novice monk in New York and go back with us, they probably will interpret that as sincerity. I ordained in New York flew back with him and on the sixth day of my seventh day stay permit. I was granted a three month extension. And I was told it was one of the first extensions to a non diplomat. In some years, I immediately went into silence and intensive meditation at the Mahasi satanic, the meditation center in Rangoon, Burma, to indulge myself in what felt to be the most important undertaking of my life, which is to sit still, to walk, eat in silence and to face myself and simply to feel the nature of consciousness and what was I doing either knowingly or unknowingly, to contribute to my own suffering, and Mahasi Sayadaw and the teachings of the Buddha, as I heard them, offered a very direct approach to self liberation. And so freedom was the operative word that led me to Myanmar. It was what brought me into the monastic order it what kept me in context to the nuns and monks, and eventually in 1984, having been removed from the country several times by the dictator, told to leave within 24 hours. On the fourth time, I was told to leave. I actually disrobed as a monk and went back to America to begin to lead retreats upon invitation as a layperson, jump time to 1988 8888 the ubiquitous time, August eighth 1988, as most people in the world know, but simply as a refresher, when the students and the youth of that time essentially said we have had enough of oppression of, of toxic patriarchy to use my word, the abuse of totalitarianism the violence, the torture, the oppression, the obedience, do it as I say, or suffer the consequences of confiscation of land, property, business, money, rape, torture, all the things that we see today jump time 2023, repeating ad nauseam again and again. And again, do we see these, these these convulsions of violence and terrorism, engulfing this ancient exquisite land of 132 cultures and languages and dialects 50 million approximately people with Islam and Judaism and atheism and Buddhism and so many different philosophies and teachings available in this country the size of what Germany, France and in 88, I became riveted, if you will, by this uprising primarily because friends of mine, who I'd known as a monk, both monks and nuns and lay men were involved in this uprising a nationwide what they called a revolution of the spirit. First and foremost, let us examine our own unrecognized anger, our own unrecognized greed, our own fear, and do all that we can to elevate the status of our own consciousness as we transform society, through nonviolent means politically, socially, and hopefully even spiritually, thus the name a revolution of the spirit, Burma's second grade struggle for freedom after the assassinated general Dong, Santucci, his father and the elected leaders at that time, succeeded in freedom from the UK back in 1945. And so I listened to the on Sunsoo cheese speech through translation at the Shwedagon Pagoda to nearly a half a million people and I like many people were deeply touched and inspired. Halfway through my introduction I'm able to sit and unpack comfortably comfortably continuing my life. You know, as a 35 year old white male leading retreats in America and around the world, and thinking that my friends and my family possibly were being harmed or tortured or killed, I got a phone call from a former monk of mine with gunshots in the background, and asked Alan, can you help me leave the country. And from that my nonprofit helped him leave the country. But as a result of that, I personally felt compelled to go back into the country, which I did underground, to see for myself. What this uprising was, how it was played out, had my friends and my family and fellow nuns and monks been harmed. Burma was my spiritual home. These were my family. The finest days of my life happened in Burma. And so I went in underground. And as a result of that two week, movement through Yangon, back in the day, it was called Rangoon, I met with a lot of different people. And I was infinitely horrified. To be in the context of terrorism and murder and violation. I'd never known it in my life. I was an American that grew up with music and psychedelics and poetry and lovemaking and dance. And here it was within my own spiritual family, this egregious, traumatizing, unrelenting tyranny. And it freaked me out to the point where I felt emboldened. From an outside point of view, I am not courageous. This is not my war. This is not my revolution. I am merely an outsider. And I took notes and I interviewed friends and I looked firsthand. And eventually, when the underground secret police heard about me, and came looking, I fled the country and went underground, to the Burma, Thailand border to a place called Mei salt. And at that time, a place called menopausal, which turned out to be the recognized capital, home ground, if you will, of the most revolutionary of the students that were at the epicenter of the 888 uprising that were not imprisoned or disappeared or murdered. And I spent several months there. Going in and out of metaplot, out into the jungles, meeting members of the Keanu going to Shan State, and meeting all the members that were thought of as the leaders at the time of the ABSD F. And I again, was both radically inspired and deeply heartbroken that these people, some of them I knew as monks and nuns, now from the peace and the sanctity of a monastery, me with an American passport that could go back to Bangkok at any moment. My brothers and sisters, were there out of choice to fight this revolution. And it brought up the deepest philosophical challenges I've ever known in my life. Do you stay in fight? Or do you take notes and flee? Do you raise money around the world to feed and how this and to heal. And so after three months, I stayed and learn. I met with the underground parallel government that the anointed Prime Minister Dr. Sane wind dogs on to cheese cousin was the head of I met all the people associated with that, that parallel government along with the ABS CF. And I said, the best thing for me to do would be to take as best as I could, in my own humble way, the photographs, the notes, and the heart script that came from those four months and do my very best to share that information around the world in any way that I could find accessible through the media through lecture and talk. And lo and behold, in the last 1/10 of this introduction, I'm sorry to go on so long. But when I ought to Bangkok. Little did I know that somehow it was known that I as an American, a former Buddhist monk in Burma, who had met underground with the AB SDF, and the doctor saying we when and his parallel government and was their firsthand going to many of these areas and villages that had been burned, with people beheaded, engaged in firefights with the ADA SDF and some of the millet military associated with the Dhammapada. Many of the international media were there to interview me, and to hear from me my firsthand experience of what went on, and that led to here it is 2023. And that was in 1989 1993, decades and a half of, of ongoing frustration, ongoing heartbreak, ongoing inspiration, to be an outsider holding space and support for my beloved brothers and sisters, and uncles and teachers and mentors, and guides throughout the country of Burma, not just the Burmese, I travel the country numerous times. Back in the day, I could speak the language quite well, to bring their revolution, as I understood it, from my humble investigations to the broader public through TV radio. At that time, there were not podcasts, but through books and films. And as a result, most noted, I went back into the country in 1995. Underground again to meet with Aung San su chi, who had just been released from six years of detention. I was introduced to her by her colleague guten Liu, the former General of the Army. And we spent six months in underground conversation that led to a book titled by her called the voice of Hope conversations with Aung San su chi. And as a result of that, I was thrown out of the country, I was banned and vilified for 17 years. And many of the people associated with the book. Many of the people that I were in contact with, not directly because of me or the book, but within a few months after the release of that book, found themselves back incarcerated either in prison or in hard labor or in solitary confinement, including Ucci Hmong, who entertain dot Aung San su chi, so many of them went back in and for the most part for the next, what, 567 10 1215 years, on and off. We lead through those dark years of abject imprisonment, silence and torture, a revolution that was fought in many, many unusual ways. But we did our best in the west, to bring their courage to bring their story to life through film, book, article, television, and as a result of close here. I've had a number of different co authors Leslie Kane. Fergus Harlow, we've done maybe what 12 books on Burma, two films. And most recently, as of the last couple of days, our latest book titled Aung San su chi from prison with a subtitle a letter to a dictator this came on after our four books that were released October last year 2000 pages, co authored with Fergus Harlow called Burma's voices of freedom. These were 10 years of underground interviews that I did after meeting Aung San su chi in San Francisco when she was awarded the Vaclav Havel award for, for creative dissent. I told her that the President had had unbanned me and I asked her for her advice, she said if you would please, please return to my country and carry on with bringing my people's voices to the world and sofa the next 10 years, I went into the country, maybe 2030 times that resulted in probably close to a million words of transcription of long form interviews of not just the famous people in the revolution. But my goal was to bring the voices of the people, cafe workers, taxi drivers, slave laborers, journalists, teachers, doctors, nurses, including all the greats from the the extraordinary courage of win 10. The journalists who spent nearly 21 years in solitary, I spent five days in five long form interviews with the gentleman bringing his 21 years of torturous incarceration and courage as one of the 50 interviews in those four volumes of books, including Gucci mug, and so on and so forth. And so, here with the release of this book, it's not my final statement to Burma, but I could not in good faith continue to stand by and watch military coup de taunt by being online termed criminal terrorist, and an indoctrinated group of men and women, who are no longer military personnel, but terrorists at large persecuting, raping, burning, torturing the people of beloved Burma. And so this book was, by way of inviting the world media. Listen, there is something to be said, that's not being said about Burma. It's in this book, please, I invite you a worldwide BBC, CNN, Washington Post New York Times, you got it wrong about Burma, you got it wrong about doll Aung San su chi, the vilification program about her. You've got it wrong corporate media in this book. The first part which we won't get into right now, just as a simple introduction, is a set of interviews, in her words, refuting the global dialogue of vilification about her of what she didn't do, in what she should have done. That's part one of the book. But the book goes far beyond trying to vindicate dogs on Suchi. It is our belief in this book, to bring what we want the world to hear and to do, to bring a solution to this incredible tyranny in Burma, to the world to possibly learn a political spiritual lesson that is in our hands, if we so choose to take it. So that's, that's the beginning of of, of my introduction and getting into the book.

Brad  23:27

So thank you for that. And, and I do like the way you've touched on a couple of quite a few different things, but one of them is the importance of the world learning a lesson. Myanmar is in I mean, the the it's almost cliche at this point to say that Myanmar is at a crossroads. And we are well and truly, in the crossroad at this point. But it could go either way. And, and I think it is imperative that the international community pay attention to Myanmar, it is imperative that the international community get invested in Myanmar. And be aware that no matter what happens, this is going to be taught for decades, as a case study, either in how you can guarantee that a state would fail, or in how you can establish a thriving and healthy democracy in a region that is that is still beset by by militarism and dictatorships. So I think, I think there is a lot of significance and importance to the subject matter. And we thank you for writing the book. So let's get into it. So this is a book in three parts. And it's probably best if we handle each one separately. And the first part of the book you've already alluded to is Aung San su chi in her own words. But, of course, this book was quite recently written and also CG, as we know, continues to be held in in appalling conditions in epidural by the military. So how, how was this section of the book actually accomplished?

Alan Clements  25:00

Okay, great question. The the title of the book is to draw attention to her. Obviously, we had no underground contact with her while she's been detained. However, I've had a lot of contact with people who had been detained, who have had contact. I'm not going to name anything beyond that. That first part of the book is not about her today. The other parts of the book are about Burma today, including her, but the first part of the book. And please, this is a very unusual point. My colleague Fergus Harlow, few people know of him, one of the most educated, erudite, dedicated, investigative journalist activist that I've ever met or known worldwide. He and I've been working together nearly 15 years on Burma for the last 12 We've co authored Burma's voices of freedom together. The book wisdom for the world by Dong, Sun Tzu Chi spiritual advisor, Saito coupon DITA, which is a very important book that very few people know about. Very few people know that Nelson Mandela had a spiritual guide, very few people knew that Gandhi had a spiritual teacher, very few people knew that Martin Luther King, or tick, not Han had spiritual guides or teachers. Few people know who don't Aung San su cheese, spiritual guide and teacher was his name was the late venerable Saito will Pandita he was eatin ooze guide, he was the guide of many of the NLD leaders. He was my teacher for nearly 35 years. There's a lot to be said about him. It's found in the book, wisdom for the world in mindful advice for my people. But back to the first section of the book. What Fergus did is to show his dedication try tracked down everything available online to dot Aung San su chi has said in the last could it be 10 years or 12 years since her last release? Was it in 2010? Or was it in 2012? I'm not sure. Everything she said worldwide. Press releases, lectures, Radio TV, two minutes snippets, the BBC talks, in country talks in country lectures, transcriptions, translations 500 600 700 800,000. Words were put together of her words and only her words and that of the interviewers, other than me, and it was clearly marked. When, where? And by what media source? Did we locate it? We took the last five years of the most salient comments that she has made publicly footnoted, where she said it on what media source and who was the interviewer, where she directly addresses the issues that she has been vilified for not speaking up about or not addressing. And on and on and on, we wrote a list of the criticisms. And we let her in her own words, address those criticisms, even to the point of her saying, I've been repeatedly criticized for not speaking up for the row Hinga allow me to say again, that I have spoken up, they refuse to report it. They refuse to say that I have spoken up and let me say it again, such and such a date, such and such an interviewer and this particular media source. That's the first 1/5 of the book, in her words, with one sentence questions that we came up with to address the most vile, denigrating and controversial issues attributed to dolt Aung San su chi, from the beginning from the beginning of the Rohingya crisis, was it four or 567 years ago? So she refutes the criticisms. In her own words, don't believe us? But stop saying she didn't say it. And when you do say that, start referring to this is where she said it and then say something about what you want to say. But stop saying that she didn't say it or she could said it this way. Okay? Don't Aung San su chi is not perfect. This is not about exonerating her personality. I spent a lot of months with her. She's a difficult person. She is extraordinarily valued, ethically sound, profoundly satirical and funny, intensely, intensely present, radically curious, but she is not complicit with genocide or with tyranny, or with absconding from the compassionate role of supporting the Rohingya or the Buddhist anywhere in the Rakhine state, as well as a lot of the ethnic minorities around the country. Is she to be faulted at times? Absolutely. And we include statements of how she should be faulted in her own words. So I could go on and on and on about the first fifth of the book, but I don't want to give away all the most important points. But hey, listen, if you're going to criticize Dong, Santucci, read the book, okay, dude, CNN, BBC, Washington Post, whoever you are out there, just drop your narrative until you read the book. And or have someone invite me onto your TV show your podcast, your whatever it is your platform, and tell me that I am full of Shi T. Okay, and I'm willing to stand there and listen to you, and I'll retort and respond.

Brad  31:35

So let's sort of look at this issue. I don't want you to necessarily give away all of the sort of points of the book, obviously, we want people to read it. But I wonder if how you would describe the trajectory of Anson Suchi in mainstream media because back in 88, you know, she really came up she really made a name for herself. Then she was in house arrest for a lengthy period of time the obvious comparisons were drawn to Nelson Mandela and to a lesser extent comparisons being drawn to Dr. Martin Luther King, and she wins the Nobel Peace Prize for children have to accept it that she becomes this very large image even in the west of humility and grace and and self sacrifice in the quest for freedom and democracy and progress in fighting against militarism with compassion, and then

Alan Clements  32:31

Dude, she's getting death threats for kids are getting death threats code Kokoda, can you get the airport's been assassinated with this kid in his arms. This woman is under unrelenting tyranny. Bye, psychopaths. Serial killers on a country wide level. She spent 19 years in confinement, the woman is traumatized. All of her people are radically traumatized. But she is not a violent, complicit woman with a genocidal psychopath called the military or the thumb Muda. They're kept in the dark. They're given misinformation. I spent 10 years on the ground, talking to the people closest to her and to her. They got it wrong. They didn't do their investigative journalism in depth. I have had numerous death threats even to meet me was threatening for them. To get this information is threatening. I've had death threats even up until the last seven months. She has been under siege look where she is today. This is not a woman who has been complicit with murder, rape and denigration. She's filled with compassion at the same time. Who in the world could handle the complexity of hell under a psychopathic army, led by a terrorist criminal in one of the most complicated circumstances in the world, being supplied and supported by the psychopath in China Zhi Jing ping, the idiot psychopath Putin in Russia. Burma was the next Tibet and people blew it. The Bay of Bengal is oil rich like Saudi Arabia. They blew it. Burma is a slave go state of people who were willing to work in die for a penny. You blew it West. You gave Burma to a dictatorship. You vilified Aung San su chi, the consequences of the death of the nation. If we do not intervene. You got it wrong. Read the book. I'm a little old person from the outside. How did I get it right? You think I'm so passionately crazy. I want to lie to the world. But I'm willing to debate anyone in CNN In New York Times, President Biden, the United Nations Security Council, Trudeau anyone slet stand on the information, I can make a case for why she went to the World Court, I can make a case for why she has done what she's done. Is she 100%? Right? Listen, when someone goes off on me and just looks at me the wrong way, I normally just give them the fu CK off. Could you imagine having my daughter raped and murdered by someone who's still wanting to talk to them? Burma is governed by one of the most maniacal, evil terrorist organizations, our planet has seen, end of story, and there is a solution. And part of that solution is for the world to rally around you the most obvious 23 ethnic minorities that are armed, the other 110 that are unarmed, and the 50 million people of the country from all religions and philosophies. And the civilian government that did an epic turnaround from an evil military that one democracy and demand, what I'm about to share in the upcoming minutes of this very important conversation that you and I are having, that I don't hear is being done anywhere. The issue of vindicating Aung San su chi is almost it's not so what we did it as one part of the book, the bigger issue still remains to be spoken. But I do demand that she's part of the solution. And part of that solution is the immediate release of 12,000 political prisoners, the immediate release of the President and Dong, Sun Tzu Chi. And those are just a start. And we can get into the variations on what I think are the solutions that are so near at hand. They're almost like laughable. They're so doable, if only leaders around the world had the moral courage to stand up. And I hope that they hear you and me. And wherever this interview goes, and wherever it's translated and go, You know what? The guy's passionate. He's pretty intense. He's got a vested interest in it. He's put some skin in the game. But he's got a point. He's offering a solution that will help resolve the problems of democracy in the world and the credibility of leadership's around the world at a time where democracy and citizens around the world have lost trust in their elected leaders.

Brad  37:53

But so you, I'd be very interested to hear your case for the ICJ because you specifically brought up the ICJ and answer CG choosing to go to the ICJ to represent your mind, the case that was brought by the Gambia attracted a lot of international criticism, it was widely seen as using her PR position to defend a country against allegations of a genocide that the military were actively denying. While they were actively carrying it out.

Alan Clements  38:23

I hear you and I don't want to I we have the we have the transcript in the book. I've watched it dozens of times. She doesn't defend military aggression. Okay, she doesn't defend genocide. She's speaking to a solution to an extremely complicated dilemma of on the one hand, an evil oppressor, and she knows as well as anyone what it means to be on the receiving end of their evil. And an extremely complicated circumstance in Rakhine state that very few people know about the complications there. And she's in the middle as an elected leader, trying, trying to resolve what seems to be an impossible circumstance. With a FEM, I use this word, a feminine inspired solution called reconciliation. If we agree on one side and vilify the other, it'll only propagate the vilification and the war. We've got to come in between, like the Buddha said, and call off the aggression. We've got to stop and listen and talk. After all, she is one of the elected leaders of the civilian government. People do not realize the military was not part of the government. They were wanting to kill don't Aung San su chi prove a point they kill coalgaadi Me An elected National League for Democracy member from Rakhine State who was a Muslim and one of her best friends. She hired and brought in Kofi Anon, one of the most noble of Secretary Generals, the United Nations for a year long study in Rakhine state, as you know, as well as I do, to look carefully on the ground, how can the Buddhists How can the Muslims How can the atheists How could the Jews live together with equal rights and education and food and supply? Days before that release? There was a systematic, call it what you will attack on military installations and police installations. almost completely overlooked is the word a year long study by Kofi anon initiated by Dong, Sun Tzu Chi for a solution, a peace and harmony and well being that included the Rohingya. I could go on and on and on, I don't want to give the book away. But she is not what they say she is, again, it's hard to realize what it means to have a sociopath in your living room. Who's already shown you firsthand, I'll blow your friend's head off with his kid in his arms. If you step out of line. I was told how many times when I was in AP underground, but people close to her Allen. They threaten us all the time with murder. Okay, what do you do with that? I'm not defending her by going to the Hague. But she did not defend genocide. She did not defend the thumb at all. She tried to bring peace and to keep these warring factions aside and to do the impossible. Could she have said something a little bit more that said, Listen, what the Rohingya are undergoing is horrendous. I'd have to go back and study the transcript to see what she actually said. What didn't say. But I could go on and on about that. But I disagree with the premise of what we're talking about right now that she did not stand up and that she did not support. The military. It was a parallel is a parallel government. And they're not to even be acquainted with the word government. They're a terrorist organization, proof of the point, February 21, until this moment, look what they've done to their own people.

Brad  42:22

I'm wondering how you would describe then answers, which is sort of fall from grace within Media, like what would you consider to be the motivation for media, especially in the West, to turn on someone that previously was was a vaunted sort of symbol of progress and democracy?

Alan Clements  42:42

I hear you but bear with me. And I know this is going to be probably to my detriment. But you know, look at the corporate media's position on vaccination, non vaccination. I don't know where you stand on that. But look at the tsunami of disinformation, that we could attribute that's coming out now to CNN, BBC, New York Times Washington Post. Some of the most trusted medical institutions in the world lied to us. Why would they? Why would the corporate media lie to us? I mean, the position that I see in Burma that, that somehow, the maniacal sociopaths Zhi Jing ping and I don't mean to offend him any more than he offends people simply by mass rape, incarceration, and and do what I say or follow or or suffer a terrible consequence. But I think like we wanted Iraq, I think he wants Burma like he wants Tibet. Burma is the next Tibet and he has Burma now. Burma is what I think China has 33 different large counties are whatever the word is, sections of the country. I think 15 of the 33 sections of China are larger than the entire country of Burma. And when you look at the amount of oil that's coming out of the Bay of Bengal in that 1200 mile long or 1200 meter long pipeline that goes from off the Bay of Ben go through central Burma into Nan province. Hello. Why are we supporting Saudi Arabia as a totalitarian government that is massacring the people of Yemen, oil, money, weapons, and I think Burma serves the world to have China not be too upset. Hey, listen, dude. You do what you do you. You've attacked Iraq, you've attacked Afghanistan and spent $7 trillion of your taxpayers money, give us Burma. 50 million people. We want a little bit of oil to run our country. We'd like to bet we need some high out To clean water, we need slave labor to buy plastics and antibiotics. Burma is suffering. They're just cattle. They're just like stuck animals. They'll work for anything because they're so oppressed. What's the problem over there in Washington, you do it? Why can't we do it? I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. But I wouldn't be surprised that you could look to Mr. Putin and Mr. Zhi Jing ping, and to the whoever the people are in Naypyidaw that control the puppet coming online from tonch way around him, who are these people in AZ on who are the bankers in Singapore, who was the second and third tier people that owned the money in the loot and the real estate and all those condominiums and malls going down that used to be built in Rangoon? I think they gave it to China, so that they could have oil, slave labor. And everything in America pretty much requires at people from other countries that we don't even know names have to be built and made for us to buy it at the price that we do. We're a country that lives on toxic patriarchy based upon enslavement, torture, oppression, and entitlement. I think that's what's gone down in Burma. And Dong sensitive chi as a very attractive, well educated woman was the easy hit lady, take her out, give it to China can't lose. Look what we've done and look what the military done. Look what they did on. Probably they were part of it, but they could not applaud long enough or victorious enough at how deeply she has fallen into so called disgrace. To the point, look what they're doing now, there are eradicating democracy from ever taking root in Burma again, unless we act tonight. And these boys and girls in Gen X, that are beyond epic in their morality, they're showing the world what freedom really looks like. And I'm only on the outside and I'm awed. I can't even imagine on the inside of what it means to be there. hearing stories of young children Mom, Dad, I can't go on another day, please kill me. The suffering of the people of Burma, for what oil money clothing, plastics, antibiotics, tea, lumber resources. I think that's the reason why dogs and su chi was not only thrown under the bus, I think it was just toxic misogyny. Take the bitch out. Let's show the world what it means to stand up to tyranny. Try it and see what happened to her. You can only imagine what's going to happen to you. So that's my kind of off the cuff. well documented in my book, I wrote a letter to make online part of the book's subtitle, a letter to a dictator, which is not about murder. I'm not calling for his assassination. I'm not doing Netanyahu, a targeted killing. I'm appealing to his conscience. It's my attempt at reconciliation through instigating a revolution of conscience at this last moment in time, to help support my dharma family, the people of my country, the people of Burma, all ethnicities, the birthplace of my revolutionary energy, not just my dharma. But I care about democracy. I care about human rights, I care about freedom. I care about revolution. And Burma isn't just Burma. For me, Burma is the hope of the planet.

Brad  49:01

And so you've, you've rolled this out a couple of times. And I want to I want to touch on this because I think it's a fascinating insight that I haven't quite heard this way before. But a few times, you've already spoken about onsen Suchi. And the movement around her in terms of femininity. And you've spoken about the military and their hangers on in terms of patriarchy and in terms of misogyny. And you seem to be framing the current conflict. And not just the post coup conflict but the the lengthy ongoing conflict between pro democracy forces in the country and militarist forces in the country as a seemingly feminine masculine conflict. I'm wondering if you could expand on that and why you you frame it in in those terms.

Alan Clements  49:56

Obviously, as a man I'm speaking about the word feminine and spa I heard as a quality of consciousness, not embodied intrinsically in gender. And when I associate the word feminine, I think of openness, transparency, the power of conversation over calculated violence, justice and acceptance over tyranny and oppression, equality over coercion. All the qualities of what I would attribute to be the archetypal, intrinsic mother, perhaps I hope embedded in the genome of all of us, the mother that holds to the child of her breasts, the nurturance of sustainability. Aung San su chi, speaks of Burma as a sustainable democracy, that may not even be known in her own lifetime, if we do it well and do it right. Feminine inspired behavior. Point 1.2. I can't say that. I know her really well. But I spent six intimate months with her in her home talking to her about intimate subjects. I knew her husband, I knew her children. I knew many of her most intimate colleagues. She reiterated over and over again, from the time I met her in 95. Until the final time I met her I don't know when it was in 2021, or 20, a very obscure word that almost none of us can really understand called reconciliation. And if you remember that Burma's revolution of the spirit, was intrinsically non violent, but intimately co associated with, we're going to have to learn to coexist together. And we want to do that coexistence. without reverting to the fist to the gun, to the jet, to the rifle, to torture, to violence, to toxic patriarchy and oppression. Her use and her repeated emphasis on reconciliation, I attribute to feminine inspired revolution. She said to me over and over again, why can't we just learn to talk about our differences? What is the fine art of dealing with complex topics? Another point, I think it's worth mentioning, but we bring this point up in the book in one of the sections, so I really don't want to give that point away. We really look into the architecture, if you will, of nonviolent conversation. In this happened long before nonviolent conversation became popular in America. Dot Aung San to cheese Principal Advisor, not her meditation teacher alone, the late venerable Seta, ooh Pandita, who was the successor to my preceptor as a monk Mahasi say at all. He quietly introduced the NLD leadership and those associated with those leaders to the architecture. Bear with me here, the sonic auditory architecture, of nonviolent communication. It's not just the use of words. Its tonality. Its spatial. It's about timing. It's about body language, it's about choice of words. It's about your relationship to motivation, and to outcome and about 10 to 20. Other variations or nuances that he talked about, that were connected to the auditory revolutionary power of language as a means of revolution to challenge male, toxic, totalitarian or dictatorial violent patriarchy. Very, very, very few people know what I just said, came from a source. The late venerable Saito Pandita. He was a master of communication. And he taught the people of the NLD, including the Aung San su chi, the art of non violent speech. If you listen to her lectures, I was there for every one of them. When she was released, we have them on tape. I've interviewed her numerous times. I've interviewed numerous of her colleagues, if you could study the language of their communication, and if I pointed out out with a PowerPoint, how it comes back to something that they've learned either through say to Pandita, or someone connected to him, you would see that there is a discernible program that those words fit into. That is called the power of nonviolent revolution, through the use of conscientious language, tonality, timing, space at apology, syntax, meaning, and non attachment to outcome, and the purity of motivation. How few of us that are close here. How few of us can really say, I know what I'm saying in my heart, because I know the texture of it is truthful. How many people are driven by I know what I'm saying to be true, only to be revealed, as self deceptive. This is what I'm going to get into if we want to get into the power of reconciliation in action was one adult Aung San su chi whose favorite phrases, not just about reconciliation, shaking hands, and let's get on with our differences. Let's learn from each other. How not to do this again. Let's learn how not to have our family or daughter or uncle's daughter gang raped by indoctrinated soldiers, no one wants that to happen to their daughter. Let's learn how to decode our culture from that, after all, we espouse to be Buddhist predominantly, we have all the other religions and all the other ethnicities, we have an incredible opportunity to show the world the power of diverse ethnicities and languages and religions and philosophies all under one government called democracy, how we learned to coexist through the power of feminine inspired communication as the basis of universal human rights and democracy, justice, unity and freedom. That's where I come from when I speak about dot Aung San su chi, as feminine inspired, but I could go on about it. But this isn't the place to do that.

Brad  57:15

A fascinating way to look at this and a little bit later, when we talk about the last component of the book. I want to sort of look at the theological aspects of the military's mentality. And again, I think this theme of femininity or more importantly, the theme of misogyny is going to come up again, because that is very deeply into woven into the fabric of military identity. But before we stampede into that, let's transition to the second part of the book. So I understand the second part of the book was not written by you personally, was it?

Alan Clements  57:53

What are the components of the book in brief? So we've talked about the first section to be that of a pretty masterful presentation of an interview with the Aung San su chi, over about seven years, from material gathered in the public domain, and footnoted, specifically to the date the interviewers and the media source with questions that we posed, that she answered, based on those interviews that were transcribed or collected. The second, third, and fourth and fifth part of the book, it could be said it's only three parts, but to break it into the more nuanced five parts. The second part is an interview that I did with my colleague and co author Fergus Harlow, who I consider to be just just a radically nuanced student of fascism, totalitarianism, indoctrination, Mind Control, misinformation, democracy revolution, specifically to Burma, as well as during World War Two. He's a very rare savant in those areas that for some reason today, they become global memes, if you will, to try to study. So I interviewed Fergus for the second part of the book. And it's a fascinating discussion about his research, his insights, his understanding, as they relate to the politics of Burma to the psychology of totalitarianism, and specifically to why the world possibly did what they did. In the corporate media to Dong Sun Tzu Chi and some very difficult questions about the Rakhine crisis I did not play into being his colleague I played into being very adversarial at times. To get the best of him. That's the second part of the book, an interview with Fergus Harlow, and I can't wait for him to be on this program. The third part is the letter that I brought up to Ming online. The former general of Burma's Summit, which I have now labeled the world's leading criminal terrorist organization by the acronym ma Ming online ma H. Sac State Administration Council must sack like Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge or bin Laden's you know, whatever his idiot group was, but Ming onlines moss sack I wrote a letter to him, because I was encouraged when I got involved in Burmese politics. Alan, when you talk in the media, when you write, I would encourage you, this is this is the words of dogs on to cheap, by the way, and say to coupon DITA and Otunnu and Gucci, mung, and who entertain and many others. I want you to see that person in the room with you. And you say things that you would say only if you would say to them in person. Until I said I can't I can't be an AP too although in the letter I asked him Sir, Please invite me to Naypyidaw, I will risk being there to do a book of conversations with you called Conversations with Ming online. The former dictator of Myanmar Okay, that's the basis of the letter. The essence or the soul of the letter in one minute, is based upon what many I would call classical or classical Tera Vaada and Buddhists, both in Burma and around the world would know is the discourse of the SUTA. About ungodly Mala. primarily known as the foremost serial killer at the time of the Buddha coupled with the most famous emperor, or political leader ever in the history of Buddhism from the inception 20 622 years ago, to today, King Ashoka in ancient India. These two men that one suit to the ungodly Mala and King Ashoka are the basis of the letter to being online and they both have to deal with one concept. The, the, the beauty if you will, I say that very relatively, the beauty of redemption, meaning that I through my radical self honesty, see inside of myself, the Burmese Buddhist know these words, history and orthopod conscious shame, conscious reflection. Oh, what I've done what I've said what I've thought, has harmed someone, I cringe in conscience that I've done that I want to seek restitution, I want to apologize I want to make good on my fault. Redemption. Me online, espouses to be a classical, highly Orthodox, meditating Buddhist, who cites Buddha suitors who frequents the company of leading Buddhist monks. And so I'm bringing to Him one of the simplest and clearest and most powerful of the Buddha's discourses called the ungodly Mala suta, where Ongole Mala wants to kill the Buddha. The Buddha here is analogous with the people of Burma, the democracy people of Burma, and the Buddha. Since his ungodly Mala coming up from behind him, and on ghuli Mala says to the Buddha stop. And the Buddha turns around and looks at him and says, I have stopped on guli Mala. It's you who have not stopped. And that's exactly what I've said to me online. Stop your tyranny. I have stopped Dong since she stopped. The 12,000 political prisoners that are being tortured and raped and starved to death right now have stopped. They haven't stopped their dignity. They haven't stopped their revolution. They haven't stopped their conscience, but they've stopped their violence towards you. It's you, sir of who hasn't stopped with your jets with your drones with your bombs, with your rape with your bird. earnings with your lies. And so I'm asking me online to follow the discourse of the Buddha, in line with Ongole. Mala, you have redemption in your hands. And I would invite you, sir, to read my letter. And to feel it in your core of conscience in your history in your Oh tapah the action of reconciliation right now, you can win the Nobel Peace Prize. And if you want me to come to an AP door to do a book of conversations with you, I will risk going there. And I will tape our conversations in print every word verbatim, that you say in a book, conversations with me online, the former dictator of Burma. But without that, what I suggest, call your people in all the various prison camps, labor camps around the country and free every political prisoner right now. Show the world and your people that you mean business. My leadership is built on redemption on truth telling, on conscience, on freedom, on democracy, on fair play on unity. All throughout the country with every ethnicity free, the people who are the most persecuted the prisoners of conscience free dogs and to cheat free the president. Free every ethnic leader. Put down your gun right now. Show us the power of your respect for Dhamma by being the embodiment of ungodly Mala, who then stopped ordain ordained, and it said in the classical Buddhist texts, Soon thereafter, became fully enlightened. eradicated, anger eradicated Loba eradicated Mohawk ignorance. Wow. And I guarantee you, if Ming online does this, I can't guarantee that's very arrogant of me to say, but I would suggest that Ming online if you were to just simply to call off and free the political prisoners, and free dongs and to cheat and tell your soldiers to stop shooting. You will be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize you will show the world you will show Putin you will show the president of Ukraine you will show Zhi Jing ping, you will show the entire world that there is a different way to fight, then through killing its feminine inspired reconciliation, a new form of democracy is birth on the planet in an instant. And Ming online holds the key in his heart at this very moment, if his wife would look at him and say, Sir, Mr. Clements has the point. He speaks for a lot of people. Free those political prisoners free doll Aung San su chi, get on national television and say to the people of our country, stop shooting in the name of the thermadata I want to call to Naypyidaw, a council from around the world and talk about what reconciliation unity looks like in a civilized mediated way. Okay, so that's point two. That's the third part of the book The letter to me online. And King Ashoka now, by the way, was the greatest torture in Indian history. And he went to one of his torture centers to go there to indulge his evil toxicity. And he vomited. He had an awakening. He had her moment of redemption. And he became the greatest king in all throughout Buddhist history. And he spread Buddhism throughout the world with his children. And he's known today as the greatest Buddhist King that ever lived, but few people know that he killed close to 10 million people and committed torture and evil beyond recognition. And what happened in that camp in insane prison? What way way way back in a third century AD, he saw someone being raped or tortured, and he vomited. Ming online, vomit purge your Mohawk up? Your wife will clean up the mess and tell the people I am sorry. I have made a grave error. Call the International Court in the Hague and say I will be on the first plane to The Hague. I want to show an example to the world What redemption looks like when someone in a Leading Role makes a mistake. I want to be held accountable, do what you must do to show the world never again, do evil the way that I've done evil. That's the third part of the book. The last two parts in one minute, a brilliant letter written by a enormously eloquent Buddhist monk from Tibet to Aung San su chi, talking about toxic patriarchy and neocolonialism and the power of the feminine and how the world got it wrong around the Rohingya crisis. This is one of the most prominent Tibetan Buddhist teachers in the world, parallel to the Dalai Lama, telling the world every leader telling United Nations telling the New York Times you got it wrong, here's how you got it wrong. It's in our book. And the last part is simple, the most important political events that have happened in the last five years so you can briefly find out when the military coup d'etat took place when Dong Sun Tzu Chi was put under hard labor, when Zia foul was executed. And CO Jimmy was executed, executed. Enough Ming online. Mr. Biden, United Nations Security Council is using ping. Call Ming online, call him out. Invite leaders around the world women men, artists, dictators, actors, military, generals, teachers, anyone you want on your side, may online and anyone we want on the democracy side, let us come together and Naypyidaw. Let's come for one month for two months and film it worldwide. And let's have what's called the wisdom of a radical revolution of reconciliation to language, not violence, and war. And let's show what the world looks like to have a feminine inspired dialogue where the power the power of dosa driven, anger driven rage, the fury of my rage right now is not violent. It's passion. It's filled with meta. It's filled with love. That it's okay, it's appropriate to be outraged in the name of freedom. But I refuse to kill right now. Take the guns down. The people of Burma do not want to fight a defensive war, but they're compelled to in conscience. And if I were there, I would take up the gun myself. But I'm not. In the In the meanwhile, redemption is in your hand. Call that summit. Bring in mediators. In you will see the people of Burma, the thud Muda. And being online, you will win the Nobel Peace Prize and show the world a way beyond violence and tanks and nuclear war and global destruction. You have that gift of being the next King Ashoka.

Brad  1:13:37

So you've said something right there. That I think is quite I hesitate to say shocking but it is definitely worth examining. You have been previously an ordained monk. And yet, while we've heard other Buddhist monks talking about the parable of Malaguti, the wild elephant that was that was sent to kill the Buddha and the Buddha overcomes navigating with the power of metta as as a lesson to say that violence is not appropriate even in this context where the military is as you correctly point out, murdering and torturing and raping and burning down with impunity. You You seem to take a much more pragmatic position you seem to be saying that taking up arms and practicing violence can be justified and can be necessary given given appropriate circumstances. So would you say this is in line with with Buddhist teaching?

Alan Clements  1:14:48

It's in line with with with with what I call logical wisdom driven conscience and compassion and more Elodie in ethical wisdom in the context of a world, a planet with the dualities of genocide, ethnic cleansing and rape and murder and torture. I am not a black and white Buddhist, someone trying to rape my daughter, I will take their throat out of their body. And I would fight till the death in Burma. If I were in Burma, and I was any one of those ethnic minorities right now or majorities, I would take up to weapon in defensive position to take out the evil dictator, and anyone associated with him. And I would just pray, there was someone in the world that was saying what I'm saying as well. And that leaders around the world would listen, including the United Nations Security Council. I pray that this tape goes to everyone in the United Nations and every leader in the world and every media source in the world and every member of Congress and send it in my country and study it and listen to it. And tell me I'm a buffoon. I am an idiot and idealogue. But yes, I would prefer a dialogue in Naypyidaw tomorrow, in the absence of that, say it very directly, very directly. I've said it many, many times. Me online, if you do not see sure evil, I call upon my President Biden, to send a nuclear attack aircraft carrier to the Bay have been gone. And with a specific type of drone, enter your mansion in Napi door and take you out like they did the leader of al Qaeda. Just like Benjamin Netanyahu, targeted assassination, if you don't want to hear redemption, that is your future. And anyone who does not act in accordance with that is complicit right now, with mass murder. I would have said the same thing about Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, bin Laden. And I'm saying it about me online. I'm saying it with ethical, sila driven truth telling composure. My voice is strong. But my conscience is quiet. Because it's indignity. The people of Burma, the people of the planet are my family. And there's a violator and I refuse to watch violation and justify it through inaction. We've had enough inaction in Burma now. Over the United Nations Security Council is declaration was terse, it's not even remotely close enough. Call for redemption. Call for the wisdom of dialogue. leaders around the world AZ on demand that Ming online, bring 50 100 200 500 people to Naypyidaw and let us in on the dialogue, Sir, you have the first day tell us the wisdom of tyranny. Why are you killing the people? Tell the world why you're doing that. And let us listen. Let the world hear what's in your heart. Let us learn from you. And then you sit down and let us talk. And then you have your rebuttal. We have our rebuttal. And after two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, five weeks, it could very well be that the Dalai Lama and Zhi Jing ping, shake hands, because I would want them there. And don't Aung San su chi is there in holds hands with me online and says Thank you, sir, for the moral courage to rise up like King Ashoka. He has it. I am saying this, I am not a president. I am not a prime minister. I'm not a member of United Nations. But these words are words of feminine inspired revolution that I have had the grace to acquire from the good people of Burma. I am a student of revolution. And what I'm saying 98% of it comes from my education on the ground with the diverse ethnic groups and the democracy movement and the political prisoners that I've spent since 1988, studying earnestly along with my adjunct study of meditation and mindfulness in Buddhism, and the mixture of that in Burmese culture, but what I'm saying is coming out of the country of Burma And that's the gift that Burma offers the world. I'm not speaking as an outsider trying to, you know, put a white man's cover on this crisis. If someone were to ask me, What do you think Aung San su chi would say, if she had the microphone right now? I dare say it, I think she would say exactly what I'm saying.

Brad  1:20:21

So I just wonder what is your position then? On meta because you're you're not leaving a whole lot of room here for compromise like its forces required? Because force has been brought to the table. Do you believe that meta can be used to overcome violent force? Or is it too late for that?

Alan Clements  1:20:45

I think it's down to the individual's personal respect for her or his own conscience that they make decisions based upon what's true and right. For them. It's not my right to talk about the universality of the state of consciousness has been a political weapon and its effectiveness. It's the right of the individual to choose what they want in their body, but they want to emote out of their mind. But for me, the fury of metta to me includes getting in his grill. If I were his wife, I'd be so unthinkably embarrassed to be in a room with you, dude. Your actions are so shameful. I don't know how you could sleep at night, except being under the label of a pathological psychopath, which I hate to say. My meta to you, this is as rad as I'll get. But I do it because I'm often on stages as a satirist or a comedian. I wouldn't use a gun with me online. I would use the power of conscience. Invite me to Napi dosser. Talk to me. Put me in chains. I won't harm you. Talk to me film it. Let's talk about it. I want to I want to understand the machinations of how you think I've never interviewed a bonafide terrorist. Tell me how you're not a terrorist. Tell me how you're so traumatized because of the British occupation of my own country. And your historical trauma is so deeply embedded in, in my own psyche that I recently had a Western psychiatrists come to me and tell me that everything that I'm doing, I'm playing out because of the white man's oppression for 124 years. In three wars in World War Two, my country is saturated in the white man's oppression. Alan, do you not understand that I am living through trauma? Okay, me online tell me that. That is wildly beautiful. I'm right there with you, dude. But just if you don't mind, like, release the political prisoners and stop raping the girls and burning villages while we talk about it. Okay, just I'm really down with your insights about the nature of the psyche. My meta would be that level of intensity. But if you wanted me to go further, personally, I think the guy needs a high dose of Stanley Kubrick's Clockwork Orange I think he's a bonafide sociopath that needs whatever the most transformational mind expanding molecules are that can be put into his bloodstream, along with the most spectacular music that turns his spirit into the wild jungle of beauty. And he sees visions of girls and boys all throughout the country in his mind's eye through artificial intelligence that are being burned and raped and banned, netted, and, and and massacred and he can't close his eyes because they're wired wide open. Let's have a moment of global meta for that being the outer reaches of non violent intervention to prevent a fucking genocide. Enough is enough. I wrote a book in 1990 called Burma the next killing fields for months in those ethnic minority areas watching massacres that change my life. What happened in Rakhine State has been happening all throughout the fucking country. The ethnics are outraged. We're all outraged and mning online you have it in your hands. rarest of opportunities called redemption. Buddhism is a remarkable transformational theology. King Ashoka read about him, he had a moment of redemption. Read about Jesus in the Bible. Redemption is the purest, most radical, feminine inspired molecule in this god. Well, I want to say goddess or God lessness that we're embedded. That is the closest that I can see. To metta redemption, redemption in action. But am I going to go to Naypyidaw under false pretenses. And Mr. Clements, we can't wait to start our book of conversations. And for some reason, I've got some kind of hidden weapon in my, under my skin like a neural link from you know, who knows? And then take his life out? No, no, no, but I'll tell you I am. If I were anywhere near him, anyone who thought of him as a friend or an ally, I would be so in his grill. You're humiliated and you're ruining. for time immemorial, the image of our beloved Burma. Ming online, you're captured. You're a captive of a psychosis. Open your mouth, put this clockwork orange in it, tie yourself down. Let's purge. You have this evil gene. Someone's got to do it. What else do you do keep giving weapons to the thermadata until there's no more democracy movement, until there's no more Burma to save. I said this in my last book. The Dalai Lama said 35 years ago, if we don't act on my country of Tibet in the next 10 years, there'll be no Tibet to save. Well, guess what? If we don't act in the next few minutes, there'll be no Burma to save. Ming online is out of control. He's a raging psycho forest fire being weaponized by Putin. And by Zhi Jing ping, that's called unlimited killing power. He's got all the oil, he's got the money. He's got the slaves. He's got the power. He's got the loot. He's got the crypto currency. He's got the terror. But the people are basically saying this time, guess what? There is no future with you, dude. There's no country that's going to take you. There is one solution. If you listen to Mr. Clements and bring them to Naypyidaw, you have a book of conversations about redemption. Or you unlock those prisons today and show us in action, what it means to have a moment of compassion. And then we'll take you seriously. Otherwise, we're coming after you, dude. We're coming after you the whole world. The whole world should come after him. Just to show what it really means to care about a country that wants to play fair, Burma wants to play fair, the birth of democracy in that country, with diversity with all the religions with all the different languages, with all the resources, all people are equal. Burma is the example of universal human rights, one of the gravest evils, oppressing the nation right now. And we have a chance to intervene, to show the future of life and opportunity of how to stop the murder of democracy. And that's what's happened in Burma. They're murdering anyone who even uses the word. The thought talk about Orwellian. The guy is a psychopath. But I prefer to take him out. If there were people near him, and I'll end with this. I'm sure just like just like a when used to have eight different black limousines lined up outside of his mansion on inland lake, and no one knew what he would get into because of fear of being, you know, poisoned. MailOnline is terrified. Probably even by the state of his wife. He can't trust anyone at this point. Because no one in the world who has an ounce of conscience finds him plausible. He's gone from leader to general to terrorist. I'm sorry, dude. The game is up. There is no future for you. Except the Nobel Peace Prize. The US or your own voluntary flight to the Hague in do what they did with the leaders of the Bosnian crisis, and take your karmic do so that the children can see and be inspired by what a man looks like when he does wrong. And he makes good on that wrong. Give the kids a chance to be inspired. That's your only hope. On guli. Mala. Go ordain with your monk of choice. If you're still thinking about what you need to do. But unleash all the prisoners and call off the war. go meditate for a month and have me at Naypyidaw bring all the people there. Let's talk about it. That's my message to you, sir. A practical solution. Shave your head, close your eyes, look inside with a good Sati Putana the personal meditation teacher that will hold you accountable to what you see inside of your heart.

Brad  1:31:08

So what do you think is the actual chance of that? I mean, you clearly believe in redemption. You you you've brought up Angola Mala multiple times you you clearly believe in the capacity of an individual no matter how evil to see the error of their ways. But in the case of mineral line, and psychosis, that is evident and and just the the the hunger for power and the obsession with the subjugation of anyone he views as lesser. Do you think there is any chance that he's going to have a change of heart that he's going to have an epiphany?

Alan Clements  1:31:47

I absolutely do believe in the possibility. Because I do believe we are in a benevolent universe where the core of it the soul of it, the or not to have it the Dhamma of it. The wisdom of it, the matrix of it is beautiful, feminine, inspired unity. Peaceful, soulful, just and and what could he do? Very, very simple as a start. He has nothing to lose everything in the world to gain. Invite Alan Clemens to Naypyidaw to sit there for a month in a small little guest room, video cameras, with your people all around us. And I'll trust you. And let us have a heart to heart set of conversations. And let the world in on how you think based upon someone who loves your country and your people. I don't want to say equal to you, more than you. I'm not killing them. I'm loving them. And I'm loving you, sir. I'm saying I want to talk with you. I don't want to kill you. I want you to talk with me. Why me? I was a former monk in your country. I'm an American. I've studied democracy. I'm educated. I've met all of the leaders in your country, including many of the military. I met Otunnu, who was the general under tonch way, excuse me under a when I met many military men, colonels and generals who are friends of yours. I love Myanmar. And the world will listen to us. Because I've done a lot of books of interviews with the leaders of your country, other than you. You have a chancer to tell the world, your story. And I really do believe Call it what you will. You can have all the advanced money. There'll be no editorial control every word we exactly what you said. Just let me ask the questions that I want. And have what I say printed as I say it in give me the chance to come into your country fearlessly and leave without harm. And let us bring your voice to the world. Let's call it conversations with Ming online Burma's former dictator and that to me is my gift to you, sir. That to me is your gift to the world. That's the gift to the generations of people in your country. Otherwise, they're going to be armed by people who care. Every ethnic group in the country will be fully armed within six months to eight months to two months to a year. And you know where they're coming. They're coming to Navy door I'm not trying to threaten you, it's just obvious. You have put yourself into a no win situation, other than what I am offering you. And you think I'm a fool, or you think the world is a fool, or that it doesn't really matter, sir. Talk to your wife, talk to your handlers, talk to the leading monks in the country and ask them the efficacy of what Mr. Clemens is offering you. And take their advice and see what they tell you see what they say to you, in relationship to this open hearted offer of a dialogue of conversations with you, sir, as the first start, to end this conflict, and to restore Burma to the radiant democratic gem that it has, that its potential is there and give the people a reprieve from the madness of this tyranny in this trauma, and even your own soldiers who are just probably ready to turn on you in a dime. They're so sickened by shooting and maiming and raping and killing their own people in the ethnic minorities. They're holding back so much dosa, in the name of this indoctrination, and will only hold for so much longer, sir, until there is no future that you have to study the history of Romania. Ceausescu stood in front of everyone, listen to me. And where did he end up? Sir, your days are numbered. And you are being offered a very elegant Dhamma inspired opportunity to elevate, to rectify, to heal, and to bring in a new form of democracy that the world has never seen before. In nonviolent ways, it's in your hands, you will win the Nobel Peace Prize, you'll have a book around the world, you'll be a name, a household name. That man do you know of him. He was a dictator, he was a terrorist. He transformed through compensation to the power of dogma. And if that doesn't work for you, find a good meditation teacher in your own country. And trust me, I was one very difficult yogi. Go sit for three months in silence at the Mahasi satin kicked in Rangoon, under really qualified but passing a teacher. And follow the instructions carefully, sir. Watch your mind. Watch each of the cheetah seekers. Watch the sensations in your body. Every breath come and go could view your first and your last. And your conscience will slowly rise to the surface. And you'll start to cry. Just like Ongole. Mala did, and you'll fall over in tears. And you'll go How could I have done this? How could I have done this? And then you'll ask yourself, What can I do to make this wrong, right? And you will do exactly what your conscience tells you. You will free every political prisoner and you'll basically tell the entire country, I will do exactly what you wish to have done to me. I want my country restored on the terms of integrity, not my authoritarianism. Do it. Ask your wife ask your friends. But do it now. And stop killing. I'm ready to take a ticket tomorrow to be there, if you wish to have me.

Brad  1:38:51

So you've spoken in very clear theological terms here you you speak about the values of meditation you speak about those or you speak about the Dhamma. And you've mentioned I mean, our line paints himself as a devoted and pious Buddhist. But here's the thing that the contrast between the image that these guys have and the monks that they surround themselves with, and the obvious evil of the actions that they carry out it it leads us to try to examine the military's perspective on Buddhism and perspective on religion like they clearly hate people who are not Buddhist, because they go out of their way to murder them. But their own interpretation of Buddhism is one which is seemingly filled with ancient pre Buddhist superstitions. This obsession with numerology, this this indoctrinated misogyny, that the fear of of menstruation, the fear of women's clothing, the fear of femininity, like are they even talking about Buddhism in the same terms that you're talking about it is it doesn't even make sense for you to speak about Buddhism and for the military to speak about Buddhism or are you just talking to different languages?

Alan Clements  1:40:11

No, no, I listen, my teachers were considered some of the most respected finest Buddhist masters in modernity. In Myanmar. Mahasi Sayadaw, one of the two leaders of the six great Buddhist Council, brought forth by the former prime minister who knew his successor say to Pandita Saito Jonica, said Oh, Sujata said it was Elena. I could go on and on and on. These are the same Buddhists. I'm not going to name other names of people he associates with I don't want to bring their names into this dialogue. But the Buddhism that I'm talking about, to me, is not some aberrant American diversion from Dharma, as it's found in classical Tera, Vaada and Pali I spent 35 years immersed in Dima and in revolution and in the saturation of my heart, in the culture of Burma, not just Burmese Buddhists. I've been all throughout the country. I'm a strong follower of Christianity. I've been to all the Islamic countries, my family comes from Lebanon and Syria, Ming online is captured by a delusion an illusion, it's a psychological issue. It's not a theological Dhamma issue. Why this is happening? Why does psychosis happen? I could go on and on and on about that. It's very difficult to understand the mind. That is without conscience. It's very rare to study the mind of a serial killer. I once met the chief psychiatrist on a flight from California to Hawaii, who was at the one of the maximum security prisons in California, with those who only had done the most egregious crimes against other life and put into these solitary confinement, horror holes. And I asked him, Do you ever see redemption among these people? He said, Alan, oddly, strangely, sadly, they often shake the bars until they die as victims of society. That's why I'm inviting me online. Talk to me. No one's talking to him. I think that the absence of the feminine inspired dialogue, people are afraid to talk in Burma, to the elders to the monks to the hierarchy. To the Buddha, there's too much obedience and where that came from toxic white oppressive patriarchy. It gets right back to the 124 years of white imperialism. From from way back in 1812, when, when Burma was plucked, taken stolen the Ruby of Asia brought to Downing Street given to the Queen and 15 million people in Burma, subsequently subjected to the white man's domination, the wars, the traumas, I can understand the horror that Ming online, has generationally grown up with under tonch way in the monastery. We didn't just talk about watching our breath. I was a very close friend of Prime Minister and his daughters who knew was an amazing man. I lived in his room in the monastery built for him to look at Burma today without looking into the influence the trauma of imperialism and patriarchy and, and white male authoritarian indoctrination. You just can't look at Israel without taking into account Nazi Germany. I'm not trying to equate England's imperialistic, genocidal, 124 year occupation, to the Holocaust. But it's pretty terrible. What happened in Burma? And I understand Ming online. Part of the dilemma of having been a monk and I'm a real slow learner. I'm extremely arrogant at times. is it's so hard to be accountable to the ways you lie to yourself. To the ways you've been conditioned to your belief systems, to your obedience to false structure of authority that you call justice in unity and fair play, that turned out to be totalitarian, dictatorial, and torturous, not only mislabeled misidentified, where did that kind of torturous conditioning come from? I'm not blaming it on England. But wherever the white man went, they did so at the expense of the indigenous people. It's well documented to calculated acts of mass murder or genocide or rape. But, but, but, but as the Buddha said, there's no first cause to Dukkha suffering. You can't find someone to place the blame on thus, the power of ungodly Mala, the power of redemption, I asked Aung San su chi back in the day, all these same questions that we're talking about today about the influence of the British the influence of the trauma of unrecognized and an undiscovered and investigated trauma. Now, Alan isn't the time for us to look into those. There will be a time when the healing can take place. And maybe she was wrong, maybe that we needed to bring in 10,000 psychologists to Burma from around the world, from every country, to listen just to listen to the people and to bestow upon the people money and service and food and water, and help and service. And to help alleviate that. That 125 year long, toxic patriarchal blanket of horror upon the indigenous population of Burma. Three, four or 5000 years of recorded history, I don't know exactly. So me online I, I have compassion for you, sir. And I have a solution. But I feel very, very uncomfortable with going to sleep yet again another night, and knowing that anyone in this world has been raped or murdered. I dedicated my life when I became a monk, although I was so now disrobed to end the violence in my own being. That to me is the core tenant of dharma and Buddhism. What do you teach? The Buddha was asked the end of violence, to self, the end of suffering to self in other, the end of dosa, Loba, and Mohawk greed, anger and delusion. That made sense to me. And that, to me cannot be debated. Either you live it, or you lie about it. In your actions, tell the story. Are we deluded at times, by our behaviors? By our words, by our thoughts, by our psychologies by our memories, absolutely. But Enough is enough. And enough, people have been tortured and raped and murdered, and bombed and persecuted now, where the game is up, dude. You're in a corner, draw upon your own Dhamma your own Buddhism, and look to your conscience and say, you know, I'm going to be the first to call off the war. I'm going to put down the gun. But he can't do that. You know why? Because he's crossed the line. And the ethnic minorities all around the country now are the majority. They are the people. Burma is no longer ethnic minorities. We are the people. And he knows that. And there is no turning back and said, the guy's in a corner. He's terrified. And the only way a terrified insecure male acts is to increase the very thing that they should stop doing which is to stop terrorizing, in the name of your own unrecognized trauma, your own fear your own greed, and that's why I'm offering this very unusual solution. The monks are not offering the solution. They're not even offering him come meditate for three months. We don't want your Dona we don't want your flowers. We don't want your food. We don't want your needing to be chanted to we don't want your faux five precepts. We don't want anything from you. We want you to basically live by the five precepts, meditate and stop persecuting people. Whether they be from Shan State mon state Rakhine State, Korean state Qin state, whatever state Stop and show that you really are a respectable Buddhist. From there there's possibility and if he needs help with this, I'm sorry to go on about this. But my heart is broken. Bring me to Naypyidaw make your case, sir. Tell me to my face. Alan Clements, you white man, you persecuted. You committed genocide on your own American indigenous people. You could give a shit about them. And you tell me that I should care about what's going on in my country based upon what your people did to my people. At least we're talking about it. And that to me would be the first turning call it of the feminine in political dynamic action, I would say in the world at a global level, talking about the trauma, talking about the evil, talking about the horrors of colonial oppression, talking about World War Two, talking about Japanese fascism, talking about kamikazes talking about the women who came from India, who were Hindus who blew up their bodies in Sri Lanka. They weren't Muslims. They were Hindus. The Japanese Fascists were Buddhist. They were nationalist who flew those airplanes into aircraft carriers in battleships. They weren't Muslims. Ming online. Be a leader born from redemption. Study, King Ashoka Seder. Ooh, Pandita, one of the leading meditation masters in modern times, aspired talked about honored the power of redemption within the King Ashoka metaphor as what Burma needs in their own leadership. He talked to Dr. Aung San su chi about that. And he talked to you about it, sir, in the book, wisdom for the world, and mindful advice to my own people, I asked him questions that were directed to you. Exactly. The same in the book, Aung San su chi from prison, and a letter to a dictator. This time I wrote a letter right to you, sir. You have a chance to show the world and go down in history. The power of dama redemption. That is rockin that is rad. That is incredible. And it may very well be in the war in Ukraine in Russia, it may end the war in Saudi Arabia and your men, it may end the wars around the world. It's possible it may send a ripple of fo ethical inspiration to see the world's leading terrorist. Oh my god. How did that happen? Let's study the machinations of what went on in those conversations. Study Ooh, pon Ditas language of non violence. Secondly, study his language of reconciliation. Thirdly, study his language of healing. Fourth, study his language of coexistence. Fifth, study his language, of unification with differences. And then six study the wisdom of illuminating the first five, with the highest aspirations of an individual, manifesting her in his own unique expression of freedom. The oxygen of civilized society, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the most abused doctrine on planet Earth. Three pages, sir, you're wrong. I'm right. And together, both of us are right. Bring me to Naypyidaw. And let's talk about it and release these political prisoners right now. Please. Call all the prison guards. Release them. Give them food, give them money, give them medicine, help their families released Aung San su chi and tell your soldiers stop. I know it's a habit right now. Stop. Put the gun down. Please go home. Extra pay and chill and play He's ask the whole country's ethnic armed groups fighting in a defensive war, please, I beg of you, just two weeks, two weeks, stay back, let me feel this. I'm listening to Mr. Clements his dialogue here, I want to let it in, please give me two weeks to feel this. Please, please, please don't shoot, to stop. I want to feel the wisdom, of calling off violence, I want to return to the sanctity of the reason why I call myself a practicing Buddhist Ahimsa, the power of non violence.

Brad  1:55:42

So we focused heavily on men aligning himself for quite a bit here. But I think it'd be useful to take this back to the broader global context. The international community is watching but the international community's not really taking all that much action. Let's be completely honest. So outside of this, this concept of MENA lines, mentality and spirituality. What do you think? Is the role for the international community? Because you seem to be very conscious of the of the politics of outsiders getting involved in situations that are not their own, and that they don't fully understand and the role that colonialism has played in in the problems in Myanmar? Do you see a call for Western powers to intervene once again, in Myanmar? Or do you think that they should be playing a secondary role and propping up internal forces?

Alan Clements  1:56:35

Well, my insight is same. Thank you for the question. My outer insight is saying, Wow, what a challenging question. For fear of sounding contradictory. I stand on what I just said, for the last two hours, on my personal remedy approach to resolving next stage possible solution to the circumstances that we see in Myanmar. With that said, with that said, I'm just imagining if I were in a position of presidential Prime Minister, United Nations power, I think what I would do, which I've actually said publicly many times, is, I think I would swing one of those seven nuclear powered US aircraft carriers, off the coast of Taiwan in the South China Sea, I'd swing one of them into the Bay of Bengal. And I would probably with the jets on deck, put three fingers up to show solidarity with the people on where I stand as an American leader, in give him one month to consider my ultimatum and keep it really simple. Stop or face the consequences. That's what number one what I would do. If I were President Biden. Call me an idiot. Call me a fool call me a dreamer do anything you want. Stop wasting all that fuel with seven of them in the South China Sea and threatening Zhi Jing ping, stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it, stop Mr. Biden, send one nuclear aircraft carrier to the Bay of Bengal and show those 50 million people of Burma right now undergoing democratic genocide. Solidarity with the three fingers that we stand with you democracy movement, we stand with you ethnic minorities, majority. And tell Mr. mning online. Listen, dude, I know that you think you know, I know that you think you're the leader. I know that you think you're right. We all make mistakes. But I'm giving you 30 days to think it through or face the consequences. And I'm not going to tell you what the consequences are. But you can see through my actions where I stand. And if you're wondering what I might do, just go back to Kabul and look at the footage of bin Laden successor. I'm very adept at removing someone without harming one civilian. Oh, oh, Alan, are you advocating targeted assassination? Yeah. I'm a leader. You're asking me a leadership question. I'm stretching way out of my skin to say that. But if I were a leader, I were in the Oval Office. You be hard pressed to tell me not to do that. And to think that I would actually listen and not do that, and to show some spine and show some regard. And then you know, Mr. Zhi Jing ping, I think you should, like, release all those activists and Democratic leaders in Hong Kong that have disappeared and show some spine to Zhi Jing ping, and say, Dude, we're a democracy, you're a totalitarian dictatorship. There is a distinction. It we're showing that the divide is in between Taiwan in you. It's called democracy and totalitarianism. And I just kind of like the wisdom of pause, and let them reflect upon. Whoa, whoa, Mr. Biden has gained some stealth, moral power. And I think that's what sadly lacking right now is, is ethical power within all forms of leadership. And so these questions sound almost like absurd. And the answer sounds like like a summoned, unhinged, to even say these things when they're so obvious. We've divorced ourselves from each other so sufficiently, that we're willing to tolerate genocides, murders, ethnic cleansing, and rapes in the name of resources and power and politics. Talk about numb and trauma. If that was within a household, in which in one of the bedrooms, it was someone being forcibly gang raped? No, no, no, come on my electric gang of Thrones man. Don't leave it alone will be psychopaths. And so I take the RDR Artie Lange approach, you know, Insanity is a sane respond to an insane world. And my response is a sane response to insane leadership. That's what I would say Jumping online. If I were President Biden, or global leaders today, where's your moral spine? And secondly, I would say guess what, Mr. Putin? Mr. Zhi Jing ping, yes, yes, yes, we're weaponizing, the war in Ukraine and Russia. But you know, something. We really like Burma because of the power of their democracy, and the diversity of their people and their history, with philosophy in psychology, and agrarianism, and Buddhism. And you know, something, we've adopted mindfulness, even in the military in America. We think Burma is a little bit of a special country to take exception, so we're telling you stop giving them weapons. Okay. Stop, stop. And meanwhile, if you don't mind, returned Tibet, to Tibet, and give the Dalai Lama a place to go back to. We're going to start like being accountable to like ethical politics. It's absurd. I sound like I'm a comedian, Ricky Gervasio, or some other person on a stage where everyone's kind of laughing at the absurdity of how truthful this is, and the stupidity of how no one will act because it's so right. And that's what being insane probably means when you're in a prison. And they're trying to indoctrinate you to do something. That's a lie. But it's so simple. Please stop raping my sister, my mother, my daughter, in the name of any belief system. Let's learn to talk about it. I don't know who else should say it. But there are many women in Burma that I've interviewed in my books, who know the wisdom of let's talk about it. Let's dialogue about it. Let's sit in the same room and listen to one another and learn from one another. I've never seen a more forgiving patient culture and I've traveled the world. For decades, I've read numerous books I'm well studied. Desmond Tutu has blessed some of my books with his endorsement. no future without forgiveness to Epic book he wrote after four years of leading the truth Council in South Africa listening to people who voluntarily came up and talk to the truth counsel, I raped your daughter. And they asked, Why did you do that? And base to pon the answer. They evaluated the person's sincerity, the heartfulness in which they spoke about their redemption, and made judgments and imprisonment accordingly, and some walked free. Based upon the evaluation, we have examples of noble leadership. And so Ming online has in his hands the ungodly Mala possibility. And the whole world could learn a lesson at this epic moment. Just as the 45 scientists in Nobel laureates, called the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, last week, in Chicago, a formation of intellectuals to started post World War Two to evaluate the threats on humanity. They turned what's called the doomsday clock up 10 seconds to 90 seconds before total Planetary Annihilation. And they evaluated the factors on why they chose to add 10 seconds closer to Armageddon. And one of them is the lack of moral guided leadership. And all I'm saying is something so obvious, is to stop killing. Someone's got to stop first. And let's talk about it in Burma. Those ethnic groups, I know many of these leaders, I've been there, I've met with them. I love the country. They've got grievances, you can be sure even with what's gone down post terrorist takeover, I don't want to call it a military coup d'etat terrorist takeover. February what? First 2021 I wouldn't be surprised if me online said hey, listen, man. I'm over my head or whatever he wants to say. I want to call it a peace month, a treaty I want to just back down for a month to reevaluate. I promise I won't regroup. I promise I won't take any money or weapons from Zhi Jing ping or Putin. I just want a breather to reevaluate my ethical environment. I wouldn't be surprised those leaders would say go for it, dude. The chores, you got a month 30 days times, click and 29 days 2827 26. Meanwhile, get Mr. Clements in a pedo and start talking to him and tell us the fuck why you're killing us. In the name of your fucking sociopathy. The days are numbered. And so I don't know what else to say. Except to reincarnate as the next US president and to act this out. In my next birth 3540 years from now after Burma has been desecrated and decimated and then four generations post Gen X in Burma is just one dystopian land. This burning and burning and burning and no one it's uninhabitable is that the future of Burma? That looks like Ming onlines vision, because he can't defeat these defensive forces. It's impossible. He's that perpetual war, and he'll will lose unless he takes the ungodly Mala approach, or the King Ashoka approach. That's why it's so precious. Burma has Burma now is the Ruby of the planet on a spiritual level. Kipling would set up the Ruby of South Asia. Now what's the spiritual Ruby? It's the essence it's the soul of every religion. It's about redemption. Burma holds that Ming online in his hands. If he makes the first move, it releases those people. You can be sure those leaders of those ethnic groups, they're going to go hallelujah. We will give you 30 days, my friend. You've got him. So I don't know what else to say about the world. Cut the money cut the guns. Absolutely. If I were on the ground, and I was a leader, I would say make Burma uninhabitable. When you read Nelson Mandela's book, he made a statement make South Africa uninhabitable. Make the white man's a part time At uninhabitable, I say to the people of Burma, I stand with you, all leaders of the world if you're not going to basically listen to me make meaning online terrorism called dictatorship on governable by all means, disrupt the machinations of his dictatorial madness, and he knows it's coming. How many more assassinations in Rangoon in mon UAH in Moulmein. in Mandalay? Does he need to see with medium to high ranking military people? How many more buildings and malls need to be bombed? How many more monasteries need to be closed? How many more petrol stations need to be burned? How many more farms need to go unharvested? How many more villages need to be razed to the ground and tortured how many more women do we need to see cry are giving birth to babies that die? It's a dystopian madness. We're at the end game. It usually takes a very brave person to morally rise up. To say enough is enough. I've crossed the line enough is enough. I'm going to take I'm going to embrace the archetypal mother. I am the archetypal mother here. I am going to be held accountable. My country is more important than me fucking stayin alive and being right. The world has told me I am wrong. My wife is telling me I'm wrong. My senior advisors and Colonels are telling me I'm wrong. Even my cronies, they don't even want my fucking protection anymore. Because they know that I'm ethically bankrupt. They fear that I'm going to be assassinated with me when I get killed. You're alone, dude. Give it up and redeem yourself. I'm not doing this as a bluff or some kind of moral high ground. I love democracy. I love freedom. I'm going to die soon. You're going to die soon. My daughter is going to be alive and maybe she'll choose to have children. But I want to see freedom, thrive and flourish. In Burma was a gift to me. It saved my life. As learned revolution. I learned Dhamma I learned how to sit and watch my mind. Yes, I'm flawed. I have many problems. Yes, I can lie. Yes, I'm deceptive. But Burma showed me the power of accountability self honesty, karuna, meta mudita, who paikka they showed me the wisdom of the permies. They showed me the power of the feminine doll Aung San su chi taught me, Alan, learn to listen. That is revolution. And learn the power of active compassion. Active metta in a future that's so far reaching, that I may never see democracy even in my lifetime. But sow the seeds every day of your life. Until there are no more life in you. That's the adult Aung San su chi that I remember, in Maine online is trying to murder her because she's MASU. She has the power of being the archetypal feminine embodiment in Burma. Everyone in Burma knows that. The country has risen. Yes, she has faults. Yes, she has flaws. We're not holding her to the perfection model. But she has shown to her own choice making power, how to resolve differences to the feminine and inspired power of metta, karuna, mudita paikka Tanya wisdom inspired language. She showed the world a new form of non violence post Martin Luther King, post, post, post Gandhi. And in probably reinspired, a form of non violence that could be found deep even within Dhamma. If you studied carefully the history of King Ashoka the greatest Buddhist king ever to have lived, who put out dissent to the power of conscientious use of the weapon in defense, as a leader, that your responsibility to Aung San su chi knew that. Ming online you're putting out freedom to Violence, and you're instilling terror and tyranny over democracy and justice. You've got it wrong. That's why it's so archetypal. I think that's why it's so pivotal right now, if only the world could listen to this, this this this interview, and be transcribed and translated and sent worldwide. Not for my sake, please, I will soon die. That for the children of Burma, the children of the world, give democracy a chance to breathe in Burma in a way that democracy has yet to ever breathe. Put down the weapon, and talk and heal and hear about our differences. And move into the future with a new form of freedom, and just keep liberating our freedom. Unless we'll be imprisoned by the very freedom that we deny. Be careful. Be careful of the freedom you call freedom as it's been said, it will imprison you. I think Ming online is imprisoned by the reappropriation of something that he calls freedom. But in fact, it's deception, its denial and its violence. Thus, the Clockwork Orange analogy with Malcolm McDowell, and eyes wide open, he's got to see what he's doing to the people, he should see firsthand what it means for a woman to be raped in insane prison with his wife and his children watching on the same flat screen. He should be forced to watch that over and over and over again, as first stage redemption. To show us how pure and true you really are. To trust you, you got the ungodly Mala. Right. You can trust me, I'm willing to face what I've done in the name of a lie. Anyway, that's, that's, that's my riff. That's my rap. That's my hope. That's my dream. That's my prayer. That's my scream. And I don't apologize for the intensity of it. I wish it were heard. I'm frustrated. I'm upset. But I feel empowered. That you and the folks that you are all associated with and the good people of Burma are doing what you're doing and that you're not alone, that we're in solidarity with you, and that we will stay with you as best as we can. And May May these words be translated as in shared? Debate, talk, bring it into the media. I invite you to invite me to Naypyidaw to the New York Times to CNN, to BBC all the radio stations and TV stations. Tell me I am unhinged. Find out the nuances of my philosophical spiritual beliefs. Ask me what I know what I'm not sharing. I'm honored to talk with you in a non violent way.

Host  2:18:42

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2:21:44

whatever Ira Nanga when Jana daddy we are done under the gun. We got busier and busier. Oh blah yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda But I've got yet another video