Episode #185: From Reconciliation to Resistance
“Alan Clements’ interview on the Insight Myanmar podcast is the best —most inspiring —statement, analysis and conscious solution to the crisis in Burma that I have ever heard. I’m overwhelmed by his insight, wisdom and ethical courage.”
“[The book] is my attempt at reconciliation through instigating a revolution of conscience at this last moment in time, to help support my Dharma family, the people of my country, the people of Burma, all ethnicities, the birthplace of my revolutionary energy, not just my dharma. But I care about democracy. I care about human rights, I care about freedom. I care about revolution in Burma, but it isn't just Burma. For me, Burma is the hope of the planet!”
This is Alan Clements’s third visit to the podcast. His first covered his early meditative years in Burma, and his second discussed his theory of ethical intelligence. In this episode, he talks about his recent book, Burma’s Voices of Freedom in Conversation with Alan Clements: An Ongoing Struggle for Democracy, a four-volume opus consisting of his interviews with “dozens of the country’s most respected and well-known politicians, pro-democracy activists, artists and religious leaders from Burma’s democracy movements” since the 1988 uprising. Clements—meditation teacher, author, human rights activist and performance artist— conducted many of these long-form interviews in secret, as both he and his interview subjects have been targeted by the various iterations of the military regime over the years.
When it comes to contemporary politics in Burma, one of the first questions that many people have concerns Aung Sang Suu Kyi. Like, how could someone who was so intimately associated with the democracy movement—a human rights icon—have become a military apologist during the Rohingya crisis? Clements addresses this question head on, devoting the whole first volume to the words of Aung Sang Suu Kyi herself. He sets it up as one long interview, with the authors writing simple questions, and her “answers” being verbatim quotes pulled from the many hundreds of thousands of words she has spoken publicly on a variety of subjects over a seven-year period; all are cited as to the specific time, context, interviewer, etc. This immense undertaking was done with the help of journalist Fergus Harlow. Clements claims that her actual words disprove many of the narratives that have arisen about her in the Western press since the Rohingya crisis.
Clements emphasizes that first and foremost, her words need to be contextualized within the situation she and her family have been facing vis-à-vis the military for decades, and her many years in and out of house (and prison) arrest. The military has been a threatening, menacing presence for them for decades, which at times has taken a tangible, even violent form. So Clements believes that everything she has said and done must be understood within the reality of the threats she has constantly been under, the delicate dance she has needed to do, and the likely trauma she is processing. While insisting that he is not just a blind follower, that Aung Sang Suu Kyi is by no means a perfect person or politician, he insists that her words over the years have either been misunderstood, twisted or ignored... and even suggests the possibility of an intentional corporate-political campaign against her. He flatly states that her actual words demonstrate that she was not an apologist for the military’s genocidal actions against the Rohingya. In Clements’ view, the situation in Rakhine State before the military’s genocide campaign was complicated, with both sides causing harm. He echoes the government line that the anti-Rohingya violence was precipitated by ARSA (the Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army) attacks on military and police installations (something that investigative reporter Mratt Kyaw Thu discussed in detail in a previous podcast episode). With all this as the backdrop, he points out how, as the country’s leader, Aung San Suu Kyi needed to thread the needle. He describes how she brought in Kofi Annan, the ex-Secretary General of the United Nations, to do a study on the situation in Rakhine state, which to Clements sees as a sign of good faith on her part. He then addresses Aung Sang Suu Kyi’s infamous speech in The Hague (printed verbatim in his book) at the International Court of Justice (ICJ), in which she responds to accusations of genocide in the military’s anti-Rohingya crusade. In his view, her words there show that she was advocating a peaceful solution to the crisis while also vigorously defending her country’s sovereignty.
Clements feels that Aung Sang Suu Kyi has consistently advocated for genuine reconciliation in opposition to violence, patriarchy and division. He recalls how “the power of reconciliation in action” was one of her favorite phrases. He sees this as not just her personal inspiration, but representing something she learned from Sayadaw U Pandita, who he calls “a master of communication.” He describes how the meditation master worked with NLD leaders to understand “the architecture of nonviolent communication,” through the use of tonality, timing, body language, motivation, a commitment to truth, and other factors. If you listen to her lectures through this lens, Clements believes this “architecture” in her messaging becomes evident. At the end of the day, because he sees the West virtually abandoning Aung Sang Suu Kyi while mostly standing by as the Tatmadaw continues to run roughshod over the country, he feels that the result has been, in effect, gifting Burma and its resources to China; he calls Myanmar “the new Tibet.”
Clements’ book has five parts. Following the section on Aung Sang Suu Kyi, the next part of the book is an interview Clements conducted with Harlow, who he believes to be one of the leading experts in fascism, totalitarianism indoctrination and related subjects, both related to World War II and also Burma specifically. Clements describes how he took an adversarial stance in the interview with his co-author, in order to ensure that difficult questions were asked and answered, both about Harlow’s areas of expertise as well as the Rakhine crisis.
The next part of the book is a letter Clements wrote to General Min Aung Hlaing, who initiated the 2021 coup, requesting permission to come to Nay Pyi Daw to interview him. His outreach request is based on the Angulimala Sutta, and the life of King Ashoka. Clements believes that just as Angulimala, the mass murderer, later repented and became a devout follower of the Buddha, Min Aung Hlaing also has the opportunity for redemption if he would just embrace a sense of shame for his and his army’s terrible deeds, and act in ways that foster peace and reconciliation. Noting how Min Aung Hlaing claims to be a devoted, meditating Buddhist, Clements urges him to order the army to put down its weapons, release political prisoners, free Aung San Suu Kyi, and to enact what Clements characterizes as “a Buddhist, non-confrontational resolution.” Clements also tells Min Aung Hlaing in his letter that although Ashoka had been a horrific torturer and had killed millions in his conquests, he came to repent his actions and became the model Buddhist ruler—and that Min Aung Hlaing could do the same.
The fourth section of the book is what Clements describes as a “brilliant” letter written by a very prominent (as yet unnamed) Tibetan Buddhist teacher, addressed to Aung Sang Suu Kyi, that explains how the world got the Rohingya crisis wrong. The final part of the book summarizes important events of the past few years in Myanmar.
Finally, the conversation turns to Clements’ defense of the use of violence in self-defense in the appropriate circumstances, which applies to those now in the resistance movement in Burma. While he still believes in an emphasis on reconciliation, he also thinks that pragmatically, people should have the right to choose how to defend themselves.
"It's in line with what I call logical, wisdom-driven conscience and compassion, and morality and ethical wisdom, in the context of a world with the dualities of genocide, ethnic cleansing, rape, murder, and torture,” he says, describing his position. “I am not a black-and-white Buddhist. Someone trying to rape my daughter, I will take their throat out of their body! And I would fight to the death in Burma. If I were in Burma, and I was any one of those ethnic minorities right now, or majorities, I would take up the weapon in a defensive position to take out the evil dictator, and anyone associated with him. And I would just pray that there was someone in the world that was saying what I’m saying as well.”