Transcript: Episode #186: A Double Minority
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00:24
Right Willow Creek mizzima.
Host 00:48
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01:14
so download
Host 01:49
an issue in my way that I absolutely hated and it was it was it was out
Christopher Win 02:26
so, I'm from a small ethnic minority group a member that is known as Maramagi So, the term double double minority I meant was simply means minority within minority. So, Myanmar is you know, ethnically a very diverse country there are over 130 Will, specifically speaking there are 135 ethnic race races in Myanmar, which are recognized by the 2008 constitution. Of course, that is a discriminatory list. There are more than the number. So then, so Rakhine is an ethnic minority group in Yammer. And Muromachi is an even smaller group even smaller than Rohingya groups. So by so I mean, basically, double minority means within minorities, minority within minorities. So yeah, so for for my background, I'm from that small minority group. And I worked as a as a, you know, ethnic rights activist. So, yeah, this this brief about me, I work on documenting human rights violations in the context of Rakhine and also Rohingya issues and thus brief about me, maybe I will, I'm happy to answer if you want to know more.
Host 04:00
Sure, can you tell us a bit more about Muromachi people
Christopher Win 04:05
okay, yeah. So, Maramagi are there are over 10,000 population throughout the country and they predominantly they practice Buddhism's the, the strange thing about these people is even though they they they are about this group and Myanmar their future is they have like South Asian feature and that is a bit you know, distinct and distinct and yeah. So, and for for their feature and the way they speak and the linguistic characteristic and the way they speak is very much similar to that of Rohingya. But, of course, there are some deep versus in these two languages but basically they are you know, similar and because of their future and the way they speak they are you know discriminated not just buying the government but also the the you know, the community living in Rakhine and, and also because of the their read the religion they practice there on the on that basis they're also discriminated by larger ethnic group he in Myanmar. And
Host 05:38
so before as far as religion goes they're they're Buddhist and the dominant religious group in Myanmar is also Buddhists. So in what ways are Muromachi Buddhists discriminated against by Bomar or Rakhine Buddhists?
Christopher Win 05:54
Okay, so what in Rakhine state there are two Rakhine and Rohingya are two major, you know, ethnic group, a meme in in our Canaria. So, due to the future and the way they speak were discriminated by Rakhine community and on the basis of our religion, we are discriminated by Rohingya and we experienced some sort of violence as well during 2012 You know, ethnic conflict and also in 2017 ethnic conflict as well.
Host 06:37
I think there's another very small minority in that region as well the Maru people am I saying that right?
Christopher Win 06:42
Yeah, there are a few other ethnic minority groups row that Kimmy Dinah and Khmer as well those are also a minority groups for command a command they, they they explore I think they they experience the means to be your discriminate more severe discrimination than than us because they practice is Islam and they and because of the you know, racial um, it's difficult to say and they're also very small minority group and they practice Islam on on the basis of that even though they are, you know, in the list of recognized ethnic group they are highly discriminated in in our camp.
Host 07:35
So, you described how you're discriminated against by Bomar Buddhists Rakhine Buddhists were Hinga the being such a small minority group, you kind of get it from all sides, can you give us some examples in your personal life or maybe some anecdotes from your family or your friends or your community that can describe how this discrimination has manifested?
Christopher Win 07:58
So, well, I would say there are two kinds of discrimination one is institutionalized discrimination. And another is, you know, communal and discriminations. So to start with the you know, communal discriminations, and they are restrictions, doing some some sort of like business as well, let's say, a Maramagi farmer might have some farms and run a chi or other you know, larger ethnic groups meet people from those group may get into your farms, and they can take whatever they want from your farms, you even if you try to, you know, prohibit them from intruding to your place, but they, they will care about you, and they might even even bully you if you stop them. So we have those sort of social you know, I would say it's, it's more than just discrimination is even like violence. And it also we were during the during the conflict as well, in 2012 Maramagi houses in Mrauk U were burned down by Rakhine people, and also in 2017. We face threat from Rohingya people as well in Mondo booty down area and many people a lot of Maramagi people left their their homes in a Maung daw and so we have those sort of discriminate. We have some other social descript nation that that I personally face as well even at school. I had been bullied by a lot of or conference and even teacher you know physically harassed me when I was at at school and in terms of institutionalized discrimination even though my parents they are citizen they have national registration card, I don't have it because I was denied from citizenships and an even in romaji people even though well in Myanmar. The difference is that in Myanmar if you matriculated the admit admittance to a university is determined by the score you get from your matriculation exams. So, in in former Maramagi people even though you get a good score at your matriculation exams, you want to go to you know, to the to the medicine university or you want to become a doctor you would be restricted and, and if you want to study something that that on which you can do, you can do your own professions and the there would be some sort of discrimination on that as well you can apply for engineering university, you can apply for , University of medicines, and they are some sort of discrimination and also we have, we have, you know, travel restriction as well, even within Rakhine state, if you want to travel from my village, bam, bam, young to situate you had unit a lot of document documents from the village, village Chairman, at the time, it was not administrate ation office administrator, village administrator, they call it the time, like the village chairman, you know, to ask for documentation from village chairman and also from the police stations. And yeah, they you need to you also need to bring sent, you know, your your household document with you. And there are several other documents that you need just to travel to sit sit away from from my village. But if you want to travel out of the state, you will need even more documents and you would only be allowed just for 45 days. So which is impossible to, you know, for, for you to, for us to you know, receive medical treatment, or also to do schooling at in Yangon. And that to do to get those kinds of services is impossible for us. So we have those sort of institutional district institutional license terminations. And we have another thread that is I don't know, how would you say that? Whether it's I don't know how to say that or whether it's, I'm not quite sure whether it said you know, institution should additional less discrimination or you know, communal discrimination, it was in 2017. I know, sorry, it was in 2012 one, my father, my father is scooty teacher, and when he was in main town to withdraw his salary, he was at the Department of you know, township education, education. And when he was withdrawing his salary, he he was surrounded by a lot of the so called educated teachers to harm him and he just do it even to Qi hang, you know, just to say directly. My father tried to explain No, I'm not a Muslim, I'm a Buddhist, I'm Maramagi, I'm an ethnic you know, recognized ethnic from an recognized ethnic group, but they said Maramagi are kala, and they use the term you know, kala is a discriminatory term, no, you are kala, whatever Maramagi is also kala and you should not be here and I think it you can you can feel how a person would feel in that environment, all these hostile people are surrounded, surrounded, you know, just to around the person and I, it's my father. So I can I can imagine how he would feel. And the one lucky thing is that, on that precise moment, the husband of a teacher who was working under my father came to the department, because he needs, you know, some documents from my father just to transfer for, for his wife to transfer from my father school to another place. So, and he was discharged, shouting out, my father's name is some is he's here or things like that. My father said, I'm here. So and that guy saved my father from that place. I can imagine if he didn't turn that off, I think my father would have been killed. So I think I don't know what sort of I don't know, how would you say that? Whether it's an because it's the government building? And I don't know, it's, I think it's like, we have those kinds of threads as well. At the time. So. Yeah, there are so many other you know, socials and Institutionalists, discriminations.
Host 16:22
I mean, I think what's so incredible and fascinating and really devastating and hearing you talk is that for one, you're painting this picture of this incredibly complex ethnic and religious diversity that exists within Myanmar, you're not even talking about the whole of Myanmar, you're just talking about one small little section one little microcosm, and what's there. And I think the general picture and justifiably so is that the Rohingya are this have been this this victim and at the expense of this larger aggressor, which is he enormous suffering on their community. And that's very true. There's no, definitely there's there's nothing taking that main headline away. But as you break stories down, you're describing some of the interactions with your community that's a double minority, and even in far smaller in the Ringu community, that you're actually facing certain kinds of prejudice and discrimination against the Ranga, who are massively prejudice and discriminated themselves. And so it just kind of brings about this extremely complex and challenging nuance to understand of that there's not this black and white are good and bad, or aggressor, and victim, but there are just all of these different ethnicities that are trying to live together and having their own tensions and having their own privileges and, and disadvantages that are occupying the same area and have these historic relationships as well as historic tensions they're working out. But it's just very, very complex. And you can't take away from this region, the story that these are the guys that do this, and these are the guys that are impacted this way. Yes, that might be true in in a in a basic headline of understanding. But when you break things down, it's so much more complicated and nuanced, and all of those different and diverse relationships. And, you know, I think like all of us anywhere, not just Myanmar, but all of us anywhere. We are all creatures of privilege in some way, as we're also creatures of victimization, and other we go about the world by being objects of privilege and having our own privilege while also being victimized in some ways by those who have more privileged than us. This is part of the human existence and human nature. And, and but what you're describing in this part of Myanmar is just such a more complicated spin on this. And then on top of that, what the military is trying to do to propagandize and not trying to be a force for unity or solidarity as many governments around the world to, but actually the opposite actually trying to divide and to and to do fake news and propaganda and encourage hatred and enmity of different people. So you actually have the government playing not certainly not a positive role, not even a neutral role, but actually an actively harmful role in trying to spread more dissent. I mean, this sounds like a very complicated and challenging situation growing up. Yeah.
Christopher Win 19:20
So well, the what's happening Myanmar, we are experiencing ethnically a patriarchy in a member and the the dominant ethnic, oppress the smaller ethnic and the smaller, ethnic, oppress even smaller ethnic, it's very much like a patriarchy. And I think if everyone in Myanmar all estimates respect the equal rights and if they want to, you know if now people are fighting for federalism, if they and for the equal rights and equal rights autonomy, I think they all should come together and respect each other's right. And I think the communities in Myanmar need to be educated as well in the past, even during the, you know, during the Democratic times before the military coup and the there is no political representation, not just not not just at the Union level also at the state level, there was no political representations for minorities and double minorities in Myanmar. So I think all the ethnics in it not just in Rakhine all the ethnics throughout the all the countries should come together and for the rights and well when we talk about the rights, ethnic rights, it also means the you know, the respect of rights of other other ethnics as well. So, and when we come together with respect of rights and also respect of justice, and I think the the problem could be addressed to address to, uh, to an extent, and all we need for the moment is, you know, up, it's like law, you know, is that that needs to be, you know, passed at the, you know, what, the Federal charter or whatever, you know, we need specific more for the ethnics. I mean, especially minority groups in in member at that. Because, well, let's say, I want to, you know, demand for I want to voice my ethnic rights at the parliament level, or, you know, at the, at the, you know, union Union level, but since we cannot expect political representation, it's impossible, and even less, even if the, you know, the the Constitution might, you know, provide a law that every, all the Athonite can, can, you know, join the elections and, you know, the they can be, they have rights to be elected or whatever, whatever, you know, law is passed, I think it's impossible, if you don't have enough population, there is if you don't have a constitutincy, or there is, you know, enough populations of your ethnic groups to represent your ethnic at the parliament. So I think, for the policymakers who are working on federal charters, and we're working on the Constitution, so member need, you know, some sort of policy for double minority group something like quota system or whatever. I think the there are two parts. One is the, from the, from the part of the policymakers in terms of the minority group, and another part is like, you know, the ethnic parts like Rakhine, and Hindus, because they all are also discriminated by the majority groups and also by the government. And they, they need to realize that we are on the same boat, and we on the same page, we need to come together to fight this prejudice and to respect the rights of everyone. And yeah, and also, not just ethnically and individually, we need to respect the the rights of everyone's and we should demand for the justice of everyone in Myanmar.
Host 24:28
Right. Well, I mean, this has been the story of Myanmar right as the the different ethnic groups trying to find a way to come together to have some Coalition and the scarred history of Myanmar has been really sadly, tragically the failure to do so in some ways. It's banned the presence of the communists they've they've definitely splintered a number of ethnic groups before they dissolved in 88. And other ways, it's been the military itself and how much they've been able to splinter defeat. groups through some of their policies and strategies and such. But you're outlining what his what has been the desire and the hope for so many generations and so many decades that and even when you go back to the independence era, and when England was going to leave their empire and grant independence, that was one of the requisites they called for was that the Penland conference that there would be that they would be able to see some kind of guarantee or evidence of some ethnic coalition that would come together. And sadly, the Finland conference was, was far from effective, as we've seen, historically, and the current didn't even sign on to that. And it's just been one big mess of civil war ever since. But you're describing the hope and the goal and the ideal that has been in so many people's hearts and Myanmar for so long, and that we've yet to realize. And so where do you think we are now with that? What what do you see as the current climate for how these different ethnic groups are able to see as well as the majority groups as well, especially now that they're able to see in your words, that they're in the same boat? To what degree? Do you see progress on that front? And to what degree are you seeing challenges moving ahead?
Christopher Win 26:17
Well, even though we're experiencing a catastrophic situation, we're experiencing a very devastating situations, I think, the perspective of the people not just, you know, ethnic minority, but also the majority people have changed. They, they come to realize that they, you know, those people voice have lumbering silence, and they, they started to realize that, you know, they are, like, on the same boats, and I think it's, I think it's, it's good, in the bad. But, you know, even though the situation is horrible, the people the perspective of there's a great momentum in the, in the perspective of the people for, for the federalism, and for, you know, respecting the, you know, the, the ethnic, ethnic rights. And, of course, you know, ethnic group leaders are, you know, dealing with other, like energy governments, and they are having those sort of political discussions on the federalism. But there's, there's still some shortcomings, there's still some policy need to be addressed. And but I think it's still a good a good sign. And before the military coup, people didn't even know what the federalism is, people, our voice has long been silenced, you know, ethnic, not just our voice all the day thinks they might not think that they're privileged, but they, the point is that they don't even realize that they're privileged, actually, they are. And so, one good thing is even the the, you know, perspective, of Bamar people is now changing. And I think that that's a good sign. And it's, I think it's a good start. Because we had a lot of political discussions before the military coup, like NCA and blah, blah, blah, and nothing come into reality. It was like all on the paper, not into the reality and it has been like a decade just discussing over the football isms and, and people the ethnic. You know, revolutionary groups have long been fighting over, you know, they've been fighting over seven decades now for for the Federal isms. And the Bamar people now started to, you know, understand how, how they're initially, they didn't even give any attention on this application. Now, they're, they're trying to, you know, see the pictures of how ethnic rights have been violated. I think it's a good sign now, and we can we, I only see progress in the future. And I have a, you know, strong hope, you know, in taking down these military regimes and start a new Federal Democratic, you know, chapters in in very near future.
Host 29:38
It's quite something to hear you say that, one of the darkest and to many the most hopeless moments of despair, that the country is known in some time in terms of the stalemate that's going on with the military coup and the military control the atrocities and human rights violations and airstrikes that are happening every day to say nothing of the rape, torture and arrests and discrimination of ethnic minority communities that within this climate, you're actually more hopeful than you were during previous years and decades, including the transition when things actually opened up, because of the fact that the Bomar majority wasn't really the by the bar majority, I don't mean that those that are in control military or even the NLD. But talking more the majority more population, that you're feeling that they have moved from feeling a skepticism or suspicion of a federal democracy and what that means, of course, growing up in a climate where there, there's propaganda about these ethnic communities being terrorist organizations, that their own military is preventing them protecting them from that they're moving from this mindset to a mindset that federal democracy is actually the only thing that's going to keep them safe that by ensuring the rights of others, that's a way that their rights are also going to be insured. And I've talked to many Bomar Buddhists on this platform on the record that have said they've come to that conclusion directly. They've gone from feeling that they needed a state, protecting Burmese Buddhism for them against these other ethnic minorities to feeling that the only way they can be safe is if these other people have their rights assured their rights are also assured. But that's just something really quite curious to just reference and make note of that in this darkest chapter of Myanmar's history is at a time, when it sounds like you actually feel more hopeful about the prospects for a federal democracy of different ethnic minorities getting their rights assured than previous eras. Is that fair to say?
Christopher Win 31:39
Yes to and because well, people is fundamental in any country. And no matter how bad the regimes or if the people are united, I think we people will eventually wind this I'm you know, strongly convinced. And initially, yes, right. Majority of people are Burma in Myanmar, and they all thinks that like military is hero military is protecting them. Military is, you know, protecting the country from disintegrations. And things like that they have those sort of mindset, they think that federalism is this integration of the Union. That's what they initially think. Initially, that's what they thought. And now the does perspective has have changed federalism is, you know, the respecting the rights of academics, it's like, you know, giving the promises that they had in the past, it's, as you mentioned, this depends on unions is the pill agreement. So keeping the promise is not, you know, into integrating, you know, this integrating the country. So, and since the perspective of the people has changed, I think, of course, we are, you know, in the, you know, dark times, so a lot of people have been killed, many villages have been in, you know, on fires, and a lot of homes have been destroyed. Of course, we and many lives were lost. And of course, we're experiencing all this, you know, atrocious act every day, but since people have member are, you know, determined, and they are on the right path, I am hopeful that we will wind eventually, because we never had this sort of momentum in the past. It's been 1988. You know, revolution is not comparable to this moment. And I think we we did, there is a huge momentum in the, in this revolutions of the people against the military regimes. And I am convinced that we were on the right track, and we're going to win this.
Host 34:08
Let's talk a little about your own personal journey as well, because I just can't help but notice that you reference, the discrimination, the discriminatory laws that are are established and Myanmar are so rigid, that a person from your ethnic group cannot leave that region for more than 45 days out of the year, to go to other parts of Myanmar. It's just extraordinary. That's That's just awful, as you mentioned, you know, university or travel or medical or family or whatever else, to have, that kind of restriction is really just almost like, you know, being confined to a camp or something. And yet, you have not just managed to leave your own region, but you've managed to leave the country you're pursuing a career of wanting to support human rights and documentation in Myanmar, so that you're advocating not just for yourself or your own group. but for the country and communities as a whole, given the lack of opportunities and the discriminatory nature of the laws that affect you and your community, your journey to where you've gotten to and what you're doing seem quite extraordinary to me. So can you share what exactly you're doing now and what brought you there?
Christopher Win 35:21
Okay, so Well, yes. When I matriculated in 2008, let me start from from that. And I was in Sittwe to pursue my higher education at Sittwe University. And still then I didn't have any national registration card. And and, you know, I managed to get my national registration card in 2010. It's a bit earlier than moodpoint project. And it's not it's not like I got it officially I got it by bribing the immigration officer because I needed it to pursue my master degree to travel to Yangon. And we all needed that so and then there was a tenant tendency in romaji that they wants they need to get NRC Card they need to bribe the immigration officer. And in 2011 there was a I think it was sorry, it's not in 2011 It was after 2012 after the conflict happened in Rakhine, you know, racial conflict happened in Rakhine there was a movement project and that project one of the project one of the movement projects you know, provided romaji people with national registration card but I get my national registration card a little bit earlier. Despite that, you have national registration card if you struggle to even go you need extra document from you know, from the village administrator and also from the police stations. And and I needed that when I came to Yangon to pursue my master's degree. And even even if the point is even if you are, you don't you didn't need that extra document. Once they know that you are Maramagyi they will, you know, take you out of the car and they will start investing, investigating they will make you recite boldest pray the prayers it means that Maramagyi people should not practice any religion other than Buddhism's is. So, you need to recite Buddhist prayers at the, you know, immigration checkpoints. And I had those those sort of you know, those sort of restrictions or when I was at my university, you know, when I was studying my education, and still then I didn't work for my communities, and in 2000s, I graduated in 2015. And then still, the, the voice of magic people and other ethnic groups in Rakhine have been, have not been heard by many people and 2017 crisis happened and my activism started since then. So in 2018, and 2019 2020 20, you know, all these times I've been collaborating with you and Human Rights Office documenting human rights violations in in Rakhine state when the conflict between our Rakhine and military military broke out. I was documenting crimes against humanity in with oil ECHR in in Rakhine state and also occasionally documenting the plight of Rohingya people. And I've been doing all this activist activism work and I've been also somehow collaborating with our consumer unions and doing all this. All those things. And after the military coup, we were like the first group that came out to street. Well, on the same day, there was a big protest led the Minister of Energy now, and there was a big protest, but we are a little bit earlier than their protests were I think we came out to spread around 10am in the morning and it was at Minigone junctions and with but we received only only you know, limited attention from the media because our our group is very, very small. And so since since then we're like the first group that can out the street . I've been I've been protesting. I've been publicly delivering speeches in Sule Pagoda, and doing all these things. And, you know, the, the issue that, you know, the SAC issued warrants against me, I've been safer, several safe houses running here and there. So, thanks to the police and suggestions of my friends and my friends from all OCHR. I left the country in April. And yeah, even even before the military coup, there were, it was under military NLD government tenure, the there were some SB but you know, always following me SBR, like police from Special Branch, they normally followed me. There were no charges against me. I think they have some sort of suspensions on what, because I've been collaborating with American student unions, and I've been also dealing with the victims in Arakan State who have been, you know, affected by the human rights violations. So they know that they know what I have been doing. But there was no charges against me. But as be, please, well, they wouldn't be always mostly in civilian dress, they would be like, following me, it was before the military coup. So yeah, I left the country in April. And that's, that's how I came here.
Host 41:45
Right, yeah. So tell us a bit about some of the work that you've been doing this part of these student unions and general strike committee, that have been very active and playing this important role. Tell us a bit more about what all these groups are doing right now, two and a half years into the coup.
Christopher Win 42:02
Okay. So I think the student group, after the military coup, I've not been dealing with the student group, after the military coup. We, they were, you know, we just happened to you know, come up together, I mean, we here means that, you know, ethnic leaders from like Kachin and Karen, we happen to come together, and we decided to, we decided that we should go even more systematic, and we should, we should, when we need, you know, a unified voice from all the ethnic groups, and we, you know, founded the general strike committee of nationalities, and we have, you know, some, we had, at the same day, we adopted some policies, like our, our, you know, goals is like, one is to eradicate military dictatorship, when we say dictatorship is any forms of dictatorship, not just by military dictatorships, because we even experienced, you know, some sort of democratic dictatorships before the military coup. And so when we say, that's why we didn't use the term military, before the dictatorship, we, we say, eradicating any sort of dictatorships in, in Myanmar, and also, you know, establishing federal federal democracy, and we have those sort of policy adopted on the same day, our community was founded, founded after the coup, and then we had, you know, a series of a protest against the military regions. And, you know, the most most of the people who have been protesting along are our ethnic community, they have some sort of, you know, um, some sort of like signs that, that represent the ethnic group something like wearing their traditional clothes, or probably, you know, carrying their net national flags or those things, things like that. So, and, of course, our committee was very diverse and people started to I think it's some some sort of like, making people realize that Myanmar like, especially Bamar people that Myanmar is extremely diverse country and our rights have long been, you know, violated and and it's something like educating people in somehow somehow as well.
Host 44:59
Oh, yeah, for Thank you for that. And as far as the, the your own ethnic group and the activities that you've been doing, can you talk about how your ethnic community has been faring since the military coup have? What difficulties have they faced? And is there any resistance force or arm group associated with your people?
Christopher Win 45:23
Um, well, actually, I would know, because Maramagyi people have been, it's, they are they have, you know, this strong inferiority in their, in their mind that they think that standing up against any ruling group is, is very much like crime because they, they have seen those sort of atrocities, you know, for many decades. And so far I think I'm the like the only person who have been doing this activism work some sometimes criticizing Rakhine community for and sometimes criticizing Rohingya groups, sometimes design, sizing the military groups doing I think, I think I'm the only person or person in my community, most of magic people are, they are, mostly they are educated. Another thing is, their inferiority is very, very strong. And I think it will take time to heal their inferiority. So so far, we don't have any resistant group and they are very afraid of funding this sort of group as well.
Host 46:38
Right, so I'm looking at the mirror match people this is this is a Buddhist group, Buddhist ethnic group and this part of the world that also spills over into Bangladesh. And of course, before there were formal borders, people lived in, in many, many cases, all over Southeast Asia. There were communities that lived across lands before borders came and then borders split up the different groups of people according to their the new national identities, and there is a long standing Buddhist community in Bangladesh, but I understand that the barooga people are are connected ethnically with the Mara Maji. And there are some very notable baru Buddhists in historically that have played important roles. I mentioned this to you before the interview, one being Deepa Ma, who studied under Mahasi Sayyidah and was a teacher of Joseph Goldstein, and the other Moon Indra, who was associated with all of the great teachers and students and future meditation teachers of the day, and also studied under say itu, bukan, and Mahasiswa in in Burma and then spent some time in India and Bodhgaya. These are very notable names that any meditator listening will know that we're members of this Bangladeshi Buddhist community. And so can you talk about your own people tomorrow? Maji? What relations or connections or or other kinds of familiarity do you have with some of the Buddhist community in Bangladesh? Do you see yourselves as kind of distant cousins and part of a similar group or is it closer than that? Or is it is it really quite more distant that with the border setting in that these communities have somewhat separated and you don't have as much contact?
Christopher Win 48:29
Yes, well, according to Rakhine historians and some Burma history, as well as revision is from India regions since the Buddha's time they they know that we derived from this region at the time Bangladesh was part of India. So, after, after the Buddha's time, people like Buddhist group in that area, area, they experience a lot of challenges a lot of threat as well from many other religious groups, and also we have we are those sort of Mughal Empire as well, to to those sort of threat we we you know, left you know, we left the India regions and we came close to our kingdom. It was like on the border of arcane in India, and of course, the majority of Brewer people live there and some like somewhere you know, on the site of arcane, so yes, we are ethnically related. We are we're like the same, the same ethnic group, but majority of Brewer lived in in Bangladesh in Chittagong area, and we are just very small populations who are on the side of arcane kingdoms since then, and so says the, you know, the populations and on the side of Bangladesh is very, very big. And there are a lot of both, you know, religiously or you know, other either politically and some other social media or some some public figure in Bangladesh, as well. dipalma I happen to read her as well, she is some, some even claim that she she was even like arhats she, you know, spiritual enlightenment as well. So while it's is it, I will say something to be proud that there is some someone like that in our ethnic ethnic groups. Yeah.
Host 50:49
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Those are very well known and respected names. And so does your community these days have much to do with that Buddhist community around Chittagong, or have national borders and time just kind of naturally started to separate those apart.
Christopher Win 51:05
Yep, yeah, people still thinks that they they're the same race, muddy and Blue are the Sims. So some, but when we say Maria Maji language, we identify ourselves as borrower when we communicate with other people in Myanmar, because we need to speak a different language either Rakhine or Burma or chi and Bomar, they don't linguistically very similar. So, we use the term Muromachi. So, some romaji is also the name listed in 2000. So, the name listed in the Constitution some number. So we identify as some romaji as well. And basically murmur D and Broodwar are the same in some some blue people in Bangladesh as well they themselves identify as some romaji, but not many.
Host 51:59
Right? And in terms of Buddhism, in what way does Muromachi Buddhism differ from Bomar Buddhism, which is the majority in the country
Christopher Win 52:11
actually, we all practice Tera Vaada Buddhism, even even in Bengal, Bangladesh, Brewer people, they practice Tera Vaada, but historically, there were some there were some evidence that beware people practice Mahayana Buddhism, but I assume that Mahayana Buddhism came into, you know, Brewer community only after you know, only after sometime later, when there was you know, ideologically you know, religious ideologically clash between Mahayana and Theravada Buddhism and after, after probably Mughal empire, they were, they were like, you know, competition among these two bodies branches, especially on the on the India regions. So, I think since then the is at the times, where people practice Mahayana Buddhism for for a certain time, and but, I think now, even in Bangladesh, they are practicing Tera Vaada Buddhism's Of course, when we say been into our bodies and even a Myanmar, there are still you know, there is there are still some hide years of Mahayana mixed into a terminal cubism's. Once you go to a pagoda Bodis pagoda in memory, you would see some creatures, you know, surrounded by the pagoda like Saturday, Sunday corner, Saturday corner and like they would be some some sort of those creature is like this or not from Tera Vaada desert from Mahayana as well. And there are a lot of those Mahayana ideas, you know, mixed into Tera Vaada. Buddhism's and now, I think some educated monks in Myanmar are, you know, educating on this Mahayana try to, you know, refining Buddhism's to Buddha Buddhism.
Host 54:24
Sure, yeah, and that's true across all of Southeast Asia, even among the Braemar empires, there were there's evidence of various Hindu as well as Mahayana. And then, of course, the whole animist realm coming into the Buddhism practice, practice by the Bomar as well historically. And there were advisors to the king over the years as well that came from those different backgrounds, but in terms of I understand that today, both sets of people practice Theravada Buddhism, but are is that as the expression or the the way that the faith and NFS is it Are there differences contemporarily in among them are Maji people as in more Buddhists
Christopher Win 55:11
while still, I think they are too attached to some, some, you know, ideas that are inherited from, from Mahayana. And it's is, is difficult to convince them is Mahayana Buddhism had been the true attribute because there's, let's say you go to someone and say that it's not from Tripitaka of Tera Vaada. Buddhism is from Mahayana, they will not easily accept that. Because they're there to attach sometimes. And, and but when, when some, when you ask them, what religion do you practice, if you would identify that is Tera Vaada. And I think in Bangladesh is the same, they would say they are practicing Tera Vaada Buddhism, still, yeah, they're, like some sort of mixture of other ideas as well.
Host 56:09
Right. So yeah, as we close our interview, I realized that we've been talking quite a bit about more of the political aims of the Marmonte people as well as just the overall federal democracy and Myanmar and different ethnic minorities a very serious and important topic. But I also want to make some space for understanding other parts of the more Maji people as a as another people on this earth and just the curiosity or listeners probably have about different aspects of their their culture and society given such a small ethnic minority and as you said yourself, you count yourself as perhaps maybe the only Marmonte person that has transcended from the community and has gone internationally to be able to connect with not just other people in Myanmar but around the world and so you've become something of a representative. So if we could just learn a bit more about the people and the culture let's start with food if you can just tell us something about that would be interesting to our listeners. What if one were to go into a more modular home what kinds of special and unique foods could they find there?
Christopher Win 57:16
Um, well there is some sort of snacks that they do and I would say well they have there just to mention once one snack is like we have like a paddy right when it started to sprout the the grind grain in that PD is so sweet. So they they collect all these grains from from from the rice and they make snacks it's very much like laws in in Rakhine rock I have some some sort of like laws, but it's similar to that but it's, it's different. So they have those kinds of those kinds of foods as well and they have many other snacks as well. So in terms of the the you know, in terms of the curry I think there are some distinct carries as well from from Rakhine they have well it's difficult to describe they have like you know, some sort of when, when is when monsoon season starts they the fish normally there's some sort of tiny fish you know, that are you know, easily found in, in the, in the fields so they have different recipe to cooking those sort of food as well. So they call that in Mara McGee, they call that grandmas as well so they have those kinds of food as well and who's who arc is very famous and Gundo so those those curries are very famous in Miramar Jane still missed those food. It's been quite a long time that I have try. I haven't eaten those food. So yeah, those are very different from other ethnic groups in Rakhine
Host 59:38
That's great to know. That's That's great to hear that is there anything else that stands out among Margie people or culture or custom that you'd like to take the chance to share and educate us on now?
Christopher Win 59:51
Um, yeah, well, I think it's pretty, uh, pretty much Well, there we have distinctive culture as a but it's my my bed that I'm just don't come up with, with and when we have when I was young, I have seen my grammar, smoke smoking, what the way, the way she smoke is very much is different. There is very much like a smoke pot. And the there's a pipe connected to the to this port and she she just smoke with this pipe and I don't know what ingredients she put in those port as well. But this question has already been gone. I know that went to prints up to sort of culture at least we need to have the record of those ports as well. And we have some other customs and traditions that Muromachi people do. But sadly, we are losing that because the point is that every young generation today, they they think that as doing those sorts of practice, you know, exercising those sort of culture is shameful because they are different from other majority groups. And even to date, more most mirmehdi people are not speaking romaji language as well. Actually, yeah, I myself is not good at speaking romaji language I understand. So, we are losing our culture, and I know we need to preserve and recent we found it Amara Maji culture and literature committee. But since I knew I needed to, you know, leave the country I could not walk on on that and anymore, but I'm still need to figure out on how I could work on you know, preserving the culture and literature.
Host 1:01:57
Yeah, that's that's very interesting. And you mentioned literature, I seem to remember that Chittagong the Buddhists from Chittagong historically have or is very famous for their literature, their poetry, their scholarship, going back to the British period when the British Empire was there. So, it would make sense that there would also be an appreciation for literature and such in among the more modern people as well.
Christopher Win 1:02:24
Yeah, well in terms of the literature and what before the this Bangladesh region was predominately about these people, and they have those sort of literature. So but after after all this pilot thinks that including Mughal Empire, and after all these things happened, you know, the only limited number of Buddhist people remained in in that area. So, the some people want some people are, you know, inclined to claim that they their literature is like, you know, what, Bangladesh should the people are using, you know, they literally they like the similar treasure, but it's but it's not okay, I don't think is something appropriate to claim, you know, like that. So, we just need to invent another literature big since we speak, you know, Indo Aryan language, I think, are creations of a new alphabet, you know, a new should alphabet should be connected to somehow connected to Bangladeshi alphabets as well.
Host 1:03:51
So, you're saying that there's an issue with trying to figure out the most appropriate written script for more emoji language, is that correct?
Christopher Win 1:04:00
To even though we, we, we have, I don't think the way we speak is similar, but the boat you know, Brewer people may want to you know, claim that they the lit, you know, these written scripts that the alphabets that people are using in Bangladesh or or you know, that they are related to the those scripts and, but it's but it's not, but there might be clashes if they claim like that. So, what we think is we need to invent a new, a new, written scripts and you alphabets for, for our people for our language, in order not to in order to prevent our language from You know, disfiguring you know, because we're otherwise in long run, or we will lose our language as well.
Host 1:05:12
Yeah, I mean, you're really painting kind of a sad picture of what of life experience in this small minority community, which I'm sure is true for many other small minority communities within Myanmar as well. You don't have equal rights, you have systematic and institutional prejudice and racism that you're confronted with, you're constantly afraid of being overwhelmed, not just by the main majority, but even by groups that are themselves being victimized by the majority but then are arced are bigger and more influential than your group. And so they're, they're following that same practice of kind of kicking down the ones who are below them. And then you're also talking about being overwhelmed in terms of culture in terms of a language in terms of an identity and equal rights and everything else. And so you're really painting this, this picture of a people that are are trying to survive with access to, to basic human rights, while also trying to maintain their own identity and their own customs, things like, you know, language, and food and literature and identity. These are these are, these are no small things. And so this is really quite a challenge.
Christopher Win 1:06:26
To Right, right. Yeah, definitely.
Host 1:06:31
Yeah, well, I thank you so much for taking the time to educate us on your own life and your own views and experiences and what you're doing now in the post coup era, to try to bring these different ethnic groups together and reach out to Bomar as well, as well as educating us on the more ammaji people this is, I'm just really honored that our platform is able to serve in bringing out this information about this ethnic minority, to our listeners who are tuning in and getting learning something and getting a bit of something about this small ethnic group and having a window into their experiences and their aspirations and their work right now. I think that's just fantastic.
Christopher Win 1:07:10
It's my pleasure. And then I'm also thank you for having me and, you know, for providing me a chance to share my experience and you know, my, the background of my ethnic.
Host 1:07:37
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