Transcript: Episode #75: David Eubank, A Man of Faith and Action Fights for Burma

Following is the full transcript for the interview with David Eubank, which appeared on October 21, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.

---

Host  00:20

Thank you for taking the time to listen to today's episode. As you know, the current crisis in Myanmar is extremely concerning.right well you have one line and you might as well go for it because what are you going to hold on to your some more night sounds

David Eubank  01:07

played on a Monday and I grew up was missionary going and shooting remember thinking? I think I'm more of a soldier. I thought God had something else for me to do.that's gr go over kilometer with me. And then I'm 79 round, more static shooting. I have no other plan. Just go go to the sound of the guns go to the sound of need. And trust God God show you how you can be used in the field just outside the good life club children program here on 26 June 2021 at 30 law, David Eubank former Special Forces Captain has gone on to found a relief group called the free form of rain. Some sounds of the jungle as we walk. I felt God's voice Get on your knees and pray. I look like a Christian nutcase man. And fearsome sounds of the buffalo with a little wooden bells grazing you hear this? Anytime you get near a village it just opened up on precise bullets are pinging off on me like crazy. Everything is just right there on the edge edge. What's happened to me is wrong I'm gonna help you eat if you die try and we're not going to leave you because you count. Jesus helped me a good day.

Host  04:32

I'm so pleased to be joined today on Insight Myanmar podcast by Dave Eubank of the free broom arrangers. David, we've been trying so long to connect I'm really glad we were finally able to do so now.

David Eubank  04:45

Thank you. And one reason is when the same country finally.

Host  04:50

Right great. I'm really honored to be speaking with someone whose life and whose story have provided this endless inspiration for me. And not only on this subject of advocacy for the Burmese people, but also on simply what it means to be a good human being with a loving heart and to walk with an intention to sacrifice, sacrifice, comforts and safety on behalf of others. So I think I speak for many, when I mentioned that you've set an example for so many others to strive for, to follow in some small way, even if their ethnic or religious background might be different from yours. I'm sure you hear this all the time. But I just want to start off by thanking you for all you do and for choosing to spend this time with us.

David Eubank  05:36

Thank you, Your humility, and your dedication is for me, and I feel very reinforced. And I think also these programs help people in Burma field and not alone. So thank you.

Host  05:55

So normally, I would like to have an entire episode simply on how you got where you are, as this would feel more than enough time as well as interest. But as we know, these are not normal times. Still, I think some listeners might not have heard about you before and are asking me right now why all these high words for this David Eubank guy. There's a great documentary out about your life on amazon prime that I definitely recommend that listeners should check out. But in the meantime, before we get to current events, can you give us a brief summary of how you got where you are?

David Eubank  06:30

Yes, thanks. And the documentary is free from arrangers. And I also wrote a book called do this for love, freedom arranged in the Battle of Mosul, which is focused much on Mosul and the fight against ISIS. But the first quarter of the book is on Burma. And it also explains how we got involved and we got involved. I grew up in Thailand. I went there when I was nine months old, taken by my parents who are Christians, and they're still there. They are teachers and evangelists and well diggers and friends at the ties my dad's 91, my mom's 89. And they love the people in Thailand, people love them. My mom's saying with the king of Thailand at the past King, because she was on Broadway before. And so I grew up in Thailand. And knew the situation in Burma was just a bit different than than it is now. But we knew about it. And I hunted with the Quran and with Allahu these are tribes in Burma and in Thailand. So I grew up knowing a little bit. But then after high school, I went to University of Texas, Santa was commissioned as an army US Army officer in the infantry, and then I was in the Rangers, and then I was in Special Forces. And while I was in Special Forces, I went back to Thailand, training Thai Special Forces, but again, Burma became more and more prominent. I get left the army in 1992. And that was during a major transition in Burma, where the stork state Lord order council took over as just another series of dictatorships. And sushi was put in house arrest. And Burma went into chaos and even more war. Right now we're looking at 72 years of Civil War, the war started 1949 is not stopped. But but in the early 90s, I left the military went to seminary, while I was there, a tribe in Burma called the war in northern Burma in northern Shan state. The watch tribe had a Foreign Minister and the Why are we're headhunters, almost all of them, and animist spirit worshipers, which is why they took heads. But there were a few Christians and one of them was an educated man named, we saw Louis fact he just passed away of COVID last week, and he was in his late 70s. Anyway, in 1993, he invited me through my parents because he tracked two months walking from Northern Shan state to Thailand to Burma, asking for help. One little aside about the why they produce most of the opium in Burma. And they also are one of the leading producers of methamphetamines. But they came to Thailand saying, Let's meet the US government and the United Nations. And if we can get help, we will stop all narcotics production, but we need crop substitution help. And we need someone to keep the Burma army off our backs. Because if we just stop our drugs, right, our drugs are like your nuclear weapons. They're the final thing. We don't even allow drugs to be used in war state, which is true. We use it to sell and buy weapons to keep the Burma army off our backs. Well, no progress is made with us are the United Nations. But this delegation led by Mussolini, this wall leader did meet my parents, and they introduced him to me and he said come and help us. We are a warrior. People and you're a warrior. But you believe in God, you can't make anybody believe anything but come in love and tell and come as someone from God. So, okay, my wife and I were married on the beach in Malibu in June 1993. And we went into Burma extra legally, you know, by hook and by crook by walking not by our own cleverness, but in the hands of the local law people. And that was the beginning. And then in 1996, I an opportunity to legally go to Burma and I met Asan Suchi. And in her house, she couldn't leave the house, but she got visitors at that point. It's changed later. And in meeting her, she said, We need you entity can you help with Unity? And we need people to pray for us. So we started the day of prayer for Burma, we got involved with different ethnic groups back on the Thai side, and working for a political unity between the ethnics and each other as well as the ethnics and the Burman majority. That was 1996 1997. The Burma Army launched a major offensive on in eastern Burma that is placed over 500,000 people that year in crenn, terenie, and Shawn states, and we were in the middle of that. And we had there was no such thing as free Burma Rangers. I didn't have a team, I had nothing my wife and I, and I remember thinking, praying and go, God, what can I do? And I thought, well, I'll help one person. And they'll be glad and I'll be glad I have no other plan, but I can't just watch. So I went to the Burma border with for backpacks and medicine, and thought I'll just help people. And right away when I stepped out of my truck, I was met by Korean ethnic medic. And he was leading about 10,000 people who'd fled from Burma to Thailand into Thailand. He was the only medic there. And he said, my name is Celia. I'm a medic, can I help you? And he had this big Ruby earring. Big right earring had his mouth read full of beetle nut. He's laughing all the time, either hand grenade on his harness on his chest. And in 16 in his hand, he looked like a pirate. But like a pirate Angel. And I said I found out later he was the champion kickboxer in Burma, as well as being a phenomenal medic. And I said, Yeah, I hope and so then he turned to people who were fleeing, there's a 10,000 people coming down the road, crossing the border in what's called dupli district into own palm area. And they're going out of this little dirt road. And he said, Man, you can run tomorrow, but today's the day to help the people. And so for men came over, picked up backpacks, their wives and kids kept going deeper in Thailand, and we walked into Burma. And that was really the beginning. Although we didn't know it yet of the freedom Rangers, and we treated Ilya basically treated over 1100 people that week, and I held the IV bags and support them. And later step by step people begin to join us from Qur'an from the crannie. Later, the Shawn and kutchan mon Shan are a con la who, oh, on many, many ethnic groups. And we then thought, well, we have teams and ethnic leaders asked us to train them. And so we trained, what we call holistic relief teams, meaning they go into the frontline or the fighting areas to get help. That's medical help. That's other humanitarian help, such as clothes, tarps, mosquito nets, blankets, food, shoes, whatever people need. That's help cope, reminding people to not forgotten and love, remind them, God loves them, and we love them, and we'll stand with them. And also getting the news out, meaning that we document what's happening by writing down interviews, taking photos and videos, and getting the news out putting a light on the situation. So I boiled it down, it would be this health of people and get the news out. That's what we tell all the new Rangers once they graduate, if you forget everything, help the people and get the news out. So that's that's how we started in 93. And now, in 2021, we have over 100 belief teams from 13 ethnic groups in Burma. We also because of ISIS attacks in the Middle East, we were invited by people who knew what we did in Burma, they said, Hey, you don't have any safety rules Come over here. There's no non governmental organizations on a real frontlines come and help. So in 2015, we took some of our Burman medics who are excellent, and went from Southeast Asia, to the Middle East, which was, to me a miracle from God that we could do it. And we started working in Syria, Iraq, and later on in Kurdistan. So now we have an Iraqi and Kurdish team in northern Iraq and a Syrian team in Syria, one each and we have 100 teams in Burma. So we go in between those teams, training them, encouraging them, getting them support, and someone just asked me, Hey Dave, where Are you? You're in America, how can you be in America, I said,  my teams do not depend on me. They depend on God and each other, my job is to encourage them, pray for them and send them money. And then I love walking with Him. I do that I spent eight months, most of the last eight months in Burma walking from place to place, I love it. And I can do some things. But they don't wait for me. They do their own great job better than I could. So we have very good teams in Burma, which is our main area, but also in Iraq and Syria. And that leads us up to right now, we've got a volunteer staff, about 30 to 40 unpaid volunteers, who, from all over the world to come and support those teams in Burma in the Middle East.

Host  15:42

Right. And there's this great scene in the Amazon Prime documentary, where one of your Burman medics is and I think Iraq and he that he's meeting some of the fellow medics or soldiers that you're working with, and there's this kind of some side chatter that the camera catches of the Iraqi saying, Well, you know, where are you from? And the guy says Burma and the Iraqi kind of looks at him and he's Burma, like you know, really and he says something to him like you know, but from what I know of Burma like you guys have a lot of problems there's a lot going on how are you over here helping us and there's the this this great exchange of just being dumbfounded that these these other people from a war torn country at least as far as he knows the headlines have somehow coordinated and managed to leave their own situation in crisis and come and help with another and sister just this beautiful exchange.

David Eubank  16:36

Yes, I love that as well. And then the one thing where Ilia de Matic says you eat bread we eat rice. And right yeah, it's one of the greatest gifts of going to the Middle East was loving the Iraqi people we all I fell in love with them so did our teams from Burma just wonderful people. So and the same in Syria but again, we work in both places but our main efforts for him

Host  17:05

What a mix of people and cultures that are meeting and connecting and and then through all of this you your family has been with you all the way a wife and three kids so what was it like for you to make the decision to bring your family and your kids at different ages and different needs through you with you on all these adventures?

David Eubank  17:24

While we first got involved Karen and I didn't have kids and we just went and Karen is very fit and a brave lady although you know she is so sweet sauce and cod you and think she could do anything she's small five foot two and 95 pounds and she can carry a huge loads like an amp. And she doesn't like guns and things that go bang but she she'll and she will flinch, but she will not run away. Those are my kids. They're those kids in Burma like my kids. So later on when we had kids, they the people and they I think people already knew us because we've been trucking around with them for a while. And when we had kit when when current Karen was pregnant was to Haley our firstborn. The ethnic people said Oh, when the baby's born please bring her to us. It's like our daughter is like one so when our daughter was born, we thought well we can't set up tells people No, it's not safe enough for archaea but it's saying that would be crazy. Second, we really love them we want to show them our daughter third we like to be with our kids we don't want to be separated we do with them. And we have to quit or get the sick from somewhere else. And then third as we went we thought this is the coolest life I couldn't do them. And you know running around in the jungle that carried on our backs. The first thing you have hundreds of aunts and uncles from different ethnic groups that love and care for them and and will die for them to learn how to ride horses from an early age use a machete make a shelter, make a fire, pot and fish like a native. So that's a great gift. At the same time we even before so Haley was born and we have three kids Haley Suzanne and Peter now we thought what if one of our kids dies? Could we live with each other? Can we live with ourselves? What happened to us when we fall apart? So it's not a it's not I like saying Yeah, I remember we were talking about that. And my wife Karen said Dave we should not live by all the what ifs that can happen the bad things that might happen and they could but live by the opportunities God gives you and here's an opportunity to raise our kids in a wild place to learn from the native people their how to live and love each other you know there's no locks on the doors in most of current state where we go because there are no doors How is

Host  19:44

this gonna say that right? There's I know there's village homes. There's a lot, not a lot of doors to begin with.

David Eubank  19:48

No, not up in the mountains. So people don't generally do not steal from each other. Yeah, perfect humans. But they're the graciousness and the love they exhibit and the skill woodsmanship that they have. It's just great for our kids. And  my kids love it, you ask them worse home, they'll say Burma. And they grew up riding horses and climbing in the trees and doing all kinds of things, learning how to not just survive, but thrive in the jungle, and most of all, to love.  People have other groups. In fact, when they came back to the States, one year, we watched one of the rocky movies, boxing movies, and it was rocky or somebody fighting a black guy. And my kids all voted for the black guy were white, but my kids, all of them voted for them and a black guy showed why because all their aunts and uncles have been brown or black or something. So they really identified and my kids are white Caucasians. But they've learned you can't judge someone by the color of their skin or their bank account. I mean, right now we're in Cody, Wyoming. We just came back the states. We're on our second week. And my kids are really good writers. They play my two girls just started Texas a&m, and they play Polo. They're just because they're really good. And my son rides, steers, bowls, ropes, he does all kinds he 15. So Sally, the oldest is 20. Suzanne just turned 19 two nights ago here and did a great barrel racing run and P 16. But we got here we have to borrow horses. We have seven horses in Thailand. We've got 15 horses in Burma, we use. But we don't have horses in America, because we don't live here. And so we come here, we're totally at the mercy of the locals. And my kids have found out the people that have given them horses are not the rich people with lots of horses. For people, some don't live in trailer homes. And they have fine horses, because that's their passion. And then they lend them. I remember asking this one one actually, he's a Mexican from Mexico. I don't even know if he has a right ID card. He's here in America working hard, and rodeoing. And I said, You let my kids borrow your money horse. He goes, it's not my horse. It's God's horse, and I share it. And I let my kids learn that too, right here in Cody, Wyoming, that you can't judge someone by, by anything by their actions. And so that's that's a blessing. So yes, it is hard and sometimes scary with our kids. But when the Battle of Mosul happened, and ISIS was taking over parts of Iraq and Syria, we were invited to go we went with our family. Now my wife and kids were not kicking open doors and running with me with the Iraqi army into the literally into the face of ISIS. But they were back we have a kind of idea of if there's a family there, our family can be there. There's no families, you just much men fighting that my family is not needed. They can do but get killed. So my family will be back with the displace people who just fled the city, they may be back 500 yards or a mile at a casualty collection point. Helping administer first aid both my daughters are are pretty practical nurses now not was training is by action. In the last year since they've been teenagers, they've been treating wounds, learning how to suture getting IVs there, they're pretty competent. In fact, right now at a&m, they're studying pre veterinary medicine, and nursing. So but they work at that my mom and my wife, you know, just conference people, and then they also coordinate the food and water deliveries with our support team. So there'll be the back, some of our men and women who are in sport side with my family be back behind the front line, I'll be in the front line with our top medics. And the not only then I get to see them every now and then. But again, they learn something else, and they can contribute. And remember, you know, I just go through the Rockies the Rockies are like you bought your family. You must think Americans are the same value as the Rockies in God's eyes. You bought your family to be with our families don't feel like trash anymore. We feel like we must count and then one man's one Kurdish leader said you brought your son your most precious thing I give you my most precious thing my country. And in Sudan we've worked in Sudan before we were bombed every day there was in the new mountains and the leader of the new band said you brought your family that means you don't want anything from us. There's no raise you're all in there. So that's not why we take them and that's in a surprising blessing to really you know, then people aren't very afraid of us like well you have a family you can't be that crazy and because and they never you know people have criticized oh why do you take your family never have the locals done that it's only been foreigners who aren't their privilege it's kind of like if your house was burning down your whole neighborhood burning down and a family pulled up in a truck and start helping you and say send your kids back you see a thing that everybody's hearing right so that's that's how it's been. But mission is different and we pray about every day we don't fire and forget we don't say well work yesterday. We'll do it today we look at every day we pray worship the family be

Host  24:54

and what languages have your kids grown up to learn?

David Eubank  24:57

Well, we don't mind have many British genes because the Brits seem to learn like 10 languages. Look at all the explorers are still real American. So we don't know that many. But my kids grow up speaking. Well English, and then they speak Thai. And they speak Korean. That's the main three. And they speak a little bit of Burmese not much. And they know some phrases than Kurdish in Arabic. And I'm kind of the same. I can I can get around in a Thai is my first language I grew up there, Thai than English, and then Korean, we can speak pretty well, because we've spent a lot of time with those people, those three and then we know a smattering of get around Arabic, Kurdish. And what was it was the first group we met. So we actually learned their language first.

Host  25:44

Yeah, that was the next question I wanted to ask. So you spent time with a number of these ethnic groups and many of them are really not so properly understood or reported on. So I just want to take a moment to learn a bit about your experiences with them. And again, this is the kind of thing that could be an entire episode just talking about one after the other after the other and learning more about who they are and what your experiences with them. But I'm wondering if you can just pick a couple of groups that you spent more time with. And for listeners who might not really have ever heard anything about them, share a bit about their culture, their community, just something you've learned and come to appreciate something some unique quality that you've you've forever taken with you after spending time with this group or that group.

David Eubank  26:28

Thanks. You're a great interviewer. Great voice Thank you. Well, I think I'll start with a Karen because we spend a lot of time with them. I think if he chose one word with a Karen it'd be harmony. And so that means that they have disagreements, they try to find compromises that don't compromise the virtues they may compromise some values but they don't compromise the principles, you know, principles and virtues being integrity, love, courage, equality, but values are like safety, education, comfort, modes of movement, you know, because we value some over others but they are always striving for harmony. So for the Karen I think it's harmony and consensus in what they do would be the sum of the salient marks of the crane and then laughing and smiling all the time. I remember one time I was with a French he was an ex Foreign Legion fighter. And he'd helped the Karen as a volunteer fighter and then later started his own business and he said the Karen laughed at everything hmm even when there's a tragedy laughs which is true and he said and then later on his his restaurant burned down in Nassau Thailand and he said you know what's gonna happen with a credit come today and see my burned down restaurant this a couple of marks words and then they start laughing. And so sure enough, like an hour later, one of the top Karen leaders to to lay shows up. I'm very sorry about your restaurant burning down. And the French guy was so mad, because that's my restaurant. What if I said your mother died, your mother died? And she goes What? Because your mother died he goes ah and so everything. They also cry, you know, at losses, but they're always finding like, I remember once a treat, we were with some IDPs. They're chased by Burma army barely survived just what they could carry. I was helping carry some of the kids on my shoulders with their baskets. And with fleeing to the jungle we get to this big river and has a sandbar in the middle we cross the one one branch the river into the sandbar cross the other. I set up a little like lean to the middle of sandbar with our team. And then the villagers went into the treeline and both sides. Well a storm came up huge one and tree started to fall. And one pastor his name was br minor, very minor for y'all. Which means victory over the Burmese interesting name. Wow. And he's a funny guy. And he put all his possessions which his family's possessions which were about four baskets of food plates, dishes, machete, flintlock musket for hunting pieces of plastic blanket, rice salt margin and fishing that all all his survival stuff was in a few baskets and he put them next to a big tree and then all of a sudden that tree snap 700 feet tall and it fell and the family jumped out of the way but they're all their goods were crushed and this is trees like a redwood I mean it was probably diameter 10 feet 20 feet a huge and any look and everybody look and that's like insult to injury you know you've just sled you're soaking wet. You only have these possessions now they're buried under this tree. instead of complaining like God hates me or there is no God or there's not right he just looked around laughs He goes, look, God gave me firewood. And that's a very Karen. I was at a house once and and one of my kids broke a dish. They go oh look now we have Two dishes so they keep choosing to last and I think that's the correct harmony and humor  the kitchen more stern but very brave very aggressive and you can look right now at what's happening in Burma they are the taking it to the Burma army so that chin are very fearsome, very brave but also very hospitable hospitable and very straight shooters that why they're big fighters to their big white one guy said you know the Wa we don't know how to cook we don't know how to make anything fight and we really good at dying. And pretty, pretty courageous and also straight shooting a Sean Sean are like the Thai gentle, trying to find compromise, non confrontation, trying to smooth away through trying to see both sides. And also quick to last and very welcoming. And also very productive, mostly laid down in the plains. those are those are some of the groups that Chen mostly a Christian 90 some percent and love to sing, and the art icon, the icon to me, they're quick witted, and they they're happy to argue any topic in free, and they're quite smart. And they also know how to move in they need to move. So those are you know the aka one of the poorest tribes, but also very generous and smiling people's Allahu probably the best hunters in Burma the least. But Allahu very good hunters. They're like a bunch of Davy crocketts. living amongst these people and growing up the current year, like the current by growing up amongst them, is just a blessing a diverse group of people. And in the end, we're all really the same deep down, but the cultures are different. And then propensities are different, but we enjoy being with all of them.

Host  31:53

As someone who's a bit of a foodie and always somewhat interested in what kind of strange and interesting and creative things you can find when it comes to food and different cultures tell us a bit about some of the more unique and tasty or even not tasty food concoctions you've been able to have as you've traveled through these tribes.

David Eubank  32:12

Well you know, just like in America, the mountain people have less to choose from in terms of food but you can get some really good barbecue down and some other good game meat for example, the enseignement Burma the most the most varied and complex Dinah you're going to have is with the Berman's in the plains or the Shawn in the plains because they have long traditions and access to all kinds of foods and vegetables so you get the most complex foods there and to me overall the most tasty that's complete opinion but up in the mountains everybody cooked good in the end everybody has something that makes special and I love the Korean rice the Highland rice and I love how they cook wild game and they have a stew called Takaba which is a great kind of a thick rice porridge with meat and spices in it. The Shan cook like the ties I think it ties cook Great. So I love all their food the kitchen they have a lot of Chinese influence. And that's excellent. The the Arakan have a lot of Burmese and and Indian influence and they have the same kind of spices. It's all good. The mom the same all good food. I think the Burmese too it's a little heavier, sometimes a little sweeter than Thai food, but quite excellent. And of the strange foods. Of course there is the whole gamut of larva and worms that are used to start right. And insects of every kind of animal certified not stink bugs because they they probably poisoned you They certainly taste terrible. But crickets are great stir fried cricket is like eating a french fry or a peanut enrich and those are all good and very palatable. The insides of animals most Americans don't eat a lot of insights our ancestors did but we've kind of gone away from it. They're not my favorite but most ethnic groups eat the entire animal every piece of it is not my favorite probably the food I like least our intestines with the original occupants still in there. And oh, why it smells like it tastes which is bad to me. Some people love it. And they eat you know the CRAN and con la who will also eat dog. And then they'll say this. d o g good. And there's I've had some excellent dog sauces. I love dogs. I could never eat my own dog but I had some excellent dog sausage. And I think the worst thing I've ever tried and it was by accident, but there's a type of Monkey that the krenn like to eat but not just the monkey. They like to eat it's excrete mint. Boiled well because it eats us certain kind of leaf. And so the only thing I could compare it to, is something like the most strong cheese you can imagine. Right? And, and they would, and we would say that's the grossest thing ever eating monkey food. And they say, Are you kidding me, you take the dribbling out of a cow's otter and let it rot and you call, right? I think most people don't like the strongest cheeses. People, most krenn main, I like monkey poo, but those two things are delicacies. The culture you came from, I like really neither, I can go that cheese first. But um, anyway, those are, those are some of the things you can eat there.

Host  35:43

That's great. Thank you so much for that. It's gonna be hard. But I want to move to a bit more serious topics after that. Before we get into some of the more current events, and we've learned some great things about your background, so much of what you do in your humanitarian activities, your sacrifice, everything springs from your Christian faith. And so I'm wondering if you could share a bit about how your sense of faith in the religion and Christianity your identity as a Christian, how that goes into what you do and why you do it.

David Eubank  36:22

Thank you for asking that. That's the heart of why I do it is my belief that there is a creator god that made all people and gives us all freedom. And God has a way for us to live. That's good. We don't have to choose it. And I believe you're either part of building and being part of God's kingdom of good or you're part of a kingdom of evil, and there's no middle ground. And I'm not the judge necessarily where those lines are who's doing what, but I don't think there's a middle ground. I think you're either doing something for love and goodness, or it's the other thing. Now maybe a weak enough other thing that looks like middle ground. But I I there's a lady named Amy Carmichael. She was a British missionary in the 30s and other many good things he did in India. She helped stop the temple prostitution and the sacrifice, the sacrifice of girls. And the set D practices of burning widows alive is one of the main people to stop that by her love and presence and, and diplomacy and doggedness. But she said this, while we're counting the cost, Satan is busy buying up the territory. And so it's kind of like when you look at the dictators in Burma, they are not kidding. They have put your likes fortune and sacred honor on the table, and they're all in full on and do I want to, oh, my gosh, I get killed. If I do that, or I'll lose, you know, they're all in. If you think you're gonna take on evil halfway, you're gonna lose. I mean, the founding fathers of America, both the founding fathers and founding mothers, because he did it together. They, they said this on to this cause we put, we dedicate our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor. That's a lot. It's all us all human as my life, my money, and my reputation, I'm putting on the line, and they were fighting England, a real country. And they were called traitors, and they were probably going to lose, and it was a lot of faith. So I, I feel that God gives us all a choice to work for, for lover or work for hate, or kind of trying to chicken out and be in the middle. But he chickened out and say, Well, I don't want to do either. I mean, I'd rather love but I'm not gonna, you know, I don't want to take on the Burma army, or I don't want to stand against them in some way. I just kind of sit there quietly, you're going to be swept away by the forces of evil. And anyways, it's that I think Edmund Burke, you know, evil prevails, when good men do nothing, right? So stuff to me, I'm not good. So how can I do this work? And I mean, I do some good things, I think some good things. But I also think some bad things, I do some bad things, or some are muddled in the middle. So my experience was I asked God, I asked that, are you real? Jesus? Are you real? And my understanding is God made this world gave us total freedom. And we can do whatever we want. And we began to screwed up pretty fast with our freedom. And God sent His Son Jesus to say, if you want to know what john looks like, look at look at this. Look at him. That's me, in flesh. And Jesus said, I came to that all of the saints, not to condemn, but that people be convicted of their sin and all of the state. And so I believe God is a God of love. And I felt that love and when I asked Jesus, are you real? I felt something happened in my heart, in my soul. And so, I for me, Jesus forgives me and my sense, shows me my sense, and helps me move on. Where I don't have to make money. Or be good enough, I can just say I'm sorry to God and whoever I punish and manage consequences, you know, maybe you, you will be punished by people too. But at least I'm free. And then He leads me we all, I believe have a role in life. And we all have equally important roles, and they're different. And our role has been to stand with the oppressive Burma and well ever else who provided Sudan, Iraq and Syria, and remind them, God loves them. And also that, that, that the, the evil on this world is not in the end, our biggest enemy is not people. This is now this is just a faith statement. I can't prove it. But there are invisible powers that want to do us harm. And I would call them Satan and the demons and we can't necessarily fight them. They're spiritual, but God can fight him if we ask him to. And so I like what Alexander Solzhenitsyn said. He said, the line of good and evil is not between nations groups, or peoples or races. It's in the human heart. That means every day, I've got to look at my own heart, say, God, help me Forgive me this and usually come up with very tangible things. Like, I was rude to my wife, my, I told the truth, but I told it in a way that people believe I'm better than I am. Whatever it is, it's wrong. He brings it to my mind, I can say I'm sorry for it. And, and that's that line of good and evil sport. And remember, it's not just I'm the good guy, we're the good guys, for example, promare is all bad, right? And the other thing, Solzhenitsyn said, I like he said, in the worst person, there's a shred of good, always left, and the possibility for more good. And in the best person, there's a present shred of evil and the possibility for more. So we don't worship people. We try to love and forgive people and call each other there's something higher. And to me, that's something higher Scott, and people in called love or anything else they want. But for me, God has continually changes my heart for the better. So I serve him and I feel that God has led us to this. This work in Burma, and in submission to a mission to, to for freedom, for justice and for reconciliation.

Host  42:09

Yeah, so moving on to Burma and where we are now you've been in the country for a long time. You've personally been on the front lines of terrible ongoing war between ethnic groups and the tama da. How are you feeling now at the moment that we find ourselves in?

David Eubank  42:26

I think it's the worst I've seen since 1997, which was a major offensive. And in a way, it's worse than 97 offensive because 97 offensive was relatively localized the east. This is all over Burma. And the people that risen up, there's about 1000 been killed in the streets, men, women and children. There's over 200,000 displaced ethnic people. And the only thing that's slowed down the Burma army in the last couple of months have been the heavy monsoon rains, the strength of the resistance holding on. And I think people rising up in different ways all over Burma, have really kept the Burma military overextended. But I think it's the worst situation because you have all these displaced and killing, I don't see an end in sight. There's no backing down. But the brutal military, and the international community has not taken much concrete action to help people under attack. So I feel right now it's the worst. Having said that, I'm really grateful. And proud of our teams. We've got these 100 plus teams, they're non stop working. I think you're on our reporting thread. There. I can't even sell the ports in time. There's photos doing kids programs, people hiding in the jungle, they're handing out tarps and food. We've been able to keep up with food and right and medicine distribution, even through all this displacement. And we're not alone. There's other groups like that krenn, Department of Health and Welfare. The committee for internally displaced Korean people, the Shawn Department of Health and Welfare, the Christian relief organizations, WPS, Christian, grey Christian group, and working in partnership with those groups. We've been really able to help a lot of people in this. I think I said earlier one on one person's question, the A wants you there, I need to see you, you know, I said, it doesn't depend on me, our teams function really well without me. And they do most things better than I can. I love to be there. But my main job is to pray for them, support them and speak for them. So I see the situation is worse than than I almost ever seen it. But I see hope because our teams are doing a great job that people that they're helping haven't given up. And the people in the cities they have not given up. I don't think they're going to give up.

Host  44:37

You've referenced before how amazing it's been to hear young Bomar especially from Generation Z coming forward and apologizing for the ways that ethnics have been treated and pledging to do better for yourself. What is it been like to hear that and how have you seen it received from the ethnic people? And have you ever heard anything like this before and all your years there

David Eubank  45:01

I have not heard this before, ever. And there's a unity now that I've never seen in Burma nor have ever heard of there be. And we've been over 25 years involved in Burma. And in my reading before that, I didn't see it. And so ethnic Berman's will come to our camp and say thank you for saving us. You know, we didn't even try to save the current people and they save us and deserve their help, but we're really grateful. And now we will stand for a federal democracy, meaning the ethnics must have their rights. And it's federal democracy first is not a democracy that's federal. And so the federal part the, the elements of self determination, those are crucial and this is what many Berman's are pushing for and willing to even fight for. And they said things like, we had no idea how bad it was, until our own police arrested us and killed our parents and grabbed our uncles and put them in jail and tortured them. And then we thought this is what's been happening to the ethnics all along. And we didn't lift a finger we're so ashamed. So please give us a second chance and the ethnics have been really amazing. To watch the ethnic scale, you know, we cannot be petty, we cannot let bitterness even though we don't trust these people. And they had never helped us. And they're probably only helping us because they're in trouble. We have to, for the sake of our own hearts, and also for any hope of any future. We need them and they need us. So we've got to accept our apologies and find ways to work together.

Host  46:33

That's amazing. As this coup has played out, many of these Bomar activists have been struggling with this question of violence or non violence. In the beginning, in the first few months, we saw overwhelming non violence. But then of course, the military began shooting people on the street. And that being said, of course, there's been armed strife going on for many years. 72 years was the number you just gave in the ethnic areas where it's initiated by the tomahawk. So this is nothing new for these groups that you're spending time with looking overall at this moment that we're in, what's your opinion on what would be more effective at this moment strategically for the people to win? And I should follow up this question by saying I understand this is not black and white. I think it's a false binary for people to look at the situation by saying you need to hold to Gandhian ideals or you need to have a full civil war with you know, everyone armed and fighting and IEDs everywhere. Obviously, there's there's something in between this, but looking at this question of, of, of nonviolent approach and the various ways of armed aggression. Where do you stand at what's necessary at this moment?

David Eubank  47:45

Well, for me, being someone that believes that God answers prayer, my first response is pray, God, what do I do? How do I handle this? A bullet never changes the human heart ever. You never reconcile with someone by shooting them, you don't change their minds by shooting them. You sometimes have to stop them because they won't stop like ISIS or sometimes Burma army. So the ideal is not to hurt anyone, but to find a way, find common ground, forgive each other compromise negotiate. Sometimes, though, that doesn't work because people on the other side will not have it. ISIS would not do that. The Imperial Japanese Army was not about to compromise in the end of the war, the Nazis. You brought Gandhi well, Gandhi was a very different situations with the British, the British have a whole different code of conduct and it wasn't in their country. I can work there. But it does, it wouldn't work in North Korea. It wouldn't work in China. It wouldn't work in anywhere. There's a totalitarian dictatorship. I've never seen it work with their stops alternate dictatorship, we're only seeing these rooms, where there's some kind of Judeo Christian ethnos with some kind of democracy behind it. We you know, that the opposing parties and different ideas. So that's so in terms of what do you do when you're in Burma? I think it's prayer and like you pointed out, it's not black and white, or maybe sometimes you fight maybe sometimes you don't. But for me, I think our approach to the military is is to hand. One hand says, Let us forgive each other and find a way in difference. We don't hate you. We will not hate you. No matter what you do to us, we won't you don't want to be bound by that. We love you. And let's and we love you enough to say this doesn't work and we will not let it work because this is a wrong way to govern. We so it's not just we're opposing you. Because we want to save our lives and freedoms because it's not good for you either. So on one hand, we'll let's talk be friends. On the other hand, if you will not talk and you will come to my house and arrest my wife or beat my door down. I'm gonna fight and that means you die or I die. bill that's better than letting you do this evil. So I think it's a two ways. And so sometimes you'll be able to talk, sometimes you go and negotiate other times you'll have to fight. But I think the people on the ground that to make those decisions, we can't make it for him, even when I'm on the ground there. I just pray day by day, what do I do. And normally I, I don't fight not because I don't believe it's effective. Because we don't have, we don't have the role to do that. And we don't have this support to do it. So there are people who are fighting at Braemar, mostly the ethnic armed groups to have some weapons and ammunition systems. But then there's many of these public defense groups that have come up very poorly armed, they're very motivated, that this will not stand, the oppression will not be allowed to go unchecked, we die, we die, we don't want to die. But we will not let this go on for the good of our family and friends and people, but also for the good, even our own army, it's not good to let them run rampant like this. So to me, it's case by case per by prayer, or decision.

Host  51:06

Right, so you talked about some of the rise of these PDF, the people's defense forces that are getting some training, trying to get some access to either to get weapons or to make their own. And there's someone like yourself from a military background, I'm wondering what your view on this is, on one hand, it's been, these groups have been seen as possibly critical to being able to form the resistance up and down the country in every community, small and big. A concern that's been launched about some of the work they're doing is that they, for one, that they these are groups that do not have any background or training and it could actually be more dangerous to have people who don't who haven't been through the certified training to be able to know how to you how to do what they're doing, they could actually be of more damage to themselves. And another concern has just been the proliferation of so many groups that are now having access to, to some kind of armed resistance, and this is all playing out in front of us. And these groups are actually so diverse and scattered and, and forming and align in different ways that no one really exactly knows what's all out there and what they're all doing. But what are your thoughts about the the process of these groups for me, and then of them getting training and arms? How do you see this, this development?

David Eubank  52:34

Well, I think that's up to each individual, how they're going to respond. And they know the risk. And that's up to them. I think that so I support their their their basic human rights to defend themselves as a fundamental right. I think that war when you're fighting a government with a standing well organized, well supplied army, it takes a lot of forethought, training, plans, tactics strategy, and then practice going out and practice what you're going to do. You cannot just fight a war on emotion or the idea that you're right alone. That doesn't stop the bullets and it doesn't make you an organized fighting force. Because when you fight an army they're organized and they'll keep coming so I think that it's their right to stand up and fight I hope that if they do they pray again not to hate the Burma army even as they fight because they don't want to become like the the prey to keep their hearts open with love even if they fight and also to pray for the right strategies and supporting tactics and then to practice them and then to think what Okay, so I'm gonna attack this bridge and and Burma army outposts here today, okay, that'll hurt them. And that's a payback or they killed my friends and maybe they won't control this bridge and we can slow down the resupply. But then they should be thinking the next step Oh, well then when they do that, the Burma army go another way, take 100 we're gonna blow that up the same time. Then when the reinforcements come, we're gonna ambush them. And then when those reports come, we're gonna ambush them with that all those like that's four different actions. Those take planning and rehearsing you can't just say you you do this, I do that here. It will be confused and disorganized. And so I think having in depth plans and then practicing them on the grounds, rehearsing them, that's crucial. If you got you deploy.

Host  54:44

You've talked a couple times just now about even as one is resisting the Burma army that it is being done as much as possible without hate in one's heart with holding the hand open for forgiveness as as much as possible. Trying to have I have that nonviolent option. And I want to go a bit deeper into that possibility. So an important part of the Buddhist faith is letting go of negative feelings of anger and resentment, hatred, etc. with the understanding that these defilements are only burning the person that's holding on to them no matter what circumstances they're in. And although I'm not Christian, myself, I understand that the role of forgiveness is a very important part of the Christian faith. So where I'm going with this is how a person of faith whether it's Buddhist, or Christian, or Muslim, or something else, responds in the face of pure evil, as we're finding in the case of the Tomica or ISIS, as we might train our minds as practitioners of the faith, when we're actually faced with this abject cruelty and inhumanity, it becomes more challenging to really follow these religious edicts and truly detach from our anger and move past hatred for forgiveness. So I'm curious on a personal level, or either speaking for yourself or seeing the, from the groups that you're in contact with, and helping that that suffer even more, because it's their home? How does this Christian faith inform you? Or how have you seen it inform them as to how to actually respond to these manifestations of evil? And how does one strive to follow it?

David Eubank  56:26

Well, I think first is communication, communication with God, by prayer, God, what do I do? What what's what's These are your children to the enemies, your children to? What do I do? What's the way of love What's with truth? What will make a difference? So I think the first thing is prayer. And then the second thing you pointed out some tenants or some practices of Buddhism, where you try to get rid of negative thoughts, because they're just gonna hurt you. I think that's true. And, and so letting go of those. And for me, it's asking God to identify those and let them go. And trusting God will show you and we'll have something for you at the end also. And then I think it's asking the question among yourselves, when your group family, what's the most loving thing I can do? And I and I am not sure what the answer will be. But most of the time, that's something conciliatory that's an olive branch put out that's a helping an enemy, you don't want to help as a treating a wounded you didn't want to treat, that's giving, giving assistance to somebody that is your enemy. That's most of the time and those things break down walls of hatred and open up new relationships. But sometimes, the most loving thing to do is fight. I remember in the Battle of Mosul, ISIS came around the corner, I was sitting with Iraqi officer, they came around the corner and surprised us, they shot him six times, three in the chest, two in the arm, one in the leg, shot another guy shot me wants in the arm, and they were had this look of Glee, like just happiness on the face. One guy was yelling, Allahu Akbar, God is great. And behind me were a bunch of more soldiers. And they thought it was a suicide car plus infantry coming. So they go out of the way, not only it's only three guys with guns, but they were all hiding in there around in that little carport. At that moment, had me had to make a decision. What do I do, and this happening really fast because they're standing seven yards, advancing, the four yards are walking and shooting right up to me. I'm sitting on the ground. And I just remember thinking I'm dead. And I said, God helped me and I brought my rifle up and I wasn't dead, and I shot the first guy and then went to the next guy, and that's actually when I got shot by him, shot me in the arm round came off the weapon and put it back on to Okay, well, it's not broken, shot him. And the third guy who'd walked up within four yards of me, which is really close shooting kept missing me, and his eyes went wide. When I was still alive. My buddy was shot laying there and I was struggling, my buddy shot this guy, and it was more of them around the corner. And they kept coming and I kept shooting, like throwing hand grenades by now. And the man who was shot next to me, Lieutenant Hussein said doe doe that's my name in Arabic David, go Don't leave me Don't leave me uncle Don't leave me and I said, I can't help you. Unless I stopped by ISIS. Can I keep coming? Let me standing or responding now. throwing grenades and shooting and yelling for help via got help. And the people that helped me was my Christian. Video man and medic named Xiao sang from kitchen state, and one is a devout Christian. He later died in Syria. And the other one was Justin, Justin D. Moran bill who is an atheist, and ex US Army marine. And he helped he came out in the street and help me drag Lieutenant sane in number fire and save his life and soon, even all those wounds. And I said, Justin, you don't believe in God. But you know, love and God is love. There's no way you would have come on the street all his bullets except for love. He goes, yes, I did it for love. I said, Well, you know, God that. And so I think there are times and I thought later, you know, if I hadn't shot those guys, they would have definitely shot me killed me they're killed, the guys behind me would have killed Justin's out and everybody else hiding on the corner. And then it would have kept killing and killing and killing until they were killed. They made that decision, they probably made a decision I can see on their faces, right? So I think there is a time to fight. I think it's the last one is the last thing Yep, you do?

Host  1:00:33

I'm asking this question as well, because I'm also thinking about another harrowing scene from the documentary that records you in real time learning that these two young kitchen girls whose photographs we see have been brutally raped and killed by the tatmadaw. And it captures your reaction as you're, as you're struggling with this intense anger, as you hear the news and admitting at this moment that what you would like to do is go and find the people that did that and kill them. And you I should say, you're not saying this as this is what we should do. Or what I'm going to do, it's actually a very raw and vulnerable reflection of this is how I feel this is how I feel right now. And it's almost like the in that moment the camera catches you, it's too much to process and all you can say you kind of don't say anything for a little bit. And then all you can say is this is how I I'm honestly feeling with with what's inside me. And so as I think about what you've been witness to, and then up against for so long, and where we're at now with what we're seeing in front of us this and going back to the souls needs and quote that you said of this, this this battle within each of us of when you're faced with this, this absolute evil in horror, that there are these these religious edicts whether whatever the religion is that is is is calling on us to follow both ethical codes as well as a higher spiritual plane that we're striving for. But yet, when you're in this moment of seeing to you young, innocent, beautiful kitchen girls that are I think they were teachers in their local community, and you find out what they've been subjected to, it's really hard to I can't imagine how one brings back the focus on those religious and spiritual teachings and path that want to striving to follow.

David Eubank  1:02:27

Yeah, when I saw that picture, it's not the one. I mean, the one you see in the movie is has been cleaned up and censored. I saw the uncensored picture of their naked bodies. It's hard for me to talk about crying because I have two daughters, 20 and 19. Now, and those girls are about the same age. Volunteer teachers go on to help people. And they were raped and then beat to death and the big stick and the stick is there. You can see it's covered in blood bigs that big club, that one girl's fingers are all broken worse, it's up in front of her face when she tried to shield her head. And I saw that my I just wanted to cry. I thought wow, who did this to pay? Even more important than paying at a stop? And I remember just showing this picture to our team and saying how does it make you feel? And I could see their faces? Kill every Burmese soldier, right? And that's how I feel like kill all the men that come I'm Superman and not because I'm perfect. This is just wrong. It can't. So I got on my knees and I just said, God, help me I hate these guys. I want to kill all Help me. Help me forgive them. At the same time, stand for what's right, and not let other girls like this die. I don't know how to do that. That was my prayer. And it relieved me. I believe that God do that prayer will lead me in hatred and bitterness, and not relieve me of the cause call for justice. throughout the Bible. And throughout Christian and other history. Humans have been ordered and mandated to act justly to stand for justice. That's a human endeavor and human responsibility. You must be able to respond to justice. But revenge belongs to God. Hmm. And the only way the only way justice works is with love. Revenge. If a human tries it's just hate driven. And we're in like you said earlier about the Buddhist tenants I will just hurt you. Yeah. And so but justice we're called to and that may cost you your life. It may cause you to take someone else's life. You know, you're fighting the Nazis regarding concentration camps, slaughtering Jews. Some of those guys you can't talk to him. Yeah. And you're In our country, in America, there are some people who are really bent on evil, and they will not be stopped except with the bullet. So I think those are the tragic realities. But I think if I, when I pray, and ask God to help me, he shows me away. Most of the time this way, I don't have to fight. But I have fought, I fought in Burma and I fought multiple times against ISIS in in the Middle East. And when afterwards over, I would pray for these people as if I'd killed them, which I did in in, in the Middle East ISIS, I pray for them, I pray for their families. I just said, God, forgive them, help us meet and have in one day, not based on what they did, but based on your love and mercy for them and me. And so I, I had experienced asking Jesus to take away revenge and hatred, and he did in my heart, and I never have hated sense that prayer, ISIS, that's my prayer, I don't want to hate ISIS or Burmese military, because I'm not perfect myself. And I don't want that hatred to consume me. So I just pray for love. And I think you can fight even with love. Just like you have kids, you sometimes have to take some Stern, disciplinary measures, you know, just one example, the one of the three year old is going to burn their hand on the stove, and really burn it, you're gonna take physical action, you're gonna grab that kid, now, they may not look that violent, because you're so much stronger. But you are using physical force to stop them from doing what they want to do. So it's just a matter of scale. But you're doing it because you love them. And so you know, as you go further down that line of thinking, Okay, now, because you're not killing them. Well, you know, with someone like ISIS, liberal military, you might have to shoot them to stop them. But you're doing it finally, because that could it's good to do because there's no more, no more loving way to do it. That's what they're asking for, and they gonna keep destroying people until they're stopped. So I believe there's a time to fight and kill. But I think that's a minority time. I think most people, when they can see the evil they're doing will be sorry, if you give them away out of forgiveness. So that is the thing I pray for. And I found, for me, a supernatural power of Jesus that helps me do it in spite of myself. And I get that by asking to as a Jesus help me obey you.

Host  1:07:25

This might be an impossible question. I don't know if the answer to this would be on a worldly or spiritual plane, maybe both. You could take it as you well. What do you think it is that makes the time and also cool?

David Eubank  1:07:38

But I think it's a number of things. I'll start with the spiritual. I think there are powers and principalities who can't see in this world and there's God and there's angels and there's demons and there's devil the devil and so I think one is there's a spiritual influence that they may not be aware of that when they don't fill their heart with lava, the thing something else will come in to fill that heart. So I think there's the power of the demonic which in my experience, can be defeated in Jesus name. And so there's that that reason the kind of the invisible supernatural Another reason is pride or racism you know, racial problems in America, they tell about black and white Well, in Burma's brown and brown race, racism isn't about color. It's about I think my group is better than your group. And that's you can go to Africa, where it's black, black, and they hate each other this tribe at that tribe Burma, you got brown people fighting brown people in America, we had something called a civil war white spot whites and Europe's full whites fighting whites. So anyways, I think racism is a part of it. In this case, it's the Berman tribe, thinking they're superior and want to crush the ethnic tribe. So there's racism, pride, I think, greed, they want what they ethnics have, they want that gold, they want the teak they want the minerals, they want the beautiful land. So greed is another reason. And then the love of violence and dominating. And so when you have this demonic influence, you have greed, you have pride, you have racism, you have this love of violence, a domination all that together causes you to take things from people including their lives. When you do that they often resist and fight back and are very angry. So now you're afraid of them because they're going to kill you because of what you've done to their family. So fear is another motivator. I got to beat these guys for they get me and and then a false sense of patriotism. This is the this country belongs to Burma, it must be Burman. It doesn't matter what the ethnic groups are. This is our country. And all those I think are factors and then they don't see a way out. And then after some time, they're not just afraid. Let's say you've killed one of their buddies. Now they're genuinely mad at you and they want that death. So there's hate, there's revenge, there's fear, there's greed, there's pride. I think those are the factors that contribute.

Host  1:10:13

So let's take a moment to look at the wider international community. Aside from statements of concern and sanctions that we're seeing, there's almost a total lack of engagement that at least I'm seeing from the outside world. And I'm wondering if this has surprised you, and what types of involvement you might like to see.

David Eubank  1:10:34

Thanks. Yes, it has surprised me because the coup of February, the first this year was evil, devastating and very public. Asan. Suchi, a Nobel Prize winner, and leader of the democracy movement in Burma, forcefully arrested. And most of the leadership of the National League for Democracy and other pro democracy parties were arrested or had to run their lives, some are captured, tortured, and killed. Now up to about 1000 men, women and children gunned down to the streets, 200,000 displace that's on top of over a million displace on for the past few years. So that's a human tragedy. And looking at the positioning of Burma, right, between India, Bangladesh, and Thailand and with China and going down to the Indian Ocean, it's a strategic, important place, politically, economically. And most of all, human human needs and what's right and wrong. So I've been surprised by the coverage in the beginning, that was some it's Wayne. Now, you know, this week, as we talk, Afghanistan is blown up. So I can really understand that that's just a nightmare. What's happening there. But Burma is still a crucial problem has not gotten better. And my encouragement is for journalists to go there, or go near there and tell the truth in love, or look at that many good and variable reports coming out and pass them on. In terms of what you want people to do. For me, I think the first is prayer. For me, I pray God, please help us do this the right way, please help us have freedom and justice and reconciliation in Burma. The second thing is direct humanitarian assistance. That's to the people in the cities and streets. And there's ways to get that there, as well as to the ethnics in the mountains who are under attack. So, so humanitarian assistance, second is political recognition. We would like the US and other countries and the United Nations to represent to recognize the national unity government in Eugene, not because they're perfect, because no government is, but because they're the best thing we have right now, to represent the cause of freedom in Burma, as the same time to recognize the ethnic armed groups. We've been struggling over 72 years of what is the longest civil war in the world. And these are groups their their variety of ethnic groups and governance systems. But most of them have some form of democracy that can you for example, the Korean National Union, every two years, they have local elections every four years, they have large national elections. So in whatever way they organize, the ethnic groups represent their constituency pretty well. So to be recognized as such, and have the energy recognized, and then to host meetings between the in Eugenia ethnic groups of how to help these on top of the direct humanitarian assistance. And then the last thing is intervention. I think when you watch kids, women, men get dunked on down on the street, you can't just say, well, we could do nothing. You may not be able to everything, but you do something, whether that's providing assistance to the people resisting the government, or some kind of intervention. That's, that's important. So those are the three things we ask for is for things prayer, direct humanitarian assistance, political recognition of the pro-democracy groups that make an Berman, and intervention indirect or direct.

Host  1:14:19

Yeah, thanks for that. That's looking at the picture of what's going on now. And if we were to fast forward, and imagine what a new Burma could look like, should victory come to the people. So having spent so much time there yourself in the ethnic areas and understanding their needs and concerns, what do you think their vision might be and I understand these groups are very diverse, so it's not monolithic, but to any degree, you can speak for their vision for what kind of post Tomahawk country they might like to build and live in.

David Eubank  1:14:55

I think in the past, most ethnic groups were fighting For complete independence or own countries, and now it seems that most ethnic groups are fighting for self determination with Ana federal Burma. That's the compromise that most ethnic groups will give. Not all, but but most, and what they'd like to see whether its independence or autonomy within a federal system is the right to their own language, the right to their own justice system and policing, the rights of their own foreign interaction economically and politically, the right to worship as they feel LED, and all that within a framework of a representative democratic country with something akin to the Bill of Rights. In other words, something that protects you from democracy itself, because democracy has to be more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. So looking at how, in this self determined area where we can all have a say, how do we also protect the minorities within the minority areas, for example, in Shawn's state, or even current state, it's not just current or shaunda. There's other ethnic groups that are minorities within a minority area. So I think most ethnics would like self determination with a with democracy, but also some guarantee for ethnic rights. And they're willing to do that within a framework of a federal Burma. So everyone has their their place. And I believe that's what the new G is now standing for, which is new, generally, for a Berman group from the majority ethnicity, which is the Berman's to stay Yes, we want a federal system

Host  1:16:49

strikes me not just as really wonderful and stupendous on the part of Myanmar that they're trying to aim for this and trying to build this. But it almost seems like this is something that would go in the history books of the entire region, that something like this would even be possible and would be a beacon and a way to show the world what was possible in ways that I don't know if anyone could have ever predicted could happen. I mean, it could be a signal for many others in the region of what was even a possibility here.

David Eubank  1:17:23

Yes. And Burma has one of the most diverse populations with over 100 different ethnic groups, and many different religions and many different histories, all together in one country. And right now, I think it's a wonderful opportunity to support the people of Burma, as this is the first time I've ever seen the unity that I see now between the ethnic Berman's and the ethnic minority groups where the Brahmins are saying, We're sorry, we always were just looking at our freedom and our life. Now we notice like to be under the oppression of your own government. Please forgive us we need to work together for a new federal union or Burma, not a union Burma this federal but a federal one first, and they put they put the emphasis there the Bermondsey, national unity government and others. And at the same time, they need the ethnics, they many of them have to escape to ethnic areas. So they have to get training there are their supplies come through there. And so they they need the ethnic people at the same time, the ethnic seeing them, because the ethics comprise 40 at most 50% of the population all together, but individually there, they are just representing small percentages, and have a country of about 16 million, the current I think, or maybe a 10 million. So Max, and so they all need each other and I think more than ever, both, both sides realize that the Burma pro democracy people and the ethnic pro democracy people. So I I think this is a good time for the international community to encourage that, but also take concrete steps direct assistance in the in the ethnic areas, as well as the cities and plains recognition and hold hosts meetings between the ethnic pro-democracy groups and the Berman's and I think that's helping them we can't solve their problems. But we can create a space to help them solve these problems. And there's nobody just doing this alone. There's other countries, Russia, China and other countries that are stepping in on the side of the dictators. So this is not something that we should just leave alone. We should help as much as we can with this with goodwill.

Host  1:19:48

Yeah, absolutely. And help them to achieve peace in their time and safety but also recognizing this as something of a beacon for humanity that this very thing happened there in the midst of the history in the region where it's taking place, it's just a, an opportunity, even for people not from that place that doesn't come along very often in our lifetime. And, as you mentioned, the diversity there is, is also something pretty remarkable. So on that note of being in country and having this wider and deeper experience of, of, of being on the ground and knowing things there. Even though even the people in the Burmese cities, those Berman's who haven't been in the ethnic areas don't necessarily understand the reality and the context in the way that you do and certainly knows ethnic villages, and you've been there for decades trekking across from one place to the other. So I'm wondering what you might like our audience to understand about the nature of the conflict, either what we're seeing now, or just what it feels like to have lived in those villages, for many of the residents for for their lives, that you feel are not really properly coming out by reading stories or seeing images.

David Eubank  1:21:10

Yes, people have different experiences and narratives and understandings of what their history is, and and then they have different experiences with the President. Reality is, I think for many of the ethnic groups, like them on the ark on the Quran, they feel and they can pretty much prove they were there before the the majority Berman's came in a few 1000 years ago. And so they feel like this is my home, not all of Burma, just the parts they're in. And then when, later on when that Berman ethnicity came in, in large population numbers. With expansionist stick ideas, and an aggressiveness similar to the Westerners that came to America, from Europe, my ancestors that were numerous and motivated and active and spreading out in this new land. I think the Berman's we're not that different in that sense, but then they meet the ethnics. And there's been war ever since all recorded history between the Berman's who set up a series of kingdoms and the ethnic groups and many of the ethnic groups have been enslaved and hurt badly by the majority Burman. Under these different kings. Well, World War Two comes up. And the Brahmins generally allied themselves to the Japanese thinking they'll throw the British out. And by then colonized Burma and the ethnics predominantly joined the British and Americans and the Allies because they said, when the British colonized Burma, it was like our father had come in to give justice one jot, or one denomination of money for you one for me, we're all the same. And then, as one leader said, America's like our mother, England's like our father, England brought justice and fairness. America brought education and a new way of looking at faith at God, above demons above the cycle of your karma. And depending on who was talking, most of the ethnics were not Buddhists. They were animist spirit worshipers, and they felt they they knew the loving God, but they felt separated and, and tormented, or oppressed by demons. This is what many ethics would say. So they said, Oh, we know about God. We've heard about Jesus, we've heard about the book. And we want to go that way. And that was there some spiritual aspirations. But then there was also things like education that came in with foreigners, and this idea that everyone was equal. But but on the Burman side is very understandable that like, we don't want to be under the British, we were running things. We don't like being out of these foreigners, we're Buddhist. And we have, maybe more importantly, we're Berman's we have our own way. And so when the Japanese came and offered independence, Berman's took it, and the ethnics join the allies with the end of the war when the Japanese were losing the Berlin switch sides and as a young son, the father of onside Suchi on sides the first he was the leader of the Burman group, and he was the first leader of modern Burma. When he said he was gonna squish size, the British said, Oh, you're only doing that because we're winning. He said, Yes. Why else would I do it? So because he's looking out what he thinks is the best interest of his country. So more cheese over independence comes to Burma. Burma is granted this freedom. But very quickly, the Birman majority begins to oppress the ethnic groups and their civil war up to this day 1949 to now 72 years and that War has not stopped. And what's really amazing to me is that the ethnics without any large scale, outside support had managed to keep fighting. I don't know if any guerrilla movement that's lasted that long without outside support. At the same time, they cannot defeat the series of dictators that have come to them. And I think bringing it up the present. This is the best opportunity that I've ever seen in my life. And, and I've read about because this, this standing against the cube is standing against against the regime, by people of all walks of life from all ethnicities is more united and sustained that I've ever seen. The coup start in February the first right after their protests, and then it was resistance. And despite crackdowns and slaughters by the Burma military, shooting rifle grenades into crowds, striking with airplanes attacking with tact helicopters, heavy artillery, in spite all that people haven't given up at all, there's more resistance groups that have sprung up. So at the same time, there's not much coordinated action between the different groups themselves and between the ethnic groups in those groups. Why is that? Well, because each group is very weak. There's no big outside support, they're just fighting to survive in their own areas. I mean, maybe it's useful, I think, remember World War Two, you know, France, was a pretty unified country in the sense that most people were the same race. Most people the same religion, with some exceptions, and kind of the same background and ideals. But when the Germans invaded, France not only tried to resist the Germans, they disagreed how to do it, there was there was Republicans, there were people who long for the old ways of the Polian, there were communists, they were anarchists. They were nationalists, there are all these different groups fighting the Germans, but they also didn't agree with each other. And, and the weight of the German army was so huge, they couldn't do much against it. And if you study World War Two, it wasn't until the Allied troops landed at Normandy, opened up a whole new front and Rudy and a break the German resistance, and at the same time, able to get more supplies to the resistance. This was the time when the just resistance began to be unified and had the material to fight together against the Germans. It was much more fighting against the Germans much more effective after that. So my point is to look at Burma and say, Oh, they should be unified. We can't even do that. Look at our own country in America, how unified are wheat, and food being crushed by an outsider, you may want, you have a common enemy, but you may not have the means to do things. So most of the ethnic groups would like to be more unified in acting more concert with other ethnic groups. But there's they barely have enough weapon systems, food and supplies to just defend themselves. So that's where we're at. And my prayer is that the Burma military will tire of killing their own people, and that they'll have less recruits, and that leaders within the borough government will realize this is not this is evil, and we're not going to win anyways. And then I My prayer is that people in the pro democracy side and the ethnic side can have mercy, and find a way to say how can we negotiate a different way. And I think for me, personally, that doesn't mean negotiating a compromise of a certain watered down dictatorship. It means negotiating an exit of the dictators with mercy for them to but but saying, on one hand, we love you, you're our family, we don't want to kill you will forgive you a lot of the hand, this government is not acceptable. You have to step down, and we can have elections and you can try again. But this way, it's not accepted as you doing both the same time.

Host  1:28:50

That's a great answer. Thanks. And I really appreciate you bringing into the sense of people on the outside, especially, I would say those with privilege and those who are able to have the luxury of certain opinions, with the safety and luxury of knowing that they have basic security and safety in their lives and are able to give these opinions to those who have never had that luxury and safety and don't have it now. And I think that what is really needed is to understand what what it is that people are going through how they feel what options are in front of them and understand how different the life looks there for those that are, are in a place where they have a sense of privilege and a sense of safety. And I also really appreciate bringing in the examples looking at it I've never thought of comparing it with France and that's that's really interesting to look at a country that is much more of the same type of people and background and all those different motivations that were happening at the time and how that splintered and this this is human nature and so to stand back away from that and be giving certain kinds of dictums or judgments of how things should be or how different groups that have their own unique history and perspective need to be working together. I think that, that you're you're really hitting on a powerful point that yes, things are not perfect, and governments are not perfect, and we know this, but that show us, show us a place and time or history that has had that sense of unification and, and done things the right way at every step. And you're absolutely right, this is the best we have. And let's support it in the ways that we can, that doesn't mean to just to to cover up the blemishes and pretended something it's not but at the same time to see the possibility, the potential and that bringing in good humanitarian values as a way to shape and work with what they're trying to do. That's not just unprecedented to Burma, but is again, I go back to arguing is pretty something that would stand out in the history books as being fairly unprecedented for what we see in any country anytime to be able to pull off. So I really do appreciate that point.

David Eubank  1:31:04

Thank you. Yeah. And I think also, we have to deal with reality, we can tell people, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't be that they're not. And then you have to ask yourself, How much do I care? What can I do? None of us can do everything. But but we can all do something about something. And to me, I just start with prayer. You know, we right now, for example, if Ghana stands raging, and our work is in Burma, and Iraq and Syria, not Afghanistan have been there numerous times. But this is not our role. But I'm also open, okay, you can blame lots of people. And I think the debate in Afghanistan, you can have a credible, rational debate whether we should stay or we should leave. But the way that we're leaving is absolutely immoral and competent. So, you know, what do we do about it? Well, maybe FBR will be involved in Afghanistan, like we are in Syria, but maybe not, maybe we don't have that capacity, maybe it's not our role. So my point of that is, there's lots of needs in the world. But when you feel called to a people, and you see a need you can meet, that's not, it's not helpful to start a numerating, all the things they should have done, because there wasn't a need, you don't need to be there, obviously, things are not right. So get used to it. And, you know, in our own country, we have a very unique beginning with, with pretty like minded people that first came over, at least in some groups, and a special group of people, mostly led by faith, and a different set of circumstances. But even then, on one hand, we left out some very important moral values, slavery being one of them. So have some huge blind spots. And but on the other hand, we still didn't do it along the French were very key in helping us get our country. If France had been fighting England, on and off the whole time, you know, just completely independent of us. And in concert with us, we don't know what kind of history this would be. I mean, probably America would eventually break free anyway, but we just didn't do it all by ourselves. And certainly, in World War Two, nobody did this by themselves, you know, as an American, it's, America was the most powerful and the most important of the Allies by far. But if the Russians hadn't been fighting, we, how many tank divisions they turn up in, in, in Russia. So my point is, we hope we're in this together, the people of Burma count. And I think the reasons to be involved in Burma, one is love, and human need, and it's right to help them second is geopolitical. For a free Burma is good for everybody in the world, even those that don't want that freedom, it's actually good for them. And an economically they are now you have a good partner right in the middle of Southeast Asia. So I think we have moral and political security, and economic reasons why we should be evolved, and the United States has the capacity to help even more. You know, one thing I have seen the US do, they've been very strong on condemning the dictatorship. They've been very supportive of helping people escape. And, and also it's providing some relief. So I think the US has done has done much good, but I think we could do more. And that's that's my request. And I think one of the things that requests is that recognize the ethnic armed groups and the nugee.

Host  1:34:35

And I'm also glad and hearing in your last Hawk, bringing in the personal with the wider international actors and where that all fits in because that's, those are the last couple questions I have to close out the interview was looking at your own engagement and your decision for engagement. And first, just simply speaking, learning about your story. I understand that service to Others plays a very outsized role in your motivation for life. And I'm wondering if you could share a little more about why this sense of service to others is so important to you and your family. Because let's be honest, this is not a value that is seen in every person, universally across the the extent to which you embrace the service to others in your entire family does is something unique. And so I'd like to hear from you and describing in your own words, why that value has become so predominant in your life.

David Eubank  1:35:36

Well, thanks. I think I was thinking as you're asking that, how encouraging you are, and also that the, the work we do is impossible without other people helping us. And so we're not we're just one part of it, a much larger team of people who care. And just this last Sunday, I was speaking at a church in Cody, Wyoming, we were in the us right now. And the kids are all rodeoing, the girls bale race, right steers and bowls. But right now he's focused on the roping. You know, you're riding this horse in open this year. It was fun, every night. And then on Sunday, I want to speak and as I walked into the church, before my turn to speak, I saw one of my friends show up, they only see once a year in Wyoming, he's a rancher. And I stepped out and hugged him. And we talked and guy side time before I was asked to go up. And he said, Dave, something I've been thinking about praying about it, you know, we're all servants. Tell me one job in the world, it's not a service. Tell me one. Second, president, he starts to serve the country, the janitor, he's supposed to clean up the country, the teacher, it goes on and on. But somehow in human in human involvement, we sometimes elevate some servants, as bigger than other servants, oh, this, this service more important, and that servant that servants more important than this servant, we're all really in service, no matter what we do, you do out there farming, will you providing a service, you're feeding yourself, your family and others, if you have leftover. And so I think a life of service is actually one that all humans are involved in. And it helps be reminded of that, to humble ourselves, and also to realize our interdependence. And that is a good thing to serve. So I feel grateful that the part of service we have is to help people who are oppressed, and to stand with them, and to speak for them, and to provide any assistance we can. It's just a great feeling to feel useful. And doing this feels useful and good. Not that the people we serve are always good, not that we're always good, because we're not and they're not. We're just humans, but it's the best we can do to add to the beauty of the world, to support each other's yearnings for freedom, and for a fulfilling life. And to allow each one to define that for themselves. And to stand for that, right. You know, there's that old song. I came out of the 60s or 70s, I can't remember. But it's called no man is an island. And it says, No man is an island and no man stands alone. Each man's joy is joy to me. Each man's grief is my own. We need one another. So I will defend each man as my brother, each man as my friend. I think that's a great song. And that's how I want to live. And I'm not doing it alone. People like you, you know, people who support us in prayer or money or volunteering or speaking for support in Congress. We're all in this together.

Host  1:38:46

Right? And that last question was looking more at you and and how you've oriented your life. speaking personally, since the coup broke, my home life has really consisted of little more than supporting the people against this terror in any way that I can. But I have to admit, I haven't lived a life of activism and service to the extent that you have and I think probably few others have, despite your, your modesty. And it's fair, that of the wider service that everyone is providing in their own way. But in any sense, this level of engagement that I'm currently taking on and have been for the last half year has been somewhat new for me to adjust to. And as I take this on, I'm becoming increasingly conscious of the many ways that people are choosing to engage and not in the world around them. And so as I was preparing for this interview, one of the questions I really wanted to ask you as someone who has decided already for to devote everything in your life towards your beliefs, and this is probably something you've thought about deep in your soul and having to come to this decision and choose this path. So you've had some more time to reflect on it than than I have. What do you believe it takes for a person to decide to engage or not engage in the world? And, of course, this is not a, a black and white question of what is needed and what is not. But take it as you Well, I'm sure there's some wide range of possibilities or tendencies or potential realities of what is bringing someone or leading someone to a greater engagement and leading someone else to decide not to, and to to be more selfish or self involved or, or whatever, whatever word is there, but simply to not engage at the same level. So what are your thoughts on what it takes someone to decide to turn that thing on and engage?

David Eubank  1:40:44

Well, I think, a couple of things I thought of, as you're saying that for me personally, as someone who believes in God and believes in his son, Jesus, prayer, God, we might do poorly on me to do, how do I do it, I give up all my ways, I'll obey you. And then listen with your heart or your spirit, your mind for what comes. That's my first step. And the other two things I thought of were two sayings that I've heard. One my wife was, I know who she was calling, but she said, you know, our mission is where the world's greatest need, and our greatest love intersect. And then someone named john Piper said, Don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive? because the world needs people to come alive. And so I think to me, you look at a problem and you go, okay, is that it's, for me, I was just praying, God's trying to do something. Is there something I can do? What would I do? Well, if that was me, or my kids, what would I do, and it may be man is too far away, I just can't get there and have these other responsibilities. So I'm just going to pray for him, I'm gonna send money, or I'm gonna give him a phone call, I'm gonna talk my congressman. Or now I'm going to go. I mean, in Burma, the way it happened for us was, I was invited by the Waa tribe, from Northern Burma. In 1993, please come and help us. Okay, I didn't know that much about Burma. I grew up in Thailand, I still didn't know much about Burma. But I had the invitation, I had the ability to go. And I went, my wife and I, when we got married, and went, that was our honeymoon. And then I began to learn about the fighting in Burma, and the suffering in the oppression. And I just remember thinking, killing, rape, murder is wrong, I'm going to stand against it. Number one, because all oppression is wrong. Number two, because I care about these people, and they care about me as love. And then number three, I think as far as I can tell, this is my place in the world. This is something that God has me do. And the last one, I like it, I like action, hiking up and down mountains and making a difference. And it's a great feeling. Whether you're giving someone a blanket who's freezing, or pulling a tooth is rotten and giving them pain, or giving them food or saying I'm going to tell your story, and then telling your story in Congress or to a newspaper, to put a light on it. All those things, make people feel better make people feel valued. And then I feel useful. So to me, we can't go everywhere and do everything. And I mentioned Afghanistan, because that's going on right now. We've been there before. And I just pray God, I don't want to be distracted from what's happening in Burma, because that disaster in Afghanistan. At the same time, we've got 100 teams here, I have a really good staff. I just contacted them. They're like, stay in America. Don't rush back, keep speaking for us. We got it here. like wow. And so I think we all have different capacities. And we have we don't want to be irresponsible. We want to be able to respond constantly what we committed to. But for me, I try to let God determine my capacity. And well, you know, we've been invited to Nigeria to bring the freeburn Rangers there, to the Central African Republic, on Ukraine. And we haven't gone to those places. Because as we prayed and thought he just didn't have enough confirmations for us to say go, we didn't have the capacity. So our capacity right now is focused on Burma, but also still in Iraq and Syria. And right now for gana, Stan. We are praying for people we're trying to connect people to get flights out. But we haven't done any more than that. And I'm adding that because I think that's true for all of us, you you're living your life, you're doing your work, you're your response for all these things and something new comes up and you can do that. The capacity is it crazy will make a difference. Will I be then irresponsible that I'm doing now. My only answer to that is I just pray and I discuss it with my family and my teammates and goes to something which was to do We ask for confirmations like, you know, God, it'd be really good. If this is we're supposed to do this, this woman would invite us and that role would open then, okay? So I think for each person, each person has to determine what it is they're responsible to do. And I like this definition of responsibility, its ability to respond. And so I look and go, okay, maybe my response may just be writing a check or writing my Congressman, or my response may be go there myself, or my response is advocacy and raising awareness. So I think each of us have to decide what that is. But for us, I'm grateful that we can go on the ground, we love it. And we love those people.

Host  1:45:44

Yeah, and I think that's a great answer to be able to look first generally at just the sense of engagement or not, that's the first general question Do do I decide to care? Do I decide to take this on? Do I open up my heart for creating greater space than something of my immediate needs? And that that was what the question was oriented towards? Is just looking at what is this mean to decide to engage or not? And then you took it in these more specific definitions of dependent, which I fully agree with. And as I've tried to charge and understand my own role, and look around me, I've seen as one of the greater truths and realities out there that everyone is deciding and figuring out who they are, what they can offer that comes after one has already made the decision of whether or not they have decided to engage, which was the general parameters of the question of looking at, what does it take for this thing to go on or off? And then to get more specific on my side, the thing I'm also wondering about, is not just this sense of, do I engage or not? That's the first step do I create space in my heart or not? Because, you know, let's face it even to, to listen to this podcast to read an article that is, those small things are taking time out of your day and your mental space to put it and think about someone else in something else that is a decision on some minor level to engage that can carry you into, into further possibilities of what you can do. But beyond that, there's also a greater sacrifice, of safety, of comfort of risk of everything else. Where if you take the metaphor of a house on fire, or some gruesome car accident, that these are situations that many people will turn away from these days, unfortunately, some will be voyeurs and will want to watch or even take pictures of whatever is unfolding for some kind of sensationalism. But very few will actually run towards that. And that is another kind of engagement to actually run towards the damage, the damage and the carnage and the danger. And to do so at sacrifice to one's comfort and safety and, and home and whatever else one holds dear. And so yeah, to check in with you about this, again, because you are also someone who personally and as a family has chosen to run towards the fire. And as you mentioned eloquently, you can't run towards every fire, we know that there are fires that happen that all we can perhaps do is read an article or write a check to, but in other ways where you felt called where you have come to see that you have a role. And you've seen that fire, you have been willing to make enormous sacrifices to run towards those fires where others would would not tend to run away or perhaps sensationalized, but you have run towards them. So what are your thoughts on what goes through the mind? What happens within the mind? For one, and we're seeing that happen? Before I finished the question I should mention, we're seeing that, of course in Burma today, to a remarkable extent how many people there could be lying low, and even even in a bloody dictatorship, how they could be staying off the radar. And yet they are facing those dangers and risks by running towards the fire in their own country in ways that we frankly, haven't seen in ADA, 10 and 2007. Before when these came so what are your thoughts on what it takes to not just engage but to sacrifice so much and actually running towards the danger instead of running away from it?

David Eubank  1:49:28

I think that's love. It's like for your kids, your wife, your husband, you run you don't think about the danger, you think about them. And you you're cognizant of the danger but but you're going to find a way around with through it if possible to help that person you love and care about. So I think the first thing is love if you don't have it, ask for God give me love and put yourself in their shoes. So I think that that's what motivates me when I look Those running into the danger are trying to help. I think also, it's where you're called, and we can't go everywhere. But this is where we were invited. And we know these people. So we're gonna, we're gonna do all we can to take action as we want someone to do for us, in Burma right now, the people are doing it, and they're willing to put everything on the table. I think when I look back at the history of America, I think we discussed this earlier, but the people who wrote the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they said, when they, when they took on England for the freedom, they said, We commit our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor. They put everything on the table. And they want, I think, the dictators have put everything on the table, their lives, their fortune, their sacred honor, it's all on the table. And if you don't put everything on the table, it's very hard to win. So the people of Burma realize that, and they put it on the table, too. So they're just as dedicated. So you have a dedication to what I think is evil and the dedication that good. It's an asymmetrical warfare in that the brutal military is going to keep crushing and doing bad. The Pro democracy groups, the people who want change, don't really have the same power to be symmetrical to go toe to toe and win. But their causes do it and it's just and they put everything on the table, they're willing to lose everything. And I think they will prevail. I believe they will, I hope they will. That's where we're going. I remember when the Japanese captured some British soldiers in World War Two who were helping the current and they then they killed them. They put a sign up on their grave saying here lie, the champions of lost causes. But the cause didn't lose. And I think that love is the greatest thing to live for, is the only thing to die for. So you're on safe ground when you're doing something in love. And I think you know, there's the times I always evaluate my actions. Am I doing this mad because I'm proud because I'm trying to be relevant, or trying to prove something. Or am I doing because of love? And it helps me just do that. I'm afraid to check check check, or no, no, I'm in this for the right reason. And I'm scared but it's worth dying for. I don't want to die. But it's actually worth it's not foolish. And I think nothing done of love is crazy. I don't know if you saw that. That video we just put out about planting rice under fire.

Host  1:52:41

I did I did. That was also that blew me away. But why don't you describe for the listeners for those who haven't?

David Eubank  1:52:49

Yeah, well, we were we were with a current This is June last month. That's two months ago now. And we're up in northern France state mutrah district or upcoming district, and eleuthero Township. mommies increase their tax since the coop, more displacement, daily shooting from their camps. And there was a village called summer PLA is below. It's a beautiful valley. 4000 feet nice and cool. Lots of streams, verdant fields, flat rice fields, irrigated with dikes around it water coming in. And this is planning season. But this village is having a hard time planting because the borough may built up a camp near the village. They're overlooked their rice fields. And it was shooted anyone who tried to plant rice and we were doing a kid's programming when the shooting started again. And this widow came to us and said hey, I don't have a husband. I just got kids I got to feed him I got to plant this for rice field by myself. But I every time I go out to try to kill me, shoot me from this camp, which is about three four yards away up on the hill. And she told us that it was horrible. And we prayed you know what should we do? And I noticed that rain started heavier and the clouds were down and I looked around I said you know we'll help you plant rice and it's not crazy. Look, the clouds are low enough the camp will be obscured they won't be able to see us and it's raining. I think we can try and I prayed about and asked my family and team you know something we can do and we also yes and i said we're gonna help you she goes Hey, are you on? Are you white people faster than us that is brown people are you faster than bullet because you better be here and get shot. And she started laughing I laugh with her. And we all but we said okay we'll try so well to the to the rice field and there was a small stream bed and a grove of bamboo. between our where we came in and the rice field and I had my family my wife and kids and other team members wait in that little creek bed because we don't know what's going to happen and five of us went out. As he walked out in the open the rice field I suddenly realized the rain is Stop the clouds that lifted and the Burma army just opened up within seconds. And if you look at the video with that part's not cut, I say to the cameraman, every team has a videographer shooting film all the time. And we have medics and we have good life counselors and reporters. But we always have a videographer and the purpose of the videographers put a light on what's happening to tell the story for the honor and sake of the victims to know that this is not being kept secret, the world's gonna know what happened for the perpetrators to see this what you're doing and for the world and know this was happening. So this is why we shoot video and as much as we can. So I turned to my video guy and I said look and start shooting at us pray and run. And I just barely finished those words the Burma army open up machine guns and bullets are hitting on both sides to the to the water. Actually, I didn't see that. But my my daughter who's behind and about four of my teammates and and it was a stitch of bullets in the water, just like the movies between you and everybody else's fire hose out there. And it bolts just messes, just stitch the water. But I definitely heard the bullets that I heard on the wing by me and crack into the bamboo behind us. We ran behind a cup of bamboo, my my son film part of this jumped out of the ditch. The lady who come with us was you know, yelling for her one daughter who would come get out, get down, get down. And my wife is yelling for my kids get down you know, every got down. The shooting stops and we're like praying, what do we do now. And I mean, I was an attempt, we didn't actually one of us one of my team that out ahead of me, he actually planted a little bit of rice for this shooting, but we didn't accomplish very much. And then I prayed and I thought I don't want to stop here. I want to try again number one to show that lady she counts. Number two not to be defeated by this evil number three, because you need rice is what you're going to eat. You're not going to you don't plan it, you don't eat it. So I prayed about it. And I asked my family and team. I'm gonna go do it again. They're like, Oh, are you sure I said we need to do something. So we prayed. And then I crawled out of from a different angle along below a dike. Keeping as low as I could slowly crawled out planted a few clumps of rice, that was all I did plant about a moment they see me how won't make it back on the way out in the open. So I came back and I thought, okay, I didn't accomplish much. And I told you that you will only plant a little bit rice. She's just laughing. He said, Yeah, I'm glad you're not dead. And I said, but we love you. We love you. And we'll do everything we can for you. And we'll pray God helps you plant the rice. And we did. And the next day, we had to go to another village that needed help. So we went there, we found out that two days later, that widow, along with other villagers had crawled out at night, with no lights, which means very hard to make straight lines and plan to the entire field. And that was to me was an answer to prayer. So I just tell that story, because that's what just happened. But also that in life, you can't fix everything, but you can do something. And for us, we didn't do anything big and heroic. We didn't only plant a little wise, we did not stop the virmani. But we did something. And that something was an immediate help. But I think it helped motivate everyone around saying, Hey, we can do better than this. We just wait till night. We'll do this together. So I think that's what we can do in life. And in Burma. we're privileged to work with wonderful people like that widow, and privileged to have team members that risked their lives to help do this. And you know, I'd asked one of them to teach me I planted rice years ago, I mean many years ago. So do it, right? Remember how to put it in, but the seedlings in. So we're all doing this together as a team, and people praying for us from outside the country and sending money so we can buy things to get people. It's all one team.

Host  1:58:48

That's really a beautiful story. Thanks for sharing. I saw the video but I had no idea of context surrounding it before, during and then after several days after what was able to happen. So I I just I really appreciate that being shared. And I think that's a great story to end on. Before we close, I just want to ask if there's anything else you want to use this platform to get out anything that my questions haven't touched upon that you want to make sure it gets heard by listeners?

David Eubank  1:59:20

Well, first, thank you. And I think what you're doing is crucial that people remember the people of Burma who are our family in this world, and crucial all our well being. I think I just wanted to reiterate the three things they need immediate humanitarian help in the cities in the mountains, they need to be recognized as legitimate as real people. They nationally Union Government, the ethnic armed groups do recognize and the third is we need to intervene and intervention just might need more money or more supplies in might mean physical intervention, but it might mean words like this is we're going to sanction you because killing your own people in the streets is wrong. So I think I want to encourage the listeners to pray and to be involved in any way they think they can and enter contact their government representatives. You know, Afghanistan is rightly leaving the news now, but it's not the only story. And the people of Burma need help. And mostly they can help themselves, but they do need people people as much as they can to help us survive this and also to help them navigate I think one thing the US can do for example, we can't solve the problems who broke up we can help make a space where people can solve the problems so that's my appeal and I'm really grateful for your love and care and that I could share some of these stories and we'll keep going our teams are all active right now they said you know we got this right now the rains have come bramante slowed down a little bit go to America and tell the story so thank you for helping me tell story.

2:01:15

I was explosion just went off with from Burma army camp, as the kids are singing songs

2:01:46

for a copy. So as a shout out shooting this distance, mortars and machine guns for mortar rounds,

2:02:07

and then machine gun burst and rifles back and forth. Can you hear that shooting? I think if it picks up on the recording,

2:02:43

it's always quieter on a recorder.

Host  2:03:04

After today's discussion, it should be clear to everyone just how dire the situation is in Myanmar. We are doing our best to shine a light on the ongoing crisis. And we thank you for taking the time to listen. If you found today's talk a value, please consider passing it along to friends in your network. And because our nonprofit is now in a position to transfer funds directly to the protest movement, please also consider letting others know that there was now a way to give that supports the most vulnerable and to those who are specially impacted by this organized state terror. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are resisting the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form, currency or transfer method. every cent because immediately and directly to funding those local communities who need it most. Donations go to support such causes as a civil disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, and the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies. Or if you prefer, you can earmark your donation to go directly to the guests you just heard on today's show. In order to facilitate this donation work, we have registered a new nonprofit called better Burma for this express purpose. Any donation you give on our Insight Myanmar website is now directed to this fund. Alternatively, you can visit our new better Burma website, which is better Burma one word.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause, and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me slash better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo, GoFundMe and cash app. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to those respective accounts, or email us at info at better burma.org In all cases, that's better Burma. One word, spelled b e t t e r, bu r Ma. If you would like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration.