Transcript: Episode #74: Courage Under Fire
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Dr. Troy, which appeared on October 15, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:00
I'm really excited to bring you the upcoming interview with a very special guest. You'll hear him discussing all the great and courageous work that he's currently engaged in. And if you feel inspired to help him continue these efforts, please consider making a donation earmarked for his projects, or feel free to give a general donation that will support the wider movement in Myanmar. Our ongoing support is so helpful and appreciated by the Burmese people during these dark days. Simply go to Insight myanmar.org slash donation to contribute today, or stay tuned to the end of the episode to hear more options. Now, let's hear from that guest himself.
01:00
If we are complacent and don't do really aggressive containment and mitigation, that number could go way up in many, many
01:07
millions to be isolating patients emphasizing social distancing. The coronavirus outbreak is now that COVID-19 can be characterized as a pandemic easily
01:21
one of the worst affected countries. The business supply chains are being disrupted around the globe. This combination of people
May Oo 01:37
he is a two way activist. She was interviewed on March 29. If I stay home, I start feeling depressed. This is my daily work. This has become my duty. When I woke up on the morning of February 1. I wondered why the internet wasn't working. I didn't understand what was going on. Then a neighbor knocked on my door and told me that NEMA was under a military dictatorship now. I couldn't believe it. Was it a bad joke? Was it fake news. I tried to contact my family and friends. But there was no phone signal. It was only after a few hours and once I was able to talk to my mother that I understood it was no joke. I live in a hostel with other youth in Lyon township in Yago. I have been working for a couple of months as a monitoring and evaluation intern with an organization focusing on gender equality. I felt so confident and excited about the future. But the use of the crew completely changed my perspective on the opportunities that lie ahead. The military take over was now a terrible reality we had been thrown into. I felt numb. I couldn't speak. What about my dreams? What about my future? Once the internet was reconnected, I was finally able to start exchanging messages with friends, making plans and organizing resistance which energized me. First, we heard the things that might get back to normal after three days, so we stayed home, but nothing happened. I knew this wasn't a solution. If they had stolen our future, we needed to fight back and stand up for our rights. Shortly after I joined the first protest with a group of eight friends. It took place near the lid and Center, a big shopping mall in Latin Township. The crowd was incredible. I continue protesting with the same group of friends, some Arcachon, others the year, and I am aware. During the first weeks, we met many people out in the streets and meet many new friends. the unity of the crowd was so impressive. People respected each other and many were giving out donations. We organized ourselves online day after day. Throughout the march however, we have been going into the streets less and less. The situation has become very dangerous and younger. It is basically a battleground. But only one side has cons. But in line township generation set is still out in the streets taking huge risks. Boys are worried about girls being at the front line. They want to protect us. So have asked us to stay further back. Most of our group members have gone back to their states and regions. There are only two of us left. My mother is calling me every day and asking me to come back home and stay with them. She is very word. But if I go back, I won't be able to join the movement. My hometown is small and everybody knows everybody. The security forces would know what I'm doing. And I would end up in jail quickly. I would rather stay here and contribute to the movement as much as I can. All beliefs are stronger than our fears. Even though many people have lost their lives, I believe we will win, we will get our democracy, our hope for a better future is so strong. My generation generation set is showing so much determination. Every morning, we assess the situation, if we can we go out, because we must fight. If I stay home, I start feeling depressed, this is my daily work, this has become my duty
05:51
to realize, see an opportunity situations, please make your compassion and kindness to the people. For you to COVID-19 become
06:09
more support to be served is time to grow in down, kick out
06:18
your negative mind become closer to the sun emitter, to all over the wall all over the universe.
06:30
And less, work hard. More and more will be more Sunday loving kindness. People can think New Horizons.
06:43
To see some positive aspects of this Corona crisis. We all waiting and we see that in a sense, that brings people also closer together, people are getting closer together and watching out for each other. We have more time for families for the community. And time to meditate, please make your compassion and loving kindness.
07:06
It was kind of actually very, very like kind of stabilize their heart. Just reminder of this uncertainty of life where we don't know see what we can do and what we cannot do, what we can accomplish and what we cannot
07:28
remember peace in the face of suffering, suffering.
Dr. Troy 08:01
Good day. I had been volunteering at one of the protests area in Yangon. And me and some of my colleague seeing the patients at other clinic in secret which is located inside the monastery. We even prepared a mini operation theater just in case we cannot refer the patient directly to the hospitals due to the roadblock set by the armed forces. Because at the time there are a lot of injured protesters who are not given any chance to get proper and adequate treatment. So we made the no anagram secret clinics for to take care of those in your protestors. But on one incident, I was late to go to the clinic but all my friends and the colleague with a to see the patients and then I suddenly I got a phone call from the from the neighbors that all the enforcers are everywhere on the streets and the clinic was was raided. All the medical equipment were confiscated. And my my colleague and on other volunteers were abducted and even some of them said that even some patients will also abducted together with what the doctors see seeing them and for the fair And then the next day on the newspaper that these doctors and volunteers were abducted, they were arrested for the reason of having murderous weapons in the clinic. But in reality, those were those couples, you know, surgical knives to, to do the emergency operations in case we cannot transfer the patient into a protester to the, to the hospital in time, so that we can make emergency operations in the in our disk in or discrete clinic. So but the handle the claim that all these doctors posters later work on and that's the only reason why the doctor but the reality is just as I mentioned before, so my friend and these volunteers was still in the prison for over four months for the very reason of having surgical scalpels with our fall for which for the Hunter was the murderous weapon. And I'm very worried about the health condition of my colleagues because they there's an outbreak of disease in cold disease in the prison. And, and recently, one doctor, because I've been hearing this many tragic stories of the medics who are detained in the prison for for providing medical treatment to the wounded protesters, and get an contract in COVID-19 in prison, due to the lack of care in custody, and deliberate negligence of prison authorities. Denial of medical treatment caused the death of a general surgeon by COVID-19 in mental prison. So I'm very worried about the the health condition of my colleague and other medics who are currently in, in, in custody. Because of the days many incidents of the torture during interrogation and the denial of treatment and, and lack of social distancing, because because of the, you know, overcrowding in the prison room, which, around 100 to 200 people in a very confined places, which is a very dangerous for the disease prevention. So, I'm very worried about the condition of my colleague, and I, myself was very lucky to escape that incident, because I was, you know, five to four or five to 10 minutes late to go to the clinic, I was just on the very close to getting abducted with them. So I'll be in the prison for four months, because of giving care to the wounded protesters. For the doctors, we have every right to give our humanitarian aid acuities to whoever in need of medical attention by the hunter, want to decide who gets treatment and who doesn't. They want the doctors to walk enter the murderous regime, and those who reject the record as the enemies of the state. So nearly 600 medical professionals, including doctors, and nurses are in Red List. issue by the hunter and the Penal Code 505. A for participating in the civil disobedience movement.
Host 14:00
Thank you. So I'm speaking to Dr. Troy here. And he's been administering his duties as a doctor during the past six months of the coup and has just described a harrowing story in March when he and his colleagues were administering to protesters who had been injured by the military and they were working out of a monastery, they had to do so in somewhat in secret because as the military is going after the medical staff with a real level of anger and vengeance for their role in CDM, and also for their help in bringing aid to the workers. And in this story, you mentioned how because you had been just five or 10 minutes late You escaped abduction, torture, being in a prison cell that was just a narrow miss your colleague unfortunately, did not So that's really quite tragic for you to have to process I imagine that because of circumstance, your close colleague was taken and you just managed to escape and he is still in prison and you don't know, his circumstances. I'm just wondering mentally and personally, how have you made sense of or process that just as luck of the draw that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time? And you happen not to be How have you been able to understand that or come to grips with that?
Dr. Troy 15:36
Yep, totally. That incident came as a shock to me, and I wasn't even, I didn't even know what to do next, because shouldn't escape or shouldn't contact the my professors to inform of this incident, but I'm not sure whether they can make a difference in that. So I just decided to go in hiring for a few days. And I even need to head to, or change my location for the security concerns, because because of you know, I've been seeing patients at the clinic for many times. But I was just lucky. I was very lucky to escape that incident. But he didn't, and and what you just mentioned about wrong place at the wrong time, I don't think adult crew being at a clinic is in a wrong place. It is just the wrong time and the wrong military, wrong regime. You know, that's what we are fighting, even risking our own lives. Many doctors are still refusing to return to do work. And the country's healthcare system, even I met the the COVID cases, they refuse to return to the walks because they or even one, the doctors are seeing the patients in their own ways at the Toronto clinics or the private hospitals with free of charge or sometimes with just a cost of the medicine. They are see they are still being abducted by various, you know, absurd charges. The honcho claimed that the doctors in Myanmar are committing genocide by performing by participating in the CDA. But in reality, they are the one stopping the doctors from giving care to our own citizen and own fellow man. Doctors are still seeing the patients. But sec, the home tour is the one making it impossible.
Host 18:06
Right? So on that day in March, when you were working underground at a monastery delivering aid to the protesters who were injured, were you aware of the risks at that time that something like this could be possible?
Dr. Troy 18:21
Yeah, I heard many stories about the doctors getting abducted recently in, in various parts of the country. But it we feel like it is our response to responsibility and duty to taking care to take care of these the injured protesters, we can just let them die and do nothing. We have to raise our own lives. But we take every security protocols, and we try to see them in discreet, but due to the informants, it is extremely difficult to do so. And yeah, to answer your question, we know of the risks, but and we take every precautionary measures as much as possible. But we need to do this despite the risks to save the lives of our own fellow men to do our duty humanitarian duties, yeah.
Host 19:27
Right, right. And I'm wondering, did anything in your background ever prepare you for the things that you're facing now I'm not sure how open or safe it is to talk about your background. So whatever you're able to share and whenever you have to leave out is fine. But did anything in your background or training prepare you for the kind of things that you're having to do during these six months?
Dr. Troy 19:53
Yes, thank you for the question but for the for for the secretary reasons I have to leave some specific information. So about that, I think are working as volunteer talk crews for many months, even before the coup. And I tried to go to the remote areas to see the patients with medical volunteer teams. And, you know, I tried to collect donation from from the community and then and then deliver the humanitarian aid to those in need, with the help of my colleagues. And one of the cool happened that that the number of deaths are rising rapidly due to the attacks by the Find the hunter. So that's why I try to focus on taking care of the wounded protester, together with a colleague who share the similar interest, despite the risks we have to take.
Host 21:13
So this was really a decision that you had to make early on of how much risk you want to take in order to help the people which was quite different from your ordinary background and ordinary practice where you were sworn an oath to come and help people in any capacity and your own safety or well being was not really part of the calculus of having to help others, suddenly, you're now faced with the decision of knowing that any to any extent that you help others to recover from an injury or anything else, you're directly putting yourself at risk. And so you have to determine how far you're willing to be prepared to do that.
Dr. Troy 21:56
Yeah, that's right. And again, another another reason is, we have to fill the void of, you know, we have to fill in the healthcare system that is left by the civil disobedience movement, we have responsibility to cover for the public health system, why our colleagues have to participate in the civil disobedience movement, that we have to support them and fill in the spots that is loved by, by, by this movement. And it's, we feel that it's our responsibility of for the sake of our country. And we totally understand their decision, because they believe that their country is in the emergency state, and it is needed to be safe us.
Host 22:49
So as you made that decision, that's really quite a profound decision to make that you are now willing to place yourself in harm's way in order to continue helping others. Can you tell us a bit about what went into actually deciding to do that? Was that a difficult decision to make? Or was it automatic? Or what factors went into play? As you were deciding to what extent you were willing to be involved and put yourself on the line?
Dr. Troy 23:17
Yeah. Yeah, the war. The first reason is the one I've mentioned before, that that is to support the mission of all the doctrines in Myanmar, to protest against the murderous regime to stand for the justice. And, and that, we feel that it is our responsibility to join the mission of the whole doctrine. That's one of the reasons and but of course, there are many breaks we have to take. And, and, and there are many incidents that the family members of the activists or all the CDM doctors were abducted instead of them, because they couldn't find them at their homes. You know, so it also put great brakes to our own family. So it isn't a big, small decision we are we we have to take a lot of risks to make that decision. And, but we don't have any other choices. Any other choice.
Host 24:33
So, so I'm sure in March after what happened with you barely escaping and your friend being abducted, and to this day, as you mentioned, he's in prison. You don't know his welfare. I'm sure that this was a real moment of realizing experientially the dangers involved, even if you knew before that the risks you were taking. This was actually An incident where you were face to face with that danger and that evil right in front of you. And I can't imagine how traumatic and difficult that must have been to live through that and how terrifying and how scary. So, after this incident happened, did you reevaluate it all the extent to which you wanted to be involved, and how did that affect your commitment and your level of involvement, now, having this near miss for yourself and having your friend actually taken away?
Dr. Troy 25:31
Yes, those active attacks on the medical professionals are affecting all the doctors, some of them have to, you know, give up on the medical doctor license, because of the because of the participated in the CDM or, or in the gym, or in a white coat strike, find the doctors, they have to stay in, or they have to stay in hiding, they have to, or, you know, see the patients in public and, and continue the current box, they have to this changes their whole life, you know, these attacks change their whole life, some family members even have to change location of due to these attacks. For me, I have to walk as anonymous T, even why I'm doing for a good d by volunteering or helping of those in need, we have to do it in discreet, because of our huge concern for the phone or for our own safety. We are not even safe to take care of someone who who needs our help. So some, sometimes there are some there are cases we couldn't get proper medical treatment due to the roadblocks set by the enforcers and and due to the attacks on the medics. So these incidents make us feel like you know, the crushing guilt of a helpless Doctor Who could do nothing. But to let it let the patient slip away to death right in front of his own eyes.
Host 27:47
I'm so sorry. The inhumanity of that is really hard to imagine at any level. I guess I'm wondering how you do make sense of it. I don't know if one can but I'm wondering the feelings inside you when this is happening that you're sworn duty to to help people and provide aid that there is this active force that is doing everything I can to prevent and even try to cause harm to you for simply, as you say, doing a good deed and trying to help someone else out. What is how does that feel to you to have to be faced with that day after day now
Dr. Troy 28:33
because we feel like we have to speak up for those who don't have a voice anymore. We have to fulfill the duties for those who are currently detained or or even outright murder. And that we feel that it's our responsibility and our duty to fill the gift that is left by the end all colleagues who are still continuing to civil disobedience move in and are these dangerous and difficult conditions. So so the doctors who are current, so forth safe, feel like it is our duty and responsibility. Even amid those dangerous and security concerns. We feel that gets or does feel like it's our you know, it is infused we feel like it's our true mission. Now, if even if someone is abducted, we have to double our efforts to fulfill that mission. numeral one dangerous or many difficulties we face. We have our common goal and we are very united. And we are not going to give up now or never until we we achieve or we achieve the true democracy of our country.
Host 29:59
So In the statement that you just said, I noticed that you responded a number of times by saying we, and that seems to infer that you're speaking not just from yourself, but from like a larger peer group of doctors who are in this together and having mutual support and solidarity and everything else. So what more can you say about that? What? How have you gained motivation and help from your peer group? And what is the role of other doctors in support and encourage encouraging other people through these hard times?
Dr. Troy 30:37
Yeah, by, you know, the people will so united in their quest to restore democracy, in the great unity across all the social layers previously unseen in the country, people are responding to the coup as one, the whole country was moving as one and carrying out strikes frequently, despite being in a huge danger. And that was a huge blow to the hunter, who claim themselves as the savior of the country, from the political party carrying out voter fraud. And they claim that 14 million people who support them and, and struggling economy after the COVID-19 will be prosperous under the rule. But as I don't think we need to stay, say plot that nobody in Myanmar believes their lives anymore.
Host 31:46
So after this march incident, where you barely escaped, did that have any effect on changing the way that you went about your work?
Dr. Troy 31:57
To be honest, you know, it's very difficult for the doctors to give emergency life saving measures to those who are injured by the injury in a protest. And in some incidents, the attacks are directly targeted towards the doctors first, even before the protesters. So it's, we feel like we have been targeted systematically by the hunter. Oh, one for the for for being participated in CDM. And the other for giving care to the protester who believe who they claim as the enemy of the stage. So it's very difficult for the doctors to give medical care to the to the protesters. So we believe that the other solution is to give medical education of the basic first aid measures to everyone so that everyone can save lives or not. They don't have to rely only on the doctors who are who are being systematically targeted and repressed. relentlessly repress. So they can give medical care of themselves and they can give life saving measures. So that is why many of the doctors trying to focus on the first aid training of the general public so that we can save many lives.
Host 33:36
So you've begun to start organizing and administering first aid training courses for protesters to come and learn themselves. Is that correct?
Dr. Troy 33:45
That's right.
Host 33:47
How's that been going?
Dr. Troy 33:48
Yep. For now, me and our few friends have been conducting basic forensic training over 1500. participants from various parts of the country. How long are these courses? Over three months?
Host 34:07
Oh, wow. three month courses? Are they intensive?
Dr. Troy 34:09
No, no, I mean, all the treatments we have trained 1500 the short course for two days.
Host 34:19
Okay, so it's a two day course. And you've been given it for three months and you've trained 1500 volunteers. That's right. And how has that been going? What kind of results have you seen
Dr. Troy 34:32
and many people we get, we are getting feedback that many people feel more confident in and taking care of each other. Even if they're not. At the protest area, they can give emergency measures one tear at home at the coffee areas because they couldn't they're not safe to go to the hospital, even if even someone is having medical emergency, it is even safe to go outside. Because one can be shot anytime we're on the way to the hospital, nowhere is safe for them. So many people feel that getting knowing of basic first aid fee, make them feel more safe. Yeah.
Host 35:23
And I think that's also a really great idea because as you mentioned before, health care workers, doctors, nurses, medical volunteers, these are being targeted, first, in some cases by the military, because they were at the forefront of the CDM movement. And so there's a special kind of anger and vengeance seen towards people in this profession. That seems to me a very brilliant and innovative way to respond that you are now taking those skills and you're dispersing them, and sharing them and basic qualities to as many people as possible so that they don't rest in those few professionals that can be easily targeted. Yeah, and I'm also wondering, so I spoke to a young doctor at the beginning of the protests, and one of the things that he mentioned was that before the street marches really started, he and a number of doctors attended online sessions talking about the kinds of injuries that they expected they might face. And they, they learned this training through these online seminars. But when he actually went to the frontlines, he then saw things that nothing could prepare them for no matter what he had been discussing in the sessions, you know, people missing limbs and blood flowing freely, of course, head shots, where there's nothing you can do to someone who's just been shot in the head and any number of other just very gruesome and bloody and horrifying injuries that were were in front of them and that he had to face and that this training, however, well intended, it was, could barely advise him on what it was like to actually be in those wartime conditions. And I think that's probably true of medics anywhere. I think even more medics that do training before they actually go off to the war, nothing can really prepare them for the carnage that they're going to see in the chaos that they're going to find on the ground. That is very different from an operating room, even for doctors who have seen some terrible things in an operating room. wartime conditions are in fact, quite different. And it's hard to have adequate training for that. So what has been your experience and the experience of those you've worked with and seen, what you've learned and what you've studied, and then what it's actually been like to be confronted with the actual real conditions that you're facing.
Dr. Troy 37:50
We I personally, I didn't have to face many horrible injuries by myself, I think some minor injuries are some blunt trauma, due to the attacks by the patrons by by the armed forces, but some of my colleagues have, have seen many injuries who were very severe, like, like, like just the one you mentioned that around amputation of the limbs, and some have to some of my colleagues have to sue to make suturing of the wound is you know, with a mere with the help of the touch life, because the clinic was has to close and the lights have to turn off due to the security because of the enforcers on the street. She had to she had to hide the protester in our own clinic and then turn off all the light and she suture the wound with just the help of the porch light. You know, it's it's really difficult for her to perform in that situation. In a in a great danger.
Host 39:12
Right, what can you say about some of the other conditions that that you or your colleagues have had to face that there's no real preparation for?
Dr. Troy 39:21
Yeah, on one incident that happened on 27 much. There are many tragedies that happen on the day because of the you know, many, many people protest on the day and the terror brutal crackdown by the armed forces, but and we even prepared a medical team with medical officers, sergeants, emergency crews, all the periods in general practitioner, but we didn't have a chance to take care All those who needed our help, because of the roadblocks by the armed forces, we know someone was shot on the abdomen. And that could be potentially saved if we were given a chance to take care of them. And, and he or he and he get to transport to the hospital in time. But we didn't even get chance to go to the patients because of the blow roadblocks by the armed forces and police, the armed forces are shooting everyone they see on the road, because so that we couldn't go to them and all the patient can be carried to our clinic because of these systematic attacks on the honker. So we even prepare to be transfused blood with todos. We even prepared many operation teachers, but they are using, you know, they are attacking systematically so that the tools in your protester couldn't be fixed. That's what I experienced by myself.
Host 41:13
Did any of this come as any surprise to you, you obviously know, the military from being born and raised there. But we haven't seen this kind of cruelty in a number of years. So as you're directly experiencing this level of inhumanity and even evil, Did this come as any surprise to you? Or was it really what you were expecting from the start?
Dr. Troy 41:39
Yeah, to be honest, we didn't expect this, because we are because they us like us, I think living and, and the democracy by which is, which is an even a true democracy. But our country is moving towards the democracy and everyone has the right to speak, and we don't have and we can get a sense of freedom, so that we didn't know about the brutality and by the horn for so that we didn't believe that they would be such inhuman. So one, we only we can only believe or eyes, Believe, believe it, when we see it. See this by our own eyes. And to be honest, when I see them, killing our own people, I see them as the monsters in uniform. I don't see them. We don't, we don't feel like they are even humans. They are just like monsters who are wearing military uniform, because any human being won't be that brutal. You know, no one would be happy to short someone on half their day, there is even some videos on the internet that one the unfortunate can short hours, civilians, our pro democracy protests on health, they celebrated with the dense and with, with some of the Armed Forces, like the Adi shot of some animal on the head, they are celebrating like, like a victory, though. So we did that came as a shock to everyone in our country. And that motivates us. If we don't, if we don't continue our walk, if we don't, if we give up here, our future generation has to live under this murderous regime. And this isn't just about us. This is about the future generation of on our country and, and and the future of our country, you know, that we're motivated.
Host 44:10
Right. So it seems that during the protests in March and April, were quite bloody crackdowns of daily death counts, and there were some terrible things happening on the streets. And I think that the military was probably hoping that as in previous times, this level of open brutality and cruelty would scare the people back into their homes and the the, the enthusiasm for the protest would kind of come to an end. But instead, as you have said, it actually inspired people's commitment to resist even stronger given what was happening. And my question for you is that since around April or so, the cruelty and the killings that that happened on the street have have not Then happening to the same extent, I think that was probably a calculated decision by the military to not want to keep getting international attention for all these terrible things that were being shown on live video stream of what was actually happening. But instead the that doesn't mean the cruelty has in any way gone away or diminished. It's just not quite happening in front of our eyes, it's happening behind closed doors and ways that we're only getting little whispers of what's actually taking place. So, as a doctor, I wonder if you have any more information about this, I, I imagine that these days, you're not quite well, these days, you're dealing with COVID, which we'll get into in a moment. But before the third way of the COVID pandemic, I imagine you weren't administering aid to the same level that you were back in March, when there there was much more violence on the streets. But that doesn't mean that the violence isn't happening. It just means it's a way from our eyes and our knowledge. And as a doctor, I wonder if you have any information or awareness about that transition taking place, and the level of, of beatings and torture and killing that is still taking place, but just away from our eyes?
Dr. Troy 46:12
Yes, even amid the gagne COVID crisis, the attacks on the medical professionals and attacks on a product pro democracy protesters continue. And many of these incidents are not widely known or reported, because of the national wide communication cut off and information blackout. And around 1000 people has already dead due to the direct actions of the military, military armed forces. And and that is to only do to the, that's not even counting those who are indirectly affected by the coup like those and you know, those who have to leave from their home and flee from the hole and hide in the refugees and those who don't get require medical treatment due to deal security concerns and who couldn't get Medicare K and died due to the concerns over the security or in transportation during a curfew hour. So and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Those 1000 deaths are just the tip of the iceberg. And in reality, then the number of actual cases who are affected by the coup are much higher.
Host 47:52
Right? I think that so when many are now in prisons, and we don't necessarily know their whereabouts or their welfare, have doctors then allowed any access to any of the prisoners to check on their medical conditions.
Dr. Troy 48:07
Not at all. We are we had some we had that. There used to be clinics in prison blood, according to our update, update information that they're Of course they are still clinics, but they are not seeing patients, they are not taking care of they they are not getting any medical treatment of those sick into prisoners, many denied medical treatment. And and and just recently, our general surgeon died of COVID-19 due to the denial of treatment by the motoring routine. That's just an example.
Host 49:01
And then with all of this, then we move into this third wave of COVID. If this all wasn't bad enough, we now are seen COVID hit me and Mar to greater extent than almost anywhere in the world in the past year and a half. So before we get into the third wave, can you give us some background on the first two waves of the history of how the pandemic has entered me and my before and what has how the healthcare system and the government has responded prior to the coup just so we have some background and context to understand what's happening right now with the third wave?
Dr. Troy 49:41
Yes, on 10th of October 2020. During the second wave of COVID-19 in Miramar, we had the highest number of new cases of COVID-19 per day of all time with 2158 new cases. This number later fall into relatively more manageable 218 new cases by the end of January 2021. One day before the coup, the number of active cases on the 20 sorry 31st of January 20/21. What was 11,942 cases yomo was also one of the earliest country in in the Southeast Asia to receive COVID-19 percent designations and to start the vaccination program. On second 22nd 22nd of January, the country received 1.5 million COVID she fastings dose for India serum Institute, Jamar also purchased 30 million doses of COVID sheep fuzzing tools, which would be delivered in patches. The country was also planning to start providing COVID vaccines to about 20% of his 54 million population in April 2021. And the Global Compact, affordable med medicine program. However, after the clue the number of new cases drop just to 21. case on nine or favor, it's still a very low number until 26th of May, where only 22 cases were reported. Starting from 27, the number of daily new cases such exponentially at 96 new cases on that day reaching our new peak on first of July, with 2017 new cases, the highest since the beginning of the coup and level and seen since all time high in the season with back in October 2020. So and the daily records are breaking previous day records again and again. And it has reached to the full house edge over a short time.
Host 52:16
So that brings us to the third wave. Can you share a bit about the last couple weeks or so since it's really broke? What we've been seeing with this new outbreak in the pandemic of the third wave how, how it's been breaking and what the response has been?
Dr. Troy 52:34
Yeah, it's quite worrisome. There's currently a shortage of oxygen everywhere. The number of people across the country are having breathing problems. And a 40 liter oxygen canister is going for $150 US dollar. Because of the panic buying of these canisters, factory cannot keep up with the demand of oxygen anymore. Or Everyone knows that that is now uncontrollably spread among the population. People are panicking and taking a cocktail of drugs in hopes of getting elevating the symptoms if they cannot prevent it. Many dies in DOS every day. New clusters are appearing everywhere. One can be killed by a bullet outside wine protesting or can be killed by COVID-19 in one's own home. Nowhere is safe for people of New
Host 53:40
right and you mentioned that people are buying these canisters which where the price is really hiked up. Of course, once you get a canister you need to fill it with oxygen. And so what has been the possibility of getting oxygen refills in Myanmar How has that gone
Dr. Troy 54:03
You know, the they you know they have been and verify reports that the Hong crew have been confiscating oxygen canisters and shutting down the oxygen providing facilities to hospitals controlled by them, potentially cutting off oxygen supply into the public that has result in the rise of the prices of the oxygen canisters and we are hearing many tragic stories of people who are dying because of the couldn't get oxygen in time. And and I have many colleagues who as we're seeing COVID-19 patients by our telecommunication that many people are dying because of the lack of oxygen and and and that's the main reason Have them dying and and you know, the demand of oxygen far outstrips the supply. And many cities are having a shortage of oxygen canisters and production facilities. People are crawling up in front of oxygen facilities lining up to a chance to fill the canisters in hope of helping the sick family members back at home, all while potentially getting 10s of infected.
Host 55:32
Yeah, that is just a nightmare situation. And you were describing before after the coup about what the doctors were trying to do to support the people during those first couple months have a lot of violence in the streets. Now we have the third wave of the pandemic, which is just unchecked and going like wildfire. So how have the doctors been responding to this third wave outbreak?
Dr. Troy 56:02
Obviously, there's a shortage of medical professionals in Myanmar, due to various reasons. By the doctors and the other medical healthcare workers are doing our best to compare the co COVID pandemic. We are known both physically and mentally exhausted, because of the great number of cases that the rise of the COVID cases in the short term and, and our grave concern of our own security. So it's really difficult for the doctors in Myanmar to to combat that series 100 is actively preventing, you know, actively attacking the healthcare system.
Host 57:00
Yeah, I know, it's hard to figure out how to make sense of it. And I wonder, what are doctors even able to do, the cards are so stacked against them, the military has been looking for them and abducting them since the very beginning and any form they give aid. So they have to go underground and give aid in secret ways. And then they're closing off oxygen factories, they're preventing the importation of different kinds of medical goods that well be able to actually help the people and the doctors themselves are having to make sure they stay healthy and they don't contract COVID. So I don't know how doctors would even begin to respond under these circumstances. I think these are true heroes for even trying to do something in these kind of impossible odds. So what, with these limited options available, what have doctors and volunteers even been able to do to try to meet this overwhelming need and terror of the third wave that's coming out now.
Dr. Troy 58:04
Okay, thank you. So we have many doctors in the country who despite being chased down by the military and charged with high prison, for participating in the CDN, or doing whatever they can, in their capacity to perform the humanitarian duties of giving care to the patients, even when Heidi and many volunteer doctors and enercon clinics are operating discreetly due to the trap due to the threats to their own security. People do not know where to get themselves tested. Due to this discrete nature. Because of the constant surveillance, the fear of informants and the notorious attacks on these healthcare network, giving care to the patients, there's a complete failure of the referral system. And it's really difficult for for all the doctors to to to refer the patient because refer the patient to the designated center. You know, with all the qualified personnel to combat the spread of the disease are either detained or outright murder, there is no concerted afford no cooperating among among the key stakeholders in the country to combat the spread of the disease, the effects of such reckless behavior and hence hands off approach cumulated an exponential increase in the number of cases since late June.
Host 59:42
So what is your evaluation of where this could be leading what what is the what are the scenarios and the potentials of what you're playing in your mind of how bad this can actually get given that it's not just going unchecked, the spread of the pandemic is actually being Courage by the military itself, we've heard stories about infected people being brought to cluster areas to intentionally infect and spread to a wider population. So given what is not just neglect, but also intentional infections, and the denial of medical services, where do you see this going? How bad is it gonna get?
Dr. Troy 1:00:25
Yes, the haunter has been allowed to run the country for nearly six months, and not a single moment have they shown any interest in the well being of the people. And the failure to rapidly contain the COVID situation in Myanmar will soon pose a threat to the global COVID-19 containment strategy. We are seeing a rise in COVID cases in the neighboring countries. In China, for example, new Nan region bordering Myanmar, there is an active outbreak in the world of various essential border trade mess to continue. And this is a big threat to spread the disease to the neighboring countries. Even now, among ASEAN nations, there are huge outbreaks in Thailand and Indonesia. Myanmar becoming a super spread a nation in the vicinity will not be the best interest of the neighboring countries or the food or for or for the entire war. And you know, the 100 is still attacking actively attacking all the medical professionals and, and targeting all the pro pro democracy protesters amid these dreadful COVID crisis. Instead of focusing on preventing and treatment of COVID-19 infections, the hunter is going to build 10 new crematoriums in simultaneously at cemeteries and younger. So, we want to tell the international community that the hunter has weaponized COVID for their own political games. The resulting damage is almost literally in measurable. The Daily Tetro issue by the charter, health ministry is far lower than the true number. So I would like to want the international community that numeral which borders countries that are home about a third of the world population rates, becoming a super spreader state. That is what Mr. Tom Andrews concern, the UN expert on the country. And I completely agree with him.
Host 1:02:51
There was another forecast that became quite famous or even infamous, we can say by Mary Callahan, she wrote an article talking to a healthcare worker that suggested that the death call the death toll could go to 10 to 15 million. And she clarified this was not entirely from COVID. This was from related diseases and problems overall with the spread of the pandemic and, and kind of secondary. Secondary versus
Dr. Troy 1:03:24
indirectly not Yeah,
Host 1:03:25
indirectly. Right. Right. So that's other people have pushed back and have said that population of 55 million people that 10 to 15 million deaths is a bit overblown. But what are your thoughts on this number? Do you think there's some accuracy to it? Or do you think that it's a bit exaggerated?
Dr. Troy 1:03:45
Yeah, I'm not sure about that. But if we are trying our best to fight against the this murderous regime, we are trying our own ways we are trying to protest peacefully, to show the wall that we reject the military coup, and we want our true leaders back we went to the country to return to the democracy. But our towers in this have been going on for over six months. Over 1000 people have been have, have died due to the correct actions of the coup. And as you had mentioned before, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many cases who are many people who are dying due to the indirect factors. There are many deaths and I want to emphasize that is dead. inaction from the international community and the United Nations. The number could be true for Myanmar. And we have been losing our people every day. And these people are not just nobodies. They are all country's future generations, and parents of this generation, and we are losing them every day. And we are seeing those tragic stories and he and hearing, hearing those tragic stories and seeing those incidents, and this has happened affecting our mental health also, you know, it's really difficult to continue our How can I say, continue living, we don't have social life. We don't have a true happiness. We, because inside we are very, we are we all of us are heartbroken, because we have seen those tragic incidents and stories. And and we, and that's enough for us, you know?
Host 1:06:18
Yeah, I can't even imagine that. And you reference how the one thing the military has done is to order the building of more crematoriums. And that brings us into a fairly morbid part of the talk, which is simply what how does one even start to handle all of the corpses that are now coming at these unprecedented numbers? And I've heard reports that the crematoriums that are now in operation are going 24 seven, and they're not able to burn the bodies fast enough, because there's so many there were rumors that the garbage incinerators of yc DC and Yangon were being used to dispose of bodies that were just starting to find piled up on the streets. What are you finding about this grim reality of how many bodies and corpses are now developing from the death rate going up and up and the state's ability to simply handle the business of disposing of these bodies, this isn't a terrible, terrible thing to have to talk about.
Dr. Troy 1:07:29
You. You know that the numbers that are released by the official data by the Ministry of Health and sports are truly representative of the actual situation on Chrome. Because young alone has been reported over 1000 deaths daily over the past few weeks, according to multiple testimonies for the volunteers involved in the handling of the bodies in various cemeteries and verify media reports. And that's not even considering the outbreak is as bad, if not much worse, in other parts of the country, especially the rural areas where health care coverage has historic, historic, radically being sorry, I don't know, I slipped by time, sorry. This is not even considering the outbreak is as bad, if not worse, was in other parts of the country, especially the rural areas where the healthcare coverage has historically been poor in the and the urban areas. So that sharp rise in the dead is a stark contrast to the previous record around 100 deaths per day. And we have all the reasons to believe that many of these deaths have not been counted towards COVID-19 cases and thus do not contribute to the national numbers, because of the lack of testing capacities.
Host 1:09:06
The practical, the practical need to actually dispose the bodies that are coming at this high of rate. What do you know about what is happening to the corpse is where they're being left and the state's ability to handle disposing of them.
Dr. Troy 1:09:24
But to be honest, I'm not sure about that. Because, you know, to be honest, I, I all, I believe many of the doctors are currently overwhelmed with these COVID cases. We don't have even time to watch the news. You know, I didn't even check my Facebook for over a week. I didn't even I don't even know what's actually have any because all our focus and energy or energy and our mind are focusing on the COVID cases. So I'm sorry I that I couldn't answer. Question because? I'm not sure I could answer this question because I'm not updated with recent news.
Host 1:10:08
Sure, no. Yeah. Understood, understood, that's fine. And then, on that note, can you give us some sense of what your normal day looks like, during this third wave? What are you actually doing during the day?
Dr. Troy 1:10:24
Currently, I'm working at a hospital. But, um, and because I have to, you know, on for a living, but on our duty of ours, on our off days, I haven't seen the patients at 30, clinics and, and, and fire teleconsultations. And, you know, you know, I don't feel like I ended, I don't have personal life anymore. I haven't seen my mom for weeks, because I was super busy with these COVID cases. And all focus is just on on the COVID crisis. But still, we are losing many, many cases, because of the lack of oxygen, because of the, you know, these medicines, the price, I'm not sure how to say that the prices are going high, rapidly. So there are many challenges that we are facing right now. So even when we are trying our best to compare the COVID crisis, there are many limitations and challenges in this current situation. And we, even though we try our best, we don't feel like we have done enough, we don't feel satisfied, if we don't feel good, you know, we only feel that we are to try her. Because many cases, there are many cases who who, who didn't get proper medical treatment, and those who are taking home remedies and those and the most dangerous one is the people getting medical advice, and in and misleading information from the social media, Facebook, and I've seen a patient who came with a stroke. And according to his CT had, he is having a hemorrhage in his brain and want to get history from his attendance. He He took all the information, all the drugs that he get from the, from his social media, Facebook, to prevent the COVID, which includes the anti qwirkle and drugs, those are essential in treating of COVID cases. But but at the same time, these are really dangerous tracks, you know, which need to be carefully monitored by the physicians and, and they are controlled drugs, but the people are, you know, for the for the people, they they don't know where to get themselves tested to to, to get them treated, that the only thing they can do is to treat themselves with, with the information all they can get from the social media, which is really dangerous. And we are seeing they are having side effects from those misleading information and so on.
Host 1:13:48
And as you're helping people out and administering this aid, are you concerned for your own safety
Dr. Troy 1:13:55
net years? We never say we've don't feel safe at all. In this situation, but we have no choice. We can we can only still in hiding and in this crisis, because there's already a shortage of doctors, and many are die. And and sorry, many are in custody and some are. Some are dying ggd attacks by the armed forces. So we have no choice but to make our own lives to take care of our own fellow man. Even the creator of our own security.
Host 1:14:46
So knowing these risks and knowing what you're up against, where do you gather the courage to continue to help people in this way are there I imagine there would be good and bad days, and I wonder if there's days where you're overcome by fear or by hesitancy. And when those moments come where you're you're gripped by some negative emotion, how do you gather the courage to go out another day and help another set of people knowing the risks that that continually encouraged when you do?
Dr. Troy 1:15:26
The, you know, for every cases, there's always a silver lining. Even, even when we are living in a search, otherness, a tragic situation, we find the unity that we haven't seen in history, and such unity and, and, and, and the generosity of the people. If that's the silver lining in the situation, and people have met, there are many volunteers who want to help those in need and who, who don't care about their own safety to take care of others. And we believe that those mature how to say this, sorry. Those people motivate us to continue our walks, you know, and, yeah. So, I don't know, how do I answer the question, and we feel that it's the main, the main reason is, we feel that it's our responsibility, or as to fulfill the mission of all of the top pros, who don't have a voice anymore, and who don't have a chance to participate in the humanitarian duties. So we believe that it is our responsibility to fulfill that, that's all that is left behind them.
Host 1:17:13
As an outside observer, it's really something to hear this contrast of such evil and inhumanity and terror on one side, and such courage and selflessness and sacrifice on the other end, to see these two forces pitted against each other, or at least operating simultaneously. It's there's something tragic and seeing these fundamental human elements at play in this moment. Yes. Right. What this time, it seems like it's really bringing out a depth of emotion and values on either side, and seeing them juxtaposed side by side is, is something that one rarely really sees in a dynamic or in the world.
Dr. Troy 1:18:08
Yeah, totally. It's really hard for the doctors to, to cope with this situation, because we are really exhausted, both physically and mentally, on our mind, you know, we are getting psychological trauma every day, since the start of the coup. And it's really, really difficult, do fight, to stand up again and fight. But I feel like if we're not, if we stop here, all our fault will go nothing. All the lives that have lost will go with it. They didn't we, their lives, have de risked their lives so that we would continue in this part to the democracy. So we couldn't give up here even in this distress and, and those challenges we have to continue on this journey no matter what.
Host 1:19:25
So as you're fulfilling your duty to help the people who are in such need, and you're being targeted yourself, as you're trying to provide this support, and so much of your time is spent in taking care of others as you reference just now There comes the question of who's taking care of you guys, the doctors that are helping everyone else, day after day, week after week, and now month after month while they have these targets on their back and they're working in far less than ideal circumstances and facing this level of trauma and terror every day. Then you yourself are human doctors themselves are human with their own psychological needs and, and well being and instability. So how do you take care of yourself? How were doctors aware of their own needs of well being and looking after themselves and their own care?
Dr. Troy 1:20:20
Yeah, that's a good point. And that's totally a great question. And I'm not sure if you heard about this or not, but there was a suicide of a doctor. Because she left a world that she didn't. She She committed, committed suicide, because she feels like she hadn't done enough for the community, for our fellow colleagues, doctors and medical professionals. So she feels like she hadn't done enough. So that's why she takes her own life away and, and committed suicide. And those, or tragic incidents are traumatizing our mental health, but not sure. What motivates us to continue this. But just like I mentioned before, we cannot stop here. And we have to continue on this journey, no matter what, even though we are both physically and mentally exhausted. We have no choice.
Host 1:21:40
You talked about how you've been motivated by your oath, by the unity of the people by the hope for democracy. So these are things that motivate you, but the thing I'm asking about is how do you take care of yourself when, and doctors in general, when you're facing these terrible circumstances, day after day, and you're looking after the well being of others? What have you been doing to look after your own well being?
Dr. Troy 1:22:06
Yeah, I think that's the peer to peer support by the medical community. I think that that's, and that answer your question, because the medical community in Myanmar are very united, we feel that if someone was insulted, or or it's someone from our medical community was insulted, we feel that it is insulting the whole, every one of us. We feel like we are one. So on, I think that's why that's one of the factors that that. So give psychological support. That is the peer to peer support by the medical community. Many I can think of, that's the only one.
Host 1:23:06
Well, that's great, that's great to know that that's taking place in some form. Are there any things that you do personally, that look after your own self care? Like I've spoken to others who pursue some type of meditation or some quiet time or some Roma therapy or or various things they do in their own home that just give themself that little bit of peace? Is there anything that you've pursued?
Dr. Troy 1:23:33
I couldn't focus on mindfulness because of there are many things inside my mind going and are many thoughts about what's happening, or how all the tragic incidents that happen recently. So it's really difficult to focus on mindfulness at this time. So for Personally, I tried to speak with some colleagues who share similar interests in in, in the pursuit of this mission. And and I think that that's the only thing that that can psychologically support. The talk for me. Yeah.
Host 1:24:22
So you had a history or a background and mindfulness before the coup, but you're not really able to follow that practice. Now. Is that right?
Dr. Troy 1:24:31
Yeah. Yes.
Host 1:24:33
What tradition Were you involved in? What kind of practice of meditation and mindfulness Did you did you follow before the coup?
Dr. Troy 1:24:43
By medication, you don't have negative thoughts? And so which, which will only be which will make you peaceful and and don't have negative negative thoughts. And you can have great insights so that our parents, and our many other religious person trying to promote in medication, so and I, personally I like it a lot. And I tried to go to many med medication center and then give volunteer medical k at those centers. Every year. I like to go to those centers and, and Medicaid, myself and in in the free time I give Medicare of the other four participants. And that's what I do every new year New Year of new memory here. Due to the coup, he didn't happen, and I didn't have a chance to go to that. No, I can even focus myself at home.
Host 1:26:08
And what kind of meditation tradition or lineage or teachings Did you follow?
Dr. Troy 1:26:17
Yeah, actually met medication, it's simple, you just try to focus on breathing in and breathing out, and nothing else. And one, of course, the mine is, you know, it's such a very interesting structure of the body because it can have millions of thoughts in a second, but we try to focus on the breath and, and which makes us more insightful and, and good in focusing on on everyday lives. But in reality, it's not that easy. It sounds very simple, straightforward. But in reality, it's not that easy. It takes a lot of mental power to focus to keep you focused in this short time.
Host 1:27:21
Yeah. Did you follow like Mohawk or mahasi? or some type of method?
Dr. Troy 1:27:27
Personally, I'm performing mogul method.
Host 1:27:32
And what did you like about mobile?
Dr. Troy 1:27:35
You know, it's just trying to focus on in most of my day, you don't have to focus only on the breathing. And some of the lecturer said that, if you're, if you feel the nervousness of your legs, while your medication, you can focus refocus it into the legs, or you don't have to force yourself to just focus on the breath, you can, you can also focus it to the nevertheless, numbness of the lens, so that that the numbers will go away, and then you can refocus it into the production. So that's what I like about because most of the cases, all of them try to force the participants to just focus on the breath. But it's really difficult for us to do so. You know? Yeah, I have. Yeah. So I personally like local method.
Host 1:28:39
And this is the Patisammupada. That is a central part of the teachings. Yeah, that's right, this one. And so is part of your practice studying that and trying to understand these, the law of cause and effect as well.
Dr. Troy 1:28:53
Yeah, that's a doctor, the critical thinking and logical team is really important. And medication promotes us in those thinking, because we have to make critical, critical decision in a short time in, especially in emergency cases, we don't have much time to decide, think and decide. Because every second is valuable. So we have to make the most appropriate decision in a short time and the medication can help us in doing so. That's why
Host 1:29:34
right? So you mentioned how even during the coup, you're not really able to follow any practice because your mind just simply doesn't have stability. But before the coup, you had a background in going to a number of mogul retreats and and committing yourself to the methods so even though you're not able to practice now, do you find that your background of practice before the coup has come to help your work now?
Dr. Troy 1:30:00
Yes, I think that that's, that made me come even. And focus on continuing out my, my thoughts against in the pursuit of this mission, even after facing those agonizing, and tragedy, I can continue this journey with, with full attention and focus. And I think that's because of those training and those habits from the medication that I did in the past.
Host 1:30:41
That's really beautiful. Can you give any example of some situation that you faced after the coup that was particularly, I don't know, dangerous, or difficult or challenging or complicated. And you felt that you were able to handle that situation? Because of your background and meditation? Is there any specific example that comes to mind that illustrates that?
Dr. Troy 1:31:07
Yes, totally. one incident that I mentioned before, about my colleague being abducted at the charter clinic has shock. That came as a huge shock to me that I didn't know what to do at that time, I was literally freeze. My whole body was freeze, literally. And I by my, my mind was blank. I, I couldn't make any decision at the time. But I try to remind myself to refocus that, if I'm standing like that, I will also get in I will also get abducted together with my clay. But if we, if I can refocus myself, and continue those humanitarian aids that is loved by my colleague, and have them for from from the outside. So I'll try to make some logical thinking. I could, I could make some logical thinking a, even in that shock, shocking period. And that's thanks to all the training methods from the medication.
Host 1:32:30
That's great. That's great. So because of your background and Mogok, you were able to face a traumatic situation and respond without reacting to the terror or the fear but in a more a more logical and calm way.
Dr. Troy 1:32:47
Yes, that's right.
Host 1:32:52
Yeah, right. I had a similar situation where my background of meditation came to help me in one of the most scariest times of my life, which was actually in Myanmar in 2008. I was there when Nargis hit Cyclone Nargis and I was in Yangon. And I happened to be in a condo that received the forces of the wind on both sides of the whole building, the condo that I was in was the one that was hit with the most force. And it was a terrible situation the roof starting to come off and the water starting to pour through everything the windows breathing in and out and about to explode. And when I stepped outside the door, I saw that the electrical paneling in the ceiling had all come down and there was debris all outside of my door and in the condo building that I was in. So in other words, I realized I had a choice of staying in my condo and having the entire thing destructed and, and being torn apart, or trying to escape the condo, but having debris and wires and electrical things all around and perhaps being hit by something and I started to panic. And as I think many people wouldn't that situation of having a choice between two very bad options and not knowing which one was going to give greater survival and every second kind of making the situation worse, whether you left or you stayed and at that moment, I realized I was panicking in my background and meditation kicked in. And as my apartment was literally falling to pieces, I sat down on my sofa and I just observed my breathing because I thought I I am in such a bad mental state. I don't know what to do and I can't make a good decision I need to at least try to calm my mind enough to try to make a decision of of what I do and where I go. So as my apartment was being torn asunder by the cyclone I sat down on my cell phone for five minutes. I just did on upon on just I tried to observe my respiration going in and out of my nose, just to try to calm myself enough. And after about five minutes of that I was still in terrible panic and fear. But suddenly I had this thought that as the mind started to calm, just a little I had this thought occurred to me, oh, you're not a victim, you're you have a choice, you have agency, you, you can do something, you can decide to either stay in your apartment as it's being torn apart, or you can run out of your apartment and try to escape even though things are flying everywhere. And you might not be safe, you might not make it you might not survive, but you're not a victim, you can choose which one you do, and then do it as successfully as you can. Don't just sit and wait for bad things to happen. And that thought occurred to me only because I had sat down and calm my mind through this meditation practice. And I don't want to say I was I suddenly had this moment of Zen calm where I was just completely okay with everything. No, I was panicked. And I was terrified. But I had enough mental capability to realize I could do something that I had agency and choice in what I did in this disaster. And so that moment in my mind shifted, and I thought, okay, let's make a detached judgment. Are my chances of survival better by staying? Are they better by going? They're going to they're not 100%? In either case, but in which example, do I have a better chance of survival? And then how do I do that, in the best way possible. And so I just kind of sat and thought about it and reflected on it. And then I realized, you know, I think that my chances of survival are better by by going and try and I should mention, I was on the 10th floor, and the elevators weren't working. So really, there were two bad choices. But I determined that it was probably wiser for me to escape them to stay. So with that in mind, I had a certain sense of fortitude. And I said, Okay, I'm going to try to escape and, and this is the best option for me, and we'll see if I can do it. And, and, of course, I'm here now. So I was able to escape, my apartment was completely torn apart, and with water coming in, through through everywhere. But that was an example of me. And in my case, were in being in a situation of pure terror, the meditation training came to benefit me in ways that I didn't necessarily expect and given me just a moment of calm to be able to make a better decision.
Dr. Troy 1:37:43
That's a great story. Yeah, totally. And thank you for telling me this. Yeah, that's a great story.
Host 1:37:53
So yeah, with that in mind, that's why I'm also curious about where it's coming into play with you. And I realize these are two different scenarios, in some sense, actually, the the comparison between what I faced in cycle naugus, and what you faced when, when you realize that, that the military had abducted your colleague, those are somewhat similar in the sense that there are moments you know, they're their actual moments of terror, where the mind is overcome by the negativity of fear. And the meditation training kicks in to give options of a little bit of relaxation, a little bit of rest, a little bit of distance and detachment, to be able to make better decisions going forward in in that really terrible and really scary state. So in that sense, those two incidences there is some similarity but where there's not similarity is the just the the long days that you're facing, you know, we're not talking about a single minute of a cyclone hitting or a military abducting someone, we're talking about day after day or week, after week or month after month, where you just have to keep doing it and doing it and doing it and and I think as in the terrible case of the doctor who committed suicide that you shared, there are these dangers that the doctors themselves could be falling apart to some extent you know, mentally and physically and that they and you yourself has said that no matter how much you do you feel like it's not enough you feel like and that's I think that's a that's a very understandable human emotion. You feel that no matter how much you're giving your guilt, right survivor's guilt and guilt of not being able to do enough for the people there. So that's, that's more that's not so much a moment of terror panic, that's more like a sustained situation where you are breaking down and have to administer some kind of self care to keep going and to keep helping people. So and one of the things you mentioned is that the peer to peer interaction really helps us Being able to talk to people and talk to your fellow doctors and find a way through and get that motivation. And that's really wonderful. And you've mentioned how you're not able to meditate and practice now, because it's just the mind doesn't have any moment of stability during that, but do you find during that even if you're not able to practice now, and I hope you can find carve out some time in some way to, to even if you're not doing a proper strong meditation sitting that you at least have some kind of some kind of a rough awareness that grounds you in some sense. But even if you can't do that, is there your your years and years of Mohawk training before this moment? Has that been able to kick in to help you to just take care of yourself and be kind to yourself and bring some kind of stability during hard times?
Dr. Troy 1:40:53
Yes. I think that, that might help me subconsciously, you know, I didn't get to know. I might not know it. I might not notice it. But it I think it helped me a lot subconsciously. Right. And yeah, because, you know, when I've faced that dangerous and shocking situation, I could, I could manage to refocus myself in this situation, instead of getting abducted, I escaped. And I end to end don't think that's just the pure luck. And I think that's due to the these practices and help from from those medications. And, and it really helps as to make logical and critical thinking in such emergency situations.
Host 1:41:58
Right, right. And I wonder Also, your practice as Mohawk and Mohawk is known for being something more of an analytical and critical and intellectual practice where you're not just closing your eyes and going into the body, but you're also studying analyzing, thinking, so I wonder if mogo particularly suited you because you're an academic medical profession?
Dr. Troy 1:42:25
Yeah, that helped me a lot. And, and many, I find myself that I can, you know, it is more easier, it is easier for me to understand the process and the pathologies of the diseases better after I enjoy these medication practices, because instead of just reading the passages, I tried to analyze it, and I tried to understand the depth of every text, so that it is easier for me to, to remember it. And you know, I can understand it in a short time. And, and that's thanks to those trainings and practices from the medications in mocha.
Host 1:43:21
Right? So your background and meditation has actually helped you to be a better doctor and to absorb information faster and into greater depth.
Dr. Troy 1:43:30
That's right. That's
Host 1:43:34
right. So I want to ask you a question that kind of combines your background of Buddhist practice and belief with the terror that you're facing and the evil that you're up against. So you mentioned that you look at the behavior of the soldiers and military and you no longer see them as people you see them as monsters and what they're doing, you can't relate any humanity to some of their actions. And you're not unique in saying this. I've heard this from many people and facing what is being pushed upon them now. So with this in mind, looking at the the soldiers and what they're doing and your characterization of them as monsters, and your background as a Buddhist, do you have any capacity right now to think of sending metta to them of wishing for their well being? Or given the stakes and the chaos of what's happening? Is that simply something that your mind just can't go to right now?
Dr. Troy 1:44:41
Yes, it's hard to say exactly. But I think even though they appear that they don't care about the tragedies and they don't care about the that that people which is caused by them those incidents are also I believe that those incidents are also hunting down in their subconscious mind. The the the the the might seem not giving, not giving care about what happened to other people, but deep inside these might even haunting them every night. They are living in terror, and people are getting the will and the enthusiasm of the people are getting stronger and stronger. Even when we are relentlessly repressed. But I think they are the ones who are living in fear. Because they know they are doing they are doing the evil team, but they keep doing so because of years of you know, brain. How can I say brainwash for buying it buying the regime, murderous regime, so they have to continue doing so but deep inside, they notice not right. And this mark must also hunting them every night. They couldn't lie to you, you can lie to yourself, right?
Host 1:46:30
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's very true that they probably are suffering in all those ways. And that's a good reminder about the universal human suffering that's in all of us, no matter where we come from, and what our backgrounds are, and what is coming up for them based on what they're having to face. And I think that's good to keep in mind, I still wonder from your background as a practicing Buddhist, and knowing that the Buddha did advise that we are to send metta to everyone were to send well wishes to all beings even. And in the traditional way, that meta meta sense, you know, first you, you share you, you share your your good wishes, and your meta with those that are, are close to you, and you have good relationships with and then you move on to neutral people, and you cast them in different directions. And there's different ways of going about it. But in every formulation, the last on the list is always the enemies, the people that we don't like and that we disagree with. And the reason that it's last is the expectation that we build up this kind of good feeling and good wishes and this momentum for those that are easier to care about and send good wishes for. And then once that energy is flowing, it gets to the end of the line, and it eventually is strong enough that it can even go towards those that we don't necessarily like. And I know this might be a sensitive question, and it might not be one year ready to answer and might not be something you're capable of which would be totally understandable. But I'm just curious if there if you feel that there's any ability right now to think of metaphor, these people that are causing you so much immense suffering, and that causing the people that you're administering so much immense suffering, or if at this time, that's just simply a place that the mind can go with this moment.
Dr. Troy 1:48:28
Yeah, totally. It's really difficult to say exactly, but you know, the real religion every religion is deep, you know, we go we can only end us 10 the true meaning of religion is fine. He is in use of practice in them. We cannot say that it is not true. Because we don't know it in detail. You know? Like, we cannot it's, it's really easy to confuse the religion in this critical situation because in goodish, we believe that what goes what, if you do good deeds, good things will happen to you. If you don't, if you do bad deeds and hot, hot, hot, others of the similar things might be happen to you. But it is really difficult to believe in that logic in this current situation because military and the handfulls has been haunting and attacking the innocent civilians, including the one year old, innocent child, but some people seem to think that they are not, you know, getting the punishment and they dissolve. So that's why many youths have turned became It is because of this incident but for personally I believe that there are many things that we don't understand. And we cannot deny it because we we lack experience and in in an understanding of the true meaning of of it, you know that that's why I tried to focus the religion and, and and current situation in a separate way we you can confuse with that
Host 1:50:38
there was a famous incident of the massacre and length AR, there was several months back. And there was a doctor that was there trying to help people and became overwhelmed by the suffering and the carnage and the death and the blood around him and ended up writing a kind of essay or poem about his experience that went viral and became very famous. And one of the lines from his writing that has been repeated over and over during the protests, I'm paraphrasing, he said something like, at one point, I just start to wonder, am I saving more lives with a scalpel or with a gun. And I wonder if you have, as a doctor have also had that kind of reflection, given the the response of what's happening with the military.
Dr. Troy 1:51:31
You know, we are we have been trained to give medical, okay, and taking care of the sick and injured, we are not trying to hook and we are not trying to have contact with the other people. So having medical knowledge and doing emergency life saving measures that that's what we are experts on. So for Personally, I believe we should focus on taking care of those or, or giving health education of the first aid training instead of those, you know, that we are not familiar with, because that would be a waste of human resource to the medical professional, that that's just my personal opinion. I don't want to insult to other people believe in decisions. That's just my personal opinion. So that's why I just tried to focus all my energy and force on all taken care of don't have the patience and to give training to the general public as much as possible.
Host 1:52:53
Right, right. Is there something that you think the international community could be doing more to support you at this time?
Dr. Troy 1:53:00
Yes, totally. Because just, just like I've mentioned before, the COVID situation in Myanmar is threatening the global COVID pandemic strategy, containment strategy. And mo becoming a super strategy is risking the whole war. So the inaction from the International will have consequences of for for the neighboring countries and the whole war so and the people in Yemen has been showing our democracy and in peaceful, no peaceful protests and, and how our movements and our we need international support as as much as possible. For those who are relentlessly repressed, find a hunter. But some of the people feel that they are helpless, because of they don't feel like they are getting enough assistance from the International but I totally understand that. They have many, you know, processes and difficulties that are faced by the international communities and they want to help as much as they could. But I try to I want to request to the international community that we are losing our future generations everyday. So one day of inaction is the one day with unnecessary loss of lives. So we need an action and international intervention as soon as possible.
Host 1:54:57
And medically speaking, are there things That international community can do in a human humanitarian sense.
Dr. Troy 1:55:06
Sure, sure. So, personally, I think the international community should focus on the protection of the medical professional, so that we can save more lives. You know, they, they are many, you know, based on my consideration of the current situation, or their short term solution and long term solution for in terms of short term solutions, I think the protection of the medical professional is is a very important thing right now, and because, because of the medical professionals that are in need of the country the most in this critical situation, and the hunter is continuing attacks in this, even even amid COVID crisis. So, we need the international community to do all intervention possible to immediately stop targeting and attacking the healthcare system, and to release all the medical professionals in detention, who are in need by the country the most in this critical situation. And, and last but not least, the protection of the medical professionals and volunteers with the highest authorities by the United Nation. And it's really important to implement a neutral workplace where the patients and healthcare workers are under a certain level of protection by the international bodies. Because hospitals and clinics should be a place accessible to everyone, regardless of their gender, race, religion, or political spectrum, and recuperate safety. And the long term young and for the long term solution is to hold the honcho accountable for the mismanagement of the pandemic in the country, and for the crimes against humanity committed by the enforcers.
Host 1:57:22
Thank you for that. And I also want to remind listeners that we have our own nonprofit that are Burma, where any donation given that is earmarked for your cause, and what you're doing and administering to the people that are in need, we can definitely support you through any donations that are coming with that specified. So I want to encourage listeners that are hearing this and perhaps feeling helpless feeling that they wish there was something they can do that there is something and listening to this, that any any funds that you would generously provide, we can go to support the mission of Dr. Troy that we're hearing from today. And with that in mind, I thank you so much for joining us. I know it's very late on your end, we've been trying to connect for weeks now and with how much you're doing in your time is very, very limited. And so I really appreciate you using that limited time to be able to come on and talk with us. I know what a sacrifice that is. And I think it's been of enormous benefit to listeners. And before we close now that you do have this platform, you do have the ear of those that are still with us. Is there any final words you want to say of anything that wasn't covered in the talk?
Dr. Troy 1:58:46
I think you know, I'm not sure what to say. But you know, I want to say in one less time, I want to say the one last time that we need more doctors, plead to the international community to help us save our fellow men, our fellow countrymen, Stan stand in solidarity with us and walk with us. If there's a time to act, it is now Thank you.
Host 1:59:45
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