Transcript: Episode #48: Touches with the Golden Land
Following is the full transcript for the interviews with these speakers, which appeared on April 20, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:32
For those who have been listening to our latest episodes or catching up on the recent events, you don't need me to tell you that the news coming out of Myanmar right now is not good. You're probably following these stories because you care deeply about the country and the people on some level or another. The same concerns animating our own teams effort to produce content at a higher pace than ever before. Still, the heaviness of these topics that we're dealing with can sometimes feel overwhelming. Speaking for myself, it can be an emotional roller coaster to balance the optimism I feel witnessing the courage of the nonviolent protesters in the face of the military's aggressiveness, with the dread and anxiety that comes from seeing the top mythos terror tactics. With this in mind, we want to present a new series that will allow us to take a short respite from the intensity of the current events now taking place, but which will keep us firmly rooted our love for the golden land, titled love letters to me and Maher episodes will feature a wide range of speakers who reflect back on what the country and the people have meant to them. In this series, guests will be sharing their warmest memories and anecdotes discuss what life lessons they have learned from their time there and talk openly about the role that the country has played in their lives. We'll be checking in with meditators, teachers, scholars, aid workers, exiles, diplomats, celebrities, and many more, to showcase how widely the influences of how Myanmar has touched people from such diverse backgrounds. This series should not be seen as an escape from the current circumstances. And indeed, We firmly believe that part of our ethical responsibility at this time as people connected to the country is to stay informed, bear witness and do whatever we can to help the people there keep open this narrow and rapidly closing crack of freedom. Rather, we hope this series can be something of a counterbalance to the sometimes overwhelming news streaming to us daily, if not hourly, and can help to remind us of why we all care so much about this region in the first place. In other words, these shows can keep our hearts firmly rooted in the golden land, while also providing a sense of renewed energy and perseverance as we face the latest developments and updates. With that. I'm really excited about the interviews that comprise this inaugural episode. And I want to especially thank Ashley Lewin, a Burmese American friend who conducted them for her stellar job behind the microphone. Her curiosity engagement and active listening made me feel like I was right in the room with Ashley and her guests. And I think you'll feel the same when you listen. So first up, you'll hear from Lee of a passionate meditator in the tradition of sn Goenka who had worked with resettled Burmese refugees in Dallas. From there, she moved on to New York City, where she made friends with the sizable Burmese community and ended up joining the tech startup with a Burmese friend that ultimately brought her to Yangon, where she was able to visit pilgrimage sites in her meditation tradition, as well as to attend and serve courses at the traditions Burmese centers. Next up is Bray Sloan, who served as the defense attache at the US Embassy in Yangon. She describes how the country of Myanmar transformed during those years, and her personal encounters with figures ranging from Aung San su Chi to general Mundo mine. She also speaks to the discomfort that many top military officials felt and interacting with her as a woman in an equal position in the military ranks. Finally, we end with EV an Austrian Yogi who has been going to the country for meditation practice since 1994. Studying under teachers such as say that we Pandita sure you mean Santa and say that will teach India she discusses how these spiritual teachings along with the generosity she experienced in Burmese society have transformed and enriched her life. So grab your favorite beverage and find a comfortable spot to relax and settle in to be transported back to a place that unfortunately, well for now anyway, exists only in our memories. If you've had the fortune of ever visiting the golden land yourself, I hope these conversations trigger your own warm memories from your time in that country. I know it did for me. And if you've never been sit back and enjoy the narrative tour that the following speakers we'll take you on. Oh one more thing before I close out. Please make sure to stick around to take in a bonus feature of hearing at the conclusion of these interviews, a roundtable discussion between me and said Several members of the youth organization global movement from Myanmar democracy Insight Myanmar podcast has been collaborating with this group to host an exciting virtual event on April 24, in which artists from around the world will be donating their pieces. With all proceeds going to those in need in the Mr. Now, catch the full details at the end of this episode. Hey,
07:07
way better than
07:10
a
07:11
good day.
07:37
Hello Lee, thank
Ashley 07:38
you so much for joining us today. Hi, Ashley.
Lee 07:41
Thanks for welcoming me. Thanks for inviting me. It's
Ashley 07:44
good to have you here. Can you share with us a little bit about yourself? Yeah,
Lee 07:50
sure. Um, so let's see. I am an American lives in Myanmar before and just had connections to Myanmar. in different parts of my life,
Ashley 08:05
that's really interesting, that you've had an opportunity to to live in Myanmar and and work there as well. Is there anything that you'd like to share with us about your your time in your Mar,
Lee 08:19
there's been various touch points in my life that I've been just connected or exposed to me, Mr. And the first will probably be in my younger years, when I was introduced to my meditation practice, and and, you know, my meditation teacher sn Goenka is from Myanmar and recognized that Myanmar had a crucial role to play in the history of the transmission of, of this meditation that I practice. And then even in my career to like growing up after I graduated from college, my first job was working with resettled refugees in Dallas, Texas. And there I work with Burmese refugees as well of different ethnic minorities, the Karen the chin and the curry. And, and so that was, you know, I don't I can't say I remember going up with Burmese people in my life, but I think a few of my early exposures or connections to Myanmar were were those was in my work and also in meditation. And even when I moved to New York and I met a few more Burmese people, there's more of a Burmese community here. Then, you know, I I became friends with some of them. And then one of my friends invited me to work at a tech startup that he founded in Myanmar. And, and so at that time, I was at a point in my career where I was trying to get away from my current job and trying to search for something new. And, and so I stayed there for a year I worked with him in in his company. And, of course, I've also been the place where, where, as I mentioned before the meditation that our practice is transmitted, I also visited a lot of pilgrimage sites, and learn the language and even did some service activities with the Burmese community there. So So yeah, it was it was lots of rich experiences. there and, and also, you know, some contrasts with what I may have believed or thought before going there as well.
Ashley 11:09
Wow. Yeah, that's amazing. It sounds like you had some prior exposure to Myanmar, you know, through meditation and through some of your volunteer work. And it sounds like your experience, your exposure to Burma was actually the opposite of mine, where you grew up in the West knew about Burma, and then you went there. What was that like for you, you know, having had some understanding or knowledge of what Myanmar Burma would be like?
Lee 11:41
You know, I think I think what really struck me when I first lived in Myanmar was kind of the difference between my impressions before going there. And then how was actually was when I went because the people that I've talked to, before going, probably visited a few years back and talked about how quaint it was, and like laid back. And but when I lived in Yangon, I felt like people were busy, it was quite a busy city. You know, it was, it was busy traffic, there was traffic was really congested in Yangon. And that was probably a much different kind of seeing that my friends experienced, you know, so I was there, like 2017 2018. And so I was sensing. I mean, it's still laid back, like, don't get me wrong, it's still it's silly back. But I felt like well, you know, Burmese people are busy, you know, they, they have things going on, they're searching for the next thing. They're busy working. And so the pace of life was much quicker than than I had expected. For sure that that was one thing that struck me. But they're also a few things that didn't surprise me so much at all. And like I said, I've had some exposure to working with Burmese people and and with the knowledge that they have a really strong Buddhist culture. Like the ethics, the expression of themselves also comes through in that regard. Because Yeah, one of the first things I remember was, when I was I think it was on my, one of my first two weeks visiting downtown at near the SU a pagoda area. And and just notice, like few, a few people like passing around cups of orange soda from the back of their truck, just to any people that walk by just like passers by and just and then I was just observing, I was like, oh, what's going on there? Like, what's, what's happening, you know, and then as I got closer, I just realized they were just handing them to random people. Like, why? Because it was a hot day, it was it was a hot day. Um, and why not? And that's just just kind of, and that wasn't the one of the only times that I've like, observed those acts of charity in Myanmar, but, you know, it was there were a lot more instances, but that was that's like a very Burmese thing as it came to know, later. Yeah, one of one of the things they do and how they express generosity and like the sense of donation as a kind of, core principle of of, of practicing Buddhism. So, so so so in that sense, yeah, that there were some things that were also, like heartened me and made me feel like, Oh, so this is how it's like, Oh, looks like familiar, you know. And yeah, um, I should also mention, like, I also got to experience meditation being taught in Myanmar, as opposed to the way I've experienced it, in the US, even from the same teacher and the same people in the community. And I've had the opportunity to observe a few children's courses with children's meditation courses there. And, you know, I think, I think it was telling because I think one of the things to, to note, like, if you want to find out or understand about a place and a culture, you can observe what they teach their children. And it was just really obvious watching the children that they were taught meditation at a really young age, and were able to sit still, and, you know, recite the triple gem, like just all in unison, and by memory. Yeah, and, and so that was a special experience. And I went to a few of the courses, even ones where they've taught, even deaf children, so we went to court was in an orphanage, or it was a deaf school, but like a boarding school for children that are deaf or hard of hearing. And, and the teachers are so creative and trying to teach meditation, it's kind of hard when you have to close your eyes, you know, during meditation, and so how do you transmit that and so that also was like, wow, they try really hard. to, to even make this accessible to kids with disabilities, and the kids were also really genuine and like, really, really, like willing to learn. They, they weren't, like, helping each other with the instructions, like telling each other, using sign language to tell each other, like, what the instructions were later, like what they were really saying. Or they also like asked, like, if meditation was taught being elsewhere, or for kids that's, that are disabled elsewhere. And so they were also like, really interested. So that was a really sweet experience.
Ashley 17:48
Yeah, that's amazing. It sounds like you, you observed that in Myanmar, the Buddhist teachings through you know, maybe the precepts and, and just the meditation practice is just so deeply in meshed in, in the culture, and very valued. And so, you know, having spent a year there and having, you know, witness different settings for for meditation, and different acts of, you know, generosity and those types of things. What role would you say that Jamar has played in your life? Like, did it? Did it change the way you saw things or the way that you related to things?
Lee 18:30
I think it taught me a lot about complexity, or just just being able to experience firsthand the complex story of a place. Um, because like, it's, I think it's easy. It's, I mean, this is probably the longest time I've stayed in. And I think any one country outside my own. And so it's easy to see from the outside and simplify, kind of a place like, and I think in recent years, it's kind of been like that for me and more like people within my meditation community, like the golden land, and it's a place where Dhamma you know, flourishes are one of the last Shangri LA's kind of image. And it's, there's, it's a place of conflict and power struggles. And so people within my international development community may just be like, Well, why go there? Or is it safe? You know, it's just kind of, and then it made me realize how Oh, wow, like, from the outside, there's kind of one of those two perceptions, but but living there, you know, sometimes you can you can feel that complexity. Yes, it is, it is a place to like, find and learn, you know, a way of being peaceful or learn meditation.
20:10
And
Lee 20:13
you know, in some sense, it was it was all very safe. When I was there too, are part of the reason why seeing what's going on right now, there with the military coup taking over. Is, is so sad and painful is because when I was there, it was so safe. It was you could just feel free to do to go anywhere, do anything even like not were worried about petty theft. Yeah, it was just a place in Virginia with so much growth. And so it's just really jarring right now, you know, to see see online, these images of things that are happening and intersections that I've been in? And to feel that, like, yeah, my friends, they're not safe anymore. It's it's just a completely different place. Now versus then. And, and, and so, I mean, going back to like, what I follow about complexity is that like, it's, it's interesting being there, because you feel like it was, there was it was safe, and also growing and expanding. But at the same time, you know, you hear stories about well, the military is actually still in power. Are you still reminded of the fact that like, this country's, like, I mean, transitioning. Yes. And but you know, it's, it's still trying to grow out of that. And so there's a lot of, there are a lot of instances where you're reminded of that, and in that complexity, so it's while it's shocking. To see the things that are happening right now. It's also not surprising, it's, it's just that kind of complexity. That's there. So it's just, yeah, it's just like, no one sided view to view these things. It's, you know, you can experience all sorts of feelings being there, as well, right.
Ashley 22:15
Yeah, I love that. You mentioned the complexity of it, because you're right, like, even though they've made such progress over the last 10 or so years. There was always just that sense that the military was still its presence was still there, you know, that the democracy that they were building was still very, very fragile. So
Lee 22:35
yes, yes. And actually, one of the things that I was most inspired by was just how, how creative. More people weren't still like how, in this period of transition and growth, there was so much hard work, and so much resilience. You know, the just people trying to upskill or like, even, like repacks, coming back from Singapore, wanting to develop the country, and young people trying to educate themselves. And it was, it was just, I feel like I witnessed like some kind of like heyday of Myanmar just like trying to modernize and kind of the, like, really felt like the potential of what it could. It could be and, and, of course, it's all made up of the people there that that really inspired. Like, their drive was very inspiring, as well as their kindness, as I mentioned before, right.
Ashley 23:35
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. You mentioned the repacks, as well, because I've heard you know, I've heard so many people that were either born in Burma or their parents were born in Burma that were making plans to go back to Burma and help recreate a more sustainable structure of a society and that seems less likely with the with the military coup.
Lee 23:58
That's That's the sad part.
Ashley 24:00
So how are you managing right now with, you know, seeing these images of places that you've been to in the past and seeing it transformed into what looks almost like a war zone? How are you managing and do you have any message that you'd like to share with people in Jamar right now?
Lee 24:18
Yeah, you know,
24:19
it's
24:19
it's really jarring because
24:25
like, I forgot to choke, I
Lee 24:28
didn't realize so that was what happened, but like,
24:37
I just realized that like,
Lee 24:41
I haven't experienced before, like knowing friends. Like, you know, like now I literally have friends that are under a military dictatorship. And so it just so it really is Does something to your world. You know, it's, it's, you hear about conflict going on in, in places of the world. It's like, and of course you feel things and you feel
25:18
horrible about them. And, and,
Lee 25:20
but this feels like it's so close. And even just being there for one year, you know, and so it's just so. So it is it is really jarring. Um, I didn't, I didn't think I would get so trumped up.
Jasmine 25:40
But like, yeah, it's, it's hard,
Lee 25:42
I think, um, you know, just just doing what I can, I'm keeping track of the news every day. I'm checking in with my friends, every now and then. In, you know, just just doing little things that I could do. putting money in certain trusted fundraisers, or? Or protests or something, you know, and, and so, yeah, but it's, it really feels like, just closer to home. So, yeah, it was just like, also the past, like, year, you know, it just feels like there's been all these crises, I feel closer to home. So, so I think it's just a reminder of how kind of fragile our lifes are, you know, and, and, yeah, so, so just, yeah, feeling really odd about my privilege to? It's been hard, but like, I mean, what can I say? I think it's also, I think it's a moment of transition, I think. Like I said, like, I've seen the potential of what Myanmar can be. And it's, it's been very inspiring, again, to, to watch how people are creatively protesting. And still, like, just upholding, like, very basic, but, like, necessary and profound actions, like non violence. And, yeah, I
Jasmine 27:16
think I think it's,
Lee 27:19
it could be a moment of significant opportunity, like, transitions are painful, but like, it's also a sign that the old system is not serving us anymore. And, you know, one of the things that's, you know, I've seen across social media, and it's just noticing that there's, there's more unity, it seems across, like the country than there has been before, at least across like all identity lines, to have this desire to kind of, of course, having a common enemy helps. Which is the military and then that just transitioning to greater democracy. So So I mean, if I had something to say, to the numerous people right now, I would just say, really tried to, I mean, they're already doing this, but just, you know, recognizing this moment, how critical it could be for, for unity, and that like, even though the time is painful, and there are like, you know, cracks, you know, like, that's that there's still like, light and and that's that, yeah, there's there's still opportunity to, to move beyond and, and then, of course, this is what they're fighting for.
Ashley 28:38
Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think you said that beautifully. For a lot of people, they might assume that, you know, Burma is well, there's Burmese people that live there. But actually, it's such a diverse country with just so many ethnic groups, and, you know, they have their own languages and their own dress and their own regions. And, and I think that diversity can really create Well, it can create some different power struggles and different needs. And how do you juggle all of that, you know? And yeah, like you, I've also felt, you know, just awkward at times when I'm fixing myself a nice meal and knowing that there's friends and family members out there strangers that are, you know, fearing for their life, it's really a weird feeling. to, you know, be in such a safe environment. It's almost like you're living in parallel universes at the same time. Yeah,
Lee 29:39
yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like, how can you be writing at the same time? Yeah.
Ashley 29:45
Well, thank you so much, Lee, for, you know, everything that you've been doing to support the people in your Mar. You know, whether it's attending protests or getting involved in different organizations
Lee 29:59
and just spreading awareness and really just caring about about them. So absolutely, actually, I mean, of course, you've always you've extended quite a few invitations to me, as well to be involved. So So thank you. And thank you for, for holding this talk. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Ashley 30:55
I braid. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Brey Sloan 30:59
Thank you for having me.
Ashley 31:00
Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Brey Sloan 31:04
Sure. I am currently a retired Army colonel. I spent almost four years living and working at the US Embassy in Yangon, and enjoyed almost every minute of it.
Ashley 31:23
That's pretty incredible. Can you tell us a little bit more about it? Sure.
Brey Sloan 31:27
I was what we call the defense attache. So I was the senior military person representing the US government in the country of Myanmar. And so when I got there, it was directly after Cyclone Nargis had hit so just about a month and a half afterwards, and everything was still in recovery mode. And I was fortunate enough to be there during just the most fascinating time. When I first got there. Like I said, it was just after Nargis on sound, Suchi was still under house arrest, and the Hunter was very firmly in control. And then, over the course of the next three and a half years, the roadmap for democracy came about and they had the first elections and Aung San Su, she was released from house arrest and all sorts of very exciting things were happening. It was, it was an exciting time to be there. Every day, something new would happen. It was it was just thrilling to open up the news every day and watch what had changed overnight as political prisoners were released. And all these different things were happening. We were part of part of my job, there was representational duties with other embassies and with other officials from the host nation from Yangon, from Myanmar. And so we did a lot of entertaining in our residence, which was very close to the Chinese Embassy after the election occurred, and when things were starting to open up. And there was talk of lifting the international sanctions, we had a couple of business guys asked us if we wanted to stay in Yangon, and operate a business for them. And we thought it sounded like a great idea. But the army decided that they were not quite ready to let us go. So they sent us off to Japan afterward. And we never did manage to get back into the business. But we would have loved to because we very much enjoyed living in Myanmar for those four years.
Ashley 33:32
How long were you there?
Brey Sloan 33:35
We were there. It was just under four years, it was three years, 10 months.
Ashley 33:40
I see. And what were some things that stood out to you about the culture or the country that you enjoyed.
Brey Sloan 33:47
The country is absolutely beautiful. It is just one of the most beautiful places. I know. It's, it's fascinating if you get a chance to move about the country, especially if you know anything about the military history of the place. You see these immense mountain ranges in this extreme terrain that people had to operate over. And it just gives you a lot of more respect and admiration for the things that they were able to accomplish in in that terrain. I wish we had been able to go all over the country, there were a number of places that we weren't allowed to go into because they were restricted. But I was able to go from michiana all the way to Las Rio and town G and any of a number of places in between plus many times and maybe go up which is not actually my favorite part of the country. But the people that we met uniformly just wonderful people. We made a lot of friends We were able to speak with people from all different parts of the country. And it was just a wonderful experience. It's an unusual place the the government at the time. Not necessarily the most wonderful people, and certainly not the easiest to talk to or get to know. But you're just average mount mount on the street. Very nice. And the kids always wonderful. So it was it was a lovely place a lovely time. It's one of my favorite postings that I had over a 30 year career, probably the favorite posting that I had. And the country and the people were a lot to do with that.
Ashley 35:48
That's amazing that you mentioned that, especially arriving after Cyclone August that, you know, this country was still one of your favorite postings, because during Cyclone Nargis, I remember going to taking a flight to New York City to protest with some of the monks in front of the UN building because the government wasn't allowing any aid into the country. And I think like over 100,000 people had died because of the storm. So were you a part of the repairs and redevelopment of any parts of Newmar. That time?
Brey Sloan 36:21
I wish not my predecessor was instrumental in working between the US military and the government to get us military supplies relief supplies in. So there was actually US military planes that landed in Yangon, with relief supplies. I don't know if a lot of people know that. So he was, he was the one who the main player in that. And it was, it was a great experience for him as well, just to be able to actually make use of your position and bring relief supplies in it wasn't a huge amount, but be able to do anything at all with the US military to aid in the rebuild and reconstitution phase of the post naugus. I think it's pretty, pretty, pretty neat. And he was very proud of being able to do that.
Ashley 37:20
Yeah, yeah, I didn't know about that. I'm happy to hear that there was some aid lead in. And really incredible to that you were able to travel about the country during the the rest of your years there. I wonder if you have any particular memory or an instance that stands out to you?
Brey Sloan 37:40
Well, I've very much enjoyed going up to Meucci. Now, we went up there twice. And the first time we went up there, it was not as pleasant for me as the second time we went up there. And I'll explain that I was the first and to date the only defense attache, who was a female, there posted in Myanmar. And when we first were in contact with the country about you know, arranging our visas and all of that information, they were very suspicious about why the US was sending a female defense attache, and they were sure that there was some complicated, intricate plot behind the whole thing. The ambassador, not the ambassador, the US removed its ambassador after 1988 because of the the mowing down of all the protesters in that whole disaster. So the US took its ambassador out, and the previous three Sharjah fair, which is what you call someone who's in charge of the embassy when there's no Ambassador had been female. And so the hunter had gotten the idea that the US was going to send female charges the fair because Einstein said she was under house arrest and we were poking them in the eye about it. Well, our charge a that was supposed to arrive a month after I did was a male and so then they decided that the US had made this switch over to send a female defense attache and a male shochet for some reason. And it was just comical because our government is never works that way. And you know, the idea that there's some some plan to make a political statement through various and sundry personnel actions in different areas was was pretty amusing that they didn't know how to handle me. And so they ended up bending over backwards too far. Often, trying to make me feel welcome. And one of the times when we were up in Messina I got confronted with the northern army guys who did not absolutely did not feel that I was well Come there. And so we had a big welcome thing. And they put me at the wives table. And my husband was with all the caches. And I went over to our liaison, and I said, I'm sure you all hit Miss made a mistake. I am supposed to be with the FSH. And the young major that I was dealing with in the Intelligence Corps, he was pretty sharp, he understood right away that this was not a good thing. So he Oh, no, no, it's just a mistake, we'll fix this. And so he goes over to a table to tell them that I am going to be sitting with them. And this carnal from one of the regiments got up and just stormed out after yelling at him for a few minutes, because I was obviously not welcome there. And so then, I mean, it was, I'd been there about five months. And that was really kind of a slap in the face. So I was I was pretty, pretty irritated by that whole thing. Fast forward a few years later, I'm now the Dean of the cache core, and we get up there, and there is absolutely nothing like that occurring. they'd gotten accustomed to me, and I guess, figured out that I wasn't on some super secret mission. And so they just treated me They treated me very well. And both times once we got away from the military base and out into the city, it was never a problem. But it was just a market change in how the military treated me over the course of that timeframe. Mm hmm.
Ashley 41:31
Well, that's pretty, pretty incredible.
Brey Sloan 41:36
It was fun. We did get, you know, we were able to travel on places that most people aren't allowed to travel to, but there were, there were plenty of restrictions. And so we had to balance trying to go to different places, with how much trouble that might cause if we actually did it, honestly. I was kind of public enemy number one to the Burmese military. Because first of all, the relations with the US were hadn't been good for decades at that point. And so having having a female, US person in charge of the attache Corps was a little bit difficult for them. And we used to get followed all the time. Our house telephones were we knew they were listening and everything could you could hear them. There was a there was a lot of surveillance activity, which can be stifling unless you have an odd sense of humor like I do, in which case, I just thought it was pretty funny most of the time, but it was it was just a difference in how the government would handle us and be and how regular folks would interact with us. And so like I said, it's a very strong dichotomy between the Burmese people and the Myanmar military government.
Ashley 43:07
Yeah, it sounds like your your experience there was very unique in the sense that, you know, not many people were doing what you were doing. And on top of that, you had the military kind of looming over you so
Brey Sloan 43:22
honestly, it was it was a lot of fun and, and the surveillance was those poor folks, they were kind of fun to play with. We went up to pa one time, and most tourists don't go to pa it's not really a big tourist center. And you go from pa you can travel directly eastward and get back over to Naypyidaw or across the mountains. And so we went up there and immediately were picked up by the security services because, you know, we had government plates and a government vehicle. And we went to our hotel checked in, and later on, we went to dinner, it was just me and my driver. And so we went to dinner, and we had our dinner and there were these couple of guys that were open the back of the restaurant watching. And when we left, we were walking out to the car and I told my driver that I was going to tell him very loudly in the parking lot when we got back to the hotel that we were leaving at eight o'clock, but really we were going to leave at seven o'clock. And so he nodded and we got back to the hotel parking lot. And I sternly told him that we were leaving at eight o'clock and not to be late this time, because otherwise he would be fired. And he Yes, yes, yes. And so the next morning we hopped in the car and left at 7am and they didn't show up until probably a quarter tail and of course we were long gone. And so like I said fun for me, those four guys probably got fired. But I told my driver later on I said, you know we can do this one time and everything was like a learning experience for them, you know, one time and they figured out how to counteract that. So there was a lot of a lot of that. It was is fun in many ways. But because I had I had diplomatic immunity. I knew that unless I really stepped in it, they weren't going to do anything to me. I did. I was concerned about my drivers, they were both local nationals. And so I was very careful not to put my driver into a position where he might get in trouble, because he's not, of course covered by anything like that. But having diplomatic immunity, it does. does give you a little bit of freedom.
Ashley 45:34
Right, right. Yeah. Earlier, you mentioned this dichotomy between the military and the people in Myanmar, can you share a little bit more about the people in Myanmar and what you observed?
45:49
I,
Brey Sloan 45:51
when, when you're assigned in a position like this, a lot of your contracts that you have are at higher level governmental positions. And so those folks act like the government knows everything that they're saying to you, and they have to be very careful. And they do have to be very careful. So you would never really get the feeling that they were letting you completely in, there was always a little bit of a barrier. They just had to protect themselves. And that's completely understandable. But when you go out to a golf course, and the people that are at the golf course, working the the girls who are the caddies and things, they're not government employees, they're just regular people. And while they're a little shy and a little worried, because especially if you know, if you're an American, then sometimes people come to question you about what you're talking about, once they get comfortable with you, then they let you in. And I don't think there's a more generous and kind nation of people than the people of BMR. And they, it may be from, you know, long, long history of difficulties, but it's just some of the most wonderful people I know. Mm hmm.
Ashley 47:17
Yeah, so it sounds like you You felt comfortable around them and welcomed and
Brey Sloan 47:22
well, very welcomed. I think to a large degree at the time I spoke Burmese language, relatively well not going to say really well, but relatively well. And show when you're out traveling and you meet people, and you're an obvious foreigner, but you've taken the time to try and learn their language. People do appreciate that a lot. And so I think, in a lot of ways, just that ability, made it easier for me to, to get in quicker with with with local folks. We traveled out to sit way, one time, and it was far enough away from Yangon. And a place that American tourists at least didn't go very often weren't usually allowed to go. And so we were certainly an RV. But we were welcomed warmly. And it's just, you know, once once you get to start talking with folks, and they'll tell you some of their story and about their families. They're just, they're just wonderful, wonderful people. Hmm,
Ashley 48:37
I wonder how your time there has impacted your life now.
Brey Sloan 48:43
Some of it is from the friends that I made while I was there, the people always make your time in a place what it is. And I have great friends who are still there. And Yangon, I have great friends who were assigned there from other countries at the same time. So I have friends all over the world. And our common link is our time in Myanmar. And just being part of the history being part of the the constitutional referendum, or just after that and the Aung San Su Shi release, and David get off nonsense, which got on Santucci, 18 more months of house arrest, and then the government turning over and the election and traveling around and seeing the excitement and the joy of the election time. That's indelible. It makes you feel your part of history and that you're actually we're you know involved in supporting something really important. So I take a lot of pride with me in my time from Myanmar and very warm and cherish memories and of course concern for you know, the friends and the people that are still there and I'm no longer there. And wonder
Ashley 50:01
if you got a chance to meet Aung San su t while you were there.
Brey Sloan 50:06
I did actually I met her twice. The first time. It was an official meeting. And so our sharpei d'affaires was the lead of the meeting. And my role was pretty much just to go in and, and answer any questions that the military might be connected with and take notes and things like that. So I wasn't talking directly to her. But he was asking her questions, and they were having a discussion. And she is very charismatic. You can just sense her presence. And so when we came out of the meeting, I turned to one of the other folks that was there, I said, I can see why the generals are afraid of her. Because if they let her get out and interact with people, they are going to be very drawn to her. She's just she's charismatic is is the only word I have for it. She's extremely charismatic. The second time I met her was right after she was released. And she came over to a party at the chargee d'affaires residents to thank primarily the local national employees of the US Embassy. It's a very dangerous job to have. And so she wanted to thank them for their support in the US for its support of her while she was under house arrest. And she met my and that time, we did talk a little bit more, and my daughter and son were there. And my daughter, at the time was a college student down in Australia. And um, Santucci was wanting to kind of connect with younger people more for how to how to reach the younger ones politically. And so she asked my daughter if she had contact information so she could ask, ask her some questions. And we did I didn't even have a business card and my daughter didn't have anything she ends up writing her name and phone number on a cocktail napkin from the US Embassy. Shara j d'affaires. So, that was slightly embarrassing, but she's she's, she's wonderful, in a lot of ways, and very, very much a strong personality. And it's easy to see why the generals want to keep her under control. I think they recognize that she has something that they don't have. And that's just this presence that that people are drawn to.
Ashley 52:35
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
Brey Sloan 52:38
Welcome, not to my like the cocktail napkin bit. My poor daughter is highly embarrassed about the whole thing to this day, right? Yeah, that
Ashley 52:45
was a very momentous time when Aung San su T was released. And again, here we are, you know, history repeating itself. Have you been doing with the recent events in Miramar?
Brey Sloan 52:57
You know, it's it's so frustrating to she, it feels like all the progress that that we made and everything that everybody was working for. Just has been not necessarily thrown out the window, but certainly
53:16
not
Brey Sloan 53:18
it. It's of course not good. It's very sad to see the deaths that are happening from people peacefully protesting the military just reacting in such a harsh and unyielding way. There were, you know, I've met men online. I've met a lot of these guys. And yeah, I mean, they're not your cuddly grandpa types. But you know, I'm perhaps just naive, but you kind of hope that when you've all gone through this evolution together of ending the military rule and releasing Aung San su ci and having the election and then having another election, and then having another election, you know, to have a fight. It's like having the rug pulled out from under you to see all you know, the House of Cards just come tumbling down. And I worry about people are worried about the future. Honestly.
Ashley 54:25
Yeah, you're the first person that I've met and maybe the purse purse, the only person that I'll ever meet that has met me online. So I'm curious to ask you, you know, what do you think his motives are? Any thoughts on that?
Brey Sloan 54:40
I think it's it's just power. And, you know, you shot the same sort of thing with lunch way, and just inability to release or let go and that's why it was such a big deal when they actually did the first election. And we were kind of surprised that thens way, even though he may have been, you know, behind the scenes doing the puppet master thing, which is most likely, just the fact that he was no longer the, you know, the, the head of government, what a pretty big shift and men on line when I met him, and you gotta have to realize this was back in, you know, nine years ago. He was brand new in that position. And I don't think anybody really knew where they were going at that point. It was, I mean, yes, they had a plan, but I don't think their plan was let's do this for nine years and then take over again, I think that the situation is very similar to the original election that got Aung San su ci thrown into house arrest, the generals believed their propaganda. And were very surprised when the country's vote turned out not to be supportive of them. And I think there's an element of panic involved. And the realization that the if the if the people in the country don't want them in charge than the only way they can be in charge is to just take charge. And you also have to remember that these guys in the military have been told by the moment they've gone to the defense services Academy or enlisted, that they are the protectors, they are the only ones that have enabled Bama to be able to come through all of all of the crises that it's had. So the folks who are in charge, they've had decades of believing that if it weren't for the military, the country would have been destroyed, overrun, what have you long ago, and it's very difficult to turn that vision of yourself as the good guy into recognizing that maybe you're not the good guy, that's a difficult psychological move to make. And so I think they're not really interested in in, in looking at themselves, they're interested in maintaining their power. And they now know that the only way they can do that is through intimidation, and through all the violence that we've been sharing.
Ashley 57:30
Right. So it sounds like you're saying that they actually believe some of these generals actually believe that what they're doing is the right thing, and therefore their acts of violence are justified. Is that right?
Brey Sloan 57:42
I am quite sure that some of them believe that they are doing the best thing possible for the country. Wow.
Ashley 57:51
Yeah, that explains a lot. So having seen what's happening in Jamar now, what are your thoughts, visions of what could happen? moving forward?
Brey Sloan 58:06
This is this is going to be a very difficult, difficult thing to get through. I did like what Barack Obama said, Not that long again. There were a lot of people with a lot of courage that are standing up to what's going on and pointing out what is wrong and protesting for what is right. And this isn't something that's going to get fixed very quickly. And what Obama said was, you have to be strategic in your courage. So not just plan for the now or act in the now but plan for the future so that you can still act in the future. A friend of mine very good friend of mine, who's a political expert, is an Australian guy, he just put out a thing saying if you split the generals away from the rest of the military, we may have a chance. And I tend to agree with that the where you had the problem with the mindset is primarily with the officer corps. You don't have it as much with the enlisted. They are they do grow up in that system. And they they're the main ones on the ground, but they are definitely under this very strong control of the officer corps. And the officer corps is very much steeped in the We are the protectors. We are the the guys in white hat so to speak. So I don't know if there's a way to split the generals from the enlisted but I do think there's two they're not the same. They don't have the same viewpoint.
Ashley 59:54
Yeah, it sounds like the the soldiers beneath the generals are just operating under their orders.
Brey Sloan 1:00:02
They are I'm sure there's you know, there's got to be a spectrum of, of behavior. So there are going to be those who think that this is all fine and dandy and there are going to be those who are really very upset and appalled about what is happening. But they're not going to necessarily be in a position to do much of anything about it. And that's, that's the problem, unless enough of them do something, or refuse to do something. It's got to be a huge number for that to sink in, or to make a difference to what the top military guys are doing. So
Ashley 1:00:45
whether they can or not, I'm not sure. Thank you for that insight, Bray.
Brey Sloan 1:00:49
So you may have just the military as a whole having problems, internal dissension. There's another player that's also important in this and may be even more important. And that's the role of the monks. The monks have always been very important in how how things happen in yanmar. During Nargis, the monks were the ones that did the vast majority of relief when I was giving, I brought school supplies and food and stuff down to one of the hard hit areas in the Delta. And I took it to a monastery because that's the only way I knew it was actually going to get get to where it needed to get to. There are some monks at the top levels that are intertwined with the military, to the point where they will support anything that the generals do. But there's a lot of monks that are probably quite appalled and very angry about what is going on. And that's a movement that if that can be tapped into, without causing the military to overreact against them. I think that would that would be of great benefit. The military has to be very, very careful with how they deal with a monk's. They may, if they overreact, it'll be like kicking a hornet's nest, then you will get people very, very enraged, not just angry and protesting, but absolutely enraged. And so I think the military has to be careful. Honestly, I haven't heard that much about monks speaking out. And it's probably just because there's so little information that I'm able to take get about what's going on on the ground in there. I'm sure there are folks doing it. But it would be interesting to me to know what the monks are doing in this whole affair.
Ashley 1:02:45
Right? Yeah, I have seen some images of monks protesting. And there's been a few letters of relatively well known monks, you know, taking a stand against the military. However, there are still other monks that are quite well known and respected, that have not spoken out.
Brey Sloan 1:03:07
It's difficult, it's I mean, you, especially if you're, you know, extremely well known, you're putting yourself right out in the middle of everything. And so some may feel they have a better opportunity of influencing things from behind the scenes, others may feel that it's time to jump in with both feet, I don't know. And that's kind of how everybody is, you're going to have people who wish they could, you know, be the one standing out in front, but they're doing all that they can more behind the scenes. So you can't really say well, if you're not getting beat up, you're not doing it. Right.
Ashley 1:03:43
Right.
Brey Sloan 1:03:43
There's a lot of people that are that are doing a lot of things, having to hide people, just all this stuff that's going on over there. Right now. There's a lot of a lot of things that people are doing and being very brave about all of it.
Ashley 1:03:58
Right? Yeah, there's people having to relocate every night just to stay safe.
Brey Sloan 1:04:04
It's crazy. The reports of you know, the police just coming into your house and doing whatever they want to and pulling people out and throwing them into who knows where it's just it's it's awful. It's just awful. Right?
Ashley 1:04:21
Yeah, they're really living in a state of terror right now. And you know, honestly, it will impact the the monks as well down the road. The longer this goes on, everybody in the country will be impacted by it, not just the lay people. Oh, yeah,
1:04:37
I agree.
Ashley 1:04:39
Yeah, so with that said, Do you have any words of encouragement for the people in your ma right now?
Brey Sloan 1:04:49
I wish I wish I could. I wish I could solve the problems I would say throughout everything. Try and stay as strong as you can know that there are people all over the world who support you, and wish they could do more. But also understand the realities of what is possible and what is not likely to happen. In the end, you know, I can only hope and pray along with everyone else who, who loves the country that you'll get through it. And things will improve. But it's a long want to be a long road, this is not going to happen. It's not going to be fixed overnight. There are people trying to help. And just remember that there are people that no the misery that you're going through and are earnestly wishing for everything to, to to be resolved.
Ashley 1:06:08
Do you see any other roles that the US could play at a time like this?
Brey Sloan 1:06:14
I think the US is pretty much limited to what they can do diplomatically and economically, military is probably not going to that would be very, that would be a difficult sort of a thing. But financially, we do have some leverage. diplomatically. We have leveraged and I've loved watching all of the the Myanmar government officials who refuse to be called back home and support the CDM. So that's, that's been encouraging to watch. But it's this is difficult. And it's because not not just us in isolation. But looking at the region. You have ossian and its lack of reaction you have China and what it is doing of what it will allow. China isn't just going to sit back and say, Yep, us Come on in and you know, send lots of troops. That's, that's a big problem. That's a geostrategic problem. So I don't think that it's going to be possible for the military to get involved the US military to get involved in this, we're going to have to do this another way. But there are other ways that the US can put pressure to, to hopefully change things. Right. I know a lot of people wish that the US would just, you know, send divisions over and, and, and make the make the generals stop and bring peace to everybody. But it's, you know, I hate to burst the bubble. But that's just an extremely unlikely scenario,
Ashley 1:08:06
having been in EMR for three to four years between 2008 and 2011, or 12. Does it at all surprise you the the way the protests are going right now?
Brey Sloan 1:08:17
No, actually, it doesn't surprise me. In addition to political changes that were going on, there's a lot of societal changes that went on at the same time. When we first arrived. For example, there was no internet at the residents at my house. And they were just starting to offer internet. But the startup cost was extremely high. It was like, over $2,000 to have internet installed in your home. Obviously, the government didn't want everybody having internet access. And we would go back and forth as the internet kind of grew. In the general populace. There would be sites that you couldn't get to. One of them which made me laugh was I was doing triathlons at the time and I was trying to sign up for this triathlon. And it told me it was a restricted site because it was political. And just like, I was just Politico, okay, fine. And so that there was always you know, the government having a control over social media in even though it was kind of in its infancy at that point. They would, they would turn off the internet. And then they would say that, you know, there was an underwater cable that needed to be repaired, but they turn the internet off right before the elections in 2011. Which really surprised nobody, but they didn't want people having access to information into the outside world. So that was that was back in 2011. bring that forward nine years people have got accustomed to being able to interact with each other and to get information from outside. Get the country much more easily not 100%, but much more easily. And I think now people they have, they have a comparison that they can make between what's going on in their country and what's going on in the outside world that they didn't necessarily have before. So people can see that what's happening in Myanmar right now is not the way things happen in all countries, and so that gives them an additional fuel, so to speak. Just having just having that bit of knowledge and information that they didn't have before, they're a much more educated and socially aware group. And so I think that's good. That's, that's a benefit for them. Anytime you have more information is good, but the access, they know what they have had. And now it's getting turned off again, and the power is getting turned off. And they're losing more than they were losing, say back in, you know, 1988, when there wasn't that sort of thing that was available. And so what they're losing is much more obvious to them now. And I think, even though, you know, they've always fought hard. The ones who are protesting have always been courageous and brave. But I think now, they might be just a little matter, because, in addition to everything that they're facing, the change from where they have been over the past 10 years is very dramatic. And they don't want to lose that. And so I think they've just got that extra little edge that they hadn't had before. And that's a good thing. Because I think the leadership is going to learn that once people have something, it's much more difficult to take that away than to never give it to them in the first place. And so I think they will fight. More beautiful point, thank you not not just for the change, but to get things back the way they want them to be that they know they have been the progress that they had made. Yeah, I
Ashley 1:12:18
hadn't thought of that before. That's a really great point. Do you have any last words break before we end?
Brey Sloan 1:12:33
I'd like to finish just by saying that Myanmar is an amazing country with amazing people going through a very hard time right now. But I'm convinced in my heart that they will be able to get through this and get past this. And things will be better because the people are strong and the people are good. And, you know,
1:12:59
whatever,
Brey Sloan 1:13:00
whatever good thoughts I can send. I'm sure Myanmar will come out of this. Okay, I don't know how long it will take. But it'll get there because the people deserve it to be better.
Host 1:13:17
One of the most tragic aspects of the current crisis in Myanmar, is how isolated Burmese protesters feel. And in fact, our this has been compounded by bank closures and as a result, ordinary wire transfers are not possible. Thankfully, through a trusted local network, we're able to ensure that all donations successfully reached their intended target. So if you found yourself moved by today's discussion and want to do what you can to help, please consider giving to our fund, which is 100% directed towards supporting the movement. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are resisting the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form, currency or transfer method. every cent goes immediately and directly to funding those local communities who need it most. Donations go to support such causes as the civil disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, and the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies. Or if you prefer, you can earmark your donation to go directly to the guests you just heard on today's show. In order to facilitate this donation work, we have registered a new nonprofit called better Burma for this express purpose. Any donation you give on our Insight Myanmar website is now directed to this fund. Alternatively, you can visit our new better Burma website, which is better Burma one word.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me slash better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and cash simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to those respective accounts, or email us at info at better burma.org. In all cases, that's better Burma. One word, spelled b e t t e r, bu r Ma. If you would like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration. Hello, Evie, thank
Ashley 1:15:31
you so much for joining us. Can you tell me a little bit about yourself? who you are, where you're calling from? What your connection is to Myanmar. And what did you do there?
Evie 1:15:47
Okay, my name is Avi, and I am living in Austria in Vienna. And since 1994, I've been going to Myanmar since 1994. The reason why I went to Myanmar is because of meditation. I am doing the personal meditation. And I started with quanti. And then I went on to several other monasteries. And then in the end I finally landed with Sri amin shadow Sri amin shadow gmsc because I was happy or lucky said I could still meet shall g of, of Sri Amin. For from nine from 2000 to 2002. I was meeting and he was still alive for two years I was there. And since then, every year, I would go to Sri amin for meditation because I found my teacher there.
Ashley 1:16:57
Thank you. And can you share a story or an anecdote about your time in Jamar?
Evie 1:17:03
I can? Well, I can tell you my impressions in short, my impressions of my impression the first and still it is there, it is still my impression whenever I go to Myanmar, or whenever I am in Myanmar, or in the streets of young bone. For me just like a fairy tale. It's like a fairy tale. It's like out of a storybook, which I know from my childhood with them, I can remember the pictures and the pictures in my fairy tale books. Take the look exactly like many, many sites in Myanmar. So that was me that is still very, very fascinating. And what else to say. And then the other thing what I learned myself is to be much more generous than I was before. The generosity the time, the way Myanmar people are generous is for us Westerners. We don't know this kind. Because he gets a services sort of first and then we pay. But we have to I have to I had to learn and nobody told me that I have to give Dan, you know that I should give Tanner landsteiner I didn't know it took me only as a search here. I realized hey, no, I should not pay in the end. But I should give Dan and Dan a T and Tatianna there. Okay, so then I knew the system, which made me happy. So, so generosity was something which I really loved. And second, what I learned from that culture is this. How to see not complaining. I like to complain, but me and my people, they don't complain. They have such a hard life and they don't complain. So this too, I I really have learned a part from the person apart from public persona and from my daily impressions there. Yeah, so these are the two main things which I learned from the people. I must say as a Westerner. It is not easy to be confronted with this poverty. Which I don't know which makes me feel over a little bear because I am in a monastery and I have wonderful food. And then I think my God. Yeah, so many people don't have that much. So this is one thing which which, which, which really does make me somehow uncomfortable. Yeah. But as I said, it is non complaining. And when I look in some faces or in many faces of people, and especially of children, then I'm so over I am because I see so much innocent there. I look into the eyes, and they are so innocent and so bright. And really that I was saying, Wow, this is so incredible. This is so incredible how they cope with what is really. So my impression she is Oh, thank you for sharing that.
Ashley 1:20:55
Do you have any particular memory that you'd like to share with us?
Evie 1:20:59
Yeah, I do have when I was out drive, so villages also young Boone, or wherever they are people. It's overwhelming for me to see how much life There is. There is life coming out from every gap of a house. It's everywhere. So much life. So so so many. There's so much life. Maybe I should not compare further ado. When I look where I am, I'm in Vienna houses which country and Vienna is a very clean city. And everything is very orderly. Everything is managed perfectly well. Everything functions, everything. And yeah, but this type of life which comes out as it is in Myanmar, this from everywhere. This we don't have so even this is a big city where I live. Myanmar is much more of a city to me than Vienna. It's so strange. Yes, that is also a big impression.
Ashley 1:22:26
Yeah, so it's a pretty lively city. So
Evie 1:22:31
I am meditating since a long time and I had a few teachers. But I, my present teacher, I have him nearly no for now for 20 years. Who is what is Ania and artesania in myself, different from the other repasser teachers I had. The other teachers have very strict and very careful about noble silence and I don't know what and being very slow in the movement, like Chinese shadow. And so and I tried to follow that, but it was really very hard. Not only for me, I guess for everybody. Yeah, and I, I did it, but I couldn't see I had no understanding. I know understanding what the highs and I could see that my mind is very tense and everything the body everything went to very tense. It was really a big fight for many, many years for me and it was not the pleasure at all. It was just a big struggle. And then I came to to the Sania actually amin and Otis Ania has a complete different teaching method. And he said, first of all, he said to me, why are you so tense? Relax, you must Relax. Relax is very, very important. If your mind is tense, your body is tense. How can you understand anything? Right? And, yeah, okay, so I tried to relax and I try to relax but because I had this years of, you know, looking and moving slowly and labeling, so it was really difficult for me to understand what he meant by relax. So finally I somehow COVID and I relax a little more. And he said, relax, just relax. Relax. Eggs, relax, don't expect anything. And then you said something, which is a very important, very important message she said to following. He said, when you meditate, you don't think that this is right or this is wrong how I do. As long as you are interested in meditation, as long as you are interested, that is what counts. The interest is what counts. Yeah, and that, you know, and all this what he told me that made me more and more relaxed. And then slowly, understandings were coming. And I remember when I had the first retreat with shadow Sania, I remember that I had sort of how little tiny, tiny little insects like little stars coming to us, like, like, like click stars, so Wow. And so you know, like this. And then that settled down. And then of course, I also struggle with my meditation and understanding. And so it's a long way. But yeah, I myself cannot judge so much. How much I changed, but I do think that I have my understanding of meditation has, has absolutely changed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I hate the N factor, not too, too much of a form of meditation. But during the day, I really tried to remember mindfulness, I try to remember Sati. And then I, I go on that check, a check what is in the mind? And I, I feel, you know, it's a matter of feeling. It's a matter of of P. of living. In fact, it's a matter of living in the moment. It's how should I say? Maybe it's not, it's being aware. But it's not. It's not the case of watching. It's just being aware that feeling is happening, that is sinking is happening, that seeing is happening, that this Melling is happening, that the hearing is happening, that a touching is happening. It's a feeling and just being aware of that. It sounds very easy, but especially a scene even from information is more difficult. It's not it's not it takes long. I mean, for me, it takes a long time. Others are more faster than me, but it's okay. So, yes, so, yes, and I want to see and when I am in this in a feeling and being aware of that feeling. So really, really, so there is no more in the mind. of Yeah, or very, very little. Then there is this incredible feeling of being alive is so incredible. It's really it's a feeling of being alive and everything else before it's not being alive. But of course, I fall back into the old patterns. Yes, Yes, I do. But yeah, yeah, at least I have some understanding, some understanding of what it means. What it means to live and to be free, have more fun little time, even if it's just for five minutes or so. It's just a feeling. And this feeling is also I mean, this is my personal understanding. This is not what my teacher told me. But it has to come very, very clear. That everything we are all one he everything. Yeah, all we are not a park. Yeah, this is one, one system of one nature. What nature is, is I can mold me call it nature, that we are just part of nature, just like a bubble. It's like you're babbling, and then we disappear and then comes up another babble. And so but it's all one. So, yeah, so far.
Jasmine 1:29:40
Thank you so much for that. And so what would you say is the role that Myanmar has played in
Ashley 1:29:48
your life over the last 25
Angie 1:29:50
plus years that you've been going
1:29:52
to smoking? How has it affected you?
Evie 1:29:57
Yeah. When I go to me and Miko for meditation, this is the very first thing what I do. And when I am indeed in the monastery, I regard it as a training camp for for your training camp for Sati for mindfulness. So when I'm not in Myanmar every year I go down usually and that makes it easier for me during the year to remember Sati you know, and to be in touch to be in touch with see Miss inside to see with Miss life to to be in touch his life. In my words, you know what I mean? Yeah, this is this is a very big thing. Yes.
Ashley 1:31:03
Thank you. All right. And do you have any words of encouragement for the people in Myanmar right now with what their experience
Evie 1:31:12
as a first of all ms tell the people of Myanmar that I am so impressed, so impressed that I find no words, I'm so impressed by their determination and by the understanding that they have no choice but to bow their head, there is no choice left, but to go it is there is no choice. So, and, and the young people, the young people, usually which may not have such understanding, but this they understand so very, very well and deeply that you all go but of course all the other people too. And this is one thing which impresses me tremendously. Really, I have no words to describe this. And the second thing, also, how they organize because from my experience, the organist, there are many things in Myanmar, which I, which I absolutely do not understand all the logic behind or whatever. But in this case, how is CDM dangerous civil disobedience movement? They they organize themselves, they are so creative. So creative, so so it's In fact, it's fantastic. So I do what I can, yeah, overseas, the only thing I can do is making noise. Yeah, what can I do? Yeah, but the only thing I can do is making noise. And he said, I tried to do I try from from from what I can. So I know that and I'm expressing myself on Facebook here. And I know should the military mean but I really hope not. And sure I will not be allowed to enter Myanmar. No. But for the people doing fantastic and I am really sure that if they can persevere if they can go on I am so sure that they will win. How can the military people practice disobedience? This is impossible. And also I think this is such an intelligent move you know to make this this this sort of other government says the shadow government you know what, and that that this minister I don't know his name but uh, but his minutes his a minute he was he is a minister and on time so cheap, I think for sports and and people but I don't know his name now. And where he said that the civil servants should not go to their offices should not and and just put their name on the list, if the joins a CGM. Yeah, and just again, this was so fantastic. And I'm going to I'm going out tomorrow today it's too late for me. But tomorrow I will I will make comments to Shri Lang gala Geylang to see can play. I will make notes to what he he sent he sending it The form the melody, and I will add a comment on that. But this is two more. So for me, me and my people nearly so terribly, really, really very, very impressed by their better perseverance by their intelligence and by their creativity. And by their solidarity, really. So I cannot say more. And I read all my heart I stand behind. So my little self, and I praise my son for them, and I pray for them at all. In fact, every day, I say, Please, yeah.
Ashley 1:35:45
Thank you so much for sharing up. Do you have any final words that you'd like to share?
Evie 1:35:51
Yeah. Of course, people should not forget Sati. And people and V Westerners, I can see now before the western US, we Westerners should make as much noise as we can. Really as much noise as we can. And to everything, what we can think of we can do to support me and my people. Beautiful.
Ashley 1:36:17
Well, thank you so much for making noise on Facebook, and encouraging others to get involved as well.
Evie 1:36:24
Thank you.
Host 1:37:12
All right, I'm joined here by a number of members from the team of the global movement for Myanmar democracy. This is the first time we've been able to welcome so many voices at once on single podcast. So it's quite exciting to be able to check in with a number of people at the same time. And we're actually collaborating with them for an event that will be happening very soon. We'll be talking about a bit on this episode. But before we do that, we just want to learn a little bit about this organization, who they are and what they do, just get a general introduction. So Sandra, could you kick us off by talking a little bit about what this organization is? Yeah. Hi, everyone.
Sandra 1:37:52
My name is Sandra, I'm one of the execs and co founders of the global good for me and my democracy, which we'll call a GM for the for short, too. So GM form D was founded by myself and two other my co founders, Jen, Jen and Frank who are on the podcast today. In response to the military coup, to coordinate international action to support them or democracy, GM form D started off as a private Facebook group, we wanted to bring together these youth activists that were popping up on the social media space and provide them a platform to collaborate. And from there, we realized that Facebook wasn't the best place to actually collaborate over projects. And we made a slack space is a new platform where you can better collaborate on projects. And from there realize that there wasn't a platform for a use blood grassroots network. So that's what g importante serves as today. We have a core team of about 40 individuals from all across the world. And our goal is to raise awareness and raise noise about what's happening in Myanmar, and empowering these new youth activists and organizers to do so. So we're trying to achieve this through a couple of lenses. The first is our global campaigns. This is our way of connecting with the new Mr. diaspora friends in Myanmar and the broader international community about how what's happening in Myanmar is a global issue. And it can affect someone even if they may not have a relativity Mr. Or maybe a VMware doesn't grow cells. And beyond that, we have a couple of other projects in wellness as well. The see that the coup in Myanmar is affecting the mental health and well being of not only those on the ground, but also those of the Diaspora and with mental health being so stigmatized, especially among Asian Pacific Islander communities. We wanted to make sure that in the work that we do, we are mindful Have burnouts and grieving and giving people the space and resources to cope. And so, from our global campaigns and our wellness committees, we have a wonderful team with skill sets across storytelling, fundraising, data science, advocacy. And we have members that are from all across the world, young and old, different ethnicities. But we really do take pride in how we are a youth led organization and using our savviness, with social media, media spaces and mass organizing to accomplish our missions.
Host 1:40:39
Yeah, that's great. And it also reminds me of what's happening in Myanmar how this came about as something that no one really expected or even those that expected it might not have thought it would really happen. And then everyone in the country as we've been seeing, have had to respond in ways that were completely unpredicted and just do what they can to serve the greater moment. And so it sounds like what you guys are doing outside of Myanmar is in that same spirit that you're coming together with whoever you were before February 1, whatever it is, you were involved in whatever life obligations, other things you have going on that you are setting up a similar kind of structure and enthusiasm and work effort to work towards this goal and support those that are in the country as you are outside and kind of following in that same spirit. So, you know, that's, that's really exciting. And there's so many things that you're doing, there's so many committees and so many activities and initiatives. And this is definitely something that we'll have later episodes on exploring exactly all the different things that you are doing, and just letting people know that are concerned about this issue, how where they can go to learn more to be involved, because they're certainly there's certainly a lot for everyone to do. And one of the things I've been saying to people that when they hear about this, and they say, Well, I, you know, I feel helpless, or I feel guilty, or I'm not there and okay that that's a fine feeling to have for a couple of weeks when the shock hits you. But once you get over that there's there's really no need to feel guilty or helpless about anything, there's a lot that all of us can do, given our given whoever we are what we have to offer, whatever our limitations are. And it's just a question of finding what those things are and how we can be involved, then, you know, this is this is an open book that's still being written. And everything that we're doing has an effect on how that story is going just as what you guys are all doing.
Sandra 1:42:26
Exactly. That's the mission of G importante is to empower the average individual who's at their home and feeling like they can't do anything intervene, play, contribute and introducing them to a community and network that can help mentor their skill sets and finding meaningful ways to contribute to what's happening on the ground. And so we have a couple of members of geo forum D are our colleagues, as we call them over committees, who have been doing this important role of not only contributing their skill sets, but also mentoring and providing an avenue for individuals across the world to come together and collaborate on meaningful projects.
Host 1:43:04
Yeah, and that's great that you're fitting in so many different parts of what's going on, you know, you mentioned the mental health part where you're you're looking at the whole person and everything every way that people are being affected by it. And one of those avenues that we're going to talk to you a bit here is this idea of fundraising. Can you just tell me generally like, what is your fundraising then like, what is it? How has that been going in the last couple of months?
Jasmine 1:43:28
Oh, so we I think we have a pretty good progress so far. We raise about 11,000 on in a month. So and we we have reached I think, half of our goals so far.
Host 1:43:44
Right? And when you are able to get the funds into me and more, what generally are you supporting at this time?
Jasmine 1:43:50
So as I mentioned, we are supporting the medical supplies and services. So we actually support to buy the medical supplies. And so, but yeah, I think Ashley can actually talk more in details like, like where exactly on there. They're helping,
Ashley 1:44:15
right so of the $11,000 that we've been able to, to receive from donors, we've been able to distribute at least half of that to doctors at the Myanmar Thai border, as well as some of the doctors and young own, which was hard, hit the hardest by the military. So some of those funds are being used for, you know, emergency response kits, chest tube, surgical blades, pp, medications. And so we hope to use the rest of the funds for other groups that are also really in need right now that are in Myanmar and also the border. And we're really grateful for all the donors that have contributed so far. And we really hope to keep the fundraiser going, which is why we're doing this art auction.
Sandra 1:45:13
Thank you so much for providing some perspective about what geo 4d is doing on the fundraising. And I just want to give some perspective about what fundraising looks like overall. And fundraising is so important to support those on the ground, because it is what is moving and keeping the civil disobedience movement alive in Myanmar. And so for those of you who don't know, what CDM is civil disobedience movement, it's in brief boycotts and protests by those on the ground, so that they don't support military, businesses and corporations. And that's their way of looking at the military internally. This means that there are families all across the nation that currently are not able to work, nor are getting paid to work. And that's why diversity of fundraisers are so important. It's difficult to get money onto the ground, because they have to go through private networks, as Jasmine mentioned. And when GM formed GE was thinking about how can we most meaningfully contribute to fundraising kinda goes back to our overall mission geoforum D is the new organization. And so our goal overall is to not reinvent the wheel, but to again, empower efforts that are existing and connect young individuals, or new individuals in this activist space to the efforts that are already ongoing and and well established. So when we first thought about what can we do that's most effective with fundraisers is that we saw that there are so many fundraisers out there already there GoFundMe through individual websites through different organizations. And it was hard to keep track of where to donate and how to donate. And so we started off with cutting fundraisers on our page. And through this page, we provide three different categories through which people should and can donate. Some of them are targeted towards certain ethnic groups, or IDPs refugees. other categories include supporting CDM, directly, so supporting individuals and families in their daily lives. The third is like broadly, a cost close to your heart. So whether that be providing food, whether it be healthcare media, is through these three categories that you really do need a diversity of fundraisers, and consistent amount of fundraisers. And that kind of goes into three different ways that people are fundraising now. So the first one is through one on one support where someone can sponsor an individual or family on a monthly basis and provide a certain amount of money like $100, that will last them for food and living expenses. The second is donating to a diverse network where you donate to one individual, one fundraiser, and they within their private networks disperse the funds to different ethnic groups or different areas. And then the third is kind of what the CRP h did was a Google Form method where you sign up your own email and then you put in your own amount Leo to fundraise and donates and then it goes off into this big organization. So that's what you have, for me has been working hard on to first just collect all the different organizers, in photos just out there, organize it so that people can then look at this web page and know what they're donating to.
Jasmine 1:48:42
So yeah, can you can imagine that, like $100 of your donation can actually support a family for for a month. And we're just actually amazing that I but when we think about it, like $100, we would only like last for less than a week here. But it can support people in Jamar like the whole family for for our whole mom. So yeah, we're just fantastic. So yeah, that's what I want to relay messages to potential donors and the listeners.
Host 1:49:22
Right, so we have this event that's coming up and is also timed a bit around Earth Day. So perhaps you could share a bit about how the thought process came for this and how earthday fits into this event that you have going on.
Sandra 1:49:41
So yeah, so GM for D, we strayed away from hosting our own fundraisers at first, just because we thought there were a lot of organizations dedicated towards fundraising that was doing this more effectively. And he informed me his mission was, you know, primarily about raising boys raising awareness but as we do have a component to wellness and health in mind. And we have a lot of team members who are involved in the health community. Ashley, who is our wellness colleague, she and I were looking through fundraisers that were dedicated towards health needs, you know, of course, the cost close to our heart. And we didn't really see one out there. And we have been in contact with these different distribution networks that are in contact with doctors and mental health practitioners on the grounds that we're meeting hundreds of 1000s of dollars to address the growing medical needs emergency medical needs on the ground, especially because doctors right now they're getting persecuted and targeted for even just treating a patient, which is, you know, what their duty is, and they're not even allowed to do so. And they're getting targeted for doing so. So we wanted to have a fundraiser out there so that if people found that health needs was a cause close to their heart, that's something they could donate to. So when we were thinking about, you know, creative ways to boost this fundraiser, we had this idea about art auction, because among even gm foreignkey, we have different designers are on social media, we were seeing all this beautiful artwork being created. And in the past, for some other initiatives I was doing, I did an art auction before it was a great way to raise awareness about an issue through a creative means and also a really good outlet, kind of going back to our wellness component of having the creative expression and cathartic release and releasing your artwork onto a platform that you can share with an audience and share the stories and meanings behind it.
1:51:40
So
Sandra 1:51:41
how she informed me was centering on his mission of raising awareness and finding creative ways to raise awareness and to the international community. We realized that first day was coming up on April 22. And a lot of people don't know but actually the Myanmar military. And the two itself is exacerbating climate change issues in Myanmar. And so maybe our storytelling co lead Sokka talk a little bit about that, before we go into the auction and other parts of earthday campaign.
Saw 1:52:12
Yeah, definitely. So we know that, you know, you must environment and the wildlife hasn't been in good shape for a while, because of the the military. They have been, you know profiting off of these natural resources. So I'm just gonna mentioned some topics that are really important to emphasize at the moment. So one way to coop has been affecting the environment of the Myanmar is that the the disruptions from the conflict. So for example, the Dumbledore's airstrike on the depot know, that was a really hard hit for the environment, because it not only affected the people, but also affected the environment in the wildlife, which was, you know, look over, because a lot of it was, was a really, you know, big thing, and a lot of people die from that a lot of people going through for that. So not a lot about the wildlife and the environment was mentioned. But I think that's really important that we need to emphasize. And the second thing is that the research and the conservation trainings has been terminated. As of right now. It has been really hard for the researchers to, you know, to do these things, since the coffee has happened. Because when the cocoa happened, all the universities had to go online. So not a lot of research had been done since then. And now that the coop happened, and the Internet has been cut off and shut down. And you know, because of the the forum walls that have been blocking a lot of sites. A lot of research have been stopped and a lot of fundings for the research have been stopped as well. And a lot of top scientists that are linked to the universities are also currently hiding. So these research that will restore the environment and Myanmar has been terminated, which is a really serious issue. And third in the last important issue is that these natural resources such as guessing while the forests and you know, the mining that you will receive gems, all of these industries are been heavily controlled by the military or the military linked companies. So now that the military is, you know, pretty much free roaming right now. We don't know what what they're gonna do with all of those industry, you know, and our neighboring countries, which are China, Thailand and India. They haven't sanctioned the mecca mill, which consists of a lot of these natural resource industries, companies. S o this is also one of the important issues that I think we should emphasize on on the day camping. Yeah, thank you so much for praying for the factors and just yet to further emphasize, the number of military has a history of
Sandra 1:56:02
really harming the environment for their own financial gains. And so as the coup continues, and as a military continues, especially with internet blockages and with UN and other AI, NGOs, pausing research efforts, and other climate activism efforts, we don't know how much more then it will continue to harm the diverse and vibrant biodiversity of EMR. So that's why it's so important to raise awareness that what's happening in EMR, if it continues to have very long term impacts, not only on the people but on the environment. And so this is why we really need to find creative ways to continue outreach. And maybe a lot of people don't know about these climate change issues that are caused by the military and exacerbated by the coup. And so our media and social media teams have been doing a lot of great work and reaching out to especially youth activists and using our savviness with mass organizing and mass outreach to connect with those from the international community and elevating the messages and showing how our work and support from Myanmar is also in solidarity with these other activism movements. So Angie maybe can provide some perspective on on the work that we're doing there.
Angie 1:57:25
Hi, Sandra, thank you, thank you for that. So when it comes to nowadays, a lot of people go online, and the outreach has shifted from just emailing and being in contact with media relations on a professional platform to kind of more of a casual thing that people use now. So I dove into Instagram, which at first I was kind of worried like these are private messages that are not really getting filtered the way I want it to be. But I tend to focus on youth activist in that case, because I'm pretty sure a lot of people don't give credit for younger generations nowadays, with the creativity and the passion and the motivation it comes. Because at this age, we're really trying to find what matters to us. And I thought it would be great to reach out to these youth activists, and combine efforts and let them know, this is what we're trying to provide with our campaign and our mission. And we would love to have a collaboration in solidarity with your, with your activism and how it intersects with each other. So it's been really successful. as of lately, I've been getting a lot of connections through this platform. I've even tried LinkedIn, I've even tried Twitter, which are extremely, not what I expected to use for outreach. But it's just amazing how people actually respond and the generosity of outreach. And it becomes more personal in that sense, because we're using such a personal platform as an email with info@info.gmail.com. It's nothing like that. It's like an outlook into their life and what matters to them. So yeah, I've really excited to keep doing this and see what kinds of partnerships and Collaboratory efforts can be improved on until the earthday campaign fully ends and the impact that it can have.
Host 1:59:17
And I think what's so cool and what you guys were talking about is that you're in in what's your in this event that is being sponsored now, it's not narrowed into like just a limited field of people only being concerned about one aspect of something that's happening here but it's it's you're widening it to look at how the environment is being affected. So all the people that are under that banner and that are carrying about that issue can also be involved and especially artists because you know, when people are looking at what is happening right now and there is that feeling of well what can I do and how can I do it and one of the guys I interviewed just a few days ago he was this he's this Australian artist living in Montreal, who Been to Myanmar twice. And he was so upset about what was happening that he just went out to his free corner. And he just painted this beautiful mural in Montreal just to raise awareness for things that were going on in Myanmar, just to do his part. And so the event that you're talking about doing under the banner of Earth Day and focused on Myanmar, is bringing all of those collective creative and artistic energies of people who might who might feel this really strong volition to want to do something or support in some way, but it just feels so far away. And they feel like such a small person, given the seriousness of what's happening. And through this auction you're creating, it's allowing so many of those individual pockets of people around the world living their own creative lives, to be able to just give something with their hands with their mind, that can show their concern about what's happening in Myanmar also coordinate with earthday, and then bring in a whole set of donors and participants that are able to get something special and to have, you know, a beautifully created piece of art and with all of their funds going towards those communities that are just enormously at need and at risk right now. So it's just a really cool way to bring together a lot of different camps and peoples and interests into one event where everyone gets to benefit. I've
Sandra 2:01:22
taken a look at some of the pieces so far. And they range through some unique video games, to pictures of petri dishes, to beautiful artworks and performances. So it's interesting seeing how people conceptualize our work defining the Myanmar spring revolution and environment in their own unique ways. So Jasmine has been doing our wonderful job of vetting our different pieces and would love to hear about the the pieces you've seen so far.
Jasmine 2:01:59
So most of which are really beautiful digital arts. And, and when I look at it, actually, there are some paintings too, and there's one really caught my attention is a beautiful painting of a Burmese like Buddhist ladies are praying. And this from the view from the back. And as a Buddha is is very personal and very beautiful to me. And, and I'm looking forward to seeing you more like art submission. So we have until April 22 to submit your art. So if you have if you're an artist and would like to submit, please, welcome.
Angie 2:02:44
Thank you Jasmine on top of that, like for digital art, you can also do so much more with the creativity output. A friend of mine is actually trying to input a video of his and he's a an artist and dancing and performance art. And he's created a beautiful video of him dancing around in a beautiful environment of nature to showcase what Earth Day means to him and how he has given back as part of this performance community. And he's even done of a narrative into that video. So things like that, where it's not just restricted to something on a canvas or something written down, it can be almost anything could be you dancing, it could be you emotionally just expressing yourself through any output and platform.
Host 2:03:30
Yeah, that's great that artists are by nature creative and thinking outside of boxes. And so it's really just creating this platform where people can give and do what it is that defines their life. And that's most meaningful to them, and then putting it out there for others to make an auction with the funds going for, you know, those that that are really needing it that are looking for a lifeline in Myanmar and trying to continue the nonviolent struggle that we know is going on right now. And this is also so cool and so relevant as well, because, of course, we're talking mainly about people contributing and also of course, buying in the auction outside of Myanmar. But within me and Mark art has played an enormous role in what is going on, you know, just just unbelievable the kind of artists that are coming up and I spoke to someone on the podcast and ask them to explain it. And their view was that there's always been this really powerful art scene but a lot of the people involved in it don't are unable to make a living by doing what they love most and so they're they're using they're either doing something completely different on the job or they're like if they're, you know, an artist or a writer, they're involved in PR or something more corporate and more boring but because there's most people aren't working now they're all motivated in creating the art and we're seeing you know, just incredible like rap songs and punk songs and graffiti and original artwork that's being posted everywhere online and on making, you know, t shirts and posters and other things out of it. And Social media, very various kinds of social media campaigns and posts and poems. And just so much, I mean, the art that is flowing out of me and my right now to express how people are feeling and what their thinking is this goes on is really quite tremendous. So it couldn't be any more appropriate to call on the artistic counterparts of the people around the world that are supporting what is happening in country by being able to give and support here. And let us not forget that these artists, these celebrities, these creators that are in Myanmar are no safer than normal people. And in many ways, they are less safe, they are being targeted for their influence for their gifts for their creativity. And, and for them to continue to create and to motivate the masses of what they're doing. This is a risk for themselves personally, to continue to pursue that art. And so it's really a beautiful thing to be calling upon these artists around the world who have been touched by me and more concerned about the environment, concerned about just injustice that's happening anywhere, and to have this chance to be able to contribute and to show their solidarity to show their gifts. And it's really exciting to see what will be produced and available for, for people to to check out and to see what they're interested in and just to window shop in a virtual sense. And, and this is just a really, really kind of unique and innovative, innovative way to involve a lot of people in fundraising where it's not just a simple donor giving something and then that money goes to a good cause. But it's so many different people involved that get to be involved in that whole giving process.
Sandra 2:06:48
Thank you so much. And the sentiments expressed, really highlight well how, as you said, over the past week, a lot of influencers, celebrities, artists, those with the platform and who I've been taking the risk, use their platform to mobilize people on the ground. They've been abducted, they've been persecuted, they've been targeted, get be seen that even through this attack on their, on their well being and their safety. That is only fires up people more in showing solidarity. And we hope that this art auction also is an honor to all of the artists out there who have been targeted, persecuted. And we hope that the artwork that we're able to create as an international community can, in some way, reflects all of the beautiful performances and artwork that has been produced out of this movement, I think with when you see a revolution, it also creates so much passion and emotion that really gets funneled into beautiful performances and artwork. And again, like artwork is very broad. And his term, it doesn't just have to be something on a page, it can be a dance, it can be a spoken word performance. So definitely just we love seeing how people use their own perception of art and or submitting rare, unique pieces. And we really look forward to putting it on display for everyone to see at our art auction on April 24.
Host 2:08:24
So with that in mind, this art auction is just going to be right around the corner from when this podcast gets released. Let's learn a little bit more about the details of how donors and buyers can participate in seeing what kind of artwork is available and participating in the live auction. So actually, what what are the details about how someone can come on and check all this out?
Ashley 2:08:50
Right. So as Jasmine mentioned earlier, if you are interested in submitting your art still and it's before the 22nd 7:30pm pacific time, then you can go to our website, or you can go to our Facebook page and and submit a Google form. Or you can send your actual art, or a copy or an image of your art to fundraising at GM for mt.org. As long as it's before April 22 at 7:30pm. But if you are interested in seeing the art, please go to our website, GM for md.org. We have a landing page there and we're going to be having a gallery that shows a preview of all the art including performances, songs, poetry, paintings, and yeah, the actual live event will happen on April 24 at 9:30am. Pacific time. And you can find out more about that on our Facebook page.
Host 2:09:51
Yeah, but we'll also be providing links for that in the Episode Notes and on our website so that people can easily check that out.
Ashley 2:09:57
Exactly. And the live event will actually highlight a lot of artists and their work that's pre recorded, and live performances as well.
Host 2:10:08
All right, that's great. So it's not just the actual art pieces that people can see, they can also learn about the background of those people that submitted them. Exactly. Yeah, that's really cool. All right. So that's really great stuff. Thank you all for coming on. It's been a pleasure to host so many members of your team. And I think in the coming weeks and months, we'll get a chance to chat with you more about everything that you're doing on an individual as well as an organizational level. And we're certainly talking about supporting and collaborating that on our end, as well. So they'll really be a lot to go over when we do. But for now, just thanks so much for all of you for coming on and sharing this and really want to encourage listeners to come and check this art out. Tell your friends and your community about it. It's really great stuff. And for all of you guys, thanks so much for taking the time to be here with us. Thanks, Joe.
Jasmine 2:10:59
Thank you so much. Well,
Host 2:11:07
you've been listening to the Insight Myanmar podcast, we'd appreciate it very much. If you could rate review and or share this podcast, every little bit of feedback helps. You can also subscribe to the Insight Myanmar podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever else you get your podcasts to make sure you don't miss any of our upcoming episodes. If you can't find our feed on your podcast player, please just let us know and we'll ensure it can be offered there in the future. Also, make sure to check out our website for a list of our complete episodes, including additional text videos and other information available at Insight myanmar.org. And I also invite you to take a look at our new nonprofit organization at better burma.org. There are certainly a lot to talk about in this episode, and we'd like to encourage listeners to keep the discussion going. Make a POST request specific questions and join in on discussions currently going on. On the Insight Myanmar podcast Facebook group. You're also most welcome to follow our Facebook, Instagram and Twitter accounts by the same name. If you're not on social media, feel free to message us directly at info at Insight myanmar.org. Or if you'd like to start up a discussion group on another platform, let us know and we can share that form here. Finally, we're open to suggestions about guests or topics for future episodes. So if you have someone or something in mind, please do be in touch. We would like to take this time to thank everyone who made this podcast possible. Currently, our team consists of two sound engineers, Mike pink and Martin combs. There's of course Zach Kessler, content collaborator and part time co host, Ken pranskey helps with editing and a special Mongolian volunteer who was asked to remain anonymous does our social media templates. In light of the ongoing crisis in Myanmar, a number of volunteers have stepped in to lend a hand as well. And so we'd like to take this time to appreciate their effort and our time of need. And we're always on the lookout for more volunteers during this critical time. So if you'd like to contribute, definitely let us know. We'd also like to thank everyone who has assisted us in arranging for the guests we've interviewed so far. And of course, we send a big thank you to the guests themselves, for agreeing to come on and share such personal powerful stories. Finally, we're immensely grateful for the donors who made this entire thing possible. We want to remind our listeners that the opinions expressed by our guests are their own and don't necessarily reflect the host or other podcast contributors. Please also note that as we are mainly a volunteer team, we do not have the capacity to fact check our guest interviews. By virtue of being invited on our show. There's a trust that they will be truthful and not misrepresent themselves or others. If you have any concerns about the statements made on this or other shows, please contact us this recording is the exclusive right of Insight Myanmar podcast and may not be used without the expressed written permission of the podcast owner, which includes video, audio written transcripts or excerpts of any episodes. Also not meant to be used for commercial purposes. On the other hand, we're very open to collaboration. So if you have a particular idea in mind for sharing any of our podcasts or podcast related information, please feel free to contact us with your proposal. If you would like to support our mission, we welcome your contribution. During this time of crisis, all donations now go towards supporting the protest movement in Myanmar to our new nonprofit better Burma. You may give by searching better Burma on paypal Venmo cash app, GoFundMe and patreon as well as via credit card at better burma.org slash donation. You can also give right on our Insight Myanmar website as all donations given there are directed towards the same fund. And with that, we're off to work on the next show. So see you next episode.
2:15:01
Alright guys