Transcript: Episode #47: A Risk-Taker at Risk
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Thurein, which appeared on April 25, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:08
I'd like to welcome everyone tuning in to this episode. Many of you now listening likely enjoy a measure of personal freedom and liberty in your own lives that the following speaker you're about to hear from does not. I don't say this to make anyone feel guilty, but to offer a reminder that we're very fortunate to have a certain agency and safety in our lives that our upcoming guests, and everyone else in Myanmar these days can only dream of. So after you hear their story, please consider how you can use your freedom to support or advocate on behalf of the Burmese people. Any action no matter how small counts? Now, let's hear what they have to say.
Thurain 02:09
Hey, why are they a goody? Goody. I'm here speaking to Lorraine. He is coming to us from Yangon. And we are going to check in with him and find out what he's been up to these past couple months and what thoughts and reflections he has. So the rain thank you for joining us, and welcome to Insight Myanmar podcast. Thank you actually given me the chance to talk with you. Yeah, sure. So before we get into what's going on now and what you've been up to recently, I want to learn a little bit about yourself. So can you take us back and tell us a little bit about your upbringing, your family life, your background, so we get a little more idea about who you are. Basically, I was working in the NGO sector as a consultant and freelance. And after that is to establish my business. I have like three different businesses. So they're, they transform into like a fully online, and within jurien COVID-19. Now, it's almost gone. Gone started from first February, if we're basically trying to do everything we that we can, because like, we feel that this is the last fight for for the decades. If we we must wait. And we have so many opportunity to win. And we can also see the unity of people from the different sides. Yeah, definitely. And we'll get into all of that. I want to talk a little bit about before February 1. Before we do, as far as you're comfortable in sharing, and please don't reveal anything that puts you where people might see you at risk. Can you tell us a bit about the businesses that you were doing before February 1. Basically, I was doing three different businesses. The first one is actually our interpretation services and translation interpretations that I have been working over five years now like six years. And after that, I was working as consulting businesses basically, for corporate big corporate projects and other you know, SME projects. Basically we are especially focused on corporate projects. And this is the second job and the third businesses I company like software development and things like that now, we are now developing games. So we are So produce the games different type of games that Yeah, I see. So you do what you were doing three jobs at once you were developing games and software. You were doing translation and you were a corporate consultant. Is that correct? Yeah. So you were keeping busy trying to be, you know, yeah. Yeah. Right. So, are you are you from Yangon originally? No. Actually, I was born in Korea and and grew up and get che. And I came down here in Yangon, basically, to study abroad now I got a scholarship. And yeah, then I when I came down for the more importantly for study and business now I live in the jungle. I see. Right, so it sounds like you've kind of lived all over the country. Exactly. Yeah. I had to trouble. I had to travel a lot around the country because of my job. Uh huh. Right. So what in your experiences and growing up in one area of the country studying in another area, maybe having family elsewhere and then coming to live and work in the big city? What what's your observations? What have you experienced has been like seeing these different parts of Myanmar that maybe other Burmese haven't had the same experiences you've had in being able to explore the country, what kinds of perspectives and insights if you have been able to travel, travel around and be among different communities? Yeah, what I can say is like, people is people you know, they are the older people. And the my life experiences are a little bit different from other other other people because I was born in a conflict zone, near time border. And also it was intense. When I was young, and I, I grew up in a chain again, conflict, again, didn't return to the does in life, it's important to get an intensive conflict again. And now here in Young Living in the first year, this is the very first time and after 1990, people didn't really understand why Anthony people holding you know, what points are too different in terms of now the the whole general public in Myanmar, especially them that apart, they now understand, and they can feel deep empathy, you know, now, now they can feel why other peoples are feeling that way. So this is the very, very, like, you know, enormous, significant time. And unfortunately, that people, the whole country, without region without color, without religions, you know, none of that can prevent us to be united. Right, right. So you grew up in chaos state on the Thai border? Is that correct? Yeah. My father is rock high. And my mom is Shawn. Yeah. So it's a rotation chaotic chain? Did your family grew up Buddhist? Traditionally? Yeah. Right. And what shaped did your own Buddhist practice or beliefs take on to wholeness, actually, you know, I can only believe that meditation. And we also say that how to say, We bought dinner. This is the only thing I believe in practice, others I don't really believe because because you know, that I cannot really practice, like a kind of spiritual belief or something like that. But I do believe in proteins and meditation, and we better. That's the only thing. And I know, in Myanmar, there's many different types of passionate traditions. And in fact, the entire mindfulness movement that has developed in the West largely comes from 19th and 20th century Burmese lineages. So what type of passionate do you practice? And what tradition Do you follow? Basically, on? Almost nothing, yeah. But, but I can say that, I really appreciate that. And also the I always respect, you know, other people behave behavior, and also belief. I'm not saying that they are no good. They're also because you know, all the traditions and also the religions, they are meant to be good, you know, to be safe, and to be secure. And also to have kind of belief, you know, when they are in the struggle, so I do appreciate that. But I also have my own personal thoughts on that. Right. And you said, the one thing you really respect about Burmese Buddhist tradition is the passion of practice. And what is it about compassionate meditation practice that you hold so sacred, basically, that basically, the only thing I do is like meditation is, you know, it's a kind of practical, it's peaceful, and you can concentrate and you can be productive, and also mentally and physically, then that can relieve your pains and everything like, you know, especially you are in the struggle, and it's helped you to focus. So this is how I like it. A lot. And also it bring me peaceful moment, you know, right? Are you able to maintain any kind of practice even through these difficult days in the last couple months? You know, honestly, I did in practice for a long time. But in between what, especially when I do this when I am depressed, and also, now I'm not depressed anymore, I'm pretty motivated. I try and when I go, and I try to focus, and I do this now I, I already have enough focus to do to do things. So Right, right. You mentioned how when you grew up in chaos in Kachin state, that you personally experienced a bit of conflict in those ethnic areas. And as far as you're comfortable and sharing, I don't want to invite or bring back trauma that you may have experienced then by sharing now, but as far as you're comfortable in educating us on what life was like in those areas, and what you experienced in your childhood, what can you tell us? Basically, you know, this is this kind of thing is not the first time for me, because I grew up in the mountain region, you know, in the Atlanta region, even in, you know, middle here in the Congo and the city of Mandalay, you know this when we compare with other new region, this is this is just a minor case. You know, there are so many cool things has been happening in the past 60 years, 5060 years. And also I when I was at university students, I were there in imaging, I was in kitchen state, I was volunteering and the one of the bigger and the IDP camp around me see now we call it I forgot the name. That that come on half for like four or 5000 people there, and we volunteer there and we tried to teach the students who have a continuous education, even though the weakest I have no I cannot speak a chain even though but entre we tried to teach English and better manage those kind of things. Even while I was volunteering, you know, the ad can. And you know, bullets are flying. You know, it is no fun. It is not so far from Messina, which is capital city of Kachin state. This is this is not the very first things. You know, the form is basically even people people live in the Atlanta area. This is this is not the first time for them. They've been generations already suffer for that even senior generation, and now our generation and now again, if we cannot if we don't when our younger generation will feel again, so that's why we have to win this fight. And we have hope and opportunity. Right? So you were in Kian kitchen, you were raised in one place and educated and worked a bit in the other. And then when you came to Yangon, initially, what did you experience there? Did you have any kind of cultural shock? What were the what was the differences at that time of living in Yangon compared to the two previous environments? You know, there are so many funny story because I do I didn't know how to take baths. I didn't know how to order breakfast. And you know, the there are so many, uh, you know, I'm a rural guy. And so then when I see that tall building, let's say that you know, the bid the apartments high so that I was he was an also breed building some modernized, because I didn't you know, I'm a rural guys and I didn't have any exposure to go abroad. So the one I came up when I came to Yangon was the very first time that there are so many things. Oh, well, this is younger than I got here. And gotcha. I thought it is New York. So many families out there. Right. So it was really quite a difference in being in the big city. And did you encounter encounter or feel any differences? Well, in terms of coming from a place where there was a conflict zone, and people were scared, and there was a bit of tension into Yangon, which at that time was probably relatively peaceful. So I got a scholarship and yeah, I got a scholarship to study in Yangon. First, this now I'm going to get a scholarship This is the third scholarship and God then I go study. Right. And did did you feel any? Any difference? And because you were you were raised in these two areas where there was much more conflict and tension and, and and the military was there and then in young gone there, there wasn't before. A couple months when you arrived there, there wasn't much. It was kind of a normal functioning life. So did that experience feel different for you? So the different feeling is, you know, in Django, every door lock, you know, in our hometown, let's say in Aegina the doors always open only at night and they lock the door and they sleep. Even, you know, the majority of the but a yongle every apartment, the law the key, you know, so it was not normal for me. I thought and also people are no friendly this is you know urban culture now I got used to when I'm became one of them can what ways Did you find certain kinds of warm for friendliness in Kian kitchen? That you weren't experiencing any and gone more more specifically? Basically you know when we especially social life and also the people don't really want to say they don't really agree strangers for me if I compare with my my native tongue and also the another one is I feel so strange because in the Chester we don't say mingle about all the time you know when we hear everyone say my grandma Whoa What the hell is and people see people see that we are rude because we don't say Ming lava and Okay, let's say Dan I know now I used to work at mega lab all the time while we agreed that for different cultures and culture shock even in the country, and also food as well. Yeah.
16:03
How so?
Thurain 16:05
Yeah, basically, we call it shannara. And they don't call it Shinoda I offer like, it's almost a month that is like it's almost a month that I couldn't have my usual breakfast. What's your usual breakfast? Basically, you shall breakfast is the that we call it some old or younger, because it is different names. That is it subconsciously it is Chinese Chinese noodle, because in kitchens, TV, you know the weird, Chinese noodle is dominant to school. And you couldn't get that in Yangon. Actually, you know, the waited was different if I want to have it now I know some places so that I go there because now the anyango the way they make it an order is different. So if I want to have that taste, then I have to go somewhere and either you know, double or triple. Right? I see. So you were in Yangon, right? When all these really exciting reforms were taking place in the 2010s. And there were greater freedoms, there were greater opportunity, there was greater possibility, you definitely took advantage of that through your education, through your scholarship through your business that you set up. So can you tell us what it was like and tell our listeners who weren't so familiar with the country or the changes taking place? What was it like to live in the city as these reforms and greater personal freedoms were coming about? You know, the only one thing, the first thing very, you know, positive day, and also significant thing is freedom, freedom speech, we, you know, I am, I was active in the, you know, nonprofit, and I was working in nonprofit, nonprofit area, and handling the different projects, I know, I established all foundation as well, in the in the in the past. So, you know, when we were in debt at the time, 11 1213 1415 The point is, until 2013, I was a young girl and I was in kitchen. But in kitchen, even though there was like democratization process started, but in between study there was intensive, you know, the conflict there, people are dying and getting saved, but what we what I can hear in yongle is, you know, it started to open up. And also people can have very open conversation about their political stuff, and also the other things where people's are very positive for the future as well. This is the the, when I came back here when I came to come down to yongle. Right, and then as the years progressed, and you got more into business and scholarship and probably friends and such, what what was it like living through society as it was continuing to open up and modernize and become a bit more sophisticated? You know, the peoples are very hopeful, hopeful, you know, now, the the way the military days is a kill in the future. So we are very hopeful because our country is, you know, brighter, day by day, we really hope that one day we will be like Singapore, we will be suisan and those kind of thing we imagine, you know, and also the, the basically, everyday Yeah, for example, I do I'm not afraid or COVID as a business owner, because I tried to look for the ways and we did overcome we got you know, to two and a half time growth at the end of turn to 2020. You know, this is the way we try to overcome the pandemic, but this time is is is killing the futures and also this only if we win that we can have hope. Yeah, this we were grateful and we were all positive what, whatever struggle we face. We will post this and we try to move forward. You know, and as long as our political landscape is a democratic way, I don't care which party is gonna win the gonna win the election. But what I care is that democratic process, greater, more democratic way is important. We our country needs to be underway, because I'm not a member of, you know, under the member or any any party that I want to only do k is a democratic way. So that is the only hope we have. So leading to February 1, you had these three simultaneous businesses you were running sounds like things were going well, you'd come from a small rural part of the country and made it in the big city made it three fold in the big city, actually. And even through COVID, when COVID started to hit where your where your businesses, okay, was your work still managing? Because I know COVID was hard for a lot of business owners. Yeah, basically, like COVID, heating, you know, much, much basically 2020. So, from March and April, we did nothing, we stopped all the operation stop. And we were trying to, basically, we're trying to start from the, you know, case, case, cases from the other other country in the region, and also westerns, and we're trying to learn what kind of, you know, pattern we're going to face, what kind of degree and what kind of industry we are in, because I'm a business consultant, I can well analyze my business as well. So, so this kind of thing, we try to look for those kinds of data research and forget and figure, Stan, we're trying to, you know, make a very a giant, very a giant business model, and we're trying to chain everything's that we have, that we try to transform fully online. Now. Now, it's crap, right? In your business was also doing okay, during the year of COVID. For the first two quarters differ, the first quarter was okay, because if before COVID-19, the second quarter was really bad, no income at all. And the third quarter is a little bit okay. And the full quarter is, again, is his full full engine to go forward. So things were going well, then everything changes on February 1, and what was your reaction and feeling when you woke up? February 1 in the morning? How did you learn about what happened? And what was your response? You know, they're only one word, no, is no future. You see, because I am, I can, I am, I can see I'm still a young person. One before that day, you know, we already suffer a cough, COVID-19 pandemic, and also the, you know, turn 21st, January, even at night, Sunday night, our whole team was working so hard. My corporate business officers, she tried to email as much as she can, until 11pm. And our team, our executive team, had a meeting until 1230. You know, we just finished our system and plan to hit the target of financial, social things like that to target and we just finished detailed plan for every aspect of our business that night, and tomorrow night. someplace that you can feel home. Right, so walk us through that first week of your reaction when you learned this happen. And there was obviously shock you were late the night before with your business. So your mind was obviously in a completely different area and zone. And when you were spending that first week or two kind of adjusting to the new reality and trying to figure out how to respond to it. What What were you thinking, what were you doing hopeless, disappointment? Just kind of feeling I know no future, I feel that it's all black out. we feel that how dare there you know, did that way, it's all about, you know, they just kill the futures of the people in Myanmar, because people were putting all positive energy and people are trying so hard, you know, working for them and the country. We are so much behind in the region and also grow globally. We are one of the poorest countries. So we try to work so hard that time. It is such a real cruel things. This is how I felt. So it sounds like you were kind of in a depression at that time. Is that right? Yeah. Not only me, everyone, like my friends call me. We all had the same feeling.
Host 24:38
Right? So as you were depressed, were you were you doing things were you active? Were you planning or was it just kind of a time to to work through the depression and almost like a therapy to try to, to talk and have conversations and to to feel some come out of that despair? What were you actually doing during this time?
Thurain 24:59
You know, we depressed basically holy shit, everything is gone or we feel that way, then at the same time, we're motivated, we want to do something, and we want to fight back. And we are very determined that this is this must be, the last fight, this must be the less fight otherwise, you know, we will have to hold our hand our our daughter and son hands and protests, again, when we are getting older. I don't want to let that happen.
Host 25:28
So that decision to on your part to want to resist and take some action about the coup that had taken place? That did that come about? Right away after after February 1? Y
Thurain 25:42
eah, sure. Sure. So we are, we cannot sleep well, we cannot eat well, everything when we see that everything is dying. Even when we see the green color life. Like, you know, the green colored trees, we are seeing they are dying in our feeling, you know, everything's dark. And also, we want to bring some light in our life. And we want to see the very clear future in our lifetime.
Host 26:08
So what did you do to try to come out of that? darkness and despair and your words and the metaphor and the imagery that you're painting? to want to bring some light and bring some hope? What were you trying to do towards those ends?
Thurain 26:21
So the first first thing, we go protest, this is the very first thing, the whole brothers and sisters, you know, in our home, then we go we want on street and we protest, this is the very first thing we did, then we try to consider something, think I'm trying to talk with our friends, okay, we have to do something, we have to do something then that can we have like CDs and things like that choice. comedy is another thing we are trying to do. I'm trying to do everything I can as much as possible, in every way, and trying to support not only meet with my friends and colleagues, right? And so you were trying to fit in to see where you were able to help and what in your background skills were you able to apply to be able to serve this resistance? Basically, my personal personality is not a from frontline person, you know, I am a my personality. And my skill is kind of like strategic approach and also like coordination, things like that and motivating people. This is something I'm good at that. So what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to apply those skills while we try to work. That is national movement. So that's been kind of the role you've been taking on is more of the strategizing and connecting people and networking. Is that true? Yeah, sure. Right. And how's that been going? So well, group is pretty still a small group. However, we have now walkout at the national level with a different different group of people that from the strike groups, national strike groups, and also from the you know, other groups who are actually getting the training indicate new area, and also the Syrian people that are trying to help the people that we raise funding. And also they are we also have time to think with the CRP h. So this is something that we've been doing, but we are a small group, but this is something we try. We are we've been doing. So with your small group, you've been coordinating the different team members and also reaching out to groups in other areas or like a national network, is that how it's been going on? Basically, like, Now, first, we're trying to support the key is to shale and also like medical support, to basically they are friends I raise funding and also that we try to call them contact with those people and grow as much as we can. This is something we've been basically I have been I have been involved in like three or four groups, actually, for example. One is to support the strike people like people are at the frontline. And you know, go protest, we try to do something for we're trying to support that is one group. Another group is a CGM. You know, there are two types of cillian. One is normal government officer civil cells and other type is soldiers and police. They are pretty much like, you know, the is more intense actually, to work for them. So this is another group or two different groups. Another one is like which we're trying to closely work with the people who get the training from indicare new area. This is something I've been doing with this friends. Yep. So basically for Syrians. We basically trying to help around to 300,300 people of over 300 people. Now we got more and more people so is it it's already over fire versus Fire, fire and rip people with This is for stadiums. Yeah. Yeah. Is there certain departments you're working with and CDM? Basically, according to my job, I have a close relationship with the government department in Naypyidaw, so for some department, I got, like, you know, the whole department list for some department, I go there some kind of like regional regional colleagues and they trying to do trying to ask me and so I tried to approach them so that I got so these are pretty much the from the throughout the country and different, it cover various department as well. So it sounds like you have some kind of contact list and you're making cold calls to the people that are on that list that are still going to the office that you might not know, personally, or even have a mutual friend, and through these cold calls, you're trying to convince them to stop going to the office and join CDM Is that correct? Yeah, basically, like people are in my lives, either, you know, they're the people who have different backgrounds, you know, people have different different background for example, some people are very determined and from the very beginning the the officially announced in their social media accounts and friend Dr. Cydia is one type of person very determined person, people, not a tribal, the people is this still thinking whether they should take their risk because, you know, being their civil servant, they are not risk taker, we have to understand their personality. Right. So they try to consider whether they should take that risk, whether it's wrong or right, this is their life. So then, later on, later on, when they see brutal at, you know, violent, buying the soldiers, you know, police then day to day became a CTMS. Another type of people is, you know, they want to help, but they want to be inside the department to bring the kind of, you know, confidential, news announcements order, they are also that both those type of people there, another type is, they will never be in, you know, they will never imboden Senior moment, because normally, those kind of people are corrupt, you know, they get money under the table, and they cannot stop doing those kinds of things with those kind of people will never try and sit here. So we really had a week what I understood what I according to my point is we have to understand the behavior and personality of the and, and also we suffer that. So it sounds like you're having to talk to all these different types of civil servants. And depending on what their background is, the conversation would go in different ways. And I imagine that with some of them, you're establishing these ongoing relationships where you're not just talking one time, but you're talking over a period of days or weeks or more as this drags on, you know, people so stressful, especially Syrians, because they are no risk taker. Normally, you know, if the risk risk taker, they will become entrepreneur. Very simple. Just my personal opinion. So, they're very stressful, I always have half communication with them. I tried to keep in touch with them always, like two or three days, I tried to call and my team tried to call them whether it's okay, what's going on. And as a way even became a kind of sort of like families, because I in between, we built a relationship with them. And we're trying to extend that whatever it is, what kind of things they need, and we're trying to support as much as we can. I imagine those conversations must take turns of being sometimes quite intimate, sometimes quite tense. They must really go through a roller coaster of emotions and relations as you're having those conversations. Yeah, basically, even in this morning, I just had a conversation with one of the CDM leader, yeah, how was that they are Friday. Basically, they they worry, you know, the they will, they will be dismissed very soon in this month. And also the they are thinking what to do, and they are asking some reason to keep doing that. Because on the ground, things are very getting words. So we had to take action politically and crbh and ethnic groups, they really have to take actions, something very strong because we're level administration that, you know, the military trying to control the water level administration, because currently it is empty, right. There's no word level administration, if and also the CMR they are actually hiding somewhere they think there is safe, but if it is, word level administration is happening that is very difficult. So they worry they are worried and they are asking where To go, and also the, you know, one of the family there CDM, CDM Syrian family and got in touch with that they have five members of family, they have to move around, you know, imagine they're young, young children. One one is just only two or three years old, is too young, they have to move around the whole family, they cannot bring anything, they just have some, even they even they don't have money to for that. And the request you do request us, can you please arrange something like for pass or something is for five people even pass is not cheap for them to go fight for five, five people is expensive, but they have to go around, they don't think they're safe. So it is, you know, people Everyone has their own How to say more or less, they have evil, right? They don't want to bad people, you know, even they are in terrible stages financially. Sometimes you don't want to open up to x hub, but finally the x hub and we're trying to support that, you know, what it is, is terrible to see those, there's so many people on CMR they are not safe, and also police and military. They are, you know, they are investigated everywhere. They act like they are you know, cdms are being treat treated as a safe, criminal, you know, is so bad and indeed is something I'm, I feel very, very emotional when I want to have the conversation and at least what what what we can do is like, you know, we try to connect with the local, local business network and college to support them, you know, the entire region. And so that this is something we try to provide, you know, we there's so many people like us, you know, grupotel do some of it enough, some are small loggers. So there's a very emotional to see the this time that I that I'm we also try to do our best to overcome this, then somehow, you know, families or families are in a very, very bad condition, not only cdmos but but also the villagers in could change and Korea as well, in Rakhine. The whole police burned down or been burnt burnt out, this is very, very tough for the family. Right, so you're painting this picture of the civil servants that are by definition are not really risk takers that want to be in a comfortable, padded position that presumably for life to be able to be taken care of. And now these types of people find themselves at the very center and heart of a movement about whether or not the coup will succeed. So they're having to find some kind of inner strength to be able to step away, even while they're being hunted. While they might have families, while their their physical safety and our family's physical safety is in jeopardy. And they're having to take these great risks. People who you have said are not inherently risk takers for the position they found themselves. So you must really see and encounter some true acts of like selfless heroism and courage from people who maybe haven't really stepped into that role before I would imagine, you know, it the past decade, 10 years, we already enjoy our freedom, we already enjoy our potential. You know, we see our future of the country and our futures are brighter. It's being heal in the last two months here, you know, can you imagine that basically, people are feeling grateful and brighter and better life for the future, and the dignity of their life. And it's been destroyed, it's been stolen. This is how they feel. For example, in, in the government, a part of you know, this is departments, they can also feel that way. You know, they became, they gotta get it, they gotta get in touch with international organization and support. They never got those in the past government, military government, and they call the international organization and they got communications, they got chances, they never got those things and support from the past military government. So basically tea in China free turn offs, speech and greater dignity of life. Now if they don't want to go back to don't want to give that to their children, They want to, you know, give the children with a brighter future, some greater dignity. We don't want to bad. You know, if I was grew up in the military government when I was young, we have to pray a one in whatever whenever military officer can, you know? And everyone has to afraid of that. Everyone. Do you know how the people respond? They one one on 1am, I still remember the clear have a clear picture. When I were young. It is very, very different. Okay, we pass the last 10 years, different decades. And we enjoy it. And we love it. We got we want to get it more. You don't? Can you imagine it the way we go was just a few little things when we compare with other country, a few little things we got, we've got a little sunlight in the past 10 years, not not like other country. Other countries, we got, you know, in Europe in even look at the other same country. We got just a few. But we enjoy a lot. We want to get it more in the future. But it's been stolen. And you did a lot with that little bit of sunlight. The view only had it for a few years. And it wasn't in full form. But people made the most of it. Yeah, trying to. Right, so going back to CDM. How do you regard the importance of CDM in the overall movement. Now, this, this point is very critical. Now, it's very critical. In the past two months, I love it. I was doing everything I can at my team as well, my friends, we're trying to do everything we can, you know, we, we we we receive the car either in the middle of night, early morning, the whole day, doesn't matter. Everything we can we can do that I love the spirits of people, people are very determined, and also Syrian people as well. But what we have to understand is they have their different background. And of course, like everyone, we really have to do something now is a very critical on ground.
42:35
This is
Thurain 42:36
getting more and more difficult now. Even our friends are dying.
Host 42:42
I already lose two friends in our group. Well, I'm sorry, they got they got recently killed. They were they were being killed by police at the police station. How were they arrested? At not you know, you already known that. At night they they came to their homes. Basically, one person was shot on the street, in a near his home, and also brought him to the police station. And they got orderlies off our team. And we have to move move around, then that he then you know the You Can he was killed. I'm so sorry. What I'm trying to say is now time is very critical. We are about to have a civil war again. Right, I just can't imagine how a society has changed the way yours has in two months, it kind of reminds me of these movies or TV series that have some kind of apocalyptic event of, you know, zombies or me media or something like that. And people are just living their ordinary lives one day and all going about their professions. And then afterwards, everyone has completely reinvented themselves to be able to do whatever they can to keep the hope of freedom alive. And it's kind of must feel in some ways, like a long lost memory of who you were before February 1. What is the process been like to change from being a business man or a teacher or delivery driver or a salesman or whatever these people were in just normal society and to change from that kind of boring, routine job in and out to the situation now where everything is broken down and everyone is having to completely take on new jobs and roles and skills and everything else. What is that transformation then like? Oh, they don't want to lose hope for the future. Hold that can cover the whole mindset of the people in their mouth. They want to keep alive the hope. That's why we're doing everything we can. I can. I'm also one of the My friends, also one of the we are still keeping our hope, we will keep our hope for sure. We will do everything we can, from our experience and and specialties, what we have learned. So however you need to transform yourself whatever role you need to take on, regardless of whether it's been something done in the past, regardless of whatever the past was. That is something that everyone feels committed to do, based on this idea of hope that's being held on to
Thurain 45:45
Yeah, basically, you know that people don't want to pass that on to the next generation with these horrible things. We want to stop, we don't want to see any more in the future. We don't want to see any more. So in these past two months, as different organizational structures have had to come on different networks, different roles and leaders, no one was really prepared for any of this, everyone was just living their normal lives, and everyone is just had to quickly adjust and fit into what was needed. And these new roles and networks and everything have to be formed. So as they're being formed kind of on the fly kind of happening just as it goes under the best that one can do under these circumstances. How does this actually happen? How do people figure out who makes decisions? What decisions are followed? What what people do together? Which action they should do? Are there? Is there some kind of leadership? Is there some kind of counsel, is this done on a bigger level? Are there different, many different smaller units that are operating? But how is this come to be set up? It is all about basically discussion based on the discussion what we won, we trying to do something for example, people were angry Fs and to try to do something they feel pays for. And that's why, for example, like me, I tend to have the conversation with my friends. Okay, what we're going to do now, the first thing we're going to do what the first thing I did and my friend is worth did was one on street protests. This The first thing we did a couple of day, then we tried to donate something on street. After that, we got crbh so we tried to support crps and we tried to look for fancy city and then vouchers, they start medical professional, they started CDM they were trying to support CDM. And, you know, their patterns are changing, developing things. This is this is the way we transform which one we try to look for the center that we can support then we follow something then we try to fit in that way. We try to fit in and we're trying to support innovative way we understand that this time we have only one common enemy, which is detector ship. Only one common enemy, you know in Myanmar is pretty divisive. You know, in in the past, we have kind of you know how to say we attend say okay, our kitchen is gray bmrc our mamas gray Shan they say that way, but now it disappear. Because people in general and also a major part of Myanmar in the lowland they understand how the ethnic people feel in their life. So we are now united and also religions to try to help each other and our people as well. You know, there's one incident is it is lovely. One of my friends from kitchen, she's Christian, one day in Django in Santa, you know, she she tried she won protests on street and unfold. You know, she did a spat basically, actually one old lady give give it to her. And she requests that data, can you give this thing to protect the protester because this can, this can prevent, you know, kind of thing kind of religious, your spiritual beliefs, you know, kind of those kind of a small thing to hold on. If we Some people believe that if we hold something like that. There's a few little things either very traditional things than it is actual one of the Buddhists in belief than that. grandmom give that young lady, my ally, one of my friends and she's Christian, but she was happy to do that way even though there it is different cultures in different way. Yeah. And as these groups come together as different people start to work Together, even among this unity, I'm sure there are people with very different ideas of what to do and how to do it, when to do it, who should have it done, how it should be implemented? So how are decisions reached and agreed upon? It's all about teamwork. It's all about teamwork is all about and also based on your expertise as well. So what what what what, what you are good at is, for example, I have I am I have some searching skills, and especially, then, okay, I will say, I can take this part, and I'm going to do that way, then it's Oracle, in Myanmar now very popular word is quality of leadership. And what does that mean? It means that we don't really depend on one person, we depend on the group discussion and group capability. It doesn't mean that like, for example, if you, if you were arrested, if you were a leader if your residence evidence gone, so we don't want to, we don't, we don't want to let it happen. So what we do is, we have our members, they have their own rules, and as of course, actually are there based on their commitment, you know, some people they became, you know, one of the higher level, one of the highest trust level, for example. So, some there's some certain leaders, I can say your reality, however, is really can come up from the commitment. And, and also the, of course, we don't see that as a leader, but we see it as a leadership. And also we also see that people, everyone, they have their own leadership and they have their own role, which is important. We, we, we acknowledge us and we work together. So everything is really based on the team decisions and team capability. We don't really depend on the one person decision. Right? I see. But one concern is that as you're going about having these group discussions and engaging in different ideas of what to do, which sounds really wonderful, it's a great critical exercise in democracy. As you're having those discussions and you're including other people in them the concern comes in about spies or informers so How real is that concern? And how do you manage the process of how information is shared and who it's shared with? Um, basically it is a very confidential so when we share information I can say especially for operation you know, my friends don't my friends, they don't know my location very simple. They aren't some some sort of inference they don't they don't even know my name, my real name. So when we operate the operation with for example for CDM we work for the police and soldier military CDM so what they're different level if you've got if you if you're if I got arrests actually I don't know the the the audio information of my group for example, there is a police on gras. This is something we've been doing on graph then we got the information that they're like global police want to be CDN cdmos So do you want to do want to get involved in CDN so that we got the information I got the information so I pass it to the another person who is in in the in the in the local local network you know, he's in certain towns so there is no organiser danger I pass that information to the to the network facilitator and as you're trying to arrange that with the police but we don't directly you know, talk with the police we talk with a family you know, family members it is it is the safest way family member in another town not in the center. So we talk with the family member the family member the arrangement the time and another person went and pick up a go to the another place that I don't know. And I also don't know who pick up I also don't know where they are, but they only one or two people know that and also the she also doesn't know that where I am my real name. But the way we are we work is we we try to like we don't tell our real information, but our personal information but we tell the exactly that things and it figure out basically, it's the work so far, right? So it's been like a need to know basis so that you're limiting access to information. Yeah, basically if somebody's got errors, then We don't get the information. But still Yeah. Right. So you mentioned a bit about defection among police and military and CDM. There. And I think that's something that our listeners would be really interested in knowing more about. I know that in the first month of the protests, there were some kind of really powerful and inspiring stories of police officers mainly, I don't know, too many cases of soldiers, but certainly different police functionaries in different parts of the country that were publicly stepping down and giving speeches and interviews and, and making a big stand that they they would not serve the military administration. I haven't really heard a lot about defection or CDM much in the past month. So what's been going on with that recently, so basically, you know, they're the most difficult people to go off. Now, I got a list of 10 people or 10 police policemen and officers, they cannot they cannot come and join the city, they cannot even go out the you know, the station basically, they you know, Millett military, they took it, you know, analyse calls and also forms and evidently too many, many as well, how can they basically, you know, join sort of some places, so, they are very, they have very intense security rules, actually. And also police are being split up into the different groups like and also in a group, you know, when you see the police group, like do you have for 20 or 30 people, the real police is just only like, around maybe around maximum 10 people, there are others. So, soldiers, they are wearing police, police uniform, but, you know, I can see what I can say that, like, the police are not very decisive, I can see how honestly, there are people they are pleased, they are pleased to join, you know, what I can say is at least 70 police people, policeman, they don't lie military, you know, because they are reason that because like in, in Myanmar, all the senior level, administration, all the senior position, well taken by police, by you know, the people from military this very simple, since the democratic transition and blah, blah, blah is happening, they already put their man in the top position and even a middle middle position, partial level officer, strict level or like district level officer, Lana's regional, state level which officers, officials, they are actually from military. And so they don't know what to get what they are doing, because police, the police, they have the law, they have to obey laws, things like that. And they don't know what what the what they are doing, especially the military officials. That's why they hate that. And also, like, I'm weak, especially I have a I have, we have table police in the India office and we got information and orders on we receive, we have people in their station, people that are still working. So you estimate that 70% of police are not happy with their work and would like to step down what percent approximately have actually joined CDM from the police really based on the region because I don't have a real Ria data for that what I have is very few, very few of them. So if I if I compare, as long as I know, for example, change and gain a majority of the police or the Detroit CDM basically, engine state and get no sorry, to state so the the most of the enjoy, I don't really know that I don't have that data, but the percentage is pretty low, relatively low. Right. And why do you think that is, is one of the reasons is that it's hard to get access to them to be able to have those conversations or is it something else? You know, for me, what I can say is they are not decisive. What I can say is and also police departments is one of the most corrupt department you know, so corrupt you know this so that's why the corrupt people, they don't want to lose their job because they are getting money not from their salary from their authority. And I have a very close friends and police and also also the military, you know, so I know what you're doing basically. And so we they, they are people, you know, if you if you're getting money from the you know, illegal business, you got kind of like abortion from the illegal business, you know, that became your business, even though you're a police. Right. So this is looking at the police side, the military side is even more difficult to look at the factions. There have been very, very few defections there, what has been your experience in trying to work in within the military, of talking to personnel and soldiers and trying to encourage the factions there? Yeah, basically, they are people, you know, they are people who did try cdms and soldiers and police as well. You know, they are they also people, we were trying to design our own drone. And so that is basically how buying the drone department or military who got, you know, CDN. So, so they, they are people, you know, when you when you when you look at the result of the election, you know, the soldiers they did voted for energy a lot, a lot, you know, this is something we can easily see, but the problem is they are in control. And also they are out of information they do, you know, what I what I'm thinking is like military D trying to catch the internet. And I, I think out there some reason, of course, they try to, you know, control their protests. Another reason is they try to get the information from the real world to the soldiers, you know, soldiers are confused, you know, that when they cut information, they don't get information at all, from the real world. So that they can, you know, put down, you know, you know, propaganda, and make them believe, you know, those kind of thing is something I believe, so what will it take to bring about more defections from military and from soldiers? is one of the most difficult questions actually. Because, like,
1:01:59
Are you hopeful?
Thurain 1:02:02
And I'm still hopeful, basically, I'm still hopeful, but a few percentage, you know, because like, you know, from the engineering department or medical department, or, for example, a military doctors, they don't want to work. majority of them, they don't want to work now and the at the military, you want to resign, but they are not allowed now, especially now. So this is one of the real, real, real information. So what will it take to encourage those soldiers to act on their dissatisfaction and actually step down there basically. Being control and being you know, for example, last month, I heard the news from my team that one of the military that hospital from Milano, Milan Township, so there are two military official they trying to be cdmos. But they were be brought to maybe, you know, find the other, you know, gods, that people so that the military, they don't want their people to join the military. So, do you try to bring them to NATO, but on the way to NATO, they disappear. Very simple. So, this, and also the, the one of the news now got from from the now this very popular in on social media, and also the different news or agencies. So the military soldiers and also officer officer from the southern part. So they are also like, they just live they are they are, you know, boat, automated, they are from Navy, Navy, the Navy SEAL, the Navy department. So they all they also want CDM, but kind of this week or last week, yeah. They are their soldiers. I believe they are soldier but they are being controlled. They are being controlled so tightly. So this is something I believe, right. So I imagine in these conversations that you have encouraging CDM whether it's military police or whether it's just normal civil servants and office workers. A big part of the discussion is how they can be protected for their personal safety and their family as well as how they're possibly going to survive. for however long this takes because they won't have any income obviously, and many of them live in government housing and they won't want to live they won't want to be home anyway for fear of their safety. So a big part of your ability to support CDM is Is what you're able to provide in terms of resources? And how has that been going? Or do you have sufficient resources to be able to, to support and work with people who want to leave their position but need to be supported to do to do so? Basically, like, what I try to do is I try to get the information from ground and trying to coordinate with for example, me, I am mostly handling data from the ground. And there are a couple of people like group you're trying to raise funding, and also trying to support though I'm trying to ask them I have I have this people, they need help, can you help us to do the headers, so I have like friends who are like raising fundings as well. So what I what I do is basically I try to facilitate those those no work. No was for for like, health or needs. So this is something we've been doing. So what I if I answer your questions, we don't have like sophisticated resources. But what we're trying to do is we're trying to do with, we're trying to do everything with what we have. So are you getting more of that support from within or from outside the country? Yeah, both. Now we've got more and more support. Now great. And we should also mention for listeners, that those that are hearing you and that want to support your effort, that there is a way that they can give donation that would go towards your fund, and towards the purpose of encouraging people to be able to join CDM and have whatever minimal resources, their family needed to be safe. While this continued. So for those that are so moved, there is a way to be able to support you directly and the great work that you're doing. All right, I want to go on to another topic, which you mentioned a bit earlier in our conversation, where you were talking about the evolution of this protest movement, and the different activities that you guys were doing and talking about and planning and taking shape. And one of the things that you mentioned that I want to return to, is this training that is now taking place in some of the jungle ethnic regions, where there's these crash 710 day courses, where people are learning basic techniques or strategies, can you share more about what that is only insofar as it's safe to do so here? Yeah, we still need to develop a lot, because like, it is only the first patch. And also my friends are trying to access the curriculum there and how they go on, they're actually providing training. So what, as long as I heard that, they they already prepared the network and how to recruit people. And that I'm still concerned the strategy, how they're gonna do that, you know, this, this is something I'm still concerned that I thought this is the only the first part So, for the second part, we have to prepare a lot and also have to do more strategy strategically. So, our politically our our intention is actually we don't we cannot afford to let military govern at the world level administration, you know, this is very important, if we let them manage that, then it will be very difficult to do everything now we are doing so, then that and also we will be the we we will we will be supporting CDR crbh and also the new federal democratic credit country and we will we will take a part of the struggle of two to become the federal democratic democratic country. Now, you know, crbh and other ethnic groups, they will take a big move, we are we are taking a small move, but we will be kind of you know, this feeling the very small gap and but that will be that will have a huge impact you know, that will be stressful for for them for military coop to manage the work labor administration. Can you say more about that, because I think that listeners not familiar with me and Mar society and divisions have different kinds of departments and such would necessarily understand why control at the ward level at who is operating the different offices and such in the individual wards why that would be so critical and important at this time. So can you share why that is a real focus of attention. You know, in Myanmar, we have pretty different system in the past was under the military government in the past, before democratic transition, that is, at the world level administration, you have to register one, when you slip somewhere that is not your home, you have to give every your personnel detailed information. This is very, very, very critical critical for safety. Now, please, they don't need to show any order from the front of the car to a relative, they don't have to, they don't need to show they can take you like chicken, you know, like little tiny animal and put that could put you in jail at any time. So your your personal safety and your personal, your privacy is has gone. nothing you can do nothing if you if you have to give that that information to that other world administration administration's to do that. Did that in the past, now military cope, to try to do that the same life the past, in the history light one, the one one the military government did in the past 256 60s. And before 2030 trying to make that rule again. So they're trying to make that regulation. Again, right. So what is the connection between the importance of controlling things at award level, and the training that's currently going on in ethnic areas, it's, it's not only about attending training at the Atlanta area, it's all about the whole movement, you know, people so hiding somewhere focus on it can be their friends, it can be their relatives, it can be someone's someone's stranger who want to help. So if you if they have to actually register, who is staying at their their home and give them personnel detailed information in detail, that they can be arrested at any time. And, you know, then other people, they cannot go and hide at someone's home. So this is, this is, this is one of our very important because psidium people, you know, the IDs to someone like me, I'm also like, I'm not saying at my home, I cannot, if I go back, I will be arrested and killed, they will be killed for sure. And on my team as well. So, therefore, I'm saying here's an if I have to reduce my personal information, then I will be arrested nice, tight, nice date. And I yeah, so what another, that's why like people, they are resisting, not to register, you know, their personal information at the word administration level, and how's that going so far, that military is now forcing for them to register people like who slept in or like, who sleep at my friend's home, how many people are getting in personal information, they are forcing to get that because they have to get that because otherwise they will they will not be able to manage to enter the country and we cannot let it happen, we cannot afford to do that. Because that will that will make us very difficult. So, at the word level or the word level administration, it has to be empty, it has to be anti before, before you know the in terms the government comes in, to see a PhD has to make sure that they can whoever can manage to govern at the word level and musician is going to do what is done. This is such an important level, all the government stuff everything's, you know come from the village level, word level, then township level, district level and national level. That's why the government structures and government governance is actually started from the bottom line. So that borderline have to be empty now, or to see a page or see a big government, new government, we have to take control of that. Whoever can control that level than the sort of the real division between control and freedom or terror and safety. Who ever can control that level than the wind, right? So it's this battle within a battle. I'm wondering also how you're doing I mean, you're under tremendous pressure. You're having to stay away from your home in a place where very few of your friends or family know where you are for safety and you're having to constantly be on the watch and the lookout and to be ready to leave at a moment's notice knowing how high the stakes are in terms of your own personal safety. And you've already experienced personal loss of a friend who was tragically killed in terrible, terrible circumstances. I can't even begin to imagine just on a personal emotional level. How I wouldn't be able to get through a reality like that, while simultaneously also engaging in the number of plans and activities that you in so many like you were doing. So how have you been able to manage this new reality with how terrifying it is? I'm not saying I'm not terrified. I am terrified to. But this, that made me motivated. That made me motivated, we cannot accept this. Things had this thing happening more, we cannot, we cannot afford to do that. But this why this terrifying things motivate me to do more and to do everything I can. So that's why me and my friends actually, actually I see my friends, some are just new friends, actually, with the same spirits. And we met and we talked and we, which was then that horrify me Actually, and cannot sleep at the you know, when, but later, I tried to come down because I have to manage, I have to strategize that I have to advise, I have to give advisors, so therefore, I have to stay calm. How do you do that? How do you do that? How do you calm down in those circumstances? You know, I have my personal hobby. You know, I love poem. I compose poems, and I love painting. So I paint in a couple of even today. Yeah, even today, what do you paint, there are a couple of, you know, I love natural mountains and trees, and also the sometimes I draw the like, three fingers to loop and those kind of things that I already paid, actually, if I have this patient now. And I already wrote the sample code once, or like three or four points as well, when I when I feel stressful. I'm trying to meditate for some time, and I'm trying to paint for example, last last week, it was very stressful, and we were not safe. And I was moving around, as you already know that I would make appointments that I and you know, and I disappear. Again, again. So I was very stressful, then I try to meditate and trying to write a poem, I feel everything I write down and pull in. Okay, well, can you tell us what your poems are about? It's about motivation is about the future. You know, we we got a new friends, we can say, these are, I have a very close coworkers now. And also the we are hoping we were going to have a better future. This is only temporary, this is not permanent, we have to believe that this is permanent. But in order to do so, we have to do everything we can. You can hide, but you cannot stop. You can upset you can feel sorrow. But you have to motivate it. You can't be afraid of this thing. But you cannot afford to lose your hope. That those kind of things. Right. So it sounds like the feelings you've had over these past two months of sorrow of loss of fear of terror, anger of rage, that you're channeling these feelings into motivation for action and getting up and doing something and that your artwork, your painting, your drawing, your poems are also kind of feeding into this motivation that's needed right now. Is that correct? Sure. You're one of my you know, the only thing I have a very, very clear picture of what I'm going to what I'm going to do with my friends after this revolution. And I'm very simple. I want to have some, you know, at the at the place peaceful place with a class, why and why we are here we want to talk and talk about the struggle. And we will who was mine together? I hope everyone's still be alive that time. We've already lost some. Yeah. I hope many people still have that time. Yeah. And how about meditation? I assume you're doing the passionate meditation and what role does that play in your calming process? It is it is very important for me in order to stay focused and in order to stay peaceful in my mind. Basically, you know, I build some time if I feel I'm terrible, especially on a very emotional time, I should not walk I should know, or have a conversation and you know, is the time. It's like 15 or 20 minutes. And meditation doesn't need to be set, actually, you can work and you can, you can later is fine meditations is only focused on your body and also like Breathe in and breathe out. It doesn't need to be said and you know, put your, your, your fingers on your, it doesn't need to be, you know, how to say, only at one place. That's the main, the main themes of the meditation is to focus your body and what's happening in your body, and in your mind, and in your art Institute's everything's in your in your memory.
1:20:47
So
Thurain 1:20:49
it's really helped me to come down from the emotional level. And this is very helpful. It is, I do this one I one, I am very, very, very stressful and emotional, I do this one, I cannot handle myself. This is done much important for me. Normally I can when I'm paid when I when I write a poem is gone. But when I cannot do that, with that level, that is meditate, right. And it sounds like in addition to using meditation as a calming principle and strategy, you're also aware of your mental states. So because of your past practice, if you're in a situation where you just realize, Oh, my mental state is really bad right now. And any action I do any decision I do, because it's arising from my mental state, the action is not also not going to be good. So instead of proceeding with that action, you've developed a certain amount of wisdom to be able to step away and allow that awareness of your mental state in that situation, to realize that your attention, your focus needs to go elsewhere until you can be a little more balanced. Yeah, I always take out of my mental health, because like, it is very important because I have some friends, friends who are in your home, who experience mental disorders and other things like that. So, I also take care of my my colleagues, my friends, will who are working together with me, so we always have, because sometimes you have to take somebody you know, on operations, which is very important. So after having that operation, they are terrified because we are severely and we are not familiar with some job, you know, some jobs are very terrible, and we are not familiar with that. And they got kind of like mental health things. So I always have an accent, okay, please take her as for one or two days, we stay with you have to go for a lot, please take a good enough sleep for one or two day, please have a sample food or wine or something as you have, even though we are not staying at our home, you know, we say, Come on, please enjoy one two hours, you know, we have to go along the way, please turn off your phone, and please, or just talk with me, we can drink wine together, and we can have fun like one one or two hours, or have you know, several hours we've been doing Come on. So those kind of like major offer major operation, then we are we are we are terrifying because we are not we are civilian we are not soldier, you know, some chosen, we are not used to with that center. We risk our life and we are our team, our own ground. So, yeah, this is things like that, for mental health beautiful, that's in the middle of all this tension and terror and concern for safety and everything else that you're able to make time for those better parts of life, even in those conditions of good friendship, conversations, sleep, even if you can get some good food or drink within all of that. So that's, that's really good to hear. I want to change topics again, and go into where we're at in this current movement. And when it started, you guys were doing a lot of CDM and peaceful protests, mass protests, a lot of social media sharing and everything else. And through this time, we're recording this interview in the first week of April. It will be produced sometime after that, but through the time that we're recording, there really hasn't been much outbreak in terms of violence. And still then these non violent principles have still been held for the most part. So where do you think we're at in terms of this non violence and what do you see going forward? I'm seeing in the future there will be more violent people have no option. peoples are forced to be violence now. So people have done everything they can actually, what I can say is like, you know, there will be, of course, civilian, they will not be violent, I can say, but they will be fully support, if there is a unique who will find for the, for example, that, that people are now, the fighters now tend to take in the training, and they will make the strategy and do will take the action. If I'm no role, may gonna be very interesting one may gonna be very interesting. I some things that thing, some, you know, some kind of stuff, or I cannot tell now, but we're going to be very interested in that we'll start from the third week or fourth week of April, then things will be devastating, if military don't go back, if they don't go back, because like, you know, there will be war. And the forests are scared of the towel. And in the towel. There will be people who will have the weapon, the family of the police, a family of the soldier, they will not be safe. If they don't change their action, people when when people will not be violent, but they are some people who got training, they will come back, they will come back for sure. It was start from me that you will see more devastating things. It's all about like politics, and also we will fully obey the order of the situation, other political developments. But I can say, Yeah, what I can say is motivated things will come. Things are preparing people, peoples and I'm preparing, you will see you will see some cars and both peoples are going as a different to prepare for something bigger. You will see more people work now are going out in this month in April, because people are preparing. And what's your personal view on that? Because there are different theories from different people looking at what's happening now. And there's a theory of non violence, that the principles of non violence are extremely important to hold at all costs that once that gets broken, it becomes much harder to gain international support that there terror that can come back on the other side and the kaeleen. And the brutality will be much, much more severe than now. And there are voices that are continuing to call for greater adherence and commitment to non violence even in these most difficult of times, not only for the pacifist ideals, but also for strategic purposes that an argument is made. This is how conflicts of these nature can be one is by sticking to non violence at all costs. And eventually that will win the day out. There are also views that the nonviolent movement has run its course and that we're now seeing greater escalation from the military that will not back down and gone from from trying to stop protests with just batons or tear gas and moving to rubber bullets and then live on your mission. And we're seeing tanks there's been planes, there have been reports of RPGs and belt fed machine guns. So the other argument here is that the non violent movement has run its course and with the escalation we're seeing on the other side, it is only going to continue and be worse and worse and worse than that some type of resistance and standing up is very much needed at this time. These are two Parallel arguments that are going on, and perhaps they're not completely black and white. Where do you stand in your views on where we're at and what needs to happen sometimes people say black and white, but I believe that there is no sustained black and white only. There are a few things black and white, but most of the areas are gray zone. You know, what I'm trying to say is, we are preparing at the same time we are, we are, you know, we are asking international community to a to take action as much as possible. You know, we don't want to die waiting support, we will be waiting at the same time we will be preparing. Very simple, right? We cannot die. While waiting international support, we have to prepare, if we don't get it very simple, that we cannot wait, oh, or our life, we have to wait until certain point before things going go into under the full military to touch it. We had to wait until some point. And we can wait. And we acts the international community before too late to take action before too late. And we will not let it happen to be too late. We will do something before too late. That's why it's a very important, you know, international community happens and support us we can make it shorter. If they are taken so long than the Civil War going to be long. It's only one to one or two, one international community support we can make it shorter. And we cannot and we will not lose so many life. Hundreds of life time we already lose like over 500 nearly 600 will be 1000 I can say. So if international community support of take action very soon that we can we can make it very short. If not, we will go in our way and they're going to take a law that will be devastated. That's why we are asking, we are begging please see our life and do something you know China is totally covering the military government. This military cope. We don't live in that that group. This one we are fighting against against this. We are tagging international community, please do everything as much as you can and effectively. If you help us we can do that. And in a short period, if you take longer, we will lose more life and you will see tragedy. You will see crime against humanity. You will see war cry everyday. You can see it's been 50 or 60 years. We cannot we people in Myanmar We will wait and back until some point what I'm what I want to try to get what I'm trying to say is anytime you can have us but if you lay take an action, there will be more people die on ground. There will be children running under rainy Ray under the ray. No shadow in the forests, no internet. Even now in your moto country, only Wi Fi you can see Wi Fi in just a few super few people getting by fi the whole majority or almost other people don't get internet. What I'm what I am trying to say yeah, what I am trying to say people listening this broadcast is please. I known the international community communities have good minded people, they're willing to help they're doing everything they can and I we know this and I know that and China and Russia are trying to prevent that because they have a good relationship with a military and the China has been helping since the very beginning of their cope. We you know, we we also acts Chinese people, Chinese people on Chinese government, region government. I have a very clear vision between that and the international community. We are now preparing the Civil War gonna come very soon. It's very sure this time gonna be devastating. Not not the same with the past. In the past, only in the forests. Civil War was happening. Not in How even in tal no like fighting against a policeman soldier in town now this time economic difference. There will be war in town as well. Yeah,
Host 1:35:10
that will be devastating. Yeah, we'll be and as I'm listening to this, you're speaking to mainly in international audience not entirely. And I would venture to say that most of that international audience is entirely sympathetic and supportive of the movement that you're currently involved in and wishing for freedom to come. However, you're speaking about an international community of those who are actually in power of things to do and that have influence and being able to actually take action, in some ways that probably most of our listener audience is not unless we have a few politicians or people in legislature somewhere else, United Nations that happen to be listening to this. This is also why I should say, we strongly encourage anyone listening, please share this with everyone in your network, please share it as widely as possible. So that this is heard by as great a number of possible this is literally a matter of life and death and of freedom and terror. So anything that you can do for those that are listening to either contribute with a donation or to just simply share this as widely as possible in your network, especially those who would have any influence and would be connected to those with influence, to be able to do something, stress that in the highest possible terms. That being said, I want to ask you, we do have listeners on here, and most of them are simple people that are not connected to government that are not decision makers that are entirely sympathetic to what you're going through and want you to come out successful. And yet, they're not in positions where they can do big things that would really be supportive. So what can they do that could support you? What if speaking to that international audience now that are listening in their homes or perhaps driving or working out or cooking as people often listen to podcast? What is it that the ordinary citizen in some country as they're listening to it? What is it that they can do to help you right now, there are multiple options you can support, technically, financially, and any any other support network is like that. For example, we if you want to support for protests, you can support for protest. If you want to support for Syrian you can support for Syrian if you want to support from a military training, you can support for military training, if you want to support for the equipment we need that you can support for equipment when there's so many things that we we've been doing, are we now that financially technically. And so if you want to help us, you can go through George and george will be keep in touch with me. And I we can we can have a conversation more in the future. Right, wonderful. So as we wrap up here, you know, we've talked about a number of things that you've experienced the last couple of months and what's been going on in your country. And yet, I'm sure we haven't covered everything because there has just been so much that has been taking place and it's hard to communicate that reality to people that are quite a distance away. So I want to ask you now that you have this platform, now that you have a captive audience that is listening to your views and experiences and everything else. Is there anything else you want to leave that audience with? Is there anything else you want to use this platform for to make sure that you get your views or statements out? Yeah, I would like to conclude that what I was saying especially my perspective and my belief, one there is no future. We still trying to keep our hope.
Thurain 1:39:13
Therefore in order to keep that hope to be alive. For the better futures in Myanmar, for the light for Myanmar, and for the people of Myanmar. Please remember, we always need you always need your support. We are in danger. We are in danger. So please help me out and and also, please stand up for us. I bet you for the people who demo we want to go crazy. Want to live freely. We want to live without fear. without worry, I know worrying, not ordinary worry. appreciate this message and support as well. Our thoughts and our prayers and our meta are with you constantly. This platform is always available for those that are trying to share their voices to the outside world and let them know what's really happening. And you have done some today, courageously and vulnerably. And just thank you for being so open and taking the time to share and sending all of my best wishes for your safety and your success. And thank you so much for being able to come on and talk here with us. I'm very close and humble. Appreciate for the chance, given me the chance for this interview.
Host 1:41:06
As inspiring as it was to hear today's guest, I know from experience that when you're listening from so far away, there can also be a certain kind of helplessness and hearing about the struggle that people like them are now engaged in. Thankfully, we have organized a reliable way for interested listeners to provide valuable assistance to those local communities. All donations will be sent to support the protesters currently resisting the military coup. By taking an active role in helping support the movement, you can ensure that people like today's speaker have even a few more resources to draw on and can manage even another week more in their efforts. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are resisting the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form, currency or transfer method. every cent goes immediately and directly to funding those local communities who need it most. Donations go to support such causes as the civil disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, and the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies. Or if you prefer, you can earmark your donation to go directly to the guests you just heard on today's show. In order to facilitate this donation work, we have registered a new nonprofit called better Burma for this express purpose. Any donation you give on our Insight Myanmar website is now directed to this fund. Alternatively, you can visit our new better Burma website, which is better Burma one word.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause in both websites except credit cards. You can also give the PayPal by going to paypal.me slash better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo, GoFundMe and cash app. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to those respective accounts, or email us at info at better burma.org. In all cases, that's better Burma. One word, spelled b e t t e r bu r Ma. If you would like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration. You've been listening to the Insight Myanmar podcast, we'd appreciate it very much. If you could rate review and or share this podcast, every little bit of feedback helps. You can also subscribe to the Insight Myanmar podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever else you get your podcasts to make sure you don't miss any of our upcoming episodes. If you can't find our feed on your podcast player, please just let us know and we'll ensure it can be offered there in the future. Also, make sure to check out our website for a list of our complete episodes, including additional text videos and other information available at Insight myanmar.org. And I also invite you to take a look at our new nonprofit organization at better burma.org. There's certainly a lot to talk about in this episode, and we'd like to encourage listeners to keep the discussion going. Make a POST request specific questions and join in on discussions currently going on. On the Insight Myanmar podcast Facebook group. You're also most welcome to follow our Facebook, Instagram and Twitter accounts by the same name. If you're not on social media, feel free to message us directly at info at Insight myanmar.org. Or if you'd like to start up a discussion group on another platform, let us know and we can share that form here. Finally, we're open to suggestions about guests or topics for future episodes. So if you have someone or something in mind, please do be in touch. We would like to take this time to thank everyone who made this podcast possible. Currently, our team consists of two sound engineers Mike pink and Martin combs. There's of course Zach Kessler, content collaborator and part time co host, Ken pranskey helps with editing and a special Mongolian volunteer who was asked to remain anonymous does our social media templates in light of the ongoing crisis in Myanmar, a number of volunteers have stepped in to lend a hand as well. And so we'd like to take this time to appreciate their effort and our time of need. And we're always on the lookout for more volunteers during this critical time. So if you'd like to contribute, definitely let us know. We'd also like to thank everyone who has assisted us in arranging for the guests we've interviewed so far. And of course, we send a big thank you to the guests themselves, for agreeing to come on and share such personal powerful stories. Finally, we're immensely grateful for the donors who made this entire thing possible. We want to remind our listeners that the opinions expressed by our guests are their own, and don't necessarily reflect the host or other podcast contributors. Please also note that as we are mainly a volunteer team, we do not have the capacity to fact check our guest interviews. By virtue of being invited on our show, there's a trust that they will be truthful and not misrepresent themselves or others. If you have any concerns about the statements made on this or other shows, please contact us this recording is the exclusive right of Insight Myanmar podcast and may not be used without the expressed written permission of the podcast owner, which includes video, audio written transcripts or excerpts of any episodes. Also not meant to be used for commercial purposes. On the other hand, we're very open to collaboration. So if you have a particular idea in mind for sharing any of our podcasts or podcast related information, please feel free to contact us with your proposal. If you would like to support our mission, we welcome your contribution. During this time of crisis, all donations now go towards supporting the protest movement in Myanmar to our new nonprofit better Burma. You may give by searching better Burma on PayPal, Venmo cash app, GoFundMe and patreon as well as via credit card at better burma.org slash donation. You can also give right on our Insight Myanmar website is all donations given there are directed towards the same fund. And with that, we're off to work on the next show. So see you next episode.
1:49:06
Johnson