Transcript: Episode #71: Keeping the Faith
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Hassan, which appeared on September 12, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
00:13
It is a defense of the people against the Russian aggression of the military. It's a revolution rather than the war.
Host 00:27
I'm really excited to bring you the upcoming interview with a very special guest. You'll hear him discussing all the great and courageous work that he's currently engaged in. And if you feel inspired to help him continue these efforts, please consider making a donation earmarked for his projects. Or feel free to give a general donation that will support the wider movement in Myanmar. Our ongoing support is so helpful and appreciated by the Burmese people during these dark days. Simply go to Insight myanmar.org slash donation contribute today. or stay tuned to the end of the episode to hear more options. Now, let's hear from that guest himself. Not for people again. Good day. I'm really pleased to be joined here by Hassan. Hassan. Welcome to Insight Myanmar podcast and thank you for taking the time to share your story. Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, so let's get in first, a little bit of background about yourself. As far as you're comfortable in sharing, can you talk a bit about your own background, your family background, your education, or biography or whatever you're comfortable in sharing here so we can learn a little bit about you before we start to learn about everything you've been doing this year? Yes.
Hassan 02:57
From myself, I am one of the minority ethnic groups, it's called Come on. Yes. So, we raise just like any other minority peoples, we are very carefully about government before the coup and even before the democracy I was born in military time. So I we suffered a lot. So, we start happy, one democratic time is coming. I just came back from Middle East after I arrived, it was after five years of democracy. So I thought that will be the beginning of the democracy everything will getting miles. So I came back here to start business even now for 15 years. I just came back so when I arrived there, I started travel travels and tools business. And we have current business and I have also even religious travels. We We are from a rich family. My father has well relationship even with my with mylsu before and after. So I'm not I'm not that okay with even with my family. Yes. And because they like you know, my family happy with military. They can do business very well, you know, but it's it's not none of my business but for me. I was I was even in democracy time. I'm not interested in politics anymore. Even in democracy time. I'm just doing my business taking care of my family just doing monthly, weekly. I have I'm helping people's outside young going on inside the uncle. Just like orphanages, yes. After the call, you know, we have a, you know, we have a lot of things that we plan. A lot of businesses for me, is totally broken, you know, I cannot even say in words, it's just like, we woke up from Greek just like this, everything is gone. So, I just, I had, I had my cause was, I'm writing to the foreigners, especially my so my friends are all they all are going back, you know, in a in a month, yes. When they go back, you know, I'm suffering. Even after the cope, I can't do anything. Just like two weeks. I don't know, what should I do about this? Because I didn't imagine that will be happened to us. Especially. So traveling to business is already gone in COVID time. So I start I start planning in you know, just like both it's both parties. Its events. Yes. We are renting, arranging parties. You know, in the beginning of the January my business very get involved even in COVID times I didn't suffer just like any other business, but my business is going very well. So after the cold so I just feeling if we don't find this time, I believe this extremely believed it till now. We if we didn't fight, we have no choice. You know, for me, it's totally fine with notary government. For sure, for sure I can I cannot mention you name. But I know the the military guys I know very well there are some other people's those guys I was doing good business with them before the democracy time. So but you know, especially I cannot I don't want to walk with the corporate with them. You know, if I want only money, money is not future in my belief. I believe this is for my next generation. I want to leave them you know, not only money, they need education, you know, multi times how how minority a I'm a Muslim, how minority people suffering in their hands. You know, when I travel? I was a student but they don't let me bring student personal in my one we travel for studying we have to lie them we are going to build Walk This is why we have to pay tax you know students don't need to pay tax but we have to pay we are more we didn't go we Muslims we are minority peoples we have no they don't allow us to who the student passport at that time. So I don't want my next generation to suffer this again. You know, these stories will repeat I'm sure. However, they promise people's to after one and a half year or one year you know this you know this DNA is will come again. They will never stop you know, they will if you have money back but even if you have money, you cannot you know you cannot be happy. Like other people's you know I cannot explain this in words. But I suffered, I don't want to suffered in my next generation. This is why I'm start fighting, I'm stood helping peoples in protesting times. Just like March, I was supporting after April of April, we will provide things you know, I was even I had the list of money I, a I spent for this revolution, but later on me, I cannot, you know that there is a lot of things I have to do. So, I can't, you know, even at least from I have support, I got support from some of my friends. It's not some it's the only lady you know, I got some support from her. I sold three of my cars, my own cars, I started with my own money, and still still supporting to this resolution or for this, you know, I never even I don't let I support some PDFs. I suppose some, you know, CDM has a lot of cdmos I can see, I can see 1500 cdmos were getting foods to me. But now, you know, everybody is running. It's only left 115 like this.
Host 11:47
So I want to go back to your description of your ethnic minority describe yourself as come in I believe that's ethnic Muslim in Myanmar, can you describe a bit about the kemin ethnicity
Hassan 12:05
their place is located in my my my parents from job to job few EMB islands EMB islands, it's the place those common people stay in tanduay chiaogoo look like do white common people the white tone and some of them are Muslims. And they are mixed sometimes they are mixed. For example, my grandma was Buddhist Buddhist command but she she married to she convert and she married my grandfather. Just like this come on people's Mixed Blood. Yeah. With some kind of angel something like this, but the origin is from our
Host 13:13
Do you know how far back in Myanmar history they go?
Hassan 13:17
the wrong hands Ilham it if you know some Arabic words. There are some boats from our Arabian Arabian margin, our one deal on the last week and they got that islands, rumba, rumba, it's warm that they are they are requesting a mercy as Macias is at home, in home, at home from home, it becomes too rambley something like they like the sound. One of the things that I remember reading is when the crisis came with the ro hinga. That the
Host 13:57
prejudice and the the the just the overall crisis and problem concerning the ro hinga that eventually this started to affect the common Muslim people that were in Myanmar even though the C'mon in the Rohingya as far as my understanding goes, are completely different ethnic people and have very little in common
Hassan 14:21
Yeah, he's correct. But I have no words you know, I know a lot of things about the Hindus because you know in Muslims, Muslims in our can states they are suffering the same level you know, we we we born in Yangon, this is why we we don't we didn't suffer but in our can state Rohingya and other Muslims you know the the given pressure on them, you know those Muslims Yeah, they you know, they they Don't know, even you know, they don't know, command or Ranger know, if they've in one day saw Muslims, they are trading like this, you know, the same level? There is no difference.
Host 15:12
Right, exactly. And that's what I read and that the argument that was made about the Rohingya was then transposed and imposed on the common Muslims, even though their ethnic background and history and origins were completely different. And it was only the religion that was shared.
Hassan 15:28
Yes, yes, it's only about religions, not even not even ethnic groups.
Host 15:35
You speak about having grown up in Myanmar during the military dictatorship, you left the country before the reform started, you were living in the Middle East and then you came back and lived here door during the period of reforms in the 2000 10s. So can you share a bit about what your experience was like, as an ethnic minority as a religious minority as a Come on Muslim? What was it like growing up in a military dictatorship and then when the reform started to happen in a free year, but not completely free, but a free year society started to develop? How did that experience change for you, if at all, with given your background as a minority?
Hassan 16:18
Yes, you know, even if you if you have money, if you if you have money, you can build a good relationships between you and military. We were happy now that not like this, you know, if you have money, if you are a good family, if you have money, you have you can be a very easily to build a good relationship with military at that times, you will be like, you know, they will allow you everything you want. But even this all it's going with money, you know, military guys, they are the only one money if you have money, you will you can do everything, you can you can cross the airport, you can do inside the airport, everything you can bring your gun, but but if you a good hard kind hard person, knowledge person, you will not be happy with them anymore. You know, you because you you are taking other rights, other person rights with your money. At that time, you can happy you know, now now, for example, in Yemen, now, if you have money, you have good relationships, people are suffering dying on the roads, because of lack of oxygen, you know that. But if you have money, if you have good relationship with the military, they will treat you in a good place. You can get oxygen, you know, there's a lot of oxygen in their hands. But how a person you know, good normal person, how can we be happy? How can stay easily, you know, people are suffering something like this situations. I'm not I cannot be happy. This is why I'm fighting not I cannot get an opportunity in military time No, not at all. I can get a very good opportunity. I know the person who knew there may very well but I cannot you know I will not stay I will fight to the end and I will I will leave the country. I cannot stay in like this situations. I cannot you know, I cannot see myself in my next generation, my son, my kids, I cannot see. You know, it's very terrible, very terrible. You know. For example, whenever I came back to my country, every year I came back to four in summer in from the university. That times we have to visit to the Thailand is very, you know, it's example for me. I have to pay tax $100 $200 yearly just attacks. That means we are walk we were walking outside. You know, they are just earning money from the minority. They want money, they didn't see it even in things even in democratic time. They the embassy, they took our votes themselves. We didn't know because they are seeing, you know, minority peoples just like money. Just like pocket. You know, when you visit you every year when we visit to the immigration, we on our hands at $10 or some perfume, something like we have to give them if we didn't give them you know, they didn't know they don't, they don't let you go, you know, they will make problem with you.
Host 20:08
So during this democratic transition period of the 2000 10s, we've heard that for many, especially for more Buddhists, and certainly for others as well, this was a time of improved opportunities and certain kinds of freedoms, speaking as an ethnic and religious minority, and in within your community of others, perhaps unlike you, who didn't have the same connections or privileges or, or money or finances available, was there an improvement in the 2000 10s for people in your community? If so, how did that? How did that benefit our manifest?
Hassan 20:49
It's totally different. It's totally different. Really, you know, after the democratic time, even in things in government, they, they, you know, we can speak, we can talk, yeah, even we are a minority, you know, we are not that afraid, like military time, especially at the airport. It's, it's so, you know, democratic government, if I say, honestly, you know, they are not that perfect, but they are 10 times better than the military and facing government free. This though those five years. Were not that great, but it's acceptable as a human being, you know, they cannot change everything. He I support democratic, totally I support, but not only for NLD. You know, I am not sure, that political person, but I support democratic totally, I support them. This is why after the cope, I started doing what I what I did, yes.
Host 22:05
I think one of the things that you said that some listeners might find surprising is that there are people such as your family background, who are Muslim, but with their background of connections and finances, they are they're able to have very close relationships with the military and with top military leaders. And I think in the news that we hear about some of the anti muslim rhetoric that comes from the military, for sure, from some of the more extremist Buddhist monks. This idea about the that comes from both 969 movement, my thought as well as from in the time that I that they need to protect the country, protect Buddhism, in their from from a Muslim invasion. And so I think hearing all of this in the news, and hearing this rhetoric and this fear tactic, I think that many would find it surprising that those Burmese Muslims, even with money, would have a close relationship with senior military leaders that that that relationship would be possible on either side on the side of the Muslims who have some money given how extreme the anti muslim rhetoric is, and from the military side as well, given this fear, they're always espousing about how they need to protect Buddhism. So can you say a little bit more about this, how this relationship is possible in spite of the last 10 years being in such an increased time of the anti muslim rhetoric and actions that have been taking place?
Hassan 23:35
military, they have no religion. Trust me, they have only money and power. Extremely it's, it's, it's a reason a reason, you know, when they want to make a problem, they put that fire it's like, you know, it's like a fire when they want to, oh, a place to make a problem. They send those peoples they make problem but you know, they are totally fine. They are totally okay even even before 10 years ago, and now they are very okay with who has money yeah, in Military Times money is everything. Man is money is the money money is everything. Yes. Yes. I can say money is everything. If you have money, you know, they don't know you or Muslims are my minority. Are they okay? They will tell you before I remember at once, when they make a problem they call to my father. They go they told me mister mister saw there is there will be some problem. You have to leave just 20 days outside the country. After that, they start firing and making problems in the city. Yeah, just like that. You know, even they are protecting the apartness Yeah, but the problems in every government even in democratic time, normal people are suffering. Sure. Yeah. Even democratic time military time after the coop now till till now in normal people's you know, they are they have to suffer everything. But I'm just wonder now on the ground, normal people be fighting not the premium cost people what when we got democracy the Premium Plus people, they are getting benefit, not normal people. Yeah, yeah, no, you know, I know some delivery guys, I was supporting to them, you know, the food delivery guys. They have no money. The only joy the PDF? They are, they were, they were asking me to support them. I just, I was support, but I helped them. You know, some, some psidium. Man, his wife is pregnant. You know, it's such emotional this a little bit. His wife is pregnant. But he CDM from railways. He leave his wife, his pregnant wife enjoying the PDF? I don't see him. Why are you why you you leave your wife pregnant? Wife? Why you? He answered me? If I lost my wife, and son, this is only for my family loss. You know, they believe this is why I'm a blaming a new GE from here. They believe even they have to, you know, they are ready to lost the family. You know, after my family loss, he believed he answer me if even my personal loss is nothing to national laws. But you know, those rayville workers, they have just a dream. Nothing is actual real D there is no reality they fight for nothing. Even there is no support from a new eg or, you know, there are a lot of cdms they are suffering. You know, this is out of the we didn't arrive yet. But I'm telling this now. Even health workers, you know, today I cross from the housing, the housing was perfect. They have you know, government housing is a flat now they are hiding inside the inside the forest. Nothing, no one can stay there. There is no electricity. I was visiting time them, you know, in a in a day, half day will take five hours to get to them. They are hiding the place, you know, they can stay middle of the city in a good place. But I don't know why the you know, if I know this reality, I'm not that happy with a new GE or on this government also, you know, the the ignoring them. Terribly ignoring ignoring them. I will take my responsibility. My words. This is not you know, you if you can't take your responsibility, you don't give people fake promises. You know, because of the opposition. They destroy those family. Some people's are pregnant. Some you know, some need some some people need oxygen everyday. You know they are happy to to sacrifice for those people. But I'm not sure when they when they will. They will tell about them all in not. Right.
Host 29:45
Right. So you're painting this picture of all of the little struggles that are going on to make the massive struggles of the entire country you're painting a picture on the ground of those people. That you're supporting of the reality of their lives of their courage and their sacrifices and what they're facing. And also talking about some of the big picture elements of energy and the military and the different communities and such. So looking at that all together, I'll ask you a somewhat impossible question, but I'm sure it's one you've thought about quite a bit, what will it take for the people to win at this point?
Hassan 30:24
We need international support. Really, we need weapons, we need army that time we need you we, you know, I, you know, I will tell honestly, and that, you know, that will be practically and you Jean never will themselves. Never, never did, they never will. If we are going with them. It's just a fact. But if we want to when we need international support, you know, I visited the US I visited I visited to them, you know, I cannot mention I visited two places inside the army, inside the PDFs with the with the leaders, I was with them. But they cannot they cannot fight back with mail. They, you know, they want they want you know, they have energy, they have everything. They have young armies. But if I say truly, if I say honestly with they cannot, because you know, they cannot it's happened in young gone, but I don't want to happen again. Indian gone. We were fighting in lighter. And at times of the day, I was with them. Now, yeah, I was in light I was with the
Host 32:00
leaders. Or what was that experience? Like? That was a very intense a couple of days there.
Hassan 32:05
Yeah. I did the item. Remember at 930 I was with them with the leaders. They have security team. They bring us to the place. I think it's about four motorbikes bring us to the place, we were given some charity, some foods to them, we were discussing with them to support them and that time, but we were discussing about an hour and then the call they got a phone call. There are a lot of military trucks are coming on the bridge, they will worry about us. So I just came back that day. If I lay 10 minutes, I was with them. I cannot cross the after two days, till after one weeks, not because you know, I saw I saw the I saw the trucks are going other side of the roads. I was on opposite sides. Yeah. Did they start blocking I saw when I left the bridge, they start blocked bridge. And then I saw on the news after an hours there are the kill a lot of people's the shooting a lot of people's on sites that areas later on. I remember the from the leaders five killed were killed by Khan. And they also the run to the another place. They joined the PDF. Yes.
Host 33:46
So you're painting a picture that according to your experience on this terrible day and link, they are looking at the different options of the iOS and the PDFs and such if you are imagining some kind of armed conflict in some form between the people in the military, you don't believe there's any chance of success without international support? Is that correct?
Hassan 34:10
It's correct. You know, do you do it's not necessary to terror? Do you know terrorists?
Host 34:18
Yes, terror cards.
Hassan 34:20
Yeah, it's not necessary to see the terrorists. Yeah, we can fight back them because you know, I can say your democratic to be practical, is it's very far You know, if we are waiting to win ourselves, you know, it will take at least if possibility is coming. It will take one year. But even one year it's not possible. You don't find if you go to the Shan state. If you you will see a lot of pupils are staying like normal. You know, we are fighting here only in K and kutchi. Even some mayor in Shan state, they don't believe this is this. It's all about Burmese people. You know? Yeah. Because one day are dying. We was telling them last year, we were telling, before two years, we were we were telling about the Ranger who are ignoring the whole country against Ranger against the truth.
Host 35:35
Right, right.
Hassan 35:35
Yeah. Now we are suffering like the wood, you know, the, it's called karma. In in Buddhism, you know, what we are suffering what we did before.
Host 35:50
So, you see a lack of unity right now.
Hassan 35:53
Yes, yes. It's, you know, any energy is just calling much Chi and Qi and you only you're fighting with them, but some PDF, you know, we we cannot consider, consider just a small you know, even I can see, if we win, there's another problems too. You know, a lot of people want position to in amongst the PDF, they will suffer too, you know, this is why international help is is the solution. It's a very good solution, because, you know, even nujs raises them. So, where is it?
Host 36:42
In what way do you find
Hassan 36:45
Yeah, you know, if you if you want, if you see in the India, India groups in the government, they cannot put one Rohingya guy or one minority men and one by just only one person, give me an example. They cannot. They cannot because, you know, in Buddhist peoples also they have, they believe themselves, they're superior than the other ethnic groups, they have also they have their own problems. This is why this is why I, I believe, if, if we have to when we need international support, because they will follow the international rules.
Host 37:35
So, when you talk about needing international support what does that look like for you? It's international support coming from what sectors and support in what way
Hassan 37:46
but we need only in army RDP? Yes, yes, yes, I remember when I last times in Easy there is in railway station. I was visited that times in protesting time, I was supporting cdms an insane day because you know, people believe you know, it's it's not a dreaming it's it's really the we that we can solve this problem but I'm sure also they will not be are not coming.
Host 38:28
That that was gonna be my next question for you. Where do you think we're at in terms of actually getting support from international actors? I understand you saying that. You feel this is the most critical thing and urgent thing in order for the people to be assured victory. But do you have any knowledge of how those talks or the possibilities are going of actually getting the support that you feel you need?
Hassan 38:58
Yeah, I told you they are not coming. So what to do yeah, they're not coming this so this is why you know there is no idea and Julie there is a proper way you know, we are just like just like sailing you know, we have no so we don't know where we go where we should go. We just started sailing with fake promises at the beginning. You know, everybody thinks Oh, they will become they will become they will nobody is coming. I saw I found that rakes in will walkers and cdms Yeah, they are suffering now. You know, it's not a one month two months problem. You know, the they have to rent the house. Even inside the Jungle they need they need to rent a house. Yeah, I know some people's they're going you know, some kids, they had broken the alert the are the hands, you know, they have to come monthly they have to pay at least 30,000 imager for current for taxi, you know that is a really big amount for them in the situation like this Sure. Yeah. So, so when we will victory we will win when they don't know. But you know, they started without thinking this is what they thought energy they will support their lifting. The there is CDM CDM support lifting our name just the giving list. I hooked them you know, I was long time supported to do to them. I made some interview with them also even even I arcs when I got a chance to energy. I will with one of my friends with how we a to salsa. Why you you know they they took money a this to cdms money. They were collecting funding fundraising for the Navy workers and cdms now I don't know where it's going you know, you you they have no right to take what they want because they they named with CDM support.
Host 41:47
So if there was something you could do to influence policy or direction in the end Yuji for them to be more effective. What would you like to see them be doing that they're not now?
Hassan 42:02
Yeah, I eat the the the board some weapons with their CDs money is not to really perfect. You know, I don't believe they have no right to do this. You know, they even people give them for the CDM support. They have to use this money for cerium support as the promises to the cdms to give the salary. No, no cdmos are suffering for foods not a salary. They have no money for foods. Even now. They are suffering from COVID. You agree? They have no money. They have nothing to buy. Okay, if you even if you want to give them food, they are afraid to accept from you. They don't they don't realize No, you are the informer or not even I am worried. I don't know. If I don't know someone, I cannot take even money. Because some some information are coming from fundraising. Really, really.
Host 43:11
And then when those informers are collecting money and trying to give those donations to people in need, if recipients collect those donations, are they
Hassan 43:22
then in trouble? Of course, they you know, they are terrible. They are punishing, punishing to the to like people like us, and cdms when they got anything, this is why CDM is afraid set from any place.
Host 43:39
Yeah, that's terrible. So that because there's military and formers and sympathizers that are giving fake donations to people on CDM and then arresting them and worse, that is depriving CD, embers of collecting actual donations because they have to be always afraid and on edge that they can collect that.
Hassan 44:00
And let me tell you something, one of my friends, one of my friend, his wife, his wife, we're collecting helping just just small things to CDM cdmos in our quarters, yes, but she she was pregnant, but the informers to about her to the military, she was a PDF, he was fundraising for weapons, something like this, you know informasi are so terrible in Yangon or in Myanmar. Now these situations, you know, I can see 90% of people were jailed because of the informers.
Host 44:46
So what is being done about that?
Hassan 44:49
No, they are not they are talking about you. Nothing, you know, they they want no closer to the military. This is why they are talking about the supporters. All right, very long things, you know, lucky. Like, you know, she she chilled for three years. That lady, she was just helping foods to cdms nothing else. But one the one day the informants informed about her. She was PDF leader. She was real fundraising and buying weapons, something like this big pig. You know, it's even they can charge her dead.
Host 45:36
Right so then what has been done to protect from informers, what is the response from the people given this damage?
Hassan 45:44
I this, you know, you, you have to height. If you are not famous, you can do a lot of things in Myanmar. But if you get him famous around. Yeah, if you, you know, everything secretly you have to do, you know, even though all most of the problems are coming from fundraising, I see. Yeah, if the informer found out about you, you know, they're there, you know, you have only 10 millions jet. What they will inform about you 100 million chips. So the military coming to you to get the money from you.
Host 46:29
So has there been any effort to try to stop these informers?
Hassan 46:37
There is two ways. pdf, start killing them. As you know, and keep secretly everything you are doing in Myanmar. Just keep secretly if you are not famous, you can do a lot of things. But I have one option that was doing, I'm moving around England, it's good. It's a good way you have to stay in a place. Nobody knew about you. You have to choose the good places. Yes. There is no neighbor. neighborhood is a problem also.
Host 47:14
So you mentioned that one way to stay safe is not to be famous to do a lot of great work without being known. So you're obviously doing a lot of great work. You're supporting a lot of people on CDM and people that have needs of medicine COVID, etc. Do you feel that you have run the risk of becoming famous? How exposed Do you feel you are?
Hassan 47:37
I'm walking alone? Yeah, always. I am using some people's I'm choosing I'm just letting them know, a part of my project. I never see anyone. The whole project. Even my family, you know, it's not necessary to mention, you know, so I did what I did, I can see after my victory. Not now. I believe that. So I can do a lot of things. alone. Yes, this is my I think this is what I'm hiding. And I'm doing a lot of things even I was doing. I was going to tools area, and it's a red area. No people are shooting on site. At that time, I'm just moving alone with my motorbike. Yes. Um, I was choosing the forest. Yes, I was going along.
Host 48:42
So you feel relatively unknown, not gathering attention to be able to keep doing the activities that you're involved in. Yeah. Right. And we should mention that for listeners that want to support your work that we do have a nonprofit better Burma, where any donations can go with your cause earmarked and we can get whatever donations we receive directly to you and we have given donations before through our nonprofit to support your work. So definitely want to encourage listeners that are able to give you more funds to work with to support people in CDM food and medicine and all the other great work that you're doing.
Hassan 49:23
Yeah, totally. We are suffering now, these days. medicines and foods, if you can suppose you know just like in Shan state, there are a lot of flooding. I think you can get food I will send you photos too. There are some people are suffering and also because of the flooding. You know they cannot go to the villages to buy some foods. Yes. Also in Yangon. Allah will will I will plan you know, I was a little bit sick and live from the next week, I will try my best to support to buy the positive patients to buy some foods for them. And some medicine because you know, it's not that easy to buy a medicine these days.
Host 50:24
Yes. Right. You. You mentioned that you were just getting over your own sickness. I believe that you're recovering from the Coronavirus. Is that right? Yes. Yeah. And so you're improving now? Yeah. Yeah. How bad was your, your condition and being infected. And I should mention too, I'm so sorry to hear that you've had to go through this sickness with everything else you're doing and had to go through recovery. We've had to delay our interview, to give you more time to be able to rest up and to heal. And even during this interview, I know that you're still struggling with caffeine. So how is your condition now? And how have you been the past week?
Hassan 51:08
It was so terrible. You know, I am I have money. I have volunteers supporting me. Even this other times in my bed. I just start thinking how will be possible to survive those normal people? You know not? I cannot imagine there's some people's are dying. You know, couples, couples are dying. Father and son are dying inside the home. Nobody know about them. Some people's their, you know, they are dying in beside of them. There are some acts. You know, they are surviving. To try. They were trying I'm sure. You know, we, you know, we we go we go low. We Luckily, we have people supporting me, you know, giving me medicines. I have some doctors. I know them. They were volunteering me. Yeah, they were calling me every day. They are giving me they're giving me good medicines. They I have volunteer, they are buying for me food. And they are bringing the data to the to my budget One, two. So this is why I survive. You know, but it's not that easy. From to survive from COVID. At that time, I decided I decided to have those COVID patients, you know, they need our help. This is why I will I will start buying I have also meeting our plan. I'm planning Yes, I'm taking because dogs, some doctors, my volunteer doctors, and they told me to steer legs one week more, but I will plan from my home from today. From tomorrow Sorry, I will start buying some medicines. I was because you know a lot of difficulties are coming in Yangon. Even you know some policy demands we cannot buy. Yeah, these days. So I'm I luckily, I bought a lot of medicine before a little bit earlier. Yeah. When I was in bed, I got a lot of medicines too. So these medicines, I will try my best with my team. Some doctors, they will they do supporting me. Also, I will support some vegetables, fruits, some fresh foods. Yeah, they need some instead of vitamin C, I will I will bind for them some foods. That is the same level of vitamin C. Yeah, I will try you know, so people are worrying about oxygens. I will try some options. You knows I cannot say now. But you know when I walk I Oh, we got solutions for every problems. So I believe that we can support them. I really believe.
Host 54:09
So at this time, you're still recovering from the Coronavirus. And I think this also highlights to listeners just how urgent this whole topic is in this crisis that it's now after midnight and your time and you're still recovering yourself. And yet you're making time to have this interview to get your voice out there to share the story of what's happening so that more around the world can understand and support and looking at the wider COVID crisis raging right now in Myanmar and in Yangon in the cities. What can you tell us about how bad it is there now and how much worse it's looking to get?
Hassan 54:47
Yeah, my grandfather passed away. Last week, I'm sorry. Yeah, last week. My father called me there are 2000 dead bodies. The same day. So, oh peoples are not trust military a player COVID center. So this is this is the problem, you know, one of the peoples are not trust to the government, and they are trying to cue themselves in the inside the home without any instructions without any just trying to take some paracetamol they are trying their best. You know, it's it's really was it really was you know, you have to face COVID good would you experience doctor? Even not? I don't think even nurses can do that. So I believe when I start I will start with tele a tele medicine, I will start with mobile medicine. Yeah, well medicines, I mean, I put the doctors inside the one vehicle with the medicine, they will visit the patients. But I have to stay with that I have to stay inside the homes one week.
Host 56:12
Right? Right, I want to get back to something that you were saying a bit earlier about the activities that you're supporting. On the one hand, you've spoken about supporting CDM ers, you mentioned the number of 1500 people on CDM that you've personally been supporting, you're kind of traveling all over the city and outside the city yourself to be able to support this movement and these people that are in such dire condition now. And this is really a one of the purest forms of nonviolent resistance to the takeover that we've seen. And on the other hand, you've also spoken about supporting the local PDF groups wanting international support in terms of arms to be able to better resist. And so these are kind of two opposing ends of the possible response to by the people to the coup and to trying to secure their freedom back, I don't mean to suggest that they're opposite because they can be complimentary in some way. But I wanted to get your thoughts on the best approach in from the people at this time in securing their freedom. In the first couple of months, we saw protests that were really non violent from top to bottom, when the military started using live ammunition and killing people just in the head in broad daylight. That alerted everyone to the fact that these massive protests could no longer happen. And they were no longer safe. And we had the rise of PDF and the uwg networks and things of that nature. So as you're looking at the current moment, and you're looking at the non violent response and the violent response, where do you see these fitting together? What do you see as necessary at this time for people to properly resist and to ultimately be successful? The only ways we have to fight and what do you mean by fight that can mean a lot of things.
Hassan 58:18
We want to we're just like Chi catching people, if it's coming from you know, they don't they cannot know theory, they you know, they have a lot of experience with the war and would kill him people and we you know, we people, we don't know how to kill an animal sir. So, we are just like, you know, primary a students and in the level in the war situations. So, but if we if we are optimistic, we have to be together and cdmos uno has to fight in cdms it's really mean to the government, they are no they cannot to be normal because of the CDM but the sadly cdms some I can say 70% 60% they are coming back because of the situations and the we we have to we can rely on PDF movements just like attacking on the on them on the station on the police stations you know even they are suffering you know for because of the PDF. But in Yangon is not that effect then manly, manly is no better young before this COVID young Moving, improving well, but with the COVID, we didn't hear some boom plus or some attacking these days, maybe because of the people busy with the COVID. But if we fight together, if we if I say fighting, attacking, attacking on the military, what we have with everything we have, you know, we have to find from, we have to find from even from business, you know, we go from me, for me, I never I never rent to the military, any vehicle, they come to me to rent some vehicles, just like a double cup. So I refuse them, you know, just like this, we can support like an like a business. And the end, we cannot fight without weapons. This is the this is the best solutions to fight them, at least with the same level of weapons.
Host 1:01:04
So you don't think there's really any possibility of the people achieving a victory through nonviolent means at this point? It sounds like you feel that an armed conflict with weapons with violence is the only chance that the people have to Tobin, is that correct?
Hassan 1:01:24
Yes, yes. Because, you know, our enemies are not human beings. They have no religions, they have no mercy. Even they have no hurt. They have no family even trust me. Yes. Even if we win, you know, we don't we cannot use this army to protect us. Someday, they will bite us, like the grandfather.
Host 1:01:51
Right? How may I ask, how did you come to that conclusion? Because in the early days of the protest, especially in February and March, there were strong feelings by many of trying to nonviolent approach, having many in the streets encouraging defections, having conversations with police, and many we're hoping and trying for a nonviolent solution. So for you personally, did you hold that hope in February and March? Or were you not under that illusion? Ever? From the very start? Did you believe that violence would ultimately be necessary? Or if you did support non the non violence approach at first, what eventually changed you and shifted your thoughts on that?
Hassan 1:02:34
I never believe we will win without without non violence. I never believe Yes. I never believe because I know them. I know this. They have no mercy. They were just waiting. In February, they are learning about how to attack people not there. They are worrying to kill us. No, they are planning. You know, at that time, the plan very well. They can separate peoples in a few weeks. They were they were planning, you know, events. I know some, you know, I know some policies, they informed me to stay away from the people, you know, they are waiting for the deer just learning. They are not afraid in people. And if you don't, they those military guys, they never afraid. They never afraid, you know, when when they afraid when they lose, they will come crying. They are begging you, on you in your feet. And they are crying you and then they will try to kill you from the back.
Host 1:03:44
So from February 1 on your side, you felt from the very beginning, the only way that this coup is going to be stopped is through a force of violence on the side of the people.
Hassan 1:03:56
Yes, I was hoping out to be false.
Host 1:03:59
And that's Yeah, that's right. So the counter response to that, that we've heard is that there's a concern that if the people start showing more violence, and there's more widespread attacks across the country, that kind of terrorist state will develop that you'll have all kinds of violence that will be enacted by non state actors that are not under the jurisdiction of anyone or anything, and that eventually, the entire country will just burn and end up being something like a Syria that's been the counter criticism from outside of the country and encouraging people to stick to a more non violent attitude and and thereby gain wider international support and that once there is greater violence among the people that's also going to start to erode some of the international support and seeing that violence is coming from both sides. So I'm sure you've heard this criticism before. What are your thoughts on This
Hassan 1:05:01
is really good question brother. about Syria, if we compare our situations with the Syria, it's, we have trusted government. You know, we have trusted government, people trust, you know, if we win, if we win if democratic if, if the lady, she wins, she leaves, if she wins, the next day, if she sees something, people will listen, it's really different. There's with the CEO and other countries, Iraq, and other country, you know, we, it trust, everything is going to trust. You know, if you are a kingdom, if you are a democracy, everything is going back to if you you know, if we compare with Syria, Syria, people do not trust the government, Iraq, also, this is why they are suffering a lot. I know, Iraq situations, you know, some of my friends, they lost their home till today, they didn't get they're still renting home, because of the criticism, this war, but we believe, if the international support coming, people will help themselves, you know, people are ready to give the money. If they, you know, really, really, they have, you know, they are really brave, they are just waiting.
Host 1:06:35
But it's been six months, and they're still waiting, and there's no sign that that's gonna change. It did.
Hassan 1:06:39
This is why I, I was hoping the article versus those we have to stop this out to be about this. This is just a dreaming. I know. Just, but there is no possibility we we have to find a solution. But you know, for me, I'm not that perfect in violence, violence, towards violence. Just I'm I was helping to the PDF to family. I did you know, everybody has, you know, doctors have doubts. You know, I'm a businessman. I can support from the money side. I can support them transportations. I can taking care of the family. Yeah, this is my ability. But you know, yeah, I have not that strong to, to, to take a weapons I have no, I'm not that smart in that fields. This is why if you asked me about the siege weapons and something like this, I can give you a good answer.
Host 1:07:46
Sure. And even those in the PDF, it should be mentioned, no one is coming from that background. No one is coming from any kind of background and knowing anything about violence, or weapons or tactics or anything else, even those that are choosing to join some kind of defense force or uwg network. Everyone is doing that with having to learn an entirely new set of skills that their background life most likely did not prepare them for it anyway.
Hassan 1:08:14
I got a phone call from one of the PDFs. I was supporting his family. He you know, they are relying on energy. This is the big problem for them. Also, yeah, they were relying on general energy sending them the weapons, energy bring some international support something like this, you know, I cannot say them is not possible. You know, I just say yes, yes. Yes. It's a we hope so. But, you know, just like these fake promises. Sometimes, you know, break some families from some people's hopes. I'm just worried it's happened. I'm just waiting for PDF, just like happen in cdms you know, CDM was in February March, I remember under times energy is repeating we will be we are we are we are arranging to give you salary. We are arranging arranging arranging after the after the April or May during got nothing till today, during and nothing if it is happened to the PDF, you know, CDM is not that big problem. If you compare to the PDF, PDF, they cannot come back. They have to stay the whole life in the forest. I'm so worried it happens in ADA, some students these the the stuck on the A side before us. Because of the fake promises. I'm really worried about the PDFs. These things happen, will happen because of the energy.
Host 1:10:05
I want to shift over to the other side, we're talking about the people for quite some time and talk a little about the military. And you've already given some really fascinating insight into what drives the military being, you know, money and power, obviously. And I think that comes as no surprise to many people. But because of your family's proximity to senior military leaders, you might have more insight into their psychology into why they're doing, what they're doing, and how they feel about it. So you know, one of the big questions has been, why was the coup initiated when the military was already in such a good place? And since the coup has been initiated? I think one of the big questions is what is the feeling inside the military? Have you been able to gain any understanding among ordinary soldiers or perhaps people higher up? How are they feeling right now as we're going into a half a year since the coup was initiated? How are they feeling about what what position they're being placed in and their general morale?
Hassan 1:11:10
I have a good answer for you. Because I cannot mention the name. The one who, who trust who trusted and closer to me online. I asked him He's my master. I asked him before. Before two weeks, yes. Yeah. Hi. Beginning of this, this month. Yes. I oxime. Master What should I do about the business? He told me he is he's hiding. He's hiding in a place he at and to me he if we win yet? They don't believe they cannot. You know, they are still in 5050. Yes, they are. They're in very big dub. To be win. Yes, he answer me. We are not stable yet. After oxime about the business, so he asked me No, we are not stable yet. We didn't win yet. Yeah, he they believe they didn't win yet. After the world after we win, she he answered me like this. After we went, come and meet me. Now I'm hiding in a place. Just same conversation he asked me. So other times, I was happy. Yeah, they feed you know, just like him. His personality. believe they're still struggling. Yeah, that means we can we can win also. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Host 1:12:50
Right, and what do you feel about the general morale? What are you hearing about the general feeling among soldiers and as we're going into six months protracted conflict, where they're still having to, they're still everyday involved in having to, you know, engage in what can't be a very pleasant operation.
Hassan 1:13:13
This male line is crazy. You know, even if he knew the truth, he will he will never accept. Trust me, he will put the whole army in a dangerous situation. He will die also, he's crazy. clingy, you know, the You don't look His face is really crazy, man. So he don't he don't care. You know, you don't think he will scare? No, he don't care. He will die on the field. Just like my mind conversation. This. Yeah. He's a crazy,
Host 1:13:53
I agree with you and then I think the questions come Well, the soldiers and the generals die alongside him
Hassan 1:14:02
you know, the, I can say this, military DNA is like this, you know, they have no difference may online or also, if melodyne they will believe also and this is why I told you, the whole army, we have to burn in a place. We never trust you know, we we we cannot trust those kinds of people's This is their DNA. You know, dogs, dogs are biting. Why we cannot say why are they biting? No, this is their DNA here yet the same thing. This military is their DNA is a betraying you know killing people's. You know the the saw at once, when they come in, in this time. In this time. They are asking people's ways our enemy they are Looking peoples is enemy. They are looking protectors, enemy, the enemy. They don't know. This is why, you know, when they come they, you know, they believe those protesters are the enemy, they took their phones, they be their bidding the taking the everything belongs. So students here they are taking like this day, they feel free, you know they are taking from the enemies, not from people they believe like this.
Host 1:15:32
Right. So are you describing more the upper leadership and senior generals? Or do you think this is all the way down to the bottom as well. And the reason I'm asking this is this relates to defection? Do you think that there is any possibility that as this madness draws on longer and longer, that there can be a sizable portion of soldiers in the military even at lower ranks, who just decided to stop following orders and change sides or at least run away and refuse to engage anymore?
Hassan 1:16:06
lower ranks people, maybe they will change the other side. But higher ranks people's, you know, the one they feel for example, when they feel any dangerous things in higher ranks people's they put the whole family in jail in a place in a secret place there. You know, they cannot move around. For example. terashima do you know? Yeah, he's one of the one of the senior of thinking Yes. This is this schwimer family. The whole family's in, in just like jail they put you know, they put in one land house, the whole family and they are watching them they cannot move getting outside because he is the higher ranks. military guy also. Yeah, this is why you know, so he's watching me online himself. He's not that safe. He you know, for example, he is watching so when and some other higher ranks person if you feel some dope he put them in jail. He did. After the coop I remember there are some big changing three or four positions to change.
Host 1:17:34
Right. So what do you think the chances might be for some defection to take place at some level as this drags on further and further and soldiers and their and their families are getting increasingly unhappy?
Hassan 1:17:47
No. Just only my eyes point of view is is not possible just like happened in Turkey. You know? The difference between Turkey army and Yama army is religion. To the army, they have religion. They those military army, they have no religion. So you know, we cannot hope good deeds from them. Never. They can kill any time even mocks monks they can kill. Yeah, they have no allegiance. Trust me they can stole the money from shooter gone. What's your What do you want from them? They have no religion. So there's no religion? Do no, we cannot say even, you know they can kill the family too. They have no parents. Yeah, they have no family. They have only they have just getting to the army.
Host 1:18:55
So you're painting a really depressing picture of a military that does not have any humanity to appeal to does not have any religious or moral ethics that you feel personally. defection is not very likely. And many other families are held hostage that there's not going to be much greater support than what we're seeing from the international community. And so the only thing that's left in your estimation is just a bloody terrible conflict, led by an uprising of the people. It seems like that's the picture that you're painting in front of us.
Hassan 1:19:33
Of course, of course, even if you know if I can. If I'm smart in English, I can give you more good you know, imagination could good point of view about this military. You're more than my words. I told you. Yeah.
Host 1:19:57
So this might be some more Have a silly question. But with this depressing view that we've painted, and this belief of yours that only a real armed aggression on the part of the people coming at one time across the country is what's going to bring freedom. With this view in mind, How you feeling? Where does that leave you emotionally?
Hassan 1:20:22
I'm not accepting, just I'm trying to solve, trying to cooperate with this those peoples. You know, if I'm not around, so we, we will win. But I'm not sure how will we win. But I will try my best. I'm always telling this words that make me a stronger and stronger. So whenever I got a problems, so I will try my best. So we will win. But still, we have to fight. I think I cannot tell more, more than this, you know.
Host 1:21:11
So do you feel numb? Yes. Yeah. So there's like a lack of feeling there's like a numbness in terms of perhaps having time to process anything emotional right now, would that be correct?
Hassan 1:21:26
Yes. Is You know, sometimes, you know, we fight these days. I'm also I'm feeling sick. Maybe this is also I'm feeling some depression to you. Because a long time, I cannot support. It's beginning of this month, every beginning of the month, I was supporting my cdmos this month, I I didn't visit to them. That made me a lot of depression. And also that people are suffering outside the jungle. It's so terrible. You know, even arrested. Yesterday, five doctors were arrested. Right? Who here who are curing the COVID? person? So it's really difficult, you know, like us, moving around the city cities? Yes. Even they don't, you know, when they see you, for example, for me, I have license, I took license for many minimum. And this is why I'm bringing I'ma bring it sometimes they are they were asking me? Where are going? What is these items? Are you going for support? CDM? Sir, or support PDF like this, they were asking me. But fortunately, I had lysing either idolising. So minimate here, it's a way if we work, if like NGOs, you know, they need problems of the peoples. They are taking a lot of volunteers. You know, that makes sense. You know, they want the saw to three people's young people's there, they are very happy to who catch them. So I suggest, like us, NGOs to work, you know, very less people just was sometimes if you are enough, one guy, say you have to walk alone. It's no better because some teenagers, they are happy to post in Facebook to be famous. You know, because of them. A lot of people are suffering. Just like five doctors case is also like this, you know, sometimes infamous, they are getting new from the close people from you. Yeah.
Host 1:23:58
Yeah. And as you're in the middle of all of this, it can be hard to process what you're actually going through, because you just have to keep on and keep active and what actually needs to be done, I imagine.
Hassan 1:24:10
Yeah, you know, when I feel depression, I just got a phone call from cdmos. It makes me a lot of energy. There was only asking me, so we need you. That's that sentence. It's really energy to me. That's really mean to me. Yes.
Host 1:24:32
Yeah, that's great. And I'm sure just as they give you energy, this conversation with you was giving some of our listeners energy in terms of all the work that you were doing and your belief and your passion. And that's what we're trying to do on this platform to be able to have these conversations to spread awareness to gain support and understand better what's actually going on how it feels at this moment throughout these six months and as we continue on dealing with this terrible situation. On this terror state that's developed.
Hassan 1:25:02
If I say honestly, it's not from me. I'm always telling this to them also it just Almighty God. Not from me. I'm just a reason to help him. Help them. Yes.
Host 1:25:17
So do you feel your religious faith has been guiding your work? Of course it's 100% Can you say a bit more about that?
Hassan 1:25:27
Yeah my because of this I'm surviving. I believe this because in my religion you know, if you keep secret a secret charities move better than the announced peoples and showing people's you know, it's in my religion, if you give charity secretly, even if your right hand, right hand is giving charity left hands doesn't know this. This is my this is the best charity. Yeah, I'm keeping like this. This is why maybe I'm surviving. I never post on Facebook. I never tell even my parents they don't know about me. Even my relatives they don't know about me.
Host 1:26:21
So much of the work you're doing in supporting these 1500 CDM ORS is based on your religious faith and belief.
Hassan 1:26:29
No, no, this is a this is a this is our freedom. This is our futures. This is not religious things. This is human being from things that I never look a person with the religion even even I can guarantee I give non Muslims more than more more than Muslims because you know a lot of people's are suffering are non Muslims in front of me. I can say 98% is non non Muslims you know it's not about it's not about religion, but keeping secret doing good deeds. It's about religion after I died I got I would get my good deeds in Almighty God just only things but when you want to you know it's 99% it's non Muslims there is no CDs even I never give I remember I can guarantee myself even in front of my god I never give his Muslims I never give the ball I never give even I don't know they're I'm not instructing the religion I never asked them their religion I'm asking Are you city ama wishes wishes your date? Yeah, which department I work in this is the whole my interesting.
Host 1:27:53
And so, do you feel a sense of unity now among the people that whatever their background happens to be whatever their ethnic and religious identity that there's a sense of unity right now?
Hassan 1:28:05
Yes. First of all, we are we are taking back our freedom, this is why we all people, not only me, we all people believe religion is not separating us Indian gun or Indian gun specially. Now, this third understanding, you know, before the times it really was they are looking for Muslims, they are looking for Christians even they are telling other religion or they are using this term other religion. So, they saw themselves Burmese is a Buddhist superior than the other religion, this is why they are selling other religion and Buddhists here but now it's really great because of this multi coat people God unit unity you know, simpler form and Muslims community and even other community working together there is no Oh, there is no separations. Like before even I can give you an example. I was trying. I was I was in a place, Hill mountain place. The Christianity. There are a lot of Buddhism in there is in Shan state. I'm really happy to share this story about me for about my life. Does that village is two villages only Christian Christian village. Buddhist villages are forcing them to be to convert to Buddhist Buddhism. I just arrived to them. They were stopping me. I was literally visiting those Buddhists village they were stopping me to do a video visit that bell village. So I, I believe I really believe other times. Okay, I have to go. They told me at the time the road is load condition is really bad. I it took half of my day to get the village. It's 6000 feet from the village 6000 feet above the level when I arrived them, you know they are they are Christian. They know they are Christian. They knew they're Christian, but they don't have Jesus didn't know that. Jesus. I asked them how you can see you are Christian. They have no you know, they have that village. They are. They have no clinic. They have no school. They have no even drinking water. They weren't they asked me to build a church in the village. So I promised even I promised them to come back to them. I'm really I make a video from this trip that trip. You know they have nothing. Even the whole village only one girl she can speak. Yeah, if I am religious person, I have to call them to Islam, not the Christianity. But you know, I promised them I promised them to they asked me They asked me to build to build a church to build a school to build a clinic to come back to them. Yeah, I made a video I explained them about the god
Host 1:31:43
why did they not know about Jesus? I didn't get that part.
Hassan 1:31:48
The problem is the the you know, it's really difficult to arrive them even even those villages around them. They don't know about the about them. They didn't visit the village. They are very hill station play Hill mounting. It's really difficult because there is no road even I am causing with motorbike inside the forest. Sometimes I can show you the video. Yeah, I can show you the video I have. I made a video. I will send it to you the link Google traveling. Maybe you can check the interview also. Yes.
Host 1:32:31
So there they they didn't know about their own religion because no one had been able to reach their village to teach them about it. Is that what you mean?
Hassan 1:32:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even they have you know, sometimes they are eating only one meal. They have no rice. You do I donated them. A lot of rice packs. Other times. They are really happy, you know, they don't want anything. Chicken or meat. No, they are happy to give them salt and rice. Is that is the life they have, you know how it's the road is really difficult. You know, so I from here, I'm calling you guys because they need your help. Those village they need, you know, they want church around these villages, a Buddhist village, you know they will become sooner or later they will become a Buddhist, because they tried before. A lot of villagers even they were stopping me. Nobody is nobody is interesting about them. I'm really, you know, I cannot explain you know this. It really was.
Host 1:33:46
So you do mention that since the coup there's been a greater sense of unity and communication across different ethnic and religious groups. Does that give you any hopeful sign in the future and looking forward if the people are to win that there could be a new Myanmar a new way of relating that has never existed before.
Hassan 1:34:07
Of course, if we win, Yama will be very good contrary to stay without any racism. Now they are believing even Buddhist people they are believing they did wrong. Leah now apologizing to the minority people just like Ranger a you know about this? You know, it's happened. It didn't happen before. in Myanmar. They even they don't. They didn't accept Rohingya warts. Now, it's peoples of Myanmar. Peoples of Angola, especially educated peoples. They are believing and they are announcing they're apologizing to Rangers.
Host 1:34:51
Yeah, so this is something incredible and if the people were to win, we can see a new kind of progressive and dynamic kradic society potentially in Myanmar, that would be something unlike the world has ever seen and coming out of that,
Hassan 1:35:08
yes, that will be a good message. Good version of a good new version of Myanmar, we will see, again,
Host 1:35:17
a new version of Myanmar. But also if this were to happen and inspiration for the region and the world that one could come out of a background and historical conditions like this, to rebuild some new society that has very rarely occurred in human history.
Hassan 1:35:35
But it's remained so yeah, it's not. It's not just I told you before, even in energy, there are some reasons Right, right. Yeah, some reason is they don't believe they do. You know, the problem is very difficult to accept other groups. They have not that break. Even you know, they are calling it honestly, they are calling to the federalism. But they didn't call any any group of Keanu. Okay. Just there. They are making federalism with their own people, but Burmese people miss people. So how could be possible ethnic groups they don't believe this in. And before that times, the same problem is happening in energy also.
Host 1:36:27
Right, of course. And that's important to be stated to be able to look really clearly at these problems. And in no way do I mean, to be naive that this is the kind of utopian idealistic society that we can lead towards. With just a victory. Of course, it's going to be extremely hard every step of the way, merely to say that this is a possibility, as you've said that, with the way that some of these different groups are now communicating and talking to each other in ways that have really never happened before. This gives an opening in a potential reality that we haven't really seen in Myanmar history before. Yes, yes. So to close, I want to ask you a question. Based on your Islam, faith and your Muslim upbringing, we've had Buddhists and Christians on the show, and we've spoken to them about the parts of their religious teachings that has been particularly inspiring to them during this time, whether it was something from the scriptures or religious teacher or a memory of a story from the Buddha or from Jesus's life. So I want to ask you the same question in going through these hard times. Sometimes religious faith can be something that helps us and guides us in carrying it through, is there something specific within Islam that is of particular support to you during these dark days?
Hassan 1:37:54
It's, you know, it's not a religious you, but I can see, I can see, I never, I never even middle middle of the forest, I never lose my pray. Yes, even I can see every time anywhere, you know, good person will do good deeds. However you are, you know, you are Christians, or you are bullies. But good peoples, you know, every religions, they never teach to kill people, they never teach, to do bad things. But religious person is more better than an religious person. It's, it's only my point of view. Because religious person, they are always they want in three. In Jews, Christians and Muslims, they believe the Day of Judgment. So everything's we do, we have the Day of Judgment, God, Almighty God will reward us, right? In Buddhism in Buddhism, they believe if we, if we did good deeds, we will get in another life. We will get the neighbor. So every religion if you follow, oh, well, he will be a good person, I'm pretty sure. For that reason. For me as a Muslims. I got strange, yes. So sometimes, I'm also scared, because, you know, I got, I was escaping A lot of times, and that times, I believe, my religious faith, make me stronger and stronger. And, and my religious faith never led me. You know, leave this could be I always I believe I have to, this is like a duty. Because if you are a doctor, if you have ability to your society, ability to support your society, your ignorance is it's a sin. Yeah, in my religious faith if I, if I can do something for my society for our freedom for our future, if I stay ignorantly, at this time, I didn't use I my ability, the day of judgment. God will ask me why you ignore your ability, why you ignore the people? Why you didn't support people? This is why I never, I never thought about money. I never thought about my availability, this, all these all things. Going back to Almighty God, he gave me this opportunity to help people that made me stronger. And give me more strengths. Yes, without religion. I cannot do this. Yeah, without religion. I have no goal. I have no rewards. Yes, I have no even, you know, a good faith make you human being. Yes.
Host 1:41:27
That's really beautiful. Thank you for sharing that and you reference that you're praying. So I even through these times, you have been able to continue doing the five times per day. Yeah. Even reciting Quran? And has that taken on a new or a different meaning to you to be to be doing these prayers five times a day and reciting the Quran. Is that is that giving you something different than or having a different meaning to you than it did before the coup?
Hassan 1:42:01
This five times praying is make me new strengths. You know, and safety. Give me really, really I can, I cannot stay. Even I cannot survive without praying. I can see that. Yes, it's it's it's really just like you're recharging my soul? Yes.
Host 1:42:23
And did Have you always felt that way with prayer? Or is that something that you feel now after the coup? Oh, no, no, no,
Hassan 1:42:29
it's you know, since my childhood, yeah, I am obedient person to God.
Host 1:42:36
My question is, has the relationship to it change. So when you talk about how it recharges your soul? And it gives you protection? Is that something that you've always felt? Or is that like, a new feeling that's come with religious meanings since February?
Hassan 1:42:51
Yeah. In this after the cope. It means to me just like safety, you know, before that times, maybe I was, I was free. So I cannot scare anymore. There is no scary case. But these times, for example, when I'm traveling inside the forest forest, I saw snake croc dogs, for example, when I'm a good traveling, so we my motorbike got error, I was alone on the way I don't know I will die or not because there is no GPS, you know, there is my my guide is not that perfect at the times. So so we got we got gunshot also inside the forest. You know, there is a lot of things will happen. But with the prayer, I feel safe. Yes. Yes, I can see this, this is happened to me after the cope pre made me more safer. And praying. I was also who I was praying to Almighty God to do not let me leave people. I want to help people till I die. This is this is this is my you know, my purpose of living in this life. It's helping people. I'm really clear. Yes, in 40 of my age, I'm now 3033 40 of my age, I will stop doing business here. I will try to help people as much as I can show.
Host 1:44:36
So with your connections and with your past experiences traveling and such I imagine that if you wanted to you even at this time, you could probably find some way out of the country and get to some kind of safety that you don't have here. Is that anything that you're considering?
Hassan 1:44:53
No I won't till now, or if I see honestly. I want to find Till the end? Yes. Because, you know, if I leave the country, if I leave the country there are at least 200 people's, you know, 150 is it's about 250 you know, wood slams, yeah. So some poor ah people's, there are some orphanages are waiting me, so I can help you know, it's around 500 I can help people, if I leave the countries is very easily here. If I leave the country, those monies are mine. So I can, you know, I can still relax but, you know, being a human being their purpose, when you help people, you will feel this. You know, you cannot stay without helping hands. If you advance if you help people you cannot stay, you will worry. One day, you know, I'm really worried I say to stop my hands to the peoples, you know, but I will try my best this is. This is why I sold my vehicles, my cars. Most I never regret from for this. So I'm happy. But luckily, I got a good family. My wife supporting me, my kids, they are happy to do charity. This is why I can do more better. Yeah, I'm always, you know, this, even this COVID happened to me. I was in last time, beginning of the month. This month. I was in orphanage. I got maybe I got from this orphanage. 120. Yes. orphanage I helped them the day.
Host 1:46:50
I see. Well, I thank you so much for the time that you're taking. I know this is no easy thing with your condition of still healing from the Coronavirus. I know this is very late at night for you. And I think this discussion has been extremely informative for our audience. And it's just so heartwarming and wonderful to hear about all the work you're doing in spite of those difficult conditions. And we continue to support you whenever we can from this platform. I know that many listeners feel the same way as they're getting through this. And I just really thank you for the time you've taken to share your story on this platform.
Hassan 1:47:32
Thank you for your time and giving me this opportunity and listener. If I'm wrong something is Forgive me. I'm not the perfect.
Host 1:47:58
As inspiring as it was to hear today's guest. I know from experience that when you're listening from so far away, there can also be a certain kind of helplessness in hearing about the struggle that people like them are now engaged in. Thankfully, we've organized a reliable way for interested listeners to provide valuable assistance to those local communities. All donations will be sent to support the protesters currently resisting the military. By taking an active role in helping support the movement, you can ensure that people like today's speaker have even a few more resources to draw on and can manage even another week more in their efforts. If you would like to join in our mission to support those who are resisting the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form of currency or transfer method. every cent because immediately and directly to funding those local communities who need it most. Donations go to support such causes as the civil disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, and the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies. For if you prefer, you can hear mark your donation to go directly to the guests you just heard on today's show. In order to facilitate this donation work, we have registered a new nonprofit called better Burma for this express purpose. Any donation you give on our Insight Myanmar website is now directed to this fund. Alternatively, you can visit our new better Burma website, which is better Burma one word.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause in both websites except credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me slash better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and cash app. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to those respective accounts, or email us at info at better burma.org cases that's better Burma one word, spelled GE TT e r u r Ma. If you would like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration.