Transcript: Episode #56: Gratitude and Growth

Following is the full transcript for the interview with these guests, which appeared on June 4, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.

Host 00:44

While this podcast platform typically explores the spiritual biographies of practitioners in the Emaar. Along with delving into the different meditation traditions there, we have somewhat shifted our focus to respond to this current crisis. While we will definitely continue to interview guests who can share Buddhist perspectives, and impart wisdom at this time of need, we will be expanding our work to talk with a wider range of speakers who can add to the breadth and depth of our coverage, so that listeners can better understand the nature of the current crisis. And if there are additional topics or guests that you would like to suggest, please do so by writing us at info at Insight myanmar.org. With that, let's get on to our show. You're listening to the third episode in our ongoing series, love letters to me and more. Our recent run of long form interviews has tried to realistically portray the terror and suffering that so many Burmese people have been facing during this four month long siege since the military initiated their coup on February 1. as critical as it is to tell these stories, we do not want our platform to reflect a one dimensional view, just airing stories of pain and carnage. There is so much more about me and more that we also want to share. So this current series is meant to remind us of just how much the golden land has offered those of us who were fortunate enough to have ever visited or live there, and to help to remember the country during its better days. To appreciate and celebrate Burmese culture and community. We do want to be clear that this current series is not in any way intended. Nor should it be seen as an escape from the current circumstances in Myanmar, especially for those of us now listening from places of freedom and safety. Rather, it's to help reground all of us in why we care so much about this country in the first place. We hope that these shows can aid us in keeping our hearts firmly rooted in the golden land, while also providing a sense of renewed energy and purpose as we face the latest developments. With that in mind, let's get into today's show. We first hear from Joanna that positivity and all the moments is so so good. A young German college student who initially came to me and Mar as part of her college internship and so fell in love with the country that she ended up coming back and staying on during the pandemic. And even after the coup, all the while virtually attending university back in Germany. Next up is Sue.

Sue 03:31

It's a place where I think a lot of almost magical things happen,

Host 03:38

who arrived in Myanmar in 2008, in the wake of Cyclone Nargis, and decided to stay on to support the country's nascent democratic reforms. And finally, we check in with Keshav Mota.

03:50

It's perhaps, you know, feelings like these can touch people, even if, let's say they're not deeply interested in in meditation or going deep into

Host 04:01

an Indian currently living in Peru, who traveled to Myanmar in 2010 and speaks fondly of the strong spirituality he felt while interacting with different communities. We'd like to highlight several features appearing on this episode. In addition to the guests themselves. First are the musical interludes, you'll hear samples from the protest anthem dough, which means our cars and was produced by Lynn and take a look at the show notes to get the link for the accompany music video, which features English subtitles to the Burmese lyrics. You'll also be hearing some Veena music that was produced by Keisha Third guest on the show, and which he kindly offered for our youth. Listeners may also recall his music appearing at the start of a previous episode, beaten but not broken. Another added feature is a poetry reading by a volunteer

May 05:16

Kathy narula view the Ganga Nala with a naughty bear baggie with her DNA garmendia utimaco Chateau de la mer.

Host 05:25

She has her own podcast and we have included her poetry reading on previous episodes, and look forward to continuing this and chose to come. On today's episode, she'll read a poem by kept the this manual based poet was arrested last month, and then tortured to death in prison. Knowing the power the poetry offers and its creative expression of resistance of freedom, the military has been ruthless and murdering some of the greatest poets in the country. We've also included several tracks from the team and the heart insights, who created the operation Hanoi Hannah project. They've described their work as follows, quote, inspired by the annoy Hannah of the Vietnam War, we recorded and engineered several audio files and combine them to make a track that we hope will be useful in our psychological warfare against terrorist dogs that mercilessly kill the civilians of Myanmar. We hope that this will convince at least some of the soldiers to participate in CVM civil disobedience movement and join the Myanmar citizens fight for the cause. The uprising shall succeed and quote, these audio files are available on the mohar insights website and freely available download. Burmese protesters have done just that. They download the tracks of defection messages and hide speakers around outside to broadcast them to soldiers. By encouraging the military not to kill. the Harz work is at the forefront of the fragile nonviolent movement. While the tracks on this episode are all in Burmese, our team is currently collaborating with them to produce English versions, so that our listeners can also understand their meaning. We hope to include more of these tracks and episodes to come. And finally scattered throughout this current episode, as well as on so many other shows we've recorded since the coup, you may notice ambient sounds from Myanmar, which were recorded at ground level during these protests. This was courageously done by darnay, who took his microphone out with them to capture how the streets and people actually sound. And I'm grateful for Mike beings work in so creatively placing the tracks throughout these episodes. To put it succinctly, we're trying to create a listening experience that goes beyond just a singular interview with an individual guests. However interesting and rich may be on its own. As a result, we hope that it helps you gain a deeper feeling as to what is now happening in Myanmar, even as we listen to these other non protest stories. And if you're moved by the stories you hear today, please consider making a donation that can go to the communities most being impacted by the tragic events transpiring in Myanmar today. So with that, let's get on to the show. mega lava and sa p Hana Hana so that sun endosome yahara not only to me by pm Yanina Eazy E la frcp mee mee mee mee atiim with us immediately and united to us, and we have I have only had my hand as a Lando Miho technica mu, Connemara. He's my

May 09:36

good bye Kathy. Translated by pure Willa. like them, we're also the Mixed Blood descendants of pure sack and Canyon. The Myth of pure cash tree and bloodline will mark your idiosyncrasies. Does our civilized world still commit the deprivation of the dignity of a community. The community is rounded up and fenced off. like animals, the community has been denied the inborn rights. The community has no choice but to envy the privileges that others enjoys the gift of God. their very existence is another reason to protect them for the conscientious people of the world. Their genocide cinco, good obeah in ending and somewhere else that took the innocent lives of even children and elderly. None of the victims know what sin they have committed. But when they got here after they could have asked, Are we free from hell now? Kathy narula view the guy on gondola, three naughty bear, baggy boys. DNA garmendia you Tamago Chateau de la man, Luca Munir Sudoku, Luton, both ancien bolo de t l. e. n t rock, Obama, Seaton tala Teresa no changa basil can't hire and luann University to go Ha. Daria Chica yo by Padre dang it tanto Can't I add a new gun Eunice la luna new Django Piazza Kenya according to canon Gary Asami molienda Myojin era in damianos she made thida soil net, Luda Sunder a child cavagnaro remar town she Gabi Gouda Gemma in Denmark. A chunk about in the United Sudoku Coco you Evita teleread you know cider Sheena yet adult you're this old boy Clayton and I thought God but opium unit they don't know how to do a memo piata Kennett, we need to know to akufo in our lineage army. Hey, everyone, I was away and have a good day.

Ashley 12:43

Do I know Well, welcome to love letters to Myanmar. Thank you for being here.

Johanna 12:48

Hello, thank you. Thank you for letting me be here. Yeah, I'd

Ashley 12:53

love to hear a little bit about yourself, your background and where you're at currently.

Johanna 12:59

Of course, I am in Germany at the moment. And I was studying international media and computing. I was studying in a German University. And I did an internship in Myanmar for six months in 2019.

Ashley 13:20

I wonder how you got interested in going to Myanmar for your internship? Oh,

Johanna 13:28

I was interested in Asia pretty much. I have traveled to different Asian countries during University and also before this. And I've never been to Myanmar. And my university wanted me to go abroad for my internship. So I was like, okay, you have never been to Myanmar. Let's take a chance and go there. So I went to Myanmar.

Ashley 13:53

That is so cool. I wonder what some of your first impressions were when you arrived to Myanmar?

Johanna 14:00

Oh, that's actually a cool story. Because my first impressions were very crazy. I arrived one day before the tins and the big water festival in Myanmar. And I drew straight from the airport to the apartment where I was living then at the moment. And I was seeing all the people building upstages in the very, very late evening, nighttime, maybe. And I was like, Huh, what's this? Okay. And the next morning, I woke up and was sunny and I was like, Yeah, let's do something. I wanted to go down and get some bread and maybe water just something to eat from the next grocery store. So I went downstairs, and some children pulled water over me. So my first impression of me on my ever was like getting water pulled all over me. It was hard and I was like, What What is happening here? The children were laughing and saying something. I was like, Okay. Okay. And then on my way to the grocery store, everyone was pulling water at me and smiling. And it was, I don't know, it was so amazing just to see everyone with this big smile on happy face in the seat in this country. So yeah, this was my very first impression.

Ashley 15:25

That is incredible. I mean, I just, I'm just tearing up hearing about this, because I imagine that you were pretty surprised and maybe even confused with what was happening. But it is just such a special occasion, you know, the New Year's celebration in Myanmar called tinjauan, where people just as you're going through the streets, people just pour water on you splash water on you sometimes with the hose. Sometimes it's a big bucket or a small bowl. And it's just refreshing. So yeah, I wondered, did you have anyone explained to you what that occasion was about?

Johanna 16:05

I researched before I went to Myanmar, what will happen when I am there? So I also read about tins on the water festival. But I didn't expect it to be this huge. I maybe was a bit. Yeah, naive at the moment when I was reading the articles and things on the internet above water festival. But when I came there, it was just overwhelming. It was huge. It was super nice.

Ashley 16:42

That's lovely. Yeah. And so you spent six months there doing your first visit. I'm curious to hear you know what kinds of projects you got into and just the different encounters that you had while you were there.

Johanna 16:56

So I went there for my internship. So of course, I start after Tinder, I was there for tinjauan, like a few days without work. And then after the water festival, I started working. And I went to the office every day. And I did my internship in backend for web development. But I felt lonely. Like I didn't know anyone besides my co workers. And I didn't really communicate with them because maybe they were shy or I didn't really know how to talk to them. So I was just be in the beginning in Myanmar. And then I was like you, Hannah, you have to connect to people. So I went to Facebook groups. And in one of the groups I saw that there is an event happening at a club at the dancing club. And it's on whether weekend, it was Sunday or so. And I went there and it was cool because I was dancing Kpop at this time. So we learned a Kpop kayo graphy. And I didn't have anyone to talk to so I was just like, okay, two hours of dancing. No, I don't have anything to do the whole day. And then a guy just came straight up to me and was like, you look lonely. Do you want to talk to me or and he became my best friend. And we just like traveled together we had different experiences all around the parts of Yangon. together. We were like seeing so many things. And he was also giving me my Myanmar name. My Mulan My name is more because of my yellow hair. And I'm born on Monday. And starting from this moment when I met him, I just learned to love Myanmar. Like I went to Sri Lanka on the big pagoda. And yeah, like the first, the first depression when I got there, like being lonely, just changed into Wow, everyday is wonderful and the big experience and I'm so thankful for all this and being here.

Ashley 19:13

Yeah, that's incredible. How big of a difference, you know, meeting someone that you can connect with and to really show you around a new country. So I wonder Did you get it to visit other places around Myanmar?

Johanna 19:29

Yeah, I mean, I first visited Pon I guess. And then also other big cities manderley back on some beaches and so but I think the experience or the part of Myanmar that I loved the most when I first went to Myanmar was small hometown, from one of my friends and in this town There are not many people. So everyone, like I was an attraction, you know, I went there and everyone was like, wow, there's a foreigner. And it was kind of cool to be there and see everyone looking at me. But also strange, because I'm not, I wasn't used to this attention. And in this hometown, it was during wet season, rainy season. So it was flooded, the area around the hometown was flooded, and people on the countryside didn't have access to fresh water, drinking water, food, medicine. So from the hometown, we started packing water and food into little boats, and drove to the towns around and put like food and medicine at the monasteries. And this experience was so so nice, because we were helping other people. But we still had fun. And I really did something together with local people without understanding them. Or they understand me or so it's had was was amazing.

Ashley 21:22

Yeah, you bring up a really great point, because in your mark, so many acts of kindness happen where, you know, you don't really receive anything in return yourself other than just the pure joy of helping someone else.

Johanna 21:37

Yeah, that's so true. And this is also what I really miss being here back in Germany. I think people here have a very tunneled you, they have their life and their life has to be great. And in Myanmar, it's like, if you see other people, and you can help them, you just go straight up to them and help and maybe it's also coming back to your life or maybe not, it's okay. Like, the positivity and all the moments is so so good. It's Wow, this really, really also changed how I see things. And yeah, I'm just super happy that I had these experiences. Mm hmm.

Ashley 22:21

Yeah. And so you were there for six months? And then you went back to Germany? Is that right?

Johanna 22:26

Yeah, that's right. But only for one semester at university. And during semester breaks, he was like, No, I have to go back. I was missing my friends. And also this bird, the life and Myanmar. So I went back there. And then I kind of got stuck. I didn't have I didn't have the plan to stay there for so long. But my flight back to Germany again, got canceled because of the pandemic. And everything was online from a university. So I was studying online, and I was like, Okay, I can just be here in Myanmar. And it was cool, because I had my friends there. And I got much support from my friends. And yeah, I was able to stay in Myanmar.

Ashley 23:16

That's amazing. So it sounds like you sort of fell in love with Myanmar and had to go back as soon as you possibly could. Yeah, that's true. That's definitely true. So your second time in Myanmar, you were stuck there with COVID? And what was that like in Myanmar? I mean, I know that there wasn't too many cases of COVID. But everybody was practicing social distancing, and believe most businesses were closed, right?

Johanna 23:46

Yeah, that's true. I think the thing about covered in Myanmar was that we knew that once it gets to an area where people don't have access to good medicine or health supply, they would really suffer so everyone was just trying to Don't let this happen. And we stayed inside and restaurants were closed, businesses were closed. It was different. Because before the six months in Myanmar before this, I was able to do everything. Also at nighttime because it was still warm outside. You could just go by bus to the next town or something. And now with COVID it wasn't possible anymore and you felt trapped. I felt trapped, kind of and it wasn't always easy. I believe all around the world. This is not easy and it wasn't easy. Being away from my family during this time was especially hard and difficult by Like I said, my friends were there. And we talked over phone. And we always were looking for the next time to see each other. Like we did plans like, Oh, we will drink bubble tea and stuff like this. So yeah.

Ashley 25:16

Wow. Yeah, I imagine it really was quite hard. They're being away from family during such a time of crisis. And I'm happy to hear that you had some friends there. What is it like for you having Mr. Friends?

Johanna 25:32

It's awesome. That's the best thing. Like for my whole life that could ever happen to me. It's like, I always have to smile. When I talk to my friends in Myanmar, especially to my very first friends who I was talking about. Like, the jokes and just the positivity with in all the situations. That's awesome. And sometimes they also see things in a different way. And I'm talking and talking and then they're like, wait, you Hannah. poco poco. And I see like, wow, yeah, yeah. I haven't thought of this. Wow. Thank you. So it's awesome.

Ashley 26:12

Wow. So you were there during COVID? And then it sounds like you were there when the coop started as well.

Johanna 26:21

Yeah, that's true. In January, everyone was happy because things were opening again. But then right at the point where everyone was just looking into a bright future, the coop happened. And yeah, everything changed basically overnight.

Ashley 26:41

Yeah, it's really heartbreaking. When I think about how everybody was just planning for a fresh start after COVID, after following the restrictions very closely, and all the guidelines avoiding mass increases of COVID cases. And then, and then the coup happening. I wonder what that experience was like for you, if any memory in particular stands out about when the coup happened, and some of the struggles that you had to face up to?

Johanna 27:16

Yeah, so there were, of course, many struggles coming along with the coop. And I think the organization like for my whole life, and the daily life was a big, big struggle. Because I couldn't plan anything. I was in my bachelor thesis, like I was writing my bachelor thesis in Myanmar. And I couldn't really plan when I have internet access when I can meet people to do certain prototype testings. And this was very difficult. But I really loved that I was living together with a local friend at the time. So whenever news came up, she was telling me where what these news are like translating to me and saying, Oh, yeah, this has this background, this is happening. So we also went for donations. And it was good to see that all the people were just sticking together and embracing what they're fighting for, and just be really worked together for one goal.

Ashley 28:27

Yeah, there was so much a unity during that time when the coup started. And I wonder if you had the chance of participating in any protests.

Johanna 28:36

I participated Not really. Like for many, many hours in the protests, I was donating some food. And at this time, people took pictures of me. And these pictures also went viral. So afterwards, I was a bit afraid that police officers might recognize me and then ask me what I'm doing on the streets. But for the donation, I have a special memory because me and my friend we went out during the milk tea, Allianz protests, so we were donating milk tea to the people in our streets or taking care of that no policeman came in. And while we were doing the donation policemen actually came and we're chasing for basically everyone who was on the street at this time. And so me and my friend we had to run and we were like, okay, we had to hide we had to hide. So there was a grandmother waving to us that we can come into her home and we just ran straight into her home. I didn't recognize anything at this moment. But when I was in the home, hiding from the police, I was looking at the grandmother and she was very slick. them and had only one I left. And she looked at me and my friend, and it wasn't like she was asking for, Hey, can you get out or I'm not safe or so she was asking, Are you hungry? Do you need anything? Do you need something? And I was like there No, no, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. And then she was looking at us. And of course, we were sweating because we just run. And she went to the only plaque for electricity in her home. And she had one tiny fan that she was plugging in this fan so we could have some fresh air. And then she was trying to get some water. And so and she was talking in Burmese and my friend was translating that she said she would get food for us if we need some. She doesn't have some food at the moment. But you would get some for us. We are hungry. And I was just so overwhelmed at this moment. Because the police was facing us what never happened to me, of course before. And I was in a little tiny home with one room. And then the grandmother offers me something she doesn't even have. And I was like, wow.

Ashley 31:20

Wow, indeed. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, that just really goes to show the, you know, caring and generous nature of so many Myanmar people.

Johanna 31:30

Yeah. And I was trying to make her take all the mukthi we had left, but she didn't want any. Like, this also shows that, you know, like, she wanted to give us something without even expecting us to give her something in return.

Ashley 31:50

Exactly. down. That's a beautiful, very heartwarming story. Yeah. And so it sounds like, you know, becoming viral with some of the images that people had taken of you during the protests. You had to be in hiding?

Johanna 32:09

Yeah, not really. I think I was in a lucky position to be in the country. When everything was still as open as it was, I was able to take taxis I was able to go and buy if the grocery store was open. But there was always a tension and a pressure. And this is also why I couldn't finish my bachelor fillister and had to leave because I needed internet access. So yeah, it was it wasn't easy.

Ashley 32:48

Right? Right. So you were working on your bachelor thesis in Jamar and then of course, all the internet cut off and so you had to go home to Germany. I wonder what was that experience like for you having to leave during, you know, in the middle of a coup when all of your friends and and your neighbors are in in danger.

Johanna 33:11

It's felt like not real. Like I needed at least one month here in Germany to know, okay, this was not just a bad dream this, like it really happened. And you are know, in a different country in a different timezone not able to contact your friends and everyone and you're in Myanmar. It was not easy. And it felt very unreal, I cannot really express the feeling because, of course, I was happy that I have all my friends in Myanmar. And I was happy that I can see my family soon again. But also I couldn't believe that I actually got a flight. And I got a ticket at the airport. And then I come back to Germany where everyone's worrying about the pandemic. And things are just still happening and going on. And I'm in between two worlds basically.

Ashley 34:21

Right, exactly. Yeah, I imagined that you had a lot to process and then, you know, your closest family members and friends in Germany probably couldn't really relate to your experience of the coup and having to to escape an environment that you weren't even sure you'd be able to escape.

Johanna 34:40

Yeah. And many people said, No, you're back. No, everything is fine. But no, it's not fine. Just because one person left the country it doesn't mean that the people in there are okay are doing fine. And I also want to tell this to the people in Myanmar like there So many people, I have friends here in Germany now, so many people all around the world who really, really want the democracy for Myanmar, and want justice and everything. And we're fighting for this. And we're speaking to politics. And we're just talking to all the friends and people we can talk to, to make them aware of the situation so that no one forgets and that we can actually change the situation. Right there.

Ashley 35:35

Wow, exactly. Yeah, it's so encouraging to hear that people in Germany care about the cause. And Jamar and and you said it beautifully. You know, I there are so many of us out here, just really pouring our hearts into so many different projects to support the people of Myanmar and really hoping for their safety and their well being in their achievement of democracy.

Johanna 35:57

Yes, true. And like when I do all this, I always have the thought in my mind that one day, I go back and I can hug all my friends and I see the beautiful smiles and we can laugh together and everything will be fine. And we will be happy. So yeah, this is what what I really want.

Ashley 36:21

Yeah. And so what are some of the projects that you're currently working on to support people in Myanmar.

Johanna 36:29

We're doing protests in Germany, in the major cities, like every weekend, and then in smaller cities and the major cities at least once per month. And we're writing letters to the government. And we're also trying to help some diplomatic, diplomatic people here. Because, of course, they're also trying to support their people in Myanmar. And it's not very easy to do this from Germany. So yeah, we're trying to do our best here to support what is happening in Myanmar for the democracy.

37:15

Mm hmm. Yeah, you

Ashley 37:17

know, I think so many of us are having to really stretch ourselves. And we're learning new ways of, of advocacy that we've probably never explored before. You know, like, for example, on Saturdays, I organize a phone call with leaders and experts and nonviolent organizations with people, young protest leaders in Newmar. And just having dialogue and bouncing off ideas off one another. And there's just, there's just so much growth happening, and also so much a unity amongst the Diaspora and also those that support people in Myanmar. So it's been very inspiring.

Johanna 37:58

Yeah. And to be honest, I was living in Germany for my whole life. But I've never felt this connected within my country. Because now I know, people in different cities all around Germany, we're fighting for Myanmar. And we also have the group calls, like at least once per week. And we're also getting very creative like, there's there are some artists who are just doing super nice artwork. So we can go on the streets and have a big poster saying, safe Myanmar, or things like this. And it's, it's amazing what all the action is doing. Yeah.

Ashley 38:41

Exactly. Yeah. You know, sometimes when I think about previous codes that have happened in Myanmar, and just the struggle that that has been in the country for decades, against the military, you know, I think it's different this time, I think I think all of us are more united, outside of Myanmar, and also with people inside Myanmar, and we're all working together.

Johanna 39:04

Yes, definitely. The Internet takes a big part of this, because the internet makes it happen, that we're all united. And I think this is really a big, big, big step. And we can do this all together. Because we all want this. And there are so many people working for the MA cracy in Myanmar that, yeah, we really want to achieve this.

Ashley 39:29

Exactly. And if I'm understanding correctly, you developed a web app while you were in Myanmar. Is that right?

Johanna 39:37

Yeah, that's true. I mean, I developed the prototypes during my bachelor thesis, and I was about to develop the real app just when the crew started. And I want to work on this. When I go back to Myanmar, or if I have to transfer from here. It's not clear yet, but the app It's made for helping other people. And if the app was what have already existed before the coup, this would have been a game changer. I'm sorry about this. But yeah, later it will also help communities and stuff.

Ashley 40:16

Wow, that sounds incredible. I know that I inadvertently or unintentionally ended up developing somewhat of a telehealth program where I'm matching international Burmese speaking doctors and therapists, with people in Myanmar. And we've sort of entertained the idea of creating an app. And so I know that's a really big project. And, and just amazing that you were developing this to help people in Newmar.

Johanna 40:45

Yeah, that's awesome. I really like how little apps can change communities and how people interact. And this is so cool. Well, Joanna, thank

Ashley 40:55

you so much for sharing about your experience in Myanmar, and also just all the projects that you've been working on to support the people in Myanmar. I wonder if you have any final words.

Johanna 41:09

Thank you, of course, I want to really, really encourage everyone in Myanmar to just keep the beautiful thoughts and keep the beautiful mindset and spirit and laughs and smiles. And to don't give up. We all support you and we keep fighting. And we won't rest until democracy is back. And yeah, just thank you for letting me experience everything in Myanmar. We will definitely give everything back because yeah. Myanmar, too beautiful. Just thank you for everything.

Ashley 42:19

We wouldn't even be voicing loudest, loudest loudest. Hello, Sue, thank you so much for joining me in this podcast.

Sue 42:47

Hi, Ashley, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's

Ashley 42:50

a pleasure to have you here. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background,

Sue 42:55

I am an American of Chinese descent. And I arrived to Myanmar in 2008. Right before it initiated its top down transition to civilian rule. I first came to work on a humanitarian response to Cyclone Argus, which many people know was devastating to the Irrawaddy Delta area, and which killed up to 150,000 people. My role was to support the recovery of these rural livelihoods. After the 2010 elections, I started to work on the strengthening of the country's nascent democratic institutions with a focus on Land and Natural Resources, politics and governance. I did this work for the rest of the time I was there until 2019 when I finally returned to the United States.

Ashley 44:01

That's really incredible. Sue. Yeah, that's a that's a very unique role that you played in Jamar, especially during a big time of transition.

Sue 44:12

Yeah, it was an incredible period. And there are many, many fond memories that I have of my decade living there. I'm happy to share one of these two, to give you a sense of the kind of deep impressions, the Myanmar people left on me. That would be great. So my experience working on the Northeast response left me with a deep impression of the people in this country. As I mentioned, the disaster killed over 150,000 people across this riverine world of the Delta. Our emerging To see Response Program covered six areas in the Delta. And together, I had over 100 Youth working with me, many of them were young men. Because this work involved braving dangerous waters, often in bad weather, and in poor quality boats that meet regularly to deliver the A to the different, small, remote villages along these river ways. And I remembered that I was amazed at how, how the young people carried out this work with purpose, and dedication and good chair. I was deeply in touch that many of the youth who were nearly orphans in this world because many of their family members had died from disaster. They became each other's family members during this emotionally turbulent time. And during the evenings, many of the young people would get together and entertain each other by putting on shows on the World Food Program boat that was parked right outside our office. And I was privy to many of these late night shows, in which there was great humor. And often under the light of the moon. These are very precious memories to me that I will never forget. And it, they just reaffirmed to me that Myanmar people are extremely humane, caring, and resilient in the face of great difficulties.

Ashley 46:55

That's beautiful. Sue, just sounds like even during the most devastating of times, there was just such warmth and friendliness amongst the people that you were working with,

Sue 47:06

you know, people from different parts of the country and at different points of time that I lived there would come across my life at different times. And so it was really interesting that, you know, this, this, this kind of reappearance, and, you know, people were just sort of, you know, coming through my life all the time. So it's a very, yeah, it's a very difficult thing to say. But it's, you know, a place where I think a lot of almost magical things happen.

Ashley 47:48

Yeah, just sounds like really special connections and just encountering each other again, at different times. Sounds really special. I wonder if you can share a little bit about, you know, the time that you spent there, what impressions you had, or what other impressions you had and how it's impacted you? Well.

Sue 48:11

As someone who grew up in the United States since a young age, I now realize looking back that I took democracy, and many of the functioning institutions here for granted. I was very fortunate to work in Myanmar during these 10 years of its experimentation with democracy, and deeply made me appreciate that it is a distant dream for most people in the world. And an ideal for which many people fight for generations, and to which many people bravely give their lives. So, after this experience, it's clear to me that democracy does not appear out of thin air. But something that involves daily struggle in causton individuals stance against tyranny. So I met and was inspired by many of these courageous people. During this time that I was there. And for example, there were these lawyers who I worked with, to better understand the land politics in the country. I would follow lawyers around the country as they gave their pro bono services to communities who had suffered in justices under the previous regime, prior to the transition. So I was able to see How these, these brave individuals, many of whom had recently come out of prison, had returned to the fight for democracy. These impressions followed me back to Europe to the United States two years ago. And I found myself drawn into this country's own fight against tyranny, as Trump threatened to tear down our democratic institutions. And so my experience in Myanmar made me ever more sensitive and determined to do what I could to contribute to America's battered democracy. And right now also to do what I can for the Myanmar people in this current crisis. You Yeah, can

Ashley 50:56

you tell us a little bit about how you've been engaging? Yeah, for

Sue 51:00

Myanmar, I would say that the engagement probably started when I became very involved with the campaign to elect Biden. And I knew that having Biden in the position of President would contribute to mitigating some of the horrific events happening around the world, resulting in gross human rights violations. And so I would say that what I'm doing for Myanmar probably started even before I knew there was going to be a direct link to the current situation. And right now, without going into a lot of details, I have been working with different networks of individuals who also care a lot about the country and the people to try to ameliorate some of the suffering by getting financial assistance into the country and to also you know, get involved with different policy and advocacy particularly with with with regards to us policies, to the country. But it is an extremely difficult situation to impact from the outside. Because the struggle for democracy is is is is a tempest in the Myanmar You know, it tempest in the Myanmar teacup, right. And so it's, it's still highly restricted. The forces are contained within the inside of the country that make it difficult for external forces to impact directly. And there's also many different reasons why the things that could be done from outside are not being done, which are, unfortunately, rooted in geopolitics.

Ashley 53:20

So I'm really curious to what was it like for you transitioning into the Burmese culture? Like, what was it like for you, you know, with the weather and the food and the language?

Sue 53:30

Yeah, that is a good question. And I'll have to think back to that time. When I first got there, I didn't really worry too much about it, because I was initially offered a short six month contract to just respond to the emergency. So I packed one bag and was prepared to live there with my one bag in a hotel room. And then, you know, probably returned home after six months, I did not realize at all that I would end up staying there for as long as I would. But, um, because I was there to respond to the emergency. I had a very hectic life that was raised mainly centered around the office and then returning to the hotel where I stayed with other foreigners on on my team. So I was actually too busy to be worried about anything, you know, I just took each day as it came. I remember it arriving during the monsoon season, and it was it just seemed to be wet all the time. And that didn't bother me. The food because I'd spent quite a bit of time already in Southeast Asia was not unfamiliar to me and you know, everything was was was quite delicious. Except the few times I fell ill to food poisoning. But after one or two of those, I developed a stomach of steel. So nothing really bothered bothered me in terms of food after that. And the language. And again, because I had Burmese colleagues who spoke English and socialize with some other foreigners, I didn't really need to know Burmese in the in the first six months, but after that period, I decided, after I decided I would stay longer, I committed myself to trying to learn grow nice. And know over the course of staying there, I had four different teachers, some who I quickly realized, were really not up to being premise teachers, but I did find some that were excellent. And they they taught me with a lot of patience, so that I be able to structure grammatically correct sentences. So yeah, so that was my experience. And I think that, you know, after maybe one year, I already felt like, it was a very familiar place to me. And just everything, just felt like it suited my personality. No, from the food to the climate to the people to the colors. So I always and still continue to feel that it is my second home after the United States.

Ashley 56:54

Yeah, that's pretty incredible that you were able to spend, you know, as many years as you did there. And it sounds like you just got right to work as soon as you arrived. Did you get a chance to do any of the touristy things later on? You know,

Sue 57:08

the entire country was really interesting, and still is. And probably my first trip was to the Mandalay bogen area. And I remember going with one of my co workers, and we decided to go the slow route, which was taking the 100 year old train that bumped us along to the night and left us with broken bones by the morning. So we really well, we learned our lesson, never to do that again, but it did get us to begun. And from there, we went to Mandalay and, and it was a very memorable trip.

Ashley 57:53

I want to backtrack a little bit Sue. Earlier, you mentioned lawyer friends that you had that were imprisoned under the previous regime. And then as soon as they came out of prison, they went right back to serving their communities. I find that really inspiring and I'm curious, what do you think allows them to jump back into engagement as they do or as they did?

Sue 58:17

Thanks for the question. Yes, as I mentioned earlier, I was inspired by these political prisoners I befriended when I was there. One of these people, is a human rights lawyer who I followed around the country to observe his cases helping more rural people dispossessed of their land, under the military regime before the transition. And over this time following him around, I got to know him better. And I learned that his deep Buddhist practice and meditation helped him get through total eight years of prison with periods of solitary confinement. He told me that he broke up his days by doing different meditation sittings through the day, punctuated by periods of reading, studying English, doing physical exercises, having some chats with his neighbor and soulmates. So it was a he had to have a really strong faith and and depth of character and strength of character, to get through this ordeal, and to come out whole. I also learned that it was from his Buddhist faith, from which he derived His compassion for his fellow human beings that motivated him to go right back To joining the fight for democracy right after leaving prison, he felt that it was only through his effort and the reliance on his his knowledge and action that he could exercise his faith. Inspired by that, I wrote a poem in 2012. As a tribute to the strength in it, and the beauty I saw in people like him, fighting for the country's democracy. I'm not advocating for any formal religion here, but I reference the Hindu epic, the Bhagavad Gita, in which the main character Arjuna has a inner struggle, when he realizes he has to engage in battle, in order to bring peace to his land. The poem is therefore titled Arjuna and the political prisoner, the man cannot escape the force of action. No one exists for even an instant, without performing action. This Arjuna was instructed by the Lord Krishna, your mind, your limbs, your body, as they are meaningless. What is the purpose of immortal life? If not to touch the Divine Love, knowledge service? You like Arjuna saw the world with insight. You saw endless Holocaust and being slick at the world. And being slick at the world's devouring them with flaming mouths. You load bloodshed. But the world is a battlefield and you picked up your sword and able to turn away despite your horror. It was you in the cold dark. So you have a damp loneliness. But it was more than you. There was the soul of a nation. Mouth smothered by torn rags. You set up for them and they live to pour you imprisoned on the outside. baring your scars still, you are now a free man. The battlefield has turned and having passed through the gates of how you're ever the wiser. And the fire in you. Burns brighter still.

Ashley 1:03:00

That's beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that poem. Sue. Thanks, Ashley.

Sue 1:03:04

It was really an honor to be on your show. And I hope that this inspires and gives hope to the Myanmar people who might be listening. I hope it is evident that many people around the world think about them and care about them and are doing what they can to support them in this fight.

Host 1:04:15

One of the most tragic aspects of the current crisis in Myanmar is how isolated Burmese protesters feel. And in fact our this has been compounded by bank closures and as a result, ordinary wire transfers are not possible. Thankfully, through a trusted local network, we're able to ensure that all donations successfully reach their intended target. So if you found yourself moved by today's discussion and want to do what you can to help, please consider giving to our fund, which is 100% directed towards supporting the movement. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are resisting the military coup. We welcome your contribution in any form, currency or transfer method. every cent goes immediately and directly to funding those local communities who need it most. Donations go to support such causes as a civil disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, and the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies. Or if you prefer, you can earmark your donation to go directly to the guests you just heard on today's show. In order to facilitate this donation work, we have registered a new nonprofit called better Burma for this express purpose. Any donation you give on our Insight Myanmar website is now directed to this fund. Alternatively, you can visit our new better Burma website, which is better Burma one word.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause, and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me slash better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo, GoFundMe and cash app. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to those respective accounts, or email us at info at better burma.org. In all cases, that's better Burma. One word, spelled b e t t e r b u r Ma. If you would like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration.

Ashley 1:06:30

Okay, shop. Welcome to love letters to me, Mr. Ashley. So can you tell us a little bit about where you're calling from and something about your background?