Transcript: Episode 36: The Power of Mettā in Action
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Sayalay Chandadhika, which appeared on February 21, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Sayalay Chandadhika 00:25
A
00:32
Good Day, guys.
Sayalay Chandadhika 00:57
I'm speaking to c'est la Chanda deca. She is a Burmese Buddhist nun that's currently in minds Germany. And I'm really grateful to have her on here joining us to talk about the current situation and the perspective from a practicing and teaching Buddhist nun, and to hear the perspective of how her practice has come in to help her and so many others at this time. So, c'est la, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me on your program.
Host 01:34
So first, I just want to ask about you How are you doing?
Sayalay Chandadhika 01:37
I'm doing fine. I'm pretty okay even though I'm not a sumption from qualitative emotion of the people of my homeland. I suffer from this I'm pretty okay.
Host 02:00
How's your practice been going? I will say is good, is good.
Sayalay Chandadhika 02:07
So to learn a little bit about you can you tell us a bit about where you're from what part of the country and a little bit about your life in robes how you came to become a nun and what tradition you're in this is a long story to make a shot
Host 02:26
to make a choice
Sayalay Chandadhika 02:28
after my high school, I have some we have like before you go to university, so I will I am originally from Shan state which is a little bit is north of near Milan. And now from my hometown, I'm travel to Mandalay where I have a chance to meet Mandalay Park our branch which is pretty new newly established and then yeah, this from that time, I have a chance to meditate a little bit more about it. Even though previously I already have started with siara with jotika but mainly from reading his book and try it out alone by myself. And by now here in Mandalay, I have more time to be in a retreat, this is when I happen to be and it was in 2000 to 2008 and become decided to be
Host 03:48
so your influence was initially say that with jyothika He's the snow in summer nap of the journey author a disciple of Tom Palooza. And then from that influence, you became attracted to the power method and Mandalay? Is that correct?
Sayalay Chandadhika 04:02
Yes, yes. Yes. Right. And what was interesting to you about jyothika and power because you started to practice more. Yeah, honestly, I was at the time he was 1617. And I have a lot of I mean, it is normally odd to have some problem in this teenage years. And even though not so teenager anymore, money problem with my mother how to, you know, this, these things, and my father used to give me a gift as a gift. Usually is the book from jyothika. He was he is at the time publishing quite frequently, almost every month. So monthly publication that my father usually send me but we To read and to try and adopt an RFI is so relieving event just just by reading it. And I find a lot of Honestly, I find so relieving free in the mind. And I find my relationship with my mother improve. And so later just by reading later I try, okay, why not? I just do it sitting in front of the altar or in front of the boater. And I do it according to the instruction i find in the book says like five minutes meditation, and then I find is helped me a lot.
Host 05:39
Right, so that was jyothika. And then that propelled you to go and take intensive training at Polk center.
Sayalay Chandadhika 05:45
Yeah. After that I started reading and I I find downtime in Timo, he wrote about a bita ma and something like that he was also one of the speaker, the motivational speaker in my high school, so I have great admiration to him. And now I'm fine another book written by him on a beta Ma and which also have a huge influence in my decision to search for more to go for more. And to learn a little bit deeper what it is. And then also Dr. Maintain mom wrote another book, which called introduction to Paul. And then when I was in Mandalay, I met Paul Okay, this is a plea is the chance, why not, and we just go in to the meditation center. But it is really a long story, a long process. Who actually taken me into this, this time how I was so untangling with the time with my I was normally home guide, yeah, I when I'm finished high school, I teach who is one year junior to me in the school, like the whole guide, I'm teach them in your school subject. So one of my students, let's say, she also wanted to make 10 days retreat as you she was searching for a friend to go together. And finally, is the last story we did together. And then this is actually where I have a chance to be actually into the park is a slow process. I'm sure I'm sure. And you know, usually on these interviews, we often take a couple hours to really explore someone's spiritual story. And obviously, at this moment, we don't really have the time for it and the focus is elsewhere. But just wanted to have some sense of where you came from and what your background was. I guess just one more follow up question. I know this is a very deep question that can have a long answer attached to it. And I'm asking you to condense it just to give us the short version. But what was it that ultimately led you to not just want to be a lay meditator in the power tradition, but to renounce society and your profession and actually become a nun? Yeah, I was say, one word. On one energy, I'm fine is the influence of the teacher. The teacher is so important. And the point Yeah, because I was at the time, I'm really difficult time to decide what to do to different than the age of about 26. Is as difficult to decide which way to go. So there's like two different energies pulling me to stay in a watery light and to go to the monastic. And then what I find is the importance of having a good teacher. Yes. And I'm grateful. Now I look back, and I can see this and how important right so now you're in Germany, and what is it that brought you to Germany? What are you doing there? Oh, another, another long story. Okay, let's say in 2010, I have a chance to own a chance to do meditation retreat with Venerable parcialmente in a modern era. And then there I met German nuns, who has been practicing there. And then, in 2017, I was in Rome, come in as a Pontifical scholar for anti religious time. Not. And then one day, I receive an email from her saying that okay, I hear that you are now in Europe, why not come and visit my monastery in Germany? And I say, I reply off here, why not? And then, finally, and this also is a long story to me In short, right? And what are you doing now in Germany? I mean, I think the last week you've maybe been doing something else, but for For how long? Have you been in Germany? And what is your What is your, your role there? Yeah. I have been here in Germany already two years and a half. And I work in the Buddhist center. As a tera, vaada, Buddhist teacher, the Santa is called Buddha's week. And after that, since last year, I have been doing on my own, a small little nunnery of causes a small little one person house, you're in Germany. I'm a nun. So I make it. I import it as a nunnery. And I make one small room for public gathering, like we can sit together about a people but now in Poland on time, I'm not doing it. So mainly, I'm doing here in Seoul, teaching meditation during guided meditation, mainly some group from Singapore, a group of my old friends in Burmese language, and another group from Amsterdam, in English, and another group is coming from Munich. And at the same time, I'm also studying German language. So it's pretty. Yeah.
Host 12:10
Right, and you're teaching the power method.
Sayalay Chandadhika 12:14
I am I want to say teacher empowerment. But I do together a little bit mahasi and Paul, and mainly ladc, Otto's teaching. And whatever is suitable for situation on give accordingly. Efficient so I cannot say which lineage I'm doing. But mainly is Maha city putana Sutra. Right. So being from Myanmar, you have this depth of different traditions you can draw on for different students and situations and having knowledge and familiarity with those great teachers, you have the advantage of being able to, to use what's appropriate at different times, whether it's mahasi, or lady or POW because you mentioned Yeah, yeah. And are you Who are you teaching? Usually there who is coming to your center? Are they Germans? Are they Burmese expats that are living there? Who is mainly your students that that show up at your center? In my first first half, one and heavier the beginning here in Germany is most of the people come into my top public talk? Whenever we can teach and they are mainly German. But now I'm doing by myself now and it is happened to be in the beginning of korona time, so we cannot gather. And at that time I'm doing Enzo is one group from Singapore, they are mostly my mommy's friend. And then Amsterdam group is a mist that Slovenian bommies, also European Burmese, and the Munich mainly in German, for me is I have you know, I have to find any way to I also love to do it to make the demo into what is suitable for which age group and which is okay, I like to attempt this. Right. Right. So you're a Burmese nun living outside of your country. And this last week has probably been kind of a challenging time to be away from so much that's been going on. So what is it felt like being out of your native country when so many profound and unsettling things are taking place? Yeah, it was difficult. It was difficult and surely in the end the first day to wake up with such a new I would say I could also see it as quite even traumatizing to all the people of Myanmar, I am not exceptional pulse. And this this quality of suffering politic emotion. But I can completely see it. Anyway. It is, even though the Boehner put it in the first basket of the first noble truth, there is suffering in the world. But now, it's like the suffering has come into writing to your door. And it is a huge challenge. And also to test is a huge, true test about your Dharma practice. Whatever you call it, how strong you are, or how is, you know, what is really what do you really have inside his time to come out? I mean, it's for everybody, not only for them.
Host 16:13
Right? Right. And what have you learned about yourself in having this test in front of you,
Sayalay Chandadhika 16:20
in the beginning, the first the first two days around around the students, I suddenly realize how suffering how how much suffering is there. And I also see a group of people I see, okay, this is definitely a time a time for me to pause qualitative meter, not for individual like meditation alone, but this we have to do all together in speech, in action, and to do even more with force, when really powerful. And this is the time is calling for this sort of energy, we have to be together. Yeah, I think for meditators listening to this, the idea of sending metta even to people that are causing such suffering to a country and people that we care about so much, and that are causing suffering to us as well. You know, this, this is hard. I know that you listen to my interview with Davina nanny, and I had referenced being Jewish and going into Auschwitz and being confronted with the hatred and the evil that was there. We talked about sending metta to Nazis who were perpetuating it to Donald Trump who has caused a lot of harm in my country. And we're talking about sending metta to the people who have instigated this coup that now, so many millions are suffering from. So as a practitioner, as a teacher, as someone scaled and meta for those people listening right now that are still struggling with drowning in sorrow or drowning in anger, drowning and just an anger and rage about what's happening. And the idea of wishing well, to people that are causing such harm and causing such harm to oneself is really hard. So what do you say to that? It is really hard, it is really hard even for the practitioner, even even for myself as what I say in the first few days, about two days especially. It was so hard. And it is also important to express the feeling genuinely because it has been so the ignorance is so huge. The honestly, the darkness is so big. It's so difficult is impossible to practice metta right away even for the practitioner, even for myself in the beginning, and I said I'm fine, it's okay to get upset and even I was so disappointed with this main ROI or whatever what they are doing. But it is also okay to let this energy out or to give yourself time to be patient with yourself and then after that Another goal that dissolve slowly, also not hanging, clinging to this feeling of this hardship, also not forcing it to go away, but give give yourself enough time, I have to give myself enough time. And then after two days is suddenly slowly things are okay come back to balance and is much easier to breathe more room for compassion, Midtown understanding to come in slowly come in is already the new way. At some point, but now is, you know, being disturbed by such a huge traumatizing news. And now is slowly coming back and also is a huge process. Yeah, I know that you're connecting with a number of Burmese students online on zoom, and helping them work through their own trauma of, of what's happening, what's continuing to happen, and how, and you are helping them in a dynamic way. You're helping them to work internally, with the pain they're going through through practice. And you've described a little bit just now about your own process, your own emotions, your own efforts. I'm wondering what you would have to say about the students you're working with about the Burmese students, you're connecting with what? What are, what are their experiences? What are these practitioners going through? How are they working with it? How are you advising them? Yeah. And surely we have a tighter meditation session. And we met together again, they are also most of them. Outside of Myanmar, they are Burmese but they are all sort of near muscle we are, we can do anything, but we feel something, they also feel quite disappoint. And some of them already planning to go back to Myanmar and to start enterpreneurship or new visitors from Singapore. Great plan with the correct future great hope. And now it's like, suddenly, you know, your bubble burst. And they are disappointing. We talk a lot about it. And I'm doing the guided meditation slowly. Okay, just a second. And that also give yourself time to go through them, you are not alone, we are all together. We are all together. And many people are the same. And then this notion that I am not alone in this suffering, I'm things already helped them. And it has been, it had been a difficult time for us. For my students meeting in this, but it is meditation group. I know after that I see in the second time we we met twice, twice a week. So in the second time people changed a little bit. There is more room to breathe even physically, for free, the energy is there. But in the second meeting, second guided meditation, they feel much easier to breathe more hopeful, easier to find or to step into metal, but one very small amount. Because so hard is so difficult. Yeah, so another question. You know, being from Myanmar, you're not just Burmese but you're obviously also dedicated to the Buddhist teachings, and you're a practitioner and a teacher. And at this point, in the news media, we're seeing a lot of attempts by the mainstream news stations by just people commenting on their own Twitter and Facebook feeds. That they're This is a time when people are really trying to understand your country to figure things out to be able to explain and make sense of what's happening. And I guess the question I have for you being not only a Burmese not only a Burmese who is outside of the country and is practicing Dhamma has had experiences in other places and countries and other cultures. When you're looking at how people are trying to understand your country and your people and your culture. What Do you think is missing? What are they not quite getting? I will say, when I look back, also to my country it is the land, we have many beautiful things, and also many ugly things together. I don't know why in this day the picture is coming into my mind, every time I reflect or contemplate, and let's say that Myanmar is like your family, and we have two sons, as a family, metaphorically. And one son, the eldest son is a good son. And we got the younger son who is not, you know, not so behaving. And then people love them so much. people focus on the clothes on so much, okay, this is how things should be, we'll see maybe it's a time we pay attention to the certain the younger son who are not so behaved if we really want to make this family, this country really peaceful. And coming together as a family. I also think what is missing in this process, we already have such a wonderful teaching beautiful dhamma, what kind of energy is processing, and there is saying in Myanmar. The meaning is, like, for example, when in the village many years ago, there is not medicine or not so advanced. And then they have the village medic, medicine man, as a doctor or as a healer, when somebody has is shouting and screaming, and they okay she, he or she is being possessed. And then they bring him or her to the medicine man. And he has the book about mantra or okay if someone had the center, which mantra you have, you have to recite, to make the spirit go away or whatever, according into the belief system. And the medicine man he chant the mantra. And then the saying goes the more he chants that worse the patient. So I could see the situation of Myanmar, is why why is this happening again? And again. Yeah, is worse and worse in this second son situation. And that is not that it is not the time anymore that you have to chant the same mantra, again, Maybe I can see and maybe this time, we need another method that I cannot also see another method rather than metta.
Host 28:30
So you think that the method we need now is meta?
Sayalay Chandadhika 28:34
Yeah. If it doesn't work, right, so that kind of leads to my next question. And this is this question of like, engaged Buddhism. Are you familiar with that term?
28:45
Yes.
Sayalay Chandadhika 28:46
Yeah. So in the West, there's been a lot of discussion about social action and engaged Buddhism, how you could take the teachings of Buddhism out into the world in different ways. And that question of kind of using meditation principles or Buddhist doctrine in social causes in the West is something that's been discussed and talked about for quite some time. But we're now seeing a protest movement arise in Myanmar. Of course, not all of these protesters are Bomar. They're from other ethnic backgrounds. Not all of them are Buddhists are from many different religions as well. So we don't want to blanketly describe all of them is coming from a background in Buddhism or even engaged Buddhism. But the question I have for you that I'm wondering about is in seeing how the protest movement has taken shape. Have you seen examples of Buddhist principles or doctrines or things learned on the meditation cushion? Have you seen them being applied to social activities or protest? Yeah, some happening. I will say is quite positive, I don't know is coming from which source. And I also you're not being in oversea away from my home, homeland, and I have a chance only to assess to see and from my friend, they are posting some videos and I am quite positive about it people applying, they are speech for at the moment is very important to have the right speech, which is in this case, I will say metal false. If somebody is pointing you with a gun, and then you come across you confront confrontation is the end, the energy is so intense. On the other side with the gang, this fire energy on the other side, one democracy or whatever, I don't know they are. But if they are shouting, swearing, I mean, it doesn't work. But now they might people, some people coming up from the group, who are leading the group, with the last speaker, speaking some very reasonable, very appropriate speech that both sides can hear the police can hear the demonstrator can hear it, and is somehow bringing peace immediately into the intense situation. And I could see even but can I ask you because many of our listeners don't speak Burmese so they would there's not subtitles on these videos? Can you give some example or some details of what this kind of right speech is that's been said over the loudspeakers that's having this positive effect? This is a PowerPoint, I have to remember or I have to reach up What is it? What I remember is basically they are including they are including the police to them, but doing it in a very reasonable way. objective way. Like just asking, Who do you walk for, do you work for the people. You have to protect the people and something like that. And, but a little bit more, a little bit more, I don't remember all but I always say it. And but what what touched me is some people they bring the water. Water is for me is a sign of metta. Water is very important for me is not is not talking from the sight of Buddhists, or even whatever, is just just public love. This collective human closeness even though somebody is pointing you with a gun, and then another person is still feeling close to that person and to walk towards the police. And then bring in the water and the rose, which is very, very important to show the sign before you can speak anything you can say kind of convey anything else. But people can see something, there's a token or what we call a sign this water and it is touching because whoever is bringing the gun or whatever weapon, they are only made of flesh and blood. And they also have a heart that feels and then this softens the energ. Not only to the police, but the overall energy becomes less intense. And there's more room for communication or whatever. Right That's really beautiful what you said I'm thinking a couple of things about it. One is that I just want to put in some context for those that have not been to me and mar the significance of water. Myanmar is a very hot and humid country and shade and trees and fans and water play an outsized role in comfort, health, even safety, given how you have to protect yourself from the intensity of the heat. And all over me and Mar there's this practice of putting water in clay pots for any passers by to pick up this is done on street corners. It's done in front of homes and businesses and government offices. monasteries, of course, these are this purified water is just always placed in these pots and there's a collective cup that is open for one and all to come and just get a cup Water on a very hot day, which can, you know, maybe it's too dramatic to say it means the difference between life and death. But it certainly is, plays a greater role than than water in a western country where, you know, the conditions are a bit more less intense, you can say. So, you know, bringing water is not imagining these police officers and their full uniforms on a hot day and their own passions and worries and fears. And then they have a cool cup of water brought to them. That's having a calming effect. And I have heard Burmese say it does frequently refer to the metta practice as being like a taste of cold water. Yeah. Right. So there is this analogy already built in, which is connected to the hot climate and the role that water plays there. But that's the first thought I have. The second thought I have is I hear you say this is you're talking about metta and action, this is really powerful. So sometimes in the West, when you just speak about sending good thoughts, there can be this kind of like, well, these guys have have guns and money and power and everything else, and what what's our what are our good thoughts gonna do, but what you're describing are people who have developed a practice and belief in the power of these good thoughts, and after having developed in this practice, are capable of walking up to a police officer with all of the good feelings in the world. And that energy is something that you can't fake, it's something that you can't develop overnight. It's the fruits of a practice that has been going on for a long time. So that by truly developing this kind of meta mind, you're able to walk the walk, and legitimately authentically bring a sign of peace and an actual physical thing that will help that person in their condition on that hot day. And do it with a truly pure intention. And that's something that you can only do if you have been working in that practice and believe in that practice. It's not an action you can just say, now I'm going to do this because it's you know, it's the political strategy of the of the moment of how we can kind of gain leverage or something it's actually built of years of mental inner spiritual work, that is manifesting at that moment, this is also one I want to emphasize is they are on the demonstration it means they are in anger. But in the middle of this anger, is coming come into thought even coming up you know, I will do it anyway because they might be also hungry and thirsty or hot or whatever. But when you mentioned this, what come to my mind, metta-water is a very common phrase in Myanmar. We call metta ye, ye is just water. This is in our daily usage and daily metaphorically or in our songs music, like monastic music or even music even metta and love, is sometimes they even use interchangeably in the daily Burmese society. You don't have to be Buddhist Islam of Christian because we brought up in this society in this language. It is a lot of impact and influence of this metta-ye, ok let somebody be cooled down and distinguish past the heat this whatever, this fire energy. But this could also happen in in the demonstration! They are in a group Okay, I'm bringing my water or even bring more for dana to share my I can also do it with the people who share the same group. My people who love ASSK or demonstrators. But now they even share to the people who they are fighting, basically they go against with them. But ok, I still share, it is something coming up is also I say is the time this situation challenges when you really have inside of you. I'm not talking from the practitioners point of view, maybe they practice their life in their society, they have a lot of this input already. But not they are like nuns or monks. But even then, it is something coming out from the non-practitioner people or maybe she might be practicing I don't know but what I'm saying is now in this situation of in the middle of anger, and then some things they come up and this beautiful, is bring a lot of light. And you see the power of the small things, the power of small metta mind, which is coming up as an action with a token, which is so important, powerful. This is really powerful. Yeah, so this is like level triumph, you know, this is the belief they're going in with it that this is you could say it has some connections back to the civil rights movement in America to Gandhi in India. This sense, this non violence, of confronting the problems that are happening in a way that are not causing more pain and more problems and more harm. And I also see in the pictures I've seen, you reference meta, I've seen an enormous amount of Donna and action, just unspeakable. I've never, you know, I'm not an expert, I'm not a scholar. But in my casual reading and knowledge of protest movements around the world, I have never in my life seen the kind of Donna and service that is going on this week, you know, people that are assigned to pick up trash, people that are handing out free meals, free water, free food, rest stations that are set up so people can take a nap and have something to drink people that are very young and very old that are coming out, but that are also being taken care of and supporting. And usually when you look at protest movements that involve millions of people, you know, you have a fear of a mob mentality and some kind of energy taking over and doing things that people lose control. And here, I'm not I'm not there, and I don't know everything. But from pictures I've been seen, what you describe with metta that I because I'm not fluent in Burmese, I'm not getting all the nuances of how that's happening in action. And what I've seen from these pictures that are clearly showing Donna a sense of service and a sense of non harm. These are really, really powerful emotional forces that are coming, not to combat but to to offer a another option of what's possible. And I really like the metaphor that you gave us before about the two sons and so you have this unruly son that you don't want to kick out of the house and you don't want to disown and you you you don't want to make his life more miserable you you know that he's he's doing things that are causing you and other problems but you're you're looking for a way of integration not of disintegration. Mm hmm. Yeah, listening, what do you talk about Donna? Just given the service. What our experience Donna has been here in the West is they do logic, logical mind logical thinking. Donna in Yama is more like the way they are doing is from more lights, interests. And in order to happen and Donna you have to be to party give and receive only then dialogue can happen. And here is mainly what I experienced is, is Donna, because it's my only one side you share because you tend you have more other people have less therefore you should share something. Yeah, with a little bit logical thinking way. The joy of giving is not so open.
Host 44:06
For the people in the West you're talking about.
Sayalay Chandadhika 44:09
Yeah. So the joy of giving only for the rich or something. I mean, it's not maybe this is overly generalized, but mainly I'm feeling this way. Right so in the West, Donna is given somewhat according to means and maybe pity and according to some of these principles and in Myanmar, Donna has a way of life that's integrated into ideally, every moment in every interaction and that's manifested most profoundly in monks arms rounds that go into very poor villages, and some people are only able to give literally a spoonful of rice. I've seen I've been to other villages is where the families were so poor, the children would wake up early in the morning, four o'clock in the morning, they'd climb the trees to get the blossoms that had come, the first blossoms that came, they would then pick the blossoms, string them together, and at six in the morning, they would offer them to the Buddha shrine, there was no, there's no finances involved in this whatsoever. It's just an action. And so it's not based so much, and how much do I have? And how much do they need this kind of logical calculus that you talked about, but it's based on the value of seeing Donna manifested in every single opportunity that you could manifest this good quality? I will see the joy of Donna the joy of giving his all even to the beggar who is begging on the roadside, he or she herself or himself have not might not have enough. Even then, if he or she wants to share, there's a chance opening they can share your and it just happened in this way. So you don't have to. So logic doesn't you know, okay, you don't have anything, why are you giving your things to others? There's not a question. This logic doesn't walk in the way happened in me and then he are in Germany. As far as I experience maybe. For example, I have a supporter and has become a Buddhist monk, and he is going from here in Europe. And then her mother is very supportive, everything but she cannot accept that her son is asking for food in the market to the people who have more than half and then she always say okay, I have to know your way Buddhist and be well stay in a monastery, everything okay? But one thing I find difficult to observe is you are taking food from the people who are poor, how can you do this? And this logic now, this also makes sense to them in this way of thinking systems. Which way is happening? Right, and in these protest movements, I mean, this is a chance for these values that so many practitioners have been working on in their own internal practice for so long. It's this is the moment for them to manifest it for the benefit of the entire country. But one thing I hope is this, this people become more and they don't call into the other Amity like like reacting with anger, revenge, and you know, this sort of energy. We have seen it enough of it every demonstration What about in the mo in Hong Kong, whereas in the world demonstration and confrontation with the police, they shoot you they beat you or they throw with this kind of picture this kind of a sample the wall, we have enough of it? And now I'm just also to the group with mine titled meditation what what we really need revolution is something to transcend. You know, if we do in the same, there's like more of the same things, what is the difference? There is no and in it during the same way. So we have to transcend to do more mitad they are not like your second son. So the stain now behavior can be more midterm or double your dose. But I find is bommies people are relatively quiet. People who won't bring them like you are in this chaotic time. Yeah. And that relates to my next question. We're talking right now about those people that are in Myanmar those people that are on the frontlines, so to speak, literally able to converse with policemen and give them water. This podcast episode and others that have gone out are largely going to a foreign meditator community that are outside we do have a number of listeners in Myanmar that I think this these kinds of topics and reminders are very valuable to just to remember the energies that we want to cultivate and the darker energies that we we don't want to. But for those that are outside of the country, there's a question that's coming in, I'd actually like to quote, one meditator who asked this question word for word that I think epitomizes what many are feeling. And the question is, what should the meditator community do to help Myanmar at this time being that a lot of the practice, a lot of the training that we have undergone, should come to help at times like these, this is an opportunity to practice and contribute to those who need it most. So this is the question that one foreign meditator has asked. And what you've described just a moment ago, is more for people who are in the country, all of these meditators who are outside of the country, and are not directly engaged in the issues, maybe they don't even speak Burmese, maybe some of them have never even been to Myanmar, they just are grateful from learning a practice from a Burmese lineage. So for those kinds of practitioners, many of them are feeling really hopeless and really helpless, wanting to do more not knowing what they can do then just be angry, be sad and practice and then try again, what words would you have for those kinds of practitioners outside of Myanmar, what is it that they can do with this time, as a human, all we can do is three things now one with voting The other is by speech. Other is my thought, which is with the mind is, I would say people outside of me, including myself, what I just just what, what, keep em foam and the see the group of people who are demonstrating in the picture, or in the video, whatever. And then take this site, in your meditation and just meditate on your sit on your chair, just close your eyes and, and just visualize this group of people who are demonstrated or the group of people who are with the sun that matter may be free from danger, but sincere the honestly, intention, the deep wish, the sincere wish, for five minutes or so, okay? Terminus also okay. And this is people from outside on what we can do. And if you have a friend, just encourage them say positive word, the mid tower by speech, if you can do something by speech, speak something positive, hopeful, may tell for something quantity to meter. And also, don't worry so much. Also very important, I feel so traumatized. But it's okay, let it happen and be wait. Give yourself time, but not so much worry about people because people they are there, they have a chance this emotion to churn it out. And let it out. Just like buying beaten pots and pans. Maybe this is a good way this is a natural healing, they don't need therapy, because they you know, they do it. And then people from outside oversea we cannot do, we can't, you know, we all these energy, the feeling the emotions, too, is important not to worry so much, okay, they have their whole way of doing and I do what I could do what I cannot do, which is totally in your meter standing in meditation, these people in your prayer if they know it, when you also communicate this message to them. We have done a lot. Right. Thank you for that. So one thing I notice is there's kind of these two extremes. And we're trying to find this balance path. One extreme is what I just mentioned, an extreme of being so drowned by emotion of anger of sorrow, a fear that one has a difficult time in practicing because of the power of these emotions. An extreme on the other side is this tendency to say, Well, this is their karma. There's nothing I can do about it. I just do my practice and segmanta and the way that the way that things will unfold, it's the way that that it has to according to karma and I just have to understand these principles and move on. It's even taken forms that I've seen on social media of people saying that this is a worldly issue. And it literally doesn't matter that Buddhism is going to survive, whether it's this leader, that leader, if even if me and Maher breaks down completely, the teachings have been exported enough that people overseas can carry them on. So really, the most important thing we just need to do is keep practicing and accept the ways of the world. This is a tendency that I would call spiritual bypassing. Spiritual bypassing refers to using spiritual ideas and practices to sidestep or avoid facing unresolved emotional issues or psychological wounds, or in this case, social and justices, it's a way to say, I just need to practice and let the world take care of itself. And so there's an extremity of being so overwhelmed by emotion in the world that you can't practice. And then there's the extreme of being so cold and out of touch with the world, that your practice becomes a way to really avoid feeling or thinking or caring about what's actually happening. So, we just talked a moment ago about the other extreme, looking at the extreme of people that that practitioners who might say, well, I just need to sit on the cushion and practice and these things will just be worked out as they can this is not really anything to do with me, what would you say to that kind of attitude? Yeah, but sometimes when we look at the situation is in between Optima. Some of you keep silence, it is somehow the same that you agree with our demand in the particular situation, for example, in this kind of situation, but this one, you mentioned spiritual bind person, if I don't know in which sounds they are doing, also, I also thought is not not only with the body, but also can be in the normal people and your non practitioner or even some people they are not interested in politic. And they can be stay or pay that it'd be whatever. And I have to do what I have to do. Yeah, maybe this kind of mindset can happen to anybody, not only in Buddhist practitioner, I thought, this could come from anybody in this kind of mindset. Right? So, how to navigate that middle path, how to engage wisely with the social issues in the world, without ignoring them and also without being overwhelmed also, if we meditate in the first place, the intention, what is the intention, and the intention is for the happiness of myself, therefore, I can, you know, if you are happy, this is what you carry, when you bring whatever you put this happiness, this lightness, if this is your intention of your meditation, and then it should be what you do also for other people, you and other people, other people and you they should not be the vision or separation. But if you if your intention or meditate in the first place is no later be only for self interest. And then maybe, but what the Buddha, if you are meditating, having the Buddha as a teacher, and we always look up to our teacher, where he did for him is always happiness of the wall or the people that also have costs including oneself, and then do whatever we can to contribute positive something, find your speech, whatever we can do. So we've spoken a little about the Burmese who are engaged in protest about the Burmese that are overseas that you're helping also about the foreign practitioner community that is overseas and wanting to support. Another big sector that we haven't talked about is the Burmese monastics that are in Myanmar the monks and nuns, novices teachers say it is scholars. What do you feel is the role that Burmese monastics should be playing right now? Oh, I see is a huge role because it is almost like Buddhist country. All such beautiful teachings are coming from and I will say even we take back our example Yama as a family with two sons is Although I will say they are the elders and the elders and the awesome this is my this is my younger son who is not behaving and the Miramar as a society as a general These are people who love Dharma a lot It means who love to Salah something good they are also Buddha teaching and then is also we have to aware that loving Dharma too much shall not be hating automount too much we have to be aware and then Okay, we I love them so much. But I also accept that as a human human possibility that animal instinct we all have by myself even though I am a person and then I also have to take care my little brother, so huge role that in a family I also have a lot of hope now. In the meetup, practice, to double dose. My hope is from these people, the eldest son who think themselves they are good person they are practitioner they are they love dharma. Please, now is not the time Okay, I am a good son. And you are bad son. So you stay on the other corner I stay in this corner. is not the time anymore. If you are a really good son, please go out, reach out and take bring your little brother. But if you are a really light the night I am the corner, I stay mine like on this corner you want the toughness so you stay another corner. And it doesn't work anymore. And of course we have we can have all the like minded people who are with you. You can set more people with mental agreement Yeah, people come in from outside protesting in Myanmar who love them. These are also important to call it the life. But now the situation what we are happening is in Myanmar is by Isaiah Malin Clearly, the more you chant the walls your patient has become. So it's also good on one hand, you call it more like more people who agree with the same idea with the ASO is a time to reach out the top and convert convert the document to the light slowly. And this every morning. Every single person. You don't have to record as a practitioner even now in the demonstration people with talent, innate talent and Tommy out who are grasping the loudspeaker and speaking something which is does not this is natural not tomato, natural wisdom. I'm not sure they are even Buddhist or not. But I have a huge respect for that we need this mob. people already have it. Now. This force we're coming out more and more. And we pray we make more meter join into this force. And then we one day we can dispel the darkness, not despair light, we change the darkness into the light. include them and bring them back home. So that we have a proper family, good family as a whole. Yeah, that's really beautiful. And I want to come back just to the monastic institution more specifically because on one hand, due to being monks having renounced the world and following the 227 vineya rules. These monks are not necessarily expected to be involved in worldly and societal issues, they've stepped away from society for a higher calling. And yet, the Buddha also established a very reciprocal relationship between lay and monastic society, with one offering sustenance and the other offering spiritual and ethical advice and guidance. It's this ingenious system where one can never get too far away from another you know even even in Myanmar. MK can't just decide he's going to be fed up with lay society and go so deep into the forest that there's no lay supporters to feed him and take care of him because by vineya, he's not allowed to buy monastic rules. The monk is not allowed to procure his own food, he depends on on those lays for food and by depending on them for food, he's he or she is in proximity to be able to perpetuate those teachings. And so the monkhood is in the situation where they're not able to and it's not appropriate to be involved directly in worldly society on some hand, but on another hand, they do have a moral, ethical and spiritual responsibility and role to play in doing something where one where the worldly leadership ends and the moral and spiritual guidance begins this is not so clear these are not exact lines. So do you have any set and we've already seen some monasteries choosing to engage in some ways some monasteries choosing not to engage in other ways? Of course there's there's practice monasteries, their study monasteries, there's there's many different kinds. But what role would you like to see of monastics of monks and nuns playing at this time as things are shaping out? Yeah, I would basically go back to middle way mentality Mishima says using venia. To build the world want to create more distance between you and the night laity is also is another extreme, and to engage totally in politic, worldly. Not letting your primary duties is also another extreme, but there are still many common platform in the SMB era way that we can stay do is quite a lot for actually, utterly. There's quite a lot that damar on T Tamati channel can do impact the society in a positive event in this time, for example, the monk has a rules now we cannot create my art wonderful only for sure. And it's okay just to express your wish. attitude. No, okay, I am on the MMA side. No, this is okay to express and go this is my this is my view and to express your view is okay. Okay, my view is according to the demand for the welfare of many people. And this is very, very, is allowed to do for
Host 1:07:57
right, so you would like to see more monastics expressing their honest view in accordance with the Dhamma pertaining to the current situation.
Sayalay Chandadhika 1:08:05
Because if you keep silence is like sometimes Nice to have you keep silent, interesting, yes. It also is no thought to say yes, even though you don't mean it, but it's happened to be in the situation. Now. This is not what the Buddha would love. But to bring people together in peace, but actually it should be I don't know what something is missing one, I will go back the love of the Dharma and something wholesome, something good. We show it too much, we have a pattern that let the other son and ascetically Richard nutlet ignore being too much paying attention care and praise in to the elders and this kind of an this side of energy. Another side of energy is totally wrong. But I think now we could find more mature, more understanding more reaching out, more reaching out, just my friends or something like that. And then let them feel free included. And slowly, there is a lot more than as they can do. Right. So in other words, there's a time to engage in noble silence and there's a time to engage in right speech, and we need to have the wisdom to not just follow some kind of plateau. What one thinks it means to be a monk or to be a practitioner, but to be skillful enough to know how to engage in different times and different ways, they are also doing it already a lot. One, my, my minute is in this saying the more you chant the mantra, they have chant a lot of mantra, a lot of the motto, a lot of them are teaching on one hand, already a lot, enough, more than enough. And even reaching out to the wall, from from country of near marginal first world country, a lot of them are already there. But the situation what is happening is Mali, clearly not the same as the more you chant the walls, and maybe we all we have to do is or maybe we are missing, it just very short is just close, but we are missing a shot. And one turn is coming easy. Because damar is already there, even the young son, my younger son is be here, but they also brought up in this damar society. It may be I hope, my my prayer is we find a way that method that to convert these own darkness into the light that is already there, all we need, all we are missing is only one, what is it, and I find this is momentum or region. You're not only very like, what you found when you have to chant what you find in the book, which is true, which is a right speech, according to the book, also, this also is my chance to chat. And also just have a look what's happening, what is the impact, not only all the time, with like, broke twice, you call also living with heart and reaching out. And I I'm finding my practice and believe in me, your willingness, your truthfulness that you really want your younger son to come in to come back. Now the truthfulness is strong, and they will come back and you will find a way. But not only are not only performing according to what you read in the book, this we all have enough and this have been benefiting very, very positively to the eldest son, and all the other people are now a little bit more caring, listening and paying attention to what is going on with the artist. And we really want right, so one has to be dynamic, critical, flexible, not just follow a prescribed set of rules or platitudes. But to actually take those hard steps of checking in with one's own emotion and practice and looking at how the world is laid out and choosing a wise course of action, all while making sure that's in the framework of the Dhamma. And if you're a monastic and the framework of the vineya, so that you are in these bounds, but just because you're in these bounds doesn't mean that you have to be rote doesn't mean that you just have to do what's always been done or what you've learned or the traditional ways you can within these boundaries, you can be dynamic and flexible and creative and playful and engaged and critical and try new things. So it's bringing together these this ancient wisdom to this very modern set of problems and the modern tools that we have to deal with the situation. Now if our focus our wish is truly the well being of all the people well being the father corners of becoming a good family again all together to include all this really is our focus. Right and this is a very unusual time because I've never personally never really felt the time like this where it just feels like so many of us are in this collective trauma together. You know that we're we're living and breathing. This I can't tell you how many friends I'm talking to you know, foreigners and Burmese lay and monastic. Even Buddhists and non Buddhists, that are have some connection to me and Mar either they are they are they are Bomar or they are another ethnic groups are there, they've been in there long they've been in Myanmar a long time they're there now they've benefited from the practice they have some some heart connection to the country and everyone is collectively undergoing this pain and trauma and real time. And there's this tremendous cry and plea for freedom to to not have the freedom taken away from it and to to find ways to preserve this freedom but to do it as you've been talking about through met through Donna through goodwill, through manifesting this inner spiritual practice that's been building for years. And to live at this moment, in these feelings and emotions that so many of us are feeling simultaneously, it's something I've never experienced before one weakness or like, sort of weakness, I'm causing like this exclusion, but we are not doing it purposely. But even in the private practice in Optima, okay. And it's not like judging, but this is how things are just to objectively to see how things are you will practice in the Dharma, okay, this method or that method and I mean is this way is nothing wrong, but in doing so, we are and consciously or unknowingly there is an entity of exclusion to each other, but Tama or the partition, whatever they need, this should not be mutually exclusive this business. So, the energy happened to be this exclusion from here a little bit here and there. And in doing so, at the same time, we include more people and simultaneously we happen to exclude other people and is like Yama is very divisive or how you call it very literally separator group ER and they are and then I also find it is not so good. And now with meta meta is demand is calling to be more inclusive more unconditional, unconditional, this is what I want and then whoever is that even start from your people who are like minded, not the younger son side, but start with the other side is your cycle start with inclusion inclusion and slowly but more with more Yeah, this is the spiritual home walk we love and start with inclusion and whoever you see slowly and then arrow the cup of this exclusion is becoming almost as a habit or is it just happening unconsciously happening whatever it is now it is a time to Eva foreigner calm or even Jamar there is no groove you know this stone with a teacher include everybody reach out and be a samba one everybody see it by for example, here I'm a safari now and I have some you know, this is only two people, but is a sample inclusive. I am be included unwelcome here and you have a place here with me. Even if I live in a smaller house. event here we have only two people one gentleman one Jamar, wherever we go, the energy between these two people they look friendly to the IRS is the message is happening. But in the practice, Dr. Ma, no. Okay noble silence, or I have this rule I have that rules rules is good to create harmony between the car Unity but also we should not neglect that in doing so happen to bear the distance with another and something is being exclude mutually awesome I find is not so good. I don't know. Yeah, no that's I think coming back to this analogy of the the family and the different members I think that's extremely powerful I think that your message of of Donna and I've met especially have met I think is really driven home by thinking about this as a somewhat broken family that one wants to bring back together into harmony I think that's very, very beautiful. And I'd also like to ask you to close out in this past week and your practice and your guidance to others, what have you been drawing upon for inspiration and support in terms of the sutas or the tama pada or discourses from a certain say of meditation insights meditation guidance or instructions what has been of most support and inspiration what has been most relevant to you in trying to deal with these times? Okay, welcome to my mind also senior Of course, we also cannot leave out this police ptmp call the artist also is really happy happening this this side also is somehow reality and then see and this will come to my mind is some pilot teaching case and I don't remember the name anymore but the Buddha once said if somebody's beating you and then you should not read at all you know instead of beating this person back banker riflette you can reflect okay he only beat me he has he has not hurt my limbs yet another one he had to cut your limbs part by part and then the bonus and reflect okay he only taught my limbs up he has taken my life yet something like that. So see something positive now he has what he has not done to you yet. And then I feel like this is very powerful and then I cannot but so much angry see and these police okay over here you just take and people come in at night the house of the people taking them yeah. You are like I love you so much we met in person she is in in arrest and you don't know where she is of course if we traumatize and then later on slowly after two three days also this this teaching remembering of this teaching come in okay they are not they are not doing me this yet they are not doing harm yet. I'm sure we also have inspire form something like that she has gone through all the things and one thing is also is not from the detail of the Buddha but she herself but she said Gemma Mona moment into martial means if I hate I lose, of course. And the kilesa is the weapon of failure shoe of fire. And the meta is the weapon of success. This is also machine learning. But what keeps me in these days this reflection Okay, they only come and take people at night but they haven't killed them yet. But because it's thought by the Buddha and I thought okay, my teacher when he said it, maybe it might be something maybe this faith also is helping me. But it's helped me right away. I find my anger or my worries and disappointment. They are not so much anymore. I appreciate that. I know that I definitely feel a little bit better after talking to you now, I hope that when this airs that listeners will, as well, you know, the outside reality remains as it is. But you've really done a powerful thing to remind us about the power of the internal reality, not just as an internal manifestation, but the cultivation of an a set of internal conditions and, and tools that can then be used to manifest outside. And that's a very powerful reminder and even as the situation continues to be very worrisome to remember what we can control in our own actions and our own spiritual practice, I think is a sign for some degree of hope. Also have a glimpse a little bit deeper, to see why the Buddha now crying the Buddha, teach us to include the enemy in the middle. Now, it's time to realize a little bit deeper. Otherwise, the problem never cuts off, unless we standing on however much you are right, I am the light and therefore I stand on the corner of my light and they are the darkness and you push them away that the fight the conflict will keep on going eternally never and there is no and now I have a glimpse the wisdom of the Buddha. Before I understand, Yeah, I know. You hate the person you hate the long term solution. Unless you have done what you have should be done spiritually. The problem can never get solved. Now, however Right you are, you are the light until you include some new combat the darkness, including your enemy. Only that I can kind of see on the other solution than this long term solution. It will take effort, we are spiritual. But the fruit is so the same. So sweet.
Host 1:27:25
Those are very powerful words, say La and think those are words that we should close with. So thank you so much for joining us and best wishes to you best wishes to the people around you and to continue doing the good work you're doing.
Sayalay Chandadhika 1:27:38
Thank you for having me. Wishing you
Host 1:27:48
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