Transcript: Episode 21: Zaw Win Htet, Part 1

Following is the full transcript for the interview with Zaw Win Htet, which appeared on October 20, 2020. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.

Host 00:00

Burma or Myanmar has been a closed country for most of anyone's recent memory. I was blessed being able to move here for work in 2007. And I stayed on after my job finished to explore the Dhamma deeper to my heart's content. As I did so, I found the lived reality on the ground didn't quite match up with how it was being depicted by practitioners and teachers describing it in the West. This isn't so surprising perhaps, unlike Thailand, where Western monks and teachers have spent formative years and even several decades studying and practicing, that was never possible to do here. For many years, it was hard enough to get a visa for seven days. In any case, part of our motivation in this podcast is to provide a more authentic on the ground view of what the Dhamma life really feels like in the golden land. We do this by checking in with dozens of voices whose lives have been shaped by the Burma Dhamma and are willing to take just a moment to share their own personal transformation. So sit back and enjoy what follows and I hope you learned something valuable as well along the way.

01:17

A lot of

Zaw Win Htet 01:58

of all places the Baskin Robbins ice cream parlor off of soy Erie in downtown Bangkok, is the site of a very vivid memory attached for me. On a visa trip to Thailand with my wife several years ago, we emerge from a soak at the unicorn Japanese onsen and decided to grab one of those sweet treats not yet available in the golden land. While she was paying, I was browsing my Facebook feed and happened upon an unusual post in a young Kong group, and perfectly written in English. A young Burmese man was discussing a monastic school in a rural area near his home and upper Burma outside of monywa and inviting backpackers and expats to visit and if possible volunteer, with Myanmar opening up after so many years of being a closed country, things like Internet access, English fluency and cross cultural project building. We're all in the early stages. I'd never seen a post remotely like this before. I immediately got in touch with the author of the post zoan tent. We corresponded a bit by email, and later I sent him dozens of draft pages of the meditators guide to me and more that our team had been working on asking if you wouldn't mind assisting us. This text included the full moon UI area chapters with extensive sections on lady say it has life and teachings, za agreed and he immediately impressed upon us his diligence and attention to detail. He pored over one Burmese history book after another, dug into the Dhamma teachings of local say it as carefully marking up our pages and undertaking his own translations. And as if this were not enough, he traveled in person to many sites to conduct his own interviews and send us his notes and photos. Any foreign meditator who has benefited from spiritual travel to the Manila region from our book or social media posts has all to thank for it. After several years, we finally got the opportunity to meet in person. I was leading a pilgrimage that landed in monywa and he met us there. We spent a day in his hometown of changle, arriving just as his family made a large offering to a number of nuns at their home and we joined in the good wishes and happily dug into the delicious food. He then drove us around giving us an enthralling tour of little bygone or the Omnia region near his home. After years of corresponding electronically his joyful presence only increased my esteem for him, and I was happy that a small chunk or community had such a brilliant star in its midst. After that, occasionally on Facebook, I would see a photos all had taken a treading on Pagoda, or some other Yangon landmark, and I would gently chide him via email for taking yet another trip to the big city without looking this up. I eventually exacted a promise that on his next such visit, he would come to our home for sure. Fortunately for all you podcast listeners, that was after our recording studio was set up. true to his humble nature, offered over a dozen reasons why others would be a more worthwhile guest than himself. But he finally acquiesced when he was convinced that his involvement could increase the faith of even one foreign practitioner and the truth of the Buddhist teachings. For someone whose life is a true testament of service towards others, it's not surprising This is the hook that brought him in zahlen Ted is curious about the world and does not just accept what he is told or sees at face value. traits that are unfortunately not that common in a country whose education system has traditionally been neglected, and at times even actively suppressed. He actively seeks out learned people and listens carefully to what they have to say. And he reads voraciously. Add to this a special ability, and frankly one which I'm envious of, to synthesize, retain and communicate what he learns in an extremely coherent way. A little prompt here or a small nudge There is also needed to be off and running. And what he has to share about his country is well worth hearing. There are some pretty incredible stories and what follows some inspiring, some dramatic, some legendary and some will almost unbelievable. I'm so glad that we were able to record his voice, and that it's now available for you all to benefit from, but don't take my word for it. Listen up and decide for yourselves.

Host 05:54

So welcome for the first time in our place. I've been trying to get you here for years, I always see that you're I see on your Facebook that you're just leaving Yangon or just in Yangon a short time while we say no, why don't you tell me we want to have you over. And finally, this time, you said that you were coming for some event in Yangon. And you had a day to spend with us. And I was so excited and the studio was set up and I can pull you in here. We, we just met once before this in person when I came to monywa, and then the chungu. We've been in touch for years over the internet. And it was such a delight to meet a couple years ago in person and spend that time together. And then it was great to continue corresponding. And I'm really glad that you were able to come this time and that we could hang out outside the studio. And then we can also get a chance to check in with you here because I think the story that you're going to tell and some of the background that you have to share is just really great to be able to, to have people out there be able to listen in.

Zaw Win Htet 06:56

It is my pleasure to come here. And thank you for your invitation as well.

Host 07:01

Yeah. And you know, we should also say that our our relationship and involvement began with you really helping us out in the meditators guidebook. You're as I mentioned, you're from monywa, which is famous for the lady say at our region, also some of his disciples, such as Moni and seda, were in that area Maha Bodhi Bodhi the townsite. Right, he's he's also there, and you're from Chow Lu. And in the meditators guidebook, you were absolutely of great help, and being able to provide us a lot of very exact information about some of the history and the culture and the monasteries and the practices in that region that made those chapters much better. So that was that was our, the beginning of our relationship. And then since then, we've seen the work you're doing at your monastic school and your region. And maybe let's just start hearing a little about the history of your village Chow. Ooh, where is it? And why is it important?

Zaw Win Htet 08:02

As you can see, Chow is a small town. And but in history is a huge history. It has a huge history since the era of again, so it was studded. But in our writings, it was it became premise, after the blue one composed by CLG, the kangaroo mine, who is the national leader, and the teachers of general Allison, and also the Keanu. And the other thing that can be bad. So But anyway, since we were young, we hear a lot of stories about the history of our downtown. You can hear chow chow means the stream whoo means take fast like that. So in our oral histories, my grandma always said every night about our history game, Jen said maybe you have heard about, again, Jesse Jesse ran away from from began kendon. Because he made his, he made his kin and Murata angry, and then he ran away from the capital, and that he was hiding from the bullies of the gang Oita. At that time, he ran to he came to chow eight years. And then he has he, he loved many places behind his his running away. So in Chow area he ran completed, completed with a stream can be used by the zombie and zombie, but at the time, the stream the water in the stream runs goes first before him. So why he became the king? He named this village town because the stream piece him stream beats him.

Host 10:13

Right? And for someone who doesn't know a lot about me Mr geography where How could you describe where Chung Hua is located?

Zaw Win Htet 10:20

Everybody knows Mandalay, right. So uppermill Obama, mentally mentally it was the capital city, so everybody may know, but in the west of Mandalay and it is two and a half hour drive from Mandalay to the west, and to the Northwest region, it is in the lower region of lower part of the region.

Host 10:49

Okay, so it's about two and a half hour by car northwest of Mandalay, which is in upper Myanmar?

Zaw Win Htet 10:54

Yes, yes.

Host 10:55

Yeah. Right. And you would reference that the origins of chapungu come from a subject of King Noah tough from bygone who was running away from the king to escape his life. What years are we talking about? At

Zaw Win Htet 11:10

around 880?

Host 11:13

Around 880? So you trace your villages formation to around 880 180? Yes, right. Okay. And can you clarify again that So chungu means a quickly moving stream? Is that correct? Yeah, it goes fast. A stream that goes fast. Yeah, it goes

Zaw Win Htet 11:31

fast. Before before King and King James it

Host 11:34

also the the king that was escaping. King annoyed that he named it the stream that runs fast, because

Zaw Win Htet 11:45

it just they ran away from Ghana later. Because he made he fell in love with the bronzes. Who is given by the by another game as present to gain again, or that became angry on game gensets or loved breast cancer.

Host 12:08

Yes, yes. Right. So to escape a love triangle of the princess that both kings had fell in love with. He went to chungu and started and he named it the, the he named the village, the stream that runs fast because the the stream was running faster than him was that way.

Zaw Win Htet 12:25

Yes. Yes. It is a love story. A good love story when we hear for the children. When we were young.

Host 12:34

I see I see. Right. And that was a story. Your grandmother told you. Yeah, the village Yeah, that's great. So okay, so that's the founding. So then take us through the next several centuries of what happens in chungu.

Zaw Win Htet 12:46

Actually, Chung who was at the time, a village, but after gain currency, in the, in the last days of the gas era. There is also a king called King Joshua.

Host 13:02

And what what century is this?

Zaw Win Htet 13:04

It is also 100 years later, 100 years later only. So at the time, King Joshua and his mother ran from began to Chung again, because his father was assassinated, buying, buying, buying, buying the others. So his father lost his throne, and also his father passed away. And then again, Joshua and his mother came to chow. And then they were hiding in a monastery, near the Mendoza village near the mothers of village. So in that monastery, one, his mother was hiding from the danger of the key, who grabbed the throne, from his husband, from her husband. So, he he breed at the border and he offered a rope to the Buddha statue, and that Buddha, and he, he wished, if her son became a king, he he will come back and rebuild the Buddha and he will offer as your guilt the Buddha with the full goal, either. So and then, one. The one the family, the mother and her son went back to began after years, and then they were welcomed by Nick Gonzalez and Hassan became a king and King jazva was very famous for his literature in Tibetan Buddhist literature for three baskets of Buddhist literature. So, he also came back and guilds the pagoda with full gold. And then he erected and stone inscription, which is still existing till now in Nevada. bond that in the equation it is says in this area chungu Area B B missionary different reasons like the lower at the time what was called low but oh lawan at the time was called lava, lava and also Obama and also currently amazingly lived. And that's true is corruption. We can see this until now until today in a burger festival in in a village called Kala g in the village there every day every after the Buddha festival they are still dancing Korean traditional dance

Host 15:44

right so this is highlighting some of the diversity of Myanmar people listening might not know what a diverse country Myanmar is the Bomar people are the majority but there are so many other ethnic minorities that live there now and have lived there before and as you're discussing from this yeah inscription on the pagoda even that description evidence strong evidence right that of the diversity that's always been here Yeah. And so you're it's also interesting because your village Chung Ooh, it sounds like it had some repeated stories of Kings from begone running away for safety and taking refuge there. So it hadn't had this relationship and actually today it's it's called kind of a cute nickname of Little Dragon right?

Zaw Win Htet 16:29

It is again,

Host 16:30

yeah. Why is it copper?

Zaw Win Htet 16:31

Yeah, in our map, you can see our area chungu and began East we can see straight up and down. so closely looking south north and south trade. So crossing the river and God river and you can at the time be bear from began capital were rich our region. So there is also a village God Dong Bella where the Kings justice Queen was born. So you that that area is called Lidl again.

Host 17:10

So this is Chung Chow, right? And why is it called Little bugan?

Zaw Win Htet 17:14

Little Bryggen because there are many stupors and tumbles and ancient pagodas like in beggin So, it is spreading around but you have to have enough time to visit all the companies how much time? Yeah, three, four days. You have to because it is spreading, right in this village and other religious later. Yeah, right.

Host 17:42

And do you get foreign tourists every year coming to see these sites?

Zaw Win Htet 17:46

I often take my guest from low gear or from foreign countries. I usually I am proud of digging them to this idiot.

Host 18:01

Yeah, and you are a great local guide and historian you definitely take care of the people that come but do you just been a place with that kind of history? Do you tend to see a lot of foreigners tourists walking around and seeing the sights is that common

Zaw Win Htet 18:17

in Ladybug area? foreigners come very, very occasionally. So generally very Yeah, it is very rare to see the foreigners because it is

Host 18:30

off the beaten track. Right. Right. And that's so anyone listening to this Dhamma visitor or otherwise who's thinking to come to me and mark this is a great travel hint of a really special place to go when I visited there and you were my guide and showed me all these places and imbibe them with local history. I remember thinking boy, if I was just in Myanmar one time I would almost rather come here then the gone Of course McGann has that great history but with it you also get the touts that are trying to sell you things and all the other tourists and all the other commotion and this was just a really peaceful and magnificent set of ruins one after the other after the other that was was was just empty for you to wander through so it's a it's a really special place with a lot of history and significance to be able to see today

Zaw Win Htet 19:20

of course it is yes

Host 19:21

yeah and you know most of those stories because you've you've spent your childhood hearing them and then you also have a curious mind you've you've read books, you've talked to local historians, you your family has told you things you've been to all these sites so you're really a repository of information about some of these great places

Zaw Win Htet 19:37

Yeah, my my ambition to do read the books, especially histories and but especially biographies. These passion was born by my grandmother. Actually, if I have to see here, in this point, if I have to see about My passion to read books is studying from my grandma. He always tells me the stories in the nighttime. And then the first very interesting story he started to, he started to tell me was senior topical attorney. In that book, it is about the life of Buddha. And then every night every night time, he always dealt different different stories. So and then I also mixed questions to her. And he tried this, he trained me how to read. And okay, you can find this story, you can find this history in this book, he guided me to read the books. So and after that, when I read more and more books, I read about the history of my area, and also about the connection, relationship with began. dynasties. So like that. So that's why the information as much as I know, and I also would like to share with the others. One, we started to use the computer in 2009. And at the time, not not as as LCD monitor. My father bought me for after I passed matriculation exam, and I use the computer. And then I think 2011, I started to use the internet. And I also wrote in the wiki video about the history some of you might have

Host 21:46

read or you you wrote, I wrote so you so the the Wikipedia entry discussing Chang Wu was written by you from Yeah, wow. Wow. So that's really impressive, because I think for listeners out there that don't know about Myanmar's recent history and access to information, you're really ahead of the curve. I mean, 2012 13 is when the country started to open up, the access to internet was very seldom before that just a few years before we're talking the mid, the mid 2000s there's almost not Wi Fi anywhere in the country, there's almost not access to any kind of internet. So just after the first sprinklings of internet are opening up before the country is really opened, you're already finding your way on to Wikipedia of all places, and using that to be able to share information in English about your village history, which you've spent your life learning about from your grandmother and from books and from going there. So this this passion to to learn this information and share it sounds like it came from a very young age on your part.

Zaw Win Htet 22:51

Yes, yes.

Host 22:52

Can you say more about that?

Zaw Win Htet 22:54

Yeah, about this, I I like to tell about the history another history of my area, it is a mean, I mean, so now this is another village another village close to town also about off live again. Right right. So in a mean village. Everybody every mama knows with IRA, you will also see a road named with Sarah

Host 23:26

sugar younger. So who was with our

Zaw Win Htet 23:29

with our, what was a national hero and who passed away after his hands for hunger strike, or for more than 150 days after hunger strike, he passed away in, in British colonial period. So as a time old there are only two there were only two monks who, who was against the British rule. And one of them is will demand from Rakhi. And another one is from our region with our so

Host 24:10

since the British ruler, since a British ruler, took shoes on the platform of the vocoder and then it there was a protest against him. And also Finally, it led to the protest against the British rule. Right so to back up a little bit, Burmese pagodas and monasteries, some monasteries, but certainly pagodas are places where you have to remove your shoes out of respect in order to to go and the British did not like removing their shoes, they weren't wearing sandals, they were often wearing these big Western military boots, considered it kind of a sign of humiliation and submission and it took time and it wasn't their culture. And so they there was this big cultural miscommunication and conflict where they insisted on wearing their shoes, even on sacred Buddhist pagodas. And the Burmese nationalist movement used this as a protest to start protests about the disrespect for Burmese Buddhist culture. And we Zahra was one of the people behind this particular point of protest. Is that correct?

Zaw Win Htet 25:23

Yes, he came from from your village. Not Not Not only that, for that, for that case, but also he also led many activities later for the national independence. And also before dinner onsens before dinner on set and also before yanda can be Bey.

Host 25:44

Right, right. So he was one of the the first nationalist leaders that the later ones looked up to. Yes, yeah. And he was a monk as well. Yes. Right. And he came from your village as well. That's why that is

Zaw Win Htet 25:54

still until now, there is some beliefs that monks should also participate in politics. Deal No, in among them, monks. Okay.

Host 26:08

Can you say more about what you mean by that? For example,

Zaw Win Htet 26:12

there are two, two sides. One side is, monks do not participate in the politics. And another side, monks shirt, because even with our and wildomar, participated for the national interest for the national independence. So they they are they were very good examples to protect our race to protect our country. So the issue the examples, and that's, I suppose, monks, should they should participate in politics and political activities?

Host 26:49

Right, right. So there's this question that monks, the the job of monks is to be a monastic, to not be concerned about the changing of the outside world and to because the world is always going to change this is the Buddhist teachings, but their concern should be on ensuring the Dhamma does not go away and teaching the next generation? And then there's another view that, well, no, the monks are looking after the social welfare of the people and of the overall race. And if if there's a major problem taking place of those people, then they also have to serve that. And this is interesting, because you're referencing one of the probably the not one of but the monk who involved themselves in politics more than almost any any other of that time period, until today. And he came from your village, and he was an example of the one side, it's then interesting to contrast that with another great Burmese monk who came from just outside your village and monywa, just maybe 50 years earlier. And this is of course, Lady Santa. So lady say it was the most popular and famous monk of the colonialist era, one of the most important ones and from your and we should also say you again, have a personal connection with Lady say it is legacy, because many of your family members are involved with ladies monasteries today. Can you share a little more about that?

Zaw Win Htet 28:17

As I already said, My grandma is the main character of this story. So she was also farmers. So in the flames of Lady Theodore from jungle, she was Yes, she was French Oh, okay. She lived her husband is also a staff, a government stuff of railway station. And then one the one they lived in Montreal, at that time, that is zero D was traveling around the country, not to eat the meat or God, beef, not to eat beef like that, too. At the time. There are also diseases happening all around the country. And then there is a road he traveled around and made the teachings do the Bieber not to eat vif because they are also benefactors for the promise because our country is agricultural country. So my my grandma also listened in one of his Dhamma talk, and then in person in person. And also he was he has also seen general awesome in person as well. Alright, so he listened in the d'amato. And also, he also has data now I have the books written by Larry Sergey, regarding about the objections to eat beef like the other time, especially in the traditional Miramar before the British came in. My grandma said my grandma even said, as, as the as the book as per the books. He said before British came in. And yamabe usually eat vegetables. And sometimes there might be some hunters who ran into the forest and the the contract Revis and just more enemies, but after the British came in, and then the they also brought a culture to eat chicken, and also pork and also beef like that, at that time, beef was very popular in Namibia and we like to eat beef a lot. And then farmers are losing their guns. And then Larry, Sergey steder to, and also at the time diseases were happening. Then Larry Sergey started to, to make the demodex and teachings to the Bieber, not to eat fish. And also my grandma was also one of the disciples of Larry Sergey. So although we are my parents, and even myself, and our farmers that are still now we don't like to eat fish. What's wonderful, and, and so your, your grandmother was a disciple of lady said,

Host 31:12

she attended some of his sermons, did she tell you anything about her personal recollection of seeing lady in person?

Zaw Win Htet 31:20

He told me once that one, actually, I have never seen Of course, Lady theology. But I, in my very early age of my young who life I saw, I was under the, under the teachings of Mahabharata, Thomas era. So what she said is, look at mahabodhi, the tongue zero, and his face also looks like mahallesi. So, that's what he remembered. And also

Host 31:59

his face, his face his face. Yes, yes.

Zaw Win Htet 32:01

And also, one she lived in Moscow. And at the time, there was no rain in, in Montreal, and then lady Sara Lee want to go pro to from one industry to another. And then he claimed he was the toilers of the monks, Buddhist monks. He always respects the community of Sangha. So after, after he did these merit, these, this good deed, and then he made a resolution to rain, and then it rained. So this is my grandma also believed in this story very much.

Host 32:46

And she was alive during this time. Yes, yes. Yeah. And lady say it was from this region of moneywatch. Hungary where you're from this is a hard place to live. This is a hard climate. It's history is relatively new, the people haven't there haven't been a large community, or city that's, that that's that survived for a long time, because it is a harder place to live. So, so lady being from that town, he knew of those conditions, but he still would go back and spend much time there. Yes. Yeah. And so it's also interesting just to reflect on that you if we reflect on yours and my background and how we came together, your grandmother is a lady say a disciple and that runs in your family. And and you remember her recollections lady say it of course, through his lineage ended up the Dhamma ended up coming to sn Goenka who taught around the world and had these passionate centers. I learned the passionate meditation in a center of of sn Goenka tradition in Japan, which eventually brought me to me and Mar that practice. And so it's interesting,

Zaw Win Htet 34:00

right, so you, the generation of mahalo at zero, we can say new new generations or maladies,

Host 34:08

right? So you're you're coming here from your grandmother's stories of witnessing lady in person and the the Dhamma lessons coming to you more or less directly from through her as a vehicle and her experience of being with him. Whereas I came from I'm from America, but I practiced in Japan initially for those two years. That's that was the thing that brought me to want to be in Myanmar was that tradition and that practice? And so I'm coming on the other end, but then there's that thread connecting all of us and your grandmother and Lady and Glencoe. So that's that's really wonderful.

Zaw Win Htet 34:40

Yeah, Nothing happens without their formal goals.

Host 34:44

Right. Right. Right. So I want to get back to initially why I brought up lady said, we were talking about UI Zara being this nationalist monk who was very much using his monastic status, to want to be involved in worldly issues. While you also had another great monk living in your area at the time of British colonialism, and how would you characterize what lady was doing with his being a monk living in colonial times, how would you contrast that with what we Zahra was choosing to do?

Zaw Win Htet 35:19

As I already said, We Salah is the national hero for the later people. And mahallesi Raji was the monk who brightest and who follow up the but only in his writings and teachings and also to propagate propagate the Buddhism and Buddhist teachings to the bread and share the Buddha's teachings in Myanmar language assembly for the poor, they're very, very reputable, and we serve at the point of who we are, if he also as for me personally, he if he did not participate in political activities, for example, to protect the the to protect the Myanmar gotcha meme or Buddhist culture, which we respect not to wear the shoes either. So, if he did not protect the gotcha, and if he didn't know, did not dead, if he did not dare do we against the British ruler, the history where we change to another form either to and bommies gotcha, where we also probably disappeared like that. So, anyway, for the point of the fact that monks should not should participate should participate in political activities. I would give you an example. As I already said, I my former my very early age of life was under the teachings of mahabodhi did homesale here since it is candidate, let me say, Actually, I will not like to talk about my personal story, but I also would like to, to share because foreigners also should know the rebirth and also and Poma lives in in English language. So, I have already determined Theodore has a brother named Judy Junya, who does Ania

Host 37:40

and we should say this this has no relation to say rotation near from the shore human tradition which some meditators No no, this is

Zaw Win Htet 37:48

a different part is this different person who does India is mahabodhi detonics era una era does parada, younger brother, and one Buddha was alive. And they were very familiar and friendly to us. And then one day visited my house and then the the monks, the true monks, to my parents, that I was their mother in a former life, oh, wow, goodness. So, this is a relationship with also anger and say, because I followed F, no s tradition, but from my deep heart, I followed the Buddhist teachings. No, no, because my parents are Buddhist, because I was also I also had many relationships with the Buddhist teachings and also Buddha's disciples, who are the monks. So anyway, so mahalo bodhichitta, I will give you an example for, for the fact that monks should participate in political activities. For example, no, dryly. This is also another example. One in Deuteronomy seven, actually Indu danza five and six. It was I as far as I remember, it was very, very hard time and every broadcast every course. Right Bri prices are getting higher at the time, and then be we're having difficult lives daily lives because the prices were increased a lot. And also before 2007. Revolution, revolution, my man, my man and his, my memory Hakkasan, frontal, one to mahabodhi john Cerro de to offer do offer meal as a very early breakfast in the dorm time around four o'clock after five o'clock around five or four decently later. So anyway, at the time And as far as I remember, in those times, when the prices were increased a lot, them harborage on Sierra did not accept any offerings and any donations from the BP because he feels very busy on the people, he doesn't want to make the Bieber a burden for him like that. So after that, when the prices go down, and then when we talked about it with theologie. And then he said, I am also one of the society. I'm also one of the poorest society. So this is politics, also related to every buddy, everybody in the society. That's why, and in this from this point, I'm also supporting the fact that monks also should participate in a proper way in political activities. So not only as like, lady said of God, and He is the role model of reversing our meditation and every other Buddhist teachings.

Host 41:10

Right, so how would you characterize mahabodhi town say it has involvement in society? How was he being involved in the society of the day?

Zaw Win Htet 41:21

All right, at some hidden stories, I send I think he should you can guess what I mean, but I don't want to show you all the story, poverty, the town zero set to our family as a question to our family, and be very, very, very poor in the dark times, as we say, in the before will democratic transition. So he said, he has our family to you, like, even apart, even about does not like to be arrested in the cage. So what he also usually tried to participate in political activities, not as a rally not as a very issue of only very hidden, very behind behind the best vision. He was also telling to release the brazenness

Host 42:31

right, very subtle ways. So there's different ways that it might not be so much a question should monks participate in the outside world or not? It's more a question to what extent and how are they participating? Because you're showing very subtle and careful ways that he's been involved? Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Right. So we talked about a little lady said, many people are familiar with him, and you gave a brief background of UI Zahra. We've talked a little bit about mahabodhi townside. He's extremely well known in Myanmar, one of the most well known monks of the last 50 years, surely. But I think for meditators outside of me and Mar they've probably had very little access with his teachings and his life. Can you give us a little bit of background about him?

Zaw Win Htet 43:16

Can I tell the biography stories of his life? Sure. In brief,

Host 43:22

sure. And his teachings Yeah,

Zaw Win Htet 43:24

yes. And actually, my body this town's hero is very well known for his podamos de pavana, meditation and what that means, that means kind of contemplation, a kind of meditation, which records the added use of Buddha who is free from defilements who is pre from Mandal impurities, so do brightest. And now we can get our clear mind, when we are regarding his deduce, we are also added at the moment at the very short moment, we are also free from anger, free from danger and free from worries especially personally for me, every time I get worries, every day I get very angry, I usually pray this Buddha knows that the governor so why he did pray this burden so dibaba, it is doodle his biography life. So in his very young age, at the age of 20, at the age of 20, yes, he, he suffered. He suffered tuberculosis when he was studying Buddhist literature's in Baku in chungu. In in Mandalay at the time he went to the doctor and he Due to treat to take treatment for his disease, but the doctor knew that he, he his disease was very, extremely suffering. He was very thin and also his very his his very thing. So he is very coughing. So, he said, Actually, he did not want to tell him that you are almost dying. That's what my average from zero to our family members. So he doesn't actually he didn't know what to say go back and you're almost dying. But he he said to the monk, he said to our leaders on zero and please let the young monk you go back and is there any Are there many hills in your native area in your region? Yes. And if yes, so, you please go up the hills and walk and also do breathe in fresh air like that. And the time he he wanted to his father's village who is around which is around Manjula and Chung. So he went up the hills, and he had a very hard life. And he has only one roof. And he lived in a only very small height. When the rain comes, he was what when the rain stopped and when the sun rises, his rope Gods ride very hard life. So And finally, after one year, he went back to the doctor, and he checked and then he was completely feeling well. So what he usually makes like a joke to our family as a friendly manner. He usually says that I want to, I am afraid to die afraid of death, I am afraid of death. That's why I did meditation a lot. I do meditation a lot. He always said that. And also he is disbelief also accepted by all the disciples of mahabodhi to Tom monastery as well.

Host 47:31

And he had royal blood didn't he? Pardon, he was connected to the royal family wasn't he?

Zaw Win Htet 47:37

Actually it will be related to the reverse and pomar lives. So, he, he has he won he suffered the disease and he he thought he was also dying. And then finally, he made a mind if I am dying, I will offer my life to Buddha. And then he made a pilgrimage to Mandela Hill and at the bottom or Mandalay Bay, and he found a monk. Now who sorrow His name is his monk who name is Nanda Doria, the monk lived like a crazy monk. And he lived in very dodgy robes. And he lived in the knee or his monastery was surrounded by bushes at the time. He wasn't in the monastery. And when he saw the monk, and he breathed and he offered a hue he want he said to him, I want to take the refuge of you and do take meditation method to learn from you how to meditate, either he learned from him. That monk is the grandson of gaming though and the British colony. British government also offered him an ordinary award nangang hora de angama Reza means that achievement of Sangha Society of monks like that, so anyway, he he did not accept the announcer nonzero as to not upset mahabodhi the tone zero at once. Do we his disciple, and then he tried many he tested many things. Finally, he tried to one test. He bought a dead body, many, many days, or that the dead body of a dog. And then he put on the table and then he had lunch after he collected his food. And then my buddy john said Oh, the young monk also was sitting and also having lunch but He could not tolerate to we do this smell of the dead bodies on the dock and then he oh oh my master why not you abandoned this dead body of the dogs and he pulled away. So now you said to him Oh, very good man Very good, thank you ladies Thank you are very good except the dead body or dog that is up the desk or the dead body or dog like that

Host 50:31

that was a test what that was a test what was it testing him on

Zaw Win Htet 50:35

test to test his patience to test his tolerance to be at a cyber or him if he is very enthusiastic to learn how to meditate. He just want to try to test him.

Host 50:53

So did he pass the test or not

Zaw Win Htet 50:56

only the last test with a dead body or dog

Host 50:59

right? This was like a super practice

Zaw Win Htet 51:01

and the other the other the other Deathwatch he passed the other test and also the noun cod is very Australian, in his extremely hungry I see in his radius of living in the forest, living under the tree living nor living in the house not living in the building. to tango practice, do danga Yes, exactly.

Host 51:29

mahabodhi to town Sarah,

Zaw Win Htet 51:31

what do you do? also one of the hills and also practice meditation, and especially porosity Bhavana. And he came relieved from his disease.

Host 51:46

I see. And today mahabodhi to town say it as that's that's his name, right

Zaw Win Htet 51:52

but yes, exactly. Right. Yeah, yes. Okay,

Host 51:56

so today, Bodhi to town Santa in monywa his monastery is pretty unique. There's some some features that are very unusual other monasteries Can you describe that?

Zaw Win Htet 52:06

Yeah. Actually body the tongue means body means wisdom, insight, knowing body means and the Tao means one doctor, one one he was suffering the disease he was living in a very small hut and the bank, bow tree and the banyan tree since the bow tree is the banyan tree is under the banyan tree under the Bodhi tree Buddha attained enlightenment. So, we also pay respect to do the trick to this type of tree. So, when he was living in a small hut under the tree and very small, very very small trees grown under the big trees, this is a good sign and then at the time be better thought be better oh this is not a good sign and then a bad for him Okay, it is not a good sign and if I have to die, if that because I am growing these trees, smaller trees in the bots and to grow to grow the trees if I have to die, I don't care and I will die. And then he started to grow the trees. And then he was hated as he was also relieved. And then he was invited by his by his anger by him by his father's village people one his anger monk passed away in a monastery where the BodyTalk monastery is now. So, anyway, he requests he asked the village people, villagers, if you can give me a land to grow the trees, I will move I will accept your invitation I will recite in this mode in your monastery. But if you cannot give a land I will not. So and this the villagers by purchase small acres of land and finally he grew the trees both trees and with a half off now with a Otto who is his master. Now with the hover his master and he tried to grow 1000s and 1000s of trees. And then he was he became well known as political theater there monk of 1000 boo trees

Host 54:37

I see and now

Zaw Win Htet 54:39

he has he had grown 10 1000s or trees when he was alive.

Host 54:45

So he surpassed his goal.

Zaw Win Htet 54:47

Yeah, but the name the name or the name of the ministry did not was not changed into body damage.

Host 54:54

Yeah, so there's many body trees if you go today,

Zaw Win Htet 54:57

yes. Right. Yeah, you will see from the The second world's largest, the world's second largest provider, study Buddha and also from the mountains, you will see very green areas of the topic a hot area. In that area. He developed them Lake, he developed the dams and the electricity and schools he built a lot of development.

Host 55:22

So this whole region was impacted with him there the people's lives became better with some of these initiatives that he was doing and, and then also, as you mentioned, he he built there's a standing Buddha, Reclining Buddha and a city in Buddha, all three of which are gigantic in size, approaching from miles and miles around you just see the countryside, you see the heat kind of boiling off the countryside, as it as you look down the horizon and then far, far away, you see these images kind of joking above this, this vast, vast rural landscape. Yes, yes. Yeah. But that was his design.

Zaw Win Htet 56:02

Yeah, he designed and he designed and he made the drawings by himself. And one very interesting story is he usually wanted to build the Buddha statues and pagodas in in which inside India is a hollow type, but that's unusual in Myanmar that is his non usual to do Myanmar. But this is his own wish and his own design.

Host 56:35

Why did he want him Hello?

Zaw Win Htet 56:36

Okay, before I for example, when he started to build a big pagoda at the bottom of the hill, where the standard Buddha and Reclining Buddha and is built at the bottom of the hill, double Buddha that you will see the Golden Buddha. Like Shwedagon Pagoda. Dabba Gouda is the first Giant Buddha he built. So he wanted to build a hollow type inside the Buddha at the time he designed but one of his friends who is also became famous being Beulah, Congleton, zero and he wondered, he doesn't want own please do not build a hollow dive inside, only build like a solid type. And he he never he never made a quarrel to him because he is like a brother for him. So and then, before the start, they started the construction. And then that monk was invited by Bueller Bueller monastery to recite and then he moved there and Mahajan, zero could build on his own will, the holotype. The holiday wine he wants to build holiday is like insight inside the inside the guru or inside the Buddha. It is like a cliff in Yama, traditional traditions and books. And also in booms. In the Himalayas, the Buddha, a hertz has lived in the cave, Nanda mu cave, like in Ananda dumbbell impact. So he also wanted to build the holodeck inside.

Host 58:39

So we wanted it to feel like a meditative cave. Yes. And there's also one of the statues has the 31 planes of existence, right? Yes. So you can actually as you walk up the statue to get the view, you pass from the hill realms to the highest diva realm. Yes, yeah. And I haven't been there. But I guess each Each floor has information about that realm.

Zaw Win Htet 58:58

Yes. I was. I was thinking to translate those writings, but it couldn't happen yet.

Host 59:07

He was also influenced by weights of practice, is that correct? Exactly. Yeah. Can you explain what weights is

Zaw Win Htet 59:13

very interesting. Because my family was to follow his path. So without Brady's is another type of another type or radius and nor mainly connected to Tera vaada Buddhism, let me know say, it comes from higher now whatever, let me know see this. But it's all in the belief of our leukerbad around Mahabharata ministry and also the discipline in the society in the community of the disciples are mahabodhi to zero with a pride This is also a very, very good how fu mud To celebrate the Buddha's teachings to, to the great, amazing things. For example, he could, he did or he developed this area stanny Buddha, not only poda not only campus and monastery but also the schools and many other things he developed. And also his monasteries are also in Yangon. And also in the US in New York, in England, so many monasteries he could build anyway. So he could do this with the help of his apprentice as well. To say exactly, he landed, not only meditation but also with the brightest from una and Adria. Then, now say Otto, who is the grandson of commando

Host 1:00:55

what type of weights or practice did you do?

Zaw Win Htet 1:00:58

Okay, me, how can we? Yes, okay. Me, actually in in a Western in the West. I also have read books about alchemy, and uden also tried I read about that, but not sure. So anyway, it might be it will. It is very, very different from the western alchemy in our aura artist stories, as I already said, my grandmother's and nighttime stories, our kingdom of Nehemiah was built by was very, very flourishing with Buddhism, would they have or she is our governor? Who is the who is a wizard, and who tried with our brightest. And then his eyes were taken out taken off by Nick King, because he didn't know best to make to make the gold from his alchemy. alchemy. So anyway, began the issue moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo. Amin's, go, rain, silver rains in beggar. That's why today, we basically believe that that time that ancient people could build a lot of temples and vocoders with the help of Ghana, who is a waiter?

Host 1:02:26

So it was the it was the wachesaw practitioners that allowed the Theravada Buddhist practice to become established for the first time and then flourish throughout Myanmar. This is what you're saying?

Zaw Win Htet 1:02:38

Yes, yes. Since that time, in a chemist in via modulation alkemist history, we can say that it status from an era.

Host 1:02:49

Right, right. And so there's the weights, conversation. This is a whole other topic that we don't have time to develop delve into now, but it is another kind of practice practice that exists in Myanmar in here with Bodie, the town said, we see someone who is practicing Vipassana and other techniques from the scriptures, and as you talked about the budino Sati and, and other meditative practices, but he's also a weight sub practitioner and so it's not quite so black and white in terms of what he represents or what he's practicing,

Zaw Win Htet 1:03:28

he has the main essence, and the main essence of his use of alchemy is not just not only alchemy, as you said combination of both and lucidity, parvana, meditation and also with alchemy combination. So the main essence is not for greed, not for our Libby's family, bro bless, not for our, for our world, but only it should be brightest for spreading the Buddha's teachings and so invisible tradition with us, come have you to celebrate Buddha's teachings and also to bedevil good as stupid attemp is like,

Host 1:04:16

right, right. And this could be something that for foreigners who are practicing some traditional form of a passion outside in their countries, and they they have this image of Myanmar being the place where all these compassionate techniques were maintained and then shared. Learning about the diversity of practice here and yeah, different levels of, of engagement that that that exist, it can sometimes be confusing seen where it all fits together. Yeah. Where how it all makes a complete picture.

Zaw Win Htet 1:04:47

Yeah, that's for the brain as it will also be a very different brightness as well.

Host 1:04:54

Right. Right. And so mahabodhi telling say it was one of the great monks and teachers of the last 50 years, certainly very recognizable in Myanmar. And you say that he and his brother informed your family that you were actually the mother from a previous lifetime? How did that when actually I should say when did you learn that? How old were you, when you were informed of that and how did that make you feel

Zaw Win Htet 1:05:20

as a relationship with a Buddhist monk in Myanmar, we live to have to have a chai and a monk to have a son as a monk, as a monk for his whole life, it is a very, very great, very great place for her or for the appearance, it is also a good deed. So, the parents cannot go to the hell are the parents cannot live like Canada, it is a good distance, it is a good deed. There are Buddhists who has caught the sun as a monk and as a man and then they can reborn they can take a have they can read they can be reborn as a human being like that to us as I have not, I have I cannot see any information because I cannot know these very, very mysterious thing this is a mysterious thing but only to do here only to hear his scenes. And our family also believed that that's why we have to to code Maris Cody's more and more and more, and also to support the Buddha sasana Buddha's teachings to the Buddha Dhamma Sangha, the monks, either. So this is our personal belief from How old were you when you were informed?

Host 1:06:56

2626? Yeah, was did it come as a shock to you? Or did it come as a surprise or a shock to learn this?

Zaw Win Htet 1:07:03

You mean, I was shocked to hear I was reborn. I was his from his mother.

Host 1:07:11

Yeah, were were you shocked to hear that?

Zaw Win Htet 1:07:14

Actually. I will say completely. My one my mother had me in her pregnancy. And then they said oh, I said to other disciples, to the, to the to the other BBA in Maja Don't lie. He, I even met her in the pagoda festival very recently. He said at the time, no, X ray, no ultrasound. So my mother didn't know, take ultrasound at the time. So but Theodore said that, well, we have why. And he said this, he will be the most beautiful. And then the lady goes his mask as a belief or his mother. But as for me, instead of the I was shocked, but I i since I knew this information. I practice the Buddha's teachings more and more in my daily life. It is the most beautiful means I have to make my mind as the most beautiful possible.

Host 1:08:31

right? If the seda and his brother knew this, from the time that you were in the womb, and then after being born, I wonder if it affected the way they related to you? Did they relate to you with this warmth and affection and gratitude of having been your mother and a former incarnation? Or did they put this knowledge somewhere else and recognize you for what you were in this life has been a young boy like any other young boy and they're, they're a monk who has a responsibility and duty to any young boy they meet how how did this knowledge affect their relationship with you?

Zaw Win Htet 1:09:10

Ah, they that's since they knew that I was his mother in in the former life, the mate, very Memorial teachings and our families in our life. So two very, very precious teachings. His teachings are very, very precious for our daily life practice.

Host 1:09:36

I'm also just thinking if I was in his place, and there was someone that was so close and so dear to me that that I had such a personal connection with and and passed away. And then I knew somehow with certainty that that this baby is that other being reborn, that's another level of kind of detachment and not because I would want to transfer All of my love and previous connection from another lifetime into this new life. And I would not want to let go of that other relationship, you know, I would want to everything that other relationship meant I would want to impose that onto the new relationship. Yeah, to not lose that feeling with how important that person had been to me. And yet, this, if you believe in karma, believe that this, this is a next lifetime. Even though it's a next lifetime, they have no memory or knowledge of who they were in a former relationship. So I put myself in their position and wonder how they would be able to relate to what is now their mother, but doesn't remember being their mother.

Zaw Win Htet 1:10:46

Yeah. As for me, I also do not have any memory. If I was his mother or not, I have no memory, only believing his sayings, and I have to make my life more beautiful and beautiful with the teachings or him and with the teachings of Buddha.