Transcript: Episode #140: Myanmar’s Voices for Freedom (Panel Discussion)
Following is the full transcript for the interview with these panelists, which was released on December 30, 2022. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
00:00
To show your job thr Boyle knew the key to the low limit. HR stay dollar Hey guys, late y'all Kuva Dagon face
Insight Myanmar 00:27
so you're about to listen to a panel discussion that was recorded live on December 14. It was the first online panel that we've hosted. However, based on the positive feedback we received from the attendees, we hope to host more panels in the future. I do want to express my great appreciation for Zoe Wilde and Lily Dolberg of one light global, as well as the unifying nonprofit for their tremendous work and supporting this particular panel. I don't think I need to describe the panel's five special guests here, as they share about themselves in detail throughout the entirety of the conversation and have also appeared on previous full length interviews with insight Myanmar podcast, our show notes provide links to those episodes, as well really a special opportunity to be able to dialogue with several guests at one time. And as you'll hear the conversation that developed was lively and dynamic. Do keep in mind that in this conversation, in contrast to our usual podcast interviews, it is entirely unedited. This approach is new for us. So we would be interested in hearing about your feedback about how you think the panel went. And for anyone that would like to see as well as listen to the panel guests as they speak. We invite you to check out the video feed by following the YouTube link in the show description. Finally, please keep in mind that because the five panelists we're all connecting from different parts of the world and using different technologies you may notice some different sound quality we thank all of our listeners for their continued interest in the situation and Myanmar. And with that, let's get into
02:05
it add in a way that relates to have a good day yeah. Maybe me. Welcome, everyone, I'm Zoe Wilde, founder and executive director of one light global humanitarian organization working with refugees and indigenous communities around the world. And I am so honored to be here with you today, with Insight Myanmar from better Burma to host this live panel, voices for freedom with five incredible revolutionaries from Myanmar, who are each fighting the tatmadaw in their own way fighting for freedom for the people for human rights for all of us. So our aim today is to raise awareness about the crisis in Myanmar, it seems to be one that so many people are really just haven't heard about and that the media is not covering. And also to share with you a fundraiser that better Burma and win like global have been raising funds for to build nine refugee schools or Burmese children and also to provide food medicine and water and other direct aid for 2000 villagers in two villages that have been burned down repeatedly by the military. So we have Lily here to cover the technical, so anyone has any questions? background noises so if you can mute yourself if you're not talking, you can put any questions in the chat box and also she will provide the link to the fundraiser if you would like to contribute. Insight Myanmar would you like to begin by introducing Ashton Sarena
Insight Myanmar 04:57
Yeah, I just start Uh, I thank everyone for for being here and joining us. I run better Verma and also insight Myanmar podcasts. This is the first panel that we've done. So we and the whole group behind her has just been so wonderful in, in, in organizing this and this fundraiser for these projects we're doing as well as to share information about what's going on in Myanmar with message Canada. And, and so before we saw, I'm just checking to see if our next guest is online, I think he is, we would like to begin with a shin Sarna setting some some well wishes and some reminders of mindfulness and good intentions to this panel. And so shins are gonna if you're on if you can, you can take three to five minutes and, and welcome us
06:05
Russians joining now, while waiting for him. I'll just mention that many years ago, in 2006 to 2008, I lived in Myanmar. And while I was there witnessed the saffron uprising, Saffron Revolution. And so this and Insight Myanmar has lived also in Myanmar for many more years than I did. And so this issue is just so close to our hearts. And we want to thank you so much for taking the time to turn your attention to this to this crisis. We know that there's so much going on in the world and it can feel really overwhelming. And it takes a lot of courage and compassion to continue turning towards the truth rather than away. So thank you again everyone for being here.
Insight Myanmar 06:56
And with that I see that a shin Sarna is on Yes, sorry. No, you missed my brief introduction. If you can take the next three to five minutes and lead us in some some good wishes and welcome and open the pedal are he messaged that he's not he seen seems like he's not allowed to turn his camera on. If that's the case, he can just speak to us in audio so you can
Ashin Sarana 07:25
give me the permission to turn on my camera, because it seems that you have prohibited and so go ahead and try now. Nice. Okay, so it's a pleasure to see you everybody here. So Insight Myanmar invited me to, to share with you, the center some of my encouragement for everyone here and for this meeting. I think it would be great if we consider not just the difficulties that we have in our lives, but also the difficulties of others all around the world, regardless of their race, religion, of their color, or any other differences. All of us deserve to be happy, all of us deserve to be in peace. So I would like to thank and encourage everyone here to that you're coming here that you're joining. Joining us in this attempt in this effort in this great endeavor, and hard work to provide peace for everyone regardless of their beliefs or of their physical or mental differences. So I would like to invite everyone for two minutes. Silence in which we can wish in which we can allow permit, sometimes it's difficult to allow or permit others to enjoy at least as much peace at least as much comfort, at least as much health and happiness that we have right now. We have clothes, we have a roof above our head. We get food to eat. We do not have people coming into our houses and threatening us with harm. So These are things that we right now have, we just have to accept that very fact. And allow that everyone in this world has it to. Just like we want to have these things, just like we wish that these things are commonplace, obvious everyday thing. We need to train ourselves in allowing, permitting, wishing everyone else to also find these things to be their commonplace to be the obvious thing for them. Unfortunately, many people in this world find these things, that means having clothes on their bodies having a roof above their head, having food every day, to be a luxury. So let's take two minutes to wish to allow all living beings in this world, maybe search not only those who you find it easy to get these, but also think of those who find it difficult. Are those beings who you think do not deserve these? Well, then they may think that you are those who you love, do not deserve these, right? So we need to start with ourselves and dedicate ourselves to the universal permission for happiness for everyone. Okay, thank you may be happy, may you be healthy, and may you be successful in everything you do.
Insight Myanmar 11:44
Thank you very much. I shouldn't Sarna for kicking the meeting off. Before we go into questions. For our distinguished panelists, we would like to ask each of them to just take a minute, we're have a lot of things we want to pack in here. So if you can just take about 60 seconds and to give an introduction of yourself of your background. And then we'll go into the question parts. So let's start with content if you can give a brief introduction. I
Linn Thant 12:20
mean, thank you very much for joining this meeting, everybody. So I wish you all to be healthy, happy, peaceful and successful. I'm LinkedIn. Right now, I'm the representative of teen energy to the Czech Republic. And former political prisoner, I was the premise president, nearly 20 years. Over 30 years ago, I was sentenced to death. And I was in the death row, nearly eight years. So I didn't see any lights, because the death row is totally black. So every day I overcome with the meditations to have the peace of mind. And I hope for the best. One day I must be free. And I clearly after the 19 years, I was released from prison. And then I joined the EOD Media Group as a journalist.
13:33
And then I became gentleman's
Linn Thant 13:39
during the GentleLASE, my career in Thailand, I met the many people, leaders and other stakeholders had an engages in refugees, and the many people and the final image at verse the Hubble, the president of the Czech Republic, so he will he will love to save my life. And he invited me to be here to Graham's DSLR here in Czech Republic since 2011. Before he passed away, I was awarded the silent near in secret party, still am stateless in Czech Republic. And the am right now on the 42 years ago, it's happened the attempted coup in Burma. And I actively involved in the politics again. Finally, I became the representative to the Czech Republic. And I'm working for the new tea national unity government of member. Thank you very much. Very nice to meet you.
Insight Myanmar 14:53
Thank you very much for that introduction. Next, let's go to theory if you can introduce yourself
15:06
nomming lava. So good evening, everyone who are in the western part of the world. So my name is theory and I am I'm drunk. I live in Myanmar after the coup for exactly for a year. So I left the country on the lake, February's February 2 of 2022. And before that, I've been working as a researcher for human rights and mostly documenting human rights abuses in the conflict areas since since before the coup. I also work with the international media and reporting about the Civil and Political Rights, broader spectrum of rights, rights issue and media in Myanmar. Really nice meeting you all. And thank you for giving your time to listen to our stories in our life. Thank you so much.
Insight Myanmar 16:03
Thank you, let's hear an introduction from Piaggio.
Victor 16:15
Hi, everyone, Sukhmani because it's Molly here. And I'm not who and from Myanmar and like a doctor. And, yeah, as you know, as a gay man growing in Myanmar, I have a lot to struggle, even before the coup. So after the coup, I went to the Korean at becames. And worked there for a year together with the refugees. And then now I'm in a safer place because of my health condition. So I can continue working in the jungle, so I'm here. And right now, I'm still working on. I'm still doing teleconsultations. And I do fundraising for the IDP camps. And I'm still fighting for our treaty rights. Thank you so very much. Thank you.
Insight Myanmar 17:15
Let's hear from Makita.
17:20
Mengelola
Ma Thida 17:22
thank you so much for joining us. And I was trained as a medical doctor. But at the end of my medical school, that was 1988 protest. And our movement started there. So I took part in the demonstration. And then I joined NLD as kind of the person for the Information section. And then in 1993, we were against the National Convention, which aim to draw the trust, trough of the current 2008 constitution and I was sentenced to 20 years imprisonment, but I spent five years six months there. And I did serious reverse Allah meditation inside the prison that saved my life. So since then, ever been I always looking for chance to practice my meditation practice. And I keep doing both on my carrier. I have been recognized as a short story writer since I was 19. So both of my carrier grew together, and then I run so many periodicals, magazines and journals. And I also work as a practicing surgeon at Muslim free hospitals for so long. And then I had to make it short. I now I'm chairing the writer in prison comedy of pain to national I left my country last year. But I keep my status as Myanmar citizens and I was joining the Southeast Asian Studies at the University and then I was now I'm currently under the writer in residency program in Europe and I keep doing my work as a writer, journalist and then the kind of the human rights advocate slash activist. Thank you.
Insight Myanmar 19:32
Thank you for that. Let's finish with an introduction from the artist part was not here
Bart Was Not Here 19:41
am I Am I unmuted Okay, perfect. Hi. My name is Bob was not here. My Burmese name is Jamal Cayenne was born in Burma in 1996. I lived there all my life I went to I went to college in another country but I came back to Burma because it was like, it was blooming after 2015. It was, it was gaining momentum. And it was a fun time. So I went back to the country and set up the studio instead of started working as a, as an artist. Growing up in Burma, I was born to a Muslim family. So it was like, totally, you know, terrible growing up. But I think a lot of I spent a lot of time making not just drawing, I painted, I drew, I made stuff. And that kind of pretty much saved me. And I started, I stumbled upon art around eighth grade, and I started painting on the streets. And I was, like, getting into legal troubles all the time. And I got arrested and beaten and all the time. But all that aside from is pretty fun. It's, it has its good things it has its bad things. But when the coup happened in 2021, I joined the protests as an artist, as a citizen, I am not really keen on politics. I, most of my work was satirical, I like making fun of things. So I was never serious about politics. But when the coup happened, I was just joining as a citizen, and I was pretty much scoring the, the protests in the revolution, I really loved my role in it. So I got involved deeper and deeper and deeper, and I started actually taking on other tasks as well. And then things just started getting out of hand, and it got very dramatic. And then I had to leave the country. So I left the country on 2021, June, and I was an artist in residence in France. And I did that for almost like, eight months, I guess. And then I moved to America, where my family, my extended family is, and I joined them here.
Insight Myanmar 22:22
Thank you so much. Just wow, what a collection of people. I'm just so honored that you all are joining us for this following discussion. And I'm so thankful for everyone who showed up to listen. With that. Let's get this started. And so he has a first question.
Linn Thant 22:40
Yeah, it's so
22:41
incredible what everyone has has done and been through. And that you're all here. And I love Bart, that you were just saying, you know, there's so much that's so beautiful about Myanmar. And so it's so much fun, as well as so much pain and suffering. So for many people in the audience, they really don't know what's happening. In Myanmar, it's not in the news here, the way that Ukraine or Iran or some other countries are every day in the New York Times and other news outlets. And it's just one of the most striking aspects of this crisis, that even the most compassionate and well informed groups that I know often don't know what's happening, may not even know where Myanmar is to be honest. And also have trouble in this time, knowing what to believe in the media. So I was hoping that perhaps Lin or whoever feels called could explain what is happening in Myanmar for someone who hasn't has no idea
Insight Myanmar 23:53
Yeah, let's let's take that question the length and length and a few you can you can give a for those tuning in who maybe haven't followed this crisis for the last two years if you can give us a brief overview of of what's been happening and what you're striving for.
Linn Thant 24:09
Thank you very much for your questions. The festival, you know, the everybody knows about the attempted coup that I've mentioned that this is not a coup. This is attempted good. Because, you know, the all of the populations in Myanmar don't accept the military rule and they're attempting to steal they cannot rule the country across the country. By the very first day, and Myanmar, the people they feel it. They're willing their votes were rejected in the very peacefully protesting against the military RU. Military attempted coup in Burma, very peacefully. But they got back, you know, brutally attacked to the peaceful demonstrators for instance. And then the people they feed it, you know, they have to protect their lives by their stuff. So till now, they are over the 2500s over being killed. This is just the only we have the valid documents and appellate informations but we've got to get another information. So reports that over the 6000 people have been killed and Birdman began many of the victims they waited and find out we cannot find out who are they and who are they because they secretly killed the people, especially activist, artist and the leaders, some community leaders, religious leaders and religious members. Across the country right now, the they detain arrested over the 13 1000s people. Most of them as activists, and civilians and generation sees, we call it chances and the on the other hand, they brutally you know, crack down to the peaceful demonstration but on the things that people still peacefully protesting against the military rule in some areas and Burma, including, you know, the Sekine and McQuaid divisions. How Burmese peoples love the peace, stone on the streets, peacefully protesting against the military rule. And they don't accept the military, as the military. Or people teach the mind it's to fight for the freight and as much as they can be devoted stay have to win, they must win. Finally, there are people they feel it you know, the military is a terrorist again, the military, it's lack of the responsibility to protect the citizens of the Myanmar be the military itself. Killing looting, arresting, torturing its own people its own scene to sense its own Zenith residence. That's when the people of Myanmar they feel it's them. We don't have the military we have the military is disowned a terrorist group. There are over 20 townships over the you know, 1000s of the houses spent the last year you remember that Christmas Eve in the current estates. Over the 48 people, including the young children and infants were being killed, Bantu killed and dead to have the you know, the safety of my children, sovereigns also being planned to kill international communities. They just only listened can they just only hear some part of the process from Myanmar, but the tone here, they cannot hear heavy productive voices from Yemen. This floor is a very good opportunity for us to have people voices can be heard by the international community. So we have a pee wee in there. So feeling that you know, this is the revelation we the people, Myanmar lives matters. We have the right to defend ourselves. We have the right to live our life peacefully and securely. That's fine so people decided to make it revolutions. We have right now the over the 360 special ins. We call it a PDF and other local PDF and Burnham they are fighting against the terrorists military coup, to have the freedom to have the peace to give to sustainable security in Yemen. Unfortunately, we, our revolution is running on our self especially fundings. It's depends on only famous people, and it has borders and across the country across the globe. We don't have the any iteration of physical support yet. We have the politically support from international governments, the Burmese people, they feel it, you know, they don't want to get any statements concerning statements. They just want to KEF physical assistance, especially humanitarian crisis, humanitarian assistance. The Myanmar military, we call it a terrorist military. The misuse the International AIDS has the weapons positions. So but international teaches No, that's the they donate it to the some organizations to have the humanitarian crisis. But these aids are going to the military funds, some international investments and also international supports. Myanmar is going to the military to do the terrorist task in X. Recently, some of the my colleagues or a political activists were executed in prison. The very notorious prison in Burma is in prisons. It was really hurtful to us. And they were very briefly to fight against Democrats democracy, and freedom for many years. Jimmy and Moncho so they were very actively involved in democracy and human rights, activity activities, and Bera. Pusey, I thought he was the hip hop, attics, singer, and he was the member of the parliament. And Jimmy, he was also former political prisoner deputy former political prisoners very secretly, and they were executed. It was really sadness. On the other hand, is another you know, the political prisoners and activists who were sentenced to death are very concerning to be executed. A few weeks ago, we've got the some very bad news from Burma. The seven university students, they will be they could be executed. The international community is just saying that they just consent but stay alive. It is sure that it's not enough to issue the statements to end impunity in Burma to end the brutality in Burma, international communities and unitedly support to the our NUJ government, and unitedly to support to the end UCC and unilaterally to support the ER O's in Italy to support to the PTF we don't want the war. We don't want the battle inevitably. We had to choose this way. We didn't want to fight with the Khans. Formally people said very lovely. We love gentle slide. Every year every month, famous people they always used to light if the light came to mind to have the peace. But right now the teachers, the lawyers, the doctors, the nurses, they became the freedom fighters. It is really sad to our community. They didn't want to be fighting didn't want to be fighters. They just wanted to be the professionals. But the terrorist groups push them to be fighters especially Chile, Indonesia, that community just mentioned its Burma is in the Dockage. But they should try to seduce the people of Myanmar actively effectively. It will be very useful for the people who have Myanmar to end the brutality to end the military dictator in Burma. Thank you very much.
35:32
Thank you. I'm so sorry to hear about your your colleagues, and the many people that have died. And I'm curious, why do you think it is that the international community doesn't respond in the same way they have to other crises around the world?
Linn Thant 35:58
Think the international communities they know about the situations in Burma very well, but they didn't want to take the responsible to support the people that we need. If the respects to human rights, if the respective democracy if if the respect to you know, rule of law, they should support the people of Myanmar because the military Hunter, the very close to the Russians terrorists putting in pride now. So they should know about these situations. They should be aware of it. Why they are sleeping? I don't know why. Thank you very much. May I interject?
Bart Was Not Here 36:50
Think it's part of the problem. Part of the reason could be that our leader defended a genocide on TV. And then things went downhill from there.
37:03
When you say you're your leader, do you? Are you referring to on Stein sushi? Yep.
Bart Was Not Here 37:09
When things were good, people weren't really compassionate. You know, when, during the NLD rule, everybody was carry on carrying on their business. And nobody really cared about other people's well being
37:27
for those who don't know what the NLD is, can you just
Bart Was Not Here 37:30
No, the US National League of democracy, but you know, I think hindsight is always 2020. I was not, I was nowhere near can carrying myself when when I was back in 2019. I was just doing my job as an artist. So it's a lot of moving parts involved. That's just what I think.
37:57
Thank you. I see my Tito has her hand up. And that was also a perfect segue to Joe's next question. So I'll let Insight Myanmar take it from here.
Insight Myanmar 38:06
Sure. Actually, I, I had a I have a question for for theory, but on this topic, but before we go there, my theta, you have something to say?
Ma Thida 38:20
Yeah, I just want to mention about, you know, the problem. The challenge is not just for us, but also for the whole war. It's directly related to the right to information. You know, we having gone through five decades of the censorship, not just censorship make us intellectually blind, the propaganda serious propaganda hit us very, very badly. That's why, for example, lies in the warding the term Rohingya has been totally abolish, because of the 1962 printing act, because of the censorship. So the younger generation and the general public never ever heard of this words. So that's the thing. You know, a lot of people are not very well exposed to some of the bigger picture of the country in sight. So that's make us more intellectually blind, but at the same time, since we don't have enough information, and then the whole war, the rest of the war, I think, the problem of the international community is they still don't have enough information about us what's going on what's happened to us, that's also, you know, for me in this era of the information pandemic, the thing is, in terms of Right to Information, this is not just responsible for the journalists, but also for the active citizens of the globe. You know, we just need to use our rights and our freedom to reach out to every single information we supposed to know. Otherwise, our activism will be very much specific and very narrow down. That's why I encourage even though your local media cannot talk about Burma, why don't you just actively looking for what's going on in the wall, because every single day after the first February, last year, 2021, every single day, there is a protest or the resistance inside my country. So the resistance is going on the fighting, and the cruelty by the military, it's very, very hot. So I think the even for the our passion or our kind of the kindness it should be active to it cannot be just responsive to the news, what you have been seeing, or you have been just informed, we should use our active loving kindness. And we should use our active with reaching out to the information, otherwise, we cannot be the active citizens of the globe. That's I just want to mention.
Insight Myanmar 41:29
Thank you for that. I want to go next with a question for theory because theory was uniquely positioned to be reporting on collecting evidence with the Rohingya crisis in the early stages. And we're now talking about a lack of general international support for Myanmar, which may come from a number of reasons and conditions. One of those that we hear we heard just today and that we've heard from many in the international community is that they are confused, to put it mildly and greatly upset and disturbed by what happened with the Rohingya crisis and don't understand exactly how that relates to what's going on today. And that has made some paralysis or hesitation and the kind of support that seen, I want to move the question to theory and ask what your thoughts are concerning the connection between what's going on today and the Rohingya crisis and perhaps help to educate some of the audience here. That might be hesitating to support the democracy movement, because they were uncomfortable with what went down with this crisis before.
42:43
Thank you, Insight Myanmar for your questions. And also, like my other fellow panelists has addressed like explaining about the country so before going to the Rangers, genocide against Rangers, I would like to just briefly wrap up what's happening in your mind what has been happening in Myanmar, like I'm in my 30s but 30 years before I was born, I isn't since then, we've been we've been going through the Civil War in the country just like Colombia in the arms conflict happenings and since since after the independence so there's that we have a we have a conflict the arms conflict civil war has has been happening in the country with the country with the with the longest one of the longest civil war. And there is a fight unions against them, then we call it dump requite I don't want to call them them at all, I want to call them sit that deliberately so with with one group, which is known as Myanmar military and a bunch of other ethnic minority, and they're there, they've been fighting for their self determination. So this result of this we have been happening a civil war for a very long time. That's one conflict, a split of it. And then after two dominant tall, the new it has been there but like after Donald Trump more prevalent is a is a genocidal crime against Rangers, Rangers minority Muslims in Rakhine State. So that has been regarded as the genocide recently by the US USD department as well. So we have a genocide of the 21st century happening in our country. So it's it there's another another aspect of the conflict that we have, and the perpetrator is the same Myanmar military, it's, it's that it's the one perpetrating against the genocidal crime against the the minority Rangers, Muslims in the country. And then in 2021, we entered into downing 20. We voted for the we voted in the election, but then the same military the same said To didn't went outside to find with the with the voting result, and then our vote was stolen and they staged the coup in process. I was like, the ambassador said, this is a coup. But it's more like attempting coup because the coop is not finished yet, because we are still resisting every day, and people still resisting. So the military is not in control of the of the country yet. That's why I would name it as a coding process. It's not finished. That's why we're still fighting. We're talking about this. So if all those things are the same, all the crime, different kinds of crime, the international crime, the word crime, the crime, genocide or crime, and also there's like crime against the whole population, this, this, the coop is like a is a crime against the whole population, before they would target the selected groups of people, but now as a whole population, and then we in the military is the one perpetrating the crime against our perpetrating crime against us and also threatening life and safety of individual people in our country. So not to be confused with the light why we shouldn't why we should support Newmar, while you guys deny and publicly deny the suffering of the Ranger, which is actually a, you know, it's a very ugly and very sad history that we have to carry on, which I'm not proud of. But in terms of the public, yeah, the denial itself is there were a lot of layers, I'm not justifying, but the state, yes, committed the crime. And also one part of the state committed the crime, one part of the state defense, defended this defendant of a crime for whatever reason, and then but the general population, there are a lot of narratives happening around and then a lot of people like Knight Sumatera said before, we will get out of the war and people, even the people in the country, they may not be aware of the a lot of the may not be aware of this thing. But it's so no matter what gender is, it has happened that we need to we need to acknowledge it. But the thing is the same perpetrator happening, and if we keep the perpetrator in that place, it will be the violation will be from one group to another. So they are the one causing all the violence against Rohingya, and the other one committed and genocide. So if you don't want to step in, with our if your relatives, do I understand your relative or your hesitancy in supporting your mother, this is the same military, if we don't push out, we won't be able to get the justice for Rohingya or justice, or anyone else. So, so not to be confused. This is like this is a chance for all of us to push out of the military, who is the major source of terror. And who is that institution that is enjoining the culture of impunity. For many years, even before we will, we will want so this is a chance for all of us to push the bad guy out of the space. So that's why we should be supported and we deserve to live, we should be supported not because we are the that the little people from conflict from the conflict setting. No, we deserve to live with dignity, everyone, including Rangers. So that's why we you should help us to you shouldn't save us but you should help us to push the bad guy out so that we can have our own future with safety and security in and with dignity in our daily life. So that does what I want to address.
Insight Myanmar 48:51
Did you have something that?
Bart Was Not Here 48:53
Yeah, to summarize what my theory was saying, when the country would the first coup happened in the 60s. And from that point on the military has been in power. So who killed the students in 1988? The mill the same military who killed the people in 1996, the military who killed a monk in 2007, the military who kept us blind, isolated from the world, not even knowing our have the audacity to ask for our basic rights, the military, who made the people racist the military, through religious propaganda, who made who killed the Rohingya, the military, who took the country in 2021. The military, so for I think, with the Rohingya genocide, they just got a scapegoat in the NLD party to you know, get take the blame for every thing they did. And that's when things got complicated. And for me, 2015 to 2020 was the medicine. It's a pain, man. It's not fighting cancer. So the military is a cancer. And we were not fighting the cancer, we were just using painkiller for five years to ease the pain, and the cancer return in 2021. And now we're actively fighting. All my friends are in jail, friends are dead. Some people I know, gone, some people I know, I don't even have contact anymore. And some people I knew way before the coup who were in the art scene were poets who were becoming curators, they're in jungle with army fatigue on all camo doubt, with weapons, they're like 1618 20, fighting the military with fighter jets, and, you know, Russian bombs. And, yeah, it's basically a case of cancer. We, we inherited it. So the head guy of the military changed, but the cancer never changed. It's the same institution. Some much so that when you I hate the color green at this point, it's it always triggers them strutting down in their uniform and things like that. So it's, it's a, it's a process of curing cancer, what's happening in our country.
Insight Myanmar 51:31
Thank you for that. I want to move the next question to PLPL. Joe. I think you have a very unique perspective as we talk about marginalized people and what how the propaganda has made these different peoples more divisive. On one hand, you came out as gay and a community that was homophobic and not accepting and you struggled with your identity and and finding your place. On the other hand, you then went to Kearney State in the middle of the conflict and you set up a mobile medical tent, in the jungles of Kearney State somewhere, you've never been in something you never did. And through doing this, you saw, as we talked about in our podcast interview together, you realize that as a Bomar you were privileged in ways that these cranium are not and you have not you feel guilty, you expressed guilt and sorrow that you would not use your position as a Bomar in urban society to speak on behalf of the cranium. So you've been on both sides of this marginalization. So I'm wondering if you can speak to the experience of marginalization, marginalization and Myanmar, how it came about your own personal experience and what is what you're trying to build now and a future Myanmar.
Victor 53:00
As you mentioned earlier, Myanmar, is kind of like homophobic society. But thanks to the blooper training of Bill series lately, public acceptance and awareness has improved a lot. And I really appreciate that. But no more people still need to properly educate about LGBT issues. Yeah, we just like before 2015 It's like whenever someone mentioned you as a gay, and whenever you say the words gate, the first thing that comes to their mind is transgender people. And they only know of two genders roles, men and women and they think they are like men to be attracted to the opposite sex. And that's an absolute trick for them. So they think everything except the heterosexual cisgender is against the nature. So the society thinks everyone who wants to go against the nature deserve punishment and discriminations. So it's harsh, because just being yourself, it's like an offense to the whole society. So it's really hard. So that's why I decided to come out only after I become a doctor because I don't have enough power to this is and to fight against all these discriminations, so I have to keep silence and sometimes I even have to act like I'm also homophobic during my university life. It's very painful for me to do so. But sometimes when my friends are like, making signs of other gay people, I have to just ignore it. I cannot step in because I'm afraid I might get I suppose so actually, even after the powerful impact of the PLC reads, Myanmar society, in supporting the LGBT communities is not on the right track, because I will call it like a positive stigmatization. Because before the bill series before the 2015, when we have access to the internet and all these knowledge about the LGBTs, these stigmatized as us. Like, as someone who committed sins in the past, past life, or someone's who was doing someone who's making a scene, or like, when we say we're gay, and the thought that we will be automatically infected with HIV, so And there's even discriminations when it comes to the professions, because the most common profession that they think we should do as like makeup artists, or designers, or maybe comedians, because they think we shouldn't be allowed to be a doctor or a teacher or politicians because these professions are, they think honorable or have a lot of influence on other people. So they think are homosexual, they might be infectious to other people. So you can see a lot of discriminations here, discrimination against LGBTQ people, and discrimination against the profession, and discrimination against the HIV people suffering from HIV. So even right now, most of the some of the population support LGBT, but thanks to the like media, but it only covers those good looking gay people. Everyone else like transgender or bisexual everyone else under the spectrum of our brain boof are still forgotten, and still under discriminations. So we need to implement the right concept at this moment. Because like, like, we have to start from zero, we have to start from absolutely nothing. So we can implement it into the foundation. I think that's why I decided to join the MD code movement. Because that's why I decided to resist resist a military coup. Because it's time to show them it's time to show the people that we are not inferior to anyone else. We can do whatever they can do, and we hate those injustice and discrimination as much as they do. Because right now, they are under oppressions. Their suppression, right? Because right now they are suffering from injustice. So we understand how they feel, because we have been under this for our whole life. So now I think they will learn that what's the human rights are what are our rights, and everyone has to fight for their rights. Now, the under the understanding, I think that's why I joined the revolution. Because I think people start to change their perception on gay people. Because earlier, like I said, Whenever someone mentioned gay, they're like clowns, we should make fun of them because they have committed something bad in the past life, maybe rape or adultery. That's why they are happening like this. They are being gay, and that's why they are gay in this life. So actually, they accused me of this crime is based on I'm sorry to say that based on religions. But they have absolutely no proof or evidence of that we committed such crimes in the past life, because they don't even know if such cases existed or not. Right. So now they are seeing the truth, I think because like they are hesitant, hesitant to use the word gay in front of us in front of the gay activists who are actively involved in the revolution. No, I think it's a good thing for us. But I'm still hearing some some opinions whenever we mentioned about LGBT issues in this revolution, they say, let's find a common enemy first. Just forget anything else, you can do it, you can fight for your right. When we get like our freedom. Back when we get the more present, you can fight for your right again. So why should we do that? Because we are now fighting for our rights, why not fight for our LGBT rights, right? So that's one of the issues that worries me most. Because I'm afraid we might get backstab when we get to democracy. So it's very important to implement the right concept at this moment. And sometimes, it's very important to educate people. Because when I was in Kearney State, I noticed that currently people have very little knowledge on case because they think it doesn't even exist. Because I met a lot of maybe gay or maybe by people in any state. And they don't even know what's happening to them. They were just confused. Because they think like, I'm not interested in women, I'm not interested in men, and I find somehow attached to the same sex. But I don't know what what's happening to me. So they just live their life who lives in confusion. So when I talk about LGBT issues in Kearney State theory said, Something even exists, are we allowed to love it, can we love someone offer our same sex. So sometimes they are not homophobic, they just don't know. They just don't have the right knowledge. So these people are mostly under stress. Because they think this is something that they shouldn't be doing. Because if they show affection to someone of the same sex, the whole society will abandon them, everyone will make love of them. So they have to hide and suppress their emotions. So actually, it's very hard for the people living in a chronic state, especially because they are under in they are in a war under the heavy strikes of the military. And they are also under the pressure and the stress coming from their sexual orientation. So it's not a good sign. And I'm sorry, what's your question?
Insight Myanmar 1:02:50
No, I think I think you answered it. I think the only last part of it was just you, you you reference coming out as gay in Burmese society. But then on the other hand, in our podcast interview, you talked about identifying your privilege as Bomar and cranny society. So on the other side of that marginalization and the remorse you felt that you didn't know the conditions they lived under and you didn't do more. So maybe you can speak to that.
Victor 1:03:18
Yes, I see. We are because when I first went to the trainee State, I was really surprised, because some of the trainee people do not feel like they are in Myanmar. See, because whenever they mentioned about us, they say MRP someone from Myanmar and someone from preemie, because they do not feel like they are from Myanmar. And they have a lot of reasons to do so. Because like we there is a hydro power plant and Colavita and Contini state, and some of the electricity that we're using in the Central Plains of Myanmar come from there. But the chrony people were not allowed to use it. CB because along the way that we carry the electricity from the hydro plant to to Rangoon or Mandalay there's a lot of power line. And the military makes the villagers to guard those towers along the line. Because if something's happened to this power line is their default, they will be fine responsible. But those villages has no electricity. They are not allowed to use it. So and to prevent it to prevent the villagers to prevent the power line from villagers even plant landmines at the base of the towers. Doing so The villages have to guard the tower and they are not allowed to use it and they are not allowed to go near it. So they ask the military to like put a fence around the tower so that everyone can know that there are landmines here. So then nobody can get hurt. And the military doesn't allow it. So some of the villagers suffer from the landmines, the loss in lamps, some lost their lives. And it was happening all the time, even between the 2015 and 2020. And we have no knowledge about it, like we did in that Rohingya crisis. See, because that's why I want to ask the whole world to give us support and, and to fight against terrorist military. Because we committed that mistake in Rohingya crisis. Because after 2021, I talked to the head of NGO here. And when I asked for help, please help because our people are in dangerous, because the terrorists military is like looting and burning villages everyday. So we need help. And he asked me, What were you doing to in the Rohingya crisis? Why is your peoples silent. So, it was such a huge blow to me. So I admit that we, we are really ignorant, and it's our fault. So we should have spoken out and we should have raised awareness, and we should have done something for them. But that's a mistake that we committed. So I don't want to, I don't want the world to follow our steps and do the same mistakes again. Because if you keep silence, and if you keep, if you allow the military to grow and to gain power, you will be doing what we did in the ruin your crisis, right. So the crazy people hate Myanmar so much. Because every most of the Myanmar they see are like military soldiers. So they think Myanmar is someone who comes to colonizer, their land and, like, use violence to rule them. So they say, when I was in the camp, they somehow didn't notice that I'm half Myanmar. So they say, Don't worry, sir. If the new mark comes, I will fight them to death, I will keep you safe. So I told them, I'm also partly Newmar. And my boyfriend who came together into the jungle is like purely Burmese. So I told them that he's also Myanmar. So you have to know that not all Myanmar are bad. See, even Myanmar in a central plane, like in big cities are also under the military rule. And there are villages are now being burned. And they are like they are being killed. And also my friends, who are medical professionals are also in jail and or some are, even shoot a shot to death and during protests. So you have to know that it's not Myanmar, it's the military, you have to address the right enemy. So like, really, so But later, many more people joined the arrows and join the pdf training. So like something like that, and they came to the cranium, state and work together. And that's when they began to realize that not all Myanmar are bad. It's just the military. They know that. And there are also some people say that you can find gay or like LGBT people most in the medical profession, and it's probably true in Myanmar. So a lot of the volunteers coming to work in the jungle are like, gays or lesbian or bisexual or something. So they began to realize that oh, not being gay is not a bad because we think being gay is like it's over. When someone's gay, his life is over. You will never get back into the society or he will never attribute to the contribute to the society and he's totally worthless. It's not right, because a volunteer from my camp. She is also a grainy native. And she said before meeting us or before meeting other people, LGBT people who are involved in the revolution. He used to pray to the God that if I have a child, please make him straight. Because I don't want to be the mother of a day. It's a shame, but she admits it. After staying with us for a few months She realized that being gay is not that bad. It's just a choice. It's just a, just a different.
1:10:07
Thank you so much Pepe. For so eloquently speaking to the challenges of so many different minorities and the complexity of the oppression
1:10:19
in Myanmar, and
1:10:22
I'm curious, my Tierra, I can't see you. But if you're here, I was hoping that you could actually speak to this add to this. I think it's becoming easier for people all over the world, and even here in America to imagine a reality where our government was taken over by a military and to begin, that we're beginning to see so many levels of oppression, even here in our own country. And in so many countries around the world, and so many things you just spoke to Papio Joe resonate, you know, we have indigenous communities here in the US that so much of our energy sources come from them or water comes from them, and they're not even allowed access to it. And so my Tita I'm curious if you can speak to the global connection, from what's happening in Myanmar, and how that relates to although larger movement around the world of people fighting against oppression, how is it all tied together?
Ma Thida 1:11:33
Thank you, I think the for my country, the game changer was the 1960s to printing act after the 1960s to the military took over the power and then invented the one party socialist systems. Before that, you know, the game changer was 1962 printing AG, it's, it's invented the press scrutiny, both the censorship bowl, and then it's invented a very serious propaganda plus very poor education system, which undermined the rule of the literature and arts, and then the linguistic rights, you know, that's the key programs of having all these programs, you know, because of the days, you know, a lot of the non Burma ethnic groups, they lost their chance to wise out and then after, sometimes, for having no future, if they keep using their own ethnic languages, they started having no proper way to voice out through their own languages, I think this is also very true to the indigenous people are in US indigenous people in Australia, you know, that's why I, when we talk about democracy, the basic needs for democracy needs the freedom of expression and the linguistic rights. So that's why I how I became the very active promoter of the linguistic rights, this is very important. And then the, in this case, we also need to be very careful about the role of the literature and arts, you know, for daily struggle, people just prefer to have a better social life, or the economic satisfaction or economic currenty. So the basic knee is not the culture, not the language, you know, in that it's automatically undermined, they are existence, their identity, you know, that's also happened not just in Myanmar, but also in us. You know, that's very, very important. That's why the way the other population, look at the Thanksgiving deeds as a very special day. For the indigenous people. It's very painful for them to assess, you know, this gratitudes never. To them, they feel they lost something like that, you know, so I think the the whole concept of the freedom is directly related to the security, that safety if as long as we cannot guarantee any safety, in terms of physical safety in terms of the psychological safety, in this case of the LGBT, you're not the real challenge with the the psychological security. So if there is no physical, another psychological security, we cannot say, we are safe, we are free. You know, that's the challenge. You know, that's why I think, in my country, the poor education systems, making us very provocative just to add degree, not to the knowledge nor the wisdom, that's also putting us on undermining the role of literature and arts. For that reason, in de, there are several other literature and the visual arts aiming to have understanding each other beyond the boundaries of the ethnicity, but it's never been pretty well, no, no pretty consumed by any parts of the country, you know, for that reason, the people just use their bad memories. And I think this is another very challenging for all of us, not just insight Myanmar, but also in the US and the other countries, you know, the bad memories, bad experience, always make someone's pretty much either under privilege, or the very privileged, something like that. And then it can help us to use our emotion, just simple emotion, to judge everything. You know, that's why I really don't agree to pass the bad memories to the younger generation, you know, it's a very, very the narratives about the bad memories from the elder generation to the younger generation can only build hatred, or the bitterness, no peace, no, the loving kindness, this is very, also very important. In that case, that's why I always say, the rule of literature and art is far more than far more important than the press freedom, you know, press freedom, it's cannot guarantee because we have been very exposed to the information, the whole war is sitting on the part of the information pandemic, but what we have missed is the proper knowledge and the proper wisdom, you have now we have been very easily tackle and handle by the AI, that artificial intelligence, and then we lost our own intelligence, because we need to match with our own experience and information in order to have good knowledge and better wisdom, otherwise, we can easily be paltry either by the politics or the commercial intention, you know, so I think, in that case, we are the not the population who are exposed to this kind of the terrible mechanisms, but also in us and also other parts of the world that what's happened, and the responses towards the Russian Ukraine crisis, you know, so the people just use their own our own memories, or the emotion based judgment, to consider everything you know. So I think the that's why I keep saying that we need to change the game changer. For now. No censorship, no propaganda, proper education, and the right to information is very important. A right to information. I think this is not just from the
1:18:18
States
Ma Thida 1:18:20
as a legislature, but also from our active learning system, you know, what's going on and Bella Roos, in the early days of the 2021? You know, I think the our issue has been pretty much undermined by the news around the Bella ruse, but after sometimes, there is no existing protests in Belarus anymore. But after two years, out nearly almost two years, we still fighting, you know, there is still existing protests in Myanmar. But if we don't pay much attention, we if we don't use our efforts to keep connected with what's going on in the wall, people turn out to be very ignorant or very, pretty much naive. So for that reason, for me, it's two sides of the clients in terms of the right to information, it should be legalized, it should be legitimized, but at the same time, we need to open to the any information. But plus the role of literature and art. It's very important because the information can give us just information and at Moses interpretation, but through literature through arts, we can use our empathy sympathy to understand and to build this wisdom, the empathy based wisdom or knowledge base wisdom, it can only through literature and arts, so I think we truly need to work on the new game changer is to be the arts and literature. He will be the writer information. Thank you.
Insight Myanmar 1:20:02
Thank you for that. And I see Bart's you have your hand up, and the next question was going to us. So that's a perfect segue as our resident artist in the group. That was a perfect transition for checking in with Bart about the role of creativity, the role of art, the role of the artist, the value of freedom of expression, and creativity and the power of it, the mattina spoke so eloquently to, I would like to turn it over to BART, I know you have your own thing to share. And along with what you would like to say, I would also like to check in with you as an artist who has lived under successive military regimes, and has resisted and fought back through your power of creativity through your, your sarcastic wit through your creativity. Tell us a bit about the power and the role of art and artists at this time in Myanmar, in the resistance and the dangers that so many are under now.
Bart Was Not Here 1:21:02
Yeah, that's a good question. I wanted to build more on Matias point about education. I went to public school, it's a pretty well known public school called DICOM debt, where a lot of people went to and very prominent graduates are.
Insight Myanmar 1:21:24
So
Bart Was Not Here 1:21:27
when I went to the school, I think I started around like 2000 2001, I don't really remember, the school was super corrupted at that point. So all the teachers and head teachers, almost like 90% of the staff were either wives of military personnel, wives, daughters, mothers mother's on, like, all the teachers and staff in the school, were somehow tied to the military. So they ran the school like the military, they beat us, they, they just kept using, like, you go to school, like, let's say, seven to 12. And that's five hours of views, then 12. For the evening classes, it's like 12 to four, that's four hours of view. That's every single day. So I wanted to share a personal story. When I was in second grade. The teacher of the class, put three boys on me, like she ordered a hit, like a mafia boss. So these three guys beat me up every school in the playground. And I didn't know why that was. I just I just thought that that was what school was like, you know, it was yours. You're supposed to function on fear, and not the wheelchair learn. I everything I know in life, I didn't learn from school. So I went to school for like, 11 years, and I didn't learn. And that just, they just taught me how to fall in line. You you either fall in line, or you start fighting back. So around, eighth or not, I think ninth grade, I became like 100% rebellious, and I just started fighting back. And I was very unlike me, and I, but I think it was a turning point in life. And that was the same time when I discovered graffiti and art and this spark of creativity that I found in me, and that really helped me actually gain confidence enough to go against the authorities. The authorities at that time were the teachers. So I have friends who are really into astrophysics, but nobody knows about astrophysics and Brahma nobody teaches that. So they are working at an ad agency. Some I have some people who wanted to direct movies, there's a huge censorship law, because do anything that they just end up working other jobs so all my life and my immediate surrounding
Linn Thant 1:24:36
everybody has that.
Bart Was Not Here 1:24:40
That dream that they couldn't pursue because of the circumstances they were in, but they loved it a lot. They had very strong passion for it, but they never got to pursue it because of the country and and the system. And when I arrived in America I have cousins who are still in school, and they have guitar clubs, but they have social clubs. They have book clubs and stuff, we didn't have any of it. All we had was like, you, you study hard, you become a doctor, you become an engineer. If not you go, become a seafarer, go to the sea for eight months out of the year, come back to the country for four months, and then do it all over again. Those were like the career choices if you wanted to make something out of yourself, there was no chance for you to become an artist when I wanted to become an artist. My parents are so far away from art. They thought I was in a faith, like I was an evil kid or something. And they didn't know what to do with me, they have never interacted with an artists before. So my parents didn't know how to treat me either. It was just a gumbo of mishaps and things going wrong in all positions. And that was one of the reasons I participated in the protests as well. I just wanted the education to be better. I had really strong hope. In 2015, when they started changing the curriculum, that school and I remember visiting my school, just to go to the cafeteria, our school cafeteria is good. That's like the only good thing about my high school cafeteria, the food is good. But the rest is shit. So I went back to school to visit. And I met this old teacher who used to be my teacher. And she was saying hi to me, and she was complaining, like we cannot hit these kids anymore. Back in your days, we could hit everyone and nobody complained. Now we cannot even touch these kids and they start crying and they start complaining. I was like, serve you right bit. But you know that that's how it is and people hurt people hurt people. So it's, it's a cycle of people hurting people and in turn these kids hurting other people as well. And I was very fortunate to discover graffiti, and pop culture, and watch movies and read books and just be surrounded by culture at a very young age. because not a lot of people can even speak English. And that's pretty much a key to the world if you want to use it correctly. And they didn't get a chance because we don't teach good English. We don't eat any other language properly. Don't even teach history, right? So if you go to school, the only thing you learn is how to fear your higher up. And that's that's the story of Burmese education. They were conditioning you to fear so that you become a scared little rabbit when you grow up and go serve your military overlord. That's that's the, the gist of the education system in Burma. And about art, I think art in Burma is very special because most of the artists find loopholes, and we're very good at it. I think Burmese people in general are very good at finding loopholes. So it shows up a lot in Burmese artists. And the Burmese artists have this like very good resilience. And they this light, I think, even if their work are dark or you know desolate or something like that, they still have this. Take that pretty much unique from most of the things that you will come across. And that's what that's what makes permies are very unique. I know my description is very broad, but I think you have to see it and experience it yourself to understand it. But one really good thing in the culture that Burmese people, or the Burmese citizens in general that have inherited is a sense of humor, and it shows up in literature, it shows up in music, in lyricism. It shows up in poems at times. I certainly work with humor in my art as well, because it's so much messed up things around us. And it's so much dark darkness and disparity around us, we just can't help but make fun of it and laugh at it in its face. So that it it brightens things up a little bit and makes the, the weight a little bit lighter. And, you know, some of the disparities are so ridiculous that you can just help but laugh at it.
1:30:29
Yeah. Thank you, I think we'd love to see some of your art, if you have a link or link to other Burmese art that you would be able to share. That would really mean and
Bart Was Not Here 1:30:45
you can just find me anywhere if I was not here also shows on Google,
1:30:49
Belize and post some of that in the chat. Sure. And in addition to art, we're moving along because we're running out of time, but um, a lot of our listeners are meditators. And that's why I originally came to Myanmar was to meditate. Even though of course, as we were talking about today, a lot of the country is not well, isn't 80% or 90% of the country
Linn Thant 1:31:16
is Buddhist. And then
1:31:20
there are other religious minorities that aren't treated very well, but for the meditators. I know, several people here, Linton, in theory, have used meditation while you were political prisoners, and there are so many 1000s of political prisoners around the world today. And we just love to hear how meditation has served you and enables you to continue fighting and to have an inner balance and maintain your heart of compassion, rather than just falling into absolute hatred and despair while spending so many years under, in prison and under oppression and seeing all the terrible things that you've seen. So theory or Linton, if you would speak to how meditation helped you through this process. And through this crisis and through the things that you've been to that would be so meaningful for us
1:32:23
it's not Dida the I am not a I've never been a political prisoner myself, though. It's actually Makita
Ma Thida 1:32:32
Thank you Okay, I think I will Yeah, I did meditation up to 20 hours a day, when I was in prison. And that helped me a lot. That's really make be safe my life and change my personality. Before I was in prison, I was pretty aggressive person. And very, as I was pretty young, you know, but spending so much time doing the meditation and I such as it was because in the past, I was like a tomboy and and I was almost like, you know, pretty much rebellious. But I after that, I try to assess whatever it's happened to me, but not in the way and kind of the, be forced to accept it, you know, because I try to understand and the after the meditation, both bad and good things, making me pretty much indifference because it's what permanent, you know, that basic concept of after doing so many hours of meditation, the basic concept of the impermanence, sufferings, and the nosal ordinances is very much helpful me to keep going on. You know, I spent five years six months in prison and I have been so much through since the 1988. But without the meditation without the Vipassana meditation, I don't think I can survive, you know, until now, I tried to keep meditate at least some period of the daytime or the nighttime. So this is my daily practice and this is my daily survival secrets, you know, without that I cannot easily be positive and be present. Thank you.
1:34:43
Thank you, and then Tom, we'd love to hear from you as well.
Linn Thant 1:34:47
So, Mattila has already mentioned about the benefits from the meditations that that is the same, you know, the experience like my theta For me that you know that before I was, you know, the political prisoner in prison, I did our meditations at the MaHA Civic Center, and the Tombow loop and other you know, meditation centers. I was in the man hoods for several months. And I did the meditations before I was arrested. After I was arrested in the, you know, I did meditation still, now, I'm doing the meditation, because the meditation makes me you know, healthy and happy. And it is likely, you know, to pass all of the my activities, thinkings, and that pass, make me you know, relax. Meditation is the best wellness, the best medicines for me to have stable tea to have the peace of mind. And because right now, I'm working as the representative of the national unity government, I have a lot of the difficulties, a lot of the challenges, so very stressful. And but you know, the meditation, make the fresh grind on, you know, you know, the meeting is, you know, the, it's 2am here in my prayers, it's really early. But for me that, you know, this is, this is, you know, I'm used to be, you know, get up early morning, every day, and the after party and I will do the meditations and this is really great. So, because the many of the people say thing instead, you know, and saying that the we love the justice, we love, we hate the injustice. But we are set to forget the brightest injustice. The people saying that, you know, the, we don't like the bias, but we are very biased, for example. So I believe that you know, the IMD devoted bodies, we are combining of the mind and meta bodies. Everyday we are feeding to our physical bodies, foods and listening the music and something like that, but we forget to feed to our mental bodies. Meditation is the best foods for the mental bodies. The more we have the fluids for our bodies, the physical bodies, we are stronger and stronger. But we forget to feed our mental bodies. That's why we we felt that sometimes you know, stress and sometimes exhausted. And the a lot of you know, mental problems. If we feed that was, you know, mental bodies, our mental body will be strong, and stronger and stronger. That is my experience. I want to share my experience two years. That's fine. If you love the justice, Friday suggested in your bodies. If you love you know, freedom, you have to make your bodies to be freedom. Meditation makes you feel free in mentally and bodily. When you meditate, you will get the the freedom because you don't think of the past, you don't think of the future while you meditate, you are at the present that makes you feel peace, that it makes you feel fresh and that makes you feel stronger and stronger and healthy. That's all what I want to share about the know meditations very briefly. And the but on the other hand is the so many of the panels analyst you know we're talking about the rights and the experience right now I want to read signals the you know the our concerning about the how to end the military rule because the military itself the the source of the problems, all of the problems so we have to edit out the problems because right now the people in Burma they don't have the any chance to have the meditate meditations. The peoples are running away. The peoples are hiding that people are fighting. Right now we have a chance to do the meditation but in second division McQuaid divisions, the villages A day by the terrorist military they don't have the chance to meditate we call in Bali, this is the color we party. So, we cannot do meditations Imbaba the people on Myanmar Hi meter if he wants to get a chance to to to end such kind of the you know, bad experience that's you know the actions against the acting you know by the military tourists to have the meditation style and to have the peace of mind you need to edit out the military rule and then we will be out of the gala we party. Thank you very much.
Insight Myanmar 1:40:55
Thank you for that. We have one final question and then we will be opening it up to the floor just what a wonderful panel of combining art and literature and meditation and and democracy and all these these marginalized people so much just come up through here. I would like to ask a question to theory. It's a two part question. The first part is with how the how the Myanmar conflict has been covered in the outside world and media what people have understood if you can address what about the experience of being in Myanmar has not really been properly understood we have a wide berth of listeners that are that are still on that have that have stayed with us and we're so appreciative and if you could address what what would you like to share about the lived experience of this conflict and the aspirations that that people are perhaps not understanding? And then the follow up question with that of the two part question what of the people that are listening now and maybe being inspired and moved and wanting to help wanting to support not necessarily knowing how can you speak to what kind of support would be appreciated? How will the international community and those on this call what they can do after this session? That can be of help to this movement?
1:42:31
Yeah, sure. So the first part of the questions it's um so in the media portray usually you know, like, when would you portray in the media whatever is a conflict like they think we are always like crying or like suffering but that's not what it looks like in a daily life you know, we Yeah situation is really bad but also like we have like we are just like you guys we in even in the middle of all the hemorrhage situation we cry me left and everything but so that's like live in my I'm bringing my town has become become the city has become an anchor city. Now the soldier are in there do we have bankers in every other corners of the of the means of the streets in Yangon, and they are the guns are pointing towards us. Because getting ready. I don't know, even though we have no weapons or anything, but the soldier will be pointing guns to us. The inaudible the soldier track will be the green track, we'll be passing around town holding there will be like two people standing up friends and two people standing towards the back. And then they will be pointing guns towards you. And then they will drive the other ways and so like daily life, and they will check your phones and something so having a mobile phones in your mind is a crime. Having wearing all black or awareness, it is a crime or just being simply just being young, you know, just because you're young people you're not saved because they think that when you're young, you're against the military. So So the problem with the military is that they see everyone as the enemy they they see every young people as the enemy so so that that that's You don't need to involve in politics to be targeted by the military in your mind. It's just you don't do anything you just pass by and then it was complete lawlessness, they will just stalk you and or maybe they don't like how you dress or maybe they don't they they want to rub money for new and they will stop and they will just ask question or they will check your phone. So we have to use different phone my every every four people who can afford phones. We use different like different Mobifone because we don't want our phone to be checked and then if they see anything we post it on Social media even a common in something they can arrest you they can arrest us they can arrest they can torture us and to death even though you may post something or it's not political or anything, just something whatever daily life what you are doing it's it is considered as crime under the Military Region. And also like for people who don't have phone module perform, we will have to clear out the everything just before we go is that extra extra work and we cannot really sleep the whole years I was in the country I couldn't really I didn't fall asleep until 5am in the morning because there's the nighttime knocking the door and the guest registration they will come to the door and they will knock and then we never know what will happen when we got arrested young people jump off off the route because we were afraid they were afraid of like being tortured and being killed in any in prison because though we were there a lot of I don't even remember a lot of the daily life anymore because every day is living with fears and i It seems like forever even though it was two years ago a lot of memories I don't remember a lot of the things I only remember a lot you know all the feelings and stuff so so that's like for the media what they will we have a lot of media we will on the on the international news for two weeks or two months straight in the international media and something but then the problem with not only in your mind the problem with the media reporting as well as that one only one is a peak conflict or peak issue we will get a highlight and once it is gone it is shifted the attention is shifted to another day but our life continue just because we don't appear in the media doesn't mean that our suffering ends is happening. And also you may see some time you know Burmese people were either in exile who were abroad or who were in anywhere in their mouths and then we will be singing or we will be like going and happy phases or something and then people may not understand oh maybe the conflict is over they looked happy but just because we're happy just because we're celebrating striking or living our life doesn't really discount our suffering all of us are away from home so we talk about home it's very homeless very important for us like home is not the this lane you know lane is our identity we are forced out of our home all of us here in a lot of my friends have to have to you know coach you the jungle and to say it you know growing up enter the military dictatorship it's it's kind of like normal for us if they also come in from the you know friend a lot of friends or my a lot of my friends are activists like whenever I heard like oh they got arrested it's not even new thing it just okay yeah, they've already said they're going to be released that's how our life is. But our to get killed. It's normal for us. But what is normal in this country in this country is that it's really heartbreaking to see our parents have to pull pull up cannons and and fight in the jungle they shouldn't they should be partying they should be reading they should be writing porn and they should be doing art so instead they have to call cancer in the jungle. Because we all want to call home people in exile. We with painting it's we're leaving now because we don't know that I'm at home you still hold those he doesn't ship because
1:48:45
we I personally I to go home you know I want to go back to my home I want to go back to sleep in my in my bed and you can say oh you can go but it does not save nobody it is no ensuring no and no certainty like because the military arrests and torture and killing it's not consistent they just very random pick and people in anxiety wanted to go home and people in the jungle wanted to go home even even within the country we cannot stay at home we have to relocate living in different safe houses and all the kinds of things so help us to go home and just because we don't appear in the media doesn't mean our suffering and and also just because when you see happy face or good face or bath doesn't mean we are sufferings and is saying the pain may be different for different people but we are all in pain and we but we still continue even though horrible things happen. We I want you to remember that at the news how we want to be seen by the world is to celebrate our living Yeah, we are still living with still surviving so so that's why we are asking that you check the support because not because we are pathetic, human it's because we deserve to live. We are human just like at us, we deserve to live, we deserve to be happy, we deserve to love and all the kinds of things. That's why and we deserve to go home. So that's why we are asking for the help. And that's the method. That's how I want people to see us as Myanmar people, not like poor people from conflict, like look at how, look at how we live, even in the middle of the, of the crisis. So the world is already suffering a lot in all the negativity, we just like to bring hope and resilience, look at our resilience, and we are calling for solidarity for from the word like, work with us, like fight with us. Because ingested, ingested in your mind, it's also it can be in your country as well in your society as well. So that's what we are calling for. And related to that. The your next question, what can you do individual of us, you can do it like starving you like you can talk to you do not think about bigger things, maybe like start talking to your family member, talking to your friends, talking to your neighbors about what's going on in your mind. Or if you have any Burmese friends around you, either you support them financially, or at least call them check in with them, like, see if they are okay. That that is important, because we don't want to be forgetting, check in with dental that's the individual level that you can talk you can do. And also like other thing is the you can push for your government to have laws and you have accountability mechanisms from the AMA, like, at the moment, if you are in the US, pushed for the Obama edge in the in the Senate a lot there's the bill is stuck. Because I want the to Senator Mitch McConnell and also taught Senator Todd Young, they will they did that it was really blocking. So like push for it. And because accountability at that's something that you can do if you're in the US and talk to your representative and talk to your government push for it. Just talk about Myanmar, so that they can pay attention to it. The problem now is the political will, they don't have it, and also engage in our campaign, when we do the campaign, please engage with us and any way you can. And also, if you have, you have internet, a lot of us don't have internet. So you can click there, well, some kind of application, you can click, and then your click for the YouTube application, we can share more information later through this channel. And if you click them, that can automatically generate the many for the fundraising for the revolution, not something that they that you can do. And also like the for the immediate attention, there's a death penalty to the seven young students. Many of them are injured age and 18 years old, and they may be killed because military is killing them. We they will not stop. So flies out for that. That kind of thing. For the last but not the least is like, you know, stand up for any industry around you and love. And just take care of yourself and love and take care of the people around you. Be with us and just checking in with your friends around you any family friends. So that's all I want to say. Thank you.
1:53:17
Wow, theory, thank you so much for sharing that it's incredibly moving. I listened to the podcast for all of the panelists and anyone who would like to hear more from any of these panelists, there are podcasts with each of them on the insight myanmar.org page there. Insight Myanmar has done interviews and
Linn Thant 1:53:40
was just so moved
1:53:44
by your heart theory and by all that you have seen this last question you sort of just answered, but let's start with you. And then I'd like each panelist to spend a couple minutes answering this part, I see your hand up. So we'll get to you as well. I'm really wanting to hear what is the outcome that you dream of? What is the vision that you dream of for Myanmar in 10 years? And so that's part one, you know, what are you fighting for? What is that vision that you're fighting for? And to what would you like the world to know if you had two minutes and a microphone that would go to every street in the world? What would you say? So theory, let's start with you. And then we'll go to each person
1:54:37
so in terms of the future, there are three things the Big Three umbrella that I want to see for NUMA. What definitely we're not going back to the past because some a lot of marginalized people were left out in the past. So three things one is AI safety and security in daily life. We don't want to live with fear. That's one thing and the other one is rights and freedom. Everyone's has rights and freedom to, to have to and to have the opportunities. And also third thing is I have any opportunities for, you know, for for every each and every one like doesn't matter based on what their identity or where they are and who they are just so that that's kind of future that I envision in 10 years. So I don't catch up the second question, but I will just leave it to the other panelists.
1:55:32
I think you answered the second question first before so thank you. Bart, would you like to speak next I saw your hand was up.
Bart Was Not Here 1:55:43
My theory that was really profound thank you for that. I just wanted to add upon what muddy reset how you can support Burma in another way is that there's an ongoing armed struggle, both in the cities and in the jungle. In the cities, there's urban guerrilla. And in the jungle, there's people's Defence Force PDF. And they need, they don't just need guns and bombs and all the hardware stuff, but they they can get, they can receive help in the way of techniques and software and tactics and training as well. And what what the UG has done is they they have made their their own guns with 3d printers, their FC at Tec nine. And they're really good, and it's efficient. And the guys who are doing it used to be engineers who got involved in protest. And they are, you know, they are supporting the revolution in their own way. And then they just turn out to be these technicians. And they are just learning as they go. So if you know anything about guns, and if you are a gun enthusiast, by any chance, or you know anything about explosives and things like that, reach out to these power people through different channels available, and just educate them, coach them how to use these materials safely, and how to really carry out these missions. thoroughly. That's what I wanted to mention, because that's, that's the only way we can win the war. Because nobody's coming to fight for us, we have to fight for ourselves. And we need all the help we can get. And that's like, to me, that's the best help next do funding, you know, so that that's what I wanted to mention. And in terms of how I see Burma in the future, I've said it before, and Matthew was in the room, how I see Burma, Burma is future is a blank canvas, and you can anyone can be anything and anyone can do anything they want want to do. And they can contribute to the country. And it's going to they're going to see the outcome of it. And we're just going to start over we're going to clean the state slate and start over. And I want it to be a blank canvas where everybody can bring something to the table. And we'll all figure out how to fit all of that into the canvas. Yeah, thank you.
1:58:33
Thank you so much. I didn't realize I was muted. PPO. Joe, would you like to go next? So
Victor 1:58:41
what's my vision on a futures like St. Barts is not here mentioned. We're, we're like reconstructing our home. See, so I believe in our people don't will not be stayed in this pile of debris forever. So I, I believe in the next 10 years or in some time period, we'll be able to build a safe place for everyone. That means for us or for any ethnic minority groups, because now we have learned our lessons of letting the evil grow. So I believe that we'll fight to the end. And yeah, somehow will win. And to the message to all the people around the world is like when it's come to supporting us or donations. People usually hesitate when they hear though the word revolution because they might they don't want to get involved in conflicts or like they're afraid that they might be get associated with terrorism, something like that. But you have to know that the PDF owes us were born to protect their home. Because when someone knocks your door and rob your things and kill your family member If you have a chance to fight back, you pull out a gun and fight back. That's how the PDF is born. So that's how the military is trying to, like, Chuck put charges on us, because we have connections with a PDF, because they are our family member. And most of the refugees living in the jungle are like relatives of the PDF sources. Because the PDF was so poor were born to protect them. And like a few months ago, I have a friend who just turned 18 This year, and he lost his middle finger in a car accident. And now he's not even alive, because he passed away in a battle protecting his village. So don't see us as a conflict between two armed forces. Because one group is like a terrorist trying to please everyone else. And the other group is trying to just try to defend their lives and their families. So do not hesitate. And please learn the truth. And please continue supporting us. That's my message.
2:01:07
Thank you. Thank you so much.
2:01:14
More from my theta next. But also, I wanted to mention to those of you in the audience, that we will be opening up the floor for questions. So if you have questions, feel free to type those into the chat box. Or if you're watching live, you can type them underneath the video on your Facebook page.
Ma Thida 2:01:33
Thank you. For the future Myanmar, I really want my country to have full of mutual respect, that is a basic needs. And I want every single person of my country to practice the answer of appreciation to the others, and also having a collective dreams. This is what we truly miss. It's big collective dreams can change our society for better peaceful and promising future. And I think all other panelists has been mentioned about the safety security issue or the or the potentials and the opening up. That's all I agree. And I just want more on the collective dream and the mutual respects for the everyone's it's for the future.
2:02:33
Thank you. Thank you so much.
2:02:39
And when time, I would love to hear from you what your vision is for the country, what you'd love people to know. And I know you also wanted to share about the energy, the national unity government, what some of their principles are on sanctions and some other things. So please add that in
Linn Thant 2:03:02
as well. Thank you very much. So right on the first of all, you know, I would like to say that, you know, the we are building the new states. We don't want to get back to the old one. This will be the new states. It will be the new democratic federal states. So we have right now the 12 step, you know, roadmaps to build the you know, the Federal democracy state, our country. So we have the chance. We have the right now the, you know, the entry in the Constitution Staff Committee, we are throwing the, you know, interim constitution. And then, you know, we will have the federal democratic country and we will stay together very peacefully and very securely in the future. To have the brighter future secure future for our country. Right now. We have a cabinet minister very committed to end the military rule. Our government is just only entering governments to lead the revolution. First we have the you know, the RS six France political France, international France, financial and economic France, some of those to add up the you know, the immunities and the military who will obey me, we need to have very strong support from the international communities, especially sanctions. We have to get it off the military incomes, our energy goals and the international community's implements the stronger tougher Enough coordinated measures targeting the military economic interests. We are much encouraged by the sanctions sulfur imposed on the military owned companies, individuals and other military interest by some states. But these measures needs to be adopted by a large number of nations and strengthened to maximize the impacts beyond the ministry own conglomerates, for example, the Myanmar economic Holdings Limited. Very recently, we our government has announced that the amount by this is you know, the one of the terrorists company which has been sanctioned spent some members of the International committees already there. There is a need to broaden sanctions to wide wide analysis of enterprises. That is the falling under the control of the military gentle since they attempt to can only broadening sanctions in this way will have a real impact on the military income streams. sanctions should be imposed on a state owned enterprises that allowed under the military control, Myanmar oil and gas enterprise mot is the military's most important financial lifeline. One of the handful of the stable, predictable sources of finance used to prosecute weapons surveillance technologies and jet fuels, energy goals for agents actions to sanction the following You know, businesses all state owned enterprises now under the control of the agenda, including emoji all business own are consumed by the associated with the channel especially Myanmar Obi and EHL and the MSC all private you know the business owned by the individual members of the gentle or the FBI, the senior military officers all the military business partners and associates Yeah, assisting the channel including private sector is firms owned by the individual that are known cronies of the militaries. And all payments including toxic Siena dividends, profits and rents that provide income to the gentle should be stopped. Internal targeting the military economic interest the sector is on the yellow we Energy wants the international community to impose sanctions, especially the first priority while in case because oil and gas companies provide a large and steady stream city revenue to determine its again priority mining because the military has a large share of the mining sectors and profit directly through to the military and they have corrupts soft source associates. That pride is banking, because the sanctions international banks to prevent transactions involving the Myanmar military will have hearts the military stability to buy the weapons and the you know, to misappropriate you know the country's revenue for their personal gain. We want investor we have the sent the message to the investors the evidence they should suspend all the business better the contributing to the military tend to catch up to you know crimes against humanity can corrupt all the finest in any forms, which is helping the military activity terrorism. All investors should suspend our business dealing with the old state owned enterprises including joint ventures with the state owned enterprises and also suspend all business ventures with the military own or the control holding companies including me HL and MEC from suspend all the payments that have provided income to the janitor or to the military and instead place on funds into a third party account that cannot be assessed by the janitor and suspend all the outstanding loans do business holding limited and do not go operate with the business owned by the demands of the janitor or the senior military leadership or their families members. And the canceled the partnership if they're currently in the business with them. That is you know the very We effective way to cut off the tourists Haunter their incomes, their money flows. If we cannot, if you cannot sanctions against this such kind of these the military terrorist, they can commit the next genocides the next crime against humanity, war crimes according to the you know the our research during the two years, the military committed over 25,000 that over 2500 cases of the human rights abuses and the crime against humanity and war crimes. That is, you know, you can help to the people of Myanmar in need and the very important message to the international communities. That is towards accountability. When it comes to the accountability, we need to go back to the to the first time of the military coup that took place on second March 1962. Since then the military enjoyed the immunity community and the leaders of the military who have committed different kinds of crimes on the different people and the ethnic groups have ever been held accountable. Not only the religious, but of the kitchens. Shands reclined terenie mourn the killed of many of the people that killed many of the our ethnic people, our brothers and sisters. But I was freeing revelation gave us a very good opportunity to cut the impunity of and hold the military leaders accountable in the bring the bolts to justice for the Victorians. We have approved a Federal Democratic Charter. If I mentioned about the very beginning of this part of talking and the people Assembly held in January 2022. To bring an end to the military conflicts across the our union and to ensure all the nationalities and populations can participate and collaborate fully in the union. The NUJ is proposing a new Federal Democratic Union where all citizen can live in peace. But energy has made clear that all the ethnic nationalities born in the Union shall have full rights and that we shall ensure the fundamental rights, gender equality and the rights of the ethnic minorities. The NUJ has issued a policy statements on Rohingya that emphasize their belongings and inclusions. It's also recognize the rights of the victims to seek justice against those with debt and kill them. Our new Federal Democratic Union will include a special place or Rohingya communities as well. The N ug is committed to bringing the perpetrator to justice not only for the realization of justice, but also for the to deterrence against you know, the future atrocities. Therefore, we record this has separated us this is our enmity. May Britishness as you all know that in 19 to 2019, a case was opened at the International Court of Justice by the Gambia against Myanmar, the case refers to the violence perpetrated by the military against our religious communities in 2017. It is the interest of the justice for the sake of the our orange brothers and sisters that we have engaged with the International Code of these last months. We have submitted to pediatric dental records as required by the code in its provisional measures of the 23rd January 2020. We have named the our ambassador to the United Nations, His Excellency, which are more term as agent for the coach in place after all, Sensoji who shall remain remains unjustly detained by the military. We have withdrawn the preliminary objections that were submitted before the cook They are no longer relevant. The need for justice requires that we proceed to the merit of the case. We have sought to work with this code. And with the Gambia to secure justice in the military regions, rules by the gun, even that is failing them. They do not have the effective control over country. They have no popular consents for the violence. They have consistently betrayal the Myanmar's international obligations. They stand condemned by what they do each day in our country, and by the prices of their ratings, livings and debt. However, the same military has engaged with the international courts of the justice, although they have not received the credit so for the United Nations, and they have been birthed from ASEAN and the from many other international fora as the only legitimate government of the Myanmar and the two voice of the people, and UT propose that it's most represents Myanmar before iCj. Unfortunately, we didn't have a chance to represent the Myanmar in the previous sections of the ICJ. The previous National League for Democracy government emphasized the importance of the domestic accountability for any crimes committed by the military, and by others, or others. Now, since the unlawful thing good on the you know, favorite one, we've seen these being used by the military to to perpetrate their goals, irrespective of justice. Therefore, anybody recognize the archer needs for international accountability for crimes, those against the Rohingya and those against so many of the operators and sisters since the onoff, victims cute
2:17:15
went on, this is all such important information. And we've had a lot of requests for a list of the businesses and other ways that people can support. We are pretty far over time. So if we could wrap this up in perhaps a minute, or I can say some things, and then we can come back to this after.
Linn Thant 2:17:38
Yeah, thank you very much. Okay. Thank you.
2:17:41
So thank you to everyone, panelists, and participants, and listeners that have been with us today, it's been so powerful to hear from each of you. So moving and educational. I'd like to remind you that if you would like to help if this touched you today, if you've learned something, please spread the word to your community, you can share this recording. And you can also if you'd like to help donate to our fundraiser for nine refugee schools and myths around refugee camp that will support 937 Burmese children, students, and 70 teachers, it funds the schools for supplies, and also 2000 villagers and two villages whose villages 10 homes have been continually burned and destroyed by the military forces. So if you would like to contribute, you can do that at WWW dot one light global.org forward slash Myanmar and that link is in the chat now. That's one light global.org forward slash Myanmar. And 100% of donations go directly to the causes. And they are tax deductible in the US. So thank you so much for your contribution. And please share this absolutely powerful conversation with your community. It's so important that we raise awareness, contact your politicians, and we will send all of these links in a follow up email. So for everyone who wants to go we wish you a good night. And for those who'd like to stay we will be answering some of the questions that were in the chat. Thank you. Yeah,
Insight Myanmar 2:19:34
excuse me. Yeah, so I just appreciate so much our panelists and our listeners for staying on this. The archive of this will live will be published on our podcast stream and other places. So even though we may be overtime now and and there are still some questions and some things that panelists would like to discuss as well as the as well as the listeners would like to ask and so we We can we can keep going, as long as there's an intent for that. And this, this, this content will live on for those that are still listening to now. And for those that will access it later. We can we can keep going with it. For those that have to leave, as I see in the chat, that's, that's perfectly fine. This has gone longer than expected. And we just appreciate how much everyone has given. I there was a question in the chat and from Elliott's and he will ask it in voice just so we have a voice record of that question. And then it's a question about urbanization, and then anyone who would like to answer it from the panelists may do so. So Elena, go ahead.
2:20:40
Hi, everyone. Um, yeah, so I'll just read the question, and I had a little bit at the end. So one of the key calls on Burmese social media. During this Aida bone kit has been to uproot feminization. You guys have already talked about this a little bit. But I was wondering if you could talk about the backlash to the mob privilege discourse. So from an app that, for instance, who insists that they don't really benefit from this? How do you understand feminization? Is is that? Is it as a mu chin? Or ba ma Loomio G WADA or just by monetization as something totally different? And how should it be addressed? And I, I wouldn't ask if you could maybe go beyond rights discourse, because as we know a quite yet in Myanmar sometimes doesn't really mean very much. You know, Uber and Airbnb saw you at home all day, literally to be all right. So rights can be written on paper, but on in reality, reality is another way most daily life and Myanmar was daily people will probably tell you that. And so trying to solve things, but given everyone rights, what really addressed these deeper structural issues like feminization,
2:21:50
so I'll leave it at that so if nobody is telling me, I'm going to jump me, so my understanding, I don't represent any tomato, even though I regard myself as Burma and I grew up as Burma so so you're you're saying like and yeah that say in the discourse that any other saying like, Oh, we're not benefiting from the urbanisations and this is military realization. That's usually what but I don't think it was actually in yada we're sharing this kind of Discord is more like Burma like us like privilege from our who are maybe we may not be ethnically pure Burmese. I am not ethnically pure Burmese. But I regarded I grew up as from Abu Dhabi in the in the hub of the national ID card. So so for me like feminization, my understanding is more about the structural privilege that is granted upon us just because we claim ourselves to be Burma. And and it doesn't necessarily means our bloodline, you know, maybe we may not even be pure Burmese, because you know, Myanmar is not a race as it is very difficult to differentiate with the race and everything. So like, so I did. A minus any of feminization is more about the structural privilege granted upon us just because we claim ourselves to be to be Burma. So in terms of the feminization i It's a lot of it's not like right or wrong or anything that you're one is the state impose what stage means a military like impose this kind of only Mr. Buddha, I have more privilege thus the state level military Lightstation that's one thing and that resulted with the system and the things that you know, people in the different layer of the society we whether knowingly or unknowingly impulsing like, you know, we make jokes about ethnic people name or like, you know, Muslims or Chinese like we we exclude people and we may not even know because there was nobody, nobody told us to discriminate or like feminized other people, but in a way our system the way it is set up is like nobody really intervene as when we are doing the act of feminization. So my understanding of criminalization is more about the structural rather than the, the, the actual being perma. But in terms of the discourse, yes, we have a lot of backlash, but I will say there are a lot of openness and people started talking about this. And as a because it's more like live experience. Sometimes people may not use the academy key words like feminization or something, but in their daily life, they may be practicing their behavior may be changing, but they may not necessarily know what it is called in technical terms. So that's how I would describe it briefly because this is not we can talk more freely. You can reach out to me and we can talk more but this is briefly explaining about what my understanding of departmentalization and the backlash but things are getting better now.
Victor 2:25:06
I think I'm gonna jump in and share my experience a little bit. I myself is not a pure Burmese because my mom is 100%. Korean. So I'm half Korean. But I've lost my identity as a career because I cannot speak Korean language at all. And I don't know any custom of Korean people. Because it's pointless for me to learn about it because I can't use it in my daily life. And I, I don't have any opportunity so I can work, I can find any job with it. So my mom chose not to teach me the Korean language. And when I went to the Granite State, I learned that most of the cranium, kids are forced to choose, choose a premise name when they come to when we go to school, because it's hard for the teachers to pronounce a name. And one, one of the most words that our patients say to us is like, I'm sorry that I cannot speak Burmese, I feel really ashamed. So I was like, No, it's totally okay. Because I'm an outsider, this is your land, this is your place, and you can speak your language very well. And it's fine. So it's not a shame that you cannot speak Burmese, but somehow they feel suppress or, like kind of does have some discrimination when it goes to the office or when it goes to the school, or when it comes to finding jobs. Being able to speak Burmese is like a big privilege. And so they have to like let go of some of their identities or their customs or their traditions, they have to follow these rules because when they are going to the go to go to the school, they are forced to wear like long Jewish See, they cannot wear their traditional costumes or like that. So this is what I experience from going to the Queenie state
Bart Was Not Here 2:27:12
big I don't know anything about Burmese privilege because I grew up Gala. And everybody made sure that they were reminded me that a gala, which is a racial slur for you know, Indian and Muslim descent. And so the majority of my life, I grew up with a color in their eyes. Even though I don't really practice I don't practice Islam, but you know, still color. I think what I see is a Buddhist Buddhist privilege, which no a Buddhist country, and there's a twisted Tera Vaada, which is not pure, it's been touted and made impure by the military through religious propaganda. And this very toxic Buddha's extreme is sometimes extremism, sometimes privilege gets into the system and somehow rigged the system. And it makes other people very hard to even, you know, acquire a passport if you are, you know, an ethnic minority or a Muslim in your ID card to get your passport slower, slower than a Burmese Buddhist things like that. So that I've experienced, and then there's also jangling privilege, which is if you grew up in Yangon, you are so privileged you at least you got to use that slow internet before the other people who didn't even have electricity in the in the countryside. So there's genuine privilege and Buddhist privilege and I'm a part I benefited from Yemen privilege because I was born in Yangon, the commercial capital of the country. So I think I can speak to those two Yeah.
Linn Thant 2:29:26
And share about my experience. So I'm not the BBS viewer and ingredient Burmese on my ID cards. It shows that you know the thing low Indian Burmese because my grandparents the British and my grandma is the Indian and the that's why I'm very mixed. So when I was here and you know I was called the some of the my friends in the some of their parents call me they call up you because my grandpa is the British. So they just made it me A lot, sometimes they call me the RET. It's mouse. And but it it is really, you know, said to me, sometimes I'm sharing but my young you know, experience as even the some of my teachers they call me to collapse you but I have the brown skin because this is very Burmese in my my features are very famous. My grandpa's Okay, right, he is his, you know, he died at the age of the hundreds. In Burma, he became the unit where the citizens of the, you know, the thermic, oxy independence, he was, you know, the economics and opposite of the British oil corporations. But, you know, when I was hearing, you know, the all the time the various people saying that's to me, how the collapse you because, you know, the British, you know, ruling the Burma over the 124 years, they hate to collapse you, and they call it stakeholder analysis. colonizations. But, you know, harmonizations, the, you know, but this is not about harmonization practice. And I believe that, you know, this is just only misused by the military, in the military, it serves, you know, they are using such kind of rewards, and some ethnic leaders in the, you know, our history, you know, some leaders and community leaders, the thing is, you know, just explaining about the harmonization, but it is not normalization, this is the military applications, this is simple. So, since they do the US, you know, 1962, the, you know, military make it itself, you know, the, the making, you know, the How can I say that in new class. So, always they have to save the country, they always they have the, they have the responsible, you know, to save the country to save the religions, the even the misuse that religions, Buddhists, Buddhists in the Buddha taught us the very simple daughters, they're very clear, we don't have even, you know, men and women, you know, even the animal only beings, we all beings, it is the process of the environmental process that is in the boat at all, you know, us hurricanes, you know, distribution that have, but the Buddhism was misused, and what is the Buddhism misused by the military right now, especially, you know, some prominent, you know, Buddhist monk, they misused the Buddhism, they are destroying the Buddhism, so called the Tera Vaada. But this is a very set to say about this on Sunday, you know, very famous Buddhist monks, they always use using something, you know, Miss you was, that is why, you know, you're asking such kind of declarations. So what I want to say, thank you
2:32:54
APR, Joe, we see your hand is raised. And I think this will have to be the last question just because of timing. But we can always, other panel.
Victor 2:33:05
Yeah, I have one more thing to say about the parameterization that I experienced in the community. Because I heard that I met a person from chrony ethnic group, and he's a kind of a leader in his community. And he's now like fighting an armed force. And he's quite a leader. And he was got arrested during the end of the time of power, because he protests against the general answer. Instead, you put in the non US Institute in Lyco. So some chrony ethnic groups did not agree on that, because instead, they think this is their land. So instead of the general Olson statute, they want to put their own leader statue, but because General Olson is our hero, but not theirs. So he protested against this, and he was put into jail for six months. And after that, he got released, but now he's letting go all the past harass and, like, he's working together with energy government, to fight against the military, but we have to learn from our mistakes. So that's another thing. I think it's related to the organization or something like that. And I just wanted to share it. Thank you.
Insight Myanmar 2:34:31
Thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you, all of the panelists, ever, all the listeners, everyone who came. This was planned to be 90 minutes, we've gotten over two and a half hours. And I think that just speaks to the level of enthusiasm and sharing and interest in this. So this is the first panel that betta Burma has has hosted with the support of unify and one like global and we hope it's not the last So we hope that this experience can lead us away to having more of these voices, more of the sharing and to have it reach beyond the Burmese and country, the diaspora, the Allies, that are already here and engaged in the issue, we hope that this can reach to the wider international community who may be learning about this for the first time or learning in depth for the first time, or are taking the time to educate themselves on what's really happening and how they can support and why it's important to be engaged. We hope that this could be the first of many going forward. And we, we just really appreciate everyone for being involved with this, they made it happen that that showed up to speak showed up to listen, that donated money that is to the fundraisers, that that are going to these humanitarian missions and who are involved in any number of ways and, and this just been I just really think of our panelists for their for their courage and their honesty, their vulnerability and their insights in sharing. So thank you, thank you everyone so much for coming. And this recording will live on in on the Insight Myanmar podcast feed as well as other places on Facebook. And so for those that missed part of this or want to share with others or want to go back and listen to something we will have a copy of this. So thank you, thank you, everyone for your involvement and, and for showing up and caring. It's it's meant a lot and it's been just a very powerful informative talk.