Transcript: Episode #112: Journey into Chin State

Following is the full transcript for the interview with Simon, which appeared on July 14, 2022. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.

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Host  00:21

The words of one friend and Yangon spoken while back still resonate in my mind. He asked me, How can I make people feel what it's like here? Because beyond all the details of events and circumstances, he found that it was exceedingly difficult to portray the actual feel that life and Myanmar has taken on since the coup. My friends question and forms every interview we undertake and insight Myanmar podcast, where we not only try to provide a safe and understanding space for our guests to tell their stories, but also to try to relate the feeling of what life there has become. We call them listeners to join us and bearing witness and opening up with empathy to the reality of the terror that now persists there. Thank you for joining us on this journey.

01:33

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA luckily, that was a good day Yeah.

Host  01:49

Maybe. I'm joined today by Simon who is a doctor from Qin state, and has spent much time in the region since the coup. This is a place that has been very hard hit, it's been very hard to get accurate news and information that's coming here. And Simon is going to update us about what he's been doing, what he's been seen and the current situation in and around Chin State and with chin refugees and IDPs Simon, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of insight Myanmar podcast.

Simon  02:47

Thank you so much for having me today.

Host  02:50

So before we get into the question of what's been happening in Chin State, since the coup if we can learn a little more about yourself so as far as you're comfortable in sharing about you as far as a safe, can you tell us something about what you were doing before the coup?

Simon  03:10

Thank you so much for your question. Yes. Firstly, as a medical doctor is very privileged to be serving my people with my capacity and then yes, I was doing my best to serve my people especially I was in public health care's and before coup happened and then yes, I was trying to promote your basic knowledge. And especially Primary Health Care says how important of knowing of this is basic health especially like for example, hygiene and how to make sure that we can be make sure how to clean our hands and everything because in you know, in the rural place, because of some time the children's and then the adult event, they got this kind of sickness, which is very things very basic, but then sometimes that become very threatening to the life for example, just simple diarrhea, the simple direct can take many life in that especially in the chain state in the south southern part of the state. However, after coming back to serving in my pupil and then letting them know how important hand washing and that's prevent huge numbers of light from ticking. So it was really great. And then also I was serving as you know that there was pandemic COVID-19 and also hitting Myanmar also around the world. And even that time I was able to serve my people and then teaching them dedications how important of this stance and then making sure that they will be very aware of what kind of COVID signs symptoms and how to be you know, for example, someone may have they may not be like panic or do something but inform right immediately to help workers so that that place or that people can be saved. And then I was also doing so much of education, health education around social production states. But then also I was trying my best to promote health knowledge in that society. But then this coo coo coo happened, everything become like vanished is like Blink of eyes, everything become like, you know, dreams, that I can no longer be with my people who I love most, who I wanted to deserve them most. And then yeah, now just like I'm away from my pupil. Thank you.

Host  05:40

Thank you for that. So let's look a little at Chin State. For those listeners that aren't, don't know so much about this region, this is the western part of the country had borders with India. This I've actually never been to Chin State although the couple of my my friend living in Myanmar for the years that I did, some of my closest friends were chin. So I learned a bit about the culture in the background through them. I understand Chin State to be just enormously beautiful, just a tremendously beautiful place of hills and trees and nature and animals. Also containing tremendous diversity. We say there's the the chin people or the chin ethnic group, but actually there's so many different dialects and, and subcategories of ethnicities within that greater chin designation. So really a tremendous, really tremendous amount of diversity among the chin people. However, it's also perhaps the very poorest state of Myanmar. And there are real struggles with just surviving and there's been for some time. So can you share a bit historically, in the past several decades, or however far you're you, you know, about the people and the culture of what, what what you would find in Shin state, what what the people in the culture are, what problems they faced, and just introduce it for audience.

Simon  07:12

Thank you so much for letting me express that people elections and then yeah, Delenn off where I was from. So yeah, unfortunately, going back to history, nation state is something that before this independence, we were under the British colony, and then of course, the Qin people were, we have recall, it's like a little compliment, I will say that in each village of the chain, people have ruled, it was ruled by, we'll call Chief Chief, like, they are like a tribe that they are called to be chief like in this term, like they are king in that village. And then they are rolled the people by themselves and then also like the tasks that the chief should collect all the tasks from his or her villager, and also where, whenever he he or she who and then we were very diverse, and then mostly in that time that you people worship like among like rivers and stones, etc. But however, after colonialism are colonized of this British, the chin become, we receive so much most of missionary from US and Britain. And then after that, we are trending from that, from like, from that religions into chin into Christianity. And then also we are very our team people are very united, we are very loyal. And we are very much how do you call this a humble people. And then however, because of Pine Ridge is going to give independence to Myanmar Burma, Burma, and then outside the General Aung San came to the chin and also other ethnic minority like such chains, such chants and then he makes sure that we will be joining with him to take this independence after independence, soon we will be ruled by our own this with our federal democracy. And then there was like, he, he said to this chain and all these people, especially another way to say that the founder of Myanmar was actually Bama chain, the chain shower and we came together and form this union union of union of Burma. However, whatever the promise and other word that given in that agreement became like something vanish because of this, Burma especially near when when they come to rule Myanmar and after that, we become very much Alpha pressures and there are no right for change, especially for minority and even for exam Well, either two people we are no matter how we are talented, and when we go to army, but we are that our race become chi and religion become Christian. And we are no longer cool more than more than mayor or like, yeah, Major, because of the religion become oppressive for us, I would have no right to express how we feel. And then I would like to say the champion while on like in Chin State, we are at more than 80% we are Christianity. However, in our own land, we cannot build our churches the way we want, we need to go and ask permission. And then in Chin State, most of the beautiful mounting and the beautiful area everywhere. These military calming make it a lot of pagoda, which is very heartfelt for the champion. And also in Chin State, we don't have proper this task quotation, and then there's no proper transportation. So there's no transportation, there's no communication. So there's no communication, of course, education become also very much heart. And I still remember that, most of us, even myself, when our in high school level, if I want to go to school, I'm gonna have to travel by foot, at least two to three days. And not only that, I need to carry my own ration. And also I have to carry my books. And I have to carry my staff, for example, like, I will call one village, let's say, village a, that village a doesn't have high school. So all the people of the student have to go to another village called village up. And then but in the village B they don't have high school as a Mission Center. So they have to go to at least the top. So the title and the village file some like buy fruit, at least you have to travel for days, from morning sunrise to even a sunset, like from 7am yoga. And then like you have to walk up by 5am. And then your coat everything that you eat, I serve and you have to travel all day long. And that you need to carry your own book Eurasians and your clothes, and you read to another village around 6pm. And then you cook there and then you sleep. And tomorrow morning you continue in light journey for four days, and then you reach the school. And then that's where you're going to get for your high school. Because of the cheap people. We don't have so much of educated people or because in Myanmar all if you want to go to university you need to give you need to get high grades. Or another way to say Hi Mark. And then because of that most of Czech people cannot score hide mark or destination because of their we cannot go to our course such doctors such engineering. And we don't have chin people we were very less who become adopters and who become engineering. Lonely I like like 10 years ago, because of without appropriate education. And in some village, they don't even have teacher enough, like example High School for grade 10 They have six subjects that is supposed to the government should provide six teacher however government cannot provide so they only have one teacher from government or to teacher from the rest. They have to find the volunteer pupil around the village. Even sometimes those who are not past grade 10 Teach them to the cretin. Just imagine that how that people can become or score great mark in the IRS examination and there's no electricity. So these are cheap people often use just a candle or just a lamp just for study. Or sometimes they use how to call that time tree pine tree that can burn easily. And that's how we study and also. So it is a very rural is no communication, no transportation. So who become adopters in Myanmar were before it was like who are living in city who have a good family background who can afford to go to their like tuition or boarding. So they become who they are the they are the one who become a doctor in future. And then when they become a doctor, of course, they don't want to go to Russia, because it's very hard. They never experience even they have to travel by foot so they can imagine because of that most of chimp people never see a doctor in some of them in their lifetime. And then I'll come to health perspective. When Jim people get sick, they don't have the medication, they don't have hospital. So they need to travel for at least four or five days again, like the student deed, and then how the sick people can work for 60 days. So the people carry him until the hospital they arrive. So some of people just die on the way. For example, imagine someone who is trying it and going to deliver but there is a condition that cost her not to able to deliver and have emergency case, but then have to travel for four or five days and bleeding on along the way. When they arrive, hospital, sometimes they don't even enough dread. So they just bring that body to their village. That's how people have chin suffer. However, we never give up. We never ourselves looked down. but that all should be thought, strife in education, we study hard, we try our best to become something for our people, something for our land. And because of that, if you look back to Myanmar history, we are the founder of Myanmar. Also honorable revolution tarps. In Myanmar, we always in, we always do our best for our country and our people, even in 1996 Did you and then Id 80. And then 90, sorry, 88 uprising, student uprising, which people were there in this country 21. Our revolution we change are the one also go go. It's also one of the history that made Myanmar we may all know that, but then we are very suffer for so long, for so much. And then during that time in Qin people, what happened was that in village, the army kames, to the village, village to village for our military travel, that people often have to carry the aerations. They are glad pawns everything we call the poacher we need to carry for them. Sometimes if there is no available, or there's not enough manpower is an 80 or 70 years old people are being forced to carry or to Yeah, to follow with the Army for the quarter. So we are very much you know, have gone through with this hardship. But then, like today, we still have to do meditate on Tuesday, but one of the commodities that we have is that we all love each other. In June state, we kill each other. And then again, we are almost 100% We are Christian in Tuesday. But we have different more than 53 languages in June state. We all are uniting why. Thank you.

Host  17:49

Thanks for that. That's quite a bit of history, both of the people and of yourself to go over. You reference 62 And 88 has been years that chin people join the revolution. I would add to that 4243 World War Two, the chin people were some of the greatest allies of the British and American troops that were fighting the Japanese and that it was largely because of the chin as well as the other some of the other ethnic groups that stood by the Allied soldiers that were behind enemy lines and helped to destroy supply lines and cause various sabotage and also when whenever American pilots would go down it was always the chin soldiers when it was in that territory that would go and look for the downed plane and be able to rescue the pilot. And in fact at the US Embassy in Yangon. Today, there's a statue if I'm not mistaken if memory serves me right of one of the of a chin soldier during World War Two just honoring the sense of service and that they provided to the Americans that were over there. And, and this was when the Bomar originally we're on the side of the Japanese and we're we're we're opposing the the allied forces of the British and the American. And and then as you say, when when Aung song and the famous panglong agreement was able to get independence from England, that many of those ethnic groups including the chin, actually, were not so happy about that they were looking for other arrangements and treated a bit better under the British role then they were under Bomar role and the chin resistance has been very strong today. And I've heard historically the reason for that is that there's always been a fierce independence in Chin State that even in the colonial period, the British never completely the word they use the time was pacified them that they allowed them some measure of autonomy and independence that that wasn't in other areas. And and so they've and of course there's The to me the the handmade flintlock rifle that Qin use for hunting. So they also have some progress with that. And so there is this kind of independent fighting spirit that has come to characterize Qin state. And as we'll get into in a moment, once we start talking about the coup that's been one of the theories people have put out of why the tatmadaw has been so brutal and chin is almost wanting to punish the, to punish this independent fighting spirit that that's there, as well as, as you mentioned before the the Buddhist proselytizing missions that there have been enormous efforts undertaken by military governments, to convert chin people to Buddhism and bring it by force to bring Buddhist teachings and, and monuments that are there while also preventing the free expression of Christian or animus views. So there's that as well. That's a lot to unpack and go over. But one of the questions I want to, to narrow it down to to lead to to give to you now and start to look at is just in your own personal experience and and childhood and young adult years growing up. What experiences did you have with the Burmese military or government in Chin State? How, how were you impacted? Where did you see their presence in schools in on roads in your hometown? Was there a particular experience or battle which, which remains in your mind or saw some some close relative that was lost? How when you look at your own childhood, growing up in Shin state, how how were you impacted or aware of the presence of the Burmese military there?

Simon  21:46

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, about the history of Myanmar. Yeah. But then yeah, I would like to also, again, explain about my childhoods and how they affect the military. Yeah, number one, I would like to say is that, of course, I was a student. So when I when I was in high school, all school that we were taught, especially history, it was a really lie, because we chin for example, we should also learn about our self, I mean, our own history, that is what our actions, our great, great parents, and then these people help people have stands for our people. It should have been done in the book, but it's never written down in our course. But we always learn about something like perma. Thy kingdom, like John said, and so on, but they are never a player all flowers, but then we are taught to be forceful to be learned those things, number one, number two, when we were I still remember when I was in high school, when the teacher comes to school, and then we have to create, like, for example, if the muse or the teacher comes in, and we often say that mean, lava siana, Amin Raava, Sia, it was something like optic reading of the teacher was a very polite way. I would I feel that it was good. But then in there was one call that Burmese versions that we have to us, something that grieving that we need to make our hands close together, like the way how they worship to their gods, in something like that we are taught to be but that was actually we chant people never did, but that we need to do that. That was like sometime we were offended. And I still remember when I was in high school, I even got punishment because of that. Number two, and you know that the chain people, you know, when I was in Kent State, I was very young, I didn't go in school, or did you never learn about Burmese language? But then amazingly, was that you are not allowed in me in my school? Yeah, I am cheating. So I supposed to learn also my own chosen language. But with in the school, we are not given this permitted. So all in our school will answer that Burmese English when as an English like subject, and then we are taught to learn that I think our teacher have to sometimes we don't have a Burmese people, then how would our teacher who taught us Burmese is not a Burmese people, they are just our Native people, and they were not good enough Burmese. And then there's also very hardship that I felt about how that team Yes, but then my language in language we were only used in Sunday school. I mean, the church every Sunday is a time that we are allowed to run our own language. Literature, we are not we don't have any freedom of literature in Myanmar, and also when I was in grade 10 I studied My greeting in a city, which called haka is a capital city of Chico State. And then when I back to my hometown, I remember that in that time, a military came to the village. And then of course, whenever the the military arrived, the village and the village council have to announce or make some announcement that the village will have to gather. And then they will count the men that will tell you all their staff that army will be going I freely nothing up, even you will not carry even his own board or Turbo bottles, everything has to be carried by the villager. So they gather all them, and they are not enough. So the manpower is not enough. So they have to ask one old man, and he is like 70 years old. So I really cannot look him to carry that heavy thing. So I helped him. So I also, I was asked variants of that portrait. And along the way, it was like, you know, there's no car, there's no highway in Chin State, especially in the village road was only big, as wide as just one feet or two feet. And then from top to the mountain, you go down to the river and you climb another mountain, and you can reach another village is slow and height, that's only then you have to carry. And then when I was carrying off the things on the way, or half of the way we arrived at the one guy was not really feeling well, he was very weak. And then he fell down. And they even they don't have such as you know, sympathy. The army, one of the army men comes and he he he hit on his neck, and then slap his face and say, bullshit, are you a lie, you a lie, do not pretend, do it. Or they say you are not supposed to be sleeping here. I'm not calling you for sleeping, something like that. He was like, you know, abusing him. Because the guy was very sick. And he's not have strength, so he cannot work any longer. So other people relate, you have to be helping, and then carry his stuff. So it was like my own that I have weakness. And also one of the army comes to the village, we used to be very afraid. And then there's no such a role for them, they come to one village, and if they want like to eat some dryness or cake, and then they kill it then and then they don't pay the kilt and then they lead the people the village or cook for them. Or if they want the chicken they took it without any event kind event the word of please. It's not as if we villager are capable of their assets, as if we are boring have something for them. That's how they deal to the people. And they always even we look there, but you look at me later. Hi there, how are you something like this. So people are very afraid. We used to be afraid so much of this military. And of course, the villager as I say even myself I was a student. And I am not Burmese car, how can I speak it fluently or, very frankly, a Burmese, even myself for example, an uneducated, so most of the most of the village council who are working as serving as Village Council. They are not educated. But they are the ones who are leaving the village. So they have to serve the council. And the Army comes when they speak to Burmese, and indeed on good. They used to get slapped because of his not good, impervious, something like that. So it was a nightmare for me. And then I still remember that friend in the in the school, if the military comes we need to be really welcome them fairly good way and some time there. We practice the way how to like almost like three days, four days, we used to get practice just to say hello to military, whoever that will come to school. So it was really a nightmare that after I pass my grade 10 in Myanmar and go into another country and see the people how they leave. But in my country, especially nation state was really a nightmare. And then they used to come like even Sunday. Of course we are people of I mean we are Christian. So in Sunday's our worship time, but even military right? And then we need to cancel our worship service just because of that only. That's how they have pressure or press to our people interested at the myself. And then of course education was really really terrible impact. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, so you Last lesson, I just like to say see that helped. Of course, we don't have such helped. I finished my grant, I've graduated my doctorate degree in 2018. When I traveled some village, when they see me, one of all men told me that I was the first doctors that arrived to his village in his entire life, he is 18 years old. In 2018, just imagine how much more way back in a loving way back in way back of the years and cheese, they would look like, that was 2018, I arrived, I have traveled to one village, but then I was very warmly welcomed. And then one old mentor me that I was the first ever doctor that arrived to the village in his entire life, he's 18 years old, in that time. So it was something that you know, you can event event, imagine that. And then again, it was really, you know, in school that I said, we are chilling people that we have right to learn our language, but we are never allowed, it was not something we would only learn our own literature, only Sunday school only. And whenever the practice everything was come from the booty space, yet we are not. And then sometime, they will come to the school on Sunday, then we need to prepare them wait and they cancel on the church services. So that's I will actually be expressed, thank you.

Host  31:39

So you're describing this history of subjugation there and looking at the subjugation of education of health of language, religion, I mean, these are the core values of any human rights and the right to self determination, as well. Of course, perhaps the worst is just the violence, just the a different people able to come to any village or any home and demand whatever they want. And there's nothing anyone can do about it. And and so I guess I'd like to ask a personal question and I want to forewarn before asking that this might be somewhat sensitive. So I'm, I'm trying to think of the best way to phrase it but you know, you're you're a a chin ethnic person, a Christian, and you have experienced a lifetime of this Bomar army coming and just terrorizing and bullying your people for as long as you can remember and even hearing stories before you were born, I'm sure. And as a person, how do you how do you deal with this internally? How do you I guess the the question I want to ask that I'm kind of dancing around because I don't know how to say delicately is how do you not hate them? How do you not live with a real hatred day after day and year after year for what this organization is doing? And then extending that to the wider Bomar group. Of course, the the those Bomar who are not in the military are not guilty of coming to your village and committing these atrocities. However, it's been well known that before the coup there were many Bomar who didn't quite believe how bad things were and didn't quite understand or sympathize with the way things really were in ethnic areas until it's the same things on the same terrorist started happening and in Bomar cities and so in your community and you personally how do you how do you not live with a kind of hatred, or, or dis or extreme dislike of? Firstly, the tatmadaw who's committing these atrocities. And secondly, even just the people who are not guilty of committing this but also not quite understanding before the coup of what was really happening. But you know, based on on conditioning and propaganda and other things, but still not not really understanding what you were going through for so many years.

Simon  34:15

Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's a really good question. Yeah. Firstly, I think myself there's like to take you this my own personal caution, because of my religion, I guess because Christianity, you know, that Jesus, Lord Jesus Christ has taught us to love our enemy and to pray for our enemy. I think there was none of that teaching us it had something in our back in our life that strengthened us to be able to forgive something. That is one thing, number one, number two. Yeah, actually, I don't know that how to prescribe describe. The thing is that when I was younger than recalling back on you asked me that question, what are calling back of all my memory in my childhood. I think even we don't know how the the meaning of hate, but I think it was actually the hate that we have, because we don't really want to see the army. Even we don't like the uniform until today, some of them, even the old people, when they see the green colors are close. They don't feel they don't feel good at all. I mean, I think it was something that will I will say that we hate it but then maybe also the fear because we were ruled by fear. They letting our to fear. And then this how the ruler, so maybe this we have a mix, mix of the feelings that we hate them, but then also we fear. So I only to describe it. But for myself one thing is that because of the religions that make us able to forgive them. Secondly, yeah, as I said before, because they lie this military live very well and make so much propaganda. And then that the history because the Burmese are the most of the majority of the youth have now to me today, they thought whenever we learn, become like something that's real, because as I say from great, from IDG, to grade 10 We have of course, the subject called history. But all the history written there was a lie. Everything about the goodness of the good things of Burmese, or Baba, that's all. But we are not learning any of the history of the Arctic people alter what happened. And we never learn about Amazon. We never learn about finance and we never learn about what happened after OMSA we are never taught and even below below we used to be say a word, but not really teach the people of Myanmar well enough or well educate them to know because they hide those things. And then in Myanmar, in way back of 2010. In Myanmar there are a lot of books are not able to read the Insight Myanmar, summer book essentials for Joe, because sensitive Is that a true because those books are history, which is real. And that if that's the real thing, if people Myanmar read it, of course, they will start to against to them they know very well, that it's why they prohibited some of the books is not available in Myanmar. Second, because of that, another way to say the Burmese majority of Amala so they brainwash and then they taught this ethnic group whenever we have this group, EEO is the most Appomattox, they are just you know, they don't know why they are, why they become like this, why there's existing of this, EEO, they never understood because they, they hide all the history, the true one, that's why they are not able to understand. And then, of course, as I said, the military example, if you look back to Myanmar, in Rangoon, there is the though there is a military camp, but they never admitted the military never go out from the camp with their uniform with their roaming around to Rangoon city, they never do. If they go to outside, they become like civilian a very good way, a good way, a good man away, and then they go to pagoda, etc. So in, in the eyes of rankled pupil, they are very good. And they are very obedient. They are very religious, but that people descend people, when they come to chin, when they come to Shang. They change, their color change, they start to torture, they start to oppress, they start to make some things you know, unacceptable to people like from me from the chain. So that is why they never understand the Burmese Muslim majority of the Obama people never understood what really happened. What kind of mindset this military really have. Because with them, they are very good, as I said in Rankin is very hard to even you look, if you tried to search the army in rank good city, it's very hard to find that they are in the camp, if they go out, they dress it civilians and they are very, you know, well dressed, well speak, go to the coda on worship something, do a lot of religion stuff. So they are so much religion, something like that. But on the come to change, they're totally different. So that is why the things happened. Number two, lastly. I think now this day will become you know, getting others and reading off of books and I understand people have the mindset And then I thought, oh, no, all the mud and majority are not really doing these things, but the minority who are really troughing off, or who are thriving of the role who really wants to be dictatorship or this other one people, not all of them. That's how I described. So I think that treason I can say to you today, thank you.

Host  40:23

So you've characterized a bit about this relationship between the Qin people and the more people as well as the Tomodachi. Over the past few decades, I want to ask what's different since the coup happens? So in the year plus, since the coup was launched, how would you characterize the march in relation since then?

Simon  40:45

Okay, after the coup happened, I think the MA people start to open their eyes and they see something it which they never saw before, which they used to hear like a dream or a story. Because after the coup happened, and uprisings take place, and then the people of their own DOMA are the one who started shooting to the MA, and then they come to your house, they arrest them, they harass them, they torture them. And then they never I think this most of the Burma never thought that really happened. But then of course, they see now, in 2007, there was also called shoe ion, ie, even that time the mile have seen very well, they should have aware of that actually also, because in Dumas, I mean, not only the mapper in around Buddhism, one of the most respected and well you know, give respect is among the Hmong also they call it God, they are like serving them as a god, they worship there, they really respect but still uncom to something about their altars authorization or something that come to them. They don't excuse any off event to the account, they kill it, they bully it. So, in 2007 It was really happened but I think the market will not really realize for the two colors of this military ready but in this 2020 won't happen. And then that this the protocol and then this you know, a human being like they are human actually even I don't know how even I can describe they're really evil, the evil called the the evil work the evil ideology were more more described by themselves as So, heavily distributed do one was also about COVID People are dying for COVID people are looking at people searching and asking for help, because of the survival from COVID. And we all are trying even across the world. It was really really a matter of life. So people are doing their best organization, organization, government to government, by individual doing by Myanmar, just imagine they cut off oxygen. And then even they can still play COVID As for the weapon just to kill the people of Myanmar, their own tempo. And then it was really really I don't know how even Can I can describe so introduce them to one that's what I think and I believe the biller will be aware from now on, they will see things clearly. Otherwise I think it is it will be a big memory for ethnic group because even now our achieved not only the chin, but Rakhi Sharon kitchen and all of us. We assume we have been suffer for so long for so much. And then until today this military are killing us and torturing us even raping us. And we have been saying so much for like decades about these things but most of the time we are being ignored we are like always put aside our voice was never heard. But then this digital one comes when the people get really tired really get touchy or really can't suffer and they realize a little bit more I guess that it also now they become more of they are the one not shouting and trying for this federal democracy and then saying and then some of them also saying you know sharing in public that we should say sorry to our brother and sister off and we have made so much you know wrong and they will have interpreted the soap so much you know things in because of this Bring by being brainwashed by this military, that we have believed them so much that we never look for our brother and sister how they suffer, we always ignore them. But this time, we have to accept that we need to apologize to them. That's what some of them are saying. And even some might have said some words, this day when we do this revolution, even if this ethnic group people, ethnic people, even though even though if they don't join with us, we should not blame them. Because we need to feel their feeling we need to see, we have to understand I mean, that's what they say. So now are reaching people, we also fighting for our revolution, we are fighting to Iran to you know, we opt dictatorship in the land of change, also the length from Myanmar. And then, if ever that the more people understand accept what our feeling was in before, and if they accept, we are also ready to be working with them. But of course they are that we have some doubt, because of this decades of what they have done to us by this military. But we still try our best to serve and to do something good for our people and for our nation.

Host  46:25

Yeah, I can understand that. These are some really heavy things that you're dealing with. And I've also heard some of these beautiful apologies and self reflections largely from the younger Boomer generation, I'm just thinking about some of the podcast guests that I had on PPO Joe, who's a doctor, a gay doctor from Mandalay, who went and worked in Kearney State and when I spoke to him last month about his experiences he I'm reflecting that he expressed a belief that there was just a hidden racism among many Bomar people that that's unexamined. And that's posits that kind of superiority over other ethnic groups, that is, that needs to be looked at and understood. And I there's another active Bomar activist I had on last year named thought Tet, who expressed a similar thing who just talked about his awakening of how how racist he felt his Bomar community was and how much he was trying to change that. However, one of the things I'm thinking is that when this particular excerpt of thoughts hat when he spoke at length on my podcast last year, about his concerns of some of the inherent racism in his Bomar community, and how he wanted to confront those and change those. And when we posted his podcast, we had some pretty strong pushback from some Bomar who were pretty furious about this kind of language and really resisting this, some of the things that thoughtout was saying that about this underlying racism, and I think that there is a generation gap. And actually thoughts have talked about that, in his very interview, he talked about how it's harder for some of the older generation, the boomer generation to, to open their minds in the same way and that there's because of some kind of conditioning or some kind of familiarity. For example, if one if at the MAR Buddhist is raised with a deep understanding of showing respect and reverence to monks who have great karma and great, great power, that you Who are you to question them, and who are you to critically think about them and your you should review them and you should have good deeds of speech and body and mind. And so I think still today we do see and even the Bomar the older more activists that I've seen, that there is a head of hesitancy to call out monks who are wearing the robes but are also doing somewhat problematic things for the movement or was supporting the military. There's also I think it's just an inherent human quality that people people like power, I mean, groups like power, I think we're seeing that in my country of the how, how difficult it's been to examine some of the white power structures that have been in place for so long and looking at white privilege and how being a white person in America that even if you're not actively engaging in some kind of racist activity, you're still benefiting from a racist system. And, and you're privileged in ways that non white people aren't. And I think that that probably something similar can be said in Myanmar that even if a Bomar person is not directly engaged in some kind of racist activity, let alone some barbaric activity like the Commodore they're still privileged in a way that non non Myanmar aren't. And so many of the ways you talked about I mean, you can practice your own religion you can speak your own language you can't train to be what you want to be if you have a health problem, you can't get access. These are all ways that being that that that being not part of the majority is is punishing you in some way and that others are benefiting and privileging have been privileged from so where this is all going, the question I want to ask is looking at the power structures that have remained or that have changed since the coup. And I think we're both in agreement that the younger Boomer generation Generation Z has really been pushing this conversation and change and they've done some beautiful things they've there have been open apologies there have been pushes for examination and, and looking at things they didn't understand before and wanting to know them and wanting to not just have a revolution that wipes the Talmud off the table, but also a revolution that is fair and free and equitable to all not not just ethnicities, but to women, to the LGBT community to to all peoples that that can enjoy some kind of protection they haven't before. But what about some of the older Bomar leadership, the older Bomar Democratic leadership, I should say, that might have some of these entrenched views more than others, they're certainly against the Ramadan, they're there. They're there. They're trying to, I think the some of this older but more Democratic leadership definitely is wanting to bring about much greater, more humane values that that that would be a safer and freer country. And yet there also could be some embedded unexamined aspects, that they're still not seeing how they're part of that power structure, the privileging Bomar or Buddha's in some way at a disadvantage to others. And I'm thinking specifically the end ug, I'm wondering if you have any thoughts or comments or perspectives about this because of the the ministers obviously Dr. Sasa is a chin minister who has some degree of prominence and and respect and renown and is in a primarily Bomar, Bomar lead group, many, not all but many of the ministers do come from a Bomar Buddhist background. And so I'm wondering if you have been a chin person working for democracy and freedom and looking at what's happening on the ground and then contrasting it with some of the leadership and at a ministerial level. How have you seen Dr. Sasa as a chin person as a chin leader, who's representing not just Chin State but all of Myanmar and the freedom and the rights of all people living in that country? How have you seen him welcomed into kind of the old NLD guard and the old Bomar order? How have you seen him welcomed and work with in ways that perhaps might have not not happened before that was more privileged? Or have you seen some of the old ways repeating themselves and him not perhaps getting the same respect or cooperation based on being a minority? What have been your your thoughts and perspectives and seeing that?

Simon  53:09

Yeah, okay. Firstly, I think I would say that, as I'm a Christian, so in a Christian, in Christianity, it's, there is Jesus Christ have taught, teach us that love your neighbor as you love yourself. So loving is very important. So in love, there's no boundary at all. So if you love and that isn't racism, if you love, there is no religion. If you love that, there's no, I will say that there's no boundary at all there is to just love the world so much. And then he came, and he gave his life. And then Paul said clearly that in Christ, there's no Judaism, there's no genotype, there's no as you know, we all are come saying, I mean, we all are saying the name of Jesus. So meaning that Jesus laughs So in Him, we all are say, I mean, this is very important, I guess that we have to play in our lives, whether we are Christian or whether we are Buddhists, or whatever we are. But I think we all can love each other. Loving. It is never a bad thing. And all the religions have thoughts about love. But the Myanmar one of the things that I I'm calling back in my memory and thinking was that this six, seven decades passed the military rule Myanmar, with hatred, they teach how to hate, they teach how to fear, but they never teach how to love and respect and value. This is the problem. So most of these old people, they are like, you know, in hurting just to say in DNA is even in the DNA. It's been pure of those. I think those ideology. That is why they always think that Burmese is some things clearer than that. as of that date city in the Myanmar, in actually, as I said, Without chain without a chain, without Shah, union Adama would never bore that's we have to accept isn't the fact and the truth was, we come together, we come and unite and then we fall, and then union and Burma was born. That is where we can able to get the independence from the British. So if she in the time, general ensemble representing of Burma government, so she, if it didn't, I agree, I think no one really happened. It was Sharon didn't agree in that time, it don't really happen. But I think all the our leader in that time, they love each other, they kept each other, they believe in each other. That's why they can come together, and then make a new nation so called genuine of goldmine. But this day, the military training in the military leaders in the RAM side, the dark side, just to maintain your altars, alternative authority, and then just to rule the way they like. So if people are more divided, we mourn week, then they can rule over us. That's what their strategy have been played for this many years. That is right now, they also most of the all generations, were steeped into hatreds, they're sure they kind of accept the fact for this, but new generations like Generation Z, because now they in Myanmar, in after 2010, many things become more open than before. And then this generation is able to read so meaning of books and things and that they learned and then they able to see the world and the humanity, the value of human rights, the rise of human being, which is not really play very well in my country. Sadly, there is right now, when this coup happened, most of the Generation Z are able to see the you know, the true and the fact because because of their open your heart, because they open their eyes, this way they can able to see and they can accept it. But the old people, they are really, really hard to accept those stay. Because of in their mind, the heart is state that they are superior, they are right, something like that. That's all, everything was already done by the military as a master plan. Number one, number two about how to salsa and ug perspective. I think progression is every we want to make something progress. I think it's neat. It's, it's the times, it's take time, I would say, for example, I myself in my childhood. I never dreamed to become a doctor, but then just certain things. But then I would say that when I was in 10 years old, I couldn't be able to come a doctor. Because I was still here, I need to pass many of class I mean, I need to attend many classes that I can become to a doctoral level. So in order for me to become a doctor, I need to study very hard. And then I need to display very well on myself. And then to be you know, focus on my study. Otherwise, I mean, become a doctor. I went to study. I mean, I went to university, and then dreaming to become a doctor. But never study every night, going out and joining with someone else and drinking alcohol every night. I think I would never become a doctor. But if I were to become a doctor, I need to patient and give times that I have given for seven years to become a doctor. So I need to sacrifice seven years for earning of this degree. And also not only giving off my time and patience, but also I need to work hard to display myself and believing in myself. This is very important. I get that apply in the country as well. So now new tools are trying their best to come to rule inclusively. That is why they are trying their best to invite some more for Edney. I mean, people like to talk to salsa. And also in YouTube. If you look at the the ministerial level, there are like at least four or five of ethnic people are invited and also in the deputy ministerial level. And also inside of this ministry. I mean, a new CI a and also they also come up with this so called an UCC. In UCC, also, at UCC is a platform where all people can come together work together, not only just another party, but also this generation Z CDM. EEO, and like minded parties, events, and so much of them are coming together and GCC. And then this also we need to remember is that is a revolution period. So, thing is the revolution period, we should assume was focus on the authorization, but rather, we need to look for the fact that the truth was important, we need to really identify what are prioritized, we need to, we need to list down things that will be characterized, the things to be due by followed by things, because if it will make it distribution longer, we're going to wicker, but when we make it a short period of time, and then we will win it, because this military has many so many of sources in there. So, it's very hard to, you know, fight with them. However, we have the heart of the people of Myanmar, we have the people in revolution, in military side, only money and authority are with them. The rest is not with them, the willingness, the love the care, everything is with the people of Myanmar. But one thing they usually have to do is that they need to focus more of what's really need to be done in first step or other way to say, prosperity. And then when you say about the role of Dr. Salsa, I think, still need to have something more to do in n ug itself. Yeah, there are many things that to be comment. But again, I say is too early to some time to just to make just judgment. Because everything we need time, maybe you want to become a better person, or very qualification or better thing than it's needed. You need to get more time. And then also annuity itself has to take some time, at the same time. Like I have to give my myself. And if I want to become a doctor and an end to display myself, I need to be focused on YouTube also, likewise, they have to have some period of time to make it more challenging staff transformation, I will say that, and also at the same time they need to be displayed they need to be very focused, not just you know, running and waving around, I think the year.

Host  1:02:38

Thanks. That's really good to hear and to get your your thoughts and background on it. Let's move now to looking at what has been going on in Chin State since the coup. You have been you've been very active in obviously, supporting the medical needs everywhere, both personally as well as coordination along with IDP camps, which have been growing and growing and network throughout Qin state to be able to respond to some of those atrocities. So can you take us from the very start for listeners that really haven't been following or placing what exactly has happened in Chin State since February 1? Can you give us a general overview of how Chin State and chin people have been impacted and have responded since the initial coup?

Simon  1:03:33

Okay, thank you. Yeah, going back to first of February in creditor so looking back in that time, of course, in that very moment I in that February 1 Morning no one thought that didn't happen. It was like a nightmare actually no one believe it and that's happened the chin Oh, we are like what? Looking? We're not really sure really. But they're starting from brand good slowly appraised for start to happen. Again, like things are growing and whenever that's happened and chin is directly involved, we're directly involved in Tuesday we have town I mean like township we have nine townships so like how content the land the the Folau to his company Palawa would up mean that and yeah, I think that's all it I'm not mistake that night. In those all night they all participate in as much as the way they can't in each township or even some village they are very like 30 households. Just imagine only toward the household. If I say in population, maybe they are 300 population in that village event. There is no military there is no government office. Nothing they are just a little village The lifestyle is just going to the fall, good morning fall, coming back everything. And then they happily living that way like, you know this religion lifestyle actually, to express it even that when they heard that me on lie to me online and attend Yeah, when they heard it they are really mad they're really angry at that. Holly do they want you of course they heard it from someone and then they go to where they can able to access the internet they look they say oh in Rangoon and change in her car in minute only the people are addressing and they hold the paper and they return like something something like the shout out how they do where they learn it, they come to your house and media village that the zoo it cannot together. And then whenever they fight even the wound or other available thing, they write their CGM. We have to do CDM sit on RC, su Chai AMI, et cetera, they write whatever they are able to get into that. And they bring it, they start to perform it exactly like her in the town happening. And they took a picture, and they send to some of it and they don't know where to send. So they share it to like someone who can they trust and who can be able to publish for them. And then when they send it those people can sell to like insurance, they will have some media, they can learn some things they send to them like to them and then this how even in even in the intermediate they were appeared that's even I can even my own eyes, I can able to see that. So what that means that we really, really involved in 100% in this crew, and after that, it means that event, they bring your hours you know, all you know, even there to meet and their dance everything and they come to all the all my events, 90 years old, then whoever can walk, they do it, even little boy or little child, even two years old, they still come to with their mom and their parents to the whole day or you know, the sunny day, just to stay there and to shower, all they have done and then after what happened the coop and mean that the tire start to happen. And then of course, all most of our cabinet services like health education, most of the government employee, they start to join NCTM and most of cin D this government sector become like clapping. And then as I said, just imagine that mentioned state until 2020 our health system is not really good, we don't have really good you know, we have only insurance they will have nighttime chips. So if I'm not mistaken only 10 or 12 Hospital we have approaches. So all of them start to shut down at the just imagine you cannot stop the patient not to see so where they will go that was really really challenge that we face and then our children all of them couldn't able to go to school and then later on everyday everyday even myself I always go to everyday morning I woke up and I do I prepare and I want to hold the all the way and then and then shouting that we don't like this Myanmar and everywhere across the state from I say from two years old to 90 years or other witches whoever can walk or who will look and be able to tell by the parents they all are evolving in this in the streets and then after that the military start to shooting them and then capturing them and then you know torturing them. The children are they did all the shoot. They gather they say we need to make something for ourselves protection or does we have what else we have? And then they decide okay, we need a training so they join CNC. Actually we chill people have this age group because the NSC and F so they turned to them and they get trained. And when they get trained from 14 almost like 1516 Whoever can able to go to jungle. They all want returned to this military. I mentioned we call it Chyna Defence Force and then all the shooters start with joining not because they are fine, but because they don't they hate really this military and they don't want to see them. They wanted to wipe out from Chico State. So they all join. And some of them their parents have their father have cans. And they say, Papa, Father, please give me your some of them are like you know each in state. Yeah, before going back in June state when we call this, they call this when you will have a hearing from your parents for your asset in Chin State, one of our very, very values that is to meet and this is something that our, we have to be very, you know, this is something that we are getting from special gift from our parents or our grandparents. So we've added value there. But then for the youth people said the young boy, Father, I will take this one and our Gen cdf, your parents say okay, as long as you do something for our country, go on it. So most of people start to join all goals all alike. I mean, I will say that all boys and girls joined to defence force. And it was your look to statistic in Myanmar CTF we achieved the highest number of who have joined in this city, and also tend to land Township, Army title and town, almost the whole town was burned down, has it become anxious, because we all fight all the time people fight to the military, the military knows how to make them how to make their heart rate. So chin which people value our houses, because this is something that like, you know, one of our most treasures and cheap houses like something a treasure for us with very value. They know it very well. So they are destroyed. It's like they destroy our heart. So that we can feel pain, so that we will reconnect and then returned to them and say sorry. But of course, we will never say that. They burn it down, we become more stronger. They they make more torture, we become more resilient, resilient. So this has happened in the past, one usage in state and of course, education sector collapse HealthCentral collapse, almost entirely of carbon managers they collapse. They can do nothing, the government and the military can do nothing at all. Because of that, now inches, if you look in their tissues, they tend to have burned down, reservoir, and then minute. And then until today, there are ongoing fires and myth battles between SAC and our German defence force and across the state. Everywhere almost, we are fighting. And then what happened to the Qin pupil, we don't have hospital. We don't have all our doses, most of our nurses, our doctors join CTM wherever cheap people they try it. So we don't have hospitals so that people can suffer. So most of people die. And then like last year, I I may have shared your story that in refugee old lady who is about 90 years old, on the villager run to a border off to India to cut the military come to their religion as Dr shot shoot and then start to burn in around so they all are friends. So they all entire village around to this Indian border. And that old lady also no choice or he has she have to follow along with her fellow. And then how they arrived to refugee camps in India. After some time, she gets sick. I don't know if there was the in that time there was no treatment. There's no health care. So she passed away. But before she pass, she talked to her group sound that she requested. In some people are a buddy of we are very value. So whenever we die, we really wanted to carry our body and buried in our own land. That's something in nature things that which can change people have so she requested no matter how, even though there's no more people in our village, please do not bury my body. The foreign land. Please bring me to my village and burn me in my village that was her last which I then she passed or she died. So her she A great Chilean was very upset and very sad. And it was really how do you call this hard to decide, he is afraid to go back to his village, but they cannot also bury his grandmom in the foreign land because it was the last request or the quiz from her. So, there is no choice. So what she did what he did, he he took a motorbike, motorcycle, and then he sit in the front and his, his grandma body, he put it in his bag, and he tie with, into with row. And then of course, the dead body is flopping. So the lead the head, isn't, as you know, is, is floppy. So they tie it along with his body everything. So they do only floppies and they tight with the rope very tight. And then the evening in seven like 7pm or 8pm, he started to travel alone to his village in daytime is dangerous. Nighttime was more safer. So he drives for 10 hours. And upon arrival to his village, no one was in no, no one was in the village. He and his grand mom that by the only and he buried in there. Right after he buried, he came back to India, it was in a you know, touching story. That's what really happened. Not only her, but there are many more, that's happened because of this crew. The two people, almost half of the population become IDP and refugee are there most of the students become uneducated. Now, most of chip, people are not schooling for two, almost three years, from 2020 because of COVID. Most in 2021 to 2022. When we look back to our mortality rate, Tuesday, our elderly mortality was increase rocket height because of they have to run here in there. And because of that, they pass away. And then myself, my uncle just passed away in 2022. March 1 week of March, actually, he also was he was, as you know, 80 years old, he was in a village. And then of course I have away from him and almost one year he got sick, and then I cannot contact him. They don't have any connection. I always think that he was good. He was healthy. But almost one year he wasn't feeling well not able to check up and then become kind of malnourished, because they know he don't eat properly. Yes, you know that in the village, there's no medicine, no advertise No, not good, really not good food. So. And then after last year, I mean, this year, in early January, most of his village also military arrived. So they afraid and everybody started flee. And then he also come to he also you know, he was elderly. So the villager said is you have to be evacuate first. If it's something good that you need to come back. And then when you come to the border, he start to cough almost like non stop and the he will become very sick. And when we come to India, and then we admitted in one of us in India, but it was too late. And then he passed away. So there are many of people who suppose not to be passed away just because of lack of health care. Most of people die and even pregnant woman, the monitor I just introduced 2122 22 mortality rate becomes so much higher because we don't have this health system that teenage marriage and teenage pregnancy become high because our kids are not schooling for two years. And then they are living in the house. I mean, the village or in the house doing nothing. And that's become so much effect of origin, who was supposed to be our future of danger. And future started actually. But now it's become, you know, a challenge for us for our people, because most of our kids cannot able to come to the school. And then of course now the school are going on, but most of our kids don't want to join to the school because they are CDM students. So that's really what's happening origins date for these two years.

Host  1:19:56

And you mentioned the growth of IDPs internally displace people that are having to flee. This is happening all over the country of villages being burned villages being attacked by air compounds, monastery or school compounds that are being taken over by the military to pursue operations, just one horrible thing after another. In the case of Qin, I understand that there have been many Qin people who have crossed the border into India, and have settled in camps and Mizoram. And this is quite an interesting development, we had a recently we had an interview with international relations expert on Myanmar. And he noted this saying that this is really indicative of the federal of the federal democracy, the India is because on one hand, you have the head of state of India, Modi, who is really quite supportive of the military and not so much of the democracy movement, and has actually openly said openly resisted the call for refugees. And yet, at the same time, this expert Hunter Marston has his name. He mentioned that museum, not just at the local level in terms of the people living there, but even the local infrastructure and politicians and such have been quite welcoming to the Burmese and especially the chin refugees that are coming in, despite the different policy at the head of state of the country. So I'm wondering if you could share a bit about what you know about how the chins are getting to India, how they're settling there, how they're being taken care of, and what is happening in that border region.

Simon  1:21:45

Okay, so yeah, so in our resumes and our Chin State, most of our culture believe that also language are safe, even our literature. So no matter event, this bold national boundary make us great, but our identity cannot separate. So one of the very reason that now the Maduro government welcome formerly to our people, especially chin. And then now Yeah, Maduro has officially from the stage accept us and welcome us. Because of that. Currently, across Mizoram, we are allowed to settle. So most, for example, we are allowed to make our refugee camp in the village, the border. And then but here suddenly thing to tell you says that these local people are warmly welcome the people or the cast from Myanmar who are refugee, but then themselves has hard time believing in you know, because Indians are not really a great country, in terms of economy. So at the village level, the economy and your incomes are quite low. So they are living for good for themselves. But it's really tough or half hard for them to share to others. So whoever comes through refugee in their village, in the community, they are being woke up and then allow them. But when come to food, materials, it's really hard. So the people of Myanmar, or the refugee people need to still look for the aid, especially for humanitarian aid for a shelter, food, medical support, and also education, which is not miserable, miserable state can do all they can do so that allows them to stay safely. So they and another way to say that Mizoram states provide the security and the safety of the people and they give them a place where to settle. But when it comes to shelter, food, medical and education, they cannot provide so they need to look for themselves. So because of that, and ug and then also other local NGOs INGOs being pushing them to be come to help to the border here need Mr. Ram, at some point they can do but at some point still. We have many challenges ongoing in refugee camps, because they come here in last October I mean sorry last. In March, April and slowly the refugee numbers are increasing. Increase slowly, just slowly by slowly and now we are going soon to most of our rainy season and most of them were a few As you are living in not the house, but in the audio call this the the floor is just only the ground, they use the floor and for the roof they use dappling. So, if it come to rainy season even heavy rains occur, they will not have a place where to stay because they flopped. And then even there is some more strong, and then that can wipe out their toppling, and even that, and then of course, it's become very challenged. So, now we have so much worry for their shelter is still really challenged the secondary education the children's come here and then as I said, we are some of people are living here in morale some of them alive, but again in Myanmar in chain. As I said there are many languages out there, but who come here who are Moriah. And living in Morocco, they have no much problem but who come and live in Morocco, but they are not Marathi or other tribe, they have language barrier. And did your kids have also language barrier and then welcome to school, Myanmar system and India system is totally upside down I mean totally different. So our kids cannot learn and stay with local kids. So they have to separate but the school only one. And then suddenly, the community also helping them but then they cannot do so much thing. So what they do is that before the local kids go to school, there fugi kids have to wake up early morning, go to the school, and then when the kids of the local go to the school, then they need to come back. When the kids of the local people come back, they have to go to the meet in evening. So it has become something very challenged for kids. Just imagine for four years, eight or nine years old gates have to work up by around morning, early morning five and go to school and the whole day. Because there's not enough space in the home they have to stay in the house but the evening you need to go back to the school and then the teaching the books and everything become very quite new for them. So the environment is some things very challenged for children. So if Elva there is some one can help or donate or something shelter, it will be very great that we can able to help them for our construction may be in a really good one. But for school perspective, the food's also still as I said, still the challenge as in health, there is no health care. They are overpopulated or they are overcrowded, and gathering and they're in a place where closely that there is no health manager met or even some of Desi come from medication available. So when they have some kind of sickness, it's become so much challenge for them. And then of course some of nurses are available or midwifery also have gone through for CDMA coming with that, but they don't have any kind of medicines or things with them. Because they don't have income. Okay, if they tried to buy but all the refugee they can afford to buy unless someone can provide them only in their way we can do something for health system. So again, as I said, the overcrowded so imagine teenage people are all are together there. I think your future, it may happen some unnecessary stuff that we don't want to be happened. So we need what we need education, what kind of education, health, education, self education, and also right Education, Human Rights and all because if they don't know those things, how could they prevent themselves? How can they treat themselves, so all kinds of things, like kind of education, that can be a benefit to them. That would be very much need for them for I mean, who are living in Minnesota, but again, zero carbon we really appreciate we're really thankful and gratitude for their chi, heart and concern for and the love for us. But of course they also don't have much of income. I mean, they are not great at the wealthy state. So all they can do for us is that providing us a place and then providing some security, which immediate the military cannot come inside to mess around that they can do for us for now.

Host  1:29:58

Sure, I mean This is really a devastating portrait that you're depicting. That's Apocalypto, really, I mean, you're talking about the complete breakdown of all aspects of society and a society that's been repressed for decades before this. And even as these services break down, you have an active enemy in your midst who's raining downhill fire from above, on vulnerable people unable to defend themselves. And there's just these people are are completely defenseless, and without almost any support, just trying to defend themselves in some kind of way. And, and on the run, trying to live in some kind of safety to say nothing about normality. Looking at actual numbers, do you have any sense of how many people are on the run? And how many people are in it IDP camps, and how many are settling in Mizoram, do you have any rough estimate of that?

Simon  1:30:58

rough estimate for refugees is around now we are more than 60. We are reaching to 100 1000s. Crossing soon, we're going across and then inside. So yeah, inside, IDP we are more now we have become more than two unwritten site. And then also another way to say that on your say about this IDP and refugee, we are saying we are numbering of who are right now currently living in IDP camps, who are living in refugee camps. But most of the village are not secure. They don't feel secure. So they just in there, but the hardest, the most nervous, you know, how do you call that feeling? Secure themselves. So every day, where we're gonna run, that's what they feel. So if you visit this time in the village, so a village, you will see in their house, there's ready pack for the material that when something happened, they will run it. So the thing that already like to that they will not waste your time for patenting. So I mean, yeah, of course, since they, none of us have secure, none of us are protected enough. So I would say that most like all of our 100%, I would say 80%. Still, we are like IDP and refugee, just America that some of them run away, some of them are not. But the feelings are saying.

Host  1:32:40

And that's really devastating, especially when you look at when when one contrasts, the level of support that's been given to Ukraine and the struggles and the hardships they're going through. You're talking about 100,000 Refugees IDPs, that are just left to fend for themselves and have so little outside support, and so little attention of the world's capacity to care and to engage in this mass exodus of people that are that have no way to defend themselves against an evil that will do anything to them. And so along those lines, I'm wondering, you know, you you referenced earlier in our talk, you referenced what happened to that laying the the almost complete destruction of that Qin city. I think it might be worth spending a little bit more time there that happened a few months ago. So I think maybe in the memory, it's not as fresh as some of the the other terrible events and current conditions that are going on, from my understanding, and correct me if, if I'm mistaken, because you're much closer to the events, the situation in mindat, followed by the situation and that Lang has been some of the two most devastating incidences that have happened to Qin state in the past year are truly truly horrific. And not only have these things happened, and been so damaging, and so absolutely terrible. But they just simply haven't been reported on. They haven't been really known in the detail that they should be. And so I know that you were very involved in that laying and supporting the relief effort there. And in talking to people about what they were going through, we were in touch at the time. And I should also mention that our nonprofit better Burma sent donations to your effort there as well as to we've we've we've allocated donations from better Burma to all kinds of programs throughout 10 states including Mizoram, and as you referenced a moment ago calling for foreign listeners and others to be able to support the Qin people. We definitely want to encourage that if there's any chin organizations that people are already giving to. That's wonderful if anyone would like to give a donation to better Burma and to earmark the chinkara As and to your organization's specifically and make sure to get those funds to the great work that you're doing. So want to make sure listeners know about that. But getting back to failing, can you take us back and just give us a bit more detail a bit more color about what actually happened there. And, and some anecdotes, I know that you were in touch with many residents of the town. And so you, you learned quite a bit of detail about what they were going through and what happened during those terrible days. So for listeners that that don't know anything about that, and never heard of that land, or even those who maybe saw a few Facebook posts, but all they saw was just a plume of smoke rising from a hilly residence area. I didn't know much more than that, can you lay out some more detail as to what what happened there and why and what the result has been?

Simon  1:35:55

Okay, thank you. Yeah. So before mentioning of that, yeah, one thing that I almost forgot. So, let me pull it out back to refugees. situation then in India, I almost forgot. So, let me mention on that, firstly, so, you know, in now in India, some of village as I said, they are villagers, a community, but a small village, but they're very much I'm open and they're welcome for refugee. So one of village and your household is only 35 household, and the population was like, less than 200 population, that residents are that villages. And now they are hosting. It says imagine they are only 30 households, but now they are hosting about 50 Plus household, which are about 100 the population are no no 500 above population, which almost doubled, and then the hoster they are hosting even much bigger than their population or even more than their household, that how could they take care of to them? It's become a big question, you know, it's really challenged. So now when I said refugee, in other words to say that not only refugee become problem now, even the community itself have facing so much trouble, because they are a little town, I'm in a little village and so, in other tools you can picture is that the little village so, one of their water source could be swore their water source and then the Lively's style, like farming and everything can be small, but now imitate are like, suddenly a huge people come and gather with them. So how are they going to manage their water issue, how they're going to manage their food, in your farms and the gardens? Just imagine that. So now, it's really really we have in the difficult situations that I think then international should be able to understand that picture for that. So, thank you that I just would like to really be praying for refugee situation. And now going back to your questions to state firstly to picture of where the city is, is that in Chinse the the Hawkeye is very much central haka is in the capital city of jeans day, it is so much Central 14 state. So inhaca not an insurance they we can divide it into North and northern South southern part of chin and then not a ton of Chin State. So in her cannot impart our flat dindane Windsor, and then Canada, they are not a part and the southern part is Denver to be minted komplette Palawa these are the southern part and then Hawkeye sumo center compared to all nine township insurance state, and then one of the nearest township from haka is that the tentang is which burned down almost entirely of tongue and then after Tantra if you go some more there and you will find that this is after 10 counties you go more than this already closing more to border of India. And then this is where also our chin national army origin National Forces has base their camps. So military, why they wanted to attack this one because of they also wanted to turn around me, but they cannot do it. But then again, this is very near to her car. So in her car is capital CT, where the military put most of your troops across Chin State, if you look at the top is the capital city, and then from hochkar, 10 times very near. It's like, ah, if you make mistake, I think it by bus by car, it's one to two hours drive, I think away from her car to Tanzania. So it's very near. And then in terms, of course, they wanted to make sure that the people often come afraid, so that when this military wanted to go to this border site, they can go easily, button down, see the FR there and the other, like Zopi and zoom out to see the CDFI there. So for them this troubling is kind of challenging. So they're also I think my perspective of use that is are they make sure that they make it something for tantra, so that the people often will be afraid so that they can be you know, their transportation way more, much easier. That's where they attack heavily. And then this, you know, make it make sure this become anxious. And in that time, no one thought that this military will go such massive attack to civilians, because they know tantalum is civilian who are living in there. And then you just imagine yourself, you are slipping your house in the very center and there are heavy weapon attacking to you and then burning side of your houses, how you're going to feel it. It is a horrible, and when it's happened first, first time that they attacked the military, they should have it from their camp to Tang Clan. And then of course, how start to burn down and then they shoot before no one run away. And then like second third, like five houses burned, so everybody in the CD came out the day, they bring water, whatever. Of course, there is no other things just the people themselves they come and then try to stop the fire. And then that time, a pastor who also helping the youth and their military come in the v&a who are trying to stop in the mud of the water, military come and shoot them. And then in in that situation, our pastor passed away. And then how brutal they are, they kill our pastor. Not only that, they cut his finger. Because he wear gold because he's married. So because of his you know, in when we married, we have Mary way has changed the rain he's wearing on that one. And they cut the test to take his rain. And then even never say off any word of sorry, to the, to the family that they have killed. And then they don't stop they continuously shoot and burning down to one by one house by house. And after the people all start to freaked afraid and frightened and threatening because they never thought that they will really do to them in that way. So no choice. They have to run their house they have to leave. And then yeah, even yourself. Just imagine that just to make it clear, let's say you are a single boy. And then let's say you are a student, and then you study or you stay in a boarding house in one year. And then after after one year you want to go back to home. And then when you take out your staff, your materials, your belongings, in that little room that you leave for one year, I can I can tell you that it would be at least three or four suitcase or a backpack full of your material. Just single just yourself in a little room for one year. But still you will be having so much of belonging. Just imagine for family living in household, a family living in that house for many, many years or decades. And how many material they can have but they have no choice they have to let them all only they can do this that one two o'clock that they have to wear and then some of important paper or money or someone maybe even they have jewelry but I don't think that they can bring their blankets their bed or whatever their belongings etc and yet House, but everything just become harsh and utter today the military never say sorry or make never statement that they have done something wrong. But still they blame me to the people of Canada. But they are the one actually who suffer and who run away from the house, they have built your own house for how many years they have struggle to make one house for the house, I mean, their butts, just one night or just a minute, everything burned down and become anxious. Not only that, they are trippin. And they are you know, even killing them. And then they need to run away from the house. Even they need to leave their land. While they leave for how many decades how many years, they have been but still the military complaint or blaming to them not to his own troop, his own brutal military, but it's the blaming to the people of Tanka. Just imagine. So now the people often clown, entire of the city, I mean entire town, do become empty now. And they all left and then running after to their religions. I mean, sorry, they're related home or house or running to the border and become homeless. And then they need to start their life from zero. And now most of them has, I mean, most of them become homeless, because the military burned down their houses in Canada, and now most of them are in Boulder of India. And then, of course, and lastly to say that they burned down all the house isn't finished now, when the parents have some a little of the assets that they planned for their kids to study. Now everything is good to the ash they can afford. So they they are stupid, they are children's cannot go to school. And they are living in the forest with a little toppling rubbing. And then they even know sure the what can happen tomorrow. Even they don't have nothing to do because they cannot work. So they have no income. So if someone comes in to give them food, then they will eat. Unless they don't get then they have to be there with hunger. That's only half now. This entire off one town winches date

Host  1:47:49

thank you for Yeah, that's just terrific. I don't know what to say. And it's it's it just it's just appalling that in the year when we're living that a military can destroy an entire civilian population. And not only is there so little support, but there's even so little awareness that that's happening outside. And that's why here we're trying to do the most we can to be able to get that information and news out to let people know what what has happened, what is happening, so that there's greater awareness. The last question I want to ask you is looking at the chin, ethnicities and all the diversity within the different chin, ethnic and linguistic and geographic groups. There's one group I have within chin I've heard about that I'm trying to understand better, this is the zone meet. I've heard and I don't quite understand what the zone we are doing, what their their objective is. On one hand, I've heard that they're trying to push for their own autonomous region. On the other hand, I've also heard that they may be supportive of the Tomodachi that they're fighting other chin groups, I don't really have a clear understanding. So I'm wondering if you can tell me a bit more about the zoomy chin and what's been happening with that

Simon  1:49:14

okay. Yeah. So, in ancient stage two, as we have said, we have many, many languages also tripe across Chin State, but according to according to the government, we are divided into ly Township, non Township and then before we have to district, but now it's at that so we become like for this take. So, in there, like zoomy is under and they are in Didim Township. So, before going Going back to your equation are also it's happened that last year in so me I mean that as a miss zoomies are under this did internship so what we have is that military rape a young lady who just gave birth after he gave she gave birth like a month in front of her own husband military comes and caption rabid how crucial the artists imagine that just imagine yourself you're your husband your wife are raping in front of you how you're gonna feel it but still military would never say never condemned to his people but still blame me to the people of us that people have changed the people of Myanmar that's what military is so okay, this is something that I just would like to point out again how they do to us they they kill us they torture us they rapists and they they wanted to wipe out our chimp people but we will not stop we can fight for our own land and for our people. But then sadly in though me as I said it's all me there is a demon we call twins and township so two hours closely and then what you say is they are called Zara they are not so me they are Zara they are they believe that themselves they are protecting for zooming and they believe that they are the one who love zoom me and then in other way around to says that they wanted to create their own autonomous territory and then they want to live there but and they are not really majority they are minority but then to them they don't how do you call this their holy accomplish their mission vision is just to have like they are very much I will say they're selfish They only thing for themselves so to get for that whatever they have chance they are willing to take it so if it the thing is are they going to join with this sock and then maybe they will get what they want because of this military can give them this what they believe so they're just really attacking to their own people. In zombie we have Zara there is Zara as the one that you say and the one is we console and PDF and other ones we call I forgot Wait let me check. The name is something called we'll call out people defense army PDA, they are all are coming together to under zoom me. So, but they are joining and then working closely with the two people in your chain we call it in chain as of this afternoon revolution happened in our chain we are planning at all chin people are working together to become more unite and they call CJ DC which is also called also known as a challenge join the fence committee and the joint defense committee is legging and working closely with CNS at the most of CDF and chinny chin state like they all call they all use mostly of most of the people use CDF which you mentioned land defense force. So for example how they call it Qin land Defense Force haka for tanta chin length, Defense Force Tantra so all they come together and form CJD, C, C, G, DC challenge joint defense for comedy, and then they all are together but except Zara the rich why the chin people come together and they say this Zara is not belonging to the attacking us. They are not same with our visions and missions. And they are who supporting to this suck, suck this military. They are like terrorists because they are supporting to this brutal military. So they announced it. Recently, CJ DC announced it announced that she Zara is a terrorist group. They are not belong to chain they are not present to zoom me. That's what they have said. And then lastly, I just would like to say that yeah. We are humans, no matter where we are. We still come together either we need to help to each other. And then I think the international community also have to aware of what's really happening in St. Myanmar. maybe in other way around to say that this is not something the international affair this is something internally affair, however, the wall has to see and they know that who this military are, they are terrorists, they are evil. So, we need to work out. So, if international help and work with us and then cooperate with the people of Myanmar and if we can wipe out from the face of Myanmar this military in the future, the Myanmar people will be joyful, peaceful and prosperity, even Myanmar people become a rich I mean, when I say rich doesn't really mean that the money I mean in health and everything we become very much in you know, healthy lifestyle, and I think the wall also one part of the world is become blooming, because we all are like flowers. So, but Myanmar is dying of a garden whereas all the flowers are die and drying the world have to understand accept and then have to pure of their love and your kindness to Myanmar people. So that once the Myanmar become blooming, then also the beauty of men not only for Myanmar, but for all for the goods for people of entire world. So, I would like to really, really emphasize that please hear out the voice of Myanmar, because we need international help cooperation, maybe not in the military or not in the not in the arm, I mean, not in the forces, but in also in sense of helping us through many ways that they we can do. For example, I have said a while ago, we need a lot of shelter across Myanmar chain state, we need food, because many of us are hunger in Myanmar, because military are using for that policy, because of that, we cannot get we can access enough food and medicines and health, most of us are dying just because we cannot able to reach out them. But just a simple of medicines are simple of this. Made it out just invent simple Alpha antibiotic. Pete most of people alive will be safe, but because of that lacking of transportation, the money, I mean medicines, people are dying. So to stop mortality, to stop the poverty to stop all this, we need international help. So we may you may help us in the food, or shelter or medicine. Not only that, the military are trying to oppress us in education because they will become educated. They cannot lead us they cannot rule us. But if we become uneducated, they're easily to divide us and rule us and then overthrow us. They can oppress us. So our new generation need education. So we need our school, our kid to go to the school, and they have right to study. So this all our you know, y'all can help us just one step of forward and listening us. And then if you do something for us, we really appreciate so yeah, thank you so much. And then yeah, thank you for having me today. That's all I would like to say for today.

Host  1:58:54

Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode in full. If you've gotten this far, then you've heard much of what this important guest has to say. And if you found their story of value, please consider taking a further step beyond just being a listener and become an active supporter. Any donation you provide is now being sent to Myanmar to help those being impacted by the current crisis. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form currency your transfer method. Your donation will go to support a wide range of humanitarian missions, aiding those local communities who need it most. Donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movement CDM families of deceased victims, internally displaced person IDP camps, food for impoverished communities military defection campaigns, undercover journalists, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies COVID relief and much more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs. You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution for a specific activity or project you would like to support, perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode, all of this humanitarian aid work is carried out by our nonprofit mission that are Burma. Any donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fund. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website better burma.org That's b e t t e r, B urma.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause, and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account you can also visit either the Insight Myanmar or better Burma websites for specific links to those respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org If you'd like to give it another way, please contact us thank you so much for your kind consideration and support

2:01:12

Aima pa dog a Medusa Sasa Shalimar Shalimar Shalimar no know aim aim aim week name is Noah trying to design the basic data weekend bye Bye the weekend to get the weekend fly full freedom that is so much below