Transcript: Episode #120: Htein Lin: Pursuing Art and Liberation
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Htein Lin, which was released on August 31, 2022. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
“I studied law in Yangon University. I am very lucky there was an art association at university; there was regular art exhibition, which [was] in the public space, and also there was a Water Festival holiday and our university had a performance group [there]. I became one of the comedians of the enyeint group, a [traditional Burmese] theatre group [with] one dancer, musicians, two comedians.”
“So, then after 1988, also participated in demonstrations, and then in my town, organized with the local people to get a democratic group leading for the region.” “I became one of the leaders in my region; so, after military coup in September 18th, after that, most of the students who had demonstrated joined the revolution, moving to the Thai-Burma border, joined a group like now. So, I went to the Indian border.”
“[It was] the Indian side of the Indian border, more like a refugee camp. We were hoping to get help from the Indian government like military training, et cetera, for our revolution. We haven’t gotten it.”
“It was a recon camp, but in that camp I met one of the artists called Sitt Nyein Aye. He was a very successful commercial artist from Mandalay, who also joined the revolution.”
“He shared most of his knowledge, and also taught us about basic drawing. The problem was we didn’t have a lot of supplies, just two sheets of old paper, just drawing only pencil; so we were not able to practice with watercolor or with a brush, only pencil drawing. But it was more important the discussion with him. Now, I understood philosophy of art.”
“After many nights and many hours of discussion, questions [the answers] to which I really wanted to know, I realized and deeply understood that to be an artist, I have to find my own way and ideas and contemplate [as an] artist. Also, he made me free, not dependent upon the [art] that he did, that he taught us. So, more free. After that, he said you just create your own drawing, your own.
“And then I started drawing a lot of on the side, drawing illustrations for our propaganda.”
“So sorry, it was so sorry that he could not even show any picture [by] Van Gogh or Picasso’s paintings. For example, our discussion about cubism, at that time I wanted to know everything and asked many questions – he was so kind – how cubism goes for Van Gogh’s painting, I just followed deep yellow and I just followed imagination. [Later] I went back to Yangon [and] I could see a photo of Vincent Van Gogh’s painting, ‘Sunflowers,’ in 2006. And then Vicki, my wife dropped me off in front of [name European venue] Gallery. There were lots of paintings by Van Gogh; I just went.
“It was so, so nice; I was just standing in front of the ‘Sunflowers’ Van Gogh painting. At that time, all kinds of his work, it just talked to me, coming to my brain, coming back to my memory. “Oh that’s why those guys were talking like that.” It was so nice. You have never heard about these kinds of things; you have never seen it, but you have created from imagination in the past. And then it became real. So, so nice.”
“The part of my life that is because of this revolution - I didn’t want it; I didn’t want to be a revolutionary, but the paintings – just happen to our lives, our lives in university. I didn’t have a choice. I just jumped in and decided to fight, but if you really want to be democratic, you need to deeply understand what is a democracy. But actually, we were trying for revolution.
“After two years, I went to India-China border and then I joined the actual revolution; I went there to the Kachin state. It was the Kachin state; so, I became a member of ABSDF, the revolutionary group called the All-Burma Students’ Democratic Front. But it was actually guerilla warfare... Many of my friends died in the jungle.”
“Also we had a real problem. We had arms, and so, with these arms, these weapons, [people] became mad. One of the group accused us that we were government spies. There was torture and really [? traumatic]. That was a big motivation to write a piece, the thesis of my works as a student. We finally escaped from the jungle. So, after that, I really decided to keep away from politics.”
“Actually, these arms are so dangerous, but when we were young, we didn’t understand. We thought only that we must try for democracy. We did not understand what democracy was.”
“So, after that I was back to my university to finish my degree, and after that I decided to make my practice my life [recording of monastic chanting in background].”
[regarding the torture in Pajao] “It was really horrendous.”
“I was really surprised that that kind of idea of revolution has come back to our situation; all these people have made the decision. But also, there was military coup and key demonstrators. This enabled back to that idea. But, you know, situations are so complicated. For me, from my case and seeing the young revolution group going, I was really concerned about that. I don’t want two mistakes in our history.”
“I was seriously tortured, various abuse; there was electric shock. We had a generator, and they didn’t know how to control the voltage, the power, and they just did the electric shock. One of my friends immediately died. That kind of shock. So, “Oh my God, the voltage is so high; that’s why immediate death.” So, thinking they need to reduce the voltage. And then they found the old telephones; they wrapped the wire [around] your hands, wire of the telephones. You got it? Then they take the wire and put it in my mouth. Or taste with plaster. That was so... electric shock. And then I would scream, or even when I closed my eyes, I could not sleep. I could only see all these lights of the targets. So, [? pleasure], this came from the telephones. Oh my God. That’s why I did one of the paintings called ‘Torture Phone.’ They are supposed to be for communication, not supposed to be torturing each other.”
“At night when they would get drunk... whenever they would smash my chin, that was the trigger that I was supposed to sing a song, and then when they would smash another chin that meant stop. So, that kind of abuse. I did another painting. I also wrote this kind of memory in a public book.”
“At that time, they were mad; actually, they should have known we are not spies. We are students. But this is power – the power of hatred. Hatred. Also people just became mad, joined some things that were frightening to me – torture, abusing like that. “
“I wish we could survive with internal study and art; so, creating, story-telling, sharing with each other, stories in the culture. That’s why I wrote a book; it’s about that. The students of the younger generation have to learn that if you have these kinds of big decisions, such as revolution, you have to deeply understand. You have to deeply mature. We have a [? Inaudible]. This is a kind of danger for our organization. The debate is not ready for that type of situation. Always, always talking about this, the word is called shunyata [ed. means ‘emptiness,’ Skt.], always energy, energy. So, if somebody has a different idea, a creative idea, that would [be seen as] this is dangerous, we need to stop. So, this is the kind of reserve that feeds all of these revolutions and organizations, [without that] they would disappear.”
“My artist’s life, a lot of memories. I just jumped into the art scene in Yangon. Just came into an artist – shocking [chuckles]. At that time, I met a lot of artists, and they would say, “Oh, welcome to the art scene.”
[30 min.]
“And sharing knowledge. But also alcohol and drugs; so, that’s why fighting each other. So, make a choice. But the thing is pariyatti [usu. refers to learning through reading, study, and theory of Buddhism, esp. as pertaining to doctrine, rather than through applied direct practice or realization, ed.] really young and looking for something really new. Looking internally, also not a lot of art support in Myanmar. One of the groups, artists’ group called [? inaudible name of venue, ? Inle] Art Gallery, who were artists. We had a kind of Sunday, every Sunday we met at the art gallery. The owner of that gallery who had [? inaudible about some embassy and he calling various artists]; so, every weekend we share with each other, both our art and our knowledge. It was not a lot, but actually, it was very important for me.
“And then since last year, so strong, so tense, need an application for art exhibitions, for formation of art association. I don’t know why be so tough but they were, since our vote, I think. Our Ministry of Culture came as a group to our exhibition before its opening, treated us very nicely, gave us nice breakfast, kind things, so important. So, after that, I had to explain each painting. What, which means what, who can explain this? And now, most of my things after that time are abstract paintings. Expression. I don’t know why their minds are capable of seeing the lady. “Oh, it’s a clock.” They don’t like; they don’t understand. “You can put this painting down!” And “Facing the wall!” This kind of thing. So, very difficult to survive, and also to create something new.
“But the thing is that these revolutions, ’88 Revolution, are really good strengths to push artists’ society, artists like me, to turning points, to create different things. At weekend study group, one of the days, we discussed about contemporary performance art. At that time, I worked as an artist and also had to work as [? actor]. I got married and had a young daughter. So, one of my mentor at the art committee, an actor and artist, an actor with asylum, who also got released from prison, who became a film maker, and he said, ‘Oh, please come and work.’ He said, ‘Call me film maker, because I just did this painting. I didn’t think I can make any money for you. Now that I’ve got regular income, please come work.’ So, that’s why some of my days are working in film making process.
“So, I also work as the film maker and actor. The study group people, they also knew me, that I worked on the stage. At that time, the understanding was that the performance art makes present, in one’s own body, embodies as art, artwork. So, all these are performance art using the body. So, if that is very strange, I think, “Htein Lin, you should test it.” You know, how you, because you don’t know if you are not scared to be doing some painting, something in front of the public. That’s why this kind of artform, you should make it. This is a very good way to avoid this horrible censorship. That’s why the history of our performing art became a study of underground art.
“When my first performance happened, it was also to get out of the gallery, on the street, create something, and then come back to the gallery – so fresh. When we did that performance, we just invited selected guests who are artists, like that. Most of the events, we did them the day of the art exhibition, at closing. Closed party; get in the gallery, close the door. Also, there were no photo cameras [allowed]. We have a staff; that’s why we got a few photos of that day. And then, there was an art magazine, called [? inaudible]. One of the artists’ with that magazine came to me and interviewed me about performing art, and then there were also some of the artists who studied installations. So, that time, we tested these kinds of art forms, performance and installation art; that was 1996, 1997. And then, in 1998, I got arrested.
[40 min.]
“One of the midnight, maybe first of May, Tatmadaw group and they came to my house and took me to interrogation camp [? MI-6]. They had found, the police found a letter that was from my old friend from [? Chengdu] who wrote. They discovered it. It was related to doing the demonstrations in two cities, and to students in Yangon, and finally, it’s about the ten-year anniversary of the 1988 uprising. In the letter, also he mentioned my name; he said, ‘You know, Htein Lin, our friend became a quite well-known artist in anger. He invokes with the arts a demonstration that is more powerful.’ So, that is the reason intelligence came to my house. So, I explained, “Look, I am really focusing creatively, and I am not working out of anger; I am an artist. Actually, in my mind, I am really thinking to create something if I have the time. So, I have no idea to do these kinds of demonstrations, honestly.”
“But the thing is, many of the questions are about: ‘Do I trust them?’ and ‘Do I support the national compassion?’ ‘What are you seriously doing to get the constitution?’ So, I said, ‘You are totally wrong; you don’t need that kind of [? inaudible]. If you want to do the national compassion, then you have to release all these political prisoners, including Aung San Suu Kyi, and you have to discuss together about the constitution, you know?’ But I have to try what I thought. So, this is what I believe. But I said, I had nothing to do about that. But the thing is that they gave all these people about 24, 25 years for sentences. For me, it was a lower sentence, seven years. And then some of the group, ten years, about twenty years. And the higher one, is the guy who wrote the letter – he is a high school teacher, retired high school teacher with children - 42 years [? a hundred]. So that is the start of my prison experience.
“First, they sent me to Mandalay prison from Insein prison. I was after a few days in a few days in Insein. The reason why is that more people got arrested; that’s why. There was a special court trial in Mandalay, and then we got sent. So, all these political prisoners, about 200 at that time, all we political prisoners had to make a separate compound. We were not [? regular, maximum security] permanent prisoners. And all of us prisoners had to live so that we were about 500. But the accommodations were not enough for each of us to have a cell, not enough for all these political prisoners. Some [? had] to live alone under the cell, but some had to share with others’ cells, which were eight feet by nine feet in a square, concrete block. We had to share with others, too. [? Inaudible] Not allowed to live alone. And the whole [? 40 minute of] 23 hours, unlock the door, out, and took sunshine [? shower, shit], and back to the cell. So, most of the time you are living in the cell.
“And further, for food, the food so horrible, only [? lentils, lettuce, type of rice] for lunch and also vegetable soup and vegetables [? what are cuts, watercress] and put in whole soup. We had one piece of fish for the whole week. Otherwise, that’s all; we had only rice and soup. So, that’s why all the family members have to support some extra food, dry fish or [? two more food dish examples]. Without that extra support, would not have been able to survive. That’s why all these family members of prisoner are really important for the society.
“And then, the family visit is every two weeks. After two weeks, you can have. And other things. My family, and my wife, my past wife, she was from Yangon and my [? family, dad, dairy] is also from Yangon; so, they did not need to come to see me. That’s why about once a month; sometimes, even once a month she would not be able to come. But it is good the other prisoners are sharing their food. But at the family meetings that are [? inaudible], we could not see each other; there were two [layers of] chicken wire between us and at a distance. And only able to talk about family matters, no kinds of other political information from outside. One of the prison guards took notes about what we said; so, when I sit at the table and a guy next to me with the notebook, I also see another guy sitting next to my wife, and he writes what she says. He took notes.
[about 50 min.]
“You know, the space was so small and the prison experience was so bad – well, not everything is bad; I was able to meet some very interesting persons, who were politicians, in prison ten years, eight years. But we were really smart. And also, you did not see any depression. You didn’t see any depression in their faces. After discussion, you would know that we had very strong spirit, and political beliefs, and [beliefs] for society. We would strongly make the decision to take responsibility for society; that one I really, even just seeing like that. Also, as an artist, I also need to take responsibility to create art.
“So that’s why, not only painting but poetry readings and story-telling for political prisoners, political beliefs are very important to survive where you are, but it is not enough to survive. That’s why the arts are so important to survive in that kind of situation. That’s why at night when we would just sit and clear the day and chat with each other and sing songs and reading poems and story-telling; it’s a kind of end-of-day, and then also I do every day as artist, start thinking to create art. Just because I can’t do anything when they put me into the prison, I didn’t want to stop my art [? inaudible]. Also, persons [? take the view of hope] that told me, okay, my friend just had a solo show; these are the artists who have exhibitions. So, that kind, they are all my friends; on both sides, I continued to paint and doing these new kinds of art forms.
“So, I didn’t want to stop. And so I asked how to. Someone brought me some paper which [? I left and hope]. And also I needed to deal with the prison guards who were able to smuggle to get in [? ink] to the prison. So, I needed to make a very good friendship with the nice guy who was the prison warden. So, finally one of the guys, kindly, put some [? crayon] a chip in his boot when we were... But the thing is, I got a call one day, which I had to draw on it. So, I found an old uniform, a prison uniform. All our uniforms were white, but now they have turned to deep blue; so, I would have never gotten to paint on it – but at that time, we had prison uniforms that were white and pure cotton, made in prison. So, I collected some old prison uniforms, like a shirt, a piece of cloth from the shirt or some from longyis. And then, you know, these kinds of shows, longyi cotton is quite difficult to draw on or paint without stretching with a frame – but of course, you are not able to make a frame in the prison cell. Also, there was an old brush. And so, that’s why I had to be looking for other ways of how to paint. That’s why I found a [? serving of prison powder]; so, I took it after I [? to my corner].
“So, [? cellophane], piece of glass, old fishing net, whatever I found, just tasking, using how to paint with usually whatever I found. Of course, there were many things happening in prison at this time. I also had to paint the subject, what I was seeing, as a document. I understand this as important. Somebody has to take responsibility to see and make a record of what I saw in prison. This is, that’s my job.
[1 hour]
“I was really surprised after two or three painting – I had to look back. I was so free. So, I was in prison; I am not, I could not do any exhibition. I could not display any painting from here, because I gave a, we had an agreement. I gave a promise to not make any show until my release from prison. So, that’s why I could not make any exhibition of art and there was actually not an art audience, not enough audience. My cellmates and the prison guards. Also, no [? censorship]; so, I did not need to worry about somebody getting arrested because of my painting. Because I’m already [arrested] I don’t need to worry about that. It made me totally free.
“And when I saw that, I just kept on painting; I was really amazed. God, so nice! I had never had that with my painting. So, and then also I relaxed. I got a short “ah.” So, that’s the freedom which I found in solitary confinement. With that freedom, the way of my imprisonment changed. Freedom inside. Inner freedom is so important. So then I realized this is an opportunity to be, being in prison, to create something that really speaks new words. So, that’s why [during] this stay a lot of huge energy to continue to create, whatever problem which I faced. In prison, I needed to face it, but I couldn’t stop until then, after a few paintings were done.
“We discussed it today with the prison guards to make about two-hour shows, an exhibition. The thing is, at that time, the prison guards they came and unlocked the one door, to shower, and back to they sent prisoners in the cell, lock the other cells. So, we not able to do a gathering all together. That’s what we all have to deal with, these guys, you know? Today, give them very nice coffee and cigarettes and food. After that, we got a chance. So, we had two hours, and then somebody, one of the prison guards stands outside of our paintings. We had about fifteen cells for one day, so about 45 to 50 people. And they knocked on the door. And at one of the cells I am preparing to take everything out from the cell; that’s what took place, and then put up paintings, some paintings on the wall with toothpaste – stick on it. And then within a few minutes, there is a nice exhibition place.
“Paintings are hanging [choked up] on the prison walls in the cells. But the armed guards are not coming directly; I mean they have showered, shined shoes, their best uniforms, and very smart, and attending to my secret art exhibition. It was so nice; I now have my exhibition [? brought first people] art museum, but I will never forget this little, short, secret exhibition in the prison cells. You know, because these guys are so intelligent, full of dignity, attending to an art exhibition, even though they have never seen an art exhibition in their lives. But they are students, activists, politicians, doctors, school teachers, and full of dignity. So they were all our [? citizens]. We were very clear they see so proud of ourselves. They see our situation; we have an art exhibition. We were so civilized and proud. We forget about the prison. We are dignified; we are so proud; we are safe with that. We have exhibition. So, that was so, so nice. And all of that gives energy to create the whole life.
“So, if one is depressed, bored, have wondering what to do, if lazy, just remember that kind of special creation and then give us within a very few minutes, it gives us a lot of energy. Very fresh!”
[on motivation for vipassana practice]
“Actually, it was in Mandalay prison. Because, you know, we had many misunderstandings. Arguing with the prison guards, who when they found my paintings [? confiscated], my soap sculpture, and they took [? inaudible]. And then we demanded legally to sign papers to get the right to get books, any kind of books, not only Buddhism, other books, [too], to have our own library inside. Also, the right to have our studies, English class, music class, [type]. And better food and rice, and the right to create art. But thing is, the situation was so... well, the outside political situation was so tense at that time. A son of my colleague, he served [his time]; they were serving, but at that day, they had to release him. Of course, that day, we said, “Oh hello; bye bye;” they were at the prison gate. But then the authorities came to the prison gate, and they extend the sentence and they put him back into prison. So, we were also angry about that. So, then also, we demanded his release.
[about 1:10]
“So, there were many reasons, but in the end, in the year 2000, they beat us and sent us to another prison and locked up me and Maung Thin Tit, a poet, who has now become Minister of Defense at NUG. He is a poet; also, he is a very good poet. So he and me, we were sent to Myingyan prison and they locked us into the death row; it was so dark with the other death criminal prisoners. Only ten minutes a day to be outside, have a shower and that. So, in 24 hours in the death row that kind of solitary confinement a day. And then we complained a lot and just argued to stop, and that we are not supposed to be put in here; we are not criminals, anything, but it doesn’t work, because this petition from the head of the prison department, and also from the prison, the prison officer; it doesn’t do anything about [? inaudible] to complain.
“And then also, we had been assured that this would take long. So then, we thought, ‘Oh, okay. We have plenty of time and no complication with other employees.’ So, ‘Okay,’ I am thinking, ‘We should do some meditation that we have never done in our lives.’ Of course, one of our old [? partner] artists, [? inaudible name of person], also does some kind of meditation, which I had heard about his paintings; I saw some drawing with a number of arms were put in the painting. So, one of the art critics asked him, ‘Why put [those] in the paintings?’ He said, “Oh, I don’t know; this is what came to my mind when I meditate.’ That was quite interesting for me, you know, meditation. So, that’s when I started meditating, in solitary confinement.
“But I have a very good friend who when he found out, he said, “Oh, U Htein Lin, you should not do that kind of concentration; you need to get a guide book and learn why you have to meditate, and you need to be clear.’ So after that, we tried to get some meditation guide books, which I read. I followed these instructions and the guided meditation. And then I meditated. So this be [became, was] so important.
“And then I became a serious meditator. So, we have many reasons for meditation, most of them were how people get in the peaceful mind. And the pleasure to be at peace. That is the purpose of meditation. So, after I read it, and also what is the real purpose of meditation, which the Buddha pointed out to us as a guide, and very simple if you ask me to explain, if I have in only one sentence, I would have to answer: ‘to purify the mind.’
“And this purification is so important. Any kind of anger, hatred, anything arise in your mind, you get irritated, and it makes you mad, actually. So, if any impurity enters your mind, and not only to purify, [cultivate] your pāramī; it’s hard, all your pāramī. That’s why, to get to purification, so to proper keep practicing. So, about ten hours a day, I was meditating. It was not actually a very good place to meditate, on death row, with that kind of criminals in prison. And they were, they realized when we started to meditate, and then they [began to] make a lot of noise and they disturbed us at first. But day-by-day, we kept meditating. Our meditating was also progressing a lot, and they stopped harassing to us.
“After about six months meditation, our death row was so peaceful! They also asked me about why I was meditating. They asked me how to meditate. So, ‘Look,’ I said, ‘Okay, I have a guide book.’ Another guy said he could not read; he said, ‘I could not read [that].’ So, I said, ‘Oh, okay; do you want to learn how to read? I can teach you.’ And then, I was also part-time as a teacher for about two guys who were illiterate. So, after that, I also gave a guide book. So, at that time in the prison, death row was a place that was so nice. Peaceful.
“And then it became a friend. But at that time my main family visits were cut for a few years; so, no family visited, and no conversation with the other political prisoners. But it was not worrying about food, because according to prison manual, all of these interned, internment prisoners, who got the death penalty, got rice and extra meat. So, for us, just lentil soup, lentil soup, with the [? awful, often] rice, but they had one piece of meat every day. At the dinner, they have an egg or meat.
“So, these guys are feeding me. These guys, they are giving an egg or fish. And then, the most important thing, they gave their longyis to paint.”
[about 1:20]
“They said, ‘We are death penalty prisoners. I got a right to.’ Because normally, every prisoner has one uniform after six months, every six months. Prison guards, they would say ‘Where’s your uniform? Why you still in this one?’ They would say, ‘Oh, I am really depressed. I couldn’t die, because the death penalty I am crazy.’ So, I tear all these, my uniforms and threw away; so, then the prison officers would bring new uniforms because of the death penalty prisoners. They are really bad, some people sometimes.
“So, they gave me their uniforms. Some of the large paintings at that time, which during my time I painted, these longyis were given to me by these death penalty prisoners who were criminals. But that was most of them; also there were other cases, they had rebelled and then they came [to death row]. And also one or two guys who were great criminals - murder. They had a lot of crime in their lives. But I asked them, ‘Now, you are very nice; you give me your longyi?’ ‘Yeah, I mean, we, I never did kind things, gave helping to people; I did lots of crime. But this is nice. Now, I have a good feeling that I could help you, an artist, and not without any crime.’ So, that’s a lot of faith. At that time, if you are seeing something, they do it quite large. So, that is a gift from the death penalty prisoners.”
“Yes, we have many techniques and many traditions of meditation in our country. Yeah, but I had a kind of guide book of mostly Sayadaw U Jotika. He was publishing at that time [? In New York]. He was educated by Mahāsī. His background is interesting. He was Muslim. He became his own way. He read a lot of books and was looking for his own way. And he became a monk; so, very mature, his meditation practice. After that, he published some books. Most of his books, which I admire, they teach us how to apply your meditation practice in your life. You know, in the prison cell where I was, it is good to concentrate the mind and [enter] a kind of deep samādhi. But the way of the path, the path is to liberate yourself.
“And my understanding was [that] we need a good teacher, and a good practice of mettā. But you know, in prison, there was no teacher; so, I just practiced on my own. A lot of difficulty, but it gives back, because of this at a very good time. It, this kind of practice, the experience it changed all of my life. So, I decided not to drink, not smoking and drinking, [? or war]. So, when I am out, released from prison, I do not drink. And people say, ‘Oh, why are you so very straight?’ So, it changed [? tamed] me. After my release from prison, I also became for a very short time, a monk, [? staying on the street] and practicing, and I also went to other meditation centers, stay for a month, then a few days and back to work, and back to different meditation centers.
“After that I met Vicki, my wife, and so we married in Yangon. So, I moved to the U.K. and lived in London, which also is a nice city, and a great opportunity to see and touch art work. But the thing is that, after a few months of seeing - of course, we have a Burmese community in London, and fortunately, we connect with each other and speak in Burmese and eat Burmese food, but this is not enough to just, in my mind, being in the west and immediately move from my country to this – so, I asked ‘Are there any meditation centers which I could join?’
“After that, we found Dhammā Dīpa; it’s this great meditation center at Herefordshire, and I run by Guru-ji as Goenka-ji, who is an Indian guru from Mumbai, but he was born in Myanmar. He became a businessman in Myanmar and then he became a teacher after he joined a 10-day meditation course run by Sayadaw-ji U Ba Khin. He was formerly a manager of accounting, but then he left. So, that kind of center, which I joined in 2008, it was the peaceful place, and my favorite place in England.
“So, for me, its standards [? family, familiar] the grounds, it is so nice; all the people and all the students, we learned together, about these meditation techniques, together. What of which I am feeling, what is the name of the major school in the Harry Potter story, in the book? Hogwarts. In the story, there was a school called Hogwarts; it was a kind of magic school. A magic school. It’s sorcery, but if you go to King’s Cross and you take the train from platform 9 ¾ - that was the platform number - and they went to this magic school and all these kinds of... Harry Potter and the other magic world. In the movie, there were a number of normal people, but the normal people, they didn’t see; they didn’t know there is another magic world.”
[about 1:31 min.]
“So, for me, when I joined the meditation center, because in England there is a group of people coming together like that, but after that, the meditation center which I joined, and I faced all of these things. Germany, Spain, I had thought I was a meditation... a Burmese speaker, but actually all these people are also practicing in their daily lives, and they are applying, but I hadn’t see that [before], you know? And so this is the only meditation center which I joined; I see that after that, I have a connection with these little societies which are practicing the same technique with me; that’s what I mean. But normal people, I mean, we are also normal people. But actually, there is a meditator in Myanmar, U Ba Khin in daily Burma, just life. So, that what I mean. Got it?”
[on meditation + art & creativity + movement for democracy, human rights, activism]
“For me, it is a balance with these three things in my daily life. In meditation practice, our Guru-ji, we call the type of meditation, we call it vipassanā; it’s the type of meditation to purify our minds. We call it The Art of Living. So, that kind of, so, it’s just a kind of art, how you have to live in the present, without reifying anything, without anything that came to your life rejecting or following. You just keep your mind in the present, equanimity, without rejecting or reacting is the way we like. Sometimes, when I... this is because I have much performance and exhibition practice in my artist’s life. I am mature now, and many happenings of the performance pieces. My feeling is very difficult to explain, but I try to explain what I thought.
“I did, for example, a performance piece; I did nothing. I just wore the monk’s robe. I have a monk’s robe. So, I know that the monk wearing his monk robe, when he comes outside – because when he is inside he can wear quite pleasantly, but when you go outside, you have to formally cover your body - there’s specially a way that you have to wear it. That process, I know that. So, I followed it to make my performance art. Then in another performance, I was a fly. I was a prisoner and the fly escaped to me and distracted me, and I came to it and I tried to make it fly away, but actually, it was no fly. Nothing had come to me. But I was edgy; sometimes, just got fidgety, very agitated. That’s something about performance. After that, I announced, “Okay, so I made a fly, and how can protect me with the fly? It just came to me.” I said, “I am finished and I am just living in my daily life.”
“So, after that, they came to me and said, “Okay, Htein Lin, can you do the performance piece?” So then, I would take out the sharp [object] or tying with my hand in the robe, or I got rope or tape. So, after that, I said, “This is a tradition.” So, sometimes they were short, or sometimes they were traditional performances which I had done, which I just did.
“One of the performances I did was a very traditional performance from one o’clock to five o’clock. Five hours perform the piece, [? Stand Scape]; it was called [? Stand Scape]. I didn’t move anything, just standing, in the middle of the bamboo mat. I step on it. Just standing in a basket, and there were dandelions surrounding it. But actually, I didn’t do anything; I just stood still.
“So, what is the difference between what we call ‘this is art’ and ‘this is not art?’ I question it again and again in my performing. So, I do something and then I call it art: “This is my performing art.” And then I am just living; now, I am talking with you. So, what is the difference? Of course, I know, in my performance art I am talking with the people. So sometimes, in some of my performances, I have a chair in front of an audience I invite, and sit, and we have a conversation. Some of my guests just ask many questions, difficult to answer. So, in answering, I call it: ‘This is art.’ And then after that, also I am talking with other people. So, what is the difference?
“I am thinking these kinds of things. Ah [sighs]. For me, so in your daily life, in my daily life - I was living in communities with community, and people, and my family members – when you communicate, okay, when I communicate to you, at this present, without anger, without hatred, and also with being kind, and love, so sharing this kindness, loving-kindness, this is a piece of art. Actually. So, it’s that kind of moment. A piece of art. So, when you are purifying your mind, without these kinds of things, when you are getting peace, that is also, my [? stance, experience] is a piece of art. So, that’s why Art of Living is the teaching from my meditation teacher. I try to be... it helps me a lot to think about it as kind of art in peace.
[just after 1:40]
“So, that’s why if you are living in the present without reacting, without anger, and share in anything negative, sharing with loving-kindness and compassion, this I think to try to be in you, and you become a very beautiful piece of art. Because our daily life has gotten so crowded. I look around everywhere, people need tranquility, and they need to calm down. So, if you could do that in your daily life, by just being peace art, you don’t need to do something different; you. Because the artists are always suffering to do something edgy, to be creative, something new and critique-able and bright. So, this is the challenge of the artists’ community, to do that. So, if you are trying to do that, trying to, you know, getting peace and loving-kindness, with harmony with others, you are all the time engaged in artwork for the society. So, of course, I need to create paintings to sell. I paint; I need to create some installation pieces. But in daily life, also to try to be, to live in peace with the harmony with the society; that is also very important for me. It is kind of creating and tradition and performance piece – or art. Not only one [? inaudible] per year. I try to be, I am trying, but some of my students are, ‘This is a crazy idea. Impossible. Crap.’ You know? But, hey, if you believe in it, you could try. It’s worth it in these traditional, these kinds of traditional performances. To be art work. Ourselves. You know? To be a piece of art work ourselves.”
[on art of current Burma revolution]
“I mean, actually, it was really nice. We were in the street; we were organizers of art in the street, and the artists’ community, artists or whatever [whoever], we have a platform. So, art materials and everyone can join. So, that kind of moment. And then also, of course, I went out and joined with the various directions with the groups who were demonstrators.
“So, I have seen some of the posters, T-shirts, and they were so creative. They were so creative; so, I am learning a lot. That’s why everyday I am following with them, to see the way they create it. Actually also, music art. The music was so amazing, and also performance pieces.”
[on particular stand-out works of art this year]
“Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, graffiti, really nice, very conceptual. Some of that. Doing it, [? conversation come]; I saw it. And also, one of the performance artists, [? name], and so I wondered how she came to artistry. She had a kind of little bit of sprout in the seeds. We call it [? inaudible] and you put it into the soil, but there’s a little, little root for each plant. So, and then [tone of delight] she brought pockets full of, many pockets, little pockets full of these sprouted seeds. And there was a tarpaulin sheet on the street, and she poured all of these sprouted seeds onto the sheet. And there is a little root. A little root, and then she said, [? Burmese expression]; that means, ‘pick on the root.’ And this is a traditional performance and everybody could join in. So, all the audience are just [? [long, inaudible description of engaged participants] picked up a double sheet as a group, each person had a focus and took on the root of the plant. So, that was really nice. A very powerful street performance. A female artist, [? name]. I really liked it.
[on repeating cycles of history or not]
“You know, we are in a war; so, everyday there have been gunshots and men down. And protests in cities and small towns. Landmines. You know, war actually. And now, there is fighting. For the democratic society.”
[about 1:50]
“It’s quite sad. The sound is so great. So, together [for] democratic society, we have war. Oh my God, this is the kind of situation now we are in. Actually, where is our political gain? How we entered this kind of [thing] happen? Because we have also many young groups, and with their hands. And then, this kind of real brutal stupidity with the military. I don’t see any going back to put it right way, to get democratic society.
“So, it sounds like it is hopeless. But the thing is that this is not the first time I am feeling hopeless. We were also like that after 1988, and the feeling the same after the military coup. And [? Not] very different, lots of pressure, and putting thousands of people into prison, including me. We were also hopeless. I grew up in 1988, [born in] 1966, after Ne Win’s military coup in 1962. So, I was [generation of] 66. When I joined an already [? inaudible adjective] government, I had never seen an elected, democratic government in my life. My whole life, I grew up under these military generals. And I learned how to become an artist and how to love and how to try to communicate with each other. And also internationally tried to communicate and try to be part of global society, you know? So, now we are back again.
“The thing is that, if you feel depressed and [? Inaudible, despair], can be hopeless, but it isn’t. It is just Hell; it’s Hell. It doesn’t hurt, you know? So, that’s why we have to, you know, lift and try to do that which is the best you could do. So, it’s the same. Being in charge and being in prison. Because it’s the politicians who are that. It’s very good, because that [one] day I thought, before I was in prison, they are wasting their time. When I was there, when I saw the police gave very long sentences to political prisoners, to two or three of them: “They are wasting their time.” In that discussion, one [? inaudible, person] made a very important point: “Htein Lin, we are, in our daily life, very important, because we are on duty, and we are 24-hour [per day] showing our disagreement with this military regime.” And that’s why we are not wasting our time. If we do nothing but sit in a prison cell, but we are keep telling and shouting that: ‘We do not agree with you. We want democracy.’ That’s why. So, PDF are very [? precious, pressure], and this is the only place, 24 hours and taking responsibility. Even if you are sleeping, we are talking, very loudly talking. We not agree; we do not agree. We want freedom. We want democracy. We want peace.
“So, that’s why our life is so precious. It’s good, meaningful. So, that kind of thing came to my life, changed it. This is the thing. So, we were living in a very difficult situation and looking for have the best you could do, and take any kind of responsibility for our society. Do what you can do and don’t blame anybody else. Do nothing, and [? inaudible] do it like that. Just take your responsibility. So, I am an artist now. I am getting old. Now, I cannot do any revolution, but I could think, so I just figure what is the best help for your society? So, this is, we as human beings have to do this. If you are a very good democratic society, if you are with a military government, or democracy, whatever, you have to face that this is your society. You are a part of that; we couldn’t reject [that fact, that this is how it is]. So, just let’s see how we could do that. To push, and let’s see how long we have to wait to be right.
[in response to “I hope it’s not much longer.”]
“Yeah, me too.”
“Thank you. Thank you.”