Transcript: Episode #78: Dave Leduc, a champion stands with the people

Following is the full transcript for the interview with Dave Leduc, which appeared on November 15, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.

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Host  00:15

All right you're listening to a special version of the Insight Myanmar podcast covering the military coup and the ensuing protest movement that has developed during this crisis. we're ramping up the production of not only podcast episodes, but also our blog and other social media platforms. So we invite you to check these out as well. All the other projects that had been in progress prior to February have since been paused and definitely to focus entirely on this emergency but for now, let's get into our show

David LeDuc  01:06

no mad you mad bro the champion the shop you're on the boost to get back on the feet the Kudal way no gov distance ball. Right bang bang the cool call to shoe tight tight lifestyle to Sondra kitchen stuck up to the kid a quitter never wins a whip never quits. Notch Mario Shaula mammy Kip FTP even know what it is at the end of the day

Host  02:41

Dave LaDuke I'm so pleased to welcome you here at insight Myanmar podcast. It is such a privilege to have you on. And thank you so much for taking time from your home in Turkey to be able to check in and talk to us about a very important and sensitive topic.

David LeDuc  02:57

Hey, Joe, thanks for having me. It's my pleasure.

Host  02:59

Yeah, so I want to get to the last nine months obviously and talk a bit about that. But before we get there, I want to take a bit of time into that so people who don't already know you and know what you've done, what you've accomplished, why your trajectory is so parallel to the Myanmar trajectory, let's learn about your background and how you got where you were. So to start us off, you developed an interest in martial arts and started doing trainings and different martial arts disciplines. Can you take us back to the beginning of what brought your first interest in martial arts and what type of traditions you started doing?

David LeDuc  03:40

Great Owl Great question. Basically I was I was born in Gatineau Canada and Quebec basically a French Province of Canada. And so my first language is French and we always like to always like to grapple into wrestle you know, my my friends and started started playing baseball but then quit did have like 17 to pursue full time like martial arts and I met my mentor who became a mentor see through plastic muscle should see for Pat basic started training in Sunda Chinese martial art which is like a stand up striking system and started loving it. We we did some amateur fights MMA fights and love that love the finding what I was always looking for more. I I saw one day my seafood told me seafood basically is a term in in Burmese we you know for teacher is a you know is saya Saya, but In Chinese it's a seafood so it's basically the equivalent of saya in Burmese language. What's the my sifu showed me some videos and have literally and I also shown you like Black Belt magazine article about Burmese boxing and I thought it was so interesting and so different than I always always was a black sheep in my life, I always wanted to different because of my upbringing and my childhood always. I was a bit. Yeah, like, I like to go against the grain against the current. And I thought like everybody's doing the same thing. Everybody's doing kickboxing or Muay Thai or MMA and I just knew that this something was pulling me towards this obscure and unknown, you know, mixed martial art of let's wait. And that happens that there was I don't know what year was, but Myanmar was either still under military dictatorship or was just beginning to leave, you know, with entering the like, quote, unquote, democracy with Sanssouci. So basically, it was very, very, I thought it was unattainable to go to Myanmar. I was, you know, just a little kid from from a town outside of Montreal, Canada, and title like, How the hell am I going to go there? I knew that I wanted to go one day. So basically started training, like I said, did some I knew the only thing I could do was to gain experience. And at the time, I the closest thing to my dream was going to the neighboring country of Thailand, because it was open as a Canadian, you can get a 30 day visa, really easy just set just show up at the airport to give you 30 days, unlike Myanmar was a no you have to do like, Labor's process to to enter and it was it didn't it was not as accessible, you know, still to this day, prior to the military coup, you know, when I was living in Myanmar you know, I barely see foreigners faces, it's quite rare compared to Phuket, for example. So I ended up going to Phuket had some friends there. So it was easy. Friends are always training there. And so I went there. And and yeah, it was there was a time in my life that was you know, partying and all these things, but I know nowadays now I don't, I don't do any of these things anymore. I don't drink I don't do but like at that time I like I just went and explored this, this this. The city ended up doing my first pro fight under Muay Thai rules, and I never didn't win in my life, I was only doing Sunday. The full contact form of G KUNDO. For those who don't know, G KUNDO. Is, is like a traditional form of Wing Chun. Modify Wing Chun by Bruce Lee. So that was my my background basically. And I ended up winning my first fight on the mothae rules against the South Korean guy. Well, we moved by, you know, 2030 pounds, I don't know. And that was okay, now I can fight but I knew that. Like, I need to raise my name in order to be called by the Burmese promoters like it's not by winning small stadium fights, you know, that you can get. You can get to the big leagues, right, because I knew that literally was my path. And so I don't know if I continue on that trend. But basically, I came,  I did a couple of trips back and forth, from Canada to Thailand. And basically ended up getting called after after a series of wins, which basically became my first catapult into some type of fame, I guess was, was identified in prison fight. So prison fighter. For those who don't know, they can look it up. But it was very controversial. It's ran by the correctional department of Thailand. And they offered the chance to inmates that are were previously fighters that did some bad decisions, maybe like they agreed and got them into selling stuff or, or even like lupini fighter actually killed a man because he was looking at stuff like that, you know, like, so basically, they were they get a chance at second chance by fighting. And if they win enough fights, they get a sentence reduction in this crazy movie, like scenario. So I get called, along with another Canadian, Mexican, Iranian Uzbekistan. It was quite interesting we go there and it was it was like a movie where actually I got approached recently to make a movie about this so we'll see how it goes. But I want I want to fight and the same promoter that was organizing prison fight. You know, a year later I I'm really looking for money I met my wife Irina, we're struggling. I need to I need a big break in my life. So I'm like, I need I need I need to call somebody like I'm, I'm looking for fights, right? Looking for five skip and skip some steps here. But basically, I'm looking for fights. I'm calling whoever I can call. I called my last resort is to call the prison fight promoter that I met here a year before. And I'm like day I'm sorry, I don't promote fights anymore. And Muay Thai in Thailand. Like what do you mean say, Well, I don't but I promote let's wait. Are you kidding me? This is like, like what is happening? And he tells me Yeah, we're now in Myanmar in Yangon. And if you want, I know that you were pretty game back in the days you set up in the prison and behind maximum security prison to fight this guy, you want to fight and let's weigh against to to, in the end gun for the first World Championship and like, sign me up, let's

Host  10:18

go. That's an amazing story.

David LeDuc  10:20

I was like, it's a lot to unbox here is like a prison fight. And

Host  10:24

yeah, it's it's, it's a whole part of your life story and just five minutes. And it's so funny, because it reminds me of my own story and how I got there. And kind of a strange way that just is, you felt this incredibly strong pool with this Burmese martial art. I, from the time that I heard about the way that meditation and the Buddhist culture were in Myanmar, I just knew I had to go there, it was also a military dictatorship. And for years, I was just doing everything I could do to try to get there and try to even looking at some really my career and my, my profession to do something else just to be there in any capacity just so, so much wanting to be at this source where these meditation traditions were flourishing in the way they were and couldn't find a way. And then in my profession, in my limited field, there was a position that opened up in Myanmar that no one wanted to take, because who wanted to go there, people want to go to Switzerland or, you know, Japan or someplace like that. And I just couldn't believe my luck. Like, I'm going to the country, I want to go more than anywhere else in the world doing something that's in my profession. That's my passion, which was training at the time. So, you know, it's just interesting, because there's completely different kinds of vocations and passions that are pursuing but both of them are centered in Myanmar, both of them are very hard for a young man or young Western man at that time to try to find a way to do that thing in that country at the time. And yet here we both are have, somehow the universe getting us there. So before you get to Myanmar, I do want to ask you, you said at the beginning that you were really pulled into let's wait for the moment you heard about it, you describe yourself as being somewhat of a black sheep and liking this kind of this, this art this, this martial art that that many that many other fighters are not interested or knowing about at the time. What was it about Lethwei specifically that just compelled and pulled you so much when there was so many different martial arts out there?

David LeDuc  12:17

Yeah, great question. Actually, what he said, Are we got into Myanmar in a similar way, I thought you said you went to prison. Different, I'm happy wasn't the case. To answer your question. To answer your question, basically, like, I skipped over, you know, my, I think, my childhood I, I went into so I went through some things like, you know, I got I got kicked out of the family house, which now I have an amazing relationship with my parents. But you know, at the time, it was very traumatizing, and all these things and I somehow, like but that was, you know, leading up all these years from almost getting kicked out of school. I was in a troubled childhood, just, I was just like, a lot of energy. And I, I just needed, I wasn't, I wasn't made for school, I was made to be an entrepreneur I was made to, to move and all these things. But overall, what brought me to Lithuania was the fact that first of all, it was different, like I was different. Myself. So it was different. It was it was provocative, I think that's the main key was it was it was bare knuckle it was headbutts allow it, it was unique. And I never liked to be to fit in the mold. And I never like to be like I always say like, I don't know if I can swear in your show. But like, you can swear, I always said like normal is boring. I like Yeah. Like, I feel like normal is boring. And we only have as far as much as we know, we only have one life that we're aware of. And like I want to live it to the fullest. And I feel like we somehow everybody lives, similar lives, certainly less ways different. It's definitely not cut cookie cutter mold. It's all in all. It's very unique martial art. And if I'm going to going to fulfill if I want to pursue a fighting career, like I want to do it into wrestling. I don't understand makes sense.

Host  14:05

Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. And that was the thing that brought you there. And then once you actually came into me and Mar you met Burmese fighters and teachers and audience who appreciate the fans, the aficionados that were behind the sport, as you started getting deeper into this Lethwei world in this Burmese world as you you entered for your first fight against to to take us back a little of what that was like.

David LeDuc  14:29

Okay, great. Matt. Well, when we first set foot, actually, it's funny. I actually went to Gen Con on a visa on a visa run during my trips in Thailand. That was my first experience with EMR. And it was only like for a brief moment I think it was 10 minutes in and out got stamped and left and it was like a different world right the I saw for some I started long Geez. I saw the beetle nut I saw there was a different horror to that land and like it just, it just made it more even more exciting. And only a couple years later, right in 2016, I set for there with my wife. And again, we lie that it will end in EMR and then gone and we get gifted and lungi by a translator, which have I still have it to this day, they were so welcoming and so made us feel so like at home. And that right away, I knew that like it was it was like a second home. And I don't know if I can get you on that, on that. That thing. But basically, I related to the people very quickly because at home in Canada, it's not a secret that we're kind of becoming desensitized. We're a bit like, like manhood is getting watered down a little bit. So that means there's no more lumberjacks, like back in the days. And it's like, mostly, I don't know, like fighting is not part of the culture anymore. It's very, it's I don't know how to verbalize it, but and who I find myself like, I try to be as kinda like can outside of the ring as as, as you know, I try to be as gentle as I can. And but when rendering, we mean business we don't we don't we go through it, we figure out we fight to win. And I related the Burmese, Burmese fighters and Burmese men in a way that they're very polite and very kind. It's the most polite people I've ever seen in my life. The most kind people I met my all my travels around the world outside of the ring, but then in the ring, go bare knuckles, no scoring system kilter when headbutts allowed. And the you know, the rings invented literally. So I felt like it sort of contrast and that's what I liked in life. I don't like nurture. I like contrast, extremism I like I like like, I'm very passionate man. So I like the fact that it's all or nothing. And I really that's the thing that's striking me the most it's so it is a city of contrast, you can see no like a Rolex shop next to very no hot, you can see like, I appreciate this. This it's a city of contrast. I don't know if you agree with me.

Host  17:16

Yeah, no, definitely. And as it's been developing and changing, these are transition, I think even more so. And I appreciate what you said about how there was this dichotomy between how you acted in one sphere, another sphere in Burmese with the the way that the sport was practiced in the country, and that fit your personality and style to a great degree. And yeah, I'm curious, moving on more in that direction. What you have gone so deep into the practice of Lethwei. And you've also made many strong roots with Burmese people and culture? Are there other connections that you can make of as to why Lethwei would develop in the way that it did given what you've come to learn of the culture and the history? How does the sport exemplify and arise out of what you've come to learn of the people in the place?

David LeDuc  18:08

Great question in a way that like what I've came to learn in my in my study, I'm not a big proponent of like you said, education I've I've dropped out of college to pursue entrepreneurship. And I had my limousine company, I became a mortgage director at a bank the youngest in in, in my, in my province, ever like at 19 years old became mortgage like, I know I achieve stuff without without the paper like it quote unquote. And why am I saying that is because? Yeah, busy. I study a lot. And I don't think I know I think we put our society now is putting so much emphasis on, on on that. And I'm I don't I think it's fine. But I feel like also it's changing. Like I've seen doctors and people that are seeking to become doctors are Wall Street and they're all quitting to learn how to, to trade crypto into or to go into the metaverse and stuff like that, because the world is changing all this full circle to say that I've studied a lot the, the history of Myanmar. And, and this is fascinating. And to give you a short answer is that I think there's incredible incredible pride given the fact in the culture and of Myanmar people given the fact that I wouldn't point you know, still to this day we don't have much I say we because I have a feel amongst like it's just it's a big a big mountain to climb you know, it's still a terrible country and now the other other burden has come with the military recoup and we're just you know, they were just getting out of this slowly and get things were looking good and now this happens. And again, lot one of the one of the few things that My Burmese friends my Burmese brothers can be proud is their that their national sport is fucking amazing is brutal, it's strong, and it's being practiced and adored around the world and that's where I come in. That's the the thing that I can do. And I think that's why they're so proud because like court like to put in simple we don't have much they don't have much well, we can you know, you can be proud of their sport and it comes down to back in the days when the the the Saudi state in Southeast Asia Burmese fighters were being these warriors were extremely powerful and one of the strongest the British Empire was one of the strongest army in that era. And the tang to Empire and you know, at one point even destroyed the, the old cm capital in formula. Now it's called Thailand but it was called cm before so it was just, it's just like a lot of a lot of pride in their strength. And to this day, that's something I'm very proud of is that let's weight is the only sport that stayed true to his route. And then I watered down like like Muay Thai for example, we tied the added gloves they removed head buds from Iran it was called before they removed the head buds they added gloves, they added a scoring system, unlike lightweight, and it's still used without gloves. It's still they still have the head but very unique, very beautiful. Still killed to win and traditional lightweight. You know, all these even we even have the two minutes injury timeout, which is completely brutal, completely crazy. You know, I spoke about it on the on the Joe Rogan podcast, like you get two minutes to recover. It's insane. No, no, nowhere in the world can you do that in order to sanction sport, but still, that makes it why they they practice presses so much. And they're so proud. And, and, yeah, and to go back, I said, that's where I come in is because I, I feel like the more eyes, the more, the more I bring light to it to the world. And I'm extremely, okay, I'll recap, I'm very thankful for the welcome in and what I what the Burmese people as of, you know, have given to me in fact, in fact of attention or the I want to use it to a good what I want to use my position to to to, to give back. And the only thing I can do is bring as many eyes as possible to the country. And how do I do this is to make liquid popular. And the more liquid is popular. The more people want to practice let's wait, the more people want to come to me and Mar and experience the foods, the culture, the hotels, and it's going to it's going to basically help the economy. Well, that was the plan until February this year right there was supposed to do retreats and supposed to do had deals with hotels and all these things. Now everything's on on hold and it's crashing. You know, it's crashing for a while I really put let's wait. Let's wait for me is not for me, but like literally my opinion is the vehicle the number one vehicle to put me on the map. There's where you know and then and then comes the culture and then comes the welcoming the people are so kind obviously, what initially brings people to Myanmar, I believe the big factor is going to be this similar to what happened in Thailand, Thailand when I've been here. And even near what it is right now with Muy Thai mo ties with Thailand on the map and brought so many tourists and once there was tourism, you know, exploded then people came in for for retreats for boot for meditation, but initially it was more Titus Spartan Simtech. Same thing is to happen with with Myanmar. And yeah, I don't know if it makes sense. But basically, I really think this is the is the main focus of tourism. And I have talks with with had talks with, with the government, the tourism department, and they seem to agree it's still to this day, though. Less weight is still perceived, and it's starting to change, but it's still perceived as a village or Sport or Sport for the uneducated because, of course, you know, in the mentality of the old people going back full circle on education. You're not, you're not succeeding in life, or you're not as intelligent or you're not as social status. If you're not a doctor, if you're not an engineer, if you're not a lawyer, well, you know, schooling, oh my friend, he's the fucking champion and let's wait. While he has a lot of pride, a lot of social credits a lot of fame in Myanmar, and he can, you know, do a lot of things with that fame, you can monetize it, you can bring it you can do a lot of good things with that. And, and, and nowadays is starting to change. People start to realize, I don't know if I had an impact with this, but I feel like you know, since then, since I was 16. Prior to that, there was not a lot of world recognition for lots of fighters. It was very niche, and now we marketed literally around the world. It's See changing and people are getting I saw or my own eyes, lawyers getting private training with with Burmese champions. And that was something that they told me that never happens now it's like, it's cool. He trained with a liquid champ, you know, it's cool to train liquid. It's cool to practice that and to learn self defense. So now it's changed. Yeah. So that's, that's why I'm staying is a big answer for your question.

Host  25:27

No, that's, that's awesome. I really appreciate it. And when I, I followed your journey, and how you've come to put literally on the map and come to represent the sport and the country, and I think what is really moved me and seeing that over the years is that you're not just passionate about the sport, but everything you do part and parcel is you're maintaining and showcasing the strong ties to the Burmese roots. So you're constantly representing the people, the culture, the history of the country, with your representation of the sport itself, which, which is a choice, that that you wouldn't necessarily have to do that you could just make the sport your own and take yourself out of it and export it in the way that you want. And yet, you've taken such consideration to make sure that in how you're presenting it, that you're acting as a representative for this greater whole of people in history and culture and everything else. Why is this been so important to you to to represent it in that way?

David LeDuc  26:23

Well, thank you for the compliment. I mean, I feel like there's so much history, you know, like the liquor one, for example, for those who are not familiar with the Let come on, it's the the gesture of clapping your, your, you're probably seen in in some little videos, if they watched or some pictures, you put your your your arm, your elbow in the air, on your chest, and then you clap your elbow, with the other hand, which is a symbol of the wings of an eagle or roosters fighting when they flap their wings before they go into battle, or to go before hunting. So that's the know very old gesture, they used to be practiced by the Burmese warriors, when they go into the trenches in in war. And they challenge and they go they go to fight and also in let's wait before your fight you do to let them win to your opponent, challenge him with honor and respect. And, you know, these gestures are 1000s of years old. And it's, it's it's like, it's so beautiful and so culturally rich, that I felt like this, you know, needs to be needs to be continued needs to be like, preserved and, you know, along with many, you know, it's done with many, many players, many, many team mates that, you know, we it's not done, but it's not a one man show. There's so many people and you know, we made sure that like as much as possible online, everyone understands that the lick one is the symbol of lightweight, and people now, you know, when I do seminars around the world, we I did like 30 countries, or teach I taught to over 2000 students from you know, Germany, Poland, Italy, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Czech Republic, anywhere like Italy, Portugal, and I meet people that have never even left their own country. And they greet us with the letter. You know, this is like, it's like, this is my paycheck. Like, it's, it's amazing to see that and this, and they never been to Myanmar, and they took before and maybe a year before they'd never heard of, of lightweight. And if they'd never heard of lightweight, you think they heard of Myanmar? Right? It's, it's just like, basically, many people told me that they never knew that they didn't know that country existed. That's such a shame. And like, wow, this is a 55 million people population a 55 million. And because it was in the shadow for, you know, so many years during the military rule. And it was it was secluded because of you know, economic sanctions from from powerful countries and all these things. Because of that, it put an entire they put an entire country in the shadow. And I felt like first of all, that's that's my personal bailout. While this was happening, other countries like Thailand, which good for them, but those those were the those countries were able to export their sport export their, their, their client climate and under the export the country as a toll to the world. And they were benefiting, they benefited from amazing tourism spikes. Unlike I think if Myanmar was not into that, you know, that shadow that that band of the world, I think we would have a very different landscape. But we have to deal with the cards that are dealt. And my point is that I feel to answer your question a little bit is that I feel that Myanmar people deserve this people deserve. They have such an amazing, you know, the first thing that struck me the most is the way they degrade us. They're so smiley, so polite, and I've been to many countries, and I've never felt that way. Maybe I'm biased a little bit because they were treating us very nicely, but I feel I have that answer from everybody. I've traveled there that we're not world champions and it's still say the same. So to just all this to say that they deserve that, that break, it deserve a good break, they deserve to be, too. And for me, my, my card is lottery. So I feel like lit way deserves the attention it deserves. And it deserves to be protected. It deserves to have the worldwide recognition that and yeah, that's that's pretty much so I made sure that I do my best I do my best to. And it's it's been it's been. It's been hard, but nothing hard to what my brothers and sisters are living right now. So I can't complain. That's

Host  30:38

a great answer. That's really beautiful. And it, I think you really hit on something important there, that there are these real gems and treasures of Myanmar whether it's Lethwei whether it's the meditation traditions, whether it's the kindness and the heritage of the Burmese people on and on, but because of this terrible evil, they've been battling for so long, it's not able to be appreciated by more people in the world because of that political situation unlike Thailand, which has really exploited better conditions to be able to to spread much of their culture and in how you've taken on a Burmese identity and shared the your interactions with the country. You know, when you go around when you're in other countries, you're often wearing a lungi. You're, and it's tied correctly, which is great to see because that's that's definitely a sign of authenticity as a foreigner when you you know how to tie it, right. That was walking down the street when I was wearing the Longji. When it was tied correctly, people would just kind of laugh and pointed out it was like it's kind of a sign like okay, you made it to some degree. You were a Corinne shirts, you, you often are draped a Burmese flag around you. So you're carrying these actual physical symbols of the country and people into what you do. And you're actually wearing symbols as well. You wear tattoos, tattooing is a very important historical part of Burmese culture historically, and also in that way. So I'm wondering if you could tell us a bit about what the tattoos mean to you what, why you decided to get them and how you feel wearing them. And I asked that because there's this one Instagram post you made that I really liked where you you would referenced an old picture of yourself, you shared a picture from a few years before and notice that your that was before your tattoos and you made a comment about like how naked or bear you you felt without that identity on you. And so I want to give that context to the listeners and preface just what what those tattoos mean to you what they mean to Burmese culture and why you decided to put that on your skin.

David LeDuc  32:40

Well, well, well, basically it's a it's, it's funny talk about laundry, I'm having more. I'm wearing one right now in Turkey. And, and I wear it all the time I wear it. And while I was living in Dubai, all the time, it's the most comfortable piece of clothing ever. And actually, I have an office here for my team and I a bunch of Canadians, and actually it's becoming like the joke here. They cannot come into the office if they don't wear their laundry I gave them so now they all wear laundry. We have three guys wearing a raunchy and the tight without me telling they know how to tie it now. So it's like we have an office in Turkey. With four guys wearing laundries all day long. It's pretty cool. Yes, awesome. And basically for for the tour Quint, for those who don't know, the, it's called the talk when the Burmese tattoos Historically, most lot of fighters were wearing those, those marks and it's kind of a rite of passage from boyhood to manhood. And it's very, very cool, very painful. Very painful, takes about 24 hours depending on the titles maybe more and behind the all around from the knee up. So a little bit lower than the knee all the way up to your to like your butt cheeks. And it's basically a full Thai tattoos. And it symbolizes you know, many symbols on it like strength, agility balance. And actually, I first came into contact with this with this tattoo in the top when when I came in Myanmar until I was 16. And I found it so badass I thought it was so cool and I noticed that first of all the new generation we're not wearing as much FeliCa older pictures you know that to to t and Tata by 20 is a younger guy that had it but there's many of us with fires that we're not wearing yet. Some for religious reasons like Tonto men my my nemesis was it doesn't wear because he's a Muslim as many other guys just, I think it's part also the fact that they were just opening to the world and only Allah was just opening to the world. So they're not their first reflex is not to go internally back to the culture. It's go. Let's get you know, there's my friend I put that is very terrible position right now. Don't you aware but he's a fighter. and MMA fighter got his eyes under bomb exploded, actually, so he's under a military. But anyway, the pota has, you know, like a Japanese, I believe his back is full Japanese, meaning that a lot of the guys are not going right away. So let me get to my ancestry tattoo, they go, let's get an American tattoo, let's get, you know, something like that. So I felt I felt but for me, I felt like I really, really wanted it. But I noticed that he kind of get the need to get the approval of the elders and get the approval of the public and you need to deserve them as a way like did you fight enough? Because it's basically what it is, is that you, you're, you're showcasing your experience, and it's kind of a lot of the elders without you it's intimidation, you know, if you have that it's not your first rodeo. It's not your first once we fight, you know, and, and you so basically, yeah, you kind of injure this, this amount, this immense amount of pain, that behind the knee, inner ties on top of the kneecap, you know, it's very painful, you're injured. And then, you know, you should not show pain was told you shouldn't you shouldn't show pain while while getting tattooed. And, you know, keep keep a straight face as much as possible to show that you're able to withstand the pain of a and fine let's do it. Right. And so again, it's a rite of passage to become a man. And so after a couple years after winning the belt defending the belt, I asked my wife and like, because I've seen you know, every every fan was saying you're you're having you know, you have the laundry you have everything you're you're you're a champion, I was very warm to here, but then all we want you to have the tattoos wonder that did that Tuesday, everybody was keep saying that for like for months and months and months. And they were posting posting pictures I should get and then I was asking no the promoters which are, you know, executive members of the literal community and let's with fans that let's we world, and basically they gave they gave me the approval of the nod of approval or hasn't like, would I be okay, you know, and they basically you're ready they say you're ready and we made arrangements with actually it's at her at house is from the from the sun, I believe one second of the Mr. T Ha, I don't know if you know him is a Burmese billionaire. And basically very involved in the in the community. And second, probably, no, it doesn't it doesn't really matter but Kinch way maybe? Maybe. Maybe you know, Qingshui is, is a is a business tycoon in Myanmar anyways, does a kebab anyway so basically is a is the founder of the WLC the world that the world that we're championship and he is he hooked me up with a trusted that was the new the symbols and then you have to do it. And just before I go continue, I just I met I was you know, I went but I was the ambassador of the sports channel and for canal plus, which you know, at the time, the only I shouldn't be never will have more they they only had the Burmese, for Burmese for for TV for like culture for entertainment for for any any all the challenge they had was only Burmese I was the only one that they selected to be the ambassador of the sports channel for Kanopolis in Myanmar, which was a big honor. And why am I saying this is that? I did an event I did a documentary with what's going on. Plus we went all across Myanmar and I met tattoo artists, and an old gentleman. He was 75 years old. And he basically tattooed all his, his, his sons and all this players because he was a he was a coach of at least one team in Mandalay. And I actually met all the guys who came in. And while the air I was interviewing him, and they all showed me a lift, they lift up their lunchy. And they were all in their 50s. They lift up in Longy. And they showed me all the old took when they had on their legs. I have a picture to I'll send it to you. And basically, he told me he showed me an old machine he had it was an artisanal eletric tattoo machine. And I said why don't you use bamboo, you know? And he said, well, because bamboo doesn't hurt as much. Right? So I looked at the caravan. And I was like what the free so what? So yeah, the goal is like, we want to it needs to be more painful because it's a rite of passage, right? So like, oh, okay, so I'm in for I'm in for a little little treat here. And so we ended up doing it. It took 24 hours a little bit more than 24 hours for both legs. And it was the most potential thing I ever had to do add tattoos. I had actually bamboo tattoo, compared to what I did with the machine was not even near. It was not even near. So That's the thing. Uh, basically, I wanted to get it for a long time. And I mentioned the elders told me that I could get it and I got it. And I had asked my wife, she's the one that sees me naked, right?

Host  40:15

That's an incredible story. And that's really wonderful. And you put your reference how you felt because it's rite of passage. And because it shows some indication that you have made it to some degree, as a master of your sport, you had to have some kind of accomplishment or standing in order to feel like you, you deserve the honor of what this was on your legs. And you referenced this in passing, but I want to go back to it you you did beat 20 Min, two times you were the first foreigner, I assume the only foreigner at this point to ever hold what's known as the Golden belt there and 2016. So now you are a foreign champion of a Burmese sport. So can you tell me a bit about how that felt and how you were received by the public?

David LeDuc  40:58

Well, yeah, this is it was crazy, because I, you know, I spoke about the videos that my coach showed me initially, while we were actually that was, I don't know what year but it was before a second. That was before 2013. Right? It was like, around that when I was around 17 or 18. We were watching LightWave fights. And I remember now that one of the fights that we watched was Tintin fight. So that was me. Before I even fought even before I even like got any experience in fighting was just training in there in the gym. I've seen this young gentleman fighting and I, I didn't know at the time, but we would make history together and we would share during our three occasions, and, you know, make the biggest lottery fight the world has ever known. And one of the biggest rivalry as well, because we, to this day, I don't think we're best friends. Where we, the thing is that it comes with it. There's pros and cons, and for example, like some somewhere argued that like I, because he's young, one year younger than me. So I'm 29 Now he's 28. Like, he has had more experience so that's, that's a big, that's a very, very, like a big, call it no problem for me, but I'm from I'm born in like a very cute city. And like in Canada, we you know, like my point is, I don't have a pet dad or granddad or grand grandpa that's Burmese fucking champion. That's lately, that's basically training me and, you know, telling you from a young age how to do proper Headbutt and how to connect the bone density in the hands and how to have strong strong hands strong kick, Strong Body. You know, it's not it's very, it's a very, it's something that I always played in my hand like, like, when I came to me, Mr. First, and I fought to two and then you know, and then I beat him up and then I fought to make sure the bell the challenging for the belt. Sorry, the first fight was after the bell. The second was but first fight. I was like, What am I doing here? Like is this basically he's representing probably 100 years of, of Lightweight Championship, nine is back. And the genetics are just off the charts compared to potentially mine. Right? And the scroll density and everything I'm like, and just the experience I didn't even have record a meme like that spoke good English. Right. And, I mean, I had an Iranian Iranian guy he was okay but you know, he has died it's literally fighting for his honor to the ring that the stadium 10 Q Stadium in Yangon was packed from from his for his fans, not mine at the time. And it's just sad to say, it was I actually lost the question, What was the question? But how did that go through but phentermine was, was the guy that I even though he's younger than me, it was kind of somebody along the years, when I started to learn about lithium and cellular, you know, until I actually, you know, went to to Myanmar was a guy that actually fallen and I saw, and I might have afterwards, I'm going to fight you one day, you know, and how they went through that I beat to two, which to two was a 70 kilogram champion. That was my first ever literally fight. It was a drop, but I beat him off for five rounds. And that was my first the first time the Burmese people saw okay, you know, he's, he's, he's real is it doesn't you know, he's there is. He means business. And then the same night, Joe, same night. I go, I accept the stadium and they tell me don't you know, don't don't leave right now. Because you know, you just basically beat him up for five rounds. Like let's just wait until the stadium clears. And then when we reached the the buses to go back to the hotel, I sent them to me and at that night, he actually knocked out the tie guy championship. A big side headbutt. So I come up with the sort of up job we call it when you when you dominating draw against to to his mother's best friend, and he comes out of a win with a knockout. headbutt. So he's feeling good, I'm feeling good. And I actually go out of my way, and I shake his hand. And I know he doesn't even know one word of English, probably not even yes or no, you know, and I go him, I go to him, and I'm like, Good fight. And he gives me a smile, smirk. And I say like that, and I goes back to my hotel, same night, the promoters come in my room, and I always remember. Think about it, but like, they gave me my money, and they say, okay, so you want to fight in two months? I said, What's in two months? i Well, in October. There's another promoter that wants you to fight us. Okay, cool. Who am I fighting? Well, he wants you to fight the two men. And I just pause. I'm like, Okay, this is real. And they Yeah, is a gentleman. 80 kilograms. But yeah, so I knew that I don't have to go. Wait, I'm already at. So he's bigger. He's five kilograms bigger than than two, two. And I look, I'm tall and skinny. But he's just buff, you know, bigger than me and legs and everything. But it doesn't matter. Weights is nothing and let's wait. They don't don't care. I'm like, Yeah, let's go. And to this day, this is the smarter rivalry. And that's how I ended up fighting him. And the first fight was fucking intense. Like I say, I come in the ring, and always remember, come in the ring. And he's standing, probably like his dad that PROTEK is. He's leaning on the ropes. He's leaning on the ropes. And I find it so annoying, and almost insulting. Like, because I'm making my entry to the ring, right? I made him entry and just leading there all relaxed. That doesn't look like he's fearful at all. And I jumped, I salute the crowds. And he's still not budging. I didn't clap and not doing nothing, not even eye contact. And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, get off the rope. Let's fuck you, like, Show me some respect this fucking fight, right? And, actually, so we ended up fighting two times in a year, okay. And after the second fight, I don't feel their listeners are knowing but I beat him. And he actually, you know, he also after making the eye open scope, you know, he was bleeding a lot and also broke his knee, his ACL, you had to take surgery. And he was out for two years after that. And during those two years, he was probably, you know, visualizing the rematch. And when we fought again, it was the biggest fight in the history. Mills and milling the entire country was watching. And I did his move i because now, for the first time in history, I was the I wasn't a red corner. It's a no it looks, it looks, it looks like nothing. But foreigner always fights in the blue corner. And a Burmese always fights in the red corner. And especially if you're the champion, you're in the red corner. And, of course, if there's two, four years, it doesn't matter. But when it's the Burmese, it doesn't matter if it's champion or not. Doesn't matter where this museum is in the red. And the foreigners in the blue. I know it looks stupid, but for me, I was fighting the Burmese. I was champion. And I, I was in the red corner. You know. And that was that was the first time that a foreigner was in a red corner against the Burmese. And I was the first one to call him during because I'm read again, I for me, it's so important. He came in after the two year hiatus, crowd screaming his name. Mostly all his fans, because they bought the tickets way before and they were just they really they were it was supposed to be as big comeback. He was supposed to get the belt from you, right, according to the storyline, but I didn't let him happen. But he came in. And I was leaning on the ropes like he did to me in the first fight. I was laying on the ropes. And I was I have goosebumps talking about it. And I was leaning in. And I didn't budge, and I'm freaking Sure. It played a thing in his head because I did. I did his medicine for him. And yeah, it's very destabilizing. I don't know if it makes sense.

Host  49:22

Yeah, no, absolutely. It does. And so you and you beat him you went against him and beat him three times. And as mentioned, you were the you are the only foreigner to date who has held the crown whose hold held the Golden Bell? How, how have you been received by Burmese public being a foreign champion of their sport?

David LeDuc  49:40

Well, incredibly well. The first fight to was was a bit harder because they never heard of me before and I saw some bottles fly a little bit and I didn't notice because I was on a high my wife said yeah, they were throwing some stuff which is very unbecoming from Hermes, berries fans, but we're talking led to a fight with you know, 2000 years of honor and I I forgave them, it's fine. And and it was a lot of, you know, that's the reason why he's fighting. So fun. It's a lot of energy, a lot of emotions or as otherwise it's boring, right? And the first after that, they I started my, you know, my Facebook page. At the time, I think I had 5000 followers, and it started exploding because I really genuinely cared about it. I was interested in the culture. So I posted pictures with laundries, I posted a picture with Mohinga, I posted pictures around Myanmar in the city, exploring the pagodas. And, you know, people were incredibly flattered, incredibly excited that basically shedding a light to Myanmar. And, yeah, now we reached 1.7 million from 5000 fans for the first time we fight it and in Myanmar, so I think it speaks for itself, like they're very happy.

Host  50:54

That's great. And I think that's also a testament to what we were saying before that you the humility and the respect with which you hold this sport and where it comes from and the people in the country and how you're trying to bring it, I think people see that and they recognize that and that that speaks to them. And certainly on your IG profile, your Instagram, you, you've posted those pictures in social media through, you know, the various encounters, you've had Burmese food, you had a wedding to your wife was a huge media event when that took place. And of course, it was done in the traditional Burmese style. And as you go around sampling these and interacting with these different different aspects of Burmese culture. And people, one of the things I noticed is that you do have a number of photos with monks. And you reference that there are monks that are big fans of yours. So I think that some for some listening to this, especially our background, which is well, now we've expanded with the coup, but traditionally, it came from more of a meditative background, I think that there might be some confusion of how what has been a very non violent and pacifist practice of a Buddhist religion would intersect with what is an extremely violent and brutal sport, where they become where they come together and how that might be counterintuitive. You kind of went into that a little bit before when he talked about the the importance of the rules of the different forums and formats of when you're in this kind of place, you behave this way. But then when the game is on, then then a whole different energy takes and that's your personality is fit into this historic nature of how the Burmese portray their sport. But I'm also wondering if you can go into that a little more, especially with with the monks that you've met in your interaction with monasteries of how do you how do you see this intersection between their life and monastic practice and background with what is just an extremely violent and brutal sport?

David LeDuc  52:47

Oh, that's a very good question, actually. And I might have an answer for the fact is, I don't think Burmese people see the art of literally the same way as people in Western world see it. And what I mean by that is that is that we see it as a very brutal and very, you know, in many ways, I cannot.  It's very hard to wrap my head around it being friends after a fight after a guy happens some occasions, you know, and, and even, you know, like in MMA, it's it, there's a big, there's big, you know, rivalry, there's a lot of trash talk. And again, I I'm a bit more like that, because that's how I am and I am gonna be able to say that I did it how I am but it's very, it's and it's not like that for lethwei fighters. So most actually, probably all of them. They're all friends together. No, they're all know they have lunch and they have tea together. They I for example, took them in and saga man, they fight each other because we actually beat him. Saga man is a former champion.  And he actually EPDM and took the belts from him and their friends and there's many, many, many know, Shawn and to tee, the father to and to Marshawn and when they Fatale, I don't know, four times or three times and their friends to get it also. And I don't have that relationship with gentlemen. Probably there's a language barrier there too, but I don't know it's just not i And why am I saying this is that they? They they see it as a brotherhood. I'm friends with you know pulque that I fought I'm friends with well icebrood probably the the only one so we were just respectful together. I I'm friend with some foreigners that I fought. And some nights I don't know why basically come to I'm not gentlemen I'm not also it's just there's for me. It's it's like the fight. It's the memorization of actual like some kind of warfare. I don't know how to verbalize it. But my point is, they don't see like that they said like we're fighting and it has nothing to do with It's the real life and we were friends outside of the ring. We're just gonna punch each other. For me I don't find it very friendly to punch like this. So I cannot be and why am I saying this is that they? They the grandmothers, grandparents, child woman they all love literally go in the ring. There's no there's already going to stadium there's no call serve there. It's very family oriented event it's there's not like there's not a concert like right if you go to UFC I'm telling you people are drunk. Right? And and thank you stadium, there's not there's only popcorns to sell. That's it. There's no There's no alcohol there. And probably being obviously because we're Buddhist country and also Muslim as well. And in doing so. But still. Fact is they see it as if I just like a sport. Yeah, it's just sport, it's boxing. It's lightweight, literally actually translate word for word for boxing, just that happens there. Boxing is brutal. It's where it's no glove. But I don't know if that makes sense. Where they, they see it as just as a normal sport, like soccer, or whatever. It's just like, it just happens that way. There's blood and but identity. That's why and that full circle. That's why it doesn't matter for them. That is a draw at the end there as long as you show heart and you show that you you give your own. The you know, still nobody gets knocked out at the end of a fight tradition right away. There's it's declared a drop. And in many cases in boxing or MMA if there's a draw, it's unfulfilling, and the fans are unhappy, and they're like, we want to, you know, we want to see a winner, we want to clear winner. So that's why they have split decision. And so like that, but and lightweight, they don't care. You give your all you thought, there's blood, and then we lift our and you give our charter a hug and then you go drink coffee at the end together because it was just a shell it's very, it's a very complicated answer to answer you. So bunks, same, they don't see it as a, you know, it's not it's not unbecoming for a monk to like that because it's a sport. And unlike unlike, for example. If it would be for MMA, it's more considered a bit more savage a bit more. I don't know. But but at the end of day, let's wait is actually savage? I think it's just it's a long question. It's a long answer. But maybe you can help me here. What's your impression?

Host  57:25

No, that that that's really great. And when you were talking that more than anything, it reminded me of chin loan if you know the another traditional sport. And there's a another actually another Canadian, I don't know if you know, but there's a Canadian master of chin loan that made a documentary called The Mystic Ball about 15 years ago or so, where he explores his passion in in becoming a master of gym loan. And one of the things that stands out with Yeah, I really recommend that documentary. It's one of the most amazing media I've seen on Myanmar and his exploration of the sport and that he goes deep into the history of the role that had in Burmese culture and such. But one of the things he talks about in there that really reminds me of what you're saying is that he tries to he tries, he tries to contextualize where chin loan is with the understanding of Western forms of, of our of our mediums. And he says, you know, it's partly a sport, it's partly a dance, it's partly a cultural event. It's all these things thrown in together. And so even though there certainly are in Shin lone there, there's different kinds of games they play. And there, there are some games where there are clear winners, and there's a lot of stakes that go into who those winners are. He also references how the winners are not held with the same kind of champion quality as you would find in similar sports in western context. And they've actually tried to bring some version of chin loan in the Olympics. And it's quite hard just because it's not, they hold it in a different way than then you find sports in other countries. And first and foremost is doing it the right way, you know that that is that is one of the most important parts of really honoring a proper Cimone player is there are certain ways that you play that and that you become a part of the team that are considered more how to say like just more honorable, more noble, more understanding the roots of what you're doing. And his own journey. The chin loan was first wanting to be like a master of it and just spending you know, hours and hours and hours practicing by himself and learning all the skills and all the moves. And then as he got deeper into it, he realized that this was a team sport and it was almost like a team spirit of all the players embodying one being that were completely connected and interconnected with each other, where they they transcended what the sport even was. And to do that it's not about just pure skill or winning. It's about tapping into something more I'm kind of going off a little bit on shinbone here is very interesting documentary but what it reminds me of what you're saying, is just that it's held, it's a it's a quasi sport that's held in a somewhat different way where there are champions and those champions do matter somewhat. But there's also this deeper sense of, of doing things the right way. And having been even an artist and improvising while yet holding on to old traditions, that people will really honor and that's beyond the metrics of being able to assign scores or champions or things like that. And gentleman's obviously, that's opposite as as little as can be. Because there's no violence in Jin lone, you're just having you're just bouncing a ball on, on on your foot, but and doing different moves.

David LeDuc  1:00:36

Because you can do headbutts. And actually, a lot of a lot of my brothers are getting it because, you know, you get you need to kick high, and you need to use your head as well. So I find it very sweet. When I see a game always stop, and I play with them I play with, just like, I'm not I'm not very good, though.

Host  1:00:57

Yeah, and going further on this topic, you have these contrasts that one might not expect and are counterintuitive. I also understand that you are vegan, you're strictly vegan. And it's not just a diet, but it's also a philosophy and an outlook on life. So can you share a bit about how you came to that?

David LeDuc  1:01:14

Oh, great question. Well, it's, it does not really happen to it's not related to my my career. I don't see any links with that. It's basically a probably we can say that, because it gave me the fact that I was championing the fact that, you know, gave me a certain flexibility, flexibility in life, literally brought me travel the world made me realize that some things that we had more than society put into actually, what part of society makes us put in our bodies and puts in her head is futile and actually somewhat detrimental in many cases. So I basically, that's because of let's say, because I became champion, I was able to, you know, have more freedom, my wife is I retired when we when we became when I became champion. I said, Okay, if you don't have to work if you don't want and obviously she doesn't want to kill. So we had a lot of time to talk and to explore philosophies, but I was actually making fun of vegans. Veganism, I was saying, I 1.1 Girl, I think she climbed Mount Everest. And she said, I want to do it, because I want to show that vegans can do anything. And she ended up dying, I think from an accident. And and I said, you know, I wasn't, there's always three steps to truth in life. The first one is violent opposition, then the second one is really cool. And the third one is acceptance, and you come to the truth, and I was in the violent opposition or ridicule, whatever. And I was like, hi, you see, she, she died? Well, she looked on Wikipedia, the amount of people that died. They're all they're all meat eaters. They're all carnist No, they're not. They're all omnivores. So it's just it was a it was a it was a bullshit thing. But my point is, I over the years, I started to, you know, have a have a deep distaste and a deep position against you know, mainstream media and most governments in a way that the, well first of all, they tell us many things that it was not healthy for us and B or even us they allow it allows certain chemicals that are poisonous and all these things and I like they don't know what's best for us. They don't even know what's best for them like Yeah, and so you really asked me a question that's very I'm, I'm an activist now I'm very passionate about this, I'm actually building a podcast, I'm actually in Turkey and buying 100 acres of land to build a sanctuary for for animals and I also live there sustainability with the solar panels, batteries, so little castle batteries to store that energy, grow my own food, I'm very, that's the only focus is to, is to build that century. So you touched on a very sensible subject. But basically, you know, I, you know, we there's many studies that you know, dairy products are, are linked to, you know, in men prostate cancer in men there, they can cause also breast cancer in a woman, so I completely cut dairy for a long time. And then I was still eating consuming milk meat until I saw game changers, which was good because at first it was a self fish change. I wanted to do it for my health. I wanted to see that okay, sorry. Yeah, for my health, like what's better for me, you know, and although obviously, I'm selfish, but all paths are good to to, to, to this and I started to renew with my compassion, and my compassion was with others animals, and I never had animals in my life. I never had any animals and I so I was not like, in love with animals. It's just that I realized that why give them unnecessary? What Why basically contribute to a system because my money is my vote. So I'm voting to, I don't care I don't flip the throat of a cow myself, I don't put a bolt gun into the pig, I don't gas chamber, damn, I don't rape a cow to impregnate her, I don't steal a calf too. So we can drink the milk. Because if if we drink the milk, that means the calf didn't drink it. I don't do all these things, I pay somebody but my, with my money all these years for 30 years, I paid somebody to do it. So I feel it was completely, completely hyper hypergrid like, and, you know, we when we have there was a fire. And then after and in Australia, oh, let's help the koalas as all these but when we don't help the other animals. So that's called speciesism. And then basically we're we're treating some animals in a certain way that we don't treat others. Why Why? Why do we we it's bad. It's actually actual laws against mistreating dogs and cats. But it's okay to to enslave and exploit to other life cows, and they're basically you know, like pigs are actually more intelligent and dogs they have bigger. They're smarter than dogs so, so all these things, I find it complete and the reason is money. They don't want us to know that. They want it because it's there's too much money, they're subsidizing all these these these industries. And it's it's very, it's like, basically modern day, modern day, enslavement, like, like, back in the days it was blacks and Irish and whatever who was enslaved. It's cheap labor, you don't have to pay a cow, you impregnator Many times, they live until they're 20 years old, usually. But now they die in the collapse at seven because they're just fucking dead. And then we eat that, you know, and we and again, if you're admitted to meditation, and you know we are what you eat that positive energy. Well, most people eat a tired and sick and sad cow or milk because the milk even in India, same thing. People think that they treat cows well in India now they actually put peppers under their eyes. So they don't, they don't sit down. They put the they actually they kill the calf. The the the put some stuff inside the skin of the calf, he put some dumb wooden legs, and he's sitting next to the cow. So the cows, hormones, things that the calf is next to her to her so that she can continue to produce milk while the made veal parmigiana with the calf. So it's just an illusion of and there's all these things that's happening in the world, but they don't show it because it's money. And that's just that's the ethical reason. But there's obviously the health reason like it's, it's just, it's just it's not needed. And it's needed for health. It's not needed for anything. And it's carcinogenic in many, many ways. You know, so it's, it's just, yeah, that's why I came up to this. And I'm like, I'm not even an animal. I've never had animal domestic animals. But like, I'm, I'm very adamant that if you have if you if somebody claims to be an animal lover, and eats meat, it's hypocrisy. You cannot love animals and eat meat. It's completely it's completely asinine. And you can debate me on that anybody can debate me on that. And they are going to be able to debate me on that my show as well. One thing I'm going to do like the atheist podcast, basically receive people, but instead of debating religion, I'm going to debate veganism,

Host  1:08:13

I just want to add, I think that's, that's a brilliant argument. I've said that as well that you cannot claim to be an animal lover. If you eat meat, it's just simply not possible. Are you vegan? I'm vegetarian.

David LeDuc  1:08:25

Why do you consume dairy? It's very cruel.

Host  1:08:29

If we talk long enough, you can probably convince me of that. You know,

David LeDuc  1:08:34

it's good, I applaud you for at least removing all this. So you don't eat chicken or red meat, all these things.

Host  1:08:40

Um, so I actually grew up vegetarian, my parents were just kind of alternative. So I didn't really have a lot of meat growing up. And when I, I felt somewhat of a lack of it just because whatever, when you're a kid, you just want to be like other people and seem like the kind of weird vegetarian things that we're eating. We can never go to McDonald's or some of these other places. It just felt like I was missing out. But and so then as I grew up, I would have meat, but I never I couldn't digest like lots of meat, because I didn't grew up with it. But so I would just have it occasionally or I wouldn't have, you know, once I tried to order a steak, and I just couldn't even digest it because I didn't even know how to how to eat it. But, but I did enjoy it for several years. And then it was it was meditation that brought me back I was I was doing meditation. And the meditation center was vegetarian, which was totally fine. I never had any issue going vegetarian for days or weeks because that was how I was raised and never never disliked. It just kind of grew on a taste of enjoying meat and fish when I could. And when I was at the meditation center eating vegetarian food, I was I would think, Okay, well I'm going to go back into the world. And this this favorite like meat or fish dish that I have, I can't wait to eat that because I don't get that here. And then I would go and eat it and I had these really strange experiences of when I was because my mind was had been so much into more of the subtle Reality and and the meditation practice that I was doing at the time that I was so sensitive, I was just so sensitive to everything that I was putting in my body, everything I was doing every interaction. And when I would put the meat into my mouth or the fish into my mouth, it was it was just such a bizarre thing. And I couldn't get away from the fact that I am eating the flesh of a bean that did not want to die. And whatever I tell myself about the taste of what this is, or the the craving, and that's what then it would go into my meditation practice of observing the craving and observing the story observing the kind of the general sense. But with meditation, you get to the core of that subtle, actual reality. And I just could not escape the fact that I was I was, no matter what I said about the taste, this was the truth. And at the meditation center, I'm so focused on on my own practice, but then also on, on wishing for the happiness and well being of others, because that's, that's also a part of what you're doing. And so sometimes I would just be sitting outside having a cup of tea, and I would notice, you know, a stream of ants, and I would just try to put my feet in a place that didn't really impact the ants. And I had never done that before. I didn't go around killing insects, but I also didn't really go going around thinking to their welfare, but because my mind was getting so subtle. I was like, oh, you know, these ants? I don't, why would I want to harm them? They're just trying to live out their existence, like I'm trying to live out mine. And what do I need to do to cause them any harm when I would, and then when I would remember where they were in a certain place outside, I could be walking and doing something else? And I would always I would start to be attentive. Okay, the answer here, I want to make sure to step over there, just so I, you know, there's no need to go out to, to harm them. And

David LeDuc  1:11:39

continue, yeah, just just to put a bow

Host  1:11:40

on it. So then I have that mentality. And then I go out of the meditation center into a restaurant, and I'm eating a much more intelligent species of animal or fish. And I'm just like, What is going on here? Like, how can I live a life where I'm, I'm so concerned about not harming these ants that are here and trying to take precaution so that I don't crush them. And then I'm going and having a much a being of much higher consciousness. And and enjoying that like, this doesn't, I have to choose what I'm going to do? So I never actually chose to become a vegetarian. Again, I say, because I was raised vegetarian. I just decided I can't do this for now. And I and over the people will sometimes ask, Are you vegetarian now? And for years, I would say, oh, no, I'm not vegetarian. I just don't want to eat meat. And after like two or three years, I was just like, You know what, I don't think I'm ever gonna eat meat again. So I never put the label on. I just, I simply couldn't, I couldn't make the decision to go and eat meat again. And I, at this point, probably will never do again.

David LeDuc  1:12:40

Yeah, well, let's say that's great. I see that he comes from a place of, you know, compassion and well cared for new welfare. I, if I may, like, the fact that and again, that's really it has to do with meditation and all these things, that philosophy of life and positive energy. So it's really and that's a big part of my life. The fact I think we shouldn't label people about or animals or beings, according to the, because of a certain level of consciousness, it's okay, you know, because then then what is okay that you know, so I feel like it's just as much as we can avoid it because the veganism what it is for people that don't know it's avoid cruelty, as much as, as much as practically possible. Avoid cruelty around you as much as practically possible. So it doesn't matter if it's an app, it doesn't matter if it's a dog, it doesn't matter if it's any cat person, if the person handicapped person, it knows there's people humans that are less conscious than dogs. So should I kill them? Because they're less conscious? Or, you know, or less confident that somebody is in a coma? Does that give me the right to kill her? You know, there's so my point I think, is just as much as practically possible. I want to avoid cruelty and that line of thoughts. We live a much more positive life a bit like Tolstoy, who's actually is a Russian philosopher, which I actually don't completely like, because he was a vegetarian. He was not vegan, but he said, as long as we're gonna have, as long as there's gonna be a slaughterhouses there will be battlefields. Well, people that are listening to us right now, if you're consuming dairy, and if they're involved in it, if they're not a vegetarian, and they're consuming dairy, or even eggs, they're, they're in there, they are contributing, directly or indirectly, to slaughterhouses around the world. So I think that's basically veganism is the beginning is the base of human bettering we because you know, we talk about law I don't want to I don't want to do I don't want to eat meat. Because it's it's basically we're contributing to the anti welfare of an animal Well, if we look at I don't know where you take your drink your cheat your cheese, your caffeine or your milk or whatever, your cream, but the fact is, even if it comes from a local, actually local, it's a it's a bad idea because there's local rape, there's local rate, there's local bad things everywhere. It's not because something is local, that it's good, right? There's local bad things everywhere. Because most most slaughterhouse that are around the world or most farm around the world that are bad, then I have activists that when they're They're local to some people. So just I eat my milk from a local place. Well, it's bad while it's still locally, my point is basically, most very most farms. At the end, the basically the dairy industry is the murder industry. The dairy industry is the meat industry. So it's the same thing. So you don't eat meat, but you're basically at the end of the day, where we consume, they're artificially breeding the cow. They're impregnate her. And they're enslaving her and repeating that process for many years even and loving and grass fed place. You have to imprinting cows in order to make milk. And that's something I didn't know for my part of my life for 29 years of my life. I didn't know I thought that cows produce milk. No, you have to be pregnant, like, like a woman well, and then once you're pregnant, a cow a calf is a small animal that needs to drink a lot of milk because it's a small animal that becomes half a ton. So he drinks a lot. And it's not cost effective. It's not good for money for business. Even if it's a local farmer loving farmer not it's not good to make him drink the milk because you can make money without white gold, right? So you sell that so you need to remove that animal. Next is murder and some places I see you can Google it, they put spikes on the baby's face. That's not very meditation. That's not very nice, right? It's not very loving, but spikes on a baby's face. And overtime every time it comes to go to the TV, he spikes his mother and the monitor eventually kicks them is like Don't come near me You're hurting me with your spikes on your face. So they put that to the end because and the reason why they're even allowing him to go close to him is because it's good for the hormones that they're having the baby next to her makes her produce more milk it's so the point is and at the end after after being in printing for for five to seven years is supposed to live until 20 They usually are don't get their production lowers that's also for loving farms sent their lower and they're sent to the slaughterhouse or eaten by the people. So it's completely disgusting. completely unethical. Why do I need milk? Were the only animal the only mammal the only animals in the world that drinks milk from another, another animals especially after infancy it's completely useless. I mean, I drink oatmeal, coconut milk, extra milk. Any milk you want. I have cereal this morning. I had cheese's on my pizza today. Actually, I had real pizza for real it was it was oatmeal cheese. And it's no cashew milk. Sorry, I have ice cream as well with cashew milk. completely amazing without cruelty. And I don't have to contribute to this. So for me that there is first of all, it's the easiest thing to cut off. After that it's meat for most people that are because I was raised and you're eat meat to be a man you need meat to be a good fire especially for a fighter. So you already did the hardest part meat? No, I feel people listening at home like the heart that the easiest thing to cut is dairy. it because it's the most the most useless thing we can drink eat actually is cause cancer linked to cancer. In fact, in my car Harvard study said that it's linked to prostate cancer and breast cancer. But you know what? The American Heart American Breast Cancer Association they actually still give recipes with dairy when they know for if the diamond is actually the sponsor of the American Heart of Breast Cancer Association that none and they their study out there that says it's linked to cancer for a woman so so when it's complete the world is sick, the word is disgusting. They don't they, they they and the reason for this they want us to get sick because of giving more money selling us potentially pills. And all if every guy for example my my cousin, I don't know my any he drinks eats meat, drinks milk, because I used to be the biggest drink milk drinker and ice cream in the world. Like nobody would drink a tub of ice even otherwise, I'd be hanging out was my go to every fucking day. And if I if I eat this, and then I don't exercise as much, and I don't meditate. And I and I, you know I have a bad relationship with my people. But happens I get depression I get a headache. I need pills I need I need this. I need a blood thinner. I need all this. So yeah. I don't know what people like people noticing. What do you like the balls, but you can choose either for their health. But I think health is bad because we do a lot of shitty things for health in our life. It's not good enough to remain vegetarian. It's not good enough to remain vegan. What really makes us continue is we build compassion and we put ourselves in the end in the place of the victim. And if people are watching this, and they listen to this, and they're like, Well, I want to live a positive life. Well, you cannot live a positive life when you're ingesting animal products and, and contributing to mass murder and you know, you know, and imprinting and kidnapping and I was praying right now we're taking our first child and I cannot believe thank you so much and I'm not I cannot believe for example, that would be a cow. Cow and we remove the baby. And we say we just pumped the mother until she's fucking just exhausted while we killed the baby. And that's the truth, like you said, if you care for ends, well, they're those cows, they're getting milk to death, they're getting their baby taken away. Many times they're alive, they're scream, you know, the scream, and that's in India that's in, in USA, that's in Canada that's in local farms. That's the they are an entity, that to just the, to just add to their suffering and draw their life. Oh, by the way, you know, you're going to the slaughterhouse, you're done. Thank you for your service, your tilde does what's better? How is that better than than then slavery than than Black slavery back in the days of the US? How's that better? It's just slavery, but another species.

Host  1:20:42

Thank you for that. Those are a lot of really important things to think about, and connecting a lot of different elements from diet to well being compassion.

David LeDuc  1:20:51

And if people doesn't agree they can come spar with it only thought about only health reasons. And thought we can can show you.

Host  1:21:01

Yeah, so I think this has been great to this point in terms of introducing you and so many different parts of your background, your trajectory, your views towards life and experiences in Myanmar. And I want to shift the topic over to the difficult situation of what's been going on these last number of months. And I think that listeners have now been properly introduced to you and understanding you to be able to hear your responses and your actions since February 1, and understand your connection to this country in this culture and everything else. So I just want to go back first to February 1, you hear that the military coup has happened. This comes as a shock I'm sure to you as it has to so many of us. Can you take us back to those initial reactions?

David LeDuc  1:21:46

Well, I was actually in the plane on our way to Turkey when I heard I first heard the news like not in the plane but like, on my way to the airport, I believe and it was it was crushing I couldn't I couldn't believe I I thought okay, ASSK reelected we can continue to because it's it was not it was not given, like life is not like perfect Myanmar, we you know, you've lived there. It's still a lot of struggle ahead. And but still, okay, we're going there. She's reelected this bill. And but yeah, I don't know what to say it's been. I just I was speechless. I couldn't I couldn't believe it and then all the new starting unfolding and fully I took I took I actually Min Aung Hlaing's son was. So an athlete in Myanmar. For those who don't know, we took a few days to just assess what's happening. I took a few days, I'm just not really understanding because, you know, I'm a promoter of their national sport. I'm not completely aware of all the politics there. And then I just, I try to understand what's happening. And as the news club started to come out, and like, okay, we're full on full on military coup, and we're basically all my friends are messaging me, like they've helped me it was just feel I feel so powerless. Like, I'm basically saying that yeah, basically, they will get their living, they're about to live with their parents lives, you know, and their members live and I was like this This cannot be real. And as it started unfold, I started to see my friends saying like, Oh, the internet is getting cut, like what is happening? And then I saw the only thing I could do to answer your question it was to I couldn't stay silent. I just and I actually knew between me and you I probably will will never be able to go back to Myanmar until until the military still runs the country because of position I took and I don't want to actually to and unless they're the same like as long as the military rules the country I'm not interested I don't want to support I think in a lot of people in life in politics are viable you can buy people with money right? You can buy you know, I could have been bought many times but you can live in I live for yourself like it could have been very easy. Like probably some celebrities did that in Myanmar as well. Let's support that atrocious situation and I could I could be you know, supported by the military like yes, Dave is our spokesperson very easily draw very easily. I go there, I try to calm everybody down saying that everything's okay. Basically like communism back in the days my wife lived in Soviet Union, right? She's like, I could very easy to do this and become like, a symbol of like, The Hunger Games basically just pretend like everything's okay. And but I'm not interested in to this. I have the cries of help of my people. I saw they a poising wells for burning house. It's just insane and I have shared so many videos. I one point I probably lost some followers. I don't I don't care, but games gained a lot of respect from my people that I shared as many videos as I could every day, every day sharing what I've seen, I said, send me videos, I'll post it. I had a big platform and it's time, like, you know, selling DVDs or selling seminars, it's fuck all compared to compared to shedding a light of what's happening. I tried to, to. I I called out the UN on this. , but didn't do much. And yeah, so I my position initially was to raise awareness.

Host  1:25:35

Yeah, and I think for you, as for all of us, for anyone that's connected to Myanmar in any way, no matter who you are, and what your standing is, the coup happens, and you suddenly have to realize, who am I? What can I do? What am I willing to do? How much do I want to be involved in this and just try to figure out what the role is going to be? That's certainly the case for all of the activists in Myanmar will have to decide are they frontlines? Are they strategy? Are they propaganda? are they what are they the medicine? Or what are they doing? Are they Intel? And for those of us outside the country? It's the same decision of to what extent do we want to be involved? And as you go through that process, you're on one hand, this is something that affects anyone who's involved in Myanmar in any way to have to decide to what do they want to be involved, first of all, and then to what extent what personal risk are they going to take to business or safety or, or what else and basically, how much skin are you going to have in the game to care about what's going on. But you're in a difficult in a different position, you You are the only reigning foreign champion of the traditional sport, who has carried a love of Myanmar culture and people on your back as you go throughout the world in terms of representing. So and as because Mars is a closed country, it doesn't have too many champions, and I don't mean champion in the sense of Lethwei. I mean, if you look at some of the other Southeast Asian countries, or even Japan, or Korea or Thailand, whether you're talking about cuisine, or spirituality, or sport, or whatever it is, because of those, those countries have been open, you have certain kinds of Western ambassadors who have gone and trained in those fields, and then accurately represent a kind of westernized contextual understanding of that traditional sports. And so as you've said so eloquently during this interview, they've been able to carry whatever medium that is, and then bring people to the love and interest of that culture. Myanmar doesn't have a whole lot of representatives, whether you're talking about food, or sport or meditation, or what else because of the close nature, you're one of really the few in that number of the last, I don't know how many years 50 100 years, whatever it is. And so you're in a much more unique position of what are you going to do and especially as you said earlier, you said an hour ago that you were in discussions with the head of the Ministry of Tourism and some of the major hotels of this huge business initiative you're going to do and you're retired now so you have a lot of your brand and your business built up in here. And so you have a lot to juggle here in terms of trying to understand what's happening the the moral and the ethics of it the business and the livelihood aspect. So you even though you didn't have a personal safety issue, as those in Myanmar now do, if they're going to be involved of the the violence that can happen with them. It is a livelihood issue. So how much was that a consideration for you in deciding what you wanted to do with your voice and platform?

David LeDuc  1:28:30

Hmm, good question. Well, it was it was crashing because I really, really want to go back I really want to go back and but you know, sometimes you have to do what we have to do what's good and I would feel sorry, you have to do what's right not what feels good. And what felt what would have felt good was too that's also debatable What if what felt feels good is you know, pretend and and you know get paid or whatever get bought up but what is right is you know, fight and fight and I can't I can't go on my date my wife and I were expecting a baby we can't go on the frontline maybe a younger Dave with no responsibilities would probably be in the cane army right now. But yeah, I actually probably have more more pool right now to you know, to get Where's awareness spring donations around the world, and all these things. But yeah, it's it's I knew that by by speaking out, I was. I was I was basically putting a stick in my wheels, right? I was I was basically basically shooting myself in the foot, like we say, in a way that will all lead to potentially like I actually said in life, like, maybe I won't be able to go to EMR for the next 30 years. Yeah, you know, maybe I don't know. And this is I still can go this way, I still can grow. You know, and, and so be it Soviet at least I'm going to be able to say that I did something I thought that was my reason, at least I'm going to be able to say, I spoke out. And like, even if it's me fighting us, because I fight in Wyoming, I fight in Japan, even if like Myanmar reopens, and they accept tourism, and I do my job outside of sort of Myanmar is going to be it's a hard break, because I want to go back and play Shenlong with the boys and all these things. But like, if I can't, I can't like, you know, like, we'll see. We'll see all the time. The thing goes, I still have high hopes. But

Host  1:30:38

yeah, I think that's that's a I think that's a question that many people had on all sides of this is what they were willing to sacrifice and at different points. And I spoke to so many people in so many different backgrounds that we're going through in the early days, we're going through that kind of inter negotiation, you know, maybe I can just do more good if I just lay low or don't use my platform this way, or just try to talk to the right people. And one by one, all of them just reached a tipping point where they just realized that this is an especially this was the you know, and of course, I went through that as well, I went 15 years in Myanmar, I've been involved in so many different capacities and have so many deep connections there. And and I was there before the when it was the military coup before the or one of the military dictatorship before the transition. So I know very well what it was like living there and how tense it was. And and so there is a question of like, what do I want to put on the table? What do I put on one of them line, but eventually you just see this generation Z, they are risking everything, they are not holding back a single thing for what they are willing to represent. And you just think like, if I am in a place of safety, and I'm thinking about the risks that I have to whatever, whatever kind of stability and my connections there Yeah, it's like who How can I possibly look at myself in the mirror? What hypocrisy to think that I'm holding a little something under the table, or just being a little careful in this regard, or having this kind of plan B when no one has those options? A plan B? I mean, my American passport is my plan B. And so it was, you know, and so once I no brainer, yeah, once I realized that it was just like I you know, if this is if they are choosing this as their last battle, then I need to give everything they're giving if, if if I'm really standing with them and not having some contingency plan of like, well, if the military does win, I want to be in good graces and to be able to, you know, to be able to Yeah, exactly. So yeah, yeah. Moving on. With this I want to talk about the role of violence. We've touched upon this a little bit in your in the play sport in martial arts. But looking at it now in the current situation, as someone is yourself who's no stranger to using violence in a contained way within a sport with these agreed upon rules and guidelines. But in daily life, you're unfailingly polite and humble, you've made this distinction between how it plays out in your own life. But in Myanmar, right now, violence is just spilling onto the nation. No one has saved from babies to the elderly, to those on the street, those who are hiding in their own homes, those who are involved those who are not involved. And so I'm asking you because you've trained to be this master fighter and a bloody sport, you learn how to extract the maximum casualty win in the ring. And yet you would never contemplate using your fighting prowess to harm anyone that was outside of this fixed contract to the match. If you did that, it would just be brutality just be a bully and you're not that kind of person. So from the standpoint of someone who is skilled in violence and yet you know, how to moderate your own use and place and opponent of it, how has it been to watch this kind of unchecked violence in the military? playout

David LeDuc  1:33:51

Oh, I mean, good. Good parallel on the thing. I just think I just think that basically, again, brute brutality or like if, if we actually talked about you know, veganism and basically the difference between between fighting because some people say oh, your fight you fighting How can you be vegan if you fight in the ring, and you're punching people will the key thing the thing that the key difference here guys is consent, right? Like I'm sending, my opponent is consenting, we're getting paid we're getting we're getting retraining and identity I don't slit his throat at the end of the day, I don't I don't kill him. Right. So that's the the key thing is we're consenting consenting Well, it's it's a different thing when we're talking about like, again warfare or or, or this one, or at least 111 Party is not consenting to this and one party has more weapons or more tools like if we're talking to fight let's be fight like you say, we're both equally equipped, equally skilled and we're like okay, let's see what it was the best man may the best man when? Well, when we're talking like in the streets, we have the military that's has weapons. Since guns and tanks and and bulletproof vests, and we have a brothers and sisters that have slingshots with rocks, right? No, it's it's been completely I feel powerless to be able to add to I, I cannot say other thing I'm outraged and I'm sad. I had moments that I had you know, I cried I cannot I don't know what to do I'm really the only I can do is raise awareness and and talk to my people send them money and basically yeah it's it's think about like they're basically fighting and I won one way define what nothing fighting was slingshot rocks and what well the military has basically complete upper hand and now I'm I don't know the situation right now exactly but I think I think that there there was a call for the the local armies to actually like help out the movements and that was a I was a bit of a loo of hope for me as to see that but at the end of the day, would the sentence that really resonate with me the most is one of my friend, former liquefy original fighter by one and he's like, I will give my all even if it means to give my life so that my kids don't have to live don't have to live in a military dictatorship. They will live there. They basically told me I'm ready to die.

Host  1:36:33

Yeah, yeah, that's what many are saying and just the bravery, the courage, the sacrifice of people that are fighting for the values that our country's so called hold dear and tried to protect and yet are leaving them isolated. It it just doesn't make sense how they're put into this corner. And, you know, following up on that last question. On another note, the tama da the Burmese military, they obviously respect power and fighting progress. We know this. And so there is this natural respect that many soldiers have of you and on Letang known as the Burmese python kitchen, MMA fighter. He, so leaving politics and worldviews aside, I think that they just love that someone is representing Burmese tradition. And, and it's interesting to note that neither you nor Allah saying is Bomar, but someone that is representing berm.

David LeDuc  1:37:28

Bar. You're right. You're right, take a chin. That's right. He's

Host  1:37:31

a kitchen Christian. So he's not smart. He's not Buddhist, which is what the Burmese military is made of. But both of you guys who are are somewhat foreigners, and some degree of what they're they're kind of cultish. Military is, because you're representing something of their sports. And because you're champions in your own way, and you kicking ass, that this is someone they respect. And this is this is something that they think is cool that they like. So I'm wondering if you've mentioned that you've reached out to him before and you've you've talked about how what you need to do in your respective roles. Wondering,

David LeDuc  1:38:04

we're good friends, actually, we talk often about the situation. Yeah,

Host  1:38:09

I see, I see. Do you think there's anything or have you thought or reflect about anything that you can either if you can use this mutual respect you have and so let's face it, the soldiers don't respect a whole lot outside of their unit. And their respect is based on this being being a champion in your sport, do you think there's anything that can be done to take this respect and reach out to soldiers in some way to let them know that the destructive uses of their violence you're not telling you're not giving them this kind of fuzzy message about, you know, taking manhood away, or, you know, living in some progressive ideal, you you guys, if there's anyone that can speak to being champions of a certain kind of ethic and warrior mentality, it's you guys. And yet, these are warriors in all the wrong ways. You are not a warrior. If you're attacking a baby or an older person, you're just a fucking bully. And so, so they're because of their their brainwashing. They're using this thing in all the wrong ways. And so I'm wondering if you feel that you or him would have any standing of being able to get this message out to them?

David LeDuc  1:39:17

Well, I great question. I see a lot of parallels of what's happened in Tibet in the past, even with the non in the German, the Nazi, there was some kind of brainwashing. Right. And, but it's deeper than that. The fact is, their livelihood was at stake, and they're there. They were getting paid and they were basically brainwashed. Yes. But some people and probably more than we think, knew that wasn't good, but they they, they just had to do it. And I can't even put a document parallel to what's happening right now in some countries, police officers enforcing some government government mandates, you know, without talking about what are the mandates but they are You know, there's no democracy in some, you know, in Australia right now, like it's completely, completely basically, we have to do it. And the answer is I'm just doing my job and I'm just doing my job. It just doesn't cut it. Same Same thing when out you were you were putting Jews in a train. Same thing when you're bullying Burmese people in the cities, to tell them to go inside because it's your curfew. It's the same thing, just doing your job. And then you're like, No, you I try if you try to appeal to these people, and I have I know police officers, I know a lot of people and they just like, Well, I'm just doing my job. And what if I did, what if I don't do my job, and if I just threw a ball around, but what we're saying is basically, guys realize that what you're doing is wrong. And if they do, while they're one out of 10, or one out of 100, or five out of out of 20 in the group, while the other ones, they know that if they rebelled, they go to prison. They know the Burmese if they're rebelling against their their police chief or the army, they're going to get in prison and maybe they will never see your family again, they will lose their the monies for their families or daughters are done their loser house, and they just basically lose their livelihood. And the only thing they can do is do their job and what and some and actually the way the human the human brain is bought while doing your job, you become so enamored and so like drunk on power, that we see some crazy thing we see that people beat up people for no reason. And it's just ugly. Like, you know, the Stanford experiment, I don't see where without the Stanford experiment, the prison guard experiment. That's pretty, that was pretty legendary. Saying that you put you put people in a position of power, and a very short amount of time. The overuse I probably the that was the prison guards, no students were were told to be prison guards anyway, just to say that. I tried, I tried and I continued to try, I posted videos. And I'm just for me, the way I get a wake up sometimes is one of my wife tells me very, very directly, like I don't like to put by many like you, this is wrong, right? So I posted pictures and videos of police officers assaulting citizens for no reason and abusing or hitting them with sticks. And, you know, in the hopes that it would wake them up and like, should I don't like what I'm seeing. I don't want to be like that, you know, and probably woke up, a lot of people will lie to them. But the art is this this Mass Effect, there's this group effect, right? And if you know what I mean, there's this group effect of like, even if you wake some up, they're not. There's there's not enough of them to reverse the wave. Because on the backdoor, there's some guys with machine guns and the power to put you in jail forever. So what you do?

Host  1:42:38

Yeah, and I think that you definitely hit upon the fact that a lot of these soldiers are also trapped and pretty terrible conditions in terms of what they're expected to do, how difficult it is to get out. That being said, there are some very active defection campaigns that are going on. And those defection campaigns are talking, they are doing brilliant strategies across the country to be able to talk to 1000s of soldiers directly through their through access of their phones and their messaging. They're talking to their wives, the wives often have an outsized role and being able to convince the soldier to defect. And they're not just encouraging them to defect. They're also building them a support network. So when they do defect, they have safety, they have vocational training, they're welcomed back in the community, their families are safe. And so yep. And at this point, this is the greatest hope of non violence, that there is that you just can simply convince these soldiers to put down their weapons and to provide them a place of safety in a future, you know, a future that they've never known that they could imagine. And that, that they've been trained and they've been brainwashed into not believing exists. And so that's also where like when I look at some of the hard work that's going on, and all these defection campaigns, encouraging them to do the right thing. The hundreds of soldiers that have already defect, the officers then in the regiments, they're trying to get to defect in mass. This is where I go back to thinking that there are very few voices out there that are on the right side of history, and yet have a standing that cannot be ignored by the Burmese soldier, you know, because of what you and our son of dung, that you you have a position to speak from that that can't be ignored like others because you embody the warrior spirit that they're perverting and using the wrong way.

David LeDuc  1:44:23

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. I think I think this should be by now you shed a light on on, on the distracting campaign and I'm going to look more into this and I want to shed a light on this and raise awareness and definitely, because I know actually a lot of police officers follow me and a lot of army army guys because every time I read I mean, Myanmar, we take a lot of pictures with them. So I know that it's this is definitely I really think this is one of the ways that we can slowly but surely Really get closer to ending this?

Host  1:45:04

Yeah. And I want to ask as well, you mentioned that you're very close with Allah saying he's a mixed martial arts fighter kitchen who is, is a champion in, in his field. And you guys have spoken about how you both feel about this and what your rules are, can you share anything a bit about where he's at or what he's feeling or doing?

David LeDuc  1:45:28

Well, I don't put the words in his mouth. All basically what we're holding the same position. Like I said, I think the only the only thing I can say is that we we are ready to what would hold them withheld are going to me Mr. If it means that we if he means that we can speak out. So we're going to speak as much as we can and do interviews like these ones. And just because we kind of limit ourselves to, to be on the wrong side of history, this is completely disgusting. What's happening to the beautiful people of Myanmar, and has to stop. So. Yeah, this is the so basically the, the resume of our last competition was this that? Yeah, I don't mind being in a meeting being seen as, as deflationary, or to call the other call, being seen as a as against the movement of that strength to, you know, control the country right now. I don't mind. This is this what feels feels right.

Host  1:46:34

Thank you for that, that that's, that's just really wonderful and beautiful to hear. And I, I just thank you so much for the time you take in and before we close, I just want to ask you know, you you are beloved by so many people in Myanmar, you have freedom, not only do you have freedom, but you also have a platform in terms of what you've done and where you've come. And I'm sure that there are many Burmese listening around the world that have appreciated how you have the love and you've shown them for their sports and where you've taken in the humility you've shown for how you tried to do things, the traditional ways. And so for those Burmese that are listening now I just want to offer we want to close with having you share what whatever you'd like to whatever you'd like to say to them to speak directly to them and what they're going through.

David LeDuc  1:47:23

Oh, well thank you for having me joy, it was a pleasure to talk about all these these issue and to talk about the the most beautiful culture that I've ever experienced in my life. EMR is changed my life changed my wife's and my family's life, giving us a way a way to live from my passion and to to help more people as well in our life. And I want to say to the people listening, my brothers and sisters from EMR. Like I said in my and on Facebook, don't lose hope. Take keep fighting, stay strong. You're not alone. There's a lot of love from around the world, people are watching people are trying to do their best to, to, to help you guys and send money. And I want to say that the thing that that really the most important thing is evil is always be by good so good always always ends up being your so just stay stay good. Stay with the hope because I'm telling you. We're gonna get to the bottom of this and I applaud you for even if you're outside of outside of, of Myanmar, even if you're Burmese living abroad, the pain of seeing your family and your loved ones and your friends living through this must be it must be currently we feel like powerless. And everybody stay strong. I love you and we're thinking about you.

Host  1:49:19

One of the most tragic aspects of the current crisis in Myanmar is how isolated Burmese protesters feel. And in fact our this has been compounded by bank closures and as a result, ordinary wire transfers are not possible. Thankfully, through a trusted local network, we're able to ensure that all donations successfully reach their intended target. So if you found yourself moved by today's discussion and want to do what you can to help, please consider giving to our fund which is 100% directed towards supporting the movement. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are resisting the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form. currency or transfer method, every cent because immediately and directly to funding those local communities who need it most. donations go to support such causes as a civil disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, and the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies. Or if you prefer, you can earmark your donation to go directly to the guest you just heard on today's show. In order to facilitate this donation work, we have registered a new nonprofit called Better Burma for this express purpose. Any donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is now directed to this fund. Alternatively, you can visit our new better Burma website, which is better Burma one word.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause, and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo, GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to those respective accounts, or email us at info at better burma.org. In all cases, that's better Burma. One word spelled b e t t e r b u r Ma. If you would like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration.