Transcript: Episode #79: Bart Was Not Here
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Bart, which appeared on November 22, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:15
Just a quick note before today's show, we have transformed our entire platform to respond to the current crisis and increased our production of both podcast episodes and blogs. But we cannot do so without your support please consider making a donation or contributing as a volunteer to support our active engagement at this critical time of media media sleep media John Cena shot you're gonna play catch up department meeting. Day everyone it was a good day I'm really thrilled right now to bring on a Burmese artist in Paris. Bart was not here, we have so much to talk about with his art, his humor, his advocacy and have to say, Bart was not here, you have a lot of fans out there that are really excited that you accepted this request. And we're going to get a chance to talk for an hour or two. I,
Bart Was Not Here 02:27
thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. I didn't know there were fans, but it takes it.
Host 02:32
Yeah. So you as we'll get into more in this interview, just your approach to art and to humor and to advocacy and the influences the different influences that you pull in your work. It's really quite remarkable. And I really enjoyed looking at the past artwork you've done since the coup as well as before, and just seeing how all of these very diverse influences went into creating what you do. And we'll do our best to describe what you've done on this platform. Of course, this is audio and so we encourage people that are inspired to go and look at the actual things we're talking about, to see how you put them together. But let's just start off right now and start talking about these influences. In turn. Let's go to some of the classical ones. First, I read in some of your work that three artists from from before that have had a great influence on what you do where you're not in this Bosh, Frank Stella and Louise levels. And so I'm wondering if you can take a moment in turn to talk about how you came to find these, each of these three, what pulled you to them, and how they went on to inspire and influence the work you did.
Bart Was Not Here 03:43
I think I'm gonna have to start off with Bosch because i i think I'm gonna go back to my childhood. I didn't learn art through museums and galleries. I learned art through comic books, comic scripts, and whatever that was in the rental bookshop, you know, It can't even be like book covers and stuff like that. So I think in my childhood, the, the nearest, the closest thing to art for me was looking at movie posters, which were like comic panels, you know, if you're in a video rental store or book rental store, everything is placed on the wall, and they're a cluster of images. And you can focus into each cover or each panel or each window. And there's like a little world or a little enclosed story happening inside each window. And I think that kind of rooted in me. And when I started looking through all of the classical artworks and all the classical artists, I ran into Vosges work and it It's the most famous artwork is the Garden of Earthly Delights, which is a triptych. And it reminds me of a comic book or me being in a video rental store, you know, going from poster to poster. And it's a narrative painting. It has the Garden of Eden, the earth and hell. So it's, it's already telling a story. And there are so many details. If you if Bosh was alive, and he did it right now, people would think he did mushrooms and he did this painting. But it's not it's a, it's referenced from biblical stories. And he just took all of those stories literally and make these characters out of the stories. And it sir also serves as like a jumping point or a predecessor to surrealist movement. And then that's the aspect that got me into Bosh, and also the, you know, the technical stuff, the skill in the rendering. And the way he composed all these little details with Frank Stella and Louise Nevelson. I came across both their works during second year of my college. And I was super into like composing, making like complex paintings, like really crazy compositions, and almost to a point where they look like collage, but it's not collage. It's hand painted. And nothing is assembled from the pre existing sources of other images. It's all assembled by one brush, and one palette. For Frank Stella, he did a lot of these sculptures where he brought different pieces of wood or any other material and put them together in a great composition. And it looks like an abstract painting, but it's a sculpture. Same with Louise Nevelson, she went to, she explored the streets of New York and she picked up all sorts of scraps, mostly wooden objects. And she composed, she re composed of them by herself. And it made Skye cathedral and a really complex artworks. And I think in all those three artists, there's a through line of taking different things, and assembling and putting them in a place where it surprises you. And it's just, you know, crazy compositions. I think that that's the unity within those three artists.
Host 07:59
That's great that you connected where those three came together. Because as I was listening to this, and also, as I did my own research on these artists before talking to you, I was just thinking, you know, what in the world, what kind of what kind of art in the world is made after seeing these three artists that look to someone like me who's not a professional in the field, they look like they're doing such different stuff. It's really exciting to think of how they all come together where their common thread is. So I'm really glad that you explained that there. And the thing that you mentioned at the end of that, which is what I want to get into later, I think really highlights that there's something surprising, there's something unexpected, because in the art that I see you do there, there's a lot of that there's things that are quite kind of simple and straightforward. And yet also, when you unpack them a bit unpredictable and unexpected and kind of grabs you in a way that you then grabs you right away. But then you have to step back and think about why did it touch you in that way. And that's that's really what art is that it can accomplish that Oh, thank you. Yeah. Yeah, and I want and I want to spend a little more time in your influences, and then get into what you've actually done, and really, really dig and unpack some of the things you did and why it has that effect. Another thing you mentioned about the artwork that you appreciated. And also what you tried to make is that it's world building and storytelling. So can you mention a bit about what this means how what art you've seen that follows this practice that you like, and then how you've tried to implement that same thing in art you've done
Bart Was Not Here 09:35
for world building, like I said, I was exposed to comics first. So it's not even like the Western American comics. It's the Burmese comics. There's this really famous comic book called to be it's a character a hunter, and he lives near Tacoma. And there's a little village and it's almost like The Simpsons so you have the leader of the village who who's at the tea, right. And there's the hunter, and there is his brother in law, which is his wife's brother with an iconic hair. And there are so many characters, and there are so many set pieces in the comic book where, when you were, I read most of those comics when I was in like, third grade, fourth grade, when the electricity was out during summer time, or like, the whole year, where if you didn't have anything else to do, you don't want to study. So you just read comic books. And when you have like, two hours of electricity, you go watch, you know, Pokemon or something. But those, those comic books were so well crafted, and I don't think they did it, like consciously, but it's to a point where these people almost existed. And it's because it's in Burmese. And these characters reflect like, really rural Burmese culture, or either that or like a normal Burmese household where the kids go to public school, and you know, the parents are making ends meet every month, those kinds of situations, those those things. I think, trying to trying to reach to that kind of camaraderie that art offered, when I was a child, I think it's, it's the way I want to go with my artworks as well. So I want to have like characters that are that I want my audience to be familiar with, you know, I want set pieces, I want products. And I still want to implement the compositions from the classical artists that I enjoyed, that I mentioned earlier. So it's an alchemy of bringing all of those things together. And when I was in first year of college, I was recommended to read the Sandman by Neil Gaiman, and it changed my life, it turned me into an adult. And it's also world building. And it's something that Neil does so well. So every time I create my artworks, I'm just finding a way of finding where that artwork fits in my universe, you know, my, my world, and I'm always trying to assign an identity or a place for each artwork.
Host 12:46
Not that's really great. And I didn't realize we have some parallels in our life because I also grew up a big comic book fan, I grew up reading marvel in the US, and you mentioned how you turn to comics when there's no electricity that's even a parallel as well you know, even though I'm from us, which obviously has different different, different kind of higher level of services than some of the problems that that we've seen in Myanmar with limited electricity. I grew up in Northern California, which was known for like floods and had all these eucalyptus trees that would then be knocked over and you we lost we lose power all the time, we would always have to have candles on hand because we never knew when it would be lost and and how long it would be for sometimes it would the longest we lost power was like a week. So I mean was actually living in Northern California, no power for a week and you just manage I was just a kid. So I, I liked it. But I I turned the comics and we didn't have TV either, because we live so much in the hills on the forest that we couldn't get reception. And so being an only child myself, I we lived kind of in this redwood forest. And so I made world building was a huge part of what I did both as someone passively who enjoyed it as well, as a creator. I didn't have any audience but my passively I would just read these comics over and over and over again, since I didn't have neighbors, I didn't have siblings, I didn't have TV. And then I would go out into this redwood forest and I would just enact, you know, battles and missions and worlds and I was I was the only one there was no one watching me. There's no one joining me I would just assign, you know, okay, now this thing's a spaceship over here. And this thing's an army over here. And we're just whether it was superheroes or whatever else would just act out. I draw my own my own characters and notebooks and then go and try to be them. I didn't have any skill in terms of drawing. But I think I think I think that imagination kind of set me on its course.
Bart Was Not Here 14:45
It's the inner child that makes you feel whole. And when you think about it, you feel like those were the best times.
Host 14:52
Yeah, it really was. You know, I was really lonely during a lot of those days because I didn't have this. This kind of calm constant thing I can I can do or tap into. But through that loneliness definitely went into another place that I really treasure now and I look back, just that experience in nature being by myself in nature for so many years and comic books, and the worlds that are created by them are have become so popular in multibillion dollar industries. But when I was into it, you know, it was another world, it wasn't like that I was kind of there very few people like me that enjoyed the pastime of comics. And I would go to my neighborhood comic store, you know, some old hippies smelled like marijuana smoke when he'd walked in the place. And, you know, they're just kind of stored in boxes upon boxes. And that was just kind of like, my, my, my treasure land, you know, to be able to go there and just spend hours just going through all those old comics and which 1am I going to take where am I going to spend my limited money on and then I'd bring those home and I just read them over and over and over again. So I'm definitely in that world tail.
Bart Was Not Here 15:58
That's crazy. It's amazing that we could connect on something like that. Because when, theoretically, on paper, it's just different side of the world. And especially in Burma, because our 2000 our 2000s were still 90 Because of sanctions, right. So even in our 2000s, we only got to listen to like DMX or you know, really 90s music but the, you know that the parallels are there, if you are willing to connect to someone, and it's, it makes me feel really good.
Host 16:52
music too. I mean, I grew up I was always 20 years behind whenever it was playing. So when I was a kid, I was like, like early rock and roll was just just my passion. I knew everything about Buddy Holly and the Beatles and, and everything else and and we'll get to this later, I became a huge hip hop fan, but even even hip hop, I was at least 10 years behind whatever it was, whatever it was planes.
Bart Was Not Here 17:15
Oh, yeah. Same year, man.
Host 17:18
Yeah, yeah. So even though I was in the US, that was just how I grew up. But I want to move on to the subject of humor, because you have this really unique style of humor, and it really comes through and and all of your artwork. And for those listening who have never seen your work, how would you begin to characterize what your sense of humor is?
Bart Was Not Here 17:39
I, I don't think I can describe it. Because if I describe it, it's not funny anymore, right? And you don't, and comedy has its rhythm. So if you go overboard, or if you fall short of like a couple of syllables, it doesn't have the same rhythm to it. I think it's the same for my artwork as well. The reason I, I gravitated towards humor a lot is, again, my influences, like I love stand up comedy. I think the first standard I saw on an internet, right? was George Carlin.
18:25
In the bullshit department in the bullshit department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. Because I got to tell you the truth, folks, I gotta tell you the truth. When it comes to bullshit, big time major league bullshit. You have to stand it all. In all of the all time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims religion
Bart Was Not Here 18:50
who's doing a bit about religion? And and just like 1000 light bulbs went off in my head. And I just started searching all the standard comedies I could find I went from Carlin and Pryor and red fox to whatever that was popular that day, like Russell Peters, or, you know, Chappelle, Eddie Murphy, even the newer people, everyone. I just researched all of them. And I felt like I felt home. But I was listening to their jokes and looking at their specials. And then a friend of mine showed me Monty Python and the Holy Grail and another 1000 light bulbs went off. I was like this, this is what I need in my life. And this is what I want in my work. And I started watching all their work like flying circus Life of Brian, holy grail. And then I started reading like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which is like similar kind of humor and then I think it all just, I think the stars aligned. And when I make artworks, it's not about one emotion anymore. It's, it's about a lot of things. And I still want to make myself or my friends laugh. So I still find a humor, or still find a space where I can put the humor in. And then if it's funny if it works, if it's not, if it doesn't work, or if it's not funny, I, I go, maybe this artwork should be a funny artwork, maybe I'll take a more serious approach. And then I changed my artwork accordingly. Yeah,
Host 20:46
you reference Monty Python. And one quote that always came to mind referred to Life of Brian. And that was, of course, the parody movie about the next door neighbor of Jesus Christ, who is mistaken to be the Savior. And he's not, and he can't get rid of the followers that are coming. And there was around some time after 911, and the conflict that was occurring between the some Muslim countries and the West, there was a commentator who said something like, you know, one of the challenges we're seeing in some of these societies is that they've never had a Life of Brian be able to come into their societies and function, his humor in that way. And that, referencing that as being kind of like a necessary step between being able to have some kind of reverence and, and, and consider something sacred or holy, but on one hand, but then or at least have some measure of respect. But then on the other have be able to have the maturity to not take something so seriously and to, to be able to, to joke and to, to find the humor in things that in more traditional societies, it's an appropriate to look at any kind of humorous angle. And I think that analysis or criticism can definitely be played in Myanmar over the course of the years, and the art scene as well is that they've never had to this point that I'm aware of, there's never been anything possible with a Life of Brian, certainly not about Buddhism, but you know about other things that are held with great respect and reverence as well. So I wonder what, what your thoughts are on that?
Bart Was Not Here 22:24
I think it's just number one, they, they are always seeking for a savior. It's, it's, it's like a pattern like you can see them, you know, idolizing Dong Sensoji, you know, building huge golden pagodas, you know, putting monks before them, and turning them into idols. And there are some evangelists, pastors, who got rich of the Burmese audience who were not well known before. And then, you know, they started doing a marketing towards the Burmese audience. And they got mad rich. So I think it's a, it's a pattern of Burmese people trying to find someone to fight for them. Because they're not willing to do the job. It's, you can even see it in, in the revolution, like they were trying to protest and ask for us help us help. There. They were not. At first, they were not trying to fight for themselves. It was way later that they realized that it it has to be done by anyone. Anybody else but us, you know. Yeah. So I think that's that's one. And the other thing is our version of Buddhism is twisted. And it's systematically to twist it by. Yeah. I think our mutual friend mentioned this during a dinner one night, and he was saying that there's this general Kenyan fed when I was young, and he was the head of intelligence. And he purposely made this campaign around Buddhism and weaponized it interested in into something else, but it's not a new thing. People have been racist towards other races in Burma, way before that as well during since the Kings era. So it's nothing new. But the Kenyan propaganda works like magic on these people. And I think they started Seeing these things as like, like how conspiracy theory people see their conspiracy and the deep state and things like that, you know, they just started seeing this as something more mysterious, or something more deviant behind the curtain. And it's, which is non existent. And they just started taking it that way. So I think that's also, that's also a reason where you cannot make any kind of parody or humor at attacking the status quo, the Burmese status quo in Burma, yeah,
Host 25:44
that's interesting. And we've talked a bit about your influences from abroad, the stand up comedians that had such an influence on your sense of humor. And we've also talked about the just now you mentioned the some of the forces that go into creating a lack I don't want to say lack of humor, because humor is is inherent to any human society, but a lack of kind of parody or satire or being able to poke fun in certain ways a more of a regimented fear based whether it's religion, or politics, or a mix of the both both that prevent people from being able to go in some of those directions. But what I'm wondering about is, within that context, have there been types of humor in any form locally that you've also drawn inspiration from?
Bart Was Not Here 26:34
There? Is there is do you know about Florida? I don't think so. So there's this village, in your region where the whole village is funny. And they would just give them a bottle of water, and they'll drink it, and they'll tell you jokes all day. And we got to learn about them in our curriculum in Burmese subject. And that village actually exists. And the way they talk isn't metaphors. Like let's say, you're, you're, let's just say when I give you your looks, aren't that great, right? And what they would say is like, Oh, you're so ugly, you look like an ogre bidet, a piece of line. That that's how they talk. Like, they talk in metaphors. And they got so many metaphors, the ones I used to learn. And my, my textbook was, like, only surface level, those are old jokes, they are still making new jokes. And there are like some small bits and pieces of footages on Facebook, that sometimes surface and they got jokes for days. And that's one source. And there's another. It's like a, like a folk tale figure called balls. He's, he's, he's like a minister. And, and the folktale is based on the premise that there's a king and the king wants something, or the king tells Paul to do something, and both can do it, or bolted, doesn't think it's a smart thing to do. And he would tell the king that it's stupid, but in a way that's really humorous that the king doesn't get mad at him. So it's he's constantly questioning the Kings judgment, but in a way that the king doesn't get offended and behead him. And those those are like little booklets of children's story of folk pill that I used to read all the time when I was young. And that those I think those are like the sources of Burmese humor.
Host 28:51
That's great. And when you mentioned metaphors, it reminds me of Burmese metaphors are just incredible. You know, they are, you know, there could be a Burmese metaphors, they're so economical and words and sounds, it could be, you know, their full metaphors can often be no longer than, you know, like, like 10 syllables or something. And when I was first when I was going through years of studying Burmese, and then at one point, I got my hands on some, like, metaphor book that was translated of you know, here's the Burmese metaphor and English one, and I would, when I would read it, I would, I would, at first I was so confused how meaning was embedded in like five words. I mean, it would be like five or six words that all sounded alike and like the first clause and the second clause were separated by just two words that were kind of turned around in order and and I would just study it and just be like, How in the world is it is this thing saying that and then of course, once my mind got accustomed to it, I could look at them and be a bit more and just kind of adjust my mind to like, Okay, this is how the speech is because it leaves off so many particles of speech and grammar and everything else and just to say meaning. And it's always been those metaphors have always to me Ben like an insight into the Burmese soul in a way not to get too, too out there. But But just because the metaphors are referring to such basic elements, usually of like farming and weather and basic moral Buddhist values and, and other things just very, they're very, very simple references they're referring to, and they're referring to them in in very, very simple, short, economical words, that almost don't even look like a sentence when you're not used to it. And yet, when you when you unpack the meaning of them, they're just incredibly profound, simple things are just embedding so much meaning of how to live an ethical life, and what, what kind of karma you get from what kind of bad actions and then just some, you know, some cute little little expressions of, of just how to go about your day and how to how to make good decisions and such like that.
Bart Was Not Here 31:00
Yeah, also, it's a rural countryside, based language, so to speak. And I think it's a double edged sword, because those metaphors, they have a lot of like influences on lifestyle in Burmese household. So in a way, the language is really beautiful. It has deep meaning. And it's just profound and and then, on the other end, it's a little repressing because it puts you in a bath, and it doesn't let you grow because there's this metaphor and the Burmese older Burmese people, like your elders, your parents are on, they take it to their bones. And they just craft their lives around. When you want to do something it because especially your if you're a city kid like me, you want to do something that's that you see on TV, or something that's so foreign. And it goes, it departs from the core of core Burmese values, and you started getting questions and judgment, all because of these customs. And these metaphors that were that existed years and years ago, I can
Host 32:21
see that I can see that there's really there is a metaphor for every single situation, you'd find yourself in life, that it can be applied. I was as we were talking, I was trying to think what was the first metaphor I learned? And it just came to me it was Tenley and say Looney and Bay, if my pronunciation is right there, you know, eat, eat a little bit. And it's it's medicine and eat too much. And it's it's dangerous.
Bart Was Not Here 32:43
Yeah. Did I say it? Right? Yeah, dance dance a little bit. Yeah.
Host 32:48
Right. And then you can then you can put it even even even shorter. And, and so as a language learner and someone who was trying to integrate in the culture, it was great to learn these things. Because, you know, you learn a few of them, and then at the right perfect time, and no one to say it, you just kind of pop this metaphor often, you know, just kind of like throw everyone who are saying something so, so localized in the culture. And it was it was quite fun. But it was also you know, I learned that that's kind of a cute thing. But I mean, all these things have deeper meanings. I was living at a monastery when I learned that. And so at a monastery when when the life there is so simple, and and you're on more of a spiritual path and living more austerely food is one of the only real entertainments or sexualities that you have during the day. And so, you know, even before I came to Myanmar, and I was in a meditation, just being on silent meditation courses, and judging well, how much food should I eat? And where's the craving? And when do I have too much and just observing this whole process of greed in the mind? And then a monastery is the same thing was playing out and then learning this being the first metaphor I learned, it was like, oh, yeah, that's right. Like, I have all this wonderful food in front of me. And I eat a little bit and it's, um, it's science, medicine, what I need to get through the day, and then I eat a bit more and it becomes a danger. And yeah, I do see it as that kind of danger in that real subtle, meditative way of looking at it. So
Bart Was Not Here 34:09
yeah, that's a good point. That could be a tool for meditation as well. The metaphors. Yeah,
Host 34:16
you're right. Yeah. Yeah. I
Bart Was Not Here 34:17
never started that way. But probably because I never meditated. But you're right.
Host 34:23
Yeah, absolutely. And I just found so many of those metaphors containing that kind of subtle, meditative wisdom that when I was in that environment just spoke right to me of something that was just the simplicity of like, why make your life more complicated this is this is this is a black and white that is a really easy rule to guide by have just the right amount and it's the medicine enough too much. And then it becomes a danger and then everything's off track with greed and sloth and everything else in the mind. So
Bart Was Not Here 34:53
there are some metaphors that cancel each other out. Like there's a metaphor, where it says, Do you have But beyond to gamma. And another metaphor says patient HR topia, which the first means like, if you don't move, you will never be get better you will never be at the literal translation means like, if you don't move to another village, you will never become a rich guy or you know, a wealthy man. Because you move to another village and you start a new business, or a new life and you prosper. And, and the second metaphor, the teenage Autopia means, like, the tiger that wants to die moves to another florist.
Host 35:39
That's great. That's interesting. I've often had this funny idea with his metaphors of how you like one comedy sketch can just be like two Burmese people having an argument with each other, but their only argument is through metaphors, because the metaphors themselves contradict each other. You just have one pity stay sane. And then the other person responds with an opposite pity thing. And then they just keep going back and forth using this kind of simple wisdom to continue to progress their points.
Bart Was Not Here 36:04
I think Do you know any? is like for comedians and one dancing. Dancer girl. Let's just say transfer girl. I think that's right. It's a traditional dancer, a girl performing and then four comedians come out and joke. And then the girl dances again, it's a it's a stage play. But it's a mix of dance and comedy called an eight. And in those a name a name. A lot of Burmese comedians do use those kinds of metaphors and the kind of car sketch you talked about. They actually do it on stage, because it's for all kinds of audience were like, I can understand it. The people from a countryside can understand it. So I think it's it's a it's like, a popular way. A popular sketch, so to speak. Yeah.
Host 37:09
Right. Yeah. Well, there's definitely a difference in countryside and city life that's growing more in the last 10 or 20 years, I spent a lot of time in both places in Myanmar. And one of the things I found quite interesting about going on subject to humor in the countryside was how well first how simple the humor was, but then the which I found quite endearing and quite just the lack of complexity and being able to just enjoy a simple joke and share it among friends and, and the easiness of laugh. And then just in terms of life, I just noticed a kind of straightforwardness and obviousness of describing what one was doing, kind of stating the obvious, I guess you can say. And as a, as a foreigner living in a monastery, that was something that I spoke enough for me to be able to understand what people were saying and converse. And so to hear how people would talk about me was was always just very amusing and interesting, because it would basically be like a narration of everything I was doing in real time at the moment. So if I was, if I was going to get to fill my glass of water up, the two old women in the monastery sit on the bench would say to each other, the foreigners filling his glass of water up, and the other would look and say, Yeah, he is filling this glass of water up. And then sometimes with a straight face, I turned back to them. And I'd say, I'm the foreigner, and I'm filling my glass of water up. And they'd say, Yep, you're filling your glass of water up. And we just kind of go around like this in circles for you know, six or seven times. And I and then I turn and say, I've just filled my glass of water up and they say, yep, you filled your glass of water up, and I'd walk away and it was complete, deadpan, and, you know, really, really like a kind of necessity to have to explain this event that was occurring in front of all of us. And I just, I really enjoyed that. It's
Bart Was Not Here 38:51
a good sketch. That's a good Monty Python sketch.
Host 38:55
I lived through it for many years. Yeah, so stain on the subject of humor, you know, when you were young, and you realize that you were being called in some way towards this art towards this humor. I'm wondering how did adults in your life start to respond like parents and teachers? What was your artistic sense of humor and expression? Was it being encouraged or or even punished or limited or what?
Bart Was Not Here 39:25
I think I always had a drawing book and my parents cared, but they didn't really. So they were just busy with their adult stuff. So I had my, my little PC, I had my drawing books. And I had my comic books, and I had my DVD player. So if there's any electricity on I would watch or play games or something. And most of the time, there's no electricity, so I just spent a lot of time either drawing or reading or looking through comic books. I would draw what I read. Or I would draw what I, what I saw in the comic books. And most of the time, that's why, in the early days, my, my drawings were never proportional. Because most of them are cartoon proportions. And you start seeing so many styles to get lost in their styles where one artists draws feet one way and other artists draw feet or fingers the other way. And it was like a really confusing time. And until I found out what graffiti was. And I think I've been drawing all my life. But I vividly remember the day I saw graffiti letters, and it was in an internet cafe, around eighth grade, seventh grade. And it, it just captured me in a way that like, okay, I can draw. But this is not just a kid way of drawing, this is adult work. This is something like somebody who's older than me, and way cooler than me does. And this is connected to hip hop, which I wanted to take part in for so long, but I knew my voice wasn't cut out for rapping. So I had to start early. And when I've found graffiti, it just opened me up to so many possibilities. And I immediately went back home and I started drawing in my drawing books that I was doing, like cartoons and, you know, other pop culture characters, and it just became like letters and letters and letters for like, two straight summers. Yeah, when I was doing graffiti, it was cool until I started picking up spray cans. That was the problem because it was still 10 traits era, it was before 2010 It was right before or after the Saffron Revolution. So it was really tensed. And I was like 12 or 13 with a spray can spraying on the streets, spraying on my school walls, spraying anything I found. So my parents were super scared, I got arrested so many times I lost count. And every time my dad would say like, if you ever touch the spray can again, I'm going to cut off your cut off your arms with an axe, but he never did. Instead, he sent me to college, so I'm thankful.
Host 42:44
What did you get arrested for
Bart Was Not Here 42:47
just graffiti. I was stupid because I was doing graffiti and three 3pm During the day in broad daylight during a dictatorship. So I deserved that.
Host 42:59
You mentioned these references you had from the West, you talk about hip hop and there's definitely a power in that about stand up. Comedians, there's there's a courage that comes from being able to talk about these cutting edge issues. And then there are comics, you know, everything from Disney, poke him on comic books, strips, whatever comics you were into, and, and other kinds of cartoons. A lot of these western influences part of, I think, when they're good, they operate on two different planes. One is that anyone from anywhere even any age can kind of get the basic joke and laugh at it. But then there's a deeper meaning where only those that are really in on the joke, whether it's hip hop or or cartoons and comics or stand up comedy, those that are more in on the joke and in the crowd will get the deeper layers and levels of what they're actually doing. And you're coming from a military dictatorship in Myanmar trying to access these American pop culture references and these different mediums in any language as well. So to what extent you feel you you were able to get in on the joke and what went over your head
Bart Was Not Here 44:14
I think it's just the language barrier at first like when I was young, I even though I was like really bad at school I always focus on English because when you know English it's there's a whole world that you can access. And it's not the the grownup stuff like oh if I know English, I can go anywhere in the world and be smart or you know, learn something. It was not that at all if I can. My goal was like if I understand English, I can understand all the episodes of the sentence or I can understand anything from songs to Tom Sawyer, whatever. I knew that growing up really early, which was really fortunate. And even the even in my childhood, the first song I heard was not a Barbie song. The first song I heard was Billie Jean by Michael Jackson. The first book I read was Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain. So I knew that there's better content than what I'm being served in. Pharma, like if I listened to Michael Jackson, and if I listened to a Burmese song, I know the difference. And I know which one's better, more premium, so to speak. So I knew that if I know English, this is what I can access. And this is what I can actually create. And I took it to heart since I was young, and I, I was really fortunate because I grew up around a lot of bootleggers. So they were there were we like a lot of bootleg, little DVD or VCD, when I was young, or VHS stores where they would sell like, ghosts or Titanic or you know, all these old movies and they would sell cartoons for, for cheap. The things I couldn't access so easily were like, American comic books. Even when I was old, like, right now we don't have a real legit comic book store in Yangon. You cannot find a comic book anywhere. And then it was way worse back then. But the bootleggers were the MVP because they managed to bootleg really good albums, the MTV compilations everything that was hard at that time, or like everything that came before that all the classics, and movies as well. So yeah, the bootleggers helped me out. And
Host 47:31
that's really interesting. And when you talk about the power of language, you're totally right. I mean, there's no substitute for hearing the direct voice of Tupac Shakur, or Lenny Bruce, or Jack Kerouac, you know, I still go back. I just opened up random pages of on the road by Jack Kerouac. And
47:50
so on the last page on the road, I described how the hero de Moriarty has come to see me all the way from the West Coast just for a day or two. We just been back and forth across the country several times and cars in our adventures are still great friends, we'll have to go into later phases of our lives.
Host 48:05
However much I think I've grown and moved beyond how much it influenced me when I first read it as a teenager, I'm still just sometimes moved to tears by how we could put words together that can never be translated. And the same goes for the other ones. And it's also interesting because this is another moment of parallel in our lives of that was what also one of the primary reasons why I wanted to learn Burmese was because the the truths and the instructions and the guidance, and the ways that that particularly monks and other meditation teachers could talk about the practice, in their own language, just it exceeded and eclipsed any other way that I can learn about meditation and practice. That was when I never got completely fluent. But when I was fluent enough to be able to have, you know, an hour long conversation with a monk I highly respected about meditation practice or his understanding of the Buddha's teachings, the way that he would put his words together and how I came to understand that Burmese language, it would have a kind of insight and power that simply didn't exist in English. And among the other foreign practitioners that was there that was largely those few practitioners that did want to take the time to study the language that people talked about how much that would open a new world of being able of understanding and appreciation for this kind of practice that just wasn't accessible when it was coming through another language and like you as you compare, you know, some of the Western or American hip hoppers and, and stand up comedians and everything else to the local scene, which was not really at that level. So also I would say about meditation teachers you know, when you go and listen to some of the Western westernized and and meditation teachers and that are offering their own guidance. It's so watered down and so convoluted and so kind of misunderstood by people. context and by trying to approach a western audience, that when you are when you get a translation of a Burmese teacher, it often it's often clunky and religious terms are translated in really awkward ways. But when you especially when you understand the simplicity of how Burmese can operate and some of the most profound wisdoms, there were things that would just be said that would that would pierce my my heart and my practice through Burmese language that English words can never do. So that's interesting.
Bart Was Not Here 50:29
Wow, that's amazing. I, it's really good to know.
Host 50:35
Yeah. And I think that this is something that this this feature of the eye on a pause a second, actually, let me let me take that over again. It's kind of all over the place organizing my thoughts. Let me start again. I think that Burmese Buddhism has justifiably gotten a bad rap over the past number of years through the anti Islam and nationalist sentiments. And I think that that there's every reason to have that be scrutinized and examined for some of those tendencies. Yet, I also think that it's been very distressing that this has overshadowed some of those practitioners, monks, nuns, teachers, just Yogi's that are living very austere and powerful lives embedded with great compassion and wisdom, that are not really celebrated or known as they should be. And part part of, you know, that's language, that's culture, that's the country being closed and everything else. But before the coup, so much of my mission was the gifts that I had learned from some of these incredible individuals that have just taught me more than I could ever have hoped to imagine about so many subjects, and that are so humble and embodying this, this nobility, in the way they live their lives, just through their very actions, and wanting their voices and lives to be better known. And I think it's really, it's really sad that so much of this has been so has, it's not so accessible for the world for any number of reasons. And, you know, with the growth of some of the nationalist Buddhism and the automatons fired Buddhism, that it's been even more corrupted and perverted to be able to talk about some of these people.
Bart Was Not Here 52:15
Yeah, it's, it's to a point where if you mentioned Burmese Buddhism, it's just terror and pain and inflicting pain and, you know, really bad read. All around, I met this Sri Lankan artist, where I live, and he's also an artist in residence. And when I first met him, what he said was, the monks from my country, idolize the monks from your country, because the monks from your country managed to actually route up everyone using, you know, nationalistic Buddhism. Yeah.
Host 52:56
Yeah, it's tragic. And it it really overshadows those that are not doing that. And this could be a very vocal minority who's who who are gaining this attention and those that are, are living their lives out and really exemplary ways that they get overshadowed by that and it becomes hard to talk about them because it just becomes conflated with these, these these kind of racist terrorists.
Bart Was Not Here 53:24
It could have been controlled but Burmese people, even the citizens, even the ones who are living in Yangon, they, they were real naive. They didn't do their research by themselves. It's it just go back goes back to the point where everybody in Burma, most people in Burma, they want to be saved, and they want someone else to do their job. They don't want to do their own job. So they wanted someone to come along and tell them that it's all right, the order the berm, the extremist movement is wrong. And that never happened because there's no voice loud enough or a personnel who is charismatic enough to tackle this subject and bring light to this subject. So Burmese people didn't the general population did do their own homework. So that nationalistic movement overshadowed everything and became like, almost an identity of firma
Host 54:27
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, those nationalist Creed's became the defining characteristic, which covered up and overshadowed another primary function of the Sangha in the meditation movement, which was liberation from suffering, which was being able to recognize the pain and the suffering of the ego within and apply the Buddhist teachings and a meditation practice to be able to release that ego and which so many is historically as well as contemporary so many practitioners, monks and nuns Have have lived lives towards this goal and towards this objective and this is what has brought so many hundreds and 1000s of practitioners to come in to want to learn from them and to have this kind of noble practice of really tasting something of liberation from your deepest defilements and and pains inside and to have a practice which speaks to them and learns how to recognize and let go of them be combined with something so racist and nationalistic and hateful it's it's really a strange situation we find ourselves in
Bart Was Not Here 55:33
I think just in the name of protecting and spreading the religion like they want to spread their religion but the at the same time they want to protect their religion from other religions overpowering or like the impure people coming into their religion hence the museum obey the the law that says like you cannot marry outside the religion it's just all stupid, stupid on top of Tippin.
Host 56:05
Right. Moving on to your development, we looked at stand up and humor and comics. Moving now to musical influences. I know that you're a big fan of hip hop, but I have heard that more than anything else. Michael Jackson's Thriller has a special place in your heart. So why has that had such an influence on you?
Bart Was Not Here 56:28
I think, like I said, it's, I think it's because it's the first album I heard when I was young. And a couple of a lot, a lot of songs from that album, I heard when I was young and, and the way he presented presented his music, the music videos were like, anyone else. Sorry, we're not like anyone else. And I think he just treated everything with like, extreme care. And he wanted everything to be great to the point where he was pushing everybody else and himself as well. And I really admire that and, and the world building as well. Like, you know, the character envied it, and you know, he wears a red jacket, you know, thriller, and you know, all those zombies, and you know, the, the cinema that they came out of, and things like that. So it's constant worldbuilding with me, and I think thriller is is the I could say it's a perfect album, where it's only nine songs, and all them hit differently and all of them it is executed. Not just by Michael Jackson, also Quincy Jones and the whole crew that did the instruments. So I think that's that's the reason I love thriller so much.
Host 57:59
That's great. I don't know I know the song video obviously. I don't know how much I remember the album as a whole for me the album that well there's a few albums that that are way way up there of course Abbey Road by the Beatles just stands out and just another category and that that define what the album was. But you you've also been really into hip hop, what kind of American hip hop have spoken to you and what artists didn't really like.
Bart Was Not Here 58:25
I think I could say my favorite artists are mostly New York artists. Jay Z NAS, big you know, and, or any other rappers who are from outside of New York who does that New York sound, the gritty sound with a lot of drug dealer talk and a lot of samples, scratches. I think an album like Illmatic it just captures everything during that time. And it's it transport you like when you're watching Twin Peaks, or when you're watching goodfellers or something you know, you are transported into their world and I think albums like Illmatic blueprint and ready to die, you know, those kinds of albums. They may actually transport you to Brooklyn or Queens and you are standing on the corner you're looking at the neighborhood as its unfold, and everything's happening around you and your your spectator and I I really love that kind of ability.
Host 59:44
There NAS is amazing, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah,
Bart Was Not Here 59:49
NASA hasn't missed yet. He and he's like Aging Backwards. Every album is as good as what he put out. couple of decades ago it's crazy. Yeah,
Host 1:00:03
yeah his his ability for storytelling and world building and where he takes you from the start to the end of the song is just phenomenal. Do you have any NAS tracks that are that particularly stand out
Bart Was Not Here 1:00:17
as a standout skill wise, I really love I gave you power where he did the perspective of a gun. And I really love rewind. I love New York state of mind, but my I think my favorite na song is pasttime from Illmatic. And, and Nasus like, yeah, probably those two. And my favorite, I have a lot of favorite Jay Z albums. I think he's like my number one favorite rapper. But with Jay Z, most of my favorites are besides songs like you don't know where I'm from. It's really grimy soul sample New York sound, which he crafted together with, you know, Kanye West and jazz Blaze. And it's, it's, it's a time capsule, and it transports you back to the time where I didn't even exist. And it's just so perfect and gives you a lot of adrenaline.
Host 1:01:18
Right and Jeezy was such a powerful influence on you
Bart Was Not Here 1:01:21
guys not like was not only Jay Z. I took one line from a Jay Z song and I put it in a painting. But it's not the whole series of paintings where I dedicated it or I got inspired off of one album. The line, the Jay Z lyric I use was from a song called the evil wicked fast like for my sins, I break bread with the lay hands picking the brains from his first album reasonable doubt. And I really, I think he was rapping from a perspective of a mob trigger who's not a boss. But he was was not also a runner. He is like a mid range like middle management. And he said like I never prayed to God, I pray to God he. It's just not, not like something a boss would say. But it's, it's it shows you that he he has his future set, and he knows where he wants to go. And he worships the smart figures. And just again you it's storytelling and puts you into Did you remember the scene in godfather to where Corleone met time? And Rod? Yeah. And how and Rod wasn't hanging rod and he was car Don Corleone ask who who's the man you look up to and the guy said, are no Ross Dean or something. And the Janko office dead reminds me of that thing. And for some other reason as well, I just used that line. But in terms of God Complex, that's my first attempt at world building. I wanted to build a world where I get to be God, I get to be an artist and play God. And I went, I could populate the world with anything I wanted. And there's this figure that essentially represented me as an artist. It's a genie figure. So a genie creates this world. And he dwells in this world and anything he wishes he gets, and you cannot ask for wishes. Because the genie only works for himself. And he, he grants his own wishes. And that that's the concept of God Complex, like I do whatever I want. And this is what I want. This is my visual, this is my reference. These are my influences. You are all invited this be spectators but you have no input because I'm a god and this God Complex. Yeah.
Host 1:04:19
And so this line, I never pray to god I play it pray to God he. This was a line about 1990s in New York that you transposed into 2010 Myanmar. So in what way? Was that lines so relevant and so impactful for the life that you were living in Yangon at the time?
Bart Was Not Here 1:04:38
I think probably because of probably because of the these pressures about religion because my parents are Muslim, and they always, you know, try to get me to be religious and things like that. And it's not just my parents. I have a lot of friends who are like evangelists, Christians and a lot of friends who are like, devout Buddhists, who, when they found out I was an atheist, they just thought I was a blank canvas. And they tried to get me to believe in their religion, like they started pitching me their religion. And I kept saying, like, if I meet an evangelical Christian who is like super religious, they would start pitching me their religion. And at some point, I just got get tired. And I started talking about the devil, like, I started talking about how cool the devil is, you know, I would just go apple on them. So I think that that painting is like a reaction to everyone who is really adamant about their religion, and not just enthusiastic about their religion, they're trying to push that on me. So I'm like, I don't pray to God, I pray to a different god, I'm sorry.
Host 1:06:02
Right, another way that you incorporated hip hop into commentary, giving a commentary on the contemporary Burmese scene. And this is another this is one of those perfect examples I was referencing at the beginning of the conversation where you see a piece of artwork that hits you right away, and you know exactly what it means and why it hits you. But then it takes some time to have to unpack and have to think about, Well, how was it crafted this way? And why these two things seem to go together. So naturally, but actually, no one would ever think of putting this in this in the same place. And how did this come to be? And why does it have this impact? So I'm building it up. But the the one, of course, is the m&m line with the 969 month, we got to write so can you can you tell us which line you used and how you characterized the monkey in that in that painting? And just why why you thought to put those two together what your what statement you're trying to make.
Bart Was Not Here 1:07:02
I started that series. When I was in second year of college, though, I went to school in Singapore. It's called LaSalle College of the Arts. And they were saying like, there, there was this project called semiotics, where you have to use symbolism, and communicate through symbolism. And they were even before that project they were, they kept asking me why I never use any of Burmese imagery in my work. Before that, I just use, like, universal imagery, not nothing specific. I didn't give identity to my subjects, I guess. But when they asked me, I started thinking like, I don't really have anything good to say about Brahma, so I didn't want to make any artwork with Burmese identity. And then I thought, maybe not having anything good to say is something I should explore. So I started exploring that and why I don't have anything good to say about Burma. And then I found out it's not because of Burma, it's because of these people who are who fucked up the country for so long that it's it's like a broken car with no doors, no engines, no wheels. It's not even a car anymore. And it doesn't work anymore. So the the there are these people who blew the tire who blew the the airbag who crushed the windshield, you know, took off the doors and not just one person. It's a group of people. And I started examining these people. And they are all guys who are egomaniacs and they want to be worshipped. And they are characters. And then I think I was listening to Dr. Dre at that time. At sunbed day. I was listening to 2001 because I was working on something and and I saw the image of Banshee and I I think I was on still Dre and everything Dr. Dre was talking about can be applied to tan shade. Because he's still straight right. He's still benching still powerful. And he was the guy behind the curtain just like Dr. Dre is the producer that made Eminem and Snoop Dogg and the Kendrick Lamar and make California Love. So he he's the guy in the booth. Sorry, he's the guy on the boards outside of the boot. And he's telling your favorite rappers what to do and century is dead guy. So I think a lightbulb went off and I made a video mall meme with 10 shades face and Dr. Dre lyric. And after that I just started making these poster art with these characters and these red lines and the m&m bread line says, Hi Kids Do you like violence? It's the first lyrics that most people are introduced to when it comes to Eminem. And Eminem, when Eminem came onto the scene he was known for like killing his wife killing his, you know, mom, all these lyrics about violence and stuff. And when when I saw we had to, it was like, we had to was trying to be Slim Shady. That alter ego of Eminem, was trying to be Loony, with slim, shady, make sense, because he's talking about drugs and pills and shrooms. And he's, he's acting that way. Because he's in under the influence. And he talks about anger management and stuff even back then. And where do he he's like, all the bad side of Slim Shady without any other justification. So I just mesh those two together. That's
Host 1:11:15
incredible. That's incredible. It's even even even hearing how you did it just makes it makes that whole thing even come alive more than just when I saw it without the context and how that's that's just amazing. And you reference how you were into more the East Coast rap because of the storytelling, which, when there was the Big East West Coast battles, that was the I think even fans of the West Coast saw that that the East Coast did have a bit of a nod and how it was able to do storytelling at that time I was I definitely liked Biggie and NAS quite a bit but nothing introduced me into the world of hip hop more than Tupac. I mean, just the power, the fear, the honesty, the rawness, the vulnerability, you know, anyone who could do, do you no wonder why they call you bitch or do your mama or Brenda's got a baby combined with some of the the more misogyny that he did to balance it just this complicated character that was just this is who he is. I'd never heard that kind of rawness and power before and that that was it was just intoxicating, you know, life goes on was the that was okay. Yeah, mine too. It's not a very well known Tupac song, but life goes on was the song that made me fall in love with hip hop, because I was I didn't know you could do that. I just didn't know you could have a musical genre where you could be that honest and pure and emotional. And and bring this just I don't even know the context of what he's talking about. But But it's so real in this picture that he's painting of what his inner and outer life are. And so both as that rap battle was going on, both of these mediums were developing and pretty profound ways according to their own different paths.
Bart Was Not Here 1:13:02
Yeah, totally. And life goes on is. I think all the great songs are great movies are great books. They just transport you into that world. And life goes on. It transports me into like a rainy day. Yeah. And then you're just reminiscing and that's it. Nothing else. Rainy Day
Host 1:13:21
on top of a roof at midnight, right?
Bart Was Not Here 1:13:24
Yeah. That's just crazy. It's like Blade Runner.
Host 1:13:28
Yeah, just with, you know, just with a empty beer bottle. You're about to throw off and sin with your friend. And yeah, I mean, he's just he's painting past present future. You know, it starts with the past of his friends and where he's at today. And then the last refrain there is just all talking about his death and how he's going to die and what what his what his fate is going to be for the path that he's on and just lays it all out. And like three or four minutes of this is who this guy is just incredible stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So moving there to the state of Myanmar, hip hop and development and that whole industry in the last 20 years. I know you're a fan of Jamie and land bar, I listened to Burmese hip hop, as we've talked about hip hop more than any other genre is so based on knowledge of language and references and culture and you know, my mom can listen to Tupac or Eminem, and a native English speaker, she'll have no clue what they're saying she'll just hear the F bombs and you know, dismiss the whole thing but because it's so just embedded so when I get to Burmese hip hop, I'm just I'm at a complete loss most of the time and what they're actually saying and how they're using language. So can you share what being an insider with that and understanding what they're doing and how they're doing it? What what you've seen in these artists and the state of the genre in general.
Bart Was Not Here 1:14:50
I think both Jamie and lumber are like, top of their class. Jamie's sorry. Yeah, Jamie's a little older than lambda. And he blew up waiting for Lambeth Lamba recently blew up like five or six years ago when he's been around for so long as well. But promesa Pub is really crazy because the first song The first Burmese rap song that most people heard in 2000 was Rough Riders and a group called acid, the first group at the first hip hop group in Burma. They covered or did a Burmese version of RUFF RYDERS anthem called the beginning. And it was a real beginning and it changed everything. Feel now they are these the beginning the album with a lot of songs like RUFF RYDERS anthem insane in the brain. What's that song with Nate Dogg and Snoop Dogg? Shit, I'm drawing a blank is a really good song. And there, there are so many other songs, some original songs as well.
Host 1:16:30
So that's like the Rapper's Delight. The Sugar Hill gang that's widely seen in American hip hop is kind of the birth of the genre. So it sounds like you're saying this was similar to the birth of Burmese hip hop.
Bart Was Not Here 1:16:57
Yeah, but it was outrageous as well, because all the rock singers, the pop singers, they didn't know what to make of it. And so they just attacked it. Like they thought it was a trend. It was a fed. And they just attacked their clothing. You know, how they were their clothes, how they taught how they gestured. Everything was just obscene to them, either obscene or funny. They just made fun of it. They thought it wasn't going to last. And then 2000 to 2004 or five, that kind of hip hop. But not originally was copied that kind of hip hop rain for a while. And then it turned into like boy, Ben, because a lot of boy bands would start dressing up like acid and started doing pop songs. And they were pigeon holed together with hip hop. So people like Jamie who were coming out in the underground during AceDS era, they didn't like it. They wanted real hip hop. So Jamie G tone big why deaf Hayata all these like legends, who were really young during that time, they formed this huge group called Newmar Hip Hop Association. And it's not an official Association. It's it's a huge family. It's a huge crew. And there are so many small crews within that under the banner of mha. And they deem themselves second generation of Burmese hip hop. And you can ask any Burmese person who listened to hip hop. They will tell you that second generation is the best era. There was when I was in like fifth grade sixth grade. There's this album called St Rhines, Lemmy, Gaya. And that changed everything that put everyone in a spin like you listen to this music and you know, this is not for school kids. This is for young adults who are trying to find their identity which the singers the rappers were also that like Jamie was a young adult who he was trying to find his voice and he was taking you on his journey. And you felt that and you started thinking about life a little different as well because of their song.
Host 1:19:38
So in a military dictatorship, what kinds of things were they rapping about? What What were the content of their their lyrics?
Bart Was Not Here 1:19:46
Because of censorship. In movies, you can only make romance films or movies about you know, the love of your mother or love of a father or something or you make a propaganda movie, if you want, like a lot of money, you know, you get like, phones and cars and apartments and land pieces for making propaganda movie on behalf of demo. But in music, they censored everything. They monitored all the lyrics. So acid suffered through it all the artists suffer through it. But most artists make love songs because of it. So it became a market of just love songs, they're talking about one or three stories like why meets girl they break up Boy Meets girls girl is richer, a boy gets left behind. Why meets girls girl cheats, boy cheats, you know, that's, that's, that's, or, or boy meets girl. He likes the girl or she likes the boy. And they're trying to cut each other. So for basis, and they're operating within those templates. And when Jamie and Big Y and all these guys did their stuff, they they trick the system, they were talking about life, and what it means to grow up in Burma without getting political. Like there are songs like good wanna go, which means like, it's your life, your life is your life. He's talking about. And there are three verses. And in first two verses he's talking about growing up meaningless. And he doesn't want to be in the position that he's in. And Everything's fucked up. But it's not political at all. It's nuanced. And the third verse is about this girl that he devoted so much time to, but it didn't work that it's nonsense. It's bullshit. So he's telling us that like, it's not worth it. Don't don't devote your time in these kinds of girls, which is so different from that the boy meets girl or Girl Meets Boy premises. And it's, it's just nuanced. And it's eye opening for for, you know, young people like us. And the way they put their words together. They were, I think I can say this, they were more skilled than acid. And the way they took this music seriously, make you respect that they know their craft, and they know what they're doing. And they are the real masters assembling. Mm
Host 1:23:04
hmm, that's interesting. So as we look through these different genres of art and Myanmar, whether it's hip hop, or stand up comedy or era, reverential humor, or painting, any any kind of expression of wanting to depict or comment on the circumstances, people are living in, up until the transition period, of course, this was highly censored, it was very dangerous. You have very limited choices, your security was at risk if you if you push the envelope a little too far. And then we had the transition period leading up until just nine months ago and during the coup. So what can you how can you characterize across all the spectrums, all these different mediums of the way that that local Burmese artists are expressing their craft, as the transition took place? What were artists starting to do? What were they experimenting with? And where were they still not experimenting, or they were trying but there was no audience for what they were doing.
Bart Was Not Here 1:24:11
For music, it was a bad time for music, because when it opened up, people started bringing it bringing in a lot of EDM DJs who are global, really famous, and they started throwing like huge EDM parties festival so to speak, and 90% of the the singers and the rappers and all the musicians, they ran out of stage to perform like they couldn't perform at all anymore. People were not willing to spend money on them, because they had, you know, they could see an international act. And it was it was not a good time for musicians in business sense, but artistically, they were doing more stuff like they were taking music videos more seriously. They were taking social media and rollouts. The marketing campaigns are a little bit smarter. The good artists, the brilliant ones who are, who know their craft, but they don't want to sell out, you know, make love songs and dress up like a Kpop star, they didn't get that much attention. But the press got better and better and better. The ones that sold out and, you know, did this really watered down puffing? They were they became social influencers. They were not artists, they were mostly social influencers and entertainers. And the way they earned money was not even shows they just did a lot of content. And they got sponsored by companies and things like that. But for visual art, I think I think I would say that better. Because if I was an artist 10 years before I started making art, I would have met so many obstacles, a lot of censorship. Imagine censoring paintings, like, if you want to have an exhibition, you have got to talk to the censorship board, they're going to come in, they're going to drink your tea, they're going to eat your butter cake. And they're going to say, This painting is not that good. Just bring it down, we cannot show this, this painting has so many red colors, you know too much red, you got to remove this, this painting has the this kind of subject that that's subliminally saying of criticizing the regime. So you cannot show this. And then we're going to stem your painting, and they're going to take it out of the gallery. The bed was the experience. Before I started making art, I started making art seriously, around 2008, I think, and my first show was after I graduated high school in 2012. And by that time, they just removed the censorship board. So I, I really lucked out. But the other guys who came before they got it real bad. For me, the the hardships are in another way, like, because I do graffiti, I couldn't get any foreign paint, like the the paint that's designated for graffiti, you cannot get any nozzles, which we call caps, you cannot get a decent wall because everybody thinks you're gonna fuck up their world down the wall. And you cannot really convince people that this is this is the future like this kind of art. It's it's the future and no disrespect to any other predecessors. It's just the change. And at first it was so hard to convince. But during these last two or three years, people started taking pictures in front of the murals and stuff like that can go mainstream, and it got a lot of support. And people started commissioning artists at their restaurants and things like that. People started buying more painting. But my favorite, there are two of my favorite things in the recent years. First is Burmese people. And even younger Burmese people buying artworks, which is unprecedented. It's never happened. And it's like the rich Burmese kids would buy, you know, expensive paintings and the the normal regular kids would buy a tote bag, or merchandise or print from you. And another thing is when I had my openings, so many young people showed up. That's the biggest thing I miss about Burma because when I did exhibition, it was like it was for them. It was dedicated to them. And I didn't do it intentionally, but they showed up like it was they were championing me and I felt really humble and I felt really, really, really great because they treated it like a serious event. And they got dressed up for it.
Host 1:29:48
Well, that's great. That's a that's a great overview of those years, playing them out. It's interesting what you said at the beginning, how when the opening first started, and there was this greater opportunity I was kind of expecting more idealistically, especially among musicians that they would then use that creative expression as an ability to say things they hadn't said before. But of course, you talk about how the some of the more greed filled aspects of capitalism take over. And now they have this chance you have this opportunity not only for free expression, but also for to make money to be a social influencer, because the web is now just come to me and Maher, it's been all over the world for decades. But now it's being established here. And you can, you can go from people not even having an internet to being a social influencer and making your money through through that way almost overnight. And so there could be kind of a crassness. And this is, of course, not limited to Myanmar. I mean, we have this in spades in my country of people, the divide between people, artists trying to have free expression and those that are that are trying to cash in on whatever kind of profile they have with the social influencing work. But the other element of this that I think about is how receptive the audience is because you have the artists that are pushing the boundaries, in many ways, whatever their medium is, and then you have the audience who is or isn't ready for it. And you gave a great example of stead of having this new gallery that opened and having all of these young Burmese that were just so excited and champion you and wanting to, to see and evaluate this creative expression. And I there's a story I've told on a number of other episodes, because it really hit me pretty hard when it happened and had me reflect quite a bit over this incident. There was I don't remember the year it was, might have been 17 or so 18, where there was a, like an Earth Day celebration where they had invited, I think it might have been the US Embassy and had in a cultural affairs department had invited Burmese artists who paint whatever they wanted to as a message of Earth Day and environmental sustainability and everything else. One Burmese artist painted a picture of the historical Buddha wearing a gas mask as all of the Yep, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Right. And that had a profound effect on me because the reaction from the Burmese audience was overwhelmingly negative. I mean, it wasn't just, we disagree with it, it was and it wasn't even just we don't want to see this, it was, this should not be allowed. And the person who did this should be punished. And for me, it was really, it was really painful. Because this was several years after the official state censor of Myanmar has resigned his position and there now is no official censor acting in that capacity. You basically have the public standing up and saying, we want that sensor back. We don't want to be allowed to see this. And, you know, I I initially came to me and more because of my interest in meditation and my respect and reverence for the Buddha. So I'm somewhat of an insider and not in Burmese culture, but in in seeing the Buddha as a spiritual teacher. And yet I felt so strongly that whatever the merits of this painting, let's discuss it, let's talk about it. Let's This is a Life of Brian moment, you know, let's talk about the appropriateness of how it's being depicted what he's showing, actually, I didn't feel there was any offense whatsoever I felt it was, it was in no way critical to Buddha it was saying that if the Buddha came back to the golden land today, this is the kind of pollution you live in. This is a truth, you know that he can't even breathe. He does. He does on upon a breathing meditation. He can't even do that. Because the sky I thought it was just this brilliant commentary. That if anything, to me, was like a reverence of the Buddha that that it's the shame that that look, look how poorly we're taking care of our environment. And but yet the reaction but that was my reaction, and if another devout meditator had a different impression, fine. That's great. Let's let's talk about it. But to have the reaction is something like we should not be allowed to see this, we should be censored, the person should be punished. That to me was was kind of an indication that where the artists might be making some headway and audience base might not quite be ready for that freedom.
Bart Was Not Here 1:34:09
Yep, absolutely. It's Plato's cave allegory. It's exactly that. I think. I think it was so hard to steer. The Burmese audience or the Burmese people in general into you know, I don't want to call it progressive but I think it's it's progressive way of thinking or just just talk about it. Don't Don't throw stones at each other and just sit down and talk about it, but they would not come to the table for that kind of banks. And most of not all of it but most of it can also go back to the social influencers because the social impact To answer, they had so much influence on these people, like they had them in the palm of their hand. And all they did was push their products on them. And they, they always said what they wanted to hear. And that reinforced the general public. And on Facebook, it's mostly people from the rural area where people are trying to live vicariously through these social influencers, they don't have an outlet, they don't have this lifestyle. So they are living through these select few influencers. And these influencers, tell them what they want to hear. And they think, because their idols tell them what this and they already believe in it, they just take it to heart and they think it's, it's a concrete fact. And when they see something that goes against the grain, their confidence, and their, their sense of like, reinforcement, backs them up to actually, you know, say something really hurtful, or like just straight up, react with violin intentions towards these people who are trying to do something new.
Host 1:36:25
Right? So we're examining these during the transition period, what the artists were doing, how receptive different audiences were to them. And the growth of these capitalist inspired social influencers, you have this potent cocktail that is in various stages of development, and then the coup hits. So once the coup hit, and after we've seen the month following February first, where have you seen these categories fall into where you have the artists, the social influencers and the audience that is ready for some kind of creative expression? How have you seen any shift among those three categories and how they've respectively responded since the cool
Bart Was Not Here 1:37:04
there are some influencers like one or two who actually went to the jungle, and they took up arms and stuff like that. There are some people spoke out there are some people there are a lot of people who just stayed silent, and people started boycotting them. So they appeared and they posted a picture of themselves holding up three fingers salute. And then they disappeared again for like a couple of months. And then they wanted to show something. So they came back up online. And they wanted they started pushing their fries and people crushed them. I mean, it's a shit show. And then there are some musicians who are too scared or who are connected or who are who, whose whose son, you know, sons and daughters, who cannot speak out and shit like that. There are some there are so many stories, there are people who died in the jungle because they can get any medication, who were like, like Raman, the famous rock musician, you know, he he was really active during the protests, and he went into the jungle and he died. So it's, it's a, it's a ray of, it's a spectrum of all kinds of nuanced stories. And mostly for artists. I think. Sometimes I talk about this with my friends. And I feel like we take pride in this because we were the one of the first people to react to the code. Three, we were the first to make these artworks. And I made my first artwork on second February, I think. Yeah. On second February, the the the people that I still remember all the artwork of the first artworks that came out of the February, 1 week. I think we were the first people to denounce the coup and we started making memes and we started making digital artworks. It was It felt it feels like it was two years ago, but it's crazy.
Host 1:39:19
What did you do? What were those first pieces?
Bart Was Not Here 1:39:22
I think I made a I made an image called I just wrote this obey and a graffiti tag and I put it up as my profile picture. And it went viral. It was beautiful because it did not go viral like a campaign. I posted this obey on my profile picture. And in a week span I started seeing all the disobeyed tags on the walls like all the other graffiti writers, young or same age as me they they painted this obey on The wall. And that was pretty powerful. I've never experienced that kind of thing before. And it was amazing. Beautiful.
Host 1:40:09
Right? You you've commented before that you've never really felt political and that you don't consider yourself to be an artist activist. Has that changed since the coup?
Bart Was Not Here 1:40:20
No, no, no, I don't, I still don't see myself as an artist activist. I because I, I like the skill part so much. And I like what I present. Like, in my artworks, it's not just political stuff, it's so much more. And I'm talking about the human experience, not just a Burmese or a niche, you know, political experience, I'm talking about ego, and sometimes, you know, using ego to invoke humor in my artworks. Sometimes I'm talking about just a random incident, or, you know, some joke that people around me, only people around me get, or some something that's so nice that a young audience will understand or something so broad that everybody can understand. So, I don't want to be limited to, you know, a political artist or an artist activist because that means I'm a one dimensional human being. And even when I did these artworks, that has like political satire before the coup, I have my reasoning, just just like I said, for the posters with the figures and the lyrics. It's not just about politics, it was my way of seeing these figures. And my love for hip hop music. And it's not it may be political, but it's like a small aspect of the this huge series. So I never want to be an artist activist or political artists. I think that's that's just not me.
Host 1:42:06
Right? I guess I was confused seeing that because when I started to look at some of your art especially after the coup, it the your heart was just on your sleeve and the passion and the expression was so strong and maybe it's just a question of semantics and language but for example, just to give a couple of the some of the artworks that you've done that illustrated this disobey obviously being a powerful one many different kinds of art work with three fingers you have a very powerful one called Answer the call where you're it's um, it depicts exactly what those three words show of the protesters that are answering the call to defend their freedoms and their rights and it's painted almost like a reminded me almost of like, a you know, a World War Two recruiting poster or something that was really trying to be patriotic to the people of wanting them to join the right cause. You have you have another one showing the Molotov cocktail. Another one this fucking country. That seems to be the this criticizing this mess of everything that's happening. And so
Bart Was Not Here 1:43:14
Oh, this fucking country came way before. Okay, cool. Okay, yeah, this question country was a typography painting, right? It's, it's, it says an alumina with the landscape in the background.
Host 1:43:31
Right. Well, even so even though that it was done before the coup, all of these seem to have so much passion, and, and something of a political statement. So I'm wondering what, in in producing paintings like this, but being very clear that you don't want to see yourself as an activist or someone that's in any way political? Where, how would you characterize these paintings, then?
Bart Was Not Here 1:43:56
It's a record of 2021 for me, because the first day they they took power of the whole country, the military did, I reacted with my own artwork. So it's, for me, it's like a diary. Like, all these artworks in my series called seeing read. It's like a compilation of everything I've done this year. All these artworks were made in different months. And it's not. You by looking at these artworks do know that, how things elevated and how things got out of hand. Like at first we, I said this obey. And then I was advocating for the workers to go on a strike with the gods and prophets. They were protesting. And then it turned into a Molotov cocktail. And then it turned into a The answer the call one word, the kid is born, holding a bow and arrow, and there's people holding up shields and there's barricades and stuff. And then it turned into an exploding military truck, which is really happened. Yeah. You know, I started for me. For me, it's not even a Fermi's thing. It's just, I was born into a dictatorship. And I lived through a temporary era, I lived through things in error. And I lived through five years of democracy. And then now it's me on like, error. So it's, I live through four rings, and three of them are dictatorships. And it feels really personal to me, like, how dare you do this to me? Because I didn't ask to be born in Burma, to Muslim family to get all this bullshit I got during the childhood and go to, you know, the worst public school you can imagine. And it's, it's a vendetta, it's it? For me, it's Kill Bill.
Host 1:46:20
Right, do you reference how some of the artwork you've done has been for a broader audience, but some has been very localized and just pulling on references that only perhaps people in your community would really get the depth of. And that's also what a meme is, we had a whole episode exploring Burmese memes and the power of Burmese memes and unpacking them in ways that foreign audiences don't quite get. So I'm wondering if you can give an example of some kind of artwork that you did that, that was really designed more for a local audience and help to unpack that for the foreign listeners here.
Bart Was Not Here 1:46:52
I think the exploding truck and the Dinah Dinah was was the one with the typography that says, My MLA, we don't bend we don't break
Host 1:47:05
right back into my mind, too. Yeah,
Bart Was Not Here 1:47:09
I saw a photo of a little toy placed on a ledge in Sanchaung, I think, when they were protesting, and I, even before that, I used to tie down in my artwork before I made a huge sculpture in Yangon. And I wanted to revisit it. And I wanted to put protest gear and COVID Mask, and the construction head on a good day now. And I made it and I think it's it's like a little cultural thing where only Burmese people would get an exploding military truck. It happened in a dumb way. And I think it was like, two days after I arrived in Paris. And it felt so good. Like, they they did so many unspeakable things to us. And they didn't let us sleep. They didn't let us live in the day. They didn't let us live in the night. And there were so many missions before that particular incident. But that truck explosion was really symbolic. Especially to Jang where you, you cannot come outside anymore. These these no military people and soldiers. You cannot come outside anymore. The street is ours. The streets are ours. If you stepped foot on it, it's your choice. You're dead meat out here. And and it communicated so well. And the imagery is so perfect. I did it. And I think it's more for the general audience who really remember the video footage and the other you know, story that surrounds the incident.
Host 1:49:01
And what was the what reception or reaction did you get from that local audience?
Bart Was Not Here 1:49:05
If people loved it people were so exuberant like you know, it's like it's almost like a battle call. We exploded their truck and now we're hitting back at there's this one phrase that no one gonna forget no one's gonna forget that it , a bunch of soldiers, or police shouted back , who wants to die step outside to the unarmed protester. And people never forget it. And people to this day are calling back that statement whenever we kill one of them.
Host 1:49:55
I think this is so powerful too because something like this this This picture and the this painting and the reaction that goes with it. It's unpacking layers and layers of the torture and terror and oppression that you have faced growing up there. And that this is a moment where the bully gets punched in the face. And that feeling is impossible to describe. And yet for an outsider, there has been this kind of sickening international response of not helping, not supporting just issuing statements. And the here's the people trying to fight for these western values that we espouse all the time. And yet, we're just leaving them alone. And then when there's when finally they realize Burmese realize that they're finally truly alone and have no one but themselves to defend and with nothing but what they can find on the street and what's in their heads. They, they try to think of how they can defend themselves. And when they do then that international community then starts heaping criticism on them and starts accusing some of these groups and activists that have formed as being the ones that they are the ones inciting the violence and worsening the violence and such and so I think this particular image can really highlight that divide between many brummies Perhaps feeling that the the bully who was tormented me and my parents and my grandparents and you know, everything going all the way back, they finally got punched in the face, whereas someone that doesn't have that emotional tie, or that that context can feel like Oh, isn't like this is this is loss of life, they're celebrating? Is it? Isn't this a terrible thing? And, you know, this is this is why things are gonna, you know, this is one of the reasons why things are going to start to devolve and get worse, because they, you know, they're now doing the same thing the military is. And so there could be this kind of this confused, divergent opinion based on people not really understanding the context and that extent.
Bart Was Not Here 1:51:52
Yeah, exactly. I think it's just a matter of like, if you didn't really go through it for decades and decades, you will never understand. I think it just comes down to that. Yeah, because we always talk about fighting back, and we always preach about, you know, you shouldn't just sit down and take it. You shouldn't just shut up and take it. And they, they were essentially asking us to take it, but don't shut up. Just, you know, keep asking for help keep asking for awareness while you die slowly. And I don't think that's the way they would react if anything was forced upon them.
Host 1:52:45
No, and it's not the way they have reacted when things have been forced upon them, you know, the Nazi occupation of France is not that long ago, and the French Resistance, they had to do some pretty brutal and awful things to try to regain their freedom from that tyranny. And now, later generations in France and other countries don't quite have that historical memory. You know, I was just listening to a podcast, a historical podcast a few weeks ago, about the French Revolution of the French Resistance during World War Two. And one of the historians made a comment that was like, Really, when the French Resistance was at its peak, the the normal French citizens had three choices of what they could become, they could be a hero, they could be a coward, or they could be a bad guy. And that was it. That was you. There was no other option of what you could become. It was one of those three, and this historian was saying quite vulnerably, like, I don't know what I would have done, I don't know who I would have been, and you don't know until you're in that situation. And so, you know, what, if we were to go back, and of course, there's no social media back in the day. So there's so many little stories that are missed that are captured here. But I am sure that the French Resistance did some terrible, terrible things, to to have to fight back and innocent people were probably harmed. And there were probably people that were not innocent that were harmed, but the way that they were harmed, the resistance fighters who let it out were traumatized and horrified by what they had to do. But they they were facing a Nazi occupation. And they wanted their freedom back and everyone had a choice if they wanted to. To be a hero. And being a hero does not mean that you only do noble things. It's it's much more murky and complicated than that, or being a coward or a bad guy. And that's, that's probably pretty close to the situation. We find ourselves there now.
Bart Was Not Here 1:54:30
Yeah, you're exactly right. Yeah, it's true.
Host 1:54:34
Yeah, and I think we,
Bart Was Not Here 1:54:35
I love these three choices. I think I, I can make an artwork out of it. I want to become exactly, you get credited.
Host 1:54:51
No, that's cool. That's great. I'm joking, but it'll be it'll be great to see what your artistic mind does with that. And I think that one of the things that's really infuriating to me Is that we have these historical examples that are not historical, like hundreds of years ago, they're in some cases, they're not that far back of when Western democracy was threatened and what people had to do in order to survive. And, and they it was ugly people don't like to talk about it because it's historical, you could say it's what needed to happen. But, but it is what happened. And now that and I think that that, so much of the world is just not awakened to the truth that this is these historical things that have played out in our in societies is what's going on right now. And so we can sit in privilege or safety, and be able to pontificate or give advice or judge based on a situation that we've never had in our own lives. And the only reason that we have this level of comfort to be able to speak in this way, is that people before us, whether it was one or two or three generations have done some really ugly and messy things to be able to set up the society that we now enjoy. So, you know, to not come without understanding is just really unfair.
Bart Was Not Here 1:56:03
Yeah, exactly. And a lot of sacrifices as well, a lot of shady stuff. And at the same time, a lot of a lot of sacrifices as well. And more than that, I think, the the old generations, I think they they knew what was important, more than we do right now, I think we have we have come come to the point in the timeline of the world that there's too much luxury, too much luxury of time, too much luxury of it, entertainment and distractions, and so many things to get carried away with that we don't really we are we're not clear about what should comes for what should come first, in our list of priorities. And I think we these guys, back in the days, they had so little stuff that they knew what their priorities were. And now we're, we're more it's like we need like a spiritual, Ritalin or spiritual enroll, to get our things in order.
Host 1:57:33
So in the kind of art that you've been doing before the coup and that you're you continue to do now, you would say at the outset, when I asked you to describe your humor, you referenced how you were you were unable to do that, because then it wouldn't be humor anymore. If I was to describe your humor in one way it would be irreverent irreverence is what great hip hop artists do great stand up comedians, it is certainly what you have named yourself after Bart Simpson is the king of irreverence. It's one of it's one of the groundbreaking irreverent satires that has come in our society. And so your your, I've seen in your style, just a habit of going towards irreverence, which can also be translated into parody and satire. So and that's how you're continuing your commentary, since the coup is is a kind of satire or parody or irreverence. Why do you think these values are important to have, particularly at this time?
Bart Was Not Here 1:58:31
I think, to me, what I believe is humor is a weapon and to make fun of someone hurts more than to kill someone. If they get triggered, or they get offended, that the military or their supporters if they get offended, or they get triggered by what I do, I think I win. And the worst they can do me as killed me, my artwork is going to live on it's the internet, someone's going to save it. And it's, it's exactly like V for Vendetta on my artworks, our Guy Fawkes mask ideas are bulletproof if you cannot you can kill the man but you cannot kill the man that's behind the mess Yeah, so I think it's, it's the idea and the audacity to go again against them and to test them and to poke fun at them, instead of treating them like a formidable opponent of opponent instead of treating them like a formidable opponent and instead Have treating them seriously. Although they're serious, they mean business, they will kill you, they will torture you. But at the same time, they're not smart. They only finished like, second third grade education. They don't have enough knowledge there, that the way they act are parallel to animals. So you don't give them the respect that they want so much so that you treat them lesser than you or lesser than everything you know. And that's what brings them that that's what makes the mystique of tomorrow disappear, because there's, they're these little insecure all men, deteriorating old men that look like screwed up, you know, a lot of wrinkles and shit. These these guys if they're insecure little men, and I want to hit them. At that, that spot. Yeah,
Host 2:01:13
that's a great answer. And it reminds me of an interview I had a couple days ago with Kobe when who's the producer of the new Dick Council rap against Giunta album and one of the things I commented on and listening to that was how they had used battle rap techniques to cut down and speak against the generals. And I was saying I was really stunned by seeing this because in the in historically, the Burmese leader is someone he's a he's there by divine right, he has these great armies and this karma that will outlast anyone else, because that was how that's how he's able to get to that top. And there's this this great religious combined with political fear of lower plebian peasant society, not not only standing up and speaking against the leader like that, but even having a thought against someone like that can be dangerous because they're just embedded and endowed with so much natural and spiritual power. And, and that's certainly a kind of conditioning that's still there to this day. And so it was really jarring to an effective to to see these younger generation Z, including women's and non Buddhists that were participate in even non Bomar language to have like a kitchen song where they are they they are just disrespecting just publicly absolutely disrespecting their leader and ridiculing him and minimizing him. And this is something that in this kind of fashion, I've never seen this, you know, just as just as just brutal as this and just what that disrespect must mean for an institution that sees this, this level of of respect and even kind of outer worldly respect as something that that has never touched before. And now it's being much more than touched.
Bart Was Not Here 2:03:07
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. If it was 10 years ago, we wouldn't have this kind of content or music or imagery at all. We wouldn't have something else which is like in its own right, really powerful and strong. But you wouldn't have this amount this quantity of stuff that we have right now. Big council I there's two songs that I like one's called never forget. And I know this. My absolute favorite. It's the last song on the album called lunette, which means you it's really, really good. Yeah. Thanks, guys.
Host 2:03:48
That's exactly what Colin said, when I asked him his favorites, he referenced the exact same to
Bart Was Not Here 2:03:54
filter like, lyrically. Almost perfect. And it's and it hits all the points and sums up the timeline as well.
Host 2:04:05
So did you find that previous protest movements I know you weren't necessarily around or at least cocky? I wasn't life for that. But do you? Do you know anything about how they use art or humor or ridicule or criticism and ways that are going on? No.
Bart Was Not Here 2:04:20
I know about cartoon strips. I was around for 2007 Saffron revolution. I actually saw a killing as well. When I was in sixth grade. I was in my class, taking a test, probably geography test or something or mess during daytime in sixth grade, and my school is on Alaung Pya pagoda road. It's the contest so you can actually see two si e the main road from my class and like my class is in the corner of the building. And we heard about bunch of chants like the Buddhist chants, metta, from our class, and we knew that the monks were marching with the flags and all that. And we were glued to the window. We were looking at the scene and there was a batch of soldiers heading towards them, and they met face to face. And then out of nowhere, another batch of soldiers popped out from behind the protesters. I think they were inside the office compound that's now a max office, a max company office, and they just popped out from that compound and they sandwich the protesters. And it was almost like a cartoon scene where you know, when two cartoon characters fight, it's just a ball of dust, and you see the fist and you see the feet and all kinds of exclamations. It was just like, that was a ball of smoke. And when it's clear, I saw a pool of blood ropes, Monk robes, slippers. And more blood. That's it. Yeah, that's crazy. And at that time. At that time, a lot of people were listening to VOA and BBC, Burmese, Burmese programs, through radio and bootleg satellite dishes, dishes. And I remember mean, watching DVB every day, because they they only aired like, one or two programs for the whole day. And it's the protest updates. So they, they kept airing it. And I watched that every day. And then there was like the first time questioning authority for me, not authority, I've always gone against authority all my life. But that was like the first time realizing that this is not the normal kind of government that I was living in. So before that I was, you know, during that time, I was sixth grade. So before that, I didn't mind any of it at all. And I didn't know any of it at all. And I didn't read the newspaper. And that was the moment and I was I was introduced to the idea of, if you don't like someone who's ruling you, you can fight back. Or you can ask for better or, you know, you can test. And that was like a wake up call. Yeah.
Host 2:07:53
That's incredibly powerful. I want to close with a final question of looking at the role of the artist in the present moment in Myanmar and ask why it is you think that the military has so much hatred or fear, or some combination of the two in terms of artists, you know, they're killing poets, they're arresting actors, the some of the greatest hip hop stars are underground, and the list just goes on and on, you're in exile. Why are artists been so targeted by this regime?
Bart Was Not Here 2:08:30
I think it's, it's information, but I think the general population will not follow a newsman, or a headline from a journal, you know, they, they, they will react to it however they want. But I think artists can package it so well, well, to the point where they can actually coach you how to react and how, how to process these emotions and give you somewhat of an answer. And it's not just art, or politics, or this kind of revolution that uses art in that kind of way. I think, religion packages. Religion is powerful as it is only because of art. Because let's just say Christianity, right? Its literature, its art, its architecture, and its general ambience, and performance, performance of a priest performance of a pastor and songs, hymns. So, religion uses are to package itself into the zeitgeist. And I think it works in other things as well. It's it's how products use art and entertainment from to market their products. It's how politicians like you know Have people call it pandering, like how politicians pander to people using influencers and celebrities and stuff like that. So the these are tools that are at your disposal. And you can use it as a propaganda, you can use it as anything because art is art is. So you can apply anything you want to that and you can create a path for people to think, or people to walk. And they, they really fear that path, and they really fear the ones who are creating the pet, because that had lead to their grave, right?
Host 2:10:48
And if that's the way the regime is responding to artists flipping the question the other way, what do you feel is the role of the artist at the moment in Myanmar?
Bart Was Not Here 2:10:57
For me, for me, personally, I can talk into perspective, art in general, I think it's needed. It's not just during a protest, it's needed all the time. Like God is good all the time, art is good all the time for art is needed all the time. And so it's not just for the protest, and the movement and the revolution. But for me, personally, I use my art to, I sell my art, and I fund whoever I want to fund. And I think it's the best way for me to contribute. Because first I'm creating artwork, and raises awareness, and it consoles my people. And it makes people it helps people process, this experience. And on top of it, I can take that artwork, and I can sell it and becomes a fund. And then I send that money off to you know, people who are in the field. So it's a win win for me.
Host 2:12:02
That's great. Thank you. So thank you so much for all of this time that you've been able to. It's been great. It's been really great. Before we close, is there anything I haven't touched on that you want to get your voice out on?
Bart Was Not Here 2:12:15
Yeah, I think I think that's about it. We we've talked for so long. And it's amazing because we touched everything. I think we missed movies, right? We talked about comedy and music and art and we missed movies.
Host 2:12:29
So you're the scene from godfather to America.
Bart Was Not Here 2:12:32
Oh yeah, yeah.
Host 2:12:35
But if there's another movie you want to plug and then go square
Bart Was Not Here 2:12:39
as I don't want to plug anything. I just like talking about the stuff these are my little Bibles that I go to so
Host 2:12:49
yeah, I guess if we before we close if we do just mention even cinema I'm just thinking in my mind, is there anything I want to say about that and the only thing that came to mind it's not so much cinema but it's um it's just I don't know what you've been watching or consuming since the coup I don't know if you've been watching or consuming anything. I know a lot of Burmese outside the country I've spoken to simply can't engage in any kind of music or or or cinema or anything right now. But I I've had some reactions I found myself at one point, watching the second second or third season of Handmaid's Tale and just breaking down in tears at one scene, there was a scene I just I just completely started crying, I had to stop it. And it was because it was it was showing a an act of freedom in a totalitarian society. That was as we've talked about punching the bully in the face. And, and it was this profound moment where the character was was kind of hopelessly asserting her freedom against a state that had had pushed it down. And it was it was so interesting for me because it was kind of just out of any, you know, any movie where a dramatic thing happens. And you're just kind of watching as a passive viewer. I recognize that that was a normal reaction, and yet what, given my proximity of what I'm doing and the stories I know, and the friends I'm supporting, what they're going through that and I'm even getting goosebumps remembering and talking about it that that that act as it was depicted on the show was just just I just broke down what knowing the impact of what it felt like for that character to be trying to assert freedom in a situation that's suffocating.
Bart Was Not Here 2:14:35
Yeah, that's powerful. That's crazy. I wasn't able to watch a lot of stuff since the crew as well. But when I got here, I jumped back to innovate. And I started watching succession on a trio is pretty cool. Yeah, I really love that show. It's well, we're in agreement. Yeah. And I watched dune the other day, but that's about it. Yeah, dunes really good dune dune as an almost like people. It hasn't ended yet. But I think in the end, it's just going to be a parallel of you know, people putting these Burmese monks in a on a pedestal and they're arranged they're abusing their power and I think it's it's going to be some sort of parallel to dune and Burmese as well. Mm
Host 2:15:32
hmm great. Okay, well, we fit cinema on TV and there too. So. But yeah, this this has been such an enjoyable conversation for me and I've learned so much and I'm really interested to see what art you create next. If anything in this conversation and inspire certain directions or anything along the the news events or media or anything else that comes I'll definitely be watching.
Bart Was Not Here 2:15:59
Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate this. And I really enjoy talking to you for hours and I think I can go for like two more.
Host 2:16:36
After today's discussion, it should be clear to everyone just how dire the situation is in Myanmar. We are doing our best to shine a light on the ongoing crisis. And we thank you for taking the time to listen. If you found today's talk of value, please consider passing it along to friends in your network. And because our nonprofit is now in a position to transfer funds directly to the protest movement, please also consider letting others know that there is now a way to give that supports the most vulnerable and to those who are specially impacted by this organized state terror. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are resisting the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form, currency or transfer method. Every cent goes immediately and directly to funding those local communities who need it most. donations go to support such causes as a civil disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, and the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies. Or if you prefer, you can earmark your donation to go directly to the guest you just heard on today's show. In order to facilitate this donation work, we have registered a new nonprofit called Better Burma for this express purpose. Any donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is now directed to this fund. Alternatively, you can visit our new better Burma website, which is better Burma one word.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to those respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org. In all cases, that's better Burma one word spelled b e t t e r b u r Ma. If you would like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration
2:18:56
No, no