Transcript: Episode #89: Depicting a Golden Kingdom
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Brian Perkins, which appeared on February 5, 2022. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:39
Thank you for taking the time to check out the Insight Myanmar podcast. If you like what you hear, we'd be very grateful if you would consider rating reviewing and or sharing this podcast, every little bit of feedback helps. Also, be sure to subscribe to the Insight Myanmar podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever else you get your podcasts. If our feed is not in your podcast player, please let us know and we'll assure it can be offered there. We're happy to bring you the following interview with a guest who's connected to an exciting upcoming event the Burma spring benefit Film Festival. It will run from February 1 to the 13th and feature a wide range of films documentaries, shorts, animations and panel discussions. Nowhere else can one find so many diverse forms of media connected Myanmar that are ready to be streamed in the privacy of one's home. While there's no charge to log in and watch these features to your heart's content, the film organizers kindly request that viewers consider contributing in a donation of any amount. All the proceeds will be going towards humanitarian missions in Myanmar. In their own words, the events organizers right. These provide humanitarian assistance in Chin Chin, Corinne cranny and Shan state's por ethnic areas most severely impacted by food insecurity and emergency shelter needs. Support will also go to freelance media and nonviolent human rights activist forced into Thailand. Know that your contributions will make a difference in Myanmar through enabling dedicated local organizations to courageously carry on grassroots work in a time of darkness. So if you're encouraged by what you hear from today's guest, we encourage you to take advantage of this special opportunity and take in a variety of Film Festival events. You can search for Burma spring benefit Film Festival to learn more or follow the links on our website for now let's get into today's interview now more. To do in the army and that was a clip from the feature film golden kingdom that was made by the filmmaker Brian Perkins, who's my guest today on insight Myanmar podcasts. This is also a film that will be featured in the upcoming Burma spring benefit Film Festival. And we're gonna chat a bit about the making of this film, which is quite unique. So Brian, thanks so much for joining us on insight Myanmar podcast.
Brian Perkins 04:10
Oh, well, thanks for having me on the show. It's great to be here.
Host 04:13
Yes, let's get right into the film at first and for those listeners that haven't watched the film or haven't heard of it, can you give a brief synopsis of the plot and what happens in the film?
Brian Perkins 04:26
Well, the film is really a pretty simple tale about structured around for child novice monks living in a monastery in the mountains of Myanmar in in Shan State, although that's not explicitly stated in the film. And when the abbot the sandhar, who's keeping an eye on them, and training them has to leave. They're they're forced to take care of themselves and a war breaks out while he's gone and they kind of have to learn how to survive in this new world that's approved And infringing on the monastery and one of the boys ultimately has to choose to go out into the world to try to help the others. And I won't spoil what happens for your listeners who are gonna watch the film.
Host 05:16
Right. So as you mentioned, it's a pretty simple plotline that you choose, but the way it's filmed and the evocative nature of the scenes and the way life plays out is really something to be to behold. And really, it's something quite unique, which we'll get into. But before we do, can you share a bit about what motivated you too want to come to me and Mar and make a film about for young Buddhist novices at a monastery?
Brian Perkins 05:43
Yeah, I mean, so I, what I wanted to do for my first film was an American film, a story set in Oregon, actually, period. And I'd written that script. And I'd had a fair call, like, I've gotten into some Sundance lab or something. And I had some some space ahead of me, and I decided in my grumpiness that I was just going to go to Asia. And so I still had planned on doing that film. And I bought a ticket to China. And I had no return ticket, and I was traveling around a lot. And around this time, Myanmar had just opened up, you know, this was in 2012. And so I decided to go to Myanmar. And I wasn't planning on making a film or anything. But I went on a trek into the mountains, and I'd been meditating. I was no stranger to Buddhism or meditation practices. And so I ended up at this monastery on a track and you can't get there by car. Now, I believe you can but the time you had to hike in up the mountain like a day, and I spent some time there and the story, I'm just meeting those children. I saw it, what would happen if the ad that wasn't here, and they were just living so independently in a way, because many of them are gone at that point in the Uber zine who normally takes care of the kids wasn't there. But it just sparked this narrative idea in my head, like what would happen if these children were left alone. And it just, you know, those those who write stories or make movies or anything like that any kind of creative practice, you know, when you have an idea, and it's the idea, it just came to me. And it almost emerged fully formed, like Athena from Zeus his head in a strange way. And the next day, it just kept coming and coming in, I asked my guide, to talk to the abbot to translate and ask if we could potentially shoot a film there. And he asked him, and he said, Yeah, you could do it. And so I told him, I was like, I'm going to be back. And I'm going to shoot this film. And I ended up going to India and lots of other places. But that was the original spark for the film. And then of course, I had to get money to make it. Things like that.
Host 08:11
Right? Yeah. So then you fulfilled your promise, you came back to Myanmar, and you shot a film on that very location that it's so enchanted you and where this story had manifested in your mind? What was it like at that time? I know the film came out in 2015. I'm not sure when it was filmed. I'm just trying to trace back Myanmar's development into its its semi democratic phase and the freedoms that were there. But what was it like when you came back to try to shoot the film? What kinds of challenges did you have in even being able to, to carry out that that mission of making a film there?
Brian Perkins 08:48
I mean, the challenges began even before I arrived, because it you know, if you watch the film, there's nothing explicitly you don't really you see soldiers, but you don't know who they belong to. They could be from militia, they could be from the government army, you have no idea. I wanted to kind of give a perspective from of war from a child's viewpoint. You know, they're not necessarily understanding the politics of what's going on. They just know that these external forces that are violent are arriving, and it's causing chaos in their world. And so I tried to, it wasn't even a choice to censor myself or anything like that, because I wanted to create that kind of bubbled consciousness of a child in a way so it wasn't even directly discussing the government but I still knew that there would be suspicious of anything. And even before I even arrived, when I got to Bangkok to get my visa, I found out that I had been blacklisted from entering the country. And at that point, I understood that this this guy had met my previous trip who had been asking me all these questions about what airport I was flying from and things like that. I was like, Why is he asking so many questions? Somebody from Myanmar was actually an informant for the government. And had, you know, basically been feeding them information. And so by the time I went to get my visa, I was on a blacklist, and we couldn't enter into the country.
Host 10:33
But if I could just ask, how did you find out that you were blacklisted? Were you explicitly told in an embassy that you you were on a blacklist?
Brian Perkins 10:41
Well, I was on a list and I had a basically a fixer in Thailand, heading that who worked with the embassy, often and so the one of the embassy employees are told him that. So what happened was the night he then had to prefer not, you know, not to go into names. But I was then invited by someone who was working for the peace process in the government, I was invited to come to the country for a workshop in quotations. And they, we asked for a month to be there. And they gave me 10 days, I believe. And so I was able to enter into the country with that. And then make my way through, I did some scouting first and worked on the script and the translation and things like that. But yeah, I had, I only had 10 days before I was staying there illegally. And so then I stayed over my visa for another five weeks, potentially. Which was its own kind of adventure getting out. But yeah, that is so even before I stepped foot in Myanmar for the project, I knew it was going to be quite challenging. And luckily, no one else on the crew had any problem getting a visa because they were giving tourist visas no problem at the time, you know, it was just me who had been singled out because I foolishly had a naively had had trusted some way, you know, which, you know, you live you learn about what information you give, and what what times you give it and things like that. So but that was my, that was a good lesson, though, I think even before starting to shoot the film, because there was a lot of challenges that came along those lines later on during the production that we had to deal with. And that kind of gave me a bit of the tenor of everything that was going to come. Because, you know, also I think, at the time, you're asking about the the feeling in the country. And I feel like at the time, especially internationally, there was a sense of triumphalism, you know, good had good had conquered evil, light light had conquered dark. And, you know, that's not obviously you live there a very long time. You it's far more complicated than that. And you understood when you're there, like there were people telling me, Well, the military, they just the generals, they just swapped out their uniforms. For suits, I would often be told, you know, they're still there, everything was structured the same. But they just, you know, kind of changed, change their outfits, so a little more acceptable. So yeah, that was that was the beginning of before I even started shooting anything. And it didn't, it did not get easier. Let's just put it that way.
Host 14:02
So you came into the country under these false pretenses of in order to skirt around them and be able to get to the right place and shoot in the correct way even though he didn't have the correct visa for it. In terms of the technical issue of actually bringing that equipment over or acquiring it in country and then going to the rural Shan countryside to set up and film How did that part go?
Brian Perkins 14:28
So it was it was a mix. Most of the equipment came from Germany actually. Because my my cinematographers this wonderful German woman named Bella Harbin, who for whatever reasons, my first film on decided that she was going to take a chance on me and go on this crazy project and so a lot of the equipment the camera the lenses, like all of that stuff is steady cam came from Germany on via VHF air freight, to Bangkok, and then we kind of piecemeal that out and distributed amongst the rest of the crew, which was not large it was six people. And they brought it on domestic, I mean, not domestic, but um, just commercial flights into Myanmar spread out across and they're kind of asking them like, what is this, like, oh, it's it's fishing fishing gear, you know, there's like long, long bags and things and they didn't really understand what it was. So we were able to get the gear in that way. And then we also got the resource things from Thailand. And then just a few basic things from young gun that we brought up. And then a couple crew members or a few in the electrical department and also grip, and just general PA, we heard some local people as well. So and then we had, we all met at that point, I had been up and up in the, in both on bygone and near in the lake and town G and so we all kind of run a food and then went up to the mountains together. And that literally involved putting gear, slinging it across bamboo pole poles and hiking up the mountain at a certain point, because there's no way to get there because it was the end of the rainy season. So even a, like a four by four truck wouldn't have been able to get up there. So that was that was pretty interesting. And once we arrived you know, there's no electrical system up there. So we had to build our own electrical system to give ourselves power for the lights for the computers for all the backup because it was shot on digital, of course, all of that. So that was the whole thing like finding a good generator and my sound guy was complaining the whole time as a as a podcaster. You'll understand the challenges of having things quiet. And you know, we we got as good of a generator as we could source and Tongji. But it still was so loud. It was not some hot, quiet Honda generator, that's just whisper quiet. It was so loud that they had to build a pit for it. And with enough air, so it didn't die. And it was it was pretty intense. So yeah, we basically moved into the monastery, we're sleeping on the floor. Obviously, there's no running water or anything like that. And we live with them as we we shot the film.
Host 17:47
Right? So speaking of those people that you were living with the people in the film, I hesitate to call them actors, because that was my next question. There's five monastics depicted. There's the four novices and the one say it out, and then there's maybe half a dozen other lay people of different stripes that they come in contact with at different moments in the film, of maybe a dozen or so characters total, it seems like of those dozen, or perhaps a few more that were were in the film, how many of them were actors, and how many of them were just doing all of this the first time?
Brian Perkins 18:25
Well, everyone was doing it the first time. And it was just shine Ted saw who plays the the main novice going in, which is otter, who was not a novice living at the monastery. He was from a neighboring village. And he was actually inducted as a novice though, during the shooting. So in the film, when you see him getting his hair cut in the ceremony, that's actually his, his ceremony becoming a Korean. And he did, he lived with them, he did everything, as you know, it's very common for, for a boy of that age to do it anyway. So it wasn't some strange thing. But he did it during the shooting of the film. So he was had some time to to understand how to do things and and follow all the, all the different routines of monastic life and what have you, but everyone else for three other novices were novices and they still are monks. They were living there at the time, the say a DA was the se da of, of that monastery and the incidental characters were all just villagers that I'd cast and we'd work with them that way. No one had ever been on camera before. And the boys except for Chen Shanta who lived with his family and a norm like not in the monastery normally, they had maybe seen A couple of films on a portable DVD player of some kung fu films that's about it. So they've never really seen any movie before. And they certainly hadn't seen Facebook and social media. And so I was really interested in seeing if I could capture a certain kind of performance from them because especially in the West, I would say, oftentimes, you turn a camera on a kid and they that kind of innocence or, you know, just artlessness disappears, because they've been trained since they were infants. I'm taking a picture or we're filming you. And this is what people who are getting filmed should behave like. And oftentimes working with children, well, any actor is also many adults, but children will kind of put on a different persona, trying to be something else. And what I really wanted to get out was the simplicity and relative timelessness of their existence, that wasn't impinged upon media upon by media at the time, so
Host 21:13
And how did you find the performance that you got from them? When you turn the camera on? What how did they respond to that?
Brian Perkins 21:20
Well, there is a lot of movie magic there, I would have to give credit to my editor, Sebastian Vonda and who's sitting in Berlin right now, I presume still, because we had to construct the performance in a lot of ways from the kids because they had never acted before they barely knew how, like seen a film. So to try to explain the the disciplines of shooting and repeating the same things over again was it was quite difficult with with some of the boys. And so we really had to do a lot of takes and draw, you know, from here and there and everywhere and kind of come to construct a more continuous performance. Now let's shine Ted, I would say he was just a natural, as soon as the camera like went on, he was in character. And he was nailing it. Like, I've never really seen someone who had never acted before be so so good, inhabiting the character and being conscious of when the cameras on and then as soon as we went to cut, he was just goofing around and joking and everything like that. And that was really interesting as well, just to see the that some people, even this, this kid from this village, had this natural ability within him. And it was really fun to play with that and help him discover it and build it out. But you know, it's like with any time when you work with kids, it was just it was a little more challenging, because of their lack of total lack of experience and also language at the time, they like to speak pretty decent Burmese. But they that was not their first language. You know, their first language is Shawn. So already I'm trying to communicate with them. And what's their second language that they've been learning in school, not their native tongue. So it was difficult, but we played a lot of games, you know, I tried to make it as fun as I could for them. And you know, you have to there's challenges with children but then working with children with there's also just so much wonder and and benefit that you can get from working with them because they see the world in a different way than than us jaded adults do. And so just being able to tap into that and help help them express it as is, for me is the way to work with kids when when they're acting to really turn it into kind of a fun game where they can explore their imagination and kind of transport themselves.
Host 24:10
Yeah, well let's take another listen to a clip from Golden kingdom here. So that was another clip from your feature film golden kingdom. And one of the thoughts I had when I was watching it, I guess somewhere between like 20 or 30 minutes in I found myself getting little confused about certain aspects of how the story was developing, such as we were the villages exactly next to them that they're going to and why are they going there seeming to be going in this direction? And why did they say it I go away, we had to leave? What was that purpose? And why did this person suddenly come? And over time, I started to realize, wait a second, this is actually not that important. These are, this is the there's parts as the film goes deeper into it, it takes on something of a dreamscape kind of vibe, at least to me, and starts to combine the reality with the fantasy with the spiritual with the superstitious and one is not quite sure, what which plane you're in, as you're watching things in the film doesn't really help to correct or destabilize where you are, in a certain point, you've just mentioned just now that even the question of when it takes place, or, or which military the the one soldier who comes in is a part of that this is also up in air somewhat? And so, you know, in some sense, like these questions of when, where, who, why what are unanswered in the film, these primary situational questions of, of what's happening to who and what's the result? And where is it that these, it's obviously very much rooted in a Burmese Buddhist monastery or, say, a sham Buddhist monastery in Shan State. And you get to know the characters, but these other many of these other things are somewhat floating. And I think, at least for me, as a viewer, as I watched it, to be able to, once I realized what was going on to let go of that, that need or that concern, and let myself fall into the different vignettes of the different people passing through and the not to understand objectively what was happening, but that this is how the protagonist was understanding what was happening, sometimes not understanding that it plunged you into this into this energetic feeling of what the characters were going through, even as a might not make total sense to them. And these are just my subjective feelings as a viewer that I'm relaying. I'm wondering, from your standpoint, as a filmmaker, what might resonate with you or what your objective was, as you were looking to bring the plot and the stories and the people in the places together and what you were trying to create?
Brian Perkins 27:37
Yeah, I mean, I think you're, you're touching on a lot of things that some people can find frustrating about the film. But also, so many people find very rewarding about the film. And I found when I was traveling with it a lot like people really wanted answers. They wanted to know, well, specifically, if we want to get to the to the when of it all. They really wanted to know what we, you know, what did this depict? When did what did this mean? Was this this x conflict with these people, and at this year? And we're totally beyond that, right? And at the time, I would say, No, I don't know, I can't answer that question. Because for me, it was a very, it was archetypal, in a way, the conflict and the children and all of it the story and in a way that emerged to me archetypal Lee. So to, to ground it, to tie it to a specific moment or specific event, seem to be doing it a disservice, because I wanted it to be able to speak to different moments or different situations, which unfortunately, is the case now. One we're finding we're back in the same, or it's slightly different, but in a situation where these kinds of things are happening in Myanmar once again. But I found it was very interesting to me that I found that people really wanted almost to comfort themselves to feel a certain surety. Well, this is what this is about. And this is where it was at this time. And now we're in the happy times. And Suchi is in power, and everything's good, and the good guys won. And let's do a victory lap. And as someone who spent not nearly as much time in Myanmar as you have, but I'd spent a decent amount and that time I'd spent I tried to go as deep as I could. I understood that the those facile narratives weren't weren't really going to pertain for Myanmar, and that the road was going to be a little bit more complicated and I didn't want to provide just a retrospective look how bad it was back then and now, we're in a great spot. So I bet I was just surprised that how much people wanted to fix it at a specific moment or a conflict, the so a, that was very interesting to me, and then be the narrative in general, I would say, what I wanted to do, I just didn't want to show up and be give kind of a Western take on what was going there, that would be a huge disservice. And also, I wasn't super interested in that, why am I going to bring classical, let's say, Hollywood structure, or classical Western narrative structure, to this topic, these characters, this environment, it just, it doesn't make sense for me. So what I did was I started exploring, you know, Buddhist folktales, I started exploring, like, local Burmese folktales, along with, let's say, the Giada. Cuz, you know, things like that. And constructing the narrative more around that were in a lot of those, you don't have a BNC were at C, or x three, the bad guy gets his just desserts. And then the story's over. It's understood that in some way, the bad guy or whoever is going to get their just desserts in another lifetime, that the that the karma, the karma is going to be distributed into two different reincarnations. And so that radically destabilizes what we consider to be what we're what we think we know about narrative, if we're going across different lifetimes. And so I was really interested in playing with that, and playing with the different narrative forms that you find in these folktales. And also like the Buddha's birth tales in Jeddah, and things like that. So that was my goal as well was not to give some, although it's been called neorealist, the film. And then also a lot of people think it's a documentary when they first hear about it. And I say, No, it's not a documentary, because there's ghosts in it. You know, I wanted we we shot it like a documentary in a way. Because we're didn't have the resources to do otherwise. And we use the real people and things like that. But I wanted to construct this more archetypal dream type narrative that did service to the storytelling form, in Myanmar, and also neighboring countries, of course, not just come in with, you know, the red, white and blue, American, you know, Hollywood ending, happy ending, not that that's not a happy ending, but it's an open ending, as you know, which also frustrates a lot of people. But for me, that was the true ending to the film. Because everything doesn't wrap up neatly in a lot of these tales. So as a student of Buddhism, you you understand this. So that I'd say that was the primary driver of that feeling and that kind of narrative tactic in the movie. And yeah, I would say also the meditative moments in it can kind of create not a trance, I don't want to say but a certain tone for the film that allow you to, hopefully, sit through your discomfort, just like when you're sitting on the cushion, at first, you know, and then quiet the mind a bit and then really enter into the film and the story and the experience of those boys.
Host 33:52
And you're touching upon some aspects of like authenticity, you know, authenticity of Buddhist practice authenticity of Burmese culture authenticity of the Shen remote Shan monastery village. And that was also something that struck me quite a bit. And that's a departure from other movies that try to other Western movies that tried to exotic fi, the Orient, as they would call it them, and they're certainly, you know, look at Japan, Korea, China, Thailand, but certainly there's been a long list of Hollywood movies that have come in and try to bring a Burmese character to the west or a Western character to what they consider is Myanmar. And those are very much through the eyes of, of how they've been trained to see them, you know, going all the way back to Kipling, who was so instrumental in forming some of that those early archetypes of how Burmese character and culture appeared in Western culture. And yet, as you do in the film, there's no Western character. There's No English language, there's not even any explanation as to what's happening there's there's not even any, any moment or one is pausing and trying to alert or or telegraph to the viewers what, why they're doing what they're doing or how this is part of it, you're just thrown into this lifestyle. And again, this is your throne, the two lifestyles, which I think is really important to get across. So, listeners, one is the experience of going to any foreign country and trying to integrate and understand the way that society operates from the subtleties of how things look to the way they relate to different expectations and different moments. And then the second one on top of that is which is much more complex is life in a Buddhist monastery life in a Burmese Buddhist monastery. And the the rituals, the dead time, the play time, the eating the protocols with Vinnie, of course of how les monk in an actual interactions have to be. And so you're the film is capturing these, these two elements without any explanation or any intruder. As to why why what is happening is taking place or what it means it's just simply happening. And to do this, I think to do this effectively, it does take a certain how to say a certain sensitivity and awareness and, and time really, to be able to first know what those things are before one then thinks about, well, how do I portray them accurately? There needs to be a lot of reps of simply knowing what it is that takes place. And and and understanding that and then looking at well, how do I bring this to the screen? So can you talk a bit about how you went about trying to create these authentic structures of, of community of culture of language of interaction, and then on top of that the whole monastic element, which is so different than you know, the thing about culture is that culture is different in different places. But it's, it's the same thing that's different, you you don't interact this way you interact that way you you don't talk like this, you talk like that. So there's at least a new protocol to fit into when you're talking about monasticism. We don't have anything like that in our country, that's anywhere similar to those protocols to what the road means to the separate way of living. And so this is a whole other kind of experience that that can't just be kind of replaced with the one that we know. But it's on top of that so and I think you do a really effective job of bringing the viewer into that world as someone who's spent a lot of days and nights in monasteries there's so much familiar there from the just the feel of the word and you know the the beads in the monks hands and so much else but what how did you go about trying to to bring those those small interactions and rituals to life and to do it in a way that would also be authentic and and familiar to those that were had been in that culture?
Brian Perkins 38:14
Well, I think what you know, I didn't have very much experience prior to the, the time that I'd gone back to actually shoot the film, but I came early and then was staying there for a while before that. But I had gone to India and had been living with at the Ramakrishna Mission in in better Mott near Kolkata, with with a friend of mine, has now called Swami made the Nanda had been my roommate at Berkeley. And so I spent a lot of time a number of weeks, staying at the monastery with them and we had even gone to come up with course, which is the birthplace of Rama Krishna near the Bangladeshi border during Durga Puja. And so I was really just thrown into the deep end of that kind of monastic life. No, of course. Buddhism is different but in some ways, a lot of the the traditions you know, they're they're kissing cousins in many different ways. And so I just had that monastic experience, not just there but then I was also in Varanasi and Rishikesh. Staying not not doing just like a yoga retreat, but living as the divine life, society and things like that. So my experience in a strange way with those monasteries, helped create the I'd say the foundation of monastic living that I then was able to bring to Golden kingdom and then I was staying in Myanmar at the monastery for for a minute before we shot and I really was just paying attention to everything and following the, the routines and just understanding the little details that I wanted to bring to screen and it seemed important to me and a lot of those just instinct, what would be most reflective of what was happening? What was jumping out at me and my, my goal the whole time was to just really let those moments exist. And to let the the life express itself on screen and not to give an agenda on my part to as much as I possibly could to be just kind of a midwife for these traditions and the story which, to be honest, kind of came to me in a way that most stories don't. And it felt like it was almost given to me as a, something I needed to, to help bring into the world. Not out of some super ego based process where I'm like, I'm gonna make this story as it was kind of like, here's the story, now you have to help make that come to life. And so a lot of it was just kind of working in that liminal space I think of working with, okay, the nuts and bolts, I need to do this, I need to represent that etc. And then the more instinctual insight inciteful kind of meditative space where I just felt okay, that this needs to come and this needs to come in this needs to come. And I would say that's, that was a big part of the way that I was able to help that way of life come come into existence on screen for people. And I think a lot of people have responded to it, because it's not through the eyes of a Westerner, right? It's not, you're not coming there being like, Oh, wow, what is this like? Seeing it through the blue eyes of a Brad Pitt or something? It's just there. And it's been there for hundreds of years, for millennia, and it will be there for millennia. And that's, it simply is in a way. And I would say also, my meditate meditation practice, aided in that as well. At that point, I've been meditating for maybe five years. I'm not sure I can remember exactly, but I definitely had been putting in some time.
Host 42:41
Which meditative tradition was that?
Brian Perkins 42:45
At that point I was doing on upon. So I was doing, you know, however you want to call it but the the Burmese tradition, and it was later on, I've done the pasta. I've had done the retreat and everything. But at that point, I was really just doing meditation on the breath. And then metta. So those two were kind of the primary practices I had done of course, I'd been introduced to mantra in India and other tactics and you know, basic mindfulness, things like that. But my main practice, especially around the time, when I was shooting golden kingdom was somewhat somewhat loosey goosey on upon a combined with metta certainly not as strict as the going in the pasta that I would later learn. Yeah, so that's what I was mostly doing.
Host 43:44
And you say you found the experience of doing on upon on meta while you were at the monastery in the process of preparing and shooting the film? Did that actually change the nature of some of the decisions you were making? Or the vibe of the film going forward? Or what affected that routinely routine meditation practice have on the development of the film? Would you say?
Brian Perkins 44:09
It? It's an interesting question. I think it gave me the courage to stay with certain shots in the film longer to make certain choices that I would not normally have made where a lot of people were saying, No, you can't. You have to cut here, you know, like you really can't just hold on them meditating. And knowing that the patients and creating the space for the in the silence, that something can be born in that that it's not going to be born. It's not going to come from it for every viewer, but at least to give the viewers a chance to have an experience inside themselves objectively where they can sit In the discomfort of that long meditation shop, for example, and then perhaps move on to something else and find their mind quieted or understand that their mind is chattering, things like that, I don't think I would have been nearly as confident I would have just had a shot at them meditating. You know, hey, look, they meditate, cut. Next thing, you know, like as just like an activity, but understanding the actual quality of what it means when you go into a meditative practice, and what it can create inside of you, or whatever you even really is. That allowed me I think, to be a bit more courageous in those choices that I already was leaning towards making, I would say,
Host 45:46
that's a really beautiful answer. And I, I can recognize what you're saying, from watching the film, that there's moments that that linger. And being a normal watcher of films, you kind of have certain subconscious expectations, and like, Okay, this is what I'm supposed to supposed to see. And now it's panning and now Time is moving. And then there's some kind of invisible clock in your mind, that's like, Okay, well, now, now I've gotten this and then it stays low, longer. And, for me, it was just so fascinating, because it was, again, I've been, I've lived in this detail for so long, there was just more for me to explore and to think about and to enjoy and to rest in that. One hopes that, that your viewers, to many of your viewers don't have cell phones, as they're watching them. That temptation to go away from, from the observations of the mind, or lingering in a scene and take the easy way out that this technology has played all of us with. But, you know, also on that score, it made me think as well, that, you know, if there is a moment for you to exotic AI, anything, there is really nothing greater as a filmmaker to Spotify than the than a Burmese monk in a teak monastery, sitting in meditation, and, and all the ways of that can be exotic. And it just struck me as you were saying that, that this in my mind, this was not exotic. This was shown with the kind of reverence patience, silence even you could even say boredom, confusion, that that the activity of meditation brings. There's something beautiful and peaceful about it as well. But it's it's certainly the there's there was no indication I had watching this, that was that fell in line with some of the other the other Western takes on on Asian Buddhist countries. And monks pursuing their their practice that they tried to, to to make it into something it wasn't it was simply this was simply an activity they did during the day and say that you were filming and was probably really meditating as that was as the camera was on. And that that normalcy that routine was was there as authentically and as naturally, as you know, bowing to the statute or going on arms rounds, or just the way that a lay person would would approach a monk and the kind of interaction they would have both bodily and in verbally that that this was this really was something that lingered and just how do you how do you stay with as a viewer?
Brian Perkins 48:23
Yeah, I mean, I think that it's just a met. I'm thinking about, I mean, I really liked the Taiwanese poster for the film. But they really, they really went for it, they got a lot of they got all your colors on it, when they're meditating. It's like there's, there's Buddhist statues behind them, you know, it's really like a I don't want to say exotic FIDE but it's a super kind of like, what you would imagine this kind of colorful Myanmar experience to be in a way, like with the temples and stuff like that. And from a Western standpoint, it's, I don't know, I just, I think it's, it will if you've lived with monks, you know, that all monks are not enlightened, far from it, you know, so that just having that experience of the the normalcy the workaday world of living with monks and them arguing with each other, and you know, you have some that are really very, very quite spiritually advanced, if you want to use that word, and then you have others who are just kind of there by happenstance. And you have others who are using that as a way to get power over other people. You know, there's this a whole society that exists there. So for me, having had spent time with in different traditions and different monastic traditions and kind of understanding that that led me to believe like, okay, just in and of itself, being a monk isn't some sort of, they're not there. Not going to become Buddha. And there's, there's a lot more there. And so that helped me kind of frame it in a, in a more just manageable way like this is happening, this is existing, and it's just gonna keep existing for forever and there's gonna be, let's say, you know, we're just between friends here, but there will be enlightened individuals that emerge from that tradition from time to time. You, you know, you will not often meet them, but they're there around. And there will be a lot of other people who are just there because that's where they ended up because of circumstance or they're put there as children, you know, there's, it's a much more complex thing then, this sort of exotic FIDE sitting in lotus and under the banyan tree and reaching enlightenment, it's a in a way the monastery and the Buddhist order and Myanmar is, you know, serves as civil society in Myanmar because the Theo the military is hollowed out so much of that, that the the Sangha has to, to work as that like doing so many earthly things. And Myanmar, which of course, is quite dangerous as well.
Host 51:14
Yeah, yeah. And it's funny, just having this conversation now, it makes me reflect on what came to me as a big surprise in a television show called Barry. It's a comedy about a hitman with Bill Hader. And the second season, they somehow bring in a Burmese Buddhist monastery in Los Angeles that's somehow involved in the plot story. And of course, there's all shades of ridiculousness that, that anyone with any background understanding can pick apart. But the thing that I remember standing out to me was more of the subtleties of just um, and what stood out specifically was the the placement of Buddhist statues that they, in the so called Burmese monastery in Los Angeles, as well as in the Burmese homes, they have Buddhist statues that are just in completely random places that look very much like a set designer with no experience, just thought he had to have Buddha statues. And so he just went and got which ones he could found. And he put them in which places you could and anyone with any experience in Burmese Buddhist culture knows that the the placement and the setup of where Buddha statue is and the way that it's honor, it is set by a whole litany of do's and don'ts. And, and so that kind of haphazard way of just setting everything all around and just saying and saying, Well, this is good enough. And it's or maybe not even that thought just wanting to appeal to a western audience that can get a kick out of it. And of course, film like this is exactly the opposite. It helps that you probably didn't have to set up too much set design, I imagine that this was these were real homes and monasteries where you were shooting so the, the, you know, right down to the design on the plates, or the bowls, or the blankets or the pillows these were things that as we were watching, we were like, Oh yeah, that's the that's the kind of pillowcase that you buy me and Mar you know, have many more options than that style. And so there's definitely an authenticity and in, in all of the way that those environments were arranged.
Brian Perkins 53:24
Yeah, I mean, we we went to the basically the store, you know, the monk store that they have in town G and we're like, okay, we need four or not four, but like eight of these are, I can't remember how much we got, you know, because you need costume changes in case something gets dirty and we need so we just bought everything just for the for costume and also for the design for the stuff that we needed to change or move slightly. We got them all just you know, at the the store where the monks get their, their robes and their fans and all of that. And then everything else of course, yeah, it was just sourced on spa. You know, it could it could have been, you know, production designed by Buddha. No way. Yeah, I actually saw Barry, which I which I love. I think it's kind of a great show. But yeah, that that part of it. They're they're just like what's well, okay, we've got Russians, which of course even then it's kind of like it's so over the top. They're like what else sounds kind of weird, and like scary in a way like, oh, yeah, Burmese. You know, like, there's some there's weird stuff that happens there and they're dangerous, but it's also kind of can be funny and yeah. They they didn't really they weren't very sensitive.
Host 54:40
Yeah, well, this is usually what you get. I mean, if you even if you go to an even more ridiculous film that is, is I would not put any claim to like I also enjoyed there is a Hangover Part Two, which takes place in Thailand and there's a scene where they go to a Thai monastery in Bangkok and it's basically like a crock. Between a Shaolin Kung Fu Tibetan monk, that is in Theravadan Thai tradition and it's, it's so the the humor of it just escaped me to such an extent because the the the inaccuracy at every level nothing, I'm a stickler to everything has to be according to perfect detail. But the incongruency of of going to a Thai monastery and finding a Shaolin slash Tibetan monk, and no intentional irony, just a complete lack of understanding and the film itself has been shot in Thailand. That was, you know, that that is usually the standard fare of whether whether it's the more positive spin of trying to exotic fi or whether it's just trying to make humorous or make light, it's, it's usually not done with so much attention to detail or interest in that as well.
Brian Perkins 55:58
Yeah, well, I mean, I think we can agree that, despite large strands in the west of society that are interested in let's say, the yoga tradition, or the Buddhist meditative traditions and things like that the vast majority of society is, I would say, I wouldn't say they're threatened by that. But they're like, yeah, the only proper attitude would be kind of one of ridicule. And why are you going to waste your time doing that? You know, and look, there's some kung fu stuff to throw in there. Hahaha. You know, and maybe I don't, I can't remember the very stuff, but maybe it's like how you think these like, Buddhist monks are so good, but they're actually moving heroin? Because opium comes from Burma. Haha. You know, like, I don't, you know, like, I don't know exactly, but the most people's attitudes toward towards that is, you know, they're, they don't have an understanding. And of course, why would they? Right? It's not like we, we create an environment that's this necessarily wants to make people curious about stuff like that in a real way. And, you know, most people, I started meditating. One, one minute, you know, I could meditate for one minute, and then those two minutes, but I can't tell you, if I had to, if I had $1. For every time, someone told me that they can't quote unquote, can't meditate. You know, I'd have many dollars, my friend. And, you know, they tell me that all my mind is just too, too noisy. The, the point of meditating more is that, you know, but that discomfort, I would say that arises. We don't we do not live in a society that are a culture that allows us to sit in that discomfort is just instantly, yeah, pick up the cell phone, look at something. And, I mean, I, of course, am as guilty as, as the next person, you know, I often find myself unconsciously just looking at something because there is a moment of free space, and I'm just all of a sudden lost and lost in this kind of dream. And that's with having over a decade, like 14 years or so mind training, and I'm still getting very, very susceptible to it. So yeah,
Host 58:46
yeah, that's it's funny saying that one is one's mind is too busy to meditate is kind of like saying one is too dirty to shower, any number of other analogies like that. But I clearly remember when cell phones came to me and Maher and I, you know, the entire meditative experience at the monastery was was changed, it was really quite a, quite a shock to have those intrusions. And before the introduction of, of cell phones and technology, there was a lot of boredom and a lot of sitting around a lot of staring at walls. And just and being in nature, and just understanding the role that nature was playing was just so important in Myanmar, because because of the climate and because of the home construction, but just much more simple that one has not really trapped within one's walls to any degree, the separation between public and private space in Myanmar is very different than in the West. And, and the lack of cell phones went into just this communal space of attention and have a limit to to where one's mind can go. And there was a simplicity with that. And I clearly remember when cell phones the first moment that I saw technology reintroduced in the rural monasteries where I was at and just I'm just really being being amazed at what that would how that would transform everything overnight from even more than I think modern societies were before the introduction of the cell phone, you when you had reached your your point of study or conversation or meditation or whatever it was, that there was nothing left to do. But you know, as I mentioned, stare at the wall or stare at the nature or, or just sit around. And often it's so, so hot that that's what people do just to conserve energy. When he lives in that kind of hot weather for an extended period of time, believe me, you you start to realize how even very subtle things like thinking too much or heightened emotions can actually raise your heat level. And so you, you definitely start to realize all the little little ways you can just have your body temperature down a couple degrees. And, and often that that just involves just just sitting in between and the introduction of the cell phones and technology there that that changes it wholeheartedly. So that's, you know, it's quite interesting that you were there, probably really right before that kind of introduced. So you know, this, this was really one of the last moments that you or anyone could have captured the experience of, of what what, as you mentioned being an interview, people who were not as influenced by cameras going on and off because they had not witnessed many cameras and have not even seen many movies. So that's that that is really a time capsule in that way.
Brian Perkins 1:01:36
Yeah, I had, I had the sense that I was really the last moment, I could have done the movie, the way I did it, because they were punching this road through behind the monastery, and it hadn't been finished yet, but they had cleared a lot of the ground for it. And you actually see part of the road when the old man approaches our main character towards the end of the film. And so there's that wide, like kind of a leveled space that was going to be paved. And it hadn't been by the last time I was there. And I'm not sure if it has at this point. So I haven't been able to go back. But I had, I had the sense that it was all going to change. And there were a couple of cell phones that were floating around, they just arrived that year. And also, you know, there was no electricity, but they were using solar power hooked onto a car battery to charge the cell phone before they even had lights. And I was like this is like this is a skipping a few stages here, you know, a few few steps. And I could just, of course, like everywhere in the world, I could see what's gonna change and then also just become very much the way that the internet or whatever you want to call this experience that we're having the cell phones and everything, we're just gonna level off the experience in a way it kind of generalizes experience across the world, you know, style, when I was growing up style was much more regional and localized and especially in countries but even within the United States. And, of course, now there's just kind of an international style from amongst certain groups of people from Hong Kong to Kiv to Amsterdam, to LA to Omaha, you know, it's all kind of a flattening of that. And I could see that kind of coming down the pike. So I really was wanting to capture that. But then also, it I knew it allowed me it kind of gave me a bit of air cover as it were to shoot the film. Because there wasn't cell phones everywhere. There wasn't going to be people filming us shooting the film, and then sending that to their cousin who then sends it to whoever you know, there's no there's no telephone, there's no service up there. So there was no way to really contact us. And so once we were up there, I felt like we were in this kind of protected space where we could shoot the film, even though right before we shot and maybe I should have talked about this earlier because was was insane. Whereas maybe two days before you're going to start shooting principal photography. I wake up in the morning and I see the the son of my local producer and fixer, just in a total panic. Just ridden up on a motorbike on a dirt bike and then kind of run up the rest of the way to the mountain because it's a it's a day hike if you just hike it normally and come Coming up to warn us that the military was coming to see because they'd heard that some things were going on up there. And they wanted to know what was happening. And my visa had expired at this point. So I would have been not, you know, who knows what have happened. So I had to go. I had to go down to the town. And kind of hide out for a couple days while we worked out an agreement with the local colonel, as it were, I believe it was a colonel. And that was interesting, because I also understood how the military operates, how the structure is, I don't know how it is now. But at the time, this was playing with the cell phones, it was almost like there were these independent guys from the military, the colonel, of course, they have to answer to their higher ups, but they seem like they have their own Ambit, where they can operate. And we're kind of in charge of these different regions. And I found that to be kind of interesting that we were able to placate one of the local colonels, and that by doing that, I could kind of go under the radar of like larger intelligence services or military oversight. And yeah, I was able to go back in a couple days, and we were able to shoot without incident after that, until the very end, when we had a few problems, one of our translators who was trying to extort us. And those, there was a fun, fun plot twist at the very end. And, yeah, there were a couple checkpoints at the very end that we got through I was like, come on, like crossing our fingers. And we got through, and then everyone left the country. Before I did, and they just redistributed the we had sets of hard drives. And we had someone come in from Bangkok, who had not been associated with the film at all, who had been in the country. And she just came in from Bangkok for the night, got a backpack with a set of the hard drives, and then flew back the next day. And then I had someone else flying a different flight totally separately with another set of the hard drives. And then I waited till everyone got out of the country. And then I flew out and I had someone, I had to hire someone to basically walk me through the airport to immigration. Standing there, he said, wait here, he went into the immigration room with my passport. At a certain point, after maybe 1015 minutes, he handed me the passport and says, Okay, go, go. And so he's like, go now go down, go now. And I went through the diplomat line and walked through and then was able to fly back to Bangkok. But then, of course, there was one final, you know, hurdle to get over. But I don't think we'd be able to do that now. Because of just people would be able to communicate so much more easily. And kind of tracking where I was at and communications and things like that. So
Host 1:08:22
great, very harrowing end of the filming. Let's listen to another clip from the movie golden kingdom and then go back to Java Bhatia Bala give him a secretly miasma? So, we talked a bit about the authenticity that you were aiming for in how you were portraying the monastic environment as well as the culture language interactions, everything along those lines. What kind of reception Have you heard about the film from local audiences who saw it and who of course, the many of the motifs both physical as well as some of the supernatural would be familiar to them. How has it landed with with viewers that you've heard from locally?
Brian Perkins 1:09:49
Well, unfortunately, I was never my dream of course was to have the the film in in Myanmar and to go to screen things like that, but it just wasn't. We weren't able to work that out. And yeah, I just I thought that's that remains one of my my regrets, you know, and I've heard that the DVD is available on bootlegs and things like that, which makes me happy, of course, that people can see it. But that was one of the reasons I wanted to make the film to begin with was to kind of capture that moment and, and reflect back to Myanmar audiences, their their own world in their own culture in a way while trying to step as much out of the way as I could. Because at the time, of course, now there's, there's a much more developed 12 now. Now, after the coup, things are quite tenuous, but there's been developed a much like larger local cinema culture. But at the time, it had been really, it was really, they were, of course, making tons of films, but there were the kinds that you would see on the long Buster journeys, you know, where they would, I'm sure you I'm sure, you know, the kind of films so I wanted to take a moment in time to capture that with like, you know, the best cinematic equipment I could I could bring into the country, which wasn't available in the country at the time. So, but, you know, the, the, the folks I have engaged with, who are from Myanmar, but outside the country. Yeah, I mean, they, they, they, they really enjoyed it, they didn't have anything, they were like, Oh, you got this wrong, you got that wrong, I think it was just nice to the for them, especially when it first came out. To be able to see the that experience and that that's sliver of life and that tradition represented on the big screen in a way that was true to their experience, I hope. And, you know, I don't take credit for this, because my cinematographer is so skilled, but the film just looks gorgeous. She was able to capture so much out there and to be able to watch that on big screens with audiences as well, especially now, however many how many decades are being to the pandemic, to that collective experience on the big screen. And, you know, we shot in 4k, and so it was just, it was really just wonderful to kind of share that collective experience with people. And, you know, I think one of the one of the best compliments I ever had was, I had a screening at Oxford University. And there was a woman there who was she's not Burmese, but she'd lived there for 10 years, and is an expert on specifically on folkloric tradition within Myanmar, and all of that, and like the tribal cultures and things, things like that. And she was saying she was very surprised that I had been able to represent that. And in the way that had been represented without having really just lived there for a decade, as it were. And so that that made me feel happy, because I just didn't want, I don't want I don't want to create a false impression, or just put my personality onto it, you know, that that's not what it was about. And so they to get that feedback was has been the best out of everyone, I think of like the local Burmese, or Myanmar people who've seen it, and then also people who just really know the culture. Because like I said, it's not my vision of it, it's in a way I just wanted to kind of be a midwife for it, to give people an opportunity to experience it and have a captured in this cinematic document that people can go back two years from now if they want to and and understand what life was like and in the monastery, like you're saying before, there were cell phones before whatever happens next race
Host 1:14:31
and capturing this kind of daily life as its unfolding. So much of the surroundings is based on nature on living in this rural community. And as I mentioned earlier with the I know Shan is a bit higher so there's, it's not quite as hot as some of the dry zone areas. But but they're still the private, the public private nature of some of the buildings. Of course a monastery is not a private place and people meaning going in the way that they live. And so the surrounding nature of in the area that they're in outside their home outside the monastery really comes alive to this both through the cinematography as well as through the sounds that come and I read in a prior interview did that you consider nature as kind of a fifth character? So how conscious were you of trying to have both trying to capture this local nature and the way that that was achieved? And bringing that into the story as a fifth character?
Brian Perkins 1:15:34
Well, I think it's interesting to think about that now from from my current standpoint. But yeah, it really was the morning, I think, after I was first at the monastery for the very first time. And I had an encounter with nature, let's say where I went off, off, away for a little bit and kind of just sat there and there's no one around there, it's so isolated, there's a village, but this was so quiet and kind of let that wash over me and I come from nature, I'm not I wasn't born in in Manhattan, or something I come from, basically rural Oregon, some use to nature, but the specific quality of that nature was what allowed, and not to sound too mystical, but it kind of allowed the space for the story to emerge within me. And so I felt a connection that I needed to kind of pay homage to that connection or, or that inspiration in the film, and I mean, as you know, not in the Buddhist tradition, but in the local tradition, there's the the NATs the the, we want to call them like the local nature, spirits for difference spots, whether it's a source of water or different, you know, trees and things like that. And I understood as I spent time there, that there was this Buddhist tradition, but also that the NATs were paying, playing a, an important role also of the local people's belief system, and that their connection with them and with nature was also quite important. And it reminded me of, in a way, my connection with nature when I was a child, and in a way, it was much more mysterious, and magical, and anything could happen. And I'm not saying I don't, I'm not so sure that that's the not the right way to view nature, in a way, and I think, I will not try to quote because I'm sure I'll get it wrong. But basically, Jung also said, you know, if ever you're in this kind of alienated state, or having an experience where you're, you're totally disconnected from yourself, just go into nature. And it will kind of connect you to a larger, not just nature itself, but also a larger, let's say, when he would call it the self as the archetype. So I wouldn't say all of that stuff was going through my mind at the time. But looking back on it, now I can see how important it was, for me to have natures this kind of active participant in the narrative, because, as you stated, it is kind of imposing on you, there's no, there's no air conditioning, you know, you're kind of you're at the you're at the whim. And of course, in Shan state, it's much more. It's much cooler, as you said, but there's plenty of other things that happen. And if you're just living there with no electricity, no running water and things like that you're far more connected to what's happening in the world around you. You don't even have to get into the NATs and the different spirits and things like that just by dint of living a more simple life, you're going to be more connected and, and conscious of nature in that. And in terms of creating it. I was working with my sound editor, David Hughes, and he and I really worked together to create this soundscape that created a certain presence sonically in the film that where it wasn't just filler, but I was trying to create a sense of Another another character, I think maybe if I was going back to myself, five years ago or six years ago doing that, that interview, I'd be like, you know, maybe maybe it's not a character, but it's something else, you know. And we were able to create a kind of a soundscape that supported the experience of the human characters as well. And I'm grateful for him for having done that as well.
Host 1:20:30
That's great. That's great. So this film is being included in the upcoming Burma spring benefit Film Festival. So many listeners can check that out there and all the proceeds that are that will be donated, it's anyone can come and watch the films for free. And then they encourage donations, all those donations, all the films have been generously donated by the filmmakers for the benefit Festival, and then all the proceeds will go towards humanitarian missions that the organizers of the film festival will be carrying out. And that does bring us to present day and you referenced earlier in the the interview, how you didn't place it in a actual physical time. And, and even place, I would argue, I mean, we know that it's somewhere in the Shan hills, but we, for people more knowledgeable with the geography, we don't know exactly where it is situated in which borders nothing groups. It's a it's something of a universal thing told but told very locally through a Burmese point of view. And yet now, unfortunately, it's become all too prescient and relevant in in what the situation is that that people are going through? And, and I think it speaks quite powerfully and tragically to what what life is there now for many people. So what are your thoughts on seen how the country's trajectory was put so off course, with the coup, and then how things have developed in this past year, and then going back and seeing the type of film that you made. And of course, you're not exactly predicting the future because this was happening in ethnic areas at that time. This happened years before. So you're, you're you're definitely portraying something that has been accurate in different times in places in the country, but now has really engulf the entire country. And you've you've captured in a fictional account, something that many scenes in there probably speak out to be much more closely aligned to things that are literally happening this past year, that people are facing in terms of trauma and loss and fear and everything else. So what what does that been like for you to realize that some of the things you were depicting and wanting to betray there have now come all too true in the present day?
Brian Perkins 1:23:06
Yeah, I mean, it's a tragedy to see what's what's happened over there. And, you know, one, I have no hopes for the next time I can go to see, to see the boys and see how they're doing. For example, the sad dog just passed away this year. I found out that's, you know, makes me sad that we can't that the country is in its current state, and we won't be able to go back for quite a long time, it seems. And but at the time, when I made the film, as I think I stated earlier, I wasn't. I wasn't overly optimistic. I was optimistic, but I wasn't overly optimistic about the situation. And I would do a lot of Q and A's and people would really want to firmly place the film in the past. And I would say, I would often say like, right, right now, somewhere in Myanmar, someone is being hurt, due to political violence, somewhere in the country. And this was before the situation with the Rohingya and everything like that. It was it was slightly before that, because I knew that this wasn't some sort of historical thing. Now, unfortunately, the situations that were happening that I'm depicting in the film, or Yeah, essentially happening today, and it seemed to me that it was a cyclical pattern that could be occurring. And unfortunately, that's has been kind of prescient and something I never would want to come around. But I also think in the film, there's certain directions or pointers that the boys do discover or on earth or find within themselves for dealing with a moment like this. And I think that's what the first time I went to Myanmar, I was very, I was struck by how talking to people who had been in prison or had relatives murdered, or just total violence, villages wiped off the map, things like that. And how just casual death was in the country. And on one hand, saying that, and on the other hand seeing, I remember being struck by this guy that I'd met, who was a construction worker, and seeing him before he went to work, and sitting and doing like a 30 minute, presumably like a, on upon type meditation before going to lay bricks. And the the contradiction of that, and holding that tension between this tradition of non violence and, and meditation and incite and loving all creatures, and then just the easiness, with which death, the total discount of human life could exist side by side and in his culture for quite a long time, when I say in this culture, but in the country, rather. And so that was interesting for me to explore that tension between that in the narrative and when I made the movie, and no, it hadn't just gone away. Having a song Suchi in power wasn't just going to make or at the time, she wasn't totally in power, but having her afraid and doing everything wasn't just going to make it go away with a snap, but I didn't think that it was going to kind of boomerang so, so hard. And so that's, I don't know if it's I was not surprised, but I definitely was not expecting it.
Host 1:27:18
Right. Well, thank you so much for joining us here on this episode of insight Myanmar podcast, it's been really educational for me to hear some of the background of making the movie as well as the mindset that went into what you were trying to create, it definitely gives me a new new feeling to go into a rewatch to get that out. And I really encourage all listeners to check this out, especially those that have an interest in the Buddhist life of the country, how beautifully This is depicted. It's really a gem set in time that unfortunately, time has moved on from but hopefully those days will be back in some form again, and and thank you for thank you for appearing on and for letting your film be part of this festival and, and best of luck with your upcoming projects.
Brian Perkins 1:28:07
Thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time to discuss it with me and I hope your listeners will take the opportunity to watch the film and support the festival because it's really important that we we help everyone who's working on these efforts in the country right now. Because there's not been a lot of hope recently. And unfortunately, I think it's going to be incumbent upon people outside the country to start putting pressure to start to make things happen, because otherwise, it's just gonna stay the same. So please, please go take part in the festival and donate what you can.
Host 1:29:25
Thank you for taking the time to listen to this show. I realized that this is an enormously difficult time for many people who love me and more these days, myself included. And at times we might despair that there's anything at all we can do to stop the horrors unfolding there. However, just the mere fact of staying informed is helping to bear continue to witness and keep a focus on this issue when much of the international media has moved on. And the only way that we can do our part in continuing to provide this content is through the support of generous donors listeners like yourselves. If you found this episode of value and would like to see more shows like it. Please consider making a donation to support our efforts, both monthly pledges or one time donations are equally appreciated. Thank you deeply in advance. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military coup, we welcome your contribution, any form currency or transfer method. Your donation will go to support a wide range of humanitarian missions, aiding those local communities who need it most. Donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movement CDM families of deceased victims, internally displaced persons IDP camps, food for impoverished communities, military defection campaigns, undercover journalists, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies COVID relief and much more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs. You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution for a specific activity or project you would like to support. Perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode. All of this humanitarian aid work is carried out by our nonprofit mission that are Burma. Any donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fund. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website better burma.org That's BETTRBUR ma.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause, and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma Additionally, we take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and Cash App simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account you can also visit either the Insight Myanmar better Burma websites for specific links to those respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org If you'd like to give it another way, please contact us thank you so much for your kind consideration and support. Now more. Me To The News. For epigenetically