Transcript: Episode #88: From Burma With Love
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Kenneth Wong, which appeared on January 31, 2022. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:55
You're listening to a special version of the Insight Myanmar podcast, which covers the fallout from the military coup, the Democratic resistance. During this crisis, we're not only ramping up the production of our podcast episodes, but also our blog and other social media platforms as well. So we would like to invite you to check these out along with signing up for our regular newsletters. All of our other projects have been paused indefinitely so we can focus entirely on this emergency. But for now, let's get into our show. We're happy to bring you the following interview with a guest who's connected to an exciting upcoming event, the Burma spring benefit Film Festival. It will run from February 1 to the 13th and feature a wide range of films documentaries, shorts, animations and panel discussions. Nowhere else can one find so many diverse forms of media connected me and Mar that are ready to be streamed in the privacy of one's home. While there's no charge to log in and watch these features to your heart's content, the film organizers kindly request that viewers consider contributing in a donation of any amount. All the proceeds will be going towards humanitarian missions in Myanmar. In their own words, the events organizers, right. These provide humanitarian assistance in Qin Kitchin, Corinne cranny and Shan states. Por ethnic areas most severely impacted by food insecurity and emergency shelter needs. Support. We'll also go to freelance media and non violent human rights activist forced into Thailand. Know that your contributions will make a difference in Myanmar, through enabling dedicated local organizations to courageously carry on grass roots work in a time of darkness. So if you're encouraged by what you hear from today's guest, we encourage you to take advantage of this special opportunity and take in a variety of Film Festival events. You can search for Burma spring benefit Film Festival to learn more, or follow the links on our website. For now, let's get into today's interview.
Brad 04:20
Okay, So Ken, thank you very much for joining us. And it's going to be a very interesting discussion talking about the role that cinema and art more generally have in counter coup and in revolutionary activities. But to set the scene and to contextualize things for our audience, I think it'd be more useful if we start with a discussion of the films that have come out in Myanmar, let's say during the military junta until about 2010 2015. And then the movies that have come out in the last 10 years and whether you see a market difference between them.
Kenneth Wong 04:56
Yeah, indeed, a pleasure to be here talking about these because it makes me feel very nostalgic because I grew up in the heart of Yangon in the 70s 60s and the 70s. And then some something in the 80s as well. So I remember watching these formulaic kind of romantic comedies that the Burmese movie industry just turned out, they just turned down like hotcakes every year by the dozens. And I have to say, you know, they're just escapist things that usually they're, they show people living in air conditioned two story three story buildings that normally people cannot really afford to live in. And they usually about rich family have a son or working family have a daughter, and the two of them somehow fall in love with each other and the parents disapprove of the relationship. So they have to figure out some security's way to get together, perhaps with the help affair with the heroes of the heroines, best friends who, who also double as comedic comic relief in the movie, that sort of thing. They're really formulaic. And if you change the names and the locations of the location of the plot, you can probably have the same story repeating again, and again, only in different setting in different scenarios. This was the type of movies that I grew up watching. But in the last 10 years or so, and we're talking about, of course, the transition that began with President things things administration, the transition to the quasi civilian administration from military regime in the last 10 years or so. So between 2011 to 2021, when another military coup happened last year, so in those 10 years, the movie that came out were incredibly nuanced, sophisticated, but I remember being incredibly impressed by the output of organizations like young film school, for example. And of course, I also whenever I can, I would catch the human rights human dignity, the annual Human Rights human dignity Film Festival organised by director, minting, cocoa Ji. Unfortunately, the gentleman is one of the many talented people who are now in prison or in detention. Also, the annual film festival, all of those actually show really sophisticated storytelling acting they are a was a dramatic departure from the kind of formulaic films that I used to watch when I was when I was growing up. And, you know, I can't help but think that it has something to do with this. Even though it's not a fully democratic environment, it's a partial democracy in which art is allowed room to breathe. And artists are allowed room to express themselves with less restraint, less some less worry about censorship, and being punished for saying the wrong thing and things like that. So I was really impressed. And I was really looking forward to see the Burmese film industry blossom and thrive. But unfortunately, that is now in jeopardy again, because of the ongoing ongoing suppression of artists, poets. And, of course, the anti coup activities. Burma is now in a survival mode. So it's really difficult to make films when the whole country is embroiled in firings and struggling to survive.
Brad 09:05
And it's, it's been a very rapid deterioration after a very slow build. But I just want to get a handle on the psychology here. So you talk about these romantic comedies that are just sort of mass produced by the industry back under the the military regime. And what I'm wondering is, what was the cause of those because we in the West had those following World War Two, a lot of Audrey Hepburn's you know, famous roles and famous movies sort of fell into that category as well. And that was more driven by society's desire for as you put it, escapism, less so than than political pressure. So I wonder was the Myanmar film industry driven by censorship and and government pressure to make uplifting positive movies? Or did the people yearn for that sort of content at that time?
Kenneth Wong 09:59
I think It was a combination of both the people who, who, who was struggling to make a living and didn't have a lot of opportunities to climb the social ladder. Unless you're, of course, a member of the high ranking military, military families, you really didn't have a whole lot of opportunities. And it's also because it was an era in which everything that you publish, everything that you write had to be submitted to this highly paranoid. The literature scrutiny board, that's a direct translation of the Burmese terms sapi, CZ Yi Sabi. CZ upward, the literal literature scrutiny board. So it seems like you couldn't really talk about politics and you couldn't really talk about poverty, because if you talk about poverty of you show Portree poverty on film, you somehow have to address the root causes of poverty. So you ended up getting into you risks, touching politics, somehow, you couldn't really say a lot about you couldn't really say a lot about the inequality except, of course, by playing those archetypes that works very well in romantic comedy, where it's used as a trope to put an obstacle between two lovers. So they somehow have to overcome this inequality. But you really can't talk about the root causes of the inequality that way, because you get into trouble with the censor board. So all of those leave you with the safe topic of love. As the as the only territory in which movie makers get down, we make us have this small little room that they could play with. So I think it ends up encouraging many movie makers to simply tell these kinds of stories, stories that they know, reliably, could pass the sense of board without Hold on a problem. Even the sense of board is so paranoid that sometimes they would see symbols of resistance, where there was none. So you could have a situation where you ended up showing a woman wearing a certain type of flowers. And the sense of boat might think that this is this is a reference to Aung San Su Qi, because she tends to be her iconic image is of herself wearing a certain type of flowers. So that sort of situation, you just couldn't risk it because you could get banned even if you didn't intend to criticize the government. If you are perceived as criticizing the government, your movie would never see the light of day yummy, your movie would never hit the theater. So a lot of people chose the safe route and to be safe means to stick to the romantic comedies that you know people have been doing for decades.
Brad 13:12
And I just wonder during this time, was there much penetration of outside movies I mean, my mom borders India, which has multiple, multiple very high budget, very high output movie industries. Korea is on the continent as well. The time movie industry is reasonably sizable not to mention obviously Hollywood in the European cinema industries. Was there much presence of these
Kenneth Wong 13:37
Hollywood movies were indeed screened. In the one of some of the largest cinemas along Bunzl, Dan St. Thomas cinema. Domino's cinema which still exists today is one of those places where people would actually lined up with a long queue of 10 times 20 times longer a queue than you would normally see lining up to watch to buy tickets for Burmese movies a couple of blocks down the street. You know James Bond movies were very popular for example, because they show a kind of the they give you a taste of what it could be like to live in a different society where people were freer to say what they wanted to say and do what they wanted to do it. There is of course still, there is still the problem of censor board because the censor board will sometimes cut things that they feel are too sensual and too sexual, but Hollywood films were allowed to be screened and they were big events for Burmese cinema goers. Okay,
Brad 14:51
so what was the penetration of foreign cinema Hollywood, European, Indian and Korean during this period of time? I'm competing with the Myanmar silly I don't remember
Kenneth Wong 15:02
watching a lot of Korean films. However, the kind of BB Bollywood type, Indian films, and Hollywood blockbusters were regularly screened, regularly screened in many of the major cinema houses on this main street that leads to words are Sule Pagoda. I remember as a kid, going there watching movies with my dad, because my dad also loved watching English language films. Thamada Upawin those, for example, were the two big cinemas where foreign films were regularly screened. James Bond movies were big events. When a James Bond movie is screened, you would normally see a Q align that is 1020 times longer than a line that you would normally see lining up to go into a Burmese film. I think it's just because some people see the difference. People see the difference in those movies where characters are obviously acting with more freedom, and they are living live with a lot less restraint. And they have a lot more opportunities. And they there are a lot of stories that they watch in films about how people from lower classes could actually through merit work their way up and become successful. These are almost fantasies for average Burmese movie goers, because it wasn't part of their reality, and would be the sort of stories that they could rarely see realistically depicted anyway, in the kind of formulaic Burmese films, so people who have a yearning for good sophisticated storytelling artistically make foreign films or just escape its escape as blockbusters but made with a big budget and made with much better special effects. They have the opportunity to go see foreign film. Yes. So there was some sort of influence, I must say, however, you know, in those days making film wasn't as easy as just bringing your digital camera and shooting on the street, or aim your camera at somebody and telling them okay, stop talking because you have to apply for a permit, you have to do by the physical, the physical kind of film that we're sort of limited and ration, because it costs foreign exchange for the government to buy them. This was a situation under the knee when government under the knee when quasi socialist authoritarian government. So I have a feeling that there were a lot of people who, if they had been given the chance to make films, they could have made really great films that were on par with foreign films, but they just weren't able to. They just weren't given the kind of opportunity. So you ended up with only the handful of commercial film producers who keep producing the formulaic films that they are the safe to produced.
Brad 18:24
And so moving forward to the beginning of opening up onto this sort of pseudo democratic system following the 2010 election day and saying comes in officially a democratic government, civilian government, despite the fact that he himself was commander in chief. And then, of course, after the 2015 election, we see the NLD. Did the film's in his time begin to become more socially aware, more informative, more political?
Kenneth Wong 18:53
I would say so I would say so. What I've seen one, one of the thing that emerged was a documentary filmmaking. And this is especially true with the output of organizations like young films school. Think somehow the young filmmakers, some who maybe for budget reasons, they didn't, they didn't really have the budget to actually hire or hire a famous actor on an actress to be in the film. So what they tend to do is they turn the camera inward, they turn the camera towards the society, the people around them so you end up with films that for example, record the daily lives of young novices and nuns in a monastery. You see them in an incredibly honest, honest way. That previously, you weren't able to see movies like my Buddha is my punk for example, is shows you this kind of a subculture. That is, that was Starting to starting to take shape of the punk rock culture, the punk rock culture, it was the sort of thing that previously under knee when government because of the conservative social rules, and because the government tends to clamp down on anything that they deem is Western influence what would have been impossible. But here you have in the last 10 years in movies like my Buddha is, my Buddha is my punk. You see young people with spiky hair and Doc marten boots and rip jeans walking around, and producing the kind of move the kind of music that they want to produce. And also, along with it, they actually take a much more edgy, edgy message, to talk about, to talk about the lack of justice, in the way the ethnic groups are being treated. Those are the sort of things that previously you couldn't even talk about openly in teashops. So you certainly couldn't show this sort of thing. And the other things that we start to see are so makers also from abroad, were able to go into the country, and started making films that capture the way the Burmese society was. So you start to see movies like this kind of love, which talks about, which talks about an activist who is openly gay, who went back to Burma, taking advantage of the things in government's invitation and the partial opening to go back to Burma from Thailand where his headquarter was, and we're talking about an activist name on mule men? Well, mule men, is the centerpiece, and the subject of this documentary, this kind of love. So in a way, it is a documentary film that features a hero who is actually a member of the LGBTQ T. LGBTQ T, of course, is there isn't even a dignify word in Burmese language to talk about members of the LGBTQ t, you have what's like a chow ganduje bone, which all kind of roughly described, effeminate men, but none of them, give them the respect that they deserve wherever. But with movies like that, you start to see that people have to start to find a new kind of language to talk about this group in a respectful way. And the subject of the film, welcome, Yeoman is now Minister of human rights in the newly formed the National Unity government, the N ug that is leading, leading the resistance movement against the coop, we're talking about how the subject of fee, for example, the subject of the film, this kind of love as a member of the LGBTQ T, and he is, well Newman, who is actually now the Minister of human rights for the N ut government.
Brad 23:05
So he was actually an actor personally. He was the
Kenneth Wong 23:09
subject of a documentary, so he wasn't acting, but he was actually as it was happening, the director was following his transition from and overseas activist to an overseas activist who was coming home. And the filmmaker was able to capture it, and then was able to capture his thoughts and reflections on the changing society. And of course, that was change for the better during the quasi civilian government.
Brad 23:40
I mean, that's quite a, it's quite a rise. And it's a good sort of segue into this bigger topic of the role that art has in influencing society and influencing our politics. Do you think that the society itself and people themselves in Myanmar, have been made more politically aware have been made more socially open minded as a result of the liberalisation of the cinema industry?
Kenneth Wong 24:10
I think certainly, I remember that. In 1999. When I went back to the country, when I went back home for a visit, the country was still very much under very oppressive phase of the military rule. And a lot of people didn't want to talk about politics. Even if I broach the subject. People will politely try to avoid the subject. But things were quite different in 2011 and 2012. When I went back, it was an itch that there was dying to scratch and finally they could do it. And so everyone, everyone from the tea shop waiter to a taxi driver that I met, the moment they found out that I was I could speak Burmese sent mother tongue. And I came, I was from the US. But I was originally from Burma, the moment I, they found out these three important facts about me, the topic of politics, all these pent up frustrations, about lines and lack of opportunities, all these injustice is that they felt they were they were forced to witness during the previous military regime or that. And then of course, not only that, also the new hope that they have for what could possibly happen if the country moves in the same direction that it was, it seems to be moving. During that partial opening, these, everything just come tumbling out of the mob coming out of that amount is as if like the dam just broke and everything came pouring out. And I think that that is reflected also in the kind of poems that we hear we see written during those last 10 years, the kind of movies that were made that become much more honest about the the underbellies of the society, or the corruptions that are happening, or the fragile nature of democracy. You see these in movies like the vote, which captures the the moment when people went to the polling station to vote for their favorite NLD and LD representative and how they waited in the middle of a stormy night with bated breath for the result to be announced. All of those things, all of those things shows the society in transition shows how democracy even if wasn't fully realize. At that moment, you could see that something like democracy was struggling to be born.
Brad 26:57
I'm just wondering about specifically the the four eighths uprising I'm talking about democracy is one thing talking about you know, progress and elections is one thing was there a sort of taboo, on using cinema or similar sort of highly emotional art forms to portray or to discuss the four eight uprising
Kenneth Wong 27:23
or the 8888 uprising was a major event I was there I was a final year English majors university student when I was there. Afterwards fear. I was there for one year later. And then after that, I immigrated to San Francisco where I live now. But I remember that in the movies, or in the poetry in those stories that came out afterwards, you could see that there was some poets and artists who were trying to make reference to it, but they would more likely do it using symbols rather than openly talking about it. If they are openly talking about it, probably because they have escaped or fled abroad. And they are beyond the reach of the, the Burmese junta or some judicial system are the armies the armies reach. So you could think about poets like for example, Mount Han were on chinaware has already passed away. But he wrote this poem called to will is to bloom which I actually translated. I don't remember all the lines. My heart, I'm afraid, but it was it was something about how for flowers to wilt is to bloom if you pluck one, one more rises. If you drop to two more spring up, come knock us down, do your worst, we'll come back again. That sort of defiance spirit. at the, at the surface level, he could argue, if he was somehow dragged into the interrogation, interrogation center by the sensor board of hunters henchman demanding what he was talking about. He could he could argue they will simply talking about the fragile nature of flowers with short lifespan but people who were reading between the line and a lot of people can read between the line knew that he was talking about the 88 uprising. So a lot of that sort of movement where we the the readers, and the people who saw people who saw the artwork recognize what the artist or the poet or the writer was trying to say. But, but at this, that's also the surface level where it gives the artists room to argue that that is not it. about revolution. It's simply an innocent piece of art about flowers or something. So sort
Brad 30:05
of double play with, with the censorship board, I just want to sort of jump forward 30 years. And contrast, the way that the forehead surprising was being treated by artists and cinema, and movie makers and documentary makers, to the way that the current revolution is being treated. Do you see the end being a, a large and sudden shift in the way that people approach dramatizing and discussing and and portraying the current revolution on the aid revolution?
Kenneth Wong 30:40
The ad revolution, and there were a lot of eyewitnesses that were written the words that were written eyewitness accounts, but there were very few photographic evidence are very few video evidence, some of the ones that I've seen were really grainy footages that they were really difficult to see difficult to see, difficult to see not well difficult to see, because it usually shows you know, people being shot in the middle of a protest. So that in itself was difficult to see, but also difficult to see because it was just not very, they were just grainy, and they were not of high quality or good resolution. But the 2002 or 2000 2021, Feb coup, and the the footage that emerged from it, whether it's footage that records, real events that were happening on the ground, like come the army driving a car through a group of protesters, so whether it was some photos of the remains of villages who were burned alive, we are talking about, you know, high definition videos, many in many cases they were uploaded live while it was happening there. So we have a lot more photographic evidence. And I think there are also movie makers that at least in the early, at least in the early days, in the early days of the coup, when a lot of people rally together and came out in fours and great numbers and overwhelming numbers taking to the street. And many of them actually shot films, those incredible, those incredible shots of like a sea of people flowing into the streets, there are a lot of photographs that are available. There's some of the movies that are made in the early in the early days of of the anti coup movement, before the army started cracking down with sniper shots, targeting protesters, for example, or just indiscriminately firing into the crowd before that, before that sort of event happen. There were a lot of good footage, a lot of artistically made films that document the moment. I didn't see a lot of fictionalized things because it didn't need to fix them lice, something something when you have something that dramatic and something that historic and more monumental was happening right before you if you're a filmmaker, your your instinct is to grab your camera and start shooting what was happening in front of you. You wouldn't feel the need to fictionalize or tell a different kind of story.
Brad 33:38
And I want to go a little bit more broad here. Because this is a favorite question of mine. What is the role that you see for filmmakers, cinematographers and artists generally, in this particular conflict, but also in post conflict, progress and and reconciliation for the nation?
Kenneth Wong 34:01
I think there is a need. I've seen a good number of sort of like calm document, documentaries, documentaries that are made some better quality than others, so made about what happened as an event as as as the coup that was happening and the resistance movement. But I think there are a lot of stories to be told about the individual lives that are disrupted, you know, actors and actresses who were on the front line. The the male model like GM, buying the gun, for example. He was actually on the front line. He wasn't just waving little flags and banners in the back of the crop. He was actually on the front line taking fire, literally taking fire when bullets were whizzing through the crowd. He was arrested and I think he's recently set Do a long jail term. So I don't know when we'll see him outside. The stories of individuals whose lives are disrupted like that, stories of actors and actresses, like PDQ or Angra jaws in people who used to be pop, pop icons and fashion icons and instantly recognized movie icons who are now in detention in jail, because they sided with the people. And they spoke out against the military, individual lives that are disrupted, like booksellers on been sold on streets, who rely on foot traffic, who could no longer count on that to make a daily living, or minor sellers, you know, the fish chowder sellers and the coconut noodle sellers who are the street vendors or the street vendors who have to count on foot traffic and a relatively peaceful environment to make their daily lives. All of these lives what happened to these people? And what what were they doing during what are they doing now, in the middle of this some in the middle of this highly dangerous moment, when, when speaking out against the government could get you killed or get you arrested to get you arrested is actually the least that could happen to you getting getting killed is a more likely scenario. It's happening every day, because we can look back at the numbers according to the Assistance Association for political prisoners. Burma, a PP be so far since the coup, about 1400 people have been killed 1400 people have been killed in the last 365 days or so that those are astounding numbers, numbers of people who are killed just for saying they don't want to live under a military regime. And I think there is there is something to be said about the film's that I look forward to the day when filmmakers will actually either through recreation are through the footage that they were able to somehow shoot despite these difficult circumstances, shoot them so that in later in the future, when better, and in better days, they can release them for public viewing. I look forward to seeing those films that tell the stories of individual lives being disrupted, disrupted and anonymous, anonymous people who perform heroic deeds during this time.
Brad 37:58
I mean, it bears sort of repetition. And you've mentioned this a few times that quite a few of these people are in prison. Some of them tragically have died. But quite quite a few of the actors, the models, cinematographers these people have been detained. And I think it just goes to show that the military seems to be aware of the potential power that these people have. The military understands that they can spread the word, and they can invigorate people and remind people of the atrocities that are going on. And they and they feel that they need to stop that that
Kenneth Wong 38:35
has always been true of the power of the celebrities. That is true of Hollywood celebrities. That is true of Burmese celebrities as well. You're absolutely right, the military understand that it makes a difference when buying the gun steps out in front of the protest crowd. Then suddenly he invigorates a lot of other young people who respects him and idolize him to follow his example. It makes a difference when a young, beautiful and brave actress like Banku goes on Twitter and talk about how the military is shooting at the shooting at the protesters because people trust her voice. So there was they were less likely to say this is made of footage or this is somehow fabricated footage they trust by pure because they trust her integrity and they trust them in some way the kind of characters that she plays, personify that kind of heroine so they trust her and all of those things the military recognizes so that is why they go after them heart and the issue and they issue a warrant in which a lot of the celebrities that were anti coup were listed in the warrant. And of course, that that started, that started the situation where a lot of them have to go into hiding. And some of them were forced to come to give themselves up because the military would arrest their family members as hostage and tell them to come and give yourself up or we will do god knows what, to the family member, young child that they are holding hostage. So yeah, many of these idols, many of these male female models and as a singer, or something they did, I would say, if they did the right thing, in this historic juncture in Burma, and many of them are paying a heavy price, one of the beauty queen for one of the beauty queens are tatata, for example, you will probably see her now actually, in in military uniform, because she has joined the armed resistance call of the people's Defence Force, the PDF, and she's now living in the jungle, marching and training along with other young people who have escaped the Big City Life chosen instead to be in the jungle as members of the PDF. Wow.
Brad 41:26
I mean, I think, you know, people forget very often that celebrities are capable of these things that this is a bit of a negative view of celebrities, as just looking for opportunities to to gain fame to gain celebrity, as it were, they act and they play people, but they're not genuine. And, and suddenly, some of the celebrities have received backlash for the perceived sort of fake support Nietzsche, who comes to mind in that regard. But some of these other people like it really goes to show that no, they're willing to put their platforms to good use, and push a good cause and put their own lives at risk. In order to support something, it's true.
Kenneth Wong 42:14
I've also heard about the criticism against Nietzsche, and a number of other celebrities who many people feel on took advantage of the situation for popularity. What you saw was a handful of celebrities who did nothing other than coming down, often surrounded by their own enter Raj and took a couple of selfies, raising the three fingers and then they'll disappear when things really get tough and dangerous. So those we could tell are opportunists, opportunists who simply use this GM critical, critical moment in history to further there on celebrityhood, I guess. However, I think there are real, real, heroic people who have made great sacrifices like Ingrid JOSM binder gone, people like lumen, famous male actor who is also in prison. Katie Lu, Banku, tatata, that no question about the personal sacrifices that they have made and the what family members also have to cope with because of the consequences of their involvement in it. So many people say that this, if you can call it the silver lining. This is that this anti coup movement exposes the hypocrites from the genuine democracy supporters in the celebrity community.
Brad 43:55
Absolutely. So to move the subject to something less dark. There is a my film festival coming up soon. And I understand you, you'll be able to tell us a little bit about that and the different films that will be
Kenneth Wong 44:12
yes, I'm part of this upcoming online Film Festival. It's called Burma spring benefit Film Festival. This is actually the second incarnation. The first incarnation took place in June of last year in 2021. As an immediate response, because we felt that in the middle of a pandemic, there wasn't a lot of rallying and assembling that we could do. But an online Film Festival allows us to bypass this problem with a pandemic. So you could stay home and you could watch documentary films. Many of them were donated. The filming right the screening rights were donated by the filmmakers when they hurt When they were approached by us, me and the other co organizers, and told them about what we wanted to do, they very generously donated the screening rights to their film, so many of them are documentary films. There are a few that are fictional. It will fall into the kind of a storytelling narrative type film, but most of them are documentary films, most of them have something to do with Burma, Burmese society, for Burmese culture somehow. So it was the it was a film festival that allow us to raise close to 50,000, we make sure that nobody was turned away for, for not donating. But we encourage people to buy a ticket to the virtual Film Festival, so that they could watch the films that are in the lineup during the festival itself, two weeks, three weeks period. So we're doing it again, we're doing it again in February, because obviously, February is the anniversary, the anniversary of the military coup. And we want to make sure that people remember that the Burmese people have been fighting, struggling very briefly, against this ruthless military for 365 days, and they are determined to keep fighting. So the world needs to do whatever it can to support them and make sure that make sure that the military junta cannot stay in power much longer. So the film festival is inspired by that. So we are doing a second round. It's simply called Burma's spring benefits in festival 2022. It'll start in February, and it'll run for about two weeks. There are a slew of new films that we're adding new films that we're adding, because we have since discovered their existence. And the filmmakers have also discovered us because of the first time so they felt like the first time they didn't get enough notice that they weren't able to participate this time they want to participate. So I'm looking for
Brad 47:17
I think, I want to reiterate an echo what you've just said, the anniversary of the coup, or potentially the commemoration of the coup is on the first of February, and attention on Myanmar has been dwindling internationally. And it is incumbent on all of us to try and refocus international attention to place ever more pressure on the military to to stand down and to allow a democratic civilian government to take the position to which it was lawfully elected. And one of the big things we deal with is how do we re engage an audience? So what I want to ask you is these films in the in the festival? Do you feel that they are accessible to someone who doesn't have much experience with Myanmar culture and history,
Kenneth Wong 48:05
they are definitely accessible. When you look at films like golden kingdom, for example, was made by our Berkeley base, filmmaker, golden kingdom. It's a classic, a classic narrative type story. This is one of the few films that are actually not documentary. It tells a story of a group of young Burmese monks who have to fend for themselves when their Abbot goes away from the monastery. And the first you see them having fun as Kitt normally would, even though the monks they are still young boys underneath their robes. So they are having fun with a newfound freedom. But very quickly, they realize that they are actually threatened by an encroaching civil war that is happening. So they have to confront the concept of death, they have to deal with tragedy, that stairs strategy staring right in their face, they have to confront the uncertainty of when the airport will come back or if the airport will come back. So these sorts of films, even if you don't know anything about the country, even if you don't know anything about the root causes of the Civil War that is happening in the background, you can still appreciate that as simply coming of age film of a group of young monks who are coming to terms with adult issues that say at the moment when they were not necessarily prepared to face them. Films like The short animation film my life I don't want by one of my respected Burmese animators. So that's that's of six to seven minutes. animation film that simply tells a story about the struggles that a Brahmin His call will go through from birth to marriage and beyond just for simply being born as a girl in a conservative and conservative society, if you take away the setting, and if you take away the occasional Burmese words that the character might utter, they're not a lot of work, by the way, because the animator makes a great job telling the story through visuals, rather than rely on language. So, so if you take away all of those that could be about a young woman who was born in Iran, or young woman who was born in any kind of country where women are treated as second class citizens, and they have to go through a much higher kind of hurdle in order to succeed in life. So all of those films are highly accessible. And there are also speakers, forums, speakers, forums are now recorded and readily available. Because they were they were live forums in the previous event. So the speakers forums actually gives you a lot more information should you choose to have a better understanding of what's happening from the coup that happened to the to the, to the nature of filmmaking under censorship, to the women activists who were able to raise the women's rights issue in the last in the last 10 years in civilian Drew, all of those things will help you understand more about the country, but many of the film, you could simply watch it without knowing anything about Burma.
Brad 51:47
I think the reason that that's such an important question is because we don't really see much representation of Burma Burmese culture Burmese history, in cinema, particularly not in the West. But even even if we go further afield, we go to Asia, Indian cinema does not seem to focus much on on Burma, Thai cinema similarly does not seem to focus much on Burma. Do you think there is any real sense that a western audience would have through cinema of where Burma is and what Burmese culture is?
Kenneth Wong 52:25
I think there were a handful of films, a handful of films that depict Burma to different degrees of two different degrees of faithfulness, I suppose you know, for example, you have a film called The Lady which is inspired by the life of Aung San su G. The State Councilor during this civillian room for one of the founding members of NLD, who is now in detention and facing kangaroo court, set up by the, the Honda. And so in the lady you see Michelle Yao playing a real person on some sushi, and I thought she did a great job she did a great job in emulating the real answer and Soo Ji some mannerisms speech pattern, she had to memorize Burmese, long, famous Burmese speeches that Aung San su G gave in real historic events without actually being a Burmese speaker. So in that sense, she's um, she did an incredible job. It's really like, reproducing Winston Churchill's, we shall never surrender his speech, given the House of Commons without speaking English, but having to learn it phonetically. So, Michelle did a great job for that movie. So that sort of movie gives you a good sense of what happened to the country. You also have movie like beyond Rangoon beyond Rangoon, that has as a central character, who is a young American woman who's traveling in Burma. So you see the country you see the country going through uprising and student students, that actually that movie talks about the 88 uprising, and it recreate many of the historic Gumm tragic events that happen in the 88 uprising through the and you see it through the eyes of the center character who's an American American traveler, so so it makes it much more accessible. All of those movies that even if Rambo, even Rambo that was made in 2008, when Sylvester Stallone was playing a sort of like a adventurous freelance tour guide, he was guiding a crew of military personnel and volunteers to trying to deliver medicine to refugees. Even in Rambo, you saw what was happening. It was an incredibly violent film, I must say. But most of the violence sadly, turned out to be fairly realistic. If you think about now, what we are reading in the headlines about how the military, the military soldiers burn villages alive or shoot them indiscriminately. But even in movies like Rambo 2008, you saw glimpses of the country. Some movies depict the country, they do a much better job at depicting the culture and much more nuanced others, they sort of use the crisis that is crisis and the tension that is readily available in the country as a as a storytelling, a plot mechanism, but it through these movies, you get some sense of what the country is, I think,
Brad 56:03
and I would agree My only concern with this is that we look at these movies are the lady very well known in Burma, phenomenally well known movie, but further afield, especially in the Anglosphere. It's generally rated as a very mediocre movie. It's not seen as, as particularly popular. It wasn't, I think, a financial success, although we did see accolades in in the sort of European independent film circles. And despite, as you say, Michelle Yos absolutely phenomenal performance and very difficult barriers to overcome very difficult barriers to overcome. But despite that, it was generally not received all that well. We look at Rambo. And again, the focus of the movie is on political upheaval, the focus of both the lady and Rambo, in their own ways, are the cruelty and the greed of the military, in seizing power and resisting democracy. Do you feel that there is I think more of an emphasis on this element of Burmese history than on the actual personal culture and the experiences and the the mentality and the outlook of everyday Burmese people.
Kenneth Wong 57:24
I would I would love to see, for example, a Hollywood a capable talented Hollywood directors depiction of a Burmese immigrant. It could be actually a humorous story, not necessarily a tragic or depressing story, I would love to see the comical depiction of the trial and errors of a newly arrived from his immigrants struggling to fit into American society or British society or in Thailand aware a lot of things would strike him as some alien technologies and new and don't know how to how to deal with those things. I would love to see a Hollywood directors re creation of re creation of historic battles or colonial Burma in a way in in a way that down to pick what society was like at the time. So those are opportunities that still exists. And I really think that the country is much bigger Burma is much bigger than the bloodshed and the tragic headlines that people see. This is the country that inspired to George Orwell to wrote his seminal colonial masterpiece Burmese day. This is a country that inspired Rudolf Kipling do. Pen has some famous poem, Mendeley. This is the country that inspired Paul Theroux to wrote about his train travel in the Great Railway bazaar. I think the country is much bigger than the tragedy in the Civil War and the military coup and the bloodshed that we are seeing is a country where, you know, the peaceful rhythm of the Arab River and the sound of the wind chimes in the Shwedagon borders, although the all of those would make great cinematic elements, but unfortunately, because of what has been happening in the country. When people think about Burma, they usually think about the they usually think about the issues that are associated with the screaming headlines in the news. So we are talking about the student uprising in 88. And the the Rohingya, the Rohingya issue and Aung San su T, and now the current coup and how the people are fighting against it. So a lot of People don't seem to have like a warm and cozy, approachable image of Burma. For many of them, it's really difficult to, it's difficult to take, because it's a tragedy, and one can only digest certain amount of tragedy in an average day. But I would love to see those other kinds of movies emerge.
Brad 1:00:21
And I think it's, it's important that we don't allow the image of the whole country to just be reduced to a one dimensional sort of caricature of a failed democracy, especially when it is such a rich country with such a complex and diverse culture. So moving back to the film festival, would you say that these films bring that sort of more diverse and more nuanced examination of what it is to be Burmese and what Burma is
Kenneth Wong 1:00:55
many of the films that are in the lineup are for good reason. Made in the last 10 years when there was this partial opening that allowed filmmakers to go into the country and make these films or allowed Burmese filmmakers to turn the lens turn the lens on their own and shoot what was happening around them and in their life, capture them, document them. So I think yes, these films are much more diverse. So if we look at films like it will look at films like quarter quarter nama zero, quarter number zero talks about this, this refugee community that that move into move into an it started off as an illegal encampment on the edge of Yangon after the Nagasaki cyclone, and the community faced discrimination and even though they were facing discrimination, and people looking down on them and economic hardship, there is still love, there is still Romans There is still people trying to donates from whatever little daily wages that they earn through selling fish, that's still a cycles of life and death happening and happiness and joy in the middle of all those these struggles. So all these movies actually go beyond the the coup and the bloodshed that we are talking about. There are stories that there are movies that simply tell the story of the LGBTQ T members who are striving, struggling to get the recognition that they deserve from so those movies have nothing to do those movie has have nothing to do with the coop and they tells you they tells you about how Andre people in Burma this and find joy, despite the hardship.
Brad 1:03:06
Excellent. And hopefully that's going to help balance out the the meager and I think a little bit biased perception that that cinema has historically given foreign cinema has historically given a mA. And so on a final note, I just want to ask you, you clearly have a very solid understanding of the cinema industry and of cinema as an art form. What advice if any, would you give to young Burmese people today? Who, despite all the chaos around them, might be considering a role in in the cinema industry?
Kenneth Wong 1:03:45
You know, if somebody is in the country, I would say first of all, try to be safe. No footage is worth risking one's life and dying for it. I don't think I wouldn't want. I wouldn't want to see any talented filmmakers shot dead because they are somehow trying to capture some moment. But feed things that seems to be ordinary, the things that are happening around them are really good historical footage. They are they are a record, a document a chronicle of what everyday people are going through under the military regime. And I have no doubt that even even in these dark days, ordinary Burmese people somehow will still find an opportunity to find humor in a comic book that they read or in pleasure in a cup of tea that they enjoy even though tomorrow's uncertain for them. I would say capture those moments. If if they can if they are in the country. Those are probably one day better days will come, I have no doubt. And one day these will these will be good footage, good, raw material that they could draw from to assemble together really good stories about how everyday people cope with the military regime, military rule, and the coup. And if you're a Burmese filmmaker who is fortunate enough to be overseas, in our country with much more freedom, of course, then you can also document the struggle of people who have been displaced by the military coup and also tell the story of you don't necessarily have to tell the story of the coup, you can simply tell the story of Burmese culture and the quirky humor that Burmese people tend to exhibit even in the tragic moments. All of those are good approaches, I
Brad 1:05:57
think. Excellent. I want to thank you very much for coming on. Thank you very much.
Host 1:06:17
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