Transcript: Episode #90: Looking Within A Burmese Nunnery
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Kim Shelton, which appeared on February 10, 2022. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:15
Thank you for joining us for the next hour or two in this episode of insight Myanmar podcast. In an age of nearly limitless content, we appreciate that you're choosing to take valuable time out of your day to learn more about what is happening in Myanmar. It is vital for this story to continue to be heard by people around the world. And that starts right now with you. We're happy to bring you the following interview with a guest who's connected to an exciting upcoming event the Burma spring benefit Film Festival. It will run from February 1 to the 13th and feature a wide range of films documentaries, shorts, animations and panel discussions. Nowhere else can one find so many diverse forms of media connected Myanmar, that are ready to be streamed in the privacy of one's home. While there is no charge to log in and watch these features to your heart's content, the film organizers kindly request that viewers consider contributing a donation of any amount. All the proceeds will be going towards humanitarian missions in Myanmar. In their own words, the events organizers right. These provide humanitarian assistance in Chin Chin, Corinne cranny and Shan states. Por ethnic areas most severely impacted by food insecurity and emergency shelter needs. Support will also go to freelance media and non violent human rights activists forced in Thailand. Know that your contributions will make a difference in Myanmar through enabling dedicated local organizations to courageously carry on grassroots work in a time of darkness. So if you're encouraged by what you hear from today's guest, we encourage you to take advantage of this special opportunity and take in a variety of Film Festival events. You can search for Burma spring benefit Film Festival to learn more, or follow the links on our website. For now let's get into today's interview.
02:13
And does anything mean that in any day, nobody embodies any into dynamics as a leader than they were named and then again later than I did, now I even then it doesn't even really
Host 02:33
matter. And that was a clip we just heard from the film documentary I should say 1000 mothers that was made by the filmmaker Kim Shelton, who is our guest today. This is a film that will be part of the Burma spring benefit Film Festival. And we're here to talk about the making of this film and the content as well. So Kim, thanks so much for joining us here at insight Myanmar podcast.
Kim Shelton 03:24
Thanks so much for having me here. Yeah, so
Host 03:27
I want to start first before talking about the actual film talking a bit about the content and your personal interaction. Relation to it. Obviously, the film is about the life of a Buddhist Nunnery in the sky in hills in Myanmar, it's outside of Mandalay. And so for you to make a film like this, it definitely seems to indicate you have some kind of interest in Buddhism or meditation monasticism. And so I want to start off by just learning about your background and meditation or Buddhism and where where this content was appealing to you to want to make a film out of it. Yeah.
Kim Shelton 04:06
It's kind of a funny story in that I didn't practicing. Probably, I don't know, 25 years or so. And it was for several years before I made the film I was in. I've been in Miramar before. On a tour kind of a Buddhist tour with temple Smith. Yeah, like you have to cut that out. But anyway, we I went back to ship for a month that Cheyenne was nutrition here, and he had been a t shirt teacher of Steve Armstrong and camo masters who are my teachers. So I was there for a month and it was pretty grueling in a lot of ways and also wonderful physically difficult, nothing was very comfortable there in silico element and element in terms of the heat, the food and just the things that we're used to in the west and I, I know, you've talked to people that have spent time at swim, and then and other monasteries, and very much, you kind of know that. But the highlight for me of that time there was spending time with this one nun who I had met, when I walked out to the front gates of the monastery, when early one morning just to watch the most leave on arms around. And there were these little really small, maybe 678 years old girls, some older girls with older Munzer first and why. And they came from a nearby nunnery. And he shows that highways and then I struck up a friendship with one of them. And so every day, I would go out there and we would just couldn't speak, we didn't know the language other than high end, we'd hold hands and go take a walk and then come back. And she would do the round if she tried to get neither bowl to do the arms round for her. And it was, it was a joke, because I would say, Well, no, no, I don't want it. You know, she say no, you get the merit, you put the you do the offering first I say no, no. Anyway, we have this really sweet relationship now. So so then what happened was, so I did this for probably three weeks every day. And then one day, she wasn't there. And the next day, she wasn't there, and she wasn't there again. And then I was leaving. And so I didn't know where I didn't know where she was from. And I kind of tried to have that conversation with the other nuns there. You know, that, however I did it, I still couldn't figure out where she what happens. So. So before, my husband and I were there together before we left the monastery, we we went, we asked permission, and we walked out to all of the neighboring nunneries. And we did this for several years until we found her. And, you know, it's really sweet. To get out Where were you I was in the hospital, you know, I was sick, and I thought I better now. So it was just a really nice connection. And then I'm a filmmaker. I've been a filmmaker for a long time. And I never was fun to film at all. Just it was my experience there. And I left murmur. And several years later, just all of a sudden, just out of the blue just came this thought of what the question was, what about the nuns, and I just realized I should make a film because nobody knows really very much about the nuns, people don't know about the monks, the monks get a lot of what is given in that country in terms of the alms roundsends and just money in the country. Certainly, loans are second class citizens and people around the world and early now don't really know about the 90s. So that that started a whole other odyssey of events. During so I decided to go back again, this is probably a year, two years later, thinking and it wasn't I didn't really want to do it, make the film in the same way where the screen was entered on me. I just wanted to open it up and and look at as many nannies as I could and I got names of enemies and contacts and translator and I just went with the attitude of the film is going to show itself or not. In other words, something will just spark for me that I will then go ahead and make the film or decide not to make it and and either way, it was a relief. I mean, in my mind because I was also thinking this would be really hard to make a film. Like I'm not sure why I make a film here to go to all the fields and so that's kind of my what my brain was saying. And then my heart was really pushing no leading. So I looked at 11 nunneries. And most were in Yangon and outskirts of Aragon and then the one that I ended up filming Listen in second, and that was the last one. And what happened was, I looked at all these memories for a couple of weeks, and there was just something that wasn't right about each one. And maybe it was the nunnery was too close to around where the noise was really loud. And I just couldn't, we would never get quality sound, or the voice I had none, I could tell one would not let me You know, I could have the feeling, I wouldn't be able to do very much in this measuring because they were very restrictive, or there's just just things in each one. And so finally, when I slept with it, met a translator for up to two Mandalay, went to skyline, watch up the driveway of the film, of where I did make the show, and sort of locked up the driveway, turn the corner, and then I just knew that this was a place, you know, it's just one of those things. So. So that's how it happened. You know, that's how I found myself in the nunnery. And so guys,
Host 11:10
that's great. And so you said, You've been coming for years before making this documentary to meditate under say, DotAsia Nia in the show human tradition. And it was through being there that you learned about, or you thought about the possibility of doing a documentary like this, just to put this in a specific time and context? Roughly, when were you coming to meditate at choice, man? And then when did you have the idea to go and start filming and actually began the production?
Kim Shelton 11:41
I think I was in Schwamm, in 2010. And then we finished the film was made, finished in 2010 2011, they finished the film in 2016, something like that? I don't know. It's hard to Yeah, yeah, in a Christian, it takes a long time to make a film several years. And then, but I did after I left swim, and I didn't it was several years, before I even thought of even making a film. And then it took another year to get everything organized, and just to be able to go there, and then another year to actually get the people in the money to go back. But one thing that happened that was really interesting, as I at the end of the shoot, we were there for 10 days, the main one that had done so one was the most talkative and the most friendly, and she just kind of led us around right from the get go. And I met her when I first went there. And then of course, I met her when I went back and made a connection with her. She's probably in her 40s and 30s, there were two active husbands, and she was one and at the end of the shoot, which was, you know, pretty disruptive for us to be there for them. And, and I said to her earlier, this is all through a translator, of course. Well, do you like did you think I was going to come back and make this film because, you know, here's this and this lemon, it shows up and says she's gonna make a film, and then a year later with these other people to make the sound and she said, Did you really think that that was happened? And she laughed? And she said, Oh, of course. She said, I knew the moment you walked up the driveway, that you were going to make too soon. The very first time, you know, and I said, What? How did you know that? She goes, Well, you looked at me. And you knew I was your mother? You know? Oh, well, I, of course, not thought of that or even considered any of that. But I there was something that was pulling me to go there. And she said that sort of Whoa. That's interesting. So that was that was something that was calling me there. And who knows? Who knows what,
Host 14:14
yeah, that's quite magical. And of course, this whole story is taking place in the context of the democratic transition. That's why I was asking about the dates because this is yet another thing we can see that the openness and the relaxation happened during that time that so many of these projects and explorations, intercultural communication was able to happen and flourish as it did here and create these moments that are just really quite magical and special. And just looking at how it opened up the possibility of Buddhism for those in the country as well as those that were able to come and access it and not only have benefit one way from being given the teachings but also benefit in terms of various kinds of projects that one was able to take on to make it receptive and bring this out. And that's the next question I want to ask is looking at what kind of what you were trying to bring out from the nunnery experience. You've obviously been to Myanmar many times before, you've spent time living in monasteries being at nunneries. And meditation centers as well. And learning experientially not just as a tourist, but actually being a member of the giving community, the the, the Dharma community, the practicing community. And so you've you had some kind of experience as a participant in the system. And so obviously, there was some kind of story you want to tell about the basic Nunnery experience. And that story is told both through interviews with the various nuns that are there as well as what through simply filming their daily routines. But what was it that you wanted to impart about Nunnery life to the outside viewer who might not have ever had an experience inside a Burmese Buddhist Nunnery let alone in Myanmar itself?
Kim Shelton 16:03
Yeah. Well, you know, really, it was just an exploration for myself, and my own curiosity, because I didn't know what I would find. And I was curious, I wanted to know what, what is their life? Like? What does it look like? Daily? What and I was really hoping they would be able to be to speak with me personally. And, and what are they thinking? And how long have they been here? And what are they going to do next? Are they always going to be here? I just all these questions that I had about these women who had chosen this life. So I just started with I think, my own curiosity, and just really wanting to find out and then be able to share that.
Host 16:49
And then what did you learn? If that was the curiosity that was driving taking on the project? What did you learn through doing the interviews through putting everything together through all the filming?
Kim Shelton 16:58
Yeah, well, so many things, you know, I mean, I think one thing that really amazed me about this nunnery and it's true, I think, for most missionaries, is that they really are a place for young abortion girls. So the nuns will go back to their villages and find girls that mean education that the parents are really poor, can't give them very much, and then they bring them back. And so that's definitely what should have been in this morning. That that was just really beautiful to see. Because they, they would come come there, and they would all have different dialects, they couldn't really speak with each other, and it took a while, and they would be missing there too. Or, you know, just, I spoke with some of them that just had different experiences when they first arrived, some where I want to go home and other ones, and I felt instantly, like they should be there. And and then it was interested in around age 1415 was the time where they, the girls, usually some many of them started to question. Do I want to stay here? Or do I really just the rest of my life? Do I want to maybe go and get married and have children and wear makeup and jewelry or so that was also an interesting thing to observe and to talk to some of the girls about. And then the ones that were just there and some of the older ones to or that was their life? It was really inspirational and also their dedication to practice with Australian, you know, for them, their practice was not so much meditation. Yes, they did meditate, and they did chant, but their practices, their their daily life feeling in their conduct and their behavior and their generosity, just, which is just everything that they do, I think, and you see that in action. Certainly how they had certainly how they treated us. Because I asked also at the end, I said, Well, I asked in the film, you know, so was it disruptive? And she said yes. You know, they're all of us. Yes, it was disruptive. But when someone really wants to know about Buddhism, we want to tell them and, you know, their dedication to their practice into Buddhism into spreading what Buddhism is to people that don't know, and they would do things like we'd have an interview. And then of course, there was lots of external sound and they were having some work done and these are these men cutting rebar, which was really loud. And so Sometimes we would wait for their break to their lunch, and then we do the interview. And then the nominees caught on that the sound was troublesome. So they would go out and tell the workers to take a break. And finally, when I realized that I said, No, no, I'm sorry, they have to work, we don't want to disrupt you that much, and that they would just do anything to be able to have us fulfill our goals. And that was, that was really amazing to be an experience.
Host 20:35
Yeah, there's a lot there that's really valuable to unpack and look at I appreciate how you were able to unpack and examine their what you refer to as their dedication to practice and the nuanced way you talk about it, because I think, as a Western meditator coming from Western meditative traditions, it's very common for us to delineate the formal practice time from the rest of daily life. And as I started to spend more and more time in Myanmar, and I did my own projects at the time to lead pilgrimages and write some guidebooks and give presentations in the West as well about my experiences in research and living there, I would find out we'd get a litany of questions that the questions were coming from one place where they had to be at had to actually be unpacked before they could be answered because they were they were coming from a set of assumptions and practice that was very different from how it was in Myanmar. And one of those questions was, how many hours do monastics meditate every day, which to a Western meditator was like a very straightforward, obvious question, well, I meditate two hours I meditate one hour in the morning, when I were an evening, how much do they meditate? And that question always troubled me, I understood it was coming, I understood the place that was coming from, which was fine and made sense, but it was very difficult to answer and it took me years to be able to parse out as you did all the different things that go into the monastic life the following the Vineya, the Donna give both receiving and and giving Donna and the protocols in which has done the chanting the some of the other ritual or ceremonial aspects, the study everything else that goes into it. And I would try to break down how this question is, because of the the way the practice is, is integrated holistically into a greater live life. You can't simply ask a numerical question, how many hours is this practice being done for you have to break down and then look at? Well, if you're, if you're if you talked amongst when they're on their arms rounds, many of them are practicing 30 minutes, 60 minutes, intensively of metta the entire time that that they're there on the arms round? So is that is that included as a medic, quote, unquote, formal meditative practice? And the more you start going into this nuance, this kind of question itself breaks down, which is really a wonderful learning moment, in and of itself.
Kim Shelton 22:57
Yeah, definitely. I think the other thing I really, that that, they said, and it was obviously you could just watch was how that the girls looked up to the headlines, and even just announced just a little bit older than then the ones that had been there longer. And they, they looked at my watch them, they looked up to whatever they did, and they I would, they would say, they would name people and just say, that's, that's my role role model, she is who I want to be, I strive very hard to be like her, you know, I want to have my ethical conduct and my, my, everything that I do I want I want to be that good. And then and it just is coming from such a place of just, it was heartfelt. I think that was the Word, you know. And another thing that I also wondered about was, whereas these nuns will well, will they? Are they going to let their guard down? Are they going to be a little playful? Am I going to see them just as regular people ever? You know, and I we did I think they just, they just really were so much fun in terms of just laughter and kind of joking around. I think that the word is really light and but the lightness of their being, because they just they just carried everything was awesome. And that extended to us, you know, just as welcoming generosity towards us and just sort of just just loving that we were there, you know, and we could be anyone. It was a personal it's really, we were there and they were going to serve us. Yeah, that was one of the one of the things that we would joke about is that, of course they didn't have very much money but they wanted to feed us breakfast. First, every morning, and we had to say, We, of course ate breakfast breakfast elsewhere, and we'd come in, then the food would be there, they put it out, which I know, please, you know, we've already eaten, you know, we know you want some food and because of course, that's their dollar, and we'd say, we're so full, we can't eat any. And then finally, we just we worked it out sort of, we knew that they needed to just do that for themselves, they had to do that. And so we say, okay, maybe just the peanuts and some hot chocolate, or whatever it was we we let, we just went through the ritual of coming in sitting, you know, having a drink or do something before we ever did anything. And it was, it was really nice. Yeah.
Host 25:50
Yeah. And I think the film really does represent an authentic look at the feel of a working nunnery and the different types of people that are there without necessarily exotic buying them, which I think is so important. When Westerners trying to come into a live spiritual practice anywhere, but especially in Asia, that they are able to tell the story from their point of view, there's no Western protagonist or, or foreign person who the story is being told through the if I remember correctly, the entire documentary is in Burmese with English translations, and we're just seeing their life live out. And, and we're also seeing the, as you suggested, just earlier, we're seeing the dynamic nature of the different characters there that it's not, it's not trying to represent these as one dimensional spiritual figures from a 2500 year ago cut out that they're just fitting into, but yes, this 2500 2500 year old tradition is guiding and informing their spiritual life. And as the heights they're looking to achieve, that's very clear. And yet, there's also dynamic personalities within that, that are, that are at different stages of what they're trying to achieve, as well as those that are their interests are being competed with, in terms of the material world. And you referenced a bit earlier about the the younger, younger nuns that were tempted by some of the things in the material world and actually in your documentary, there's, there's a scene of a, a one of those nuns who actually decides to disrobe and references how she likes to wear makeup, she likes to wear these different clothes, and you see her come back to the nunnery and have a series of interactions with her former nun sisters, as they're debating and talking about spiritual and the worldly life side by side. And it's, you know, it's it's I think what I really appreciated about it is it's not coming down and trying to say from a top down perspective, how one should be living or how didactically trying to explain what the nuns life should be and what it is, but it's actually depicting authentically what it is, as these things play out. And this very human drama element taking place that, I think is I think this is quite challenging for Westerners sometimes to understand, because we don't have really anything like a monastic tradition, normalized. In our society, of course, there's Christian monks, and there's even some Buddhist monks in our midst. But it's not anything like in Myanmar. And so to try to bring out this real world drama and dynamic of what it's like to choose a life that is in the world, in the sufferings and the pleasures of the world with a partner or a family money, things you can you can own and how you can live versus a renunciate life of none of that, and yet a simplicity that might fail more than worldly pleasures can. That's a really hard decision to make, and a really hard set of, of options that that one has. And so I think in those moments when that dynamic is present, it's really interesting to see how people within that society, even at that age are wrestling with and understanding the choices they have in front of them.
Kim Shelton 29:07
Yeah, definitely. One of the things that did surprise me was when they do their arms round, they they had to take a bus about an hour away, because they could not do their arms round right around the nunnery because that was the area reserved for the monks to do the art there or sometimes they will also go into Mandalay and I know now that they with just the way the government is and what's going on there that they can't do it an Angela and I don't actually know what's happening in Nunnery right now, the translator, I think is in the end on she's a German woman. And I don't I don't really know, I know she's probably keeping a low profile wherever she is. But so so that surprised me. They had to take this bus, they saw the buses, and these little teeny buses go far away. And that I don't think I realized that all they got was rice, dry rice, whereas the men and the boys will make on their arms around and get hot food and a big thing of rice, cooked rice into sort of a great looking meal that they can go home to. But the lens did not get that so much in the film also hope that whole part. And I think that that I remember asking one, was there anything that she felt was kind of the most? Or what did she feel is the most challenging part of being a man? And she did say that all around discipline and doing that not knowing if they were going to get enough food? And how far did they have to go? And it was the area where they went? Was that area going to be open to them? And were there going to be monks in that area also looking for food. So just not knowing I think for them was it's really hard, it's not guaranteed that they're going to get exactly what they need.
Host 31:17
And how did they understand that in their own thinking, I know you have an interview with one nun in there who fervently wishes that the next life she'll be reborn a man so that she can have better conditions. But did you find that there was a sense of unfairness or a sense of what they could do to try to try to bring about a greater just equality? Or was there was there some kind of acceptance or understanding and a social, religious, political kind of sense of of how things were divided? And how what was their thinking? And in looking at the obvious equity between the monks and nuns,
Kim Shelton 31:56
they it was really the only the only the one who wants to be a man and voice that she was the only one that voice anything like that. The rest were, it was it was kind of like, well, that's just the way it is. And they did not I didn't hear them, complain about it, or compare themselves to what the most gotten what they didn't get. They didn't they didn't. I don't even know what else indirectly, but I probably had an open ended question about what I noticed. I don't remember. But they they never went there and said anything about what we don't get compared to what the month except for the woman who wanted to be come back as a man so she could be a monk and she was not happy. Yeah.
Host 32:42
Well, let's take another listen to a clip from the film 1000 mother's
32:47
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Host 34:12
So another thing I noticed as an observer of the film was just how open and honest and real the the nuns were from a very young age to teenage years 20s And then older into the, the, the abbess of the nunnery quite open in terms of describing all different aspects of the nuns life and their own personal feelings with it. Was it? Was it challenging to get this kind of raw honesty out them? Did you have to have a series of conversations to get to that point, or did you find it just kind of flowed out from the start?
Kim Shelton 34:48
I think that had was that was my concern from the very beginning when I was looking at the different nunneries because I really didn't know if I'd be able to get that and some people had said you No, I don't know if you're gonna really give us kind of personal conversations. So it was, it was always a concern. But I feel that what happened in this instance was the camera woman, we had a all women team, camera woman and the sound woman and translators a woman. And were there just everyone, it was so open and friendly. And there's just such a great cruise that I should get just as the way we all came together. And I did not have to really work to do anything, it just sort of happened naturally. The openness, it just felt like this, this is the way these nuns are. And it's certainly the way they were with us. I'm not, I don't know if they're that way with everyone. But it happened that way. And I, I probably has a lot to do too, with. You know, the camera woman who has had Kristen Johnson travels and shot films all over the world just has a really great rapport with making people feel comfortable in front of a camera. And although they did not really know what a camera was in terms of a big camera. In fact, the funny story was i i One of the other questions I asked, as, at the end of it, I said, Did you think it was going to be like this, you know, that we would be doing multiple days, which I said, I know, I told you, it would be 10 days, but you know, you just never really know what that means. People, people don't really understand, of course, what, what the production of a documentary takes. And she laughed, and she just said, I thought you were just gonna come with your cell phone and just kind of, you know, put it out and, like, take photos of things. And that's what I thought the film was gonna be. No, she was really ugly. We all had the best laugh about that, because obviously, that's not what happened. You know, it was camera sound person and the translator in me, and, and then the translator, initially, Petra was very good in terms of sometimes I would just say, don't, don't turn around. And if you feel like there's a flow with the conversation, don't translate, don't give me everything back. You know, just don't break it don't break the flow of something. Because I said, you know, you know what I want to ask, we had a good connection and just keep it going for sometimes that happened. And then she told me later, or when it was okay to take a break. And she said, This is what happened. And then we go on the next direction. But you know, the, there's a meditating than the one that we she meditates in a cave. And she'd been doing that for three years. And we didn't think she'd want to be interviewed. But she did and very interesting. She, she would answer question and then close her eyes and just sort of go into like this deep samadhi or something. And just really still, and the first time she did that, the camera woman and the sound women just like looked at me like what's going on? Is she okay? She just sort of just got really quiet unless she I think she's fine. We asked the next question. She just slowly opened her eyes answered the question. And then just close your eyes again and went back. And then sort of that's how the interview went. But they were not used to seeing that at first.
Host 38:43
That's wonderful. And I think that also illustrates how you being a participant in that Buddhist culture, even if you're not Burmese gives you a certain kind of comfort and confidence in knowing how meditation can play a role even in the midst of one interview with someone checking in with themselves even as they're, as they're talking to you and and taking that time out for themselves. After you did the filming, I assume that and you produced the film, I assume that the nuns and the nunnery that were involved that they eventually got to see it. Do you know anything about the reception and their their thoughts on watching this completed work?
Kim Shelton 39:20
Yeah, I actually took the film back to them. And I took it the translator and my husband and I went several years after we'd finished it, and we had a blue projector and we projected it onto the wall in the in the nunnery was just a great scene because we had to get all these blankets and things to cover up. It was daytime we had to cover up the light coming in and it still wasn't very dark. But so it was big and they'd never ever seen anything big. That was I mean not big like movie theater but but I don't know 10 by 10 feet tall by 12 feet or bigger. And they just were silent and just so involved with like watching it and then and then afterwards, they said, Could we see it again. And they wanted to see it again. And then they're just very, very happy about it. What they saw and one girl, one of the girls who she was interviewed, I think, travel time, but she came up to me, she was learning English, so she could speak a little English. And she said, I just cried through the film. I don't know why. Now, it's really touching. You know, it's probably really moving for you to see your life reflected back to you, all of you. So yeah, taking it back was sort of one of the highlights of the whole experience.
Host 40:57
That's great. And another thing I'm wondering about you, again, you're coming not as an outside filmmaker who's looking for a subject, it's the other way around, you're actually coming for your own meditative experience. And while you're in the midst of it, you have this idea, you want to make a film about what spiritual path you're on, that relates to that these the nuns life. And so looking at that interaction, as you as you make preparations to do the film, you shoot the film, you have years of post production, and then it's completed. Did this whole experience and process do anything to inform your own meditation, your own spiritual practice? Did you learn anything in the, in the meditative or spiritual realm from your work?
Kim Shelton 41:41
Oh, you know, I so many things, it's like, yeah, I think, I don't even know where to start with that. In terms of my own practice. I think what I really learned to that from them was what I learned, I learned a lot about generosity, and, and not just generosity of heart and openness, and how to be, at least from my example, and then with working, you know, working with the footage for a year and a half, and just just their words, or their images just flooding me for that longer period. And, and I worked with an editor and the two of us together, you can't help it be affected by just, it's just this benevolence, and just this. trying, trying to, to cultivate the heart qualities and just live the heart. I feel like, I feel like they they like injected me with sort of a baseline of that. And then of course, you know, I fall off the wagon, how do I really live this that way in my own life, but like some of the younger nurses said about the older ones? No, they gave me they gave me something against an under to see how I could be in the world. And it's forever grateful for that.
Host 43:08
That's wonderful. And it's also remarkable dimension that you're talking about these deep spiritual life wisdom lessons that you're learning from, largely a group of teenagers that you're talking to you, obviously, you're speaking to people of all different ages, but many of them are quite young. And so you're talking about learning these profound lessons from people that don't have a lot of years, at least in this life on this earth. And yet they're through working with the material over and over the way that they live their life and what they're aspiring to is, is impacting you and teaching you on such a profound level.
Kim Shelton 43:41
Yeah, definitely. That's definitely true. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I
Host 43:47
definitely encourage viewers not just to watch the film, but to watch until the very, very end, because the last scene is actually my favorite scene in the documentary and that's where it's kind of this meta behind the scenes breaking down the fourth wall of the filming. And there's a question to one of the head nuns about if this was disruptive to their their life pattern? And she answers quite honestly like he was really disruptive. There are cameras everywhere, we couldn't really live with the according to the kind of discipline we're used to. But then she kind of pauses and says something like, but you know, it's all worth it. Because we this is allowing this, these precious teachings and this way that were molding our life to these teachings to be able to reach an audience we never could on its own. So to put up with this disruption in order to share and spread that message is is really worth it. And that hit me because I had almost a an identical conversation. Years ago, when I was at maganda Yan monastery, an AMA PR outside of Mandalay and this is one of the most famous monasteries in the country both to Burmese as well as to foreigners for different reasons I should mention maganda Yonsei Adele was one of the great academic monks of the 20th century who really tried to revise and, and work and rework the whole monastic education system. And yet for foreigners, somehow the mahogany on monastery has become like the monastery that every tour stops on not have pilgrims or pilgrimages, but just have normal tourists. And so the lunchtime is kind of a circus there. There's literally hundreds, sometimes over 1000 tourists, just busloads, they get off, they just take pictures of every aspect of these monks lining up. And the procession is listed in Lonely Planet. It's been referenced in National Geographic and so many other places. But it's really just become this kind of chaotic circus at lunchtime, where, at this very traditional, educationally minded monastery. And when I was writing about and researching it for a meditators guide, I wrote, I was speaking to some of the monks there. And I was asked, I asked the same question. And they basically gave the same answer. They said that, yes, it's very disruptive. And it's not really what we like is we're lining up. But one of them added something like, you know, if this for many tourists that come from Europe, from China, from Japan, from us, this might be really one of the only times in their life that they have an encounter with a monastic with a, a Buddhist monastic following the video and the tradition of the Buddha. And if even this one moment of interacting with a monk plant some seed in this life for the next, that is able to impact influence them, it's all worth it just to be able to have that that interaction that causes some kind of thinking. And he would this was years ago, and I still remember this conversation. So clearly, he went on to give this analogy of the moon. And he said, you look at the moon that's up there, this moon is not mine, it doesn't belong to me, this is a moon that's there and open for all. And so it needs to be shared and accessible to all this is the same as the Buddhist teachings, the Buddhist teachings are, are available and open to all no matter backgrounds, skin color, ethnicity, where someone comes from, this is something that everyone has access to being able to follow. And we can't claim any any privilege or write in how we follow it. And so if we're doing our best to follow these teachings in this practice, and a lot of people are showing up, well, that just becomes the practice itself. And this is something that we get to share, like the moon. So these thoughts came in my mind as I heard that that comment you had at the end of the the nun that acknowledged the disruption, but also went on to say that it was all worth it if if this is giving an authentic view of the renunciate, female renunciate nuns life in Myanmar to those that would never have access to it. So I'm wondering how that statement struck with you. Obviously, it must have had some impact if you included it in the final scene of your film, but where that landed with you when she said that?
Kim Shelton 47:52
Well, I just really appreciated her honesty. And, and the fact that her again, her dedication to her practice, that if somebody shows up and wants to learn about the practice of Buddhism, it's her job to tell them it's their job to do whatever they can. So we never felt unwelcome or in any way, we never really we noticed disruptive that we never, we never got a sense that they were unhappy that we were we were there it was, it was as if they were happy with it. They also got they got to do their job to which is to teach us to teach the world through the film. So that was something that they could offer and we're happy to do so.
Host 48:42
And I asked about the reception in that Nunnery itself, flipping that question on its head and the as this film was screened to Western audiences, many of whom didn't have a lot of contact with Buddhism or Myanmar nunneries. What, what kind of comments or learning Did you find from those who saw the film and they were seeing this kind of lifestyle for the first time? What did they take away from it?
Kim Shelton 49:04
Well, one of the main comments at first was oh, my gosh, that takes, you know, because it's so vibrant, their their route color that you just see these, this pink color all over the place. That was something that I think really surprised people, the color of the roads. And again, I think similar to what I felt was just people feel they're kind of the unclouded pneus of their hearts. They're really trying to live and actually, you know, that their whole volley system. And yeah, hundreds of people say I just felt this feeling of being refreshed after after watching it or the lightness of and you can feel their love coming through. Certainly we felt that and I think some of that people in the audience would feel that To
Host 50:02
Yeah, that's really nice. Of course, you've made this film a couple years ago, the last year has been traumatic at so many levels. And I think for all of us with any connection of any kind to me and Mark, just learning about the initial coup A year ago, and then following the day to day, month to month news has just been devastating on so many levels. So I'm wondering what it's been like for you, as I asked this question, I realize it's a a pretty obvious question that it's been hard on all of us. And so I'm sure that's the answer for you, too. But I'm wondering more specifically, like how to, to a country that you've been so connected to with your spiritual practice with your travels with the film that you made the connections and people you've made there? What is it been like being afar and learning steadily as the news gets worse and worse?
Kim Shelton 50:54
Yeah, it's really painful. It's cuz it's personal. Because I know, I know, some of the people that live there and but I and then when I addressed the, the, the nuns, we're not going into Mandalay and certain areas were cut off. And so just just knowing that the areas where they could get food where it would be restricted, and just kind of thinking, well, who's bringing them food? Or how are they getting donations? So I'm, I do worry, I worry about I also on the other side, feel like, well, you know, the Hatha practice, and it's really a strong practice, and hopefully it's going to get them to this and the, the translator who was in Yangon, I have not, as I mentioned her, I haven't heard much from her. I think she was the country. I know she changed her name on her Facebook page. And she left the country for a while. I don't know if she's back. I don't know, I really don't know if I also worry about her. I know. I know. She won't be somewhere where it's dangerous. But she she's lived there for a long time that was her home. So it's just it's really sad with and then with not really knowing what's going to happen. It just keeps going. And also knowing that I don't really know what's going to happen. I get I know, I get little bits and pieces of the news, but not really, I think it's much worse than what I'm reading. So that discouraging to
Host 52:33
yeah, that's all great to hear. And we definitely encourage listeners to check out this film, it's streaming, you could watch it for free at the Burma spring benefit Film Festival, you are prompted to give donations for those that are able to the donations go to a wide range of humanitarian missions in the country. However, the films are this one and many others are open and accessible for all to come and watch. This is from February 1 to 13th. So I really encourage listeners not to miss that there's really great and unique films there that show aspects into so many different parts of Myanmar, it's great that you have allowed your film to be a part of this and to be shown so many people can see it during during this time. And and it's been great talking to you as well. And just hearing the behind the scenes of how this was made, where the idea came from and some details about the process of it. I've definitely learned a lot. So thanks so much for coming on and sharing that.
Kim Shelton 53:33
Well. Great, thank you so much. It's fun to talk about again. Yeah, it's close to my heart.
Host 53:45
Thanks for joining us, for today's episode, been a small mostly volunteer team. Our production time for a single episode before the coup was sometimes as long as four months from start to finish. While we had worked at decreasing the lead time, the fastest we were ever able to manage was just around three weeks. During this current crisis where even a single day's event can produce such shocking news and urgent needs. We simply don't have this luxury of time. So we've worked around the clock to substantially shorten the length of our production cycle. The turnaround for some episodes now has been just 36 hours. However, we can't accomplish this goal without your support. If you found value in today's episode and think that others may also benefit from this type of content. Please consider making a donation so that we can continue our mission. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military coup. We welcome your contribution, any form currency or transfer method. Your donation will go to support a wide range of humanitarian missions at those local communities who need it most. Donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movements EDM families of deceased victims, internally displaced person, IDP camps, food for impoverished communities military election campaigns, undercover journalists, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies COVID relief and much more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs. You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution for a specific activity or project you would like to support, perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode. All of this humanitarian aid work is carried out by a nonprofit mission that or Burma. Any donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fund. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website better burma.org That's BETTRBUR ma.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause, and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either the Insight Myanmar better Burma websites for specific links to those respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org. If you'd like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration and support.