Transcript: Episode #331: Bridge to Nowhere
Below is the complete transcript for this podcast episode. This transcript was generated using an AI transcription service and has not been reviewed by a human editor. As a result, certain words in the text may not accurately reflect the speaker's actual words. This is especially noticeable when speakers have strong accents, as AI transcription may introduce more errors in interpreting and transcribing their speech. Therefore, it is advisable not to reference this transcript in any article or document without cross-referencing the timestamp to ensure the accuracy of the guest's precise words.
00:10
Mo, K, du, K, dua, go see ya kin Yang Da Suu kya Mimi Rokan San mi ma gi du Gita boundary B Yangon.
00:48
Yangon San,
01:00
Aung, Nain, JAA, ba, Zi, MI, Ma, ti du gi da bound, and Mimi do,
Host 01:41
Whether one is listening to this in Myanmar or from outside the country, we know it is a very difficult time for those of us who hold the golden land and its people in our hearts. In trying times like these, we can all use a bit more care and compassion in our lives. So on behalf of the team here at Insight Myanmar, I would like to say, in the traditional way that meta is offered, may you be free from physical discomfort. May you be free from mental discomfort. May You not meet dangers or enemies, and may you live a peaceful and happy life. And May all beings be free and come out of suffering. and with that, let's move to the show.
Host 03:09
Sayalay, thank you for Joining Insight Myanmar podcast.
Sayalay 03:41
Thank you for having me here.
Host 03:44
So we are just calling you by your honorific, saya le. And for those who don't know Burmese language, saya le means none. And we're not calling you your full name out of safety and security, and we're welcoming you to this program to talk about how the sagain hills have been impacted. The sagain hills are a place famous and beautiful, actually the place dearest to my heart in Myanmar, where there are so many nuns, there's a long history of intensive meditation and Vipassana practice. There are monasteries throughout these hills, and the devastation has been pretty extreme by the earthquake, and I have been very eager, and I know that other those people who have also felt that deep, spiritual heart connection to the sagain hills have also been left wondering about their fate. And so saya le, thank you so much for being able to come on this program and update all of us about what were, what you're learning and your friends are learning about what has been happening there this last week.
Sayalay 04:50
Yeah, yes, my friend told me it is like the crumble of the world, because everywhere, everywhere. A is destruction. So it's so massive that all of them can have themselves, and they just have to wait for the have from the outside. So for the time being, yes, there are some. Have they received, but it cannot cover all the areas because the destruction was so extensive. And the thing is, as you know, Sakai Hill is connected with the town by the bridge. And this, again, bridge was collapsed, and we have two second bridge that can cross over to the guy Hill. One is totally collapsed, but the other, yeah, was damaged as well, with a crack on it. So yeah, no, all the vehicles are allowed to pass over through the bridge. Another thing is the area was considered a red zone for the junta, so they don't allow all the Vatican's to pass through. And the security checkpoint, soldiers and police there are doing the intensive checking, so most of the volunteers, when they had the news only after two days of the earthquake, because after two days they re get, they get the Wi Fi and mobile data Back. Because in between, there was no connection at all. So now all the people are wearing what works actually happening there. And when people got to know about the news, they got to go there to help. But the problem works. It works, as I told you earlier, the security works so strict that everybody cannot bring all the items they might need to use to help to remove the victims under the rubber, yeah, so Only the food items they are launched to to go there, to pass, to distribute there. So that's the problem with this guy here, the victims, then, for the time being, yes, the International Rescue teams coming in to help the people there, but they still cannot go to the zaka hill. Yet there is no international security team reached there. And the situation, as you know, the zaka hill is mostly the monks and nuns practicing the Buist predicts. So they don't have much. How should I say actually, they need more help from the devotees. And there's isolated area, some of the places the volunteers cannot reach there yet, because it was quite isolated. And some of the rubber tea cannot be removed, yet, most of the rubber cannot be removed, and the some of the yen and the monks stay underneath and still cannot be evacuated, and most of them have already passed away, and the foul smell already started to spread. And so for the time being, this is the condition they are facing because of this district, extensive, massive restructuring, they have the safety issue. They have survivor issue like clean water, access, medical aid, etc.
Host 09:19
Thank you for sharing that description say, lay I'm so sorry to hear about the devastation and the lack of aid and support that has gotten through. And I think you're correct in saying that a lot of these sites in the sagain Hills are very remote. That is why the sagain hills have been appealing for not just decades, but so many centuries that it was a place for renunciation, for contemplation, for meditation, for intensive practice and and so when you have these extremely remote sites, in some cases, in other cases, at the base of the hill, they're more accessible, but it certainly makes it hard for. Or anyone to get through, even in normal times, even walking through the segaian Hills, there were, there's a lot of mystery there. There are a lot of places that were kind of hidden away or took walks or hard treks to be able to get to. And so I wonder, I want to go through the various stages of relief attempts and blockages and and more of a current update. But before we do, I want to stay on the event of the earthquake itself. Have have you, I understand you're not currently in the sagain Hills, but you've been very active in in relief efforts and trying to understand what's happening and support
Sayalay 10:37
the Seta data Nunnery is you see well known nunnery. So only this Nunnery itself. There are no casualty. So the thing works. We have no experience of such massive, you know, earthquake before, yeah, so we are not prepared how to face this situation. So when the earthquake happened, we a lack of the knowledge how to face this situation. That's one reason. It has caused more casualties, and then, when the building suddenly collapsing, most of them were trapped. Firstly, they are no way that they should take the precaution, how to make themselves safe, all these things and, yeah. So it happened just very sudden, so nobody were prepared, like some of the places, yeah. Suddenly the buildings were collapsed, yeah, so one of the monks, my friend, mentioned that, when this thing happened, they can do anything and they just have to run away. And, yeah, everything they can survive is ruined by the earthquake, like some of the people, yes, they are safe, but yeah, they utensils, like, example, for cooking items, everything were destroyed. So they need help to get from someone who are safe and who can mobilize at the area. So that's the reason we have been helping people sending donation to them. And those who are saved from the earthquake, they will go to this other towns and nearby places, get the items that can be distributed among others. So one of my friends, a monk from this guy Hill, his monastery also affected by the earthquake. So like his water tank, made of concrete, was destroyed, and other buildings got a crack, and they are not safe to stay inside, yet, all of them were saved and no groceries. So he go to town and get all the groceries and distributing a man the victims, especially to those who are old and unable to move around the monks and nuns. So he is helping in this way. And some of my friends who are from Zakai town, they will go down to the Zag Hill, and then they will get the list of the casualties and the list of the effort that nunneries and getting the list first, and they are getting help from the these enthusiastic donors, helping to distribute whatever items donated to them directly, so that now the situation is, yeah, is Getting better, but there are a lot of things we need from international humanitarian aid so that they can better, you know, the condition better. And for the time being, they still have the problem with the Clean Water assess, and most of the water sources like, you know, previously they have this Sitagu water supply to the Zakat Hill also just shrink. So, yeah, some of the places getting the water track to get the water supply and medical aids as. Well and but the problem works, to get all these clean water medical aids. Yes, they are getting it now, but the problem works. The wrappers files are still there, and they are still cannot clean up yet, and some of the dead body are still trapped underneath. So, yeah, it is, it has been causing, you know, it is really head hazard, if they cannot remove all these in time. Because, yeah, the bodies rotten up, and the smell spreading around, and no clean water access, and the nuns and monks are staying in the open space, and so this is the condition because the government itself, yeah, they are so busy and they cannot concentrate when this, you know, when this issue to have the victims so they cannot get a proper help from the government. Another thing is, the government is so strict, the junta is so straight along the rescue team, they won't allow anybody to go everywhere. So example, my friends, when they went to go to Zakai to have the victims there. They cannot bring whatever items they want to bring along, and some of the donors, they reached to the victims and distributed the items, the donated items, but certainly some of the police and abuse already is the Affiliated Organization of the junta. So they all came up and asked them, What are they doing? Then ask for the permission, if they are just distributing the items themselves. They will grab and they won't let them do this donation. That's the condition Myanmar, so, yeah, we need to be very careful in helping the people to reach to the victims as necessary and as donated by the you know these generous donors. So these are the areas we need to think about when you are doing this charity work to the victims. So it depends on where you are going. If you are going to Mingo. Mingo is a place like saga, which has, yeah, a lot of monks and nuns practicing and contemplating and renouncing the yet there are, you know, the opposite, yeah, PDFs organization, so they're fighting there. The people wanted to have the victims there, yet they can't go there at all.
Host 18:10
So mingoon is still inaccessible.
Sayalay 18:13
Yes, the inaccessible,
Host 18:17
And that's because of the and it's inaccessible because it's an active conflict zone between PDF and soldiers.
Sayalay 18:25
Yes, I must say so, because they are, they are still fighting there, and nobody dared to go there.
Host 18:31
So I want to go back to those first couple days in the sagain Hills after the earthquake, because you mentioned that they could not use their cell phones because there was no connectivity, and because of the bridge going out and the and the soldier blockades and the roads being damaged, no one could get in. So those, I believe I read a report that something like 90% of the monasteries and nunneries, about 2000 had been destroyed. So those first couple days, they must have been hellish. I mean, they must have been so, so, so terrible for to for those that survived or was trying to survive, just devastation everywhere, and very little support, very little place you could go for medical, for food, for shelter,
Sayalay 19:24
yeah, when Yeah, this earthquake happened, most of the people were in shock. So yeah, they were is, is the condition is really very messy, and each another cannot have much because, yeah, the concrete rubbers are so big, or these so they, you know, those who survived, yeah, they have. The victims. And, yeah, those who have these casualties at their own nunneries, they were helping the outsiders to come and help to remove the rubbers and remove the you know, have the victims to remove from the rubber. And the thing is, you know, some of the places they can just, you know, sit and wait and see what is happening, because they themselves cannot have, and they cannot get, yeah, from the outside, to have that period of time during the first and the second day of the earthquake. I
Host 20:43
just can't imagine how difficult that must be. And it's just it's recalling memories of Nargis. You know, their memories of Nargis, where entire villages were washed away, where only a few people had managed to survive, and they were just walking. There's just this after cycle, of Nargis had come. There's just this land of dead bodies, bloated bodies, and just a few survivors from a few different towns, kind of walking through these villages, trying to survive. There are these stories that have come from Nargis, and what you're painting in the sagain Hills, it reminds me of those, those nightmarish stories of of entire monasteries and nunneries, one after the other after the other, that all collapsed, instantly, killing or slowly killing or trapping so many people that so many monks and nuns and novices, especially that that couldn't get out, and as they were dying, the smells and the disease starting to spread, and the survivors having to crawl through this rubble and and have very little support for the food and medicine and shelter and everything else i i Just it is so painful for me to hear about this condition in a place, a geographical place In Myanmar that has meant so much for me. It is, it is just very painful to to to hear this, this characterization and description of those first couple days and, you know, and continuing to today as well.
Sayalay 22:17
Yeah, yes, this, that's why we really feel, you know, very grateful to those who want to help us. And for the time being, we, we cannot reliant on the junta at all, and we just need to, you know, get, you know, we, we hope we get the support from the international donor so that we can be able to build up slowly to the normal condition. So, yeah, there are a lot of things we need to, you know, take action, like getting clean water and getting the housing camps all these actually, for the time being. You know, there are a lot of places where people cannot stay inside their houses, although their houses were not collapsed yet because the structure inside is already very dangerous for them to stay in. So they have to sleep outside and stay outside. And how long can they do? So that's the main problem. The government should take action, and they should, you know the government should provide the housing camp for them to stay safe, and providing the clean water for them, and providing Medicaid aids all these and I can understand the situation Inside Myanmar, because this is very extensive affected earthquake, and so the government cannot cope, and yet, yeah, there are things they can take on. Like, you know, they they should stop bombing the places affected, at the affected area, they should stop fighting each other, and this is the time they should, you know, concentrate on helping the victims, not on war and not on holding the power. So, yeah, that's, that's the reason, yeah, you know, we cannot rely on this winter at all. And, yeah, I'm really very grateful that you are helping to the victims in Myanmar. So yeah. So I really appreciate for that.
Host 24:52
So going back to the role of the junta, the government, as you call them, many, many people don't use that word for the male. Military regime, because they don't fit many definitions of what a government is or should be. But looking at this military regime, to what degree have they been present in sagaian hills? Have there been soldiers leading to the road or in the hills? Have they been helping in any way? Have they been blocking aid from happening. What can you say about the presence of the soldiers around the segaian hills?
Sayalay 25:26
The soldiers? Yes, they are. They involved in helping the victims, but I must say they are more for sure, and because they are not trained like the rescue teams, how to have the victims. So what they were doing is really there is no efficacy and efficiency. And so that's the reason, when they started to help the people, the people you know, cannot take their action as well because they were too slow and just doing it for sure, that kind of thing. And Julie the army itself, I am not very sure about it, because I don't read all the news about this all these fighting because I want to emphasize more on the positive construction, so I neglected all these news. But what I understand, they also have some limitation. So for the time being, even when the soldiers came out to help the people, you know, their perception with them is very different from about 10 years or 20 years ago, and now the image is very bad. So yeah, even when they are helping, yeah, there is no efficacy. So yeah, yes, they do involve, but yeah, I must say what they are doing is compared to our volunteer, youth volunteers, is nothing because, like Myanmar, youth volunteers, yeah, they also have no proper training for residue. Yeah, like other residue teams from international countries, they are trained by experiences like example, Myanmar has so many disasters before, like nagis. When naggies happened, the international organization wanted to help, wanted to come in, but yeah, the junta stopped, then they won't allow them to come in. So yeah, what the people in Myanmar, doing they need to, you know, help themselves. So, yeah, they trained by experiences. Since then they know how to help the victims all these. Yeah, we have, you know, this flat, all these, but the problem, no, all these youth involved in this disaster management, most of them were not around. Some of them have already, you know, in in in the prison, and some of them are fighting at the border. Some of them were seized by the junta. Yeah, to work for the army and the youths. They didn't come out as soon as the advocate happened, I called my friend from Myanmar, because I call my friend from Moe. You are my native hometown, because they were very active during our university days. So I told them, why? No, we have them and get the machine, like heavy machines that can bring up, that can live, live off the bricks, yeah, the rubbers and go there. Live off the rubbers. And we are trying to, you know, remove the people trapped underneath. And yeah. Then my friend replied me, if I do so, straight away, yeah, the junta will come and grab me and put me in prison because it's not allowed to do so we have so many things, yeah, although, you know, we are very, you know, very active in helping. All these, yeah, we have a lot of restrictions. And my friend told me, another friend told me, even all the items they cannot bring in, and the security checkpoint personnel will check, and if they see even a small knife or that kind of things, the kind of, you know, items which they can use for fighting, yeah, then they won't allow so they'll help needed, not reaching to the victims as required. That's the reason more casualties happening, like I think you know about it, like the Great War incidents, actually, when, yeah, you know the earthquake, you know, cause the destruction in mentally, most of the affected areas, some of them don't allow the people to, you know, to do the kind of, you know, digging art all these because they have some items, precious items, which they wanted to be hidden. But like for the guy here, there is no no items for them to hit, but yet is to even to reach to the guy down to go to Sky Hill. Yeah, they have the problems crossing over the bridge and but yeah, now the condition is much better compared to the earlier days, as soon as after the earthquake episode, then now is much better. So people can go there and people still can help them and but yeah, what I had the news, like the nunneries, the rubbers underneath. There are still some nuns and monks, and they wanted to remove the rubbers, but they need to hire the machine, heavy machine, to remove these. But they need to pay them, and the problem works. The problem is they don't have enough money to pay them to use their heavy machine, so not all of the nunneries will be able to, you know, hire the workers and the heavy machine to remove the drivers and set it down. So for the time being, I think that's what we are doing at other places, not at second hill. We distribute the certain amount of money to the victims. You know, some of the victims, they have the casualties. If they have casualties, we give more. If they have no casualties, we give a little bit lesser than the former one. So we give the money. The reason is when, yeah, they want to do something which can be done only by the money. They can use it like, example, getting the machine to remove the rubber they need to hire the heavy machine. Yes, there are some volunteers, you know, doing free work. Yeah, even you know the heavy not only the heavy machine, they even provide the volunteers to help them, but it's very small amount compared to the extensive area. There's the problem. So, yeah, now I'm collecting the money to distribute to the victims with the Fauci teas, or no Fauci teas, to the victims who want to remove the rubbers to get the heavy machine so that they can do whatever needed for them. When they can remove it, there will be no dead body underneath, so there will be no environment pollution, and so it will prevent the health hazard. You know, you know that can happen if it is neglected.
Host 34:34
So it sounds like you're coming back and emphasizing again and again that one of the most critical things that's needed in the sagain Hills are these machines that can break concrete into and rubble into smaller pieces so that they can remove them and remove the corpses and and you know at this point, if there's there happens to be anyone else at the. It's getting less and less likely, but at least to be able to remove the corpses and diseases. So this, this machine that can break up the rubble, which is starting to be seen in Mandalay and some other places that this is what's most needed in the sagaian Hills now for the collapsed monasteries and nunneries. Is that correct?
Sayalay 35:20
Yes.
Host 35:24
So may I know how much do, first of all, can these machines be acquired in the region fairly easily? And if so, how much do they cost?
Sayalay 35:37
Okay, the symbol of the B, ba are charging by hour, like one hour they would charge 200,000 jets, Myanmar jets in dollar will be is about nearly $50
Host 35:58
so $50 an hour to hire a man with a machine to break up the rubble and start clearing disease in the segyn Hills. Is that correct? Yes, you're right. So I want to put, I want to be clear with this, because I want to put out a message urgently to our supporters, and we're going to rush this podcast out so that those can listen, that that this is where your donation can go, that $50 can buy an hour of clearing the rubble and and removing those bodies that are trapped there, and being able to to restore health and safety sooner to those people living there. And we certainly hope that donors can step up and support better Burma, our organization has already pledged to support you with whatever existing funds that we have, and we're talking with you and those that you're talking with to urgently be able to send funds to help. But there's so much that's needed, and so we just really want to emphasize that sagain Hills, this is a place that that that has not received so much attention and and it has not been so accessed, and there are many monks and nuns and novices, again, that are suffering in those conditions and and put out this plea to be able to help them more and more Beyond what whatever we're able to do already.
Sayalay 37:22
Yes, please. So yeah, this is the first theme we need to have from the from you all, like removing the rubbers, getting the green water, Medicaid and, yeah, the temporary housing camps, yeah, for the monks and nuns to stay safe, yeah? So, yeah, these are the items we really need, other help.
Host 37:50
That's a lot. Yeah, we just mentioned the one piece that you referred to earlier, of the rubble clearing. But yes, food, medicine, clean drinking water. This is harder to find in the sagain Hills than than most places there. There's a Burmese expression, and I don't remember the Burmese, but I remember the English translation that one monk many years ago, maybe a couple centuries ago, said that in order to come to the sagain Hills, you needed two things, and that was clean drinking water and Sheila or Dila or morality. In other words, for the monks and nuns who came to the sagain Hills, they needed to to have good morality, solid moral, ethical base, to be able to live in that kind of wild environment. And they also needed water. These were the only two things you needed to survive. Because even as you were living deep in the forest, having clean sources of drinking water was always hard to come by. And this is what made, you know, years ago, situgu sayadaws designing the clean water systems all throughout the hills, this was really revolutionary, because before that, monks were just able to try to collect the rain water in whatever kind of tanks they had and then hope that that would last them until the next rainy season. And so clean drinking water, this is in any disaster. I'm emphasizing this because in any disaster, clean drinking water is important, but clean drinking water in the sigin Hills takes on a different connotation based on the history than you find in other places. Because,
Sayalay 39:26
yeah, these are the Argent things they need after that they have to slowly build up again. Like, example, you know, the schools that has been destroyed and the hospitals, yeah, you know, just trying to find earthquake or these, yeah, we have to slowly, you know, beat up again. So for the time being, for the victims, they need these urgent things. But I've mentioned earlier, I.
Host 40:00
Here, right? And it's, it's, it's painful to imagine the building that process of the amount of work and funds that will take in a country that has already suffered so much and there's so little resources to go around as it is.
Sayalay 40:16
Yeah, yes. So I must say that this time we were lucky, although, yeah, this is really very heartbroken situation. Okay, so this time we are lucky, because the government, Aung, the international humanitarian organizations, to come in so that we can help, yeah, we can get help from them. We can get help from Yeah, you know, like, generous kind help us from across the world,
Host 40:56
but they're not allowed in the sagaian Hills, from what you said,
Sayalay 41:00
it's not about allowing Tun hill. They allow the organizations to come in now and during the first and second days of the earthquake, there was no there were no international organizations coming in yet, and only the Myanmar citizens are helping themselves, so when they want to go there, yes, there are restrictions. Yeah, they were, you know, the checkpoint personnels at the zagai Bridge, they will check all the items wherever you are going to bring there. So, yeah, that kind of very strict checking. And if they feel this person is not, you know, suitable to go, then they will stop you you cannot go. Yeah, we have that kind of issue. And it doesn't mean they totally stop help going there. And I'm not saying so, because, yeah, they stay along Sam to go there that they they will do more checking on the items. Because, yeah, you know, at the area, they also consider a lot of PDF staying there, so they don't want the all these help to go to the PDF. So, yeah, that's the reason.
Host 42:23
So in other words, there were Burmese that were coming to the sagain Hills to provide urgent resources for survival. Of those monks and nuns that were were trying to survive from the earthquake, and some of the soldiers did not allow these relief goods to go in, some cases, because they were afraid that this food, medicine, shelter was going towards PDFs and not going to save the monks
Sayalay 42:49
and nuns. Yes, most likely. So this is just my assumption. Okay, because, yeah, we don't have the open discussion. Why you don't allow me to go there, that kind of thing. Nobody dared to say so. Nobody dared to ask them. So,
Host 43:06
okay, right now, another thing I want to mention is the trauma. Part of it, the mental pain and anguish being suffered my friends who have been in the segyn hills that I've spoken to since this they reference not being able to sleep and their body still shaking. Children that are that are afraid to go inside any structure whatsoever. What are you hearing about the trauma that those survivors are facing in the skyne Hills?
Sayalay 43:37
I think the thing is the same, like, yeah, some of the yen and one of the yen. And said she doesn't live in the building at all, yeah, she just want to live in the open space now, because she's very scared. She doesn't want any building anymore. The kind of thing they have, yes, this is kind of both the post earthquake trauma and most of the yen. And they really get affected by this earthquake, because some of them passed away under the rubber and nobody can dig them out yet, and they get the dreams like the the, you know, the the person, the their friend underneath the rubbers, give them the dream, yeah, she wanted to come out. She cannot come out, the kind of thing. So, yeah, they're having a lot of trauma I can understand because, you know, is, is very certain everything happened very sudden. Suddenly, yeah, we were talking happily. Then, yeah, the next minute you were gone. So yeah, it's very hard for them to get adaptation to the current situation. And so they have a lot of phobia, even to stay inside the building. And not only the phobia the building themselves, it's not safe for them to stay now. And they need to, you know, destroy the building and build the new camp over there. Yeah. So, yeah, to do. So first of all, they need to get the machine to remove the rubbers away. Then, you know, after that, after removing all these, yeah, they can, you know, get their housing camp for the temporary housing camp, yeah. So this kind of thing, we need to help them, yeah, to, you know, to overcome their mental trauma.
Host 45:44
I hear that that's that's a really traumatic thing to have to live through and deal with. And you mentioned that some of the young nuns have had dreams, or I might use the word nightmares the way you described. They've had nightmares of their friends, their their dead friends, their other young nuns that that were were crushed and killed, that they're calling out to them. I mean, that's, that's, that's terrifying, that that's so difficult to hear. It makes me think also of, again, going back to Nargis, and then also the tsunami in Japan, that there were a lot of stories of people encountering ghosts in those places to whatever degree one wants to believe in that there, there were, you know, there. There's a belief that ghosts occur when a death is very sudden and the being doesn't realize that that their life is lost and they're, they're, they're floating. That's one belief in the supernatural, and certainly in after Nargis and after the tsunami in Japan, there were a lot of stories coming out about people encountering ghosts who would not realize that they had died.
Sayalay 46:55
Yes, for the gun here, yeah, there's the story I mentioned just now the yangons, they know to stay in the buildings they are having dreams. And not only that, is not in Sakai, not in the hill, yeah, it happened some way in mentally. And this person was trapped in the rubbers, and nobody can, you know, remove the dead body. Actually, it has been, he has been, already passed away. And he, you know, is like a spirit possessed to his mother and telling his mother, yeah, nobody can dig him out. And yeah, there are so many, yeah, so many people with him. And then yeah, his mother was so sad. And he his mother to the restituting, yeah, to have to, you know, dig out his his San and his son said there are so many people with him, they are still alive. And when, yeah, she told the rest two team, yeah, nobody can take action, because they also already overwhelmed with a lot of things. So, you know, this is the very heart broken situation we have now.
Host 48:29
Oh, my God, I don't even know what to say. I mean, you're saying that the spirit of a dead son traveled to the mother and told the mother that he had died, but that there were people living trapped in the rubble that could still be saved, and where the location was, the mother told the rescuers and they couldn't go there because there weren't enough resources. I mean, I'm just, I'm just overwhelmed by hearing this story.
Sayalay 48:58
Yeah. So, yeah, that's why we, you know, for the time being, we really, you know, rely on you all, yeah, to to get help from the generalized and kind Yeah, people from overseas, so that we will be able to, you know, move on Truly. You know, there are so many stories, and for the time being, another thing I want to emphasize is about the safety of the people, because some of the people, the houses were destroyed, so they have no place to stay. So they were, yeah, you know, they would take whatever positions they have and live on the street, and when they are living with this tree, it's not safe, because since the COVID, you know, there's longer regulations and the security of the country. Yeah, is deteriorating day by day. The condition is going towards and was so, yeah, for those people living on the street with their perceptions, are not safe, yeah? They, you know, yeah, they have to worry for theft and robbery and people there, due to the, you know, the political crisis for very long period. They are deep in the poverty. So when this thing happened, some of the people, you know, they are taking the advantage. So this is my concern for the people living on the street, and they will not be able to live on the street for very long. This is the government's responsibility. They must take action to make a safe, you know, housing camp for them, but no action was taken yet. I've
Host 50:58
seen the videos in Mandalay, and they're just heartbreaking. I mean, I've seen videos of of of kind of the this in the traffic, the the concrete that's between the the two traffic lanes, people sleeping there, of by the MOE. I've just seen videos of mass homelessness all over Mandalay, and people just sleeping on concrete with tarps over them and just the few belongings they've carried out.
Sayalay 51:28
Yes, you're right.
Host 51:31
So we've discussed Sayagyi, hills, mingoon, Mandalay, what other areas have also been dramatically affected that you're involved with. I
Sayalay 51:42
am involved with people helping at the region of Nabi do, and Nabi do was badly affected as well. I think that's the reason this time government along the international humanitarian age to come inside the country. Because previously, wherever disaster occurred in Myanmar, they won't allow the international humanitarian aids to come in easily. But not this time, because this time, even the government offices and the housings, even the hospital and the control center of the airport, all were destroyed. And when they this, you know, the upgrade, destroy the military offices and all these related places, then, yeah, they have no choice. They have to ask for the international humanitarian aids. If this thing happened only to the common citizens, I'm not sure they were even allowed their humanitarian aids to come in. So I must say this is one lucky point, although this is really a bad thing happened to us, and so, yeah, I hope these people affected at napidor Now I'm involved in helping them, distributing The money to them, and getting the cleaning water, providing them all these and the same thing the affected area there some of the bee BA, they can't do anything. Just sit and wash the victims. That's all because some of the remote places, they don't get help, and yeah, they themselves, cannot help themselves. So that's the thing, that's the reason we are helping. We are trying to help to the remote places where people might not get help from other people. So like example in pure boy, which is near nipido, yeah, it works badly affected by the earthquake and yeah, then even the hospital itself has no water, so it's very dangerous. And this is, this will become the source of the, you know, the efficient to spread around. So, yeah, we are trying to, you know, help them getting the, you know, distributing the clean water to the hospital and the people of the affected area there.
Host 54:38
Have you ever done anything like this before, and what has been your own personal experience of of where, where you're sitting and trying to help from this distance.
Sayalay 54:48
I before I became a nurse, I involved in all these humanitarian aid like you know, I was a member of i. CRC in Singapore. And when I was working as a nursing lecturer at ite college east in Singapore, we will be, you know, doing the fundraising for the victims of arche, this Nagy cyclone, all these so I myself have some experience in helping the victims, so that's the reason when, yeah, this thing happened, although I'm a nun, yeah, I were, you know, I was suddenly elected. Oh, okay, this is the thing I need to do. Then straight away, have asked my friends to do the fundraising. Then after that, I was straight away we sent the other money to the guy Yeah, to go to the actually, the first donation I made works sending fortified 450,000 jets to the guy Hill. Yeah, I contacted one from the BA Hill and distributed this amount of money, you know, to go to the victims and to help them out. So, yeah, one thing great is I have, yeah, I worked in before I worked in, I have this project management, and I have this fundraising experiences and involving in this, you know, ICRC activities. So that's the reason, yeah, when this kind of natural disaster strike at my own country. Then I were straight away alerted, and I will start doing all these, whatever I think necessary for me to do.
Host 56:52
That's wonderful to hear your background. It's wonderful to hear these other projects that you've been involved in before this, and you're now finding yourself at the Center provide, providing this, this urgent relief. Are you, are you affiliated with any group or organization in carrying this out, or are you simply a volunteer that's trying to do what you can for your country from a distance?
Sayalay 57:17
Actually? Yeah, I have already formed an organization in 2022 and 2000 Yes, 2020 22 to 23 and we name it mid downstream Foundation. And actually all of us, the we wanted to help the people. That's the main reason. There's the main objectives. Because the period of time the junta, you know, started when the villages down and the villages affected by Aung San of this junta, near my hometown. So I have the responsibility, you know, to take action, to have the victims. So that's the reason, yeah, we formed a group, Mida string Foundation, and, yeah, because I'm a Nan, so I don't involve much. Then after that, I concentrate on my study and practice. Yet this time when this earthquake happened, yeah, I have to, you know, active again, because these are the things we need to do. And I have experiences before we cannot rely on the junta. So we must do we must help our people. So that's the reason. So now this my this, you know, kind of small charity organization, midstream Foundation, we have monks and nuns and lay people around the world, and some are from Japan, some are from Singapore, and mostly from Myanmar. So whenever this kind of nature, natural disasters happened, yeah, we were elected each other. Okay, we will contribute this amount, and we were sent to the affected area, and this person will be the junta person. And the thing is, I won't keep any money with me. I don't, I don't keep the bank account because, yeah, otherwise people will start to, you know, gua chimi is all the money reached to the victim or not? So what I'm doing I will give them the Quinta number and the bank account of the victim so they can, straight away, send the money to them. And what I'm doing is, yeah, I will collect the data. I will collect. To the representatives, and I will connect them with the organization or the donors, whoever wanted to donate. So that's the main thing what I'm doing right now.
Host 1:00:12
And you started this organization. Yes, that's tremendous. It's so wonderful to learn this background from you, and to hear how your sense of service, and we can say, engage Buddhism, how this is coming into contact with your own spirituality and your own inner practice, with the outer service that you're doing, and that I wonder if you might share also, when did you ordain, say, le to become a nun? And if you might share your reasons for wanting to be a nun.
Sayalay 1:00:52
Yes, actually, I went to Singapore in 2000 to do my nursing diploma. There and then I worked in Singapore for 17 years as an S and I worked, I have been so many multi disciplinary areas, including ICU high dependency and analysis centers, and I worked there as a nursing lecturer at it college east, and as an as educator at moe alveni Hospital, ba we Pantai Yang group. Then, when I was working there, I always have the intention to go back to Myanmar and help the people. So I always think of going back and yeah, I do yeah, went back and but yeah, I realized there are limitations I can do, because most of the people there, yeah, they are deep underneath the poverty, and I cannot provide the money to all the people. And then yeah, I realized the spiritual hub is the most effective help I can provide to them. Then there's the reason in Tun 17, when I was 44 years old, I resigned, yeah, from my work, actually is my early retirement. And I went back to Myanmar. Then, first of all, I predict for my own achievement. Then after my meditation practice, I decided to to, you know, to share and you know to share the benefits of meditation. And I want to ask my people, you know, to practice meditation so that they will be able to overcome their obstacles, difficulties, and they will be able to find a way to live. That's the reason, when I come out of my meditation center, the first thing I did, I went to the village and conduct 10 days meditation retreat. This village has no meditation teacher reached there before. No meditation retreat there before. So when I did my meditation retreat, most of the villagers, they quarried, and most of them, you know, then I share my experiences with them, like how my life has been, yeah, you know, improved by practicing meditation. And there are so many, you know, life experiences, but I'm afraid of, yeah, you know, the time wasting on podcasts, so I would get it shot. The thing is, when I, you know, shared my experiences with them, yeah, then they become enthusiastic and practice meditation. So, yeah, one thing good, I'm doing it yearly to conduct meditation retreats at the villages. Yeah, then this period of time, they can do it because of the, you know, military COVID and the other disasters. Even my other villages around there is really politically unstable, and yet they get the, you know, the taste how to predict meditation. So I am happy that they are, yeah, you know, although I cannot contact the annual retreat for the time being, yeah, they are applying it in their daily lives. So this is my main point, when they are doing that, yeah, they can overcome the obstacles. And one thing strange the village where I contacted this retreat, and they Yeah, although the nearby villages Yeah, affected by the junta, like, yeah, they got arsons. They got people grabbed by the army for, you know, exporter and all these. But it's very straight. Is the village where I conducted the meditation retreat. They were safe. They are still safe. So, yeah, there's motivation for me to share my knowledge with other people more and more. So what I'm doing right now, I have Singapore group, Suu Kyi foundation. When I worked there last year, I went there and I shared meditation practice with them. So, you know, I feel that although you know, all of them are not Buddhist, and it's not necessary to become Buddhist to practice meditation. So that the main point is, yeah, you don't need to name yourself Buddhist, but you must practice the correct way how to live your life morally and, you know, spiritually. So yeah, there's Yeah. All these are my background to involve in this kind of humanitarian work, because yeah, the current way of living life is Yeah, to accumulate our compassion wisdom, yeah, and our precepts. So when all this happened, I take a chance. Okay, this is for my you know, when we predict meta banana, it's not only for us to recite and not only for us to do the mentor. And you know, meter predicts we need to do it, yeah, physically. So I think that this is the good chance for all of us to apply our meta banana, physically. So, yeah, this is, you know, sort of, you know, when we are doing in the Buddhist literature, when we are doing something like, example, we are doing donation and yeah, at enormous situation, we donate something, yeah, with the expectation, like, when I donate this, I would get this benefits, that benefits, yeah, that kind of thing. We still have some, you know, sort of expectations yet, when you are doing donation at this kind of crisis, you don't expect anything. You are just doing it out of your kindness. And yeah, it's very pure donation. This is called, you know, part of me, you are doing the kind of part of me donation. So this will give, although you are not expecting anything, this will give you the benefits throughout your life. Yeah, even if, if you believe in the next life, you will get it even in your next lives, and then you get nibbana. So, yeah, I always encourage my this. You know, midstream foundation members, we are doing donation, which is, you know, parameter, you know that that kind of, you know, part of me. Donation, not just, yeah, donation, expecting something from Sam Moe. We are doing this out of our compassion. So this, this is, you know, from bad things, when we take the good thing, yeah, we are fortunate to do, to do such kind of, you know, part of me is very rare for us to get if there is no disaster, if there is no one in trouble or in the sufferings, we won't be able to do that. So I think that this is very good chance for us to do donation.
Host 1:08:50
That's beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. I enjoyed hearing that so much. I'm wondering, what meditation technique do you practice, and do you teach you reference teaching a meditation on these intensive courses in this village that had never learned it before. What lineage is your meditation practice?
Sayalay 1:09:10
I predict Mahasi meditation method. Since I work seven years old, Mahasi came to my hometown when I worked seven years old, and got a chance to listen his thematic and meditation practice since then, I predict San ba Mahasi method and I joined 10 days meditation retreat when I was nine years old, and I did three months retreat When I was 13. So, yeah, it has been, yeah, you know, anyway, 10 days retreat and occasional treatments. Retreats throughout my life, and I just practice this Mahasi Webu personal meditation. The reason is because, when I practice. This, yeah, I, I It's very interesting. It's like reading and, yeah, very attractive book that you don't want to keep it aside. You want to, yeah, you know, keep on reading and reading and reading that kind of, you know, experience I can get from Mahasi Webu Sana predicts. That's the reason, when I asked my people, when I shared my Dhamma, I encourage them to practice mahasin meditation method.
Host 1:10:31
Also, you mentioned that this practice that you have taught villagers, that even though you're not able to teach them during this time of conflict which has stretched now for years, that they're able to bring the Dhamma into their daily life. And I can't help but think about the trauma that we mentioned, that many monks and nuns are going through in the sagaian Hills now from that devastation. And so I wonder if you might share thinking about the practices of mindfulness, of Dhamma, of the Budd teachings. In what ways can these be of help towards those that are suffering from great mental anguish and pain and trauma from the combination of the sudden earthquake as well as the just the last four years of the conflict, since the military coup, yeah,
Sayalay 1:11:24
yes, you know, then one of the videos my friend sent to me, yeah, I happened to send to one of the groups you, you were the you, you are inside The group, and in that video, yeah, my friend talked to one of the men who is 8081, years old, and when she talked to her, she has around her, yes, massive distraction, yet she looks quite cheerful. She still can smile and talk to my friend. And it's quite wonderful, because, you know, when you look at the video, some of the videos the yangons, yeah, yes, they were traumatized. Yet they are not kind of bracelets. They don't feel the kind of thing. The thing is, yeah, when you are practicing meditation, when you apply it in your daily life, you are aware of what is happening. And one thing is, you will get Yoni, so many sikara from your practice and from your contemplation. And this yonisomanasikara is one thing that help the Buddhist to, you know, to face the this kind of massive destruction with equanimity. Because, yeah, this Yoni, so many sikara Is the body white that can be translated as wise reflection when you have the wise reflection. Yoni, so many sikara, whatever happening now, yeah, it's not, you know, rootless. It has the root Yeah. It is yeah. It may be. You might have done something wrong in your best life. Then when you have this kind of yeah mindset, whatever, yeah happened to you, you won't feel restless. You were, yeah, you know, you will be able to take it because, yeah, it's this thing happened, you know, based on our best gamma, best action, and yeah, we have Yoni, somina sigara, that if we do good it now we will be able to overcome it. So that's the reason, even when prepare in, you know, this kind of situation, some of the Buddhists, not only so called Buddhists, there are, you know, even when some of the Myanmar they named themselves as Buddhists, they are not Buddhist they are just naming themselves as Buddhists. That's why this junta is doing all these nasty things? Because they are not the real Buddhist. And when you are a real Buddhist, you have the mindset that if you do good, yeah, it's not only for this life, it will give you the good benefits throughout your Sansara. So you were trying to be doing good deeds, and yeah, you were trying to avoid all the bad deeds. So is yeah, when you are practicing meditation, you are aware of your mindset. And when you start to have the bad mindset, you are aware of it. And when you are aware of it, your bad mindset, your bad thinking, will stop there. It will not continued. It will not take, you, know, take you to carry out the action. And so, yeah, it's very important for us to apply our mindfulness in our daily lives, so that if you have bad mind, you will be able to eradicate it. You will be able to eradicate it, and you will be. Do, yeah, you know, have the you know, good, good thoughts.
Host 1:15:09
It's so wonderful to hear you say that, and it's so wonderful that we're having this conversation as we're talking about the sagain Hills, because my special relationship with the sagain Hills, it's a place where I had some of the most profound realizations of the Dhamma, and where some of my my mentors and and the people that the monks that I had and nuns that I had so much respect for, were there and who taught me and who I learned from and developed spiritually, where I learned about Burmese culture and Burmese Buddhist culture and and, and through that, the history of the sagain Hills, you know, learning everything from hearing stories of tiger attacks just 30 or 40 years ago to stories of the kings and the Royal retinues that would come in the 19th century and and the stone walkways and gateways that were there, and some of the the old monasteries that would have histories of of of tales of renunciation, of liberation, of striving. And you know that that's where my memories fits in with my own experience in the skyne Hills. And so it's really lovely to hear you talk about the these, these dama lessons, these Myanmar dama lessons. And you know, let us not forget this podcast started as a podcast talking about liberation, talking about spirituality, really going into the dynamics of Burmese meditation practice and Buddhism and and and Buddhist ways of life. And so it's wonderful to revisit this topic here with you. This is on a more positive outlook and way to see which I think is also very important, that that we have there and that we appreciate. I also want to address a more negative perspective of this, and that's this question of collective karma. This is a controversial topic, even among Buddhists, with some Buddhists kind of dismissing this and saying this. This is not really according to the Buddhist teachings. Of course, the understanding karma is very complicated and complex. It's a it's it's beyond most of our understanding to try to parse out, although some have questioned, the existence of this role of collective karma and collective punishment, even you can say, and you know, Myanmar is going through, and has gone through and continues to go through just a brutal time, you know, from the military coup and the brutality and the violence and the atrocities that occurred to the earthquake happening in the middle of this just you know, less than 24 hours before the earthquake occurred in the United States, USAID funding was cut. So a staff was cut to 15 people, the entire agency. So the even the bad luck of you know, USAID being able to help if the earthquake had happened just, I don't know, weeks or months earlier, it really it has been hard for many of my Burmese Buddh friends to talk about the hellish experience that Myanmar and the Myanmar people have been going through these past months and years that some have brought up this question of collective karma, and wondered about collective karma. Are we being punished? How do we explain this? And so speaking to a Buddhist nun who is very involved socially as well. I wonder if you can share your thoughts on the idea of collective karma, as well as how you're understanding just this amount of pain and suffering that continues to go on to Myanmar and the Myanmar people.
Sayalay 1:18:57
So yeah, actually, when we talk about karma is very you know it is it? Is it is not just if we talk about it now in superficial, yeah, I may not be able to cover all if I don't cover it properly. Is the listeners will not be able to get the comprehensive understanding, so I want to explain it further in detail, maybe next time. So right now, yeah, I will Okay, let's conclude it this podcast for the time being, and we will meet again in the next episode.
Host 1:19:57
We've come to the end of this discussion, and we. Thank you for spending the last couple of hours with us. I also want to let you know that we have recorded a lot more discussions that touch on similar themes to the one that was explored today. This is because, over the years, we've curated a rich archive now numbering in the hundreds of episodes freely available to all among these are in depth conversations with guests who explore Buddhist teachings and meditation practices, shedding light on the profound spiritual traditions that are deeply woven into Myanmar's culture. These discussions offer insights into mindfulness, compassion and spiritual development, timeless principles that resonate far beyond the borders of the golden land. However, producing and preserving this archive requires significant time and resources on our end, and we rely on listeners like you to help sustain it. If you found inspiration or guidance in today's episode or from any of the wealth of teachings and meditative reflections maintained in our archive, we invite you to support our work. Your generosity helps us to continue to produce and share these conversations, while ensuring that this invaluable resource remains freely available to all who seek it. Visit insightmyanmar.org/donation, to make a contribution.