Transcript: Episode #312: August and Everything After
Below is the complete transcript for this podcast episode. This transcript was generated using an AI transcription service and has not been reviewed by a human editor. As a result, certain words in the text may not accurately reflect the speaker's actual words. This is especially noticeable when speakers have strong accents, as AI transcription may introduce more errors in interpreting and transcribing their speech. Therefore, it is advisable not to reference this transcript in any article or document without cross-referencing the timestamp to ensure the accuracy of the guest's precise words.
Host 00:18
Hi there, and thanks for listening. If you enjoying our podcast and have a recommendation about someone you think that we should have on to share their voice and journey with the world. By all means, let us know it could be an aid worker, monastic author, journalist, doctor, resistance leader, really, anyone with some tie or another to the ongoing situation in Myanmar to offer up a name. Go to our website, Insight myanmar.org, and let us know. But for now, just sit back and Take a listen to today's podcast, music. Was for this episode of insight Myanmar podcast, we are talking to a student activist who identifies now as August. This is the name we'll be using, and we'll hear about his story growing up in Myanmar and his student life in in the country as well, and then how everything got all disrupted, as it did for so many people with the coup and how he has had to relocate since, but is still continuing his activism, especially in the educational sphere.
August 02:28
Thank you for having me as well. Named August, nice to meet you and nice to meet to the audience as well. Okay, so I am from tangji, which is in the southern Shen state in Myanmar. So, I mean, Myanmar is quite diverse also. Shan State is quite diverse Myanmar as well. And in my place, there are lots of conflicts, chaos and disabilities before the group as well. So I've been working on the freedom of religion I believe, because there are lots of religions, conflicts, you know, in in my region as well. So working for this, and also, I used to work with other right based civil societies and NGOs. That's about my work background, working background. And in my family, I am the youngest child, and I have one brother that he used to be in the service in the military, but now he's he drive the CDM thanks to him as well, if he is listening. And also, I don't have a father. I was raised by my mother, but in my childhood, I was raised by my grandparents, because my mom had to leave us for making income so that she can support us. I would say I was born into a family who is on the same side with the military. Oh, okay, yeah, I'm the only black she in my family, so let's say my grandfather, he used to be in the service, and also most of my cousins, also my relatives. So if they are not directly affiliated with the military. There's some kind of related with the How should I say government staff? Save it. Save the staff. So we are from the government family. I'm from the government family, so we hold a very conservative point of views and quite restraint about talking politics, because what they believe is talking about politics is a taboo, and that could also drive you to the unwanted dangers. So that's what they perceive. So I was born into that family, also, I used to hold those point of view. Was till around 2020 before the 2020 election. So at that time, I was joining a pre college program, which I don't want to mention the name there I used to, I mean, I got a chance to meet with most of the friends from around Myanmar, and yeah, we change the perceptions and the way we think about their politics. And I, I was exposed to the, let's say, the the newly adopted way of thinking towards politics, and I got introduced how the other ethnic groups have to encounter the brutal of brutalities of the military and also the other end group as well. So thanks to them, because of them, I could change my mind, and I became progressive, I think, and that is the way, how I became the patchy in the family.
Host 06:06
I was going to go back to that term. You say that you're the black sheep of the family. Can you expand on exactly which way Black Sheep implies some kind of wayward motion of someone in a group, that you're going in a different direction than the rest of your family, culture and conditioning and belief. So in what ways did you feel that you were becoming a black sheep?
August 06:26
So I think I mentioned that before that our family is really conservative, very religious and a good listener to the older generation. I'm not one of them, like I am not. I mean, of course, at some point I'm conservative, like every that's what every human being does, but what I think is I am not religious. I don't practice any religion. I don't listen to the older generations. I do what I want to do, what I think is right for me, what I feel is even for me. So if I have to take one example to explain this, I was also talking about this movement as well. So my my grand dad, he served in the military, and he was the one who conducted the brutalities towards the citizens during 88 so he had seen, he has witnessed how the military could conduct brutality at their most excellence. So he was worried about me if I would be detained and brought to the to their centers or the to the troops for having me in the prison. So that's what I that, is our granddad is afraid of and also my mom. She's also the youngest child in her siblings, and she is a really good listener to her parents. She doesn't want any conflicts. She doesn't want any like she doesn't want to do a compromise. So she always tell me that I should not get involved in the movement, because my grandparents will be mad at me. That is the very first thing that we can handle. And the external one is that I will be detained by the military, and also she has witnessed what had happened in the 1980s as well, so she doesn't want me to be the one to be tortured and to be murdered. So I didn't listen to them. I did what I wanted to. And I mean, I've been working this way since the coup happened. So, I mean, that's the way of metaphor that I refer myself as a black sheep that is only about the politics, also in some cultural norms or something other more, I don't only choose the way they wanted me to choose. So I am the only person who came out as a gay in my family as well. So that is one of the another example for referring me myself as a black she as well.
Host 09:40
Right? So you're coming from this very religiously conservative, military aligned, traditional family, and your path leads you not just to your coming out as gay and your sexual orientation going against the grain, the cultural and religious grain, in that way, but also in your. Political understanding and social activism in the country. So these are some real divides and fractures that are taking place within your family structure.
August 10:07
It really is, really is, yeah, I got a social divide. So, uh, I mean, most wonder could have been is around early, early March, I got a big social divide for my family. They grounded me. I mean, I'm not a child anymore, but they grounded me in house for like, a month because I've been joining the protest, and also I've been helping out the cdmers, my fundraising, selling things, and also receiving donations and contributing back. So that's what they don't want it really. They don't really wanted me to be part of so I got involved in the big, really social divide with my family.
Host 10:51
What were their feelings when the coup happened?
August 10:57
So on February 1, the coup happened. At that time, I was not at home. I was at the pre college that I mentioned before, and all the internet connections and all the mobile lines were cut off, so once it gets back online, I got a call with my mom saying that this is really a big desister that will distract our future and also our generations, of our generations. And what she replied me, what her response was like, The yacht is only for one year, controlling the power, not taking over the power. So we should wait for one year and nothing but will happen. That's what their response was. And I was shocked. I mean, they have witnessed, they have experienced the same incident in 1988 2007 I don't want to mention 2003 90 something, 1990 or like that. I just want to mention the big ones. But how could they say that this is nothing going to happen, the bad thing? So I was like amazed, shock, and also at the same time I felt sad.
Host 12:20
Right? And so before getting to the developments post coup and the political reality and social activism that took place just going back a few years to the first divide and fracture that seemed to take place within your family of realizing your sexual orientation then coming out and telling them who you were. Can you take us back to first, your own inner landscape of exploring and understanding that you were not like many people around you, of being straight, that you actually were attracted to to a different gender, and the inner turmoil that I imagine must have developed in in coming to and accepting and loving yourself with that, and then the decision and the experience of coming out to them and their reaction.
August 13:09
It happened very recently, actually, of course, if you are gay, your mom will know, because you they they give it back to you, so they know about your personality at some point, to some extent. And my mom know, I think my mum knew that I was gay things in my high school, but my grand father granted his day, believe me, that I'm straight, that I would bring my girlfriend home. That's hilarious. So my mother knew that that I was gay, and, I mean, she, she found out, and she at that time, she was a friend of one LGBT social worker from Mandalay. They came to know each other when they were in the same workshop Canada by one of the NGOs in Myanmar. So they became friends, and they started to talk about me at the same time she put a spy on me. Wow, yeah, she got that friend, that LGBTQ friend, to make my face, to be my Facebook friend and keep checking on me what I've been posting because I block out on my Facebook, because I've been posting, I mean, shitty things, jokes and something I did not for the professional use, so I don't want to have them in my Facebook account, but she she found out that I'm totally gay, and the response was very shocking. I thought we were. Going to be in a fight. But what she did was she tried with other LGBT iq plus organizations, and got a soge training. She started to find out more about the sexual orientations and gender matters in the trainings, and also her now focusing area on her walk is also gender and also this LGBT IQ issue. I felt very warm after hearing about that, but she didn't come out to me that she was doing that. But My birthday was less meant, and on my bad day, she wrote a very short text to me, saying that you are my son. I love you, and I am now very ready to accept your existence and your your being. And I was like, Oh, I felt very warm. I felt very accepted. And at the same time, I would say it is, it is the time that I feel that I love my mom the most, yeah, but it's only about my mom, not not the whole family, but I think my brother and also some of my family members will know about me as Well,
Host 16:19
Right? So you had a different reaction from the rest of your family?
August 16:23
Yeah, yeah.
Host 16:24
I see And when was this?
August 16:28
You mean the whole family? When?
Host 16:30
When was this episode of your with your mother that realizing that you were gay, and her reaction that you just described? When did that take place?
August 16:37
So it started since my high school, high school period, she's been finding out about the LGBTQ and general matters, and let's say, after five years, she accepted me, my existence, right, right?
Host 16:53
And have you, have you come out to the rest of your family? Or do they know? And what is the reason?
August 16:58
No, I didn't. I didn't because my grandpa, my granddad, my grand grandmother, passed away, so my mom is now living with my granddad to help him, assisting, doing daily household ideally, course. And my granddad is around 90 years old, and he is not in a good health. He can barely speak. So I don't think this is a good time to talk Kim about this, because he is being conservative religious and indoctrinated by the military way of thinking. So I don't think I need to do this anymore. I can feel that what he would feel happy about me is bringing a girlfriend to home and get married with her and giving back to the next generation. So that's the topic, girl, way of thinking of our old generation, so I cannot be the one who could do that. So I don't want to let him down, or just step aside, not talking about this, also not doing what he wanted, what he wants me to do, as well, and the rest of my family, I don't really care, because as long as my mother is beside me, I mean, like I am the king of the world.
Host 18:27
Yeah, right, right. And so with these pressures from society, from family, religion, these conditionings, did you have an inner struggle or inner journey to accept yourself, that this was who you were?
August 18:40
Uh, luckily, I don't think I did. So I used to be a bookworm in my in my high school days. Not anymore. Now I just have to read the articles from a university. So also, I was very social media additive. So I came to know about the gender matters, also the sexual orientation and its related things. And I came to find out myself that I'm gay and I could accept it. I think I could accept myself since my high school, because that is the time that I got my first boyfriend. Yeah, so I didn't have to face big barriers or difficulties for setting myself.
Host 19:33
And to be a high schooler in 2000 10s, Myanmar and to have a high school boyfriend, was that something you could be out with and date him openly? Or was society still? Was it still a little bit dangerous too?
August 19:48
So it's around 2018 and most of the people in Myanmar starting to accept the LGBT IQ things, and they really did support the LGBT IQ. Minutes as well, because at that time, the is the transition period. So we are, we were accessible to the things and music from abroad which directly portraying about the LGBT and Q things, so people understand that. And my boyfriend was not doing high school at the time. He passed High School, and he is he was in the university, so I am younger than him and his mother and also his friends. He's really lucky. He's really lucky because his surrounding, they did accept him for being who he is. That's really lucky for him. So when I get into his family, or when I meet with him, with a friend, with his friends, I feel accepted, and I feel like I'm treated like every every other one else. So that's really good for me. And I would not say it was not an official date, but sort of so yeah, not so much difficulties for that as well.
Host 21:15
And I just want to highlight to our audience how this is all taking place post transition. And so the experience of you being able to look online and read things and see things and watch movies and hear songs and get information, you reference how the reason that you were able to more accept yourself and not have this inner struggle was because there was so much media there that was able to inform you, and you were able to align with and see what you were seeing outside was also what you feeling inside, and then moving on to actually openly having a boyfriend in high school and starting to date that there was also some sectors of acceptance that came, and I just want to highlight to those listeners who might not be so familiar with Myanmar's recent history, how much This is attributed directly and probably 100% to that transition period. And were you having that same experience just 10 years earlier? All of those circumstances would have been dramatically changed.
August 22:10
I think so. I think so. Yeah, it's all about the media that we could use as a median to assess the information and also, if it was already a 10 year, I don't think that would happen. That would have happened, wouldn't have happened because I believe that media is the most one of the essential way to open up the people's way of thinking ideas, and because of that, I got open it as well. So I don't think if it was about 10 years earlier, that wouldn't have happened for me and also for most of the LGBT iq plus people as well. The very first thing is your environment in your surrounding that they will not really accept you, because we've been embedded into the old school way of thinkings in our mind for years, by the way that religion teaches, by the way that The military indoctrinated. So also, I'm friends with most of the LGBT IQ activists. They are way older than me. I'm not mentioning about their age each gap. I mean, I just want to mention how they had to face the difficulties at their time. So they've been starting their activism around 2008 910, the psychologies era in Myanmar, even when they go to the community to contribute to their donors, finding or their donors humanitarian assistance, they got rejected because of who they are, so not even about their personal things, just contributing to the community, they got rejected. So that what I will have in face, if that will go earlier, 10 years before the post transition period.
Host 24:09
Right? Yeah. So let's move on to the great political events that would take place the last few years that have uprooted all of our lives and changed things so dramatically. You reference how in 2020 based on the pre collegiate program that you were in you, you were already starting to shift politically and socially and seeing that the military conditioning you grew up with was not entirely true as to what was happening in the country, and to meet ethnic minorities who were telling you their stories and you believe them, then the 20, the 2021, coup happens. You reference what happened the first month of calling your mother and feeling that her, even though she had personal experience, as did your whole family, of knowing what the military did, because some of your family were the ones doing it, feeling not quite as alarmed as you were about the future going forward. So take us from from there after that first month, what. Did you then move to doing and how did your relations with your family start to shift as you went off in that direction?
August 25:07
So that could be happened, and I was the I was one of the 778, students being active to get involved in the protest, to be on the street to say that we go against the military regime the coup. And I got kicked out from this coup because of doing that. So I went back home, and my family got really mad at me, saying that why I gave up pursuing my education over the protests. What they really taught was everyone as mentors, except the politics, because what they believe is politics. We have nothing to do with the politics. That was not my idea, and I could not accept it, and I kept participating in the protest and sneak out from my home. Finally, around 4am 5am in the morning, so that I could join the protest in town, because my house, my home is out of town. It's like a 20 minute drive to the town, so I have to get it before my families wake up, so that they did not notice me sneaking out from this home, and I tried the produce, and then in the late evening, I came back home and I have to be in a fight with them. I mean, almost every day, all the day that I joined the protests, it's like eight to 10 days, and I was sick of doing so, so I left my home, packing all my things, I mean that the things that I would require for my livings outside my home. So that's what I did, and I think my family got really mad at me. They didn't even give me a call, because normally they are really worried about me because I'm the youngest, and they left me the most, especially my mother and my grandparents. So these three people, they left me the most. But at that time, they didn't even made a call with me, and I didn't call with them too. It was so intense. Yeah, that's one of the things that I have to face. And after a week, I came back home, and the very best thing that I had to face was getting slapped. I could not even remember how many slaps that I that I got by my mother, also by my granddad. They are the they're the person that I left the most in my life. At the same time, they were crying because they were so worried about me, and I was not sad at the time, I was really mad at them, because in my in my thinking, I'm like, I'm doing the right thing. Why do you punish me for doing me the right thing? Is it? Is it the way that you raise me up? Is it the way that you really meant or that you really want me to be the person when I'm grow older, when I am in your shoe? And those were going a lot in my mind, and I got really mad at them, and this time they didn't ground me. I grounded myself in my room for like, three days on a hunger strike alone to my family, yeah, what I believe is, if I don't go against my family, how would I have the power to go against this brutal military I was so very brief at the time, quite different from this time.
So that's how I did. And the response was, and but rather than my mother, my granddad, he is he loves me the most, even, rather than her, his child children, and also other grandchildren as well. So he was always checking on me, asking if I want breakfast, if I want dinner. He even asked me if I want beer, because he knows that I love beer. So I felt very well at the same time as well, but I could not give up resistant to them. If I did, I would be level. I. With a saying of a good why, in their perspective, I don't want to be a good boy. I just want to be a brave why, who take risks, who stand up for the truth and just it so that's these are the ones that I also talk and just get with them as well. When we have a deep conversation, but my granddad always said that I should not run against the wall with a bald head. And also, my mom always said that you I only give back to both of you, me and my brother. And she was like, I am not ready to lose any of you. And I was like, You are not losing anyone, because I can take care of myself. I am a grown adult, and you can, believe me, you can put a trash on me that I can I can mitigate the risk, I can assess the risk, and also I can get off from that risk by myself. Isn't it the way that you really want to be grown up? These are the words that I accept again. Well, we had a really deep conversation, but the outcome was nothing. We just in a fight, always in a fight. And I was like, I feel like I should not be in this rounding for a while. I should step away from so that I could also find my mental space, so that I could find like minded people who would who will support each other mentally. And again, I left my home and I want to rang go to stay with my friends for like, a month, and luckily, I got hired by one of the organization. But it's not in Yangon. Is in northern Shan State law show to work on a sector relative health and rights project for the person with disability. Yeah. So these are the things that I have to face, and the way that I trying to get out from the situation, right?
Host 32:34
So I'm thinking particularly of your grandfather, because you say that he was on the side in 1988 of being on the side of the crack town that he he was violently in some form, going against the student protesters in that earlier iteration. So another version of him was cracking down on another version of you, and yet you also have this love towards each other. So was that ever something that was difficult to reconcile?
August 33:00
It's a hard story to talk about, like another version of him is cracking out another version of me as a good word that I really love as well, but at the same time it is really heartfelting. So there are propaganda media channel, Mya Udi and Myanmar at their Myanmar radio and television, something like that. So what they always do is they never miss any of the press conducted by XO Minton, desperate person of the military. And they really encourage xiaomintong For what the military is has been doing to crack down the students, the protesters and to detaining the innocent civilians. I think there was a Sargassum among my family members and me like whenever they listen, they watch that press by so Minton, they turn up the ball on to the highest so that I can hear at that time, I was in my room listening to a song. What I what I did was I put some EDM music on and I put my bottom highest. That's how we fight, like it's a Kowa Not, not between the worst and the Russia, my family members and me. That's the way I did. And also, when we feel we felt calm down, we always have a conversation at the dinner table with my grandparents. He always mentioned that, like, I should not run against the wall with a bot head. And what I always say is, like, that wall should be taken down. Yeah. It is not about your ball head or your pants, even with your finger, if you can, you should. So that's what I said. And he was like, You are very I mean, I just forgot the word in English. It's not straightforward. Uh, do we do? We call it picky. It's like you do what you are committed to, stubborn. Oh, yeah. Step on, yeah. Step on, sorry, so you're very stubborn. Uh, and I am the one who is on the street peacefully protesting, not taking any amp, just saying that we do not want the dictatorship in our country. Imagine that you are the one who is shutting us down, who is beating us for doing nothing bad. How would you feel that that's what I asked to my granddad, and every time that I asked him about that, he never answer. He never responded. I feel like he he might also regret for what he did for India 1988 as well. Um, but on the other hand, he never stepped back for his belief as well.
So let's say there was no proper outcome for this kind of situation too, for for your question as well. We were always in effect. We were just debating based on our ideologies and standings. So whenever I talk about politics with my family, I feel like more disconnected with them. I feel like more left out and isolated. So I try not to talk about politics with them, not to discuss with them, even when I have to talk about that in a meeting for for job related or their revolution related things, I close my I close the door, and I Just put on the airport, and I talk very quietly so that they could not hear, so that we don't have to go on that conversation, which will drive us to the disconnection for each other.
Host 37:31
So still to this day, there's a fracture in their view of what the military is doing, in your view of the role the resistance?
August 37:42
Yeah, yeah, even what they believe is so I'm not sure if you caught up the news from yawadi or Myanmar there. So they always listen to that. They always watch that news, and on that new they on that news. They release like today we have caught up 50 PDF members, 50 underground fighters by the military. That's a really successful for us, because we got a victory by taking down the bad person who is throwing up the country to the trash bin, something like that, and they felt really grateful for that. And I was like, Are you really happy hearing that the youths who are at your grandchild's age get entertained and murder. Are you really happy hearing that? And I was like, Yes, we are, because they are the one who is distracting the country, distracting the religion. I was like, I could not even find a word to get back to that, yeah, because we hold a very strong and different ideologies. We always say that advocating to your family is the hardest thing, and I do believe that, based on this.
Host 39:10
That's powerful. Moving on to your social activism. So we left off where it was you referenced how you had lost your education. And I just want to also underscore how your commitment to change in a better future in your country, you had to sacrifice. Within a matter of weeks, you were standing in school, your education, your professional future, and then your family relationship and your home so right, right from out of the gates, in just a few weeks, you've already had to sacrifice quite a bit to be involved in wanting to support the side that's advocating for human rights and democracy. And very soon, I imagine then your very safety and your very life started to also be in a tenuous place, in a delicate spot.
August 39:58
Um. Uh, thank you, of choice of what like sacrifice, but I don't want to use that for myself. I'm not blaming you or no offense sorry for that, because I don't see like this is a sacrifice, uh, sacrificing things. I feel like it is about choosing what I really believe, and I would never regret for that, because I can find other opportunities. Uh, I don't feel very well talking about this, because there are other youths who cannot find other, any other opportunities as well. Uh, yeah, I am from the underprivileged background, and because of that, I got some privilege as well. So I could find, I could find out some other opportunity as well. So yeah, I left off from the school because I got kicked out, and I joined the protest. And due to the problems that I had to encounter with my family, I walked to rangoons to stay with my friends, and I applied for the job, and I walk in northern Shen state in LA show. I felt really happy for that, because at that time, I could make my own income so that I could contribute to the CDMS. I am one of the CDM students. We don't have much things to lose. It's just the useless and hopeless that degree paper, but for the CDM staff, they have to lose their reputation. They have to lose their property, the family members, because some of the cdmers, they have to flee from that region. They have to came to Thailand being undocumented and got arrested by the Thai police and also violated and expired by them as well. I feel very bad for them, because they have to lose a lot of thing. I would use sacrifice for them so I could make my own camp so that I could contribute to them. At the same time, I also received the donations from my peers and also my from my colleagues and my networks. Not very big amount of many, but mentally, I could contribute, like one lakh to each of the CDMS that I have that I used to support at that time. So it was around 15 people. And after that, I came back to Taunggyi and joined one of the civil society organization in where I I had to encounter the sexual harassment by my supervisor, and I like so that supervisor in me. We were in a good relationship. We were like brothers. He's also gay, but like brothers, we always open up about our feelings. We always open up about our stress and family matters, but he did that sexual harassment on me, and I felt really sad about that at the same time I could not accept it. It was like almost rape, yeah, so I was very stressed out. It affects me mentally and also physically. I could not even eat. I couldn't even sleep on, like, get into press and, I was thinking of we how I should handle it, but he kept doing so for like a month, because I haven't resigned yet
But finally, I could not take that anymore, so I submit my resign paper to him, and also to other respective persons, department heads as well, and one of the manager from the organization. She checked on me why I submit the resignation letter, because she knew that I am the valuable Parson for the organization, because I at the time, I was also contributing for some of the projects that we worked together. And she asked for no reason, why did you submit your resignation letter? And I was like, because of this, and I could not take this anymore. And that's how that problem started. The Puppet trader, he found out about that, and he was preparing to sue me for defaming him. That's the first one, and the second one is the. He would inform he would report my CDM support and other activism related doings to the military, because he is kind of affiliated with the military as well. He's like poker face. He kind of contributing to the contribute to the revolution, also working together with the military as well. So it's like poker face. And I was like, This is not a good time that I should give up and just go to the prison because I haven't finished my bachelor degree. I haven't done for the things that I really wanted, want to do, so I tore off the way to leave my country and being at ASI since then. Yeah, when was that that you left the country? So it's around November 2022.
Host 45:59
And you left to escape the the abuse and the threats that this former supervisor was?
August 46:05
Yeah, yeah. At that time, I did it. I did even receive a dead threat. Some of that paparazzi's fellow they messaged me, they called me that they will come to my home and find me, they will slap me, they will stab me. And I was really afraid of that. Because, I mean, I can fight with warts, but not with arms, not with weapons. So, yeah, I was really afraid of that.
Host 46:32
Right, right? That sounds really difficult. And at this time as well, to what degree had the military set you in their sights and knew about you specifically and what you were doing.
August 46:44
So before that incident, the military, they came to my house and searched for me for two times because they knew that I was dealing with the CDMS and also organizing the flash mob protest. Bet my family could handle it, because they are kind of related with them. That's one of the privilege that I what I mean, privilege. So they were like, we'll talk to him. We will let him know, and we will stop him from doing so again, starting from today, and you could believe us, and you could go back and the military, they go back because some of my family members, they are in the highly opposition of the military. So that thing was concluded within the conversation. But at that time, of course, I had to run away from my home for like, two or three days. Yeah, this, I would say, but, but I am not a famous person or listed in a warrant, five, five, or something like that. But whatever it is, I am not ready to be in the prison. So as as soon as I heard the news that he report me to the police, he reported me to the military for my doings. I bought the flight ticket and I flew over to Bangkok.
Host 48:19
Yeah, you mentioned the flash mobs. Can you describe what flash mobs are to audience who might not know them, as well as the circumstances around which they developed, and what kind of organizing you had to do to arrange these flash mobs
August 48:33
so it's like distracting their daily matters, daily doings. It's not a big one. It's like we do graffiti. I mean, not a graffiti. We just paint on the military's war like, Fuck the coup, fuck the military. Sorry for the language, but that's we always do for going against the military. That's what we do. And also, we print out the the news and the portraits of the hunter, and we throw it on the street with a hashtag, sign of fact the military factor slack That and before things were that, have we right around the it's not like right around we read and ran in front of the military troops and campus by shouting, Father coop or Naru Anang, Naru BNB slave, give us restore the power so such things, but not very big at that time, because our hometown was surrounded by eight military campus. So it's not really an easy task to to to. Hold the flash mob of pop ups safely. Of course, I was not that brave too. Were there close encounters? Not that much, but for the big crowd, yeah, there were close encounters, but for the flash mob, there was not a match.
Host 50:19
Yeah, right, right. So then you come to Bangkok in 2022 and and even though you're in Thailand, your activism and resistance continue across the borders.
August 50:31
Oh. So when I came to Bangkok, I find myself hardly living in Bangkok, so I moved to Chiang Mai as soon as I arrived to Bangkok, because I don't really like the sense of city life. It's a metropolitan city, so I don't I don't feel myself like I fit in. So I'm came to Chiang Mai because once I left my home, I have already thought that I would pursue my education into my university as well, because they they provide the degree that I really want to seek for. So I came to Chiang Mai, and the first thing that I did was participating in the stress management training because I was really struck out and depressed because of that sexual harassment case and also the, I mean, who would not miss your home if you have to leave it behind suddenly. So for those things, it's a homesick and after that, I joined one of the nonviolence Resistance Movement workshop, and I got connected with the like minded people, the prominent activists, the lobbyists and some other people as Well, and the bonding thing that made us more connected and familiar was at that time, the military announced that they were sentenced at Delta penalty to the seven da Gong students a semester from the daegon University. So as soon as we hear that news, we organized the protests in Chiang Mai in front of three King monuments. Yeah, it was a big event, and most of the people, most of most people attended. And we could also take coverage, a lot of coverage on the local medias and also international media as well. Also a good thing on that day was not only in Chiang Mai, a lot of country, Australia, Nepal, Japan, I think, also US and UK. We were protesting at the same day. Yeah. So that is the very first thing that I could see, the solidarity and man the Burmese, and then Burmese people who are supporting for the revolution. And I felt very motivated, and I always keep in touch with those now work so that we could also organize such other events and some other contribute contributions that we would be able to for in order to support that revolution as well.
So this is how I started my division in Chemi. And after that one experience, I came to know that there are lots of Thai student activists also time prominent activists who are really willing to give a hand for our movement. At the same time they are learning from us too. What they always say is, you organize whatever you want. We are here to support you. And in every protest that we organize, they are together with us. What we call is frontline team to deal with the police and to deal with the crackdown, the crackdown in Thailand, yeah, yeah. If something happens for the worst case scenario, that's what they do. And what they also say is, we are learning from you, because we are also fighting against the junta, the dictatorship in Thailand, and also the the one that I want to I don't want to mention, so they are really motivated by seeing it for what we do as well. So we feel we got more connected. We became in a very strong solidarity, and we support each other. Whenever we organize protests, they are with us. Whenever they organize their event, we are with them too, right? Yeah, that's how we've been sustaining our solidarity and how I started my activism in here in chimi. That's great.
Host 54:58
That's wonderful to hear. And I understand you've also taken on some role in Chiang Mai university with your with continuing to organize student unions and activism there as well.
August 55:09
Yeah, but so is, is the university affiliated thing, and I want to mix it with the politics some people suggest me, if we could bring that student association to the activism related and revolution related events or matters. And my answer is always no, because there are some other students who just want to walk on the peer development, the peers, right, and just enjoying their university life. And I don't want to bring the child to their life as well, because some people has a plan to go back after their study. I'm not sure at this point, because before the conscription, they have a plan to go back to their home or to the country. So also at this time, it's, it's been a long time that we haven't had a meeting. I mean, our Student Association members, because it was the summer period, and most of the people, they went on internship. They were some some of them were on the trip. So we are now starting to call for the meeting again.
Host 56:22
Right? So you're in Chiang Mai. Now this is a place where many Burmese have resettled to not just Chiang Mai university, but all throughout the city, media, advocacy, activists, organizations, cdmers of all kinds, populate Chiang Mai like never before in May, sod, of course, but you've made Chiang Mai your home, and for those listeners who might not be familiar with Chiang Mai, or might not be familiar with post Myanmar KU Chiang Mai, which has changed dramatically in these years, can you describe a bit about how would you characterize the community and the experience of living here as A Burmese and the connections that are fostered informed.
August 57:04
I would say Chiang Mai is a Burmese hub in this revolution period, and Chiang Mai really welcome us, especially the residents. That is why I choose to stay in Chiang Mai. I choose to be an exile in Chiang Mai, rather than Bangkok, because I felt accepted. I feel welcome by the Brazilian and also the person that we are collaborating together with. And yeah. So by the time that I moved to Chiang Mai, there were not a lot of Vietnamese people. There were some of the prominent people and famous people who had to flee from the from Myanmar for the warrant or for the fame. So at that time, the community was not that big, but these days, Chiang Mai has been receiving a lot of new migrants because of the conscription. And I do really thank Chiang Mai and its residents for welcoming our Burmese people and giving us a home. I mean, of course, you have to rent, but you at least find a place to safely stay and continue your living. And also, the chirmai atmosphere is like you are living in bomber you can hear Burmese speaking in everywhere you go. Because in Chiang Mai, there are not only Burmese. There are some other ethnic cities from Myanmar who speak Burmese as well, especially the Thai, the Shen people, and also some Korean, Korean people, they also speak Burmese as well. So it's a really good place, and chimai resonates with um Mandalay, um, so in like, let's say Mandalay is a old fashioned town of Burmese and Chiang Mai is also an old fashioned town of learner, learner as well. And we share, we share the same culture, most of the food patterns and the attires as well, so we can find most of similarities between us and also the weather is not quite different from the towns in Myanmar, but all. Course not the smoking season. It's quite really hot and you're stuck in the greenhouse.
Host 1:00:05
Yeah. So in past episodes, we've had different military analysts or economists on have talked about doing a comprehensive analysis up to date of what the situation is on the ground or with the economy or natural resources or whatnot, to try to gage how the conflict is going. I'm not asking you those questions, since that's not the background you come from, but I'm the question I'm going to ask you. There's a reason why I'm preloading it with with this background in context, and that's because I want to ask you a question about how you would characterize the context of the morale, the current morale among the young Burmese activists that are here because it like everything. It ebbs and flows. It goes up and down. It goes in different directions. And as with the other questions I referenced, whether we're looking through a perspective of the economy and the natural resources or the or the way the conflict is being waged, no having a sense of the current landscape or climate, of what's going on with this lets us know where we are in the conflict and where we are with the momentum and with how, where we could see things going, the hope, optimism or the pessimism, exhaustion, trauma. And so I'm wondering, as you and I, know that with part of this question, there might be some generalization you have to do. I know that there are many different people going through many different things, but if you were to because you are in touch with this pulse of the student activism, of overall activists, of media, and being here in Chiang Mai, talking, having many conversations in people's homes, tea shops, etc, and seeing the way that the this feeling of morale has flowed and changed over the years, and the roller coaster set of emotions that one has when it comes to talk about morale.
August 1:01:55
I am trying not to characterize, I mean, categorize, but I think I would so there are some radical person who believe that we should take down the military from the root with them and groups, yeah, so they prefer their AMS resistance. But at the same time, we could also find the people who are from the right space background, whom they think, who think that we should always value and prioritize the Human Rights whenever we treat other people, even if those are from the people side or if they are from the military side. But in Chiang Mai, in context, we can find lots of people, because it's, like I said before, it's a Burmese have and lots of people migrated here, so you will see lots of people. But these day, I got disconnected with the other activists because of my mental condition, I feel like I need a mental space and take a break from what I'm doing because I got banned out. I mean, if you're passionate about something, you keep that in mind continuously all the time. You love to do so because you want something, but that's pressure you that waits you a lot, so you got banned out, and that's what I feel this day. So I don't go to place where I could find the the other activists, because when we meet, we always talk about what we have been going through, and what, what is happening in Myanmar, and how we should do that, and how we will, like, walk on together, on this so something like that, and I want to be part of that conversation at this time, even on my social media, I skip On the news, one the headline say it's about the cautious or the strikes or the attacks or something like that. It's about the it's about the politics. But even for like the the social circumstances, like if someone got crushed by a car or something like that, I don't watch the news. I try to avoid seeing the pictures or read the news, because I am not really worried at this time, not really ready for receiving such things and putting those in mind. So yeah, I was, I feel like I might not be able to give you the answer that the proper answer for for this, because I cannot really analyze what people are going through the in terms of morale or something, also for myself as well, yeah.
Host 1:04:56
Well, I think part of your answer is the answer that, like many the. That you're prioritizing mental health and that there's there's a many people are going through different stages of trauma, and there's an exhaustion that has taken place and an exile from home, which is it's always you're never at your full power and energy when you're not rooted in your home soil and environment. And the longer you're out, the more you're having to draw strength in other ways of settling in temporary places, no matter how welcoming it might be in the case of Chiang Mai and so and I think this also leads into a wider question of the military feeling that they just need to wait it out, that they just need to wait out the condemnation of the international community until they accept that okay, they're the ones in charge. They need to wait out the the the exhaustion and the trauma that their constant brutality and murderous intent and actions are causing upon the people and that and that eventually their their sheer force of brutal well, and let's call it what it is, evil tyranny that they're foisting on the people that eventually people will just give up out of submission, because that's what's always happened before. But I think what we are seeing in this current revolution is that even as people might cycle through taking breaks or sitting out or taking time for themselves, there is a sustained revolutionary spirit inside and outside the country that is taking that is that there are always people that are there ready to show that they're they're not accepting that they're not submitting, and they're continuing to to, to resist against it. In the military, every analysis, every analyst we speak to, is is still standing by that the military is losing. They are steadily losing, month by month, however, numbers you look at that they are that they're losing territory, they're, they're bleeding men, they're losing morale, they're, they're not, certainly not gaining when it comes to international legitimacy. And so they are on the losing end. But it's seeming to be a long, bitter and slow moving defeat that's taking place.
August 1:07:07
I'm not sure for the low rank militarys, but for the high ranking military and the hunter themselves, I think they were prepared for that. They were prepared for their resistance. They were prepared for the mental health, but after they have been taken down, I think they would be um happy for distracting the people's attitude and marrows. So like because of the food security in Myanmar, you would see loss of pit pocketing and some other robberies, or something like this. I feel like that's why they want. If they didn't want, they wouldn't start off this journey to destroying the most important characteristic of the persons of their citizens. So I think they were prepared for it, but for the resistance groups. We are resisting at our best. But of course, we got our band out, and at the same time, we regenerate as well. We take some time to take a rest, to take a break, and we regenerate, re energize, and come back and support again and again. You got banned out because you are putting a lot yourself inside it. So it's like a vicious cycle, but not for the military side. I'm not quite sure. I don't know much about it, but I feel like they are well prepared. So for like, uh, as usual, they are um, religious and, uh, conservative. So what they believe is their mental energy and their mental health powers would come from the superstitious things, you would see some of the tracks and some like ornaments, which are used for the superstitional which gives the superstition of powers to you in the generals, I think you might see in main Online sense, or something like that. So I think the mental health powers come from those for them, because what they believe is nothing can disrupt and nothing can make you harm if you have this bad for us, it's no use, because what we believe is mental health should be generated by ourselves. Of course, a religion is a kind of a sense of security for your mental well being. But most of our youths these days, we are non believers and Samar practitioners. So I'm one of the name practitioners. So. So I don't think most of the religious and superstitional ways could support me for my well beings. But of course, the meditation is not superstation at all. Yeah, it's just the natural way of making your getting your mindfulness. So yeah, but I don't think they will also care about meditation as well.
Host 1:10:24
Has meditation been a part of your journey?
August 1:10:28
Very rare, because realizing music is my top coping mechanism. Yeah, it's not, yeah, let's say not a direct meditation or a proper meditation, but I sit on something and I look at this kind and I put on the My airport and put on the following highest by listening to the that relaxing music. Maybe I will also say that is kind of meditation. Would you think? So?
Host 1:11:01
I think whatever you want to call it, yeah.
August 1:11:05
So, so it to conclude, we are not prepared for that, but we are doing our best, and we are running in this vicious cycle. But for your site, they are prepared for that, and they got their mental energy from what they think is really powerful. I think that is why they can still resist to the people's revolution Till so far. Yeah, right. Uh oh, yeah. I forget what I should really share about. It's about the performance art. Yeah. So whenever we integrate the whenever we organize the protests or events, we always integrate with the performance art. Chiang Mai is enriched in art and culture as well. So I used to learn performance art in my college, but it's for the recreational use and entertainment purpose. But when I arrived to Chairman, I could apply that for the advocacy thing. So it's like advocacy to performance art. So we use performance art for the public advocacy to unveil to the emotions and thinkings of what is happening in Myanmar for those who are quite far away from the situation with Myanmar and also to the international community, so that they could be aware of what is happening In Myanmar. So a very recent example is about we organize a deadly strike, a performance art event at popper gate. We portray the lives of people who are enter the air and the artillery strikes people were teary at the time. They cried at the same time they felt very sad. They could see what the lives of people under that strikes are really suffering and yeah, they could have a sympathy and what I am proud the most is because of our walk, we could wake the emotions again so that they could be part of the revolution again. Maybe, if you are supporting financially, I'm not talking about donation, but if you are purchasing the fair, raising merchandise or something, or if you are at least talking to the a young person who is in this revolution, like encouraging or motivating, somehow, whatever you are, you will be able to contribute. That is good for us too. So yeah, that's how we use performing arts to awake the people's emotions.
Host 1:14:02
That's really neat. Yeah, cool, yeah. So you see that as a type of activism going forward in Chiang Mai, that you want to continue being creative and out of the box and thinking of how performance art can bring the reality to the community here.
August 1:14:17
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because most of the most of the Thai people, they could relate to the art whenever we want to talk about something, also in time activism, time people's activation as well. They use performance art a lot, and that's really cool. I mean, that's really innovative. You could show whatever the way you like, you could be rude, you could be open, you could be creative, but if you could catch up the message, that's really cool for seeing that. And I really love it as well. And also I think it is like rather. Than talking or reading the statements or doing some other things, like some other similar things like that, I feel like performance art could reach to the deeper hat of the people for awakening, awakening their emotions.
Host 1:15:17
Great. Well, I thank you so much for coming on here and sharing your story and giving us one more piece of the puzzle and trying to understand trying to understand what's happening to Myanmar and as this conflict goes on, the revolution and the resistance and you're a part in it, and for bringing your story for our listeners to better understand.
August 1:15:34
Thank you for having me too, and also, again, truly sorry for the language that I used in the conversation, if those are not really appropriate for the audience, and so for yourself. And yeah, thank you so much again for having me, because it is a great opportunity for exposing what we are doing to the audience who could potentially be for the supporters or the contributors to our movement and to the activism as well. So yeah, thank you so much for that, and I am looking forward to listening to my episode by myself on the website as well. So thank you.
Host 1:16:37
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