Transcript: Episode #304: Strings Attached
Below is the complete transcript for this podcast episode. This transcript was generated using an AI transcription service and has not been reviewed by a human editor. As a result, certain words in the text may not accurately reflect the speaker's actual words. This is especially noticeable when speakers have strong accents, as AI transcription may introduce more errors in interpreting and transcribing their speech. Therefore, it is advisable not to reference this transcript in any article or document without cross-referencing the timestamp to ensure the accuracy of the guest's precise words.
0:24
There's a soldier running out there with a gun in his hand, with a barrel point, not the one who's taking A stand out there's a woman standing if she can, while the children take a beating as they watch your father hang. Send a wind. Send a wind. Send away. I'll carry on the wind.
Host 1:01
I'd like to welcome everyone tuning into this episode. Many of you now listening likely have a measure of personal freedom and liberty in your own lives, freedoms that the speaker you're about to hear from no longer enjoys. I do not say this to make anyone feel guilty, but to offer a reminder that we are very fortunate to have a degree of agency and safety in our lives that the upcoming guests and everyone else in Myanmar these days can only dream of. So after you hear their story, please consider how you may use your freedom to support or advocate on behalf of the Burmese people any action, no matter how small counts now let's hear what they have to say.
Elisabeth Win 2:56
Hi, I'm Elizabeth. I'm an outreach coordinator at Joy house I'm in charge of, like, external partnership and all the special event I'm organizing, and, yeah, I'm leading time outreach program, because the third goals of joy house is to have a bridge building between Burmese people who fled from Myanmar and to have a good relationship with our host community, Thai people. So it's nice to meet you all.
Brad 3:29
And that's a really interesting thing that you started out with there, the relationship between the Thai people as hosts and the Myanmar people who fled violence and fled warfare. We do hear a lot about the tensions between the groups. We do hear that there are a lot of negative attitudes among the Thai people towards the Burmese people who have come into Thailand. So can you, can you tell us a little bit more if it's if it's not a sort of difficult or dangerous topic to discuss, about the problems that the Myanmar people have been facing.
Elisabeth Win 4:05
Okay, so before 2021 the troop happened, there's a lot of Burmese people who migrated here to work as a man, great workers. So we basically do all the, you know the basic walks in Thailand, like sales person, farmer who walks in that restaurant. So it was not a problem for Thai community to have like a basic Walker to their country. But after the coup and the Burmese people have to flap from our country because of the conflicts in our country. So after the coup, there are a lot of professional and like some kind of rich status people moved try to escape from Myanmar the. They moved to massord, and they started to taking over, like the business. And, you know, they are rich, so they can open a restaurant, Burmese restaurant, and they are professional. So for me, that time, people started to feel that Burmese people are taking over their city. So some people don't like it, but people are people, so there's a lot of time people who welcome in and helping us. So I want we the dry house one to to make feel the host community that we are not a burden to them, because we have, we are from different background. We have different belief and culture. So we don't want, do we don't want to clash them all. So now in the border situation, we are like, Miss man, graduate people, different standard of people so like, we just want the host community to feel that we are grateful for them to having us, and we are not a burden to them, and we would like to make a better relationship to them. That's why my Irish program is like I go to the Thai school to give what joy heart is doing, like we give free music classes, and we teach Burmese to the time kids, and, you know, we kind of building a good relationship.
Brad 6:36
And so that's, yeah, that's kind of what I wanted to move into. That is the the ways in which you're doing this, this outreach. So I think it might be useful for us if we, if we talk about joy house itself. So can you tell us a little bit about joy house, how it functions, when was it established, and what is the real mission of joy house?
Elisabeth Win 6:59
Joy house is a community center for especially for Burmese people, because when the Burmese people are flat from ba Mar they don't have a legal status here in Thailand, so they are the police can easily catch them, and they are not secure, and they have to afraid of going outside because they have no legal document. And for the kids as well, they cannot have like a proper education, because for the like younger when they can join to the time school, but the language will be a barrier for them, and like for older people, they cannot walk. They cannot really walk in Thailand. So like, people are starting to feel depressed, even though they have a help from like their relative or like other NGOs, like other community CBOs helping them. So Joy. House has become like a community center for those who are mentally hurt and has a trauma. So we built a safe space for the people to come and dry and the people to relieve themselves.
Brad 8:26
The question that we Joy House, obviously the objective is to serve the needs of the Myanmar community, and that's really good. But So with regards to the staff, the people who are teaching, the people who are working there is there? Are there any Thai people working there? Is it all Myanmar people on staff?
Elisabeth Win 8:46
My in dry House majority are Burmese people. All our stuff are Burmese people. We have one Thai staff who is helping us with our house tours and yeah, so in dry house, we have three goals. One goal is to help people with their psychosocial support need. And as a dry house is like we call it Name Format, education. We teach music, we teach like handmade handcraft, and we teach cooking class and and all that activity are based on psychosocial support, because not all the people are willing to share how they feel and what they have experienced before. So like we let them to have a relief when they are doing something they like to do, when they are learning a new thing, they have to relieve themselves. So, like, the second one is we have a art piece in dry house. So we try to advocate what is happening in Myanmar by our art music. So like, we call it activism. And the third one is, as. Shared before that. That one is, we want to have a good relationship with the Thai host community.
Brad 10:07
Yeah. And so coming back to that, like, what, what activities can you really be doing to improve the relationships with the Thai community? Your your focus, your remit, seems to be very much focusing on giving that, as you say, that psychosocial support to the Myanmar community. But do you run outreach programs to try to get Myanmar people to do public outreach with the Thai population, or do you take in Thai people to try to give them a sort of taste of Myanmar culture and context, what sort of outreach do you do
Elisabeth Win 10:45
enjoy house? All the trainers on all the trainers are from Myanmar. They are cdmr. They are peacefully activists. The trainers, the trainers at Joy house are CDM and professional musician, and they are activists, peaceful activists from Myanmar. So they are sharing what they are professional at. So I bring the Joah house trainer to the tang community to share what they are professional of. So we bring our Myanmar trainers to Thai school because it is Thai host community as well. You know, some are rich, some are still struggling with finance. If the kids want to learn English or music, their parent might not be able to afford it. So like we will go down and we will teach them freely. We bring all the art materials and teaching materials, and we share what we have in Joy House.
Brad 12:06
Okay, excellent. So that so it's not, yeah, you're not exclusively operating for Myanmar people. You are. You are operating for people in need generally. Would that be fair to say?
Elisabeth Win 12:16
Yes, yes. Because in Joy House. We, when we start Joy House, we invited Thai people to come and dry our classes. But, you know, majority of Burmese, Burmese people, so, like, they only try, like, for one time. Then, you know, the give up the not like feeling comfortable to come so, like, we plan, like, Okay, how about we reach out them first? So yeah, we try to reach them from the school dry first is a concert that we are planned to do to bring joy and peace to people who are in conflict area. And through this concert, our goal is to like from the benefit from the concert, we want to donate and contribute 1000 instruments to three different places. One is that the time outreach, because when we go to the time school, they are stay in need of like instruments. So we, we want to contribute in a time school. And second, we want to send the music instrument to into Balmar. And number three is we, we will use that instrument in joy house uses classes. That's
Brad 13:48
Excellent. So let's, let's look back at Joy house. Can you tell us how many students Joy house has?
Elisabeth Win 13:57
We have 1000 more than 1000 of students, because ENJOY House. Every year we have like a four different session, one session to three, three months. So in each session, more than 350 people try. So in a year, there are a thought, more than 1000 regular student and we have a different workshop campaign and different classes as well. So last year, we reach over 3000 people.
Brad 14:37
Wow, yeah, oh, that's an That's enormous. And I'm curious like you. So you divided into these, these sessions? How many people come to joy house just for one session, and how many people continue coming back?
Elisabeth Win 14:50
In one session, more than 300 people are joining. So half of the people rejoin the classes again. Yeah. But for us, we have a limit for the place, so we can only give them one basic class and and we call it like a event class when they continue to study about what they have learned. So each session, we have a basic class for music, or the classes that we have in dry house, and we have, like, a few advanced class at dry house. So like the people I keep, you know, drawing in the classes, which is a good thing.
Brad 15:44
Absolutely, absolutely. So that's a that's a large number. Just in my head. If you're saying 350 people join per session, you're looking at about 1400 people per year. Yeah, some of them are repeat. But still, that's, that's a very large number of people. So what? So you say you're limited by space? Are you limited by the number of available teachers as well?
Elisabeth Win 16:09
Yes, and now we have over 30 trainers at Joah house, and we have over 27 classes. But for now we have like for session for 2024 we have like 15 different classes for this session and for the student limitation, we let the trainer to decide, because if they can handle more than, like a 20 people, we allow them, and if we have a say, like a next space for them. So when dry house is starting, we have a small, like a small home. Now we are likely have a chance to move like a bigger space house. So before we can only hold four different classes in the same time, but now we can have like, a six or seven different classes at the same time. Yeah, that's a benefit for us. So like, and then one class, I have a two day in a week. So yeah,
Brad 17:25
okay, and are you limited? Because I know you, you're saying you want to get 1000 instruments. What is the situation currently? Do you have enough instruments for all the students who wants to join now?
Elisabeth Win 17:36
We don't have enough instruments. So you know they have to take turns. If the more students are joining the classroom, and if they have their own new musical instrument, they can stay join the class. If they don't have a own instrument, they can still join the class. But you know, like I said, they have to share the instrument to practice when they are learning filing, guitar, recorder.
Brad 18:07
Yeah, absolutely so. So, yeah, you're still taking, taking in a very, very large number of students, but it sounds like you are, you are suffering from pretty severe limitations in in what you can offer. And it seems then that the demand is quite high. How many if you had all the instruments you needed, if you had all the space you need, if you had all the teachers that you need? How many students do you think would want to come to joy house every session?
Elisabeth Win 18:36
Hmm, that's a good question. You know, in measure, the need of, like, all the difference needed are, like, a big gap, we cannot fill it up. But like, yeah, if we can have a full instrument, we can have, like a 30 student for violent class, and like, a 50 student for guitar class. And like, we can have more student to join the musical classes.
Brad 19:16
So how many do you think that would be?
Elisabeth Win 19:18
It was safe to say like and under 100 because they cannot. Some people thought dry house teach the online classes. The would like to drive from the online but we cannot have an online class right now. And like a few 10s of people, they come and ask that we cannot have them. Like, so like, if like, I can say 50 to 100 people because of the limited space and limited musical instrument. But they can stay, wait, and then they can draw. Join in the next session. So we try to give like a priority to those people who cannot join the current session. So when we open a new session, we reach out them first, like, Hey, we're gonna open the music class again. Would you like to join again? So at the time the people stay, can join.
Brad 20:23
Okay, okay, so opportunities are there. So I know that you said you can't do online classes. So I'm wondering, why do you why is joy house not able to teach online?
Elisabeth Win 20:37
Because for Joy House. We already have, like, a different classes already. So it's, it's, it's gonna be a big workload for, like, the staff and trainer. Okay, yeah, so, so for online class, for the trainer, they can teach for their own, like a professional, they can own extra money by teaching online class, but in dry house, we can only, like, provide some classes. That is why, like, a lot of people are asking for the dry house to do the online class. But you know, when the trainer are teaching dry house, give them a few honorarium so, like, it's kind of like a financial challenges for the dry house, because we already have uh in person classes for like, uh, 27 different classes. So if we have like, a online class, there will be more workload for the staff, because now Joah house only have a five staff. Wow, yeah, to run this operation, so it's kind of challenging so, but we are trying our best to, you know, meet the people needs. So we are taking one step at a time.
Brad 22:04
Okay, that's good to know. And I assume that you would be looking for volunteer teachers to join Joy House. Would that be accurate? Yes. Okay, so I that the question I'm asking, just in case there is anybody out there who might be considering coming to Thailand, that might be considering donating their time, who has musical talent? Would you? Would you be open to, to accepting people who can come in and spend, you know, let's say, one session teaching?
Elisabeth Win 22:39
Yes, of course. We will love to have a music instructor or professional and to teach a dry house. We have a lot of collaboration with our volunteer from different countries, and we welcome if the people wanted to donate their knowledge and their time. And we also looking for like a long term volunteer, because only a few days is kind of effective. But we want like a, like a sustainable, you know, yeah, yeah. We want the people to have a sustainable teaching. And, you know, if the people can, like you said, if they could teach one session like three men, it will be more how to say benefit and effective for us. But it's still okay. If they can come a few weeks or a few days to have, like a collaboration and they want to share, we are still welcoming, and we we arrange the time for those who want to volunteer at Joy house.
Brad 23:51
I mean, that's really good to hear. So you know, just just to the audience, then if there is anyone with musical talent who who might be interested in spending some time in Thailand, donating their skill and donating their knowledge to to people who are in very difficult situations, and people who are sort of not just trying to learn music, but as we've, as we've heard from other guests that we've interviewed, are using music as a way to process the trauma and to process the difficulty that they've that they've gone through.
Elisabeth Win 24:19
I would like to say the music is universal languages that we can interact and communicate through the music. Music can bring peace and music can bring joy. So please, let's support drive fast, which is a focus to bring more joys to people in conflicted area, in a mang places and people in need. So let us join our hands together to bring more peace. Enjoy and they guess when through the music. Thank you.
Phoe San 25:25
Hello, and I'm Putin, and I'm happy to be a part of Troy first. Okay, I'm fire Linux, and also composer. I love sounds in my country. My I ran a small music school in my country, violin school, also the string group there in before the coup started. Then they raided my apartment, and I fled my country, and I stay here in Bora city of Thailand for nearly three years. So here I volunteer as a violent teacher and also do some fundraising consult here for the Myanmar revolution as a volunteer teacher from dry house now, we are now having the joy first, try first, so it's very for me, also the first time to be performing, working with the international musician, yes. So thank you for inviting me to this place, yes.
Brad 26:32
And thank you very much for spending your time. I want to go back and then ask you, you know, violin is not an instrument that we really closely associate with, with Myanmar, it's not sort of part of the traditional musical canon of the of the country, and definitely, when I lived there, there seemed to be much more of an interest among young people in playing, you know, guitar. Did you find that there were a lot of people who wanted to learn violin. Is there a strong sort of culture for violin in Myanmar, or is it sort of a niche instrument?
Phoe San 27:08
Oh, yes. So it. Violin has been, like, popular for like, I think, like one decade before that, not that so popular, and not many violinists violent players in Myanmar. But now the violin is also one of the like popular instrument in my country, like the guitar and piano. But this is not the our traditional tradition instrument, but good things is that we can make, I can play my tradition is Myanmar tune, your songs on that. So you know, violin is the very close to human voice, very, very close. So I we can make more my, my, my, like the senior violins, Myanmar, traditional violinist. They can even do like the sound voice, uh, Voice of the animals with violin. This is very like, Oh, amazing. So this is very close instrument. So now the violin culture has been separated because I in my country, I only my school taught more than 450 students there. This is only my mind school. There are many, many places in Myanmar now. So it's very, very popular and very strong music instrument for both Western and our tradition.
Brad 28:45
Oh, I mean, that's an impressive number of people playing the violin, and I like how you describe its expressiveness and its similarity to to natural sounds. Yes, yeah, that's not something that that I would have necessarily thought about as a thing. And so I'm wondering, so you're saying the violence been popular for a few decades. How did you personally get into violin?
Phoe San 29:13
Yes, yes. So for me, like I, I was somewhat overthinking, you know, I I feel the nature. This is night time. I'm not like doing any sport. But when I was young, doing bad at the time, I read the books, many, many nouvelle in Myanmar. I like the characters from the Nouvelle. They are chromatic Nouveau, the characters, they play violin. And also, like, you know, like, just like shallow, shallow. Con, also, they are like the corridor, inspect, like inspector, right? We also have that corridor. Also the other characters are nowhere. They play violin, another, Moe. Like or other time I thought, Oh, I I could play violin another morning. It will be very romantic and fascinating. I thought that so the how I became a violin comes from the character from the nouveau that I read when I was young.
Brad 30:17
Yes, wow. I mean, that's just a really cool way, I think, to get into it, yeah, especially that connection, like, yeah, Sherlock Holmes does play the violin. Yeah, all of the books and all of the TV shows and movies, he does. But it's, I don't know, it's fascinating to me that that's what left out at you, is the violin element of Sherlock Holmes. But so then, okay, so you're teaching violin, and clearly you have a lifelong passion for it. But then, as you say, after the coup, your home was raided. Do you Do you know why you were raided? Was it? Was it a targeted raid, or did they just randomly decide to attack your house?
Phoe San 31:01
Oh, of course, they try to arrest me. But you know, last year, my mom got arrested because they came again because of my activities. When the group started, the group started, I organized at hundreds, more than 100 of my students and other violin players. I organized 10, and I put them using notes on their on their back, and we walk, and I made a violin movement, one the good standard violinist movement. So I was noticed by the weaver in the in the My Township. Also, what I did is that I when the military started shooting GaNS into the into the crowd, into the demo, like protesters, on that morning, I was protesting. At the time they shoot 2x we ran, wow, I bet one of the university students, he was the same group with me. So he was shot dead at night. I was very sad, and I brought my violin and to the place he died. And I play set, trivia songs there at night, it was very dangerous. You know, military was were patrolling, but I did if someone took the video, and it was a practice on internet saying that I have to close all the classes, and I stay at home and doing some music composing and helping the you know, in our revolution, we find many from many different social media, from YouTube, from website, click, click us. So I make use it and send to the YouTube channel to get many for their revolution. So I did anything at home, but I know in the day, they will come to me that, just like I thought that they raided my apartment.
Brad 33:12
Wow, but so that, I mean, that's incredible. You say your friend was murdered, and then, instead of hiding, you go to the same place where he was killed, yes, and risk your life to play music in protest.
Phoe San 33:29
Yes, I couldn't control myself, and I know that I wanted to do I wanted to say goodbye with my music. And I would so when I play Webu around me also crying. I have that for your footage, yeah.
Brad 33:46
I mean, that's, I mean, that's an incredible, incredible story. And, you know, thank God you, you did survive, and the police, military did not come and kill you as well as we know. Unfortunately, a lot of people were just murdered on the street. But you so you ultimately, you escape, you flee, and you you travel to Thailand, and you're volunteering. So I I understand from you know, a lot of people that I know who've had to escape and are living in Thailand, it is very difficult to survive. For a lot of people, it's very difficult to find work. It's very difficult to find money. And you said you're volunteering. Yes, your violin skill. How are you how are you supporting yourself? Are you also offering to teach people violin for money? Or what is your situation?
Phoe San 34:35
Yes, I am. When I first arrived in Ba sorry, in Thailand, I didn't know what to do. I was illegal. I couldn't go I did not go out because the authority arrested illegal person. But at the time, I have so many and so many that I. Can, yes, Oh, fine. And I can survive that many that at the time, the inflation is not that bad. If I have like one lakh or like one 150,000 Yama, Yama Manny, I can rent. I can rent that place is very like, not that difficult, but currently the inflation very, very bad. To get 1000 back, I have to spend a lot of Myanmar, current Myanmar currency. So I started running online classes. I teach online so I can, yes, I can survive my family with from the my online classes, yes.
Brad 35:47
I mean, how do you find that? Because I teach as well. I teach online, but I'm a language teacher. How do you find teaching music online? I can imagine that would be a very difficult thing.
Phoe San 35:59
Yes, oh, in Myanmar, just like I before, when COVID started in the war. I at the time, other violinists, they don't even think of teaching online, because everyone asserts that teaching violin online is not like, not effective when COVID started in the war, but Myanmar was in a good condition at the time. I started thinking of that, what if I teach online? Is it possible? But I thought when, when the COVID patient, when the government announced that, oh, I have to do something. And I started announcing online music lesson, video, flexing. I started doing that at the time, like other violin. Oh, we can do like that. So, but online view lesson is like the one. They are free, they can see the just like watching YouTube channel, but when we are familiar to using zoom, we I started doing that for me, the it's a bit difficult for first one or two weeks, then it's okay or to teach online. This is an experience that I got from online teaching.
Brad 37:29
That's very interesting, especially with an instrument like the violin, because you don't have frets on the violin, so the placement of fingers is incredibly important. I can imagine it would be very hard to correct someone's fingering through zoom, yes, you know, or they're tuning the tuning of the strings.
Phoe San 37:49
Yeah, yeah, wow.
Brad 37:51
And so you, you also, I believe you composed the piece. J, yeah. J, that there's a video for as well. Yes, yeah. I was just wondering, because I saw the name, I saw the piece. It's a very beautiful piece. And we'll link the video so so people can watch it and can appreciate it. Sort of very emotional. It's not just the music, of course, it's the visual performance in the videos is really beautifully conducted. But I was wondering, with the name j, it just reminded me of Jason, who was who was murdered back in 2000 by Mandalay. Was there a connection to that?
Phoe San 38:37
Yes, of course, that that sound, I didn't compose that song was very famous. And then he is also in Aug. He's also one of the composer, so, but I, I wanted to do that because I, I was at the time. I was in border city of Thailand. You know, in Myanmar, in my nation itself, only orchestra. There are also the money boiling, but they are still working for the government, the military government. So from this side, I want to do something that we can do, even in this very difficult situation. I want to show that the very big, like not orchestra ladies, like the very many, many violent players. I want to show that, oh, they are all the violin players in that, via their family, the some of their houses are occupied. Some of their family parents are arrested. Some are like so we have many, many different story or the violent players in that 40 violence. Student, my students, it represents the 4000 people who died because of Myanmar military. I That's why I organized 40 student chair is like. The fallen star. Yes, one of the chasing is also one of our heroes. So I in honor of the all the fallen heroes from the America. So the Fallen stars we honor with the name chair, yes.
Brad 40:15
Okay, it's a very poetic, very poetic connection there. So I really like that. I think that's really beautiful.
Phoe San 40:23
I when I went to idbs, and when I went into the Jenga ICs and idbs there. So they need art, they need art, but sometimes they have teachers. Sometimes they have someone who can teach them. But they don't have music. Instrument is very, very expensive there. So this is the one of the needs that we mix to art in the igbs is very beautiful because they are always like. They cannot stay like, peacefully, because flight Myanmar military, jet fighter, the old we fly in the San die bone and our children dying our just like our brothers and sisters, they are dying at the time. They need Music To you can help them, just like healing and also the art, like painting. So so we are filling this blank very important.
Brad 41:28
Yes and I think you're highlighting a very important thing here, because the the need to have art, the need to have music, and the need to be able to express yourself musically, is something that a lot of people just don't think about. A lot of people don't consider that yes, especially with the trauma of war, yes, you need to have that.
Phoe San 41:53
Yeah, yes, yes. The main focus for me is like for the IDPs from Myanmar, especially because they are currently in need of that, and also they are in a very difficult place to buy, even if they have money to buy that, there's no place. But in here, in this city, in joint house, if we can fail, this plant is very good, but we are staying in a CD, and we can buy it more easily. So the main focus for me is to help them Id bees, first, then to the dry house. And also the Thai school. Yes, also the I see the students or they, they can, they cannot, bind music instrument. Yes, many, many students there,
Brad 42:42
because these, I mean, instruments, are quite expensive. Yes, like a violin, a good quality violin would be 1000s of dollars. Yes, yes. So that's, that's what I'm wondering. Like, what is the situation at Joy house? Do you Do you have a limit on the instruments you have available? And you can only have so many students, or other students sharing instruments? How is the availability?
Phoe San 43:08
Currently we only have 10 violins. Wow. When I started, like, there are many, many students. So what I did is, like, I made a few classes, not one classes, and then some of the student, they buy, you know, violin price sucks from in 1000 1000 bad. This is not good quality. The fingerboard is not wood, yeah, yes. So this is like them, a bit violin, just like that, try. But if you spend 2000 is, is like the $50 Yeah, dollar. You can buy the violin with wood, meat, bare and several. But is not that good quality, bad for the beginner. This is good enough to practice and to mix. So because when I was young, I also play the violin that was very, very bad quality. I try, but when I get older, and I save many and I so the first step, we don't need much expensive violin. We need a bit budget violin with the quality that is not that bad, we can start with it.
Brad 44:27
Yes, yeah. I mean, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, but it must be a very difficult it must be a very difficult way to teach. But do you like the students who are coming to you? Yes, are they like? I'm just wondering, are the students coming to you because they want to learn via Lee and violin, or is it something a little bit deeper? Are you finding that the students are coming because, yes, music is a way for them to progress?
Phoe San 44:52
Yes, when I first teaching at Joy House, I I felt like I got my my identity, a. Again, wow, because I my life was like I was teaching and I was performing when I flat nearly about one year, I stay in the small room. I couldn't even play by my violin because I'm worried that my neighbor are Thai, if they don't like my violin or not because I was living in dormitory, and also, if they someone, tell the police at the time I was illegal. So I didn't even practice and I didn't even touch my violin. So finally, and then my friend introduced me with join house, and Joah Jenny, he likes my I show my YouTube channel, and now my playing. She likes and started running the violin program. So at the time I when I entered the joint house, I feel like, I mean, I feel very free. That compound makes me like very free. I don't need to care. Often I feel that sense that that's why many people came to joy house for that. So some of them want to play violin, they left, but most of them came to heal their trauma. Just want to do something to buy, by painting and by playing violin or playing guitar. They won't want to heal their self. They want to forget something, but it's not easy. But they want to do help them themselves. So I think most of them came. We came with that, that purpose.
Brad 46:44
Yes, wow. I mean, again, it's just one of those things that we don't, we don't think about when you talk about, you know, musical education, or artistic education, dance education, that it serves this deeper purpose, that it really helps people to process trauma, to process difficulty, and yeah, and to develop that sense of self. And so turning back to the IDPs, the internally displaced persons, what do you think there is any possibility of helping them through music? Obviously, it's possible to use music to raise money for them, but do you think it's possible to somehow bring music or musical education or musical opportunities to IDP camps?
Phoe San 47:25
Yes, we have planned Ginny and Wester. We have plans to do the drawings. Box is like the box that's a small box in that they will be there, like something like, just like memsristic or something. And also, if you have a computer that, at least they have computer, maybe their teacher or something they need, if you put it that, and if they have TV, they were, they can see them using Lexington that was made with good quality, high quality. We were, we have that plan, but San please that they are have, they have a teacher, but simply they don't have and also, if we can go directly there, we will go there just like a couple of days or weeks, or we stay there, then we'll first start that then. So we have the many different way of approaching, thinking of how to approach them, how to introduce them with the music education. The first thing, the easy things, is to send them these drawing box. This is very cool, just like online teaching lesson. Yes, ever that they can see anything, just like how to maintain the music instrument. And, yeah, yes, yes, okay.
Brad 48:49
But I mean, that's a brilliant thing. It reminds me so much of what the Ministry of Education, the obvious, the national unity government, Ministry of Education is doing to have education in places where they don't have internet connection, and just put it on USB sticks and send the education materials to those regions you're, you know, you're trying to do the same thing for musical education, which, I think that's a brilliant thing, difficult, but I think it's a brilliant idea. Yes, wow. That would be incredible to do, because teaching, you know, teaching history, or teaching mathematics or something, okay, you can, it's easy to learn that from a book, but music is a skill, is it's very interesting if, if, if this would work. But I think, I think it could have an incredible, incredible effect. And you say you also try to visit IDP camps.
Phoe San 49:45
You have made many sections there, Art Section, dance and music therapy. And so we divided many, many for each leg, just like they have a limit, limited, limit, time limitation, but they get. Drawing every section. This is just one day. But just like we introduced them with the dance music and painting the first day only, only one day, and also it's not that far to go. So we want them. We still have plans to go again or to other places we are now planning, but sometimes budget on the budget and manager they are doing for that.
Brad 50:35
Yeah but I think, yeah, programs like that would be so, so valuable, I'm thinking particularly for the children as well. I mean, the psychological impacts of being in an IDP camp for them is pretty, pretty extreme. So having the opportunity for something like this, I think would be incredible.
Phoe San 50:56
So I fall as a violinist. I am. Don't try and I bring my violin here, and I did many, many concerns, because I feel and I believe that this is, I can use this, my violin, as the weapon, weapon to send message and to make our voice voices hard so this is soft power weapon with that now join fast with with the art, or we are now making more art, blooming in even in the war zone. We are now trying that that beauty, we are now sending beauty to, even to the Wazo. So this is also the first experience for me to get, like music, instrument and other art supplies. So it's a very good thing. So I will try my bags for the drive first, yes.
52:08
From a hilltop, you see father than a mess without a sail and every prison tree is this moment every from Tun,
Brad 52:20
Welcome back, my guest at the moment, Daniel Saul, one of one of the many people who's been working to bring together Joy Fest and to try to alleviate the situation of Myanmar refugees in Thailand and also internally displaced persons within Myanmar through the medium of music, musical expression and musical education. So Daniel, thank you very much for sharing your time with us and your story with us. Before we go any further, I'd like to give you the opportunity to introduce yourself for our audience.
Daniel Saw 52:49
The honor is mine. Thank you for having me. Thank you for actually, I've been playing guitar when I was young, and then we made a band. And then one day, some guy is, his name is Kim boo. He was a very good guitarist. So he came to our band. So I have to change platform, you know. So I played, I played piano, and then he died in the COVID 19, at 2021 and then, yeah, I still producing music since we've met for like, 2017 and then became a music producer In 2018 and 19, and then so on. So, yeah, I've been producing mostly our OST, the original soundtrack for the movies and TV series. And then that's where I got award, like the Asian Academy, creative award from the Yeah, Asia. So yeah, that was the things, oh, in Myanmar, many of them know that series, because the that was two season, season one is so hot. So yeah, we got, we got to produce season two. And then while we're showing season two, the military coup is happened. So yeah, the the series is about, like, cop, a good cop. So yeah, and then military happened, the card are not good. So yeah, we stopped the show. And then, yeah, what was the name of the show I was in Libya, in English, that was butterfly.
Brad 54:49
Nice, nice, although I'm just thinking as a story, it could still, I think he could still work, because there were definitely police after the coup. Yeah. You know, war. To melons who try to protect the people. But I imagine shooting a show like that during the coup period would have been incredibly dangerous and very sympathetic, and I think it really just highlights the destructiveness of the coup. Like we talk about the loss of life. We talk about the economic damage and the refugees, and of course, we should talk about these things, but we're not talking as much about things like this, like good stories, good TV shows, art, music, creative processes that can also help Myanmar society, and can really raise Myanmar reputation as a nation that has also been destroyed, yeah, because of the military coup. Yeah, yeah, it's terrible. So how did you how did you come to go into Thailand?
Daniel Saw 55:58
Oh by, by some organization, I can mention the name, but there's an organization who helped me to get out of Yangon. They carry me with the van to nyowdi, and then we have to pay for the No. Karen soldier, BGF, so like four, 5500 for each to enter, to enter the mess hall, no. So we have to wait for the San scroll down, and then we have to go through tau in first. And then they said they, they're gonna, we have to work for like 30 minutes, they said. But yet, that's not a 30 minute. It's the whole we have to run and we have to hide. And there, there's so many, you know, Thai police in that area, because Moe, most of Burmese people go in that way. So they, they're waiting there, and then, when the morning come, we they, they go back to their station, or they going back to their home, I don't know, but when the morning come, we can go through that fence and the field and, yeah, that's how we go to that's how we come to Thailand.
Brad 57:37
Yeah, that's incredible. So you said 5500 is that 5500 jet?
Daniel Saw 57:41
oh, no, but, but 5500 BA, yeah.
Brad 57:50
Oh, for one, but this is the the border guard force on the Myanmar side.
Daniel Saw 57:54
Yeah, yeah.
Brad 57:57
Ah, that's really interesting, that they're taking their bribes out. So I'm doing the conversion that's a little bit more than 150 US dollars.
Daniel Saw 58:07
And in that time, me and my wife and my dad and my brother, so four people, and, yeah, my dad has a heart disease, so he had to walk really slow. So the that the military guy, that BGF guy, it's a little bit hungry, and they shouted, shout to us, and we have to go fast. And then, and then I tell him, Okay, you go first me and my dog gonna walk through this road, this narrow road, and under the moonlight, that's okay. Just go. We will come. Because if, if I force to work a little bit fast to my dad, he gonna die, you know, yes, that's why. So me and my dad left behind, and then my wife and my brother go with that BGF guy to the Thai border. So, yeah, my dad worked for like 32nd and he rest for like five minutes. So that will be that was a little bit hard for me. And then I can see his face. He's so faded, you know, and then, and after we go a little bit longer, he's he had my shoulder and said, San, just leave me. Here you just go. And yeah, he, he think he's the problem to this journey. So he gonna stay behind. And then he asked me to go by yourself. But yeah, I can do that, right? So of course, yeah, we wait and we go all night long. And yeah, my wife and my brother too, they had to run a night, all night long because there were so many Thai police with the torch. And the Yeah, then I was so terrible, you know,
Brad 1:00:26
That's, I mean, I can't imagine what it would be like to have to do that, but it's, I mean, it's horrifying that this is, this is what people have to do, you know, to survive, yeah, but, but so you make it to Thailand, and thank God for that. So what, what have you been doing in Thailand? How are you supporting yourself? Are you continuing your music?
Daniel Saw 1:00:51
Yeah, still producing music and in music teacher in the school. But I can mention, you know, because they, they hire me with, I mean, no, I don't have any legal stuff, so they had to hire me secretly, you know. So, yeah, they hired me as a music teacher, and then they put the name part time and volunteer or something, you know. And then, yeah, so I I teach two days a week music, and then I teach piano online, and then I teach piano in May saw and then I'm still producing music and sing one bar in a mess hall for like, Friday night. Yeah, that's how interesting.
Brad 1:01:44
I mean, it's quite fascinating to me, because I, you know, I interviewed Paul San, yeah, and he is teaching violin online, yeah. And that's, you know, I find that fascinating. So you say that you're teaching piano online, and I still just want to understand what is it like for you? Because I teach language, I'm a language teacher by training, and so I teach language online. It's not the best thing in the world, but, you know, we can do it. But how is it teaching piano online?
Daniel Saw 1:02:13
We have visual e piano on the software so I can show them the buttons, where to press and what, what is that node and where, what is that button? You know, I can explain them really simple. And then, yeah, but I got four, I mean, five student, which is done great, one book, and then they're, some of them are starting in Grade Two, or Suu Kyi book two. Yeah, they're so good, you know, the kids are so, you know, so hard working. I Yeah, yeah, but a little bit because, but a little bit hard to teach online. You know, that was a little bit challenging,
Brad 1:03:01
yeah? Like, teaching skills, teaching art online, is just very it's difficult, you know, it's very rough, but, but this is my other question is, are you? Are you finding that the teaching of music, like, who are your students here? Because, are you? Are you finding that the teaching of music is not just about the music itself. Are you finding that people are using music as a way to deal with trauma or as a way to find a new way to express themselves, or are they mostly just learning music because they they love music and they have a passion for playing?
Daniel Saw 1:03:35
I i have some video interview and on, in, on, in, online, like I explained them, we need sports for our body and we need art for our heart. So, so I want to do every I want to do learn every kid like art, not only music, painting, reading, watching movie or singing, song or music, anything every human being needs art. So I want to add that in that from that interview, Sam of the parent, come to me and then ask for the classes and in on dry house, I've been teaching vocal class for those who you know, who don't know what to do in massa. Oh, they're their hobbies, they don't know where to express so I make vocal class in dry house. Miss the first, first teacher who started focal class in Mesa. And then my colleague, she's come to me, so she was graduated from Moe, I guess the Thai. I. I music University. So when she came, so I, I asked her to teach them properly, because I'm not graduated, she's graduate, so she can teach them more effective way. So yeah, I, I asked her to teach vocal class in dry house. And then I step back and then, but I still work for dry house. I still with the joy house. And yeah, I help them what they need. Yeah, with the music stuff, yeah.
Brad 1:05:39
And then the other question is that this is an issue that has been coming up for a long time, but especially since the coup living in Mae Sot. It's from what I'm being told, it's becoming very Burmese, and this is causing tension between the Burmese people there and the Thai people there. Are you, I? Are you finding that there is a difficulty living in Mesa? Are you finding that there's tension between the Burmese and the Thai?
Daniel Saw 1:06:09
Yeah, yeah, and some, some shop doesn't, doesn't, you know, doesn't want to have Burmese customer because so as for me, I I speak in English little bit. So when I talk to them, the shopkeeper look away and they don't talk to me back. Because, you know, Mae Sot was the borderline city. So the education was not so developed, so even the school kid will not, not so good at speaking English. So yeah, so they just look away or walk away. Sometimes, you know, sometimes, but yeah, some of Burmese people, like the they got a lot of stressed, and so they drink a lot, and yeah, sometimes they sing so loud. So for those Thai neighbors, they, they don't, they don't look happy, you know, yeah, so, yeah, only, that's the thing. But the Yeah, I only own that thing. Yeah.
Brad 1:07:33
I'm also gonna curious, like, do students ever come in and they specifically interested in an instrument that you that you don't have.
Daniel Saw 1:07:42
Oh, yeah.
Brad 1:07:46
Okay, what like? What? What instruments are popular among the students or the children who come the drums really.
Daniel Saw 1:07:56
yeah, yeah, because it's really hard to find here, or it's really hard to, you know, see here, so mostly from the church, in the church, and then they haven't got a chance to play that drum or touch that drum, because that was so expensive, and that was got from The donor. So the church leader for bit to play drums. So, you know, they always want to do try, try to play drums. So, yeah, most, most of the student want to learn drum. They said, drum, drum, drum.
Brad 1:08:38
Wow. Okay, this is not an instrument that I thought. I was thinking, Oh, maybe the students are coming. They want to learn flute, or they want to learn saxophone or something like this.
Daniel Saw 1:08:48
But I wasn't expecting drums. They think the drum was so nice to, you know, express their feeling, like, hidden something, you know, hitting so hard, yeah, yeah, that's the thing. I mean,
Brad 1:09:02
I'm just wondering, like, Could you, could you invest in, um, like, an electronic drum kit?
Daniel Saw 1:09:07
Yeah, electronic drums was the second hand was a little bit really old. We have to, you know, we have to repair the console thing. So, yeah, but the, the new, the new one from the, we have city music in Thailand. So that was little bit good and cheap thing, cheap thing. So, yeah, in that, in there, that was start from 8000 and then above. So the 8000 was just, you know, we can use in the court, in the, you know, German session, which we can just practice. The sound was so, so cheap, yeah, but yeah, but we can at least practice, right? So, yeah, we. Planet. But we've been trying to buy actual drum because some ID becomes they don't have enough they don't have enough electric city. So the actual drum, it's good for them, but we they can make so much loud sound in that area, so we have to think about it. So the piano, e piano, and then guitar, violin was the best thing to give IDB comps and some places in Myanmar.
Brad 1:10:41
because it would have to be an instrument that is light enough that you can carry it. It doesn't need electricity. You know, a lot of a lot of concerns with that. I'm also wondering, like, Do you do anything with more traditional Myanmar instruments as well?
Daniel Saw 1:10:59
Yeah, in in in Kyaw, they have their own traditional instrument, but yeah, for us, we have to order from Mandalay, most, most of the Burmese traditional musical instrument, it's made from Mandalay. So we have to order from Mandalay, and we have to care carry there to like, the forbidden area that we can't go, you know, we can deliver that thing. So, yeah, we have to disassemble, and then we have to do many more. And then Burmese instrument, some of the hops, that was cool. But for the sign and then below that, that was a little bit, you know, expensive and so big to carry. Yeah, yeah.
Brad 1:11:54
Because, unlike a sign, a sign doesn't seem like it would be very, very difficult to move.
Daniel Saw 1:12:00
Yeah, yeah, we can disassemble. And then yeah, yeah, we can do but the .
Brad 1:12:05
Yeah, the very large drum, the drum kits, those would be, yeah, those would be impossible, yeah. But yes, because, because that's the other thing that was wondering. Because I know that you go to the IDP camps, yeah, and that's, and I don't want to put you in a position where I'm asking you about things that have security risks, but how do you go or how does the team go to these IDP camps? Are you crossing back through the current border, through the BGF or what is the way to do this?
Daniel Saw 1:12:39
Yeah, we're thinking about local so where you have to go from the Thai border, may also, I guess I've never been before, but yeah, from the Thai border near Chiang Mai. So they, they have to, oh, in dry house. They have another dry house too, in May house, all. So, yeah, that was so near with like, or way, or like, like a path. So, yeah, we're gonna go from the Thai, Thai side, and then we're gonna go to the Myanmar country.
Brad 1:13:14
Yeah, wow. Okay. And from my understanding, local and most of Karenni state is, um is, is controlled by by PDF and eaos, yeah, so it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be as difficult and dangerous for you, hopefully, yeah, but that's, yeah. I mean, that's, that's a fascinating thing. And I know that you do well. I think the plan is to do education in music as well, in the IDP camps. Is that correct?
Daniel Saw 1:13:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brad 1:13:42
Yeah. How exactly does that work? Do you? Do you set up a little school?
Daniel Saw 1:13:48
Yeah, in the IDP camp in like, or there has terrible musical school, okay, that was a big movement in like, or, you know, we in, there are so many places, but Rago is the first place that has musical school. You know, that was so cool. And I've been planning to go, but, yeah, I have to go at least three months so, so I can leave my family. My family member is nine, nine, you know.
Brad 1:14:27
So, yeah, the only guy who work is me, so I can let them, you know, leave.
Daniel Saw 1:14:30
yeah, you can't disappear for three Yeah, that thing. But I've been planning. I've been, you know, I've been still preparing. If I got enough money, I'm gonna give the money here, and then I'm gonna go to that table school. That was because that school was so cute. The school teacher was so nice. They teach, she teach her best, and then I'll want to go there, and I want to teach International. Notes and international you know, what I've learned, I want to teach them what I've learned. So, yeah, I want, I really want to go there, but someday I will go there. Yeah, that's my dream.
Brad 1:15:14
Yeah, I think it's a good dream. And I think, I think what you what you guys are trying to do, what you're trying to achieve here for I mean, especially for the children, the next generation. I think it's admirable. And it's just one of those cases where we, I think all of us are guilty when we focus on Myanmar, we focus on these crises, we focus on strategy, we focus on military, we focus on food and disease and again, we should. These are important things to focus on, but we have to spend more time thinking about culture and art and how we can psychologically help people you know, to process their their situation.
Daniel Saw 1:15:59
In 2019 I have a dream. I always want to make a musical school for free, you know. So if you want to join my school, you have to make proposal or interview. You have to send me CV, so I'm going to read it, I'm going to make interview, and then if we pass, if she passed, so I'm gonna let her be in my music school, and then I'm gonna teach her, or teach him. We're gonna make him to become a teacher, and then go back to their place and then be a music teacher. So we've been planning, we me and my friend still planning to teach music subject in the school, because in Burmese school, there's no music subject in there, so we want to put music subject in the schools. So as you know, many Burmese school is sport subject, pe subject. I mean, PE time, but they don't, they don't usually teach Physical Education. They just, they just let, let me, let, let us do some school work, not the actual physical education. So yeah, for the music it's, you know, so far away. So we want to put music subject in every school we've been planning for that, but the military coup is happening, so yeah, one day I'm gonna make music school free, Music School in Myanmar, and then in every school there will be music subjects. So I want you to come and support Burmese. You know, people to to achieve that goal. You know, so, but first we have to, we have to go through with this military gender reg me and for there, there's some places which is baiko and then Sakai and chin and so many more. So in that area, we want to make music school. We can make any Institute, right? But we want to make small music school. We want to start in every region which is which we we have it like, not under the military control. So we want to make music school in that area. So we're gonna perform our music and our performance, I wish. I bet you will love it, and then for the result, I know you will love it. So yeah, thank you for today.
1:19:23
We're gonna see with a gun in his hand, with a barrel point, not the one who's taking a stand out there's a woman standing if she can, while the children take a beating as they watch your father hang send away. Send away.
Host 1:19:50
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