Transcript: Episode #229: Leon Kennedy

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Host 0:20

Before we get into today's show, I just want to add a quick reminder that any donations given to our nonprofit better Burma will be shared directly with those in Myanmar who need it most. Any and all donations will make such a difference right now. Go to insight myanmar.org/donation If you would like to contribute, or stay tuned to the end of the episode and hear more options with that, let's get into the show.

1:23

Good day.

Host 2:02

I welcome listeners to this episode of insight Myanmar podcast, we're going to be speaking with Leon Kennedy. And we're going to be looking into his life story which brings us very far from Myanmar, and learning about his background and his life experiences. But this is one of those interviews that is able to connect Myanmar, Burmese culture in this case of Burmese lineage of meditation in the form of Sn Goenka that is able to show the perhaps surprising and unexpected connection that this Burmese export of meditation can have in some of the most unlikely of places and life stories. And so we're going to see where Leon's story intersects with the practice of Burmese practice of the passionate meditation. And I'm really excited to to get into that today with you, Leon. Thanks for joining us.

Leon Kennedy 2:59

Thank you for having me. It's an honor and a privilege. Thank you very much.

Host 3:04

So we're going to get later into your story where you found the particular spiritual practice of the passionate meditation. Before we do there's a lot to cover in your own story. And before we actually get to your story, there's a lot to cover in your family story. So tell us first about the family that you came from. Well, okay.

Leon Kennedy 3:26

Generally, as a rule of thumb, I have always shied away from talking about our family because I felt like, defamed and ashamed of family so hard, shame them. The family name on both sides of my family. I was born to Yvonne and Leon Kennedy. My mother's father was Joseph hechos Lowry, who was the founder of SCLC. He and Martin Luther King. They brought Martin Luther King into the organization. They founded it together around the Abernathy, all these kids who were or my uncle's, so to speak, and you Young's and all of the shoulders works in the Abraham woods, the entire Civil Rights Movement, was my note from they were always there. They were family, so to speak. My father's side in Alabama father, his family, which was educators as well. They were had junior colleges named as an unfounded them, build them up. They were all about the community and service in education. So I had every all opportunities. The Silver Spoon was in my mouth. All the Right. diamonds were there for me to wear, so to speak, all the jewels were there. And I was a grandfather, my grandparents. I was I grew up in the civil rights movement in the 60s. Babe, I'm born in 1967 Southern March and since I've been a little bit of b2b fell since I could walk from the March on Washington, this Marshall Selma house, I didn't see a lot of violence. But I did see racism and it's fine. It's because it reminds you up from Atlanta, Georgia. I was born in Atlanta at Emory University. We moved my father's family is from Birmingham, Alabama. My parents were going to Clark my father was in law school. My mom was, they were going to Clark and Emory. So ended up I stayed with my grandparents all the time, and my aunts, my mother's sisters. So I ended up, you know, learning a lot of stuff about the movement, the Middle East, you know, this is back during the time when Eric fit in Palestine, the same stuff that's going on right now was going on back then. And my grandfather, he, Andrew Young, Jesse Jackson, they all went over there. And the federal government labeled them as terrorists, for dealing with the nation, you know, a terrorist nation, dealing with Palestine, the Palestinians, they were trying to push the peace issue between Israel and Palestine bad name. So those were my role models. These were the guys the first time I went to the barbershop. These are the people who would take me to the barbershop. So fast forward just a little bit. We ended up moving back to Alabama, which is two hours away from Atlanta, and Birmingham, where my father's family was, and, and my parents, you know, I'm the oldest child, I'm the oldest grandchild. And so I was somewhat like the golden child somewhat, you know, some of you guys who were that first born, see, you know, you know, the weight that they put on us, you know. And my grandparents in Birmingham, Alabama, they, they've set out everything I need it to grow and be healthy and just learn. And my, my, my mother, and my father got divorce, around about 12 years old. And that kind of destroyed me, you know, I have four or five brothers and sisters. And I'm the oldest, so I used to keep all of them my mom would know, the divorce, because she she got out of school just to raise a family because they know they had he was making. He was a top notch dog at EEOC, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. He was an attorney. He surpassed all expectations. He's very smart. He went Clarence Thomas got appointed Supreme Court Justice. He his private his job before that was the number one man at EEOC. My father was among those ranks when Claire's left. My father was he was high up. So we've, we had a nice bit of money, and things were good. But when my father left, things changed. A mother I felt I would take things out on me, etc, you know, to the broken family syndrome. However, I'm my mother, she is still so much into me. She was, um, I come from a musical family. My grandmother, Evelyn G Lowry. They're very musical, they sing they play. So I have that talent as well. I'm a musician. I sing, I play and I write, but I get it from them. And my mother was the same way. So moving forward, just a little bit more, we're gonna go in increments. Trying to paint a picture here, make it all add up to make sense. We, as youth began to what the old folks used to say, like begin to smell ourselves and we think you, you think you know, a little something you want to raise up a little bit. When I got to that stage, my mother began to see a drastic change in me. I was angry because my father was gone. My parents were divorced. I didn't understand that. I felt betrayed by my father, you know, he left for whatever, you know, whatever his reasons or justifications where he left and it just, I just couldn't deal with it as well. So I started finding different role models. But I had enough inside of me to whereas I didn't stray too far from the grade where I came, you know, but I was in neighborhoods in places where I maybe shouldn't have been. And I was, I was sticking out like a sore thumb. So, mind you, I have all of these little siblings up under me, my sister is like three years younger than me. And then they're all They're all like four or 5678, they stair step all the way down. So I was the only father that they knew. And so I was, I was very hard on my brothers, because they didn't have a role model. And I was just doing the best that I could. So my grandparents, we still go back and forth to Atlanta. Because that's my family, my mother's family, we go back and forth. It's just two hours, you know. So it's, it was a big deal. And I began to resent my grandfather. And my grandmother and not my grandmother, my grandfather represented him. Because I was a grandma's baby. Because my mom began to go through some struggles, which many black women and black people are not, I'm not going to make this a race issue. Because many women go through this when they don't have that income and a divorce. And it didn't go right. This is back in the late 70s, early 80s. And it wasn't like it is now when the women get half of everything worked in. The courts weren't as as prejudice. So my mom was struggling. And I watched my mother struggle and know I had to learn at a young age how to go and pay bills. You know, because my mom, she she got out of school to raise a family so she became a, but she also was an activist for civil rights. She was a community leader, she was a churchgoer, we were raised up in the church, as most black youth. So I found my role models in the church and just so happened, a mother goddess in his church that we will be at the church every day. And they had so many different activities. And it just wasn't like a zealot type of deal. We had activities where you're learning and you're learning scripture and principles, etc, etc. But it was a it was a lifestyle. So along those lines, by the time I was 13, I began to really start to rebel. I ran away from home, came back, that didn't work out like I plant cutting back on. But anyway, I began to be rebellious, angry, I was angry young fella and didn't know why I was younger, I was a rebel Rebel Without a Cause, if you will. So speed up a little bit more. I get to buy, I get to high school. My grandparents, my grandmother used to always send me books, mail me books, in the mail, you know, about black history about other countries who are oppressed, whether they be white, black, whatever color, just people of being oppressed. She sent me books about revolution and just change. And I would read those things. And I was trying to find my way. And it just wasn't working out because I didn't have a real role model.

They're screwed up a little bit more. So I get to the point I go to high school, my mother wanted me to go to an all white high school. It was on outskirts. And so we were the first batch of people to go out there. And it was it was it was rough. Because this you were talking about 1982 in Birmingham, Alabama, mind you, this is the south, the mind set and the mentality in the south is so oppressive, both economically. Whatever sphere would you would love to replace you politically is not a good thing, especially back then. And one would think that being in it was in the 20th 19th 20th century, things wouldn't be like that. But it was in the south, whereas it wasn't like that elsewhere. But in the birthplace of the civil rights movement, it was ugly, and to this day, it's still is the same oppression going on right now. So let's go another increment. I get to the point in my life where I feel a fight in me, I don't know what I'm fighting for. I can't keep still. You know, I'm chasing all the girls I'm fighting. You know, fighting these white people at school calling me they wouldn't I was a little bit of fell off. I didn't grow until I got to be in my 20s late 20s. I was always a little bit of filler. And at the time, they will say the N word. But they wouldn't call me the N word. They would say you know what? You're not even that you are niglet In our final in our state of the school and we will, they would bus us in traffic, we were transit students, they would bus us from the inner city 3040 miles out to the school. And I would get off the bus and I will stay after school that fight every one of you know, I fight them. And so we ended up making friends with the same white goons because they knew I will fight them in a way they respected that. But my mom would have to drive all the way back. Come all the way from you know the city. We are there to get me so that was another hardship. So I had to go through that. And we get back. And she she just thought I was angry. And I was angry. You know, she had already. Let's back up a little bit she had already at one time when my parents when I was young. My mother began to I told my mom one time that I was hearing voices, people talking to me or whatever to hearing searing sounds. And my mother took me to a psychiatrist. My parents were divorced. My mother took me to the psychiatrist and after two sessions, he gave my mother all of her money back. He said he was he's hearing music. You know, I've been hearing music all my life. I've been playing music since I've been about 567 years old. In my grandparents house. My aunt say my mom used to be my background singers. I was writing music and songs and us to write and sing to this day.

Host 16:35

What kind of music?

Leon Kennedy 16:36

all kinds except country all kinds except country from classical to r&b, jazz. Oh, I just don't do because I do folk. I just don't do country. But this fast forward again. We go back and becoming a high school teenager. You know, I'm drinking. I'm going through the high school thing. And it's a wild time in my life. It's a wild ride. I had all the girls. I'm performing. I'm drawing. You're putting mascara on my mustache to make me look like I have a mustache. So I can get into clubs. I'm planning bands where God these guys are grown. I'm too young to get in. So they paint a mustache on me. So I can get in soccer. I'm a keyboardist and I play drums. I play everything. So I'm singing, I'm getting into clubs. And so I'm filling myself you know, then life is good. It's all about sensation. So I think if whatever feels good when you're young to Bigler so it started getting a little hectic. I started making choices that may not be conducive to were the way I was raised. And who I was raised by, and I was driving my mom absolutely crazy. And I started getting involved with people doing things I shouldn't have been doing. get in trouble with the law of the motorcycle kid. I've raced motorcycles, I race cars, you know, before the Fast and Furious. It was us know, we we've been doing that since the early 80s. You know, and it was just a wild ride life and death. I mean, every breath. And it came to the point. I had a partner of mine, who he he, I took the test for him to get into Navy. And I pass it or whatever and got him a job on the flight deck. He turned that down so he could just be a cook. And as a sense of, you know, being grateful, he said, Well, come on, let's go. We went to Florida. He would try to get me to go wherever, whatever state they would send him to. And he asked me to go to Florida and we stayed there for a while, you know, we had fun. And he asked me also to go to Virginia. I said, Okay, when I get to Virginia, I thought I could drink. You know, I'm young. I thought I could drink come out of high school. I went to college by the way. I've I studied computer science. But while I was in school, I left for him to Virginia and we ended up on the naval homes, and we base now these cats right here they can drink. Whereas I thought I could drink me. They these are fish. And we're drinking and I was so inebriated one night with these men. And they left and I was so drunk that I went out and I shot a man. He wasn't bothering me. He was minding his business. He was the epitome of a victim. And I was I was completely wrong. I was so out of my mind out of sorts. And I left. I came back all the way down Alabama. And I drove, I took his car and I drove all the way down. The same guy who was in the Navy would have been that guy to give me in the Navy. He ended up testifying on me. So I got in some more trouble when I got back in Birmingham, Alabama. And Virginia came to get me to extradited me. I was, I was distraught, because my thing was, I'll never go to jail. You got to catch me. Always, always got away. You. They never they could never catch me. And they will know it was me and couldn't catch me. Because I wouldn't go into jail. I was scared to death. You know, I'm a little bit of do pretty boy. What a lot of heart but I wouldn't try and ever go to jail. I felt like my freedom was everything. But I was doing things constantly that jeopardized it. So they take me to Virginia. I'm in Virginia, Portsmouth city jail, I'm probably there 20 minutes. And I've tried to escape. Some, some canines in the parking lot catch me. They take me all the way up on the seventh eighth floor. So you won't you won't be getting away anytime. So the jail is sitting right on the pier, or the ocean on the Atlantic is right there. So if I sit in there and this guy who was shot, he ended up he went into several comas. I shot him in the leg. He had to amputate his leg. He came to court and he couldn't identify me because he couldn't remember anything. Just sent us made 25 years, they were trying to give me three four lives for life sentences. In 19 years, if he died, he didn't die. So I go to prison in Virginia. I'm four or five states away from home. I don't know anybody up there. So I'm young, I'm homophobic. If you looking at me crazy, I'm swinging you know, I'm not I'm not scared to fight. I'm in prison in Virginia. And I ended up they didn't have a band program didn't have music. So I don't have outlet, you know, just playing sports and doing you know what, what everybody does up there. I ended up meeting some people that helped me get into a position with the administration where I could they found that I could play because I can really play. And I play a lot of different instruments. And they let me open up the band room. I started keep on writing. And they allow me to start a campaign against jokes and guns, and practicing safe sex or whatever, because those are the type of songs I was writing back then, has to do to this day. And this is an 80s at 89. So I ended up making parole. At eight years, eight, nine years, I come home. I thought that I had fixed my mental thinking there. I thought that I got my stuff together. You know, I was I wasn't thinking retarded or crazy, like the rest of my generation. At that time. I thought that I had it on the ball. But what I had done was remember I came up in a very deep rooted Christian spirituality. For me. When I got in prison, you start learning different things. You find out things about other religions, etc. And so I left all that alone. I moved on. I tried Islam. I tried more science. I tried Five Percenter, but I ended up saying to myself, all of it was just something to control the masses and I'm just gonna do with right I'm just gonna do the right thing for me. Just treat everybody right now. I'm just gonna, that's gonna be me. So when I come home I think you know, I'm thinking I'm, I'm the man. I get myself together. Rent it to into a girl. My first way and we get married. You know, we fell in love got married. We planted a family, we got pregnant. I was working. I was still dealing with my grandparents, all of them. They were very supportive. But I always wanted to do it on my own. I didn't want somebody to say they gave you this because you're you're one of the Lowery's or Kennedys now, I'm not gay, this myself Leon did this. I wanted to be self made. And I felt like I had the wherewithal and the knowledge to do so. So I was doing pretty good. I was working to have a lumber company as the first black salesman did they ever had selling lumber packages, so I'm making more money than I ever had? That was actually my money, not my family's money. And we live in life in one day, I just so happen to see took the guys. I had a customer who needed his job done. Correct. He's brand new customer. And I needed this job, this lumber load dumped, right? So I said, let me take all these truck drivers to lunch. So that I can, you know, butter him up, helped me out here. And I did and I said, let me go go to the bank and get some money. So I can buy this Hardee's guys lunch, my wife had been ragging on me about using the credit card, all these different places for the surcharge so Oh, whatever. So it tells me where your bank is over here. I know, the bank that I met is not over here. This is no way. It's no bank like that over here. So yesterday is right around this corner. We went over there.

And sure enough, there it is. The bank that I bank with. And I was like, wow, it was in a place where a bank shouldn't be, you know, somewhere where you you can't see the bank is covered up by trees. And it's like, it's like a cottage. It's not a bank. And that criminal element was still lingering in me, obviously. And I went in that bank and got my money out, got to guys lunch. About a whole year I've been out of prison about two years. For a whole year, I kept thinking about why that shouldn't have been there. Why the bank shouldn't have been there. It was bothering me just stayed on me so long, an entire year. And I said, Well, I could just go and my wife is pregnant. Now. We've we're we were pregnant, the baby's on the way. And I said well, maybe I could just maybe I could. If I was on a motorcycle. I could do that and be gone. And I decided to rob the bank. But I didn't have any back a trust to go with me. So one of the guys who I knew in Virginia in prison. One of the guys I really respected he was a Five Percenter he was he was pretty even keeled. He wasn't crazy. He was just No, he'd been locked up for about 1920 years. And I only did like eight, nine years. And he got out on my birthday. And my my ex wife, she called me and said, Look, somebody's name suddenly says is calling calling. So it was him. He got out of prison on my birthday. And I knew that I could trust him. He's from New York. And I'm in Alabama. And I said, Look, you need to come down here. And we could do this right here. You know, we can do this and get away with it with this bank is not supposed to be here. Because I knew that he was gonna be down and I could trust him. He comes down. We go rob the bank. tracking devices were in the money. We got away. But the tracking devices were in the money. So they followed us. And they followed us guys. They followed us to my house. I'm at home. So we're sitting in the room count money. Looking counting money. My stepson said, hey, it's a policeman outside. And everything froze. I've got guns in here. My wife don't even know I'm home. You know, I'm more afraid of her than I am afraid of the danger or the excitement of the bank? No, that wasn't too tough for me. I was like, man, if she comes here and sees all this money, man, she's gonna go crazy. So sure enough, they hate the entire subdivision completely surrounded maybe about 450 law enforcement agencies or officers from ATF FBI. For several municipalities, it was a big deal. And the tracking devices weren't accurate. So they didn't really know exactly which house, but they knew they were in the right spot. So when I went out and looked out the window, I saw my neighbor's looking around there on the street. So I stuck my head out when industry too, but I got a gun in my hand, hiding behind a door. And I go to my coat McAuliffe, and I say, Look, they're all out here is hundreds of offices surrounding each house. You see, they're also in the back surrounding each house. You can hear helicopters overhead is serious. They had already shut the freeway down, closed off everything outside of the subdivision. So I said, let me go back and look again, I went in a tow my ex wife. As I look back, I had a bulletproof vest on when I took it off. So she would see it and wouldn't freak out. But when I saw them, the second time, I stuck my head out the window just to look again. Because everybody's acting normal. The FBI chief pointed at me, because he had been speaking to several neighbors, mind you to tracking devices are accurate, but they're not that accurate. Anyway, this happened to me. And I knew that they were looking for me. At that moment, I took my gun from behind the door. And I waved at him. And that's a no you come here. And I closed the door. And I went and I told my wife at the time. I said, look, they come in to get there. She didn't understand. She was like, what are they? What did he do? What did he do? I just didn't want him because I didn't have time to explain to her because I knew things were about to go haywire. My co defendant, and I had already decided we're not going back to prison. So we're going to whole court in the street. This is it. You know, this is part of the deal. When I came back into the room where he was he was on the phone with his daughter, she was screaming. And he was telling her goodbye and we left her we headed out to front door with these weapons. Hi, Ella, the concussion grenade in my pocket. And I figured out how to distract them long enough. It was nothing in my mind. They didn't believe I was gonna get away, you know, because I've always been, you know, action figure type do racing, car racing and all this stuff. But this was a little different. And just before we went out the door my brother grabbed me by the back of my belt. He said, bro, if we go out here like this, you know they're gonna come in here, and they're gonna kill everybody in the house. They're not going to ask any questions when he said that. I was crushed. I was so go on my own. Selfish. Whatever. Then I didn't even think about that. So I just fell on my knees and laid the gun on the ground. I went back into a room bedroom. And I told my ex wife. I told her I said listen. They won't meet she passed up. She's like, seven, six months pregnant. She's bigger the house and she just collapsed. So I dove up under her. So your knees wouldn't you know squish the baby in a later down the floor. Lovely. Oh my goodness. I kissed her stomach. Tone a baby. We went out Serena. When we are back at it. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. We went out and we survived. That was in 1999. Let's fast forward a little bit. It was a joint arrest federal estate. It was the same case but they named it different things.

The State of Alabama gave me four life sentences. Random all consecutive. The federal government says maybe 12 years for the same you know, deal. I thought about it escape it, I was very distraught. You know, I had a lot of energy inside of me that was hurt suffering that I felt so ashamed what I had done to my family little girl, it was a little girl, by the way, she was a girl, I knew she was a girl. And she unborn, but I know it was girl and go to prison. All the time I'm in prison. I'm just thinking, how can I escape because, you know, I don't want to die here. This is not this is not what I'm going to just not how it's gonna end for me. So my wife at the time was saying, No, this baby's gonna need you, you know, she's gonna need you. The little girl grows up in the visitation room. They ended up like three, four years later, running the four consecutive life sentences into one life sentence. And I make parole like 10 years later. The feds come and pick me up. And I start like sixth year in the Fed. My daughter's growing up. She's She's a beautiful young lady. But she's angry. She's has anger issues that just kind of trickled down. Because her dad wasn't there. During the time she was see me as visitation found out. She only knew me through the phone other than visitation. And I try, you know, wisdom only so much you can do because there's so much depression and restrictions in there. It was a my own making and doing it. I knew I can't. That's what they do. I put myself in a situation. It's I don't blame us. I put myself in that situation. Anyway, anywho ah, I go to the faith and my daughter stopped speaking to me. She's going through a lot of it. She has a lot of anger issues as well. Five years that kids don't speak to me. Now, nobody knows why, you know, nobody, my wife and I got divorce. You know, and so life is you know, I'm just free falling, so to speak, no pun intended. And my things started to kind of change because I'm programming the whole time I'm in prison, I work for psychology services, I work with all the groups self help classes. I teach them my another, another gentleman and myself, we teach how to self help classes, I'm going to overdraw program. I'm in drug treatment, and I wasn't an addict, but I just, you know, it's program because that's my family background, that's, um, that's kind of like I'm a, I was kind of cut from it. So I gravitated to it naturally. So I meet a lot of people, I'm the guy who, when they, they have guests, or professors or whatever, we were the ones who the model inmates that's going to take them around, and, you know, speak with them, etc, etc. Meanwhile, my daughter, I know she's not talking to me, and every now and then I got a best friend of mine. From when we were 16 years old, she was a girl, we were very, very close. She reached out every now and then because we were best friends. And we still are to this day. And she reached out here and there. But I can never really connect because so much was going on in my life. It was almost like I didn't know. So boom, all of a sudden, one of the psychologists there. The person that comes into play, and they want to do they want to try it. So it didn't come through at first. But I'm a part of a drug treatment program and in psychology. And this kind of trickles down through myself and the other guy OB he's from Uganda, he's still in prison. He's still doing the same thing we were doing the whole time we we try to help people and be a part of the solution in a very, very dark place. And they hand picked us to be a part of the partner. It was a deep screening process. And you know, we didn't know what it was and we heard about it and we did the homework and watch the films and educated ourselves about it. And we found out you know what's going on in India, you know, and this and they we had a psychologist at the time who was brilliant enough to want to introduce this in a system. You guys were slavery. Bottom line You are not a human anymore. When you come in Alabama prison system is the culture. You are less than a man or a woman that other women go through the same thing is the culture is how they teach them to treat us. And that's why it's such an animalistic and barbaric system, because that's how it's framed up. And we ended up doing Vipassana. And it was one of the greatest experiences in my life. By the fourth day, I was, you know, I couldn't help a crying crisis. I was a weeping from my soul. And I couldn't stop. And for those of us who know about Vipassana, you know, that insight is just you in a mat. And I'm dealing with it. And sometimes I do good, and sometimes I wouldn't. But I dealt with it in. As it progressed, I progressed, things started changing OB and we converted the gym, we will overeat, we had to transfer a penitentiary gym, and a level six institution, one of the worst prisons in the country. We transformed that gym into a meditation center, a place of peace and serenity. And it was amazing. It was something I'll never forget. We finished the course. It was a success. And they were like, because this was such a success, Jonathan and Bruce. And it was such a success that we're going to do it again. But this time, we're going to be using you Leon and OB as assistance to the teachers. So that was such an honor. And we took so much pride and protecting the program and protecting the integrity of the program. You know, it was no it was no foolery no goofing around with this because we knew that the administration did not want this to succeed. The chaplain was considered a devil worship because it was getting more attention than his, you know, what he believed in? And mind you, I was a Christian. I skipped over one thing I'm going to wreck er one day. This is before of a pass now, just before we gave a passing in 2002. And I was under so much stress and pain, suffering. I just fell out on a wreck Er, oh my face. And they told me I had a stroke has cardiovascular accident. So on there, wow. I had a limp. And I didn't understand what was going on. And I was like Woe is me. Why me? Wow away. Fast forward again. And I apologize for the segment. fractured, pauses in jumps, but I'm trying to create his picture here because it's all going to come together in just a second. We ended up doing the second Vipassana as assistant teachers in we learned how to serve we were serving. And it was a success, great success. A lot of guys completed it. We were 28 and 20 out. We were the first in North American history of America to for it to ever happen. It was a big deal. HBO wanted to do a film about it, the partner. It wanted Sundance Film Festival. It did a lot of good things. It helped a lot of people it inspired a lot of people inspired me inspired all of us. We ended up going on ahead and getting to the point where the administration began to reduce our time to meditate. We had a special concession may where we could meditate in the same classroom. We're Obion I would teach these classes and they started cutting off into that and they wanted to wipe it out. I ended up leaving getting transferred. Defense come get me a steel guy this limp. I'm tired all the time. My head is hurting. Really. I feel like my my organs aren't working. And this is like 15 years later I mean to feed see It's time for me to almost go home. And lo and behold, the state of Virginia, based on that old 1980s case, put a detainer on me and came and got me. I owed him like six more years. Before I finished that sentence.

They came and got me, flew me back to Virginia. I was sick, I was really hurt and say my daughter thought I was coming home. No, so now she's really shut down on me. And she kept getting a little hopes up, and it'd be smashed. And I'm in Virginia prison. I'm still programming. I'm working for the award. I'm still over all health, self help programs, and I'm still doing the same thing. I'm still being who I am. I've always been a part of the solution. This is using me, I guess. But while I'm there one day, I'm found unresponsive. They run me down. It was in December, they run me down the boulevard put me in an ambulance. And they're hitting me with the defibrillator over and over and over and over again. Trying to close my eyes, but I'm looking dead at them. I'm looking exactly. I'm looking right at them. But they're trying to close my eyes. And I hear one of the EMT say, Don't hit him again, is nobody's home because nobody's home. I couldn't believe what they were saying. You know, and suddenly, the guy was like, wait a minute, you know, he's, he's not dead. I wake up, like, do we have four days later, I'm handcuffed and shackled in a hospital bed with two officers. Sitting at my side and at my feet. I don't know where I am. I can't speak. And I see a doctor standing over me telling me that listen, you have Ms. Yet your brain is completely covered with lesions just by and now your cervical your back your legs, discover of legions active legions. Your organization down. And you your life will never be the same. You will never be able to walk and talk anything again. I couldn't even talk. I stayed in the hospital, maybe two weeks, they took me back to prison and put me in the infirmary in Virginia. My mom, nobody knew. I couldn't call anyone my mom, my family. So I was just me. It was almost like I was on nomadic eating. Which is just kind of deal with. And it's nothing you can do but deal with it. But this was different. Know in my life, generally. If I did something, and there were consequences, I could be man enough to deal with it, you know, but this wasn't something that I did. You know, MS is a disease that they they don't know the origins of it, there is no cure. So I didn't do anything to get this. You know, this wasn't something that I could claim lay hold to. And my family meanwhile, when they find out what's going on, they're going crazy. You know, everybody's going crazy. Everybody's suffering, suffering, suffering because I'm suffering. I stay in hospice, in the infirmary in prison for two years. I had to learn how to tie my shoe talk well, I used to be defecate and I used the bathroom all by myself because my organs were failing. I've been on several different chemo treatments, trying to stifle my immune system in it's just whatever medicine they give you. The side effects have you taken other medicines to deal with those side effects and so forth. It just keeps repeating itself. So I was fed up with medicine, just sick all the time, but I began to get a little bit better. Things started changing. I was hurt. I was so hurt because I had dreams. I'm a musician. I'm a singer songwriter. They were telling me I had never seen play. Again. It's just not possible. They would take me to hospitals in Virginia, Virginia is a hospitals, medical town. And those neurologist started telling me that you might be the 1% because you're not supposed to be able to do some of these things that you're doing, I began to get better. Ah, I had been rekindled, we established my relationship with God because I was a Christian. And I go back to my roots. No. And I was incorporating the Vipassana as well to try to hone things in but I was so angry steel, because I didn't do anything to make myself into that person. I was hurt, helpless. But everybody knew me. So when they put me in population, I had the whole prison trying to help me, and you know, get stronger and and I got stronger, and I got stronger. And eventually, I'm a pro. I finished the sentence completely. I didn't make a row. I finished the sentence. And I went home. And they're saying best friend, who I was talking about when I was 16. That pretty girl. You know, she and I had been talking during this process when I was sick in infirmary. And we fell in love. And we planned to have a family together and get married. And I came home to my mom to her. We got married. We've been married 333 years now. Three years now we've been married. And my daughter now I say going, guys 21 years. It took me 21 years. So when I came home, she was 21 Right now she's 25. So desperate been my story so Vipassana to bring it full circle. I got better, I got stronger. I got really good and strong. I started being able to do things that they say everything that they said I'd never ever do again, Jay, I began to do. I mean, it was a it was like I was just thanking God, you know, but my practice the partner, it wasn't as intense as it used to be, you know, you get distracted because life is going on. But when it came time for me to focus, I knew how to focus on the brother. To this day, I do. I began to, in wanting this story up, I began to I got on a new treatment. And the treatment was working good for me, you know, no side effects, et cetera. And I began have pain in my back in my hip. Excruciating pain, like unbearable pain crisis Taipei. And come to find out I had to have a hip replacement. The bone had deteriorated over the years of all these treatments. And when your bones don't receive blood, because Ms restricts the flow of certain organs. The bone will deteriorate. And that's what happened. I had to get a hip replacement, the hip replacement went bad. And right now I'm on a wheelchair and a walker just like I was when I was in prison. So now revisiting those same emotions that I was feeling in helpless. I'm getting better. I'm getting stronger but I can't do those things what I used to do all my friends my teachers from the past no I'm in deep communication with all of them now. I'm an advocate in Alabama prison system, a lobby against the parole board because the oppression is so great in Alabama prison system is is likened to a third world country is terrible. They're dying in there at an exponential rate from drug overdoses, Officer killings and they're killing each other is terrible. Whereas it used to be the only level six in the state where I was meant or LBN our is like that all over at the level of fours and to go home camps they're killing each other all the time. And they're suffering so bad so I advocate for them. I go in a lobby give a give going give talks about meditation in my experiences. And because I'm not the guy used to be and I don't missed the guy I used to be but I love who I am today can this was such a blessing to be home. My mom died a year or year ago.

I'm glad she got a chance to see come see me do good in and be the person that she knew that her father, and her father's father raised me raised me up to be. And I'm 56 years old now. It is such a blessing to be alive and to be able to share my story. Hopefully, this will bring some light or insight to someone else's story. And I'm so grateful that you, Jay, allow me to be a part of this. Thank you.

Host 55:42

Thank you for so openly and vulnerably sharing life's journey that hits upon so many points and the imagery with which you give of the different stations that you went through. And there's some various parts, I want to go back and uncover a bit more what's kind of emerging right now to start with is looking at those intersections with Myanmar, because there's a long history and Myanmar of democratic activists and those that are are pushing for human rights and against military oppression. Those who are not killed by the military are put in absolutely horrendous prison conditions and, and our political prisoners for many, many years and show trials and, and just hidden away from the world. And I've spoken with many of them here. And many of those with their Buddhist upbringing with their passionate upbringing, some of whom have practiced the same tradition of Sn Blanca, as you have others have practiced other treated other the passionate traditions in Burma, but to a person they have expressed that the the mental balance they were able to, to gain through their practice. And then one of very tragic occurrence. Last year, one of the Democratic leaders was executed state execution sham trial in Myanmar. And one of the last words he said was a note to his parents saying, telling them not to worry that he was continuing to observe his breath and to, to know his mental intentions and his past karma. And that he, he was literally walking to his death, and he was killed by this military regime with this, this mental observance in mind as he was doing it. So bringing whatever sense of calm and acceptance as he could to that truly awful situation we can't even comprehend. But so many of them in Burma have have told about being able to survive these conditions, as well as democracy activists that we talked to that are on the run and in hiding in safe houses and trying to escape what awaits them from from these military authorities, and have described turning their prison cells into meditation cells. And using that as a way to balance their mind in one particularly powerful story, one of the current Democratic leaders now, Lynn thant referenced how, at one point when he would meditate, the prison guards became afraid of his meditation, they thought he was practicing some kind of black magic. And they would actually beat him whenever they saw him sit cross legged, which, again, just takes a new level for those of us practicing meditation in the free world, to think of this as the one thing that shouldn't be able to take away from you, and that you are getting physically beaten for even getting in the position of mindfulness. And so I'm prompting you with all of this background, because I think we have a wide array of listener listeners tuning in, I think we have those meditators and practitioners that are in the West, and that are interested in sharing a practice with you and where their own spiritual journey in the free world is intersected with, with your very unique story, but I think we also have many Burmese listeners tuning in that probably has known someone who has gone to prison unfairly and has either themselves or known others who have used meditation to get through a very awful and unjust and unfair situation. And And as I've turned back and relied on that, and so it's interesting, it's beautiful to be able to bring your story from such an unlikely place into into their ears and to realize the Connect kin that is there that some practice from their land native to their culture that they grew up in their families, understanding and which came to them as a refuge in the most unlikely of places that in a place that was actually as you referenced was actually hostile to it because of the deep Christian faith you find in the south. And the the fear they had of of this other practice, that this practice would find you there's so there's something that's been shared your story is strangely, very something that is, is is hitting a an intersection and what's going on in Myanmar right now with many of these democracy activists and political prisoners, now falling back and relying on this practice in the terrible situations they're going through. And so before I asked more about different points of your life, which I want to get to, I want to give you a chance to speak to this, I want to give you a chance to, to comment on how this practice was able to serve and support you in your time, as well as to have this understanding and awareness of an audience that's tuning in, it's not just a practitioner audience in the West that might follow same practice and with a sense of freedom. But those in Myanmar that are continuing to struggle against this oppression, and whether they're in hiding are in prison, that this, this is a practice in some form, whether it's the exact technique is yours or not, that some form of a passionate is playing really a critical role in these aspirations. And this the selfless struggle, not unlike the civil rights movement, really, that they're going through now. So just anywhere you want to go with that. Okay,

Leon Kennedy 1:01:53

I can start it off this is this is, and I'm sure you and as well as others will be be able to relate with this. Immediately. Suffering is suffering, I don't care how you try to put the pig on a lipstick is to a pig with lipstick on it. Suffering is suffering. And we all I think our vessels individually, comprise that have different levels of what we can contain. So although you might be able to suffer a little bit more than me, that sufferance is still suffering. So whether you be in Iraq, Afghanistan, Myanmar, or Alabama, Mexico, you're suffering, because you are you're oppressed, you're suffering, because you're hungry, and they won't feed you in the food that they're feeding you is not fit for human consumption. The food, the way they're choosing you is not humane, they're killing you. They're killing guys that, you know, you're watching friends that you've done all this time with die from lack of being getting medical treatment, in the so called free world leaders of the free world. They're dying in there. From cancer, everything you can think of the medical services are horrendous. They're under so many lawsuits, they they, they get to the point where they get confronted so bad by the courts, they just get another shell company and shut that one down and open up a new one. This is what they do. And meanwhile, your friends are dying in front of you. And I had a good look at it because I will be able and I will be in a position to whereas I would have to go based on my job to go and write letters for guys who couldn't write their song death row, sometimes they're sick. And you got to write their family form sitting up on the outside of the sail, or in the infirmary, where guys have sick and you're dying. And you're talking to you know, you're begging the officers. Let me go just be with them for a minute, you know, talk with them, guys that you've known for all these years, you know, and you watch them grow and you watch them die and you watch them die and you watch them die. So whether it be Myanmar, AR or any place in the world where there is oppression and suffering. This suffering these injustices have been going on since the beginning of time. Ah, it's a blessing to be a part of that cloth or person. personhood where you can be a part of the solution. Be a light in a shining a dark place. Just a spark. You know, there's just enough so, to my brothers and sisters Myanmar and other places in the world where they are being oppressed, slowly genocide, starved enslaved, whether it be the past no Christianity, Islam or whatever it is their special place that you find where you find that strength, to where you can hold on, just to hold on hope against hope. My grandfather used to give speeches and I used to hear him say that, hoping against hope, it took me a long time to understand what that meant. But until you are destitute until you are divorced have everything that you thought existed, whatever the real till you experienced it is impossible to want to be a part of the solution is important as possible, they want to be an advocate. So I entry I beg, implore all of my brothers and sisters who have been through this, which Ben because you know what it is in there. You know what it is? Suffering is suffering, whether you be Myanmar Palestine, Israel, Ukraine, way up all over the world since the beginning of time, the sufferance is the same. These are no new eels. These are these are not new things in life. This has been going on a long time. I just hope that the people that make a difference as yourself in podcasts, and platforms, yes, platforms such as this, to where you can bring a like minded spirit of resolve. These are the people in places and things that really give you true hope, not false hope, true hope, to where as you hang hold on to something is real. When you're sitting down in the state of Alabama with four life sentences. And it will mean it had many more life sentences than me there is no hope in guys sometimes getting involved in things out of hopelessness and make decisions and a lifestyle of evil because they don't have any hope. They feel like they don't have nothing to lose. I'm quite sure the people in Myanmar do the same way. And it puts you in a different frame of mind. To survival instinct becomes can become brutal, barbaric saving graces when those elements in your character and your spirit, they still have this marking when you can hold on to some truth and some wholesome things in spite of it. When you can hold on to your faith, your religion, your your meditation practice, if that gives you what it takes. Even if you have to die. That's That's enough. You've served your purpose is sad, but it's a sad reality. And at last bear my story, and I still live like that to this day. Life is so precious. There's so many people in the world suffering beyond measure beyond what we in the West have any clue about I notice all the time how you never hear anything. I'm a CNN fanatic. I watch a lot of international news you hear never hear anything about what's going on in Myanmar. Yeah, you have to go on YouTube, you have to go into, you know, different special outlets that the media has it. They have everything. So these people are suffering. Suffering is suffering until you suffered. You may not be able to empathize enough hope they they make a difference in everybody's fight. And I hope that everybody is fighting continues to fight. Hold on, hope against hope.

Host 1:09:44

I also want to ask a bit more about your upbringing. Just your background you. Your grandparents, as you mentioned, the Joseph and Evelyn Lowry, the place that they themselves have In the civil rights movement, Joseph Lowry was called by some as the dean of the civil rights movement, but you also ran in circles of Rosa Parks, Ralph Abernathy, Martin Luther King, Junior's family, etc. And so you you reference being a child of the 60s, also a child of the civil rights movement, I think maybe other African Americans growing up in that time might use that phrase, but it's very different for you, I mean, you're very literally a child of the these giants of this movement. And so, being a young person being the child and obviously the world, the conditioning that we get as children that we don't have the context to really understand the things we're hearing and perceiving until later when we start to realize the difference in whatever environment we grew up in versus other other ways of growing up. And so as you look back and you think about just your, your childhood and teenage years and these influences you had I mean you were your your aunts and uncles were not blood related but the people you call the aunts and uncles these were these are giants of the civil rights movement that are knit their names are etched in history books and biographies and statues I'm sure all over you you had interactions with them as a child what you saw what you heard, what you understood dinnertime conversation, etc. So can you take us back there to these childhood experiences and just describe what what your understanding was at that time of what this whole movement was about from a child's perspective of being around these leaders, as well as the just what you were hearing from the conversations and some of these people as well. Just your, your memories and interactions on a personal level with with some of these great historical names.

Leon Kennedy 1:11:49

That is an excellent excellent, excellent question. Oh, wow. When I was a kid coming up in my mind, they weren't civil rights icon so activist saw revolutionaries, what have you, they will aunts and uncles, because they will always at the house. You know, the news was always I remember when CNN first with me was a local station in Atlanta, and they would always be over there to house you know, in front of my granddad and, you know, the likes of No, Rosa Parks that was aren't Rosa. The likes of Harry Belafonte. That was Uncle Harry. You know, that was the was these were civil rights icons, Reverend woods, Shuttleworth Abernathy. These guys were on the they weren't superheroes to me. They weren't, it was normal. I remember when Vanessa Williams won Miss America, you know, she came to the house. And in I, I was a teenager need. And I didn't, you know, I didn't really know, whatever. I just saw this fine chick, you know, up there visiting with my grandfather, and we met to meet her, you know, and I was, you know, trying to just, you know, being flirtatious or whatever, my grandfather shooed me away. But these were the people that I would run across in me from. But as a child, and seeing these people, it wasn't anything to me, you know, they the good, I thought that they were related to me. I thought that he would relate it to me, because they will always be there. Or they will be in places where we were frequent or whatever. Because, you know, what, as I got older, and I started to realize things. I wanted to be a part of it, too. I wanted to be a part of as well. I wanted to be a part I wanted to be like my grandfather and my father and my, my other grandfather, because they were important mean, you know, they were big guys that were important to me. And I wanted to get notoriety. And I just thought that they were, you know, phenomenal. Coming up. They were my heroes. But it took me a while to get to that point. Because at first it was like, you know, if he's, if your dad if your dad is Michael Jordan, or LeBron James, you know, it's like, whatever, you know, it's my day. It's not the same guy you see jumping across the gym, fly. But my my experiences as a child, from Lou Rawls to pretty much whoever you want to name coming up in May, but it also did this to me. Once I kind of figured out who these people really were. And why. Why I knew them. I wanted I wanted it was something immediate wanted me to. I wanted to make my own way. I wanted to make my own way, not based on who am I My parents and grandparents were on both sides. I wanted to make my own way. So music was my challenge. And when I was young, I sang background for point of fire for a couple of nights, you know? And I said, No, I was in the music industry a little bit. And I thought that that was my niche, there was going to be my way to where I can make myself stand out like them. But it always brought me full circle on those principles, those pillars of character that I learned from those, my grandparents, my mom, my dad, always kind of, even when I was ripping and running in the streets trying to be be bad with the bad boys. I still wouldn't go with so far because I was kind of all the echoes from what they taught me. What echoing ringing in my soul in my head, my mind. Out there, I've look, I've never claimed to be perfect. But I do. I can't say this. I pay my dues. You know, so I'm not proud about what anything that I did. But I know, I pay my dues. So I don't have no any guilt anymore. The guilt I felt from when I left that little girl, it almost killed me. That baby that almost thought I was gonna die from guilt. Guilt will kill you. Yes, yes, yes, guilt will kill you. And that is really any still is an issue to this day. But it's not as bad as

Host 1:16:36

so you said that you referenced just now how there were these values and ethics messages that were ringing in your ears from your family, as well as the non blood relations that were basically like family. And I'm curious what those were because, again, these are great historical figures. So as you said civil rights icons, anyone can go to a Wikipedia page or a YouTube or, or get a book and they can read who these people were and what they represented. But again, there there is a difference between these their historical feats and speeches and what it was like being in a room with them and being in a room with them as a 10 year old or 15 year old. Even more so that, that you just you get you can get a different impression. And different things can come out in those kind of environments. And so beyond the the great historical things we know about these people, I'm curious as being a young person in the room with them, eating meals, taking walks, having conversations, etc, etc, the mundane things, and being a young person who they might speak to in a different way. What What would you describe as how would you characterize some of these these ethics and values and messages that you gain from them at this young age?

Leon Kennedy 1:17:54

I would say this as a 56 year old man now, having gone through all of the experiences collectively. I can say this, to simplify. They're just regular people. They, they they make jokes. They laugh, they do right. I mean, when you're there as a kid, and even a preteen or whatever. This is regular people live in life. They just had us they had a cause. You know, when it came time for them to align that calls, they would they would do what they needed to do to have a meeting and plan and decide who's going to same way that normal people the same way man, I got it perfect is the same way you and I plan this podcast it this way. Like normal people. I mean, it's just it's not a grand is not a great big thing of grandeur is like a normal happenstance that people communicate, plan, think and talk laugh. bodily functions, you know, you Merck people burped. You know, it's the same way. I mean, but I get I get it, I get exactly what you're what you're asking me. But it's always more simpler than not. Yeah. It's more simpler than me. As I got older, and I can see how they develop their speaking craft more, because I watched him grow as well. They got better and better at what they did. And I was like, wow, you know, it's an art to this thing. Just like with the practice and like meditating, you know, when you when you first start meditating, no matter what kind of practice you do, you is so strange and abstract to you at first. When you start learning a little bit about it and you kind of got it together a little bit. You get better and better. You know the The more you do it, the better you get at to practice that particular technique. And just like in that those techniques and practices, you fall off sometimes as with they, because they're human, they're human. You know, they're infallible human beings. You know, there weren't the history books in the superhero apart. No, they were regular human beings, man, they, they cry, they laugh, they get upset, sometimes they curse.

Host 1:20:34

And what values or ethics did you feel were was instilled in you through association with them?

Leon Kennedy 1:20:41

With them, I got this common thread from all of them. God, Jesus Christ, that thread right there, that commonality, those principles that come along with attach with those deities. All of those principles that come attached with those trust principles are in mostly every religion. But those principles, be kind, be honest, don't lie, treat people the way you want to be treated. Help somebody, make sacrifices, have integrity, all of those core principles and values that we learn in every family, probably in every society. Those tools, we are so much alike, there are so many common words and threads that bind us. We're not that different. We're not that different, the same principles in Myanmar, that you they raised their children all of the same principles that they raised them in, in America, in New York, or whatever. Now whether or not we choose to adhere to those practices, then that's a different ballgame. So that's a whole different podcast, right? But I just am so glad that people like yourself, have the wherewithal to have platforms, wherein these conversations can be held because you're not healed. And everything is about sensationalism and, and drama and pain. These are the principles in the foundations that my grandparents stood for. They wanted to help people, they wanted to help their community. My grandfather here in Birmingham, who founded Lawson State, he wanted to help the black community. This is back in the 60s, the 50s you know where you it was unheard of, to have a black president of a university. In the Bible Belt, South Alabama, the worst of the worse. My grandfather, on my mother's side joke pops, Joseph Lauer. He wanted to see black people in the community thrive, everybody wants to see their communities thrive, that that's inherent in, in us all. In mankind, whether you be Chinese, red, yellow, it doesn't matter black white, you want to see your community thrive. Because we are all one people. We all don't want to suffer. We want to thrive, we want to be able to see people heal, get medicine, you know, provide eat, have shelter, those things those commonalities, go for us all we all need food, we all need shelter those things that never change we're more alike than we are apart.

Host 1:24:11

I'm also curious looking into your passion to practice you use the conditions of your practice are quite unusual to the way many people come in come to it and being in a maximum security prison in and having being able to start your practice they're having to to go through the experience of much suffering as as we all do on courses, but you know, it's definitely the the situation and conditions are different for you. But then you also come as you say you're a child, a literal child of the civil rights movement. You these are values and ethics you're raised with and you're you're these great leaders and activists are your aunts and uncles that you're you're learning from at their feet. And so you have Have, I'm sure just an acute understanding of, of course of racism being an African American in the US, but then not just the experience of racism, but also of the dynamics and conversations among these leaders of how they're, they're trying to promote greater equality and greater opportunity. And so all of these things are ringing in your mind. And as you go into your passion, of course, and as you start to become a serious student of meditation, I'm wondering if this meditation practice started, gave you insights? Or had you look at the experience or the existence of racism in a different way that the intensive meditation courses gave to you or reframe the civil rights movement or offer other insights about it that maybe weren't apparent, because I think all of us, whatever we, whoever we are, whatever we come in with, intensive meditation can, can often reframe, or give additional insights into into our beliefs and our experiences and our past that just kind of shine a different light or make things clearer in a way that's unexpected. So I'm wondering if your experience of race or your experience of, of meditation, had you look at civil rights and racism in America in a way that was different before you you entered into those courses?

Leon Kennedy 1:26:25

Yes, he did. Great question. Meditation made me focus on and reflect on when you know, when you sit on that mat, is just you in there. And when you will go inside of yourself, and you, you know, you try to watch the thoughts as they pass and not attach yourself to them. But sometimes it works more than that than others. However, when I would think about my forefathers, and what they had to go through, I didn't look at the map made me look at them a little bit different. Because, you know, you had to hide. They couldn't, you know, the meeting wouldn't be the same meeting that the public was See, they had to hide because they were trying to kill them. They were shooting at my grandmother, my grandmother would go to New York and be driving down in through Manhattan. The kk k snipe data. You know, they were they were shooting at them, trying to kill them, and they had law enforcement, etc. backing them up. So when you try to be an activist, it's not the same as you try to be an activist now. Yeah, yeah. You know, they, they, they can kind of remove you, but not like being so yeah. It made me respect them more, because their lives were in imminent danger. They were imminent danger, they will stand up. I've looked at some pictures the other day that I have with my grandfather and one of my aunts at a picket line, the the thing you see on Oh, documentaries, with the people in their face, screaming at them, calling them nigga. Get out of here. You got to this amount of time to be out of my town. I don't care. I'm going to bomb you in but I went to you heard about the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing. The church, it's that church shares a parking lot with another church called St. Paul, United Methodist Church. My grandfather used to pass it at Church in Birmingham. There were bomb threats at that church before the 16 three bombing. So they, they had to be activists, almost in a low key level. Yeah. You know, they were they made me respect their bravery. Because they were imminent danger of losing life. Yeah, being tortured and being tortured at home, and just shot or whatever. But, and those things still happen today. But they were it was a free for all back then. Yeah. And they were very courageous. And he made me when I be on that mat. And I'd be reflecting about my experiences because I had some experiences too when I went to high school to this brand new high school out in the suburbs, way out. It's all white school. I went through it as well, but so I understood what my grandparents went through. But I couldn't make a comparison or liken it to a DD because they were they were in danger of losing their lives. They put their zone alive. Yes.

Host 1:29:49

And they didn't know how things would turn out. Of course, the privilege of living in the modern day is you know how history turns out but you know, there was no guarantee that anything they did was going to be successful as a movement and that they were not going to be in great personal danger because of it. So it must really be something to step back. And to think of that, despite all the imperfections and bias and discrimination still exists in the world and in the US today, that this country has changed to some degree from that time. And the credit for that change can go at least partly to your grandparents, and those aunts and uncles that you are hanging around that and their their work and their bravery was what led to a societal change, that must be quite a thing to hold in the mind. That

Leon Kennedy 1:30:45

is quite a thing. And how then am I, my grandfather used to say this, this was he used to say, way back in the 80s. If nothing changes, then nothing changes. So much has changed, yet nothing has changed. Today, in today's time, I look at it. So much has changed. But nothing has changed. They're still killing each other killing them in the streets. They're still the government's in police brutality, cetera. All of those things are still persistent voting rights act as they are in question. And to your point, at a on a whole different scale. Suffering is suffering to people in Miramar, they're going through the same thing. Well, what are you supposed to do you pull to stop fighting, you have to stop pushing for people to not be with what everything in your humanity is fighting to be and do and live for you. The same thing you said, you got to keep going with it. Whether it be to hold on to your faith, your religious practice the breath, something in mankind keeps him pushing for your higher power, ah, something in us that that's the good stuff. So the same things that my grandparents and my forefathers were doing. There are people in Myanmar going through the same exact thing, history repeats itself. Yeah, went through the same thing, if not worse, yeah. They're going through the exact same thing.

Host 1:32:24

Yeah, and so in looking at your meditation practice, now, I'm also wondering how your meditation practice has informed two different things in your life, one of them being activism, and the other one being music, music, creativity. These are these are things that have been in your blood since you've been young, the activism in the civil rights movement, and the the, the interest in all music except for country. And, and so, so as so you were into these things long before you'd ever heard of a bastion or thought of Buddhist meditation. And then you took an intensive course and it's become a big part of your life. And so in what ways has your practice and formed on one hand your, your activism, and then on the other hand, you're looking at creativity and music,

Leon Kennedy 1:33:14

I learned how to focus on in breath. And that gives you that late, I used to liken it to this, when I would do Vipassana. For those of you didn't know about the partner, in my mind, I would frame it up as when you actually be doing Vipassana, I would call my mind and be like a laser beam focus, because we have to focus on the breath on that one piece of you. And so I will use that right there, when I would need to really concentrate, or gather myself and focus, whether it be music, or whatever, I will use that as a pillar. Even if I was going to pray, if I really wanted to, you know, get close to God and, and focus on what I was my prayers and just being one with Him, our I would incorporate that. So that could be one sock could be whole because it's of me is not outside of me. It's not something external is of me as the breath and I will use that to hone in my laser beam so to speak, in my focus group to focus on what I'm trying to do, and it helps it helps to train my mind to where as I can. It didn't take a long time for me to and I don't practice anywhere nowhere near like I used to practice. I don't I just do it when it's when it's you know, I'm in a in a jam, so to speak, you know, I mean, just being honest. But when I do use and I need to get there fast, I know exactly what to do. It helps me get right in line, and it's not Almost like you train, you train, you've trained yourself and your brain remembers. I remember

Host 1:35:09

right, sometimes that background of practice can come in unexpected ways. And those moments of trauma, give you some background, to rely on.

Leon Kennedy 1:35:20

give you clarity when you need when clarity is needed, if you can remember, you know, because oftentimes we creatures of habit, when we get into jams, situation, it's almost like a reflex. But if you can take time to reflect on what your training was, and the principles of it, you will come out better with it. And I got a question for you. Yeah, same, same question. How often? How often does your practice? Or do you incorporate it in what you do now, as you move forward? In your advocacy? In your, your, in your championing of human rights? How often do you rely on your training?

Host 1:36:04

I have to think of how to how to answer that, you know, for one, I have to say that I'm I'm in a place of safety, I'm not at risk, as so many of my friends are in Myanmar. And so I recognize a certain privilege in that. However, the first year after the coup, in 2021, I had, it was an experience unlike any I've ever lived through or known anyone who had where I had quite a bit of, I guess you can call it secondhand trauma where where I, I was not physically at risk, but my mind and my energy was so much in Myanmar and and the pain that was happening there both on a societal level, as well as with my friends, that it was hard for me to live here. And it took some time to incorporate that it was hard for me to talk to a friend about a TV show, he had just binged or a family member about some mundane concern. Because living in these two worlds in you know, loved ones and friends over here that were having their own concerns in their life that were valid. And, you know, you you don't want to turn that off and just say, Well, I can't listen to this, or I can't be involved in this because people are being abducted and raped and killed and tortured. And, you know, that's, that's no way to carry on relationships here. And so it, it was a challenge for me to incorporate the, the real danger and the the horror that was going on there and wanting to play a role in not just in advocacy, and not just in being a friend on phone calls. But also in some of the humanitarian missions that we were supporting, and sometimes getting calls in the middle of the night about, you know, people that were literally on the run needed a safe house or that vulnerable populations that we're we're needed to aid immediately for survival. And to, to be focusing the mind and the mental energies and the conversations on these issues. And then go to Walmart, you know, and being being an aisle choosing, you know, what kind of coffee you want to buy and then making conversation with the cashier. It was just, it was absolutely bizarre, you know, to and there were some breakdowns, you know, I've talked about them on on some parts of this on previous episodes, but probably the biggest breakdown I had was, which and I get emotional even recalling this because it was such a such a traumatic moment really was I was I was taking a walk, I was taking a walk to relax the stress and to be able to be with my sensations really, and my breath and and as I this was the several months after the coup and as I passed a house in the neighborhood, there was a boy a teenage boy stepping out of the house and he was wearing all black and he had a big backpack and he had a I think a bat, a baseball bat and kind of hanging off the backpack and he I think what he was doing was just going on an adventure like boys go on and just kind of you know, having whatever toys or or play things he had to. I used to do that when I was a kid had just have this adventure outside. But this is a time in Myanmar when teenage boys were among many other people. Were were going out in the street to do nonviolent protests against the military takeover. And that a lot of them were being shot to kill the rested abducted these other things and some of the the humanitarian support that we were providing was to those both protective gear for those that were when they were doing the nonviolent protests they had to stop because the military became too brutal just killing people on the street and and also providing medical relief for those that were that were impacted. And so I very much had in mind, I had in my mind the young Burmese boys and girls that were wearing whatever they could for protection even though it was absurd they, you know, you just look around your house, what are you even here in America, what are you possibly going to going to cover your body and your your head that is going to stop a bullet, you know, nothing really. Except, except if you you know, have a bulletproof vest or something, how many people have that line around. And so I was seeing these kind of, you know, pathetic and tragic examples of, of young people trying to wear whatever they could to stop, you know, to protect themselves knowing that it wasn't protection. And when I saw this boy walk out of the house here in America, I didn't know where I was, you know, I was really confused. I had this kind of break and I, I, I was this, this, this Myanmar reality imposed itself. And, and this memory of the boys who walk out of their house to protest military oppression and never come back the stories, stories that we had, we had been covering, and we had been sharing, and I'm seeing a boy walk out of his house wearing this gear and thinking that not rationally, but just just some deep psychological thing, just feeling while he's walking out, and he might never come back. And and I actually I just broke down crying right in the street, I just broke down crying. And, and I had to, like, remind myself where I was and what I was seeing, because it was just the the trauma from over there had imposed itself here. And that happened other cases as well, this this was the most profound time. And, and I think, this is a long way of getting to your question, but I think where the meditation came in, it came in a number of ways. I think one way was that when I when I would face trauma, and when I would face like in that and that sense, and, and just a really raw emotional pain.

The experience of a Nietzsche really comes with me of, of impermanence, and being able to be within my body and my mind and, and accept and absorb what I'm feeling, knowing that's going to change and not looking for to change, but being able to own how I feel at that moment. And, and live with it and stay with it, knowing that it's going to that, that this is not something I need to push away or be afraid of this is how I feel at the time. But I think another way that meditation really helped me and this is something where I, in talking with other people I'm involved with, I think it's a skill I've been fortunate to develop and to have in the way I approach things is that, you know, there's no real blueprint that I know of where a professional military overtakes the country. And then you have these, these normal people turned activist turn, fundraisers, whatever, whatever I am, whatever these other people are, that suddenly are trying to respond to this brutal professional military takeover. And, and it's, it's pretty baffling, it's a pretty weird and baffling thing to have to go through. After the first, you know, when when, when you first start to transition and realize that, you know, ask yourself, am I going to do something? Can I do something and kind of say, Yeah, I'm going to, let's see what I can do. And I think where meditation came in, to play a helpful role is in seeing that I had limited energy, I had limited resources, how I spend that energy and resources is, is a question I have to think about all the time because of that limit on them. And so I can only really expend energy, your thought or emotion or other things in those situations where I have control and where I don't have control of the outcome. It doesn't do me any good to get my emotions uptight. And I've had so many conversations with other activists where they've been so upset and so emotional about certain points where I for whatever reason, whatever those points are, there's no we we have no game I have no I have no play in that game. And and if it comes to me, if it comes to my desk, if if there's if there's some kind of fundraising or advocacy or something behind the scenes or conversations if there's any way that I'm involved I'm going to be fully invested and then I'll probably will have some anxiety and you know, thoughts rolling that I'll then have to use a different kind of meditative skill to be able to work with but when it doesn't come to me, no matter how bad it is, no matter how hopeless it feels like I've seen so many of my my friends and colleagues really suffer under that way and kind of be confused why I'm not why I'm not feeling that depressed with them. And it's just for me, it's like, well, I, I can't do anything about it why, and this is something I've learned from meditation. This is 100%, what I've learned from meditation, and it probably took me 10,000 times of observing the mind to learn it probably 10,000 or 100,000 times, I observed the mind getting lost in an emotion, which it had no control over. And then the outcome was something that had nothing to do with all this time I had wasted in this kind of emotional turmoil. And finally, on the, you know, the 100 and 100,000 time in one or whatever it was, I was like, Oh, I actually don't need to respond that way. I actually can sit this out, I can. This is not, this is not making a better outcome. It's not something I have any control of, I have limited emotional resources. I don't need to spend them here. And so that that was something learned was something learned from meditation. It's not naturally how I am. It's not just a strength of character that I somehow was inherent in me and not in others. That was I was a worrywart. And I'm kind of overcome by anxiety and self doubt, and all these things, probably more so than most people. But this was one particular skill where, where I learned through the wisdom of meditation very profoundly, in past years, that on the mat, I mean, let me be clear on the mat learning, you know, in all of these 10 day courses wasted, because I mean, not wasted, but feeling like, like, how much of that? Did I just spend an emotional turmoil of things I can't control? Like, why am I doing this? And then learning where I could where that kind of on off switch was to? Not entirely but you know, where some where I don't have a play in the game? Then let me sit it out. And let me rest and so And that's been something I'd say, you know, that that kind of directly answers your question of one aspect of it where when there's an issue that I really feel there's, there's no I have no bearing on this, it just does not concern me I don't think about it, I don't lose sleep over. I don't I mean, sure, on a human level, I'll feel bad about it. But it's, it's really just like, I can't spend any energy on this and where I see other activists kind of suffering under that burden. Where I put energy and where I have, you know, where I am involved. I'm not saying I'm far from perfect with it, I'll have the anxiety the burden the you know, mind rolling and everything else but but I'm, I'm, I'm able to delineate and separate you know, where, where something where I can't control something and just however hopeless, hopeless. It is. It's like, well, if it comes to my desk, I'll do comes in front of me, I'll do everything I can, I'll try to bring it on my desk, I'll try to talk to the right people. But if that if that doesn't come and if there's simply nothing I can do then it's just it's a lesson from from on the mat. I'm just, I'm, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna unwisely spend my time and resources and emotion and then not have not have left over for the things I actually can do. So yeah, yeah.

Leon Kennedy 1:47:57

And they sense that is Bri in that didn't change changes, nothing changes, and you can only change what you can change. I love that. I love that, that I think that we're on to something. I think that we're on to something because this is this has been good for me personally, because the struggle continues on. And I dig it when you say I get it when you say like knowing the struggles and stuff that you've seen across the seas, and inheritances with this menial. mean these things that we see over here. I don't I don't deal with a lot of people because it's amazing to me. The amount of people in prison in Alabama it's no other prison system like in Alabama. In Alabama, there's suffering so hard. And it's amazing to me, the amount of people is most of the black people in prison, Alabama. And most of the people that are helping and advocating either the families of the guys in prison, the women women and or white people, white attorneys, where are the black people? Because they have most of us most of the black men in prison. So where are the black boys? Where you know, and maybe this is somebody that supervised stuff in my blood, but I don't mind calling it out. I don't kind of look I'm not scared. My mommy's telling me I don't think you got sis enough to be scared. But where all the black attorneys Well, where are where are they? These are these are some of your quote unquote, homeboys. They're either your cousins or whatever. Where are the black men advocating for these guys in prison? These guys are dying and So when I don't deal with a lot of guys out here, with the superficial things, when I, when I've seen in real time how men have done it, I've seen guys just fall over dead on the toilet next to me just for being imprisoned so long and just got high blood pressure, just that right there like that. So I've seen it. So I understand what you say where you say, you've seen these kids in his suffering. And, and so to some menial stuff over here didn't really mean jack to is like what? No. But I guess it goes back to what I was saying initially, we all have different vessels of suffering. And whether you whether you call it a value system, we all have different measures, we all have different vessels. And, and can store so much or interpreted as such. And maybe everybody is just unless you've been through something, you're not gonna know how the next man feels. And those are the core values that I think that I've learned going up until you walked into other man's shoes. You don't know what it feels like. But once you do that, or we've seen and been there, or you know, and you got to look at it constantly, completely different. Maybe Maybe society hasn't suffered enough as a whole, even though the earth is dying, and maybe they haven't suffered enough as a whole, just want to help each other to fix it. You know? Maybe, I mean? Like, like with the Myanmar thing, nobody's talking about it. You don't hear it on the radio. You don't you don't hear in the media is blacking it completely out. Yeah. So until it touches home. That's when people start waking up. But by that time, you've you've watched so much suffering, so many people have died and suffered needlessly, ah, the world is a is a the world is a terrible place right now. You know, there are bright spots here in there. But, and again, I know, I know, I might sound a little cheesy for saying this. But platforms such as this, such as our friend Jonathan, such as the partner such as, or whatever faith you believe in, it's making you hold on and fight and hold on to values, your core value system, integrity, those principles, maybe it is maybe there is a chance, maybe life will find a way. Maybe, maybe we missed something? Well, no. And

Host 1:52:41

I think that's you mentioned something just now that's another real core value of, of not just my meditation, but also professional life. And that's the sense that you how hard it is to understand another human and how much respect you need to have for different conditionings different makeup. And the other shoes that someone else has someone else wears, that's something I've gained from meditation, it's something I've gained from my professional work and training and education. And learning theory is how different we all are. And that's also something that didn't come naturally to me at all, I was on the far end of the other spectrum of thinking that if I learned something, I just need to explain it to someone else. And they should be able to have the same insight I have, which could not be more wrong and more kind of embarrassed and recounting that but that's also something that I really, you know, that's what this platform is all built on. This this podcast platform of being able of wanting to be curious and welcoming. Many different diverse viewpoints, informed viewpoints that can can engage and can inform and can learn. I think when when we talk everyone wins when we listen, everyone wins. But then also in Myanmar, you know, it was a, when the coup happened, you're looking at a complete breakdown of rule of law, the everything from the courts, to the police and military, to journalism to elected government everything you can think of a complete breakdown and all of a sudden you have the police and the military. Rather than being charged with doing anything to protect the populace. They are the ones who are set to terrorize them. They are the ones that are coming to burn down your villages to poison your water to abduct you for no reason to loot and to steal your your belongings to bomb you from the sky, etc, etc. And so, you know, I don't want to say there's no blueprint for this in history because unfortunately this has happened all too often but I have never lived through something like this. I don't know anyone who has and so that was another thing I had to adjust to when this took place is just having a lot of respect and curiosity and patience. and listening for those friends who were caught in this, knowing that they were making a set of decisions for their own safety in their own life, which I could not begin to comprehend, in terms of the implications of it, if if you if you're if you're if the entire police and military force of the country is now designed to terrorize and control and oppress you, what what do you do? And where do you turn and, and that was where I became very passionate about wanting to tell their stories, and through their words, I don't want to be the ones to tell them I want I want their lived experience to be able to inform those and in that are more privileged in what they're facing and what they're going through and how they're dealing with it, and why they're dealing with it that way without judgment and being able to just understand them, as well as to provide that humanitarian support. That to those those vulnerable populations that are that have had their homes destroyed, and our you know, think there's something like 2 million people now in Myanmar that are displaced, you know, that are living before us and refugee camps and, and open nature, you know, just just running away from from this terrorizing military, and I think that's another but that's just, that was really put to the test. And the situation is that sense that you, you know, the most you can do the most I can do is be curious, and to listen and to ask questions. And to, to realize another person's situation is, is everyone else inconceivably different than mine, I could share mine, they could listen, they could someone's could share theirs, I could listen, and we could both grow tremendously from that. But my great life insights that cannot be transferred over to others. And that was, that was something that took me a lot of decades in life to to understand, right, we

Leon Kennedy 1:56:55

all different vessels of suffering, we all received the measure ment of that those that we all interpreted differently at different levels. And, like you said, until we you walk into the man shoes, and that reality, you never know, you'll be because before I ever got in trouble and went to jail or prison to prison, I would have been as just as guilty as two people, the People's ignorance right now about what's going on in it. I wish I would have known, I wouldn't have known, because it's not something that mainstream media, it's not a popular conversation. It's not a topic. It's not a hot topic. And people that Meanwhile, people are dying. They're dying. And they're people that we know, that people that we we've been around them, you know, and I hate to keep referring back to prison. But it's the same thing suffering is suffering. You when you're when you're when you're there, you in the visitation room. And it's like a cycle of a group special group cycle, that pretty much goes to visitation or at the same time, over the decades of keep going in the same room with the same people you're watching those people grow. You watching those babies grow into little girls and boys and teenagers, you're watching those parents get older and grayer. And then you watch those people die, and you're in there. So until you've experienced that. And especially this this is I'm making reference to people who get out if you've experienced all of that, and you know what's going on on the inside. And you get out and you don't reach back in and try to do something man to help that. That's, that's, that says something to me, as the you know, more dehumanizing than what they actually mean is. It's like how can you go to Myanmar and go over there and know what's going on? And not reach back? Yes, that this makes a different discounting level of humanity. So So I have a big problem with every city, every state, every so called who? Or whatever. That's in America. And you you know, what's going on in the penal system. But you not reaching me. And you it's not a conversation, but I ain't who am I to say I would have been the same person had I never got in trouble. Yeah. So like this, like that, you know, and like I said, I think we're on to something.

Host 1:59:36

I do want to ask a bit about your music as we close out because you're not just a casual musician who does fooling around with some things for fun. You've had quite a professional career. You've had associations to name a couple with ludicrous and CeeLo. And so tell us about your about what your music career and what you've gone on to Do in the industry. Well,

Leon Kennedy 2:00:01

I've I've sat down I've talked with babyface, my grandmother, Evelyn G. Lowry. She, when I got out of prison in Virginia, the first time I got in trouble and got in trouble. She set me up with babyface, he sat down, I have a, I have a huge catalogue of music like 5000 songs. Plus, did I actually, the administration in Virginia allowed me to have a liberal studio in my sale. Oh, wow. Because I was doing all this music about no jokes, save six guns, you know, and they allow me to get all this stuff. So I have a plethora of things. So my name in look, I can play, you know, I can play and I can sing. I'll do all the background vocals. I had a little studio in myself. When I came home, my grandmother was so impressed. She lined me up with all babyface. And, you know, the industry is so wicked, you know, it's such it's just a, the industry is a scam. All the other big fish eat little fish. That's the name of the game. But while I was in prison, let me say something about prison. Prison can be a university. Because you can learn a lot of stuff that the resources are there. You have to take that initiative. So I ended up learning a lot about the industry. So when I came out, and I dealt with Teddy rowdy a little bit, he's the industry. Like I said, I'm not gonna call people crooks, but the industry is full of crooks. And I own my publishing rights. I own my copyrights. So you can't, I wasn't willing to sell them for pennies on the dollar and turned them down. You know, how I was very, very, you know, I knew I was, you know, I knew I was good. And I knew they knew I was good. And I turned them down. And I did what a few people here and there. And my grandmother used to always say in my mother as well, God rest their souls. They said, Well, why did you ask do you can't believe why you would turn them down and they wouldn't understand the industry they just wanted. They were like, well, you should just do it. So that you can get your foot in the door but I was you know, younger, and I was there and I was like I'm gonna make my own way. But me well, I've gotten married so I'm not gigging and stuff so I had to get a job like a regular person because I'll work as well. Multitalented it's just not one thing I can do if necessary, and that was you know, they just have performed a lot of same same background with Earth Wind and Fire for a little while. During a concert. East air down here at performed a lot of different places that performed a different Clark Atlanta was supposed to be doing stuff they're setting up something in the future probably move this coming year with Cee Lo and luda as well on the ticket, I'm open up for him. I've opened up for Andy stone. And the songs that I am older my songs are original songs and the songs in particular that I've been doing songs about my grandmother, elbow and G. Larry, you know, my grandmother brought Joseph Lowry into the civil rights movement, because her father was a civil rights activist and was several organizations back then, my my grandfather, my great grandfather, my grandmother's father, you know, he had already going on, they brought my grandfather into the civil rights movement. And he in turn, Rio de and Marvin, I mean, Martin Martin in the read the rest but I am planning on so as I get a little stronger, but there's I got some health issues going on right now. Just wanted us to produce all the time right now I'm sitting on the bed in the bedroom. I have keyboards and guitars all surrounded in the bedroom. It's like my wife, the same best friend, by the way that I used to have back then. You know, I got her into bed with me back when we were kids. We were we had we were in a bit local band back then. And she went on to produce and write and promote. And so we are we still I still do a lot of things and I'll be doing some things soon. And when I do you'll be the first person out you know, sin. Crazy. That's free airtime.

Host 2:04:55

Thank you. I appreciate that. And I've so enjoyed talking to you. Thank you so much. for opening up and being so vulnerable with your story, I think that when we open up the speakers it reaches a special place and listeners and I, even as our listeners might have gone through different experiences or perhaps especially those in Myanmar, something not so different as you keep reminding us suffering is suffering and suffering is suffering, there is a way out of suffering. And that is, that is also a lesson of this. And so I just I really thank you for taking the time to, to come on and share so openly and publicly your story.

Leon Kennedy 2:05:33

And I appreciate you as well thank you for inviting me and having me and if there's any kind of way, brother, that I can assist you or contribute to your calls your fight, because I still I feel like we fight the same fight. This is it's more than a civil rights movement is humanity movement. And I appreciate you and I consider you a friend for life.

Host 2:05:58

Thank you. Same here. Same here.

Leon Kennedy 2:06:00

Thank you so much for this life. I hope I pray you stay in touch. I got your number. I got your number. I got your number. And we stay in touch and thank you so much, and I love this platform you have if I can be of any assistance to you in the future, I will be.

Host 2:06:39

Many of you are quite familiar with our nonprofit better Burma, which was formed in the weeks following the military coup and carries out humanitarian missions around the country. But did you know that we also have a shop that carries handicrafts source from artists and communities throughout Myanmar, we take great pride in all of our products being 100% Myanmar made from the materials to the design to the workmanship from the Thanakha artfully incorporated on the dolls faces to the cats and frogs wearing scarves made of traditional lungi fabric. They all clearly show they were made in the golden land. So your gift will bring a little bit of authentic Myanmar into the home of its recipient. And even if just a little will help keep the people and culture alive in our hearts. And most importantly, your purchase will not only support the livelihood of the artisans, but also help fund our wider humanitarian and media missions. Please take a moment to visit our shop at a local crafts.com That's a loca A L Okay, a crafts C R A F T S one word.com. Of course, as is your preference. You can also consider making a donation through our normal channels. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military coup. We welcome your contribution in any form, currency or transfer method. Your donation will go on to support a wide range of humanitarian and media missions, aiding those local communities who need the most donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movement CDM families of deceased victims, internally displaced person IDP camps, food for impoverished communities, military defection campaigns, undercover journalists, refugee camps, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies and COVID Relief and more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs. You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution to a specific activity or project you would like to support, perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode. All of this humanitarian work is carried out by our nonprofit mission that are Burma. And the donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fun. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website betterburma.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause in both websites except credit card. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to these respective accounts or email us at info@betterburma.org. That's betterburma. One word, spelled b e t t e r b u r m a.org. If you'd like to give it another way, please contact us. We also invite you to check out our range of handicrafts that are sourced from vulnerable artists and communities across Myanmar, available at alokacrafts.com. Any purchase will not only support these artists and communities, but also our nonprofits wider mission. That's aloka crafts, spelled A L O K A C R A F T S One word alokacrafts.com Thank you so much for your kind consideration and support.