Transcript: Episode #168: A Candle in the Darkness
Below is the complete transcript for this podcast episode. This transcript was generated using an AI transcription service and has not undergone human review. Consequently, certain words in the text may not precisely reflect the speaker's actual words. This is especially evident in cases where speakers have pronounced accents, as AI may encounter challenges interpreting and transcribing their speech. Consequently, this transcript should not be referenced in any article or document without cross-referencing the timestamps to verify the precise words spoken by the guest.
Host 00:03
The situation currently taking place in Myanmar is abominable. There is no safety anywhere. And the world has all but turned its back on an entire people trying to claim their freedom and insist upon their human rights in the face of blatant evil and inhumanity. international media seems to have moved on to the next story scarcely reporting on this one anymore even as the horror continues. We at insight Myanmar podcast find this intolerable. And we stand behind the Burmese people in their courageous effort to live in dignity. This platform is dedicated to making sure that we keep the conversation going while ensuring these voices continue to be heard. Today's guest is one of those voices and I invite you to settle in and open up to what follows.
01:13
issue in my way that I absolutely hate this one.
Host 01:48
For this episode of insight, Myanmar podcast we're going to be speaking to a Burmese living abroad has been doing much to help some of the medical missions there. For his safety anonymity, we are just going to be referring to him as shade. So shade. Thanks so much for joining and talking about your story and some of the aid work that you're assisting in country.
Shade 02:11
Thank you. Thanks for having me here.
Host 02:15
All right. So before we get into what's been going on since the coup, and how you've been helping out with some of the underground medical network, which is quite interesting, and also quite valuable for our listeners to understand and hopefully be able to support your work, let's learn a little more about you. So as far as you're able to share given safety and anonymity concerns, whatever you need to say, in a generalized way to not be so specific. Can you share a bit about your background, where you come from and how you ended up in Australia? And when that was?
Shade 02:45
Yeah, so just to give a bit of my background, so yeah, I'm from Myanmar. Yeah, I've been living in Australia quite a while. Yeah. studied abroad. And working here. And yeah, since a coup happened, I was finding ways to help people back home, support the CDM movement, involved in various activities as well. And yeah, I just decided that, you know, I needed to do something about the coup. And this is all happening on I couldn't just stand by and watch. So I began to be involved in various activities, and then suddenly found out that some of my closest people were pretty close to me, were working with, Hey, we're doing this medical network thing back in into calling in all those regions. So they were like, do you want to help? And I'm like, sure, because I was also, I was already involved in like, various fundraising activities to help people with all sorts of like humanitarian aid. So yeah, and, and here I am, working with them. And then just pretty much is helping out with fundraising, and not just fundraising really these days is helping other logistics communications as well as talking to various organizations on their behalf. So yeah, that's pretty much a little bit of a rundown my story, you I'm sorry, I can't really share specific details on myself due to security reasons and whatnot. So
Host 04:20
yeah, totally understood. Before the coup happened, I should say you reference that when the coup took place, you realized right away, you needed to do something to help your homeland and your home community and started to try to figure out what that was. Myanmar, of course has a history of going back many decades of of really devastating policies that have impacted all sectors of the country as well as many different groups living there. Some curious in the before the coup, were you involved in any way in in any kinds of these programs and previous years? Or was this something that you were just kind of living your life and pursuing your career and when the coup happened, it suddenly awoken you this desire to want to engage in this new way? And can you talk us through that process? And you?
Shade 05:12
Yeah, um, well, to be fair, I Well, I wasn't really involved in any of the activities. When I, before the coup, I was interested in politics and stuff really is kind of I, one of my interests. So I do keep tabs of what's happening. I do like to learn about history, and then I'm going offense and whatnot, in Myanmar, and pretty much right around the world as well. And yeah, I knew that, you know, it's been always on my mind that I will do want to do something for Myanmar out to the community. But once a coup happened, I'm like, Yeah, I really have to do something right now. So you can say that it is a walk in me that, you know, this is time to get involved. So previously, I was like, you know, I was just focused on my career, I was just doing my own thing. But yeah, once the coup happened, I'm like, now this is a time for me to get more good things going. So
Host 06:11
right, that's really interesting to explore that a little more, I think in kind of what, how that woken things up, and then how you respond to it, you know, for myself, as well, when the coup first happened. And I was in America at the time, I just felt devastated. I just felt like I was this passive helpless observer of history that was taking place half a world away by a professional military, knowing how bad it was going to be and just feeling so powerless and anything that could be done. And then once the decision is then made to be engaged, at least on my end, then it's Well, well, what can I do? And however small it is, what? Who do I know what skills do I have? What ways can I be involved and be engaged. And that led on my part to realizing the power of this insight, Myanmar podcast platform, the wider outreach and events and networking we do, the better Burma nonprofit that we developed, and slowly over time, start to realize, oh, I can do this. So I can also do that. And that was the process I kind of went through in responding to the coup and then looking at where my role could be in it. So similarly, like you, you know, you you were also as you described it, kind of doing your own thing and paying attention. Politically, also, I'm sure in a more local way and how the events and Myanmar were affecting your your, your own close family and community and friends. But then after the coup, something in you must have awoken in some way to decide that you want to engage in a wider way than you had before. And then you have to figure out what do I do? How do I do it? So can you talk us through that that whole process that you went through in that period?
Shade 07:44
Yeah, um, well, I think I'll just have to bring it back. Right to actually back to 20. down seven, I'm pretty sure you're familiar with the Saffron Revolution, right? I think, for generation, like, I'm, you know, I'm in my 30s. So I didn't really when Ada was, you know, I, that was like, way before my time, to be honest. Like, we're not really aware of what my time was kind of before my time. So I didn't really witness it. But um, back in 2007, I did I saw, I saw I saw, like, you know, oh, this half a revolution witnesses. I know, that kind of has been on my mind. I know, I know, I knew that. You know, there's military, it's a brutal Statistik I would say like, you know that it's a cruel military regime. And I lived through it when I was young. So and now they're back in power again, well, technically, they didn't really let go of power really, even in the past, like, you know, five years of sunlight democratic rule. They were, they were still holding on power. They're still pulling the strings and everything. But now they're back in back on the throne. They're doing this, and they begin to plunge the country into darkness. And that's really what I saw him back on the February 1, and like, I was really devastated. And like this is this is that this is we're back to like, back to when I was young, this is going to be an age of fear. We're going to have a live in there. Just looking at it. And then suddenly, I saw all these protests back in Myanmar, like in various cities, towns, rural regions, being staged. And that gave me a bit of help, like, you know, we do stand a challenge against his military. If we are united, and if we do help each other, if we do our own part, we do have a chance to deal a blow to this military and topple at once and for all that, that's that feeling started to take place in my in my mind in my heart, like, probably around in the early days of enqueue. Really when I started seeing all The protests like, it's like, it was like a sea of people coming out waving all sorts of flags, it gives me hope. It really gave me help. And then, and the community abroad as well, we started to come together a bit and start talking to each other, Hey, what are we going to do about this? And, and then he came to me that, right? This is a time to act. This is a time that we have to act together, we have to stand together. And then we have to play our parts, we have to do whatever we can. It may be small, it may be you know, it could be very small. But just doing anything that you can to stand up against a coup, I think. Yeah, I think that's the most important thing. That's what I saw, like, whatever is however small or big the action is, as long as you're doing something, you're contributing something to this movement to this revolution, this resistance movements. I think we were on the right path. That was my feeling. And then I'm like, Yeah, I have to do something, I'll have to get involved. So yeah, I began to get involved in various activities, fundraising events, raising awareness, just talking to people really just getting connections is connecting back to even people from my past as reaching out, Hey, what are you doing? What am I doing? And you just have to talk to people. And then yeah, I ended up in this medical network that I'm doing right now. And that's kind of what, what, how was brought to this? So yeah, that's a bit of my journey, that a little bit of a awakening, if you want to call it and that happened in my heart, regarding this coup, so
Host 11:39
Oh, right. And you ended up landing on doing medical missions? How did that come about? Do you have a background in medicine? Or did you have connections that were already doing that? If I imagine also, whether or not you had any background in medicine, the what you're doing, which we'll get into in a moment, but the the process of supporting these medical missions that all have to be underground? remotely? This, this is also something quite new to have to learn and take on? And so how did you get involved with this particular task? And what were the challenges of having to learn something that was really very likely quite different from anything you've done in the past?
Shade 12:21
Yeah, um, so I don't have any really don't really have a formal or any background in medicine, really. But I did happen to know, personally, the people that who were working on this medical medical project, this narrow, narrowed healing, hence, the name is on Graham, I've always wanted to help people back into the line division, I have a personal connection back in that region. So my family background, if I could say is from that area, so I really wanted to help people back there. And even in the some of the regions, some of these remote regions, even before the coup, the medical access is a little bit poor, I would say. And with the coup, pretty much the public healthcare system has system as effectively been broken down, the military has pretty much destroyed it. And there's a lack of medical care, it's a lot of injuries, a lot of IDPs. And then I'm like, I want to do something about this. And, and just so happens that some people that I personally knew were working on ground, and they were like, Hey, we're doing this thing, and I heard you were doing some fundraising and stuff. Do you want to help? I'm like, Yeah, I'm in. So that's kind of where I got it. Of course, there's a lot of like, there's a lot of challenges. Because medicine, medical, it's it's not my field at all. So I had to learn, I really had to talk to those people. And I had to ask them, like, hey, teach me so I had to learn the whole process again, even I just got involved in I pretty much asked them to give me reading materials and teach me what is this and what is that and even they would give me like basic kind of like first aid knowledge and stuff. So that was pretty interesting. And yeah, and I also had to start learning some of the names of the medicines and like this is what we use for this and then I was happy to start connecting help that help them out with like, ordering process and stuff like that as well. So it's challenging but yeah, I actually quite enjoyed it not sure if enjoy is the right word to use here but I had to learn the ropes again, but yeah, it was a pretty steep learning process, but I got there I guess I kind of rolled with it. But yeah, like again, like I said, it's a guy thing as you know, it's a really hot zone right now. It's a lot of conflict happening. There's a lot of military can campaigns conducted by the military in Salt Lake Village is being burned down stuff. Even some of my relatives spec they have to run flee their homes. Well, this is where pretty much like the textbook example of this Burmese military's tactics or strategy, I say this is what they have been doing in a lot of these ethnic minority minority areas. And you know, our again, kitchen, Karen, Sharon, Karani, etc. They've been doing this for like, you know, ages and ages. And then yeah, we pretty much replicated the same tactics back in the what we call the dry zone of the country. So they're doing the exact same textbook tactics of the Burmese military campaigns and is waging this scorched earth war kind of thing. And it's affecting their local population. And then, like, I just can't stand by and watch. And then medical aid is probably one of the biggest things that they are needing. So yeah, I think, I think everything everything Has came together for me, and then I got involved, and here I am.
Host 16:03
Right. And yeah, the dry zone in Saigon division is have been has really been hotspot and just terrible stories of the atrocities really crimes against humanity that have been taking place in those rural villages that some of which you described a bit before. Before getting more into what you're actually doing your medical missions, just to take one more point to focus on the context and making sure listeners are set up to understanding what's going on there. I wonder if you can share a bit about from your understanding why the sky division has become such a hotspot for really the first time in? Well, I don't know how long but but but certainly in the recent past, as you said, this was the kind of thing we saw Tramadol assaults against the ethnic areas, but not so much. The the dry zone areas, the second division area, so what, what has happened during this period to make this into a hotspot. And then also if there's just any, in terms of the military tactics, what they're doing, whether it's general or anecdotal, or anything more you want to share, to really set the context for listeners that can give them a better understanding of what kind of Operations and Support you're providing in this kind of tense environment.
Shade 17:15
Yeah, so I guess, previously, I think the biggest, you know, what we call the dry zone, or really just the ethnic Pomar, when I think the last time we saw this sort of resistance against the, you know, the central government or military, or whatever you want to call it happen was probably back in like, you know, after independence, when the Communist Party of Burma actually started rising up against the central government, I think that's, that was only the time when there was a big resistance movement happening in that, you know, dry zone area. And ever since then dry zone has been relatively, you know, quiet, I wouldn't call it peaceful because, you know, there hasn't been really any sort of peace under the success of military regimes, but, and back in 1989 88, afterwards, even then, there wasn't really any sort of military resistance movement in the dry zone, there was like, you know, conflicts with in the certain Borderlands and I think areas with all the students taking up arms to fight back as he is ABSDF. But yeah, and, and really never really saw any sort of like conflict or anything until 2021. Really, ever since the time of post independence era. And I think that really came as a shock to the military as well, in many ways. I would say, they, I don't think they were sort of expecting this from the ethnic Burma to resist to put up this sort of, like fierce resistance. And I think and then that's when they started, you know, replicating this scorched earth brutal tactics that they've been using in these in the other ethnic areas. Yeah, as you can see, sky is a hot zone right now. It's, it's, the resistance is very, very fierce. They're very contentious. They're very resilient. It's been going on what it's a going and also Magwe. The dry zone area in central Burma is another really, really strong resistance area that's been resisting the Magwe. Also, even even before like, you know, the all the armed conflict happen and during the early days of the protests in places like mon yaw and around those Monywa, does there it just around those areas is like a lot of like protests even these these days, protests is still happening even despite all the conflict is happening. It's like really not really, really good, really law Just like people's movement happening there, as well. And military is, is just attempting to crush those places, and the tactics they use is pretty. It like I said, it's a textbook example of tactics. So what they've been doing is they were to target the civilian areas, they know that we know if the people are suffering, if people cannot look after their own livelihoods, if people whose homes are destroyed, they won't really have time to, you know, think about resisting the regime. That's, I think that's the textbook example that they're doing. And you know, all the resistance forces, like the people's fence forces, they, they do have to look after the people. And then if the people are suffering, they will not be able to actively resist the junta or, you know, effectively fight back. So they will target the civilians is also part of like their own little divide and rule kind of tactics as well. So they want to send this message that, hey, if you are resisting us, this is the fate that you're going to suffer. If you don't resist us, well, we will leave you alone that and that's kind of the little divide and rule. In reality, that's not really true. If you don't, even if you don't resist them, they will still, you know, burn your village. And as we've seen in several places, even people that don't really aren't really involved in resistance, or any sort of like, movement against them, they're still tortured, killed, and their homes were burned. So I think that that's a little bit of their psychological tactics as well, they're doing so well. And all this is happening, voters are burning people have lost their livelihood, and worse, killed. So in these times, I think I think this is called a four cut strategy as well as part of that. So they try to cut all the access to food, medical supplies, communication. So some of these areas, there isn't any more internet lines, like there's no 4g 3g, even not not even two units. There isn't any sort of internal lines in some of these areas anymore. And I know that inform lines aren't even available in some of the areas as well. So all communications are cut. Yeah, it's a really, really terrible situation in there. So like I said, in some of these areas, even before the times a coup, the healthcare is fairly poor, there's a there's a really, really lack of proper health care, access to proper health care in some of these areas. And now with all these cuts, that the military has done all these scorchers tactics and blocking of medical aid and supplies and everything, there is more and more is in need in dire need of medical access, not just medical really also like food, shelter, and everything in these areas for IDPs local populations, and all the people around there for the elderly, who are in need. So yeah, that's kind of the situation there. I know that a lot of there's like, really, I can't say how much there's like so many IDPs in just hiding in the jungles where they can't really go back to their homes. And even when they go back to the homes, they're all in ruins and there's nothing for them left in the village, the military will just burn everything down. So and they're living in constant fear of like, when the military is going to come back or when they're going to you know, attack them areally will there be aerial bombs? So, yeah, that's kind of the situation there. Like I said, this is a textbook example of Burmese military campaigns and Burmese military tactics one on one terror tactics to target civilian populations because they know that you know, without the people to resist them. Yeah. Because there won't be any resistance movement though with other people so they will target the civilians it's yeah it like I said it's their tactics one on one so yeah.
Host 24:13
Right so I think that sets the grounds and gives the context for where you come in so if you can describe a bit about what your teams do on the ground there and how you've supported them
Shade 24:24
Yeah, so um, I'll teams to call out the name of our team is called Healing Hands. So we're based in the going division are we previously started off a bit in Chin State as well, but really, today these days we just focus on grounding sky, namely in Taze and Migkin townships. So I grew up mainly is we were we were focused on delivering medical aid to the local populations, but we also do a few other things as well. So the main thing that we do what we saw in these areas as I like I said, there's a proper that elect elect a proper healthcare system or lead to a lack of proper, how should put it put this lack of access to medical resources I would say. And then when we saw was this, we got to do something about this. And then one of the things that we found was that even if there aren't, you know, properly trained medical professionals, like doctors and nurses, what we could do was, we could set up these basic medical healthcare training courses and first first aid causes for the local populations. And if we could do that, it would at least relieve some of the areas in those places, if there are people who can at least you know, deliver some sort of like medical aid, like very basic medical aid really is like, you know, basic sickness, our basic wounds and stuff. So it does help a lot. So when we when we decided to do was we started to put together these basic medical aid courses or first aid courses, and just delivered the those trainings to those people over there. Each of the causes combinate, up to like 30, to 40 people. So it's pretty good, we've done it up to I think, now we've just completed our fifth batch of training, which means like, we've got at least 150 graduates from these courses. So whether there's a lack of doctors, or nurses or medical personnel who are properly trained, we could at least provide some sort of relief of the pressures that these regions have having by delivering these causes to the local population. So at least, you know, they were like, Hey, if you have a fever, or some sort of basic sickness, this is what you need to do. So at least we could can impart that sort of knowledge to the locals. But of course, we also, what we also do is we do set up some rural health clinic. These are, of course, not like, you know, it's very specialized clinics, because I, again, we like medical personnel in those areas. So our team has one doctor, and there's only, I don't know, in Michigan, and as a township there, I don't think there's even like 10 Doctors probably is less than that, even in the entire Township. So get providing medical care to people. And like I said, does that mean the encounters are fairly large townships. And it's not really sufficient to cover the entire Township, but you know, very limited number of doctors really. So what we also do is set up these healthcare clinics, and we would also provide them with basic medical supplies and equipment that they need. And also to these trainees who have graduated from our causes, we also supply them with basic medical supplies, basic medical equipment, like standard scopes, PB curves, and stuff like that. So that, you know, when they go back to their, you know, home place, they can start, you know, practicing. And, of course, if there are any, like really serious illness or injury happening, they would call our doctor or our proper doctor who is around the region, so that we can refer to, you know, a better proper medical care, or if you need surgery, we also do our best to arrange that as well with our doctor in house or to refer to refer them to another doctor. So that's kind of how we've been running with. We're trying to help with improving medical aid and medical care in those areas. Of course, like, you know, we also like distribute medical medicine to APS and our local populations around there. But I think one of the things that we really need to focus on is, again, this is also thinking about long term as well as the Human Resources part of the equation there. So without probably training people, if we just keep delivering medical aid, you know, that's not really going to be sustainable. We need to train people, we need to train people to at least know what they're doing a little bit about medical knowledge. So we try to fill in the gap by running these running, running these first aid and basic medical training courses. And, of course, we do go around these IDP camps and villages affected by the conflict, to deliver medical aid and healthcare. And of course, they come it's really difficult as well, like with the conflict happening. These are really hot conflict areas. So we really have to tread carefully in where we're going and stuff like that. So security, of course, still is a ongoing issue in trying to deliver these medical aid and medical missions. And there is again, a lack of proper healthcare facilities or hospitals around there. So if there's somebody's wounded, we really have to improvise sometimes to save their lives. And unfortunately, we've seen a lot of people losing their lives in not just to injuries, like humans, you know, during childbirth, to illnesses that normally could have been cured, but didn't, we didn't have any proper access to care and just lost their lives. We've seen so much of that happened. So there's still a lot of help being needed in those areas really, not as in terms of like medical, proper medical aid, but ultimately, the human resources and other sorts of like facilities and stuff like that as well. We're trying our best to fill in the gaps, but there's still so much to be done, we're also trying to set up a little hospital somewhere around a secure area, if possible. Because especially in terms of like surgical care, it's really difficult to deliver without a proper, you know, facility to and then it's really like, I guess it's like, you probably know, it's really difficult to refer them to like big hospitals in big cities due to security reasons, obviously, so. So yeah, that's kind of the a little bit of an overview of what we've been doing and what we do around those areas, but also not in terms of not just in terms of medical, but we also wherever possible, we also provide food, shelter, clothing, that's not really our focus, but we do our best to do that as well, wherever as possible. And also going forward, we do have plans to help in the education sector as well, because there's a lot of children who are fleeing from war, and then we just don't want their education to stop. So we are going to try our best to expand into that sector as well. So yeah, that's a bit of an overview or a general overview of the work that we're doing in Sagaing. Region.
Host 32:01
Yeah, thanks for that. And I want to go back to something you kind of talked around and touched upon just the the risk factor the danger, that that is posed by the medical profession. This would include patients, doctors, training courses, mobile clinics, hospitals, just anything associate or even procuring supplies, bringing buying a large amount of supplies and transporting them somewhere. These have all become security risks. You know, it's really atrocious to have to say that someone who's in the business of administering health care is any part of that process is actually not safe and having to take safety precautions, but that is the truth and Myanmar now. So can you expand on that a bit and just describe the what kinds of risks and dangers people on the ground supporting this mission? Whatever side of the activity, they're on? What, what what risks and dangers they're facing merely by being in the field of healthcare these days?
Shade 33:04
Yeah, um, I think it goes back to the early days of the coup, really, I think, because doctors were one of the very first professionals to stand up against the military regime, with the CDM movement. So I think, not just doctors, really, it's also doctors, nurses, medical and other medical profession professionals. This dental dentists, medical technologists, other people, they were among the first professionals who actually others did as well. But they were they were really iconic, I would say, quite pretty, pretty iconic, that they started speaking out against a coup they started. They started, they were one of the pioneers of the civil disobedience movement. So I think the military hasn't forgotten that as well. And I guess, like you said, it's really sad to just think of people, the people who are saving lives are also being endangered by the military. It's, it's a very, very sad situation as well. Like, I know that even in some places, you can't even they won't even allow you to take paracetamol because that actually relieves pain. So they would confiscate paracetamol, if they see it. That actually happened in some areas. And that's horrifying, really. And there's a lot of risk in transporting medicine as well. If they see they will confiscate these large amount of medicines being transported. And they won't just confess the gate, the medical supplies, they will also of course, harm people who whoever sent it or where it was receiving it. So there's also risk in that. And also, these rural clinics that we've opened, they are also in danger of being destroyed. And, and people who are operating, they're being harmed if they if we do practice them openly. So we do have to do it a bit of a bit like an underground sort of movement, even in those areas. I know some of the areas are secure, but some Not really. So to even to effectively deliver medical aid, we have to make sure they're not around. So because if you do be it would block any sort of medical aid or delivery of any sort of healthcare really in those areas. They weren't, they weren't people blocking or cutting access to all sorts of medical supplies and medical aid being delivered to this region. So they've been cracking down on all these medical, well, all these pharmacies, they've been cracking down on doctors, CDM doctors, nurses, and dentists just really just cracking down on them just arresting them. I saw a news recently that some CDM doctors being arrested in I think it wasn't Mandalay, I believe. And they were also working to deliver medical aid to I'm not sure where they were. But apparently, they were involved in delivering medical aid to some of the Catholic areas. And sadly, one of the CDM nurses where she was murdered during the interrogation process, apparently, so that was really sad. Just so just something of that, like people who are trying to save lives, and in their lives are also being endangered just by doing their jobs. So yeah, I'm in for our network as well, we have to work really, really, we have to lay low and work, work behind the scenes, or we have to work very, very secretly, in those areas to deliver medical aid. Of course, some of the areas are pretty okay, especially in the areas that are controlled by the resistance, or nobody has a heavy resistance presence. It's, it's quite safe, but venturing forth. There are certainly conflict areas, and we have to cross over. And in those areas. Now, it's not really safe. Now, we really have to be very careful in planning our routes around those areas, we really risk we were the people on the ground, risked their lives just to deliver this sort of medical aid to the people in need. And then yeah, like you said, it's very sad, but it's really just a reality. But and then we have to something that we have to deal with, unfortunately, so. So yeah.
Host 37:52
That's also reminding me of the really unfortunate kind of responses we've seen over the past couple of months. And even a couple of years of some Westerners and organizations and governments who have not really understood I don't know how they can't get, you know, you can really find this news anywhere. But somehow they haven't understood that or accepted the fact that this military has no interest in carrying out any kind of humanitarian aid even apart from what they're trying to rule. And there's been this ongoing question for the humanitarian organizations, big or small, that are trying to come in and make a difference in Myanmar, should they bring the military to the negotiating table? Should they try to go through the military should they should they by all means try to avoid the military and go through informal networks, which there's a concern that that however, one feels about military being in charge and their legitimacy, leaving that aside? That they they are ruling some central parts of the country. And so this for organizations where where these questions of rule of law and protocol and everything comes into play, that they're, they're there, by supporting these informal networks and avoiding the military, there's a concern that they could be, they could be seen to be going explicitly against the whoever is in charge, which is something that these big organizations and governments don't like to do. So it's been this really messy situation of trying to figure out how do we get aid in there? Do we, knowing the risks associated, the consequences associated with all parts of it, and going through these small informal networks that are are very much under the radar of the military and the military would claim as illegal even though we would claim the military itself as illegal? So and then, but then the converse of that of looking at going through the military were people such as you and I, and I think many associated with this movement would just have very little faith that the military would actually do anything with what is given so I wonder if you just that kind of debate and controversy that's been going on as someone who's really active in this field of aid giving and medical What are your thoughts on the best way For, for for smaller organizations such as yourselves and even larger ones to look at engaging and trying to get aid in there effectively.
Shade 40:09
All though, probably the, with 100% confidence, I can definitely say that if you if you know, these international actors tried to deliver aid to the military, it's definitely not going to get to where it's needed. I'm going to say that 100% That's, that's the truth, that's a reality, they have to face it. But that's not something that they can dance around. That's, that's the reality, if they try to deliver medical aid through the military or its organs, that's not going to arrive in the hands of the people. If they try to give money, if they give aid money via the military, that's that they're going to use it to buy weapons. That's, that's the reality. And that's, that's what they have to face if they try if they're trying to deliver any sort of aid to the military and think that's going to be effective, they're deluded. And it's gonna say, All right, that's what it is. That's a reality. So we've seen it all we've seen it happen, we've seen it in I don't know if you know about the Cyclone Nargis, that happened back in, I believe, but to 2828, sorry,
Host 41:15
I was there for that.
Shade 41:17
So back there, back then, a lot of organizations, you know, came to try to deliver aid and never really got anywhere that you know, even like these are, what are they like, some sort of power bars or energy biscuits and stuff, they ended up being rations for the military. So that happened before. And if people think these international actors think that, you know, they can effectively deliver aid through the military, or any sort of the network, they've had the same lesson learned previously, if they're trying to do this, the same thing again. The second time, I think they're quite deluded, to be honest, and it's going to have to, I'm not going to be I'm going to be very blunt, this time. The best way probably is to if they can just engage local actors or local humanitarian organizations or even through other, you know, set its own networks that, you know, probably national, unique governments, energies, humanitarian, or, you know, any sort of programs that they're doing, or any sort of like, ethnic authorities, probably as well in certain ethnic areas, they have their own authorities, who can probably better deliver aid, or even so even certain local organizations or age groups, like ourselves, or certain certain organizations and certain authorities, people, some of the places people have set up their own little self governing, I would say, sort of authorities, they've started to do their own little things as well, because pretty much like the military's administrative organ has pretty much broken down to they've organized themselves into this self administrative authorities kind of things. So I think what if the international community wants to help in terms of humanitarian aid, they really have to, three reach out to people on ground, they really have to reach out to these local authorities who are not affiliated to the military regime, or through various other channels. That's the only way that they can get aid to where it's actually needed. If they're going to try to engage the military regime, by any sort. I saw on news like, you know, certain, even United Nations agencies, talking with a regime saying that, Oh, yeah, we're doing this thing. And I know, we have to engage the regime to work effectively on ground. But the question is, can you work effectively on ground? No? What What would what's what will be the outcome of just talking to military, one oil? Do you just give them more legitimacy, that's definitely for sure. To whatever aid you're going to channel through the military, that's not going to end up in the hands of the people that's going to just kind of end up in the hands of the military, the medical supply, if they're going to give medical supplies hand over the medical supply, the military things is going to use it for their own soldiers, and they're going to give aid money to the military, that you're going to use it to buy weapons. Unfortunately, that's the reality. So the best way for them to do is to do the hard work, reach out to people on ground, talk to people who can actually deliver aid instead of engaging whoever that's sitting in maybe Utah right now. So I think that's my view on it. Yeah, I know that's been ongoing controversy excited debate happening, but Yeah, because I, like I said, the military, like I've seen, you know, there's a lot of talk about, hey, we have to engage the military, we have to talk with them, we have to negotiate with them, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, we have to see this clearly the military is the problem. It is the root of all problems in Myanmar, it is the root of all evil in Burma, really? So can you have the root of all problems? Can you have the problem as part of the solution? Now, you can't, if you, you have to remove the problem to solve this. So you can't have the problem as part of the solution. The international community needs to see see that you cannot engage or negotiate the military junta. I think the people I like I think the international community really, really needs to understand that I would say, because, yeah, it's it's because negotiating or talking to the junta is not going to work. Yeah, I think I think that's the reality. And then international community needs to understand that.
Host 46:20
Right, I totally agree with you. And another thing that stands out from those conversations I hear that sometimes just just baffles me. And I hope that Conversations like this have had on a public platform can can reach these people and reach these dialogues, I do know that we do get feedback that there are people in embassies in governments in think tanks and other organizations, big organizations that tune into this podcast. And listen, we very much hope that these kinds of conversations can affect and inform these bigger initiatives that some of the decision makers and decision and stakeholders that are that are tuning in can listen and get this information. But one of the things that I find is that, that I'll hear from from big partners or stakeholders or governments is that they simply don't know the mechanisms of how to get in. And this always baffles me because I think well, you know, healing hands has their networks to get in better Burma has their networks to get in. There are many other organizations out there small organizations that are are able to with safety and with care and concern and, and referring to the local conditions, that are definitely able to be able to get funds in where they're needed to help some of these humanitarian missions. And with more funds, more help can be given. And so this is something that's always baffled me is this kind of dialogue from people saying that they're just not doing anything, because they don't know how they're just very confused by a military actor that is, is, is claiming to be in charge. And yet it's very unreliable and not knowing what are the alternatives already go around. For those people listening. There are other, there are indeed other alternatives to go around. This is not something we should be hearing any more the, for those that want to help, they should be identifying and finding these reliable smaller partners that would be able to carry this through and get it where it's needed. So I just I simply don't understand why I keep hearing that argument. Even after two years. I totally
Shade 48:15
agree. That baffles me as well, like, well, they're better connected, they have, you know, better connections, they should be able to do more. That's what, that's my general feeling as well. So,
Host 48:28
yeah. So moving on. Another thing I wanted to touch upon is, you've started your talk, you reference how you're a Burmese living in Australia, you've been there for some time. And so basically, you're, you're a member of the diaspora, helping those people that are in country. This is an interesting relationship that I think has not really been examined or talked about enough. And so something I'm, that's been more on my mind and consciousness to want to be able to explore it and check in understand it. So from your standpoint, where you are in the diaspora helping those in country, how would you describe this relationship? And how would you describe kind of the responsibilities of both parties and especially being a member of the Diaspora speaking for yourself? How do you take it upon yourself to see like, what you can be doing what you should be doing, perhaps what you should not be doing? Where you can be helping or advising, but where then you have to stand back and defer and listen, like how do you how do you define those the nature of this kind of relationship and respective responsibilities?
Shade 49:32
Right. So obviously, it hasn't been easy since day one of the coup, just being away from home, and is really slowly seeing my homeland being torn apart, really. And again, all things that happened and this is this, this isn't something that you know, this isn't something that I've done at all. It isn't really even my profession as an medicine isn't even my profession. So like I said, I had to learn a lot along the ropes again and stuff. And then I think I just took it upon myself really, I just, like I said a bit earlier, in the early days of the queue. And as things progress, I'm like, I needed to do something I just can't stand by, I have to do something no matter what, no matter how small the action is, I have to do something that has always been on my mind. So I want to get involved, I want to help people, I just can't stand by and watch. Even, I'm here, I probably could just sit back and just pretend nothing's happening. But I can't do that. I can't just go to sleep like that, you know, if I see even, it's always on my mind, I get it. Even if I do, I'm doing something else is this to this, you know, people suffering back home, that's always on my mind. I can't get it off my mind. It's just been happening from day one of the coup. So I'm not saying everyone should be, you know, getting involved and doing all this thing. It's great if everyone can do that. But everyone, different different people have different sort of views, different sort of capacities that they can do. Some people will actively contribute funds, they will help people like they will, they're very passionate in raising funds and donating funds to people who are needed. Some people really are like, you know, go down the activist route like they would be would be happy more than happy to be the public face, they would speak out, raise awareness, talk to various international actors. Being the voice for the people who are back home can't really voice out. And some people will help more a bit more in depth getting involved in the sort of like underground humanitarian aid or other sorts of movements as to help you helping others out talking to people connecting with people. So at least the way I see it, at least this is really written as more of a personal sort of opinion for me, I guess. So. I'm abroad. I've been here for a while. But looking back, it's my homeland. That's where I grew up in. I want to see it at least peaceful, being free from the shadow of tyranny and oppression, at least. I want to see it that way. I want to see it prosper. I want to see it become a proper, you know, peaceful place fun for all the ethnicities, and everyone that's living in there. So at least I just saw myself like, you know, I need to do something. I want to get involved. I wasn't just content in raising funds. I want to get more involved when we get deeply involved, and delivering aid. What can I do more hours ask myself, what can I do more? I think that's the question that I keep asking myself. Yeah, true. Getting involved with these things, these things. But to myself, I just keep asking, there. There are definitely things more things that I can do better, or there are things that I can get more involved, I can do more things. So again, I have my day job doing here. So kind of doing two things, or more at once. But I try, because then again, like I said, my day job my day job, but really, they're more important things than Korea for me. So which is, you know, things are happening back home, I just can't stand my watch. So, as part of the diaspora, at least to me, I would say it's more of a commitment to this cause I think that's the most important thing. It's a commitment to at least see my homeland being free of tyranny and oppression and fear. I think that what really drove me to do this to what I'm doing. It's more of to me it's not about patriotism, or nationalism or anything like that. It's really just, I just want to make my homeland a better place, being free from all sorts of oppression. I think that's, that's the thing that drove me. And of course, in approaching this, the best way for me to do it is to get involved in these sort of activities, raising funds, that probably the raising funds, probably pot is the most important thing that diaspora can do. For the people back Come, because as you know, back home, there's a limit on how people can support each other people bogans support these sorts of movements. People are starving people getting into all sorts of trouble for helping them out, helping each other out. So one of the biggest things that the diaspora can do is to raise funds, and send back home help people. The other one, of course, is to raise awareness as well. Just to I know, it's very frustrating sometimes, of course, the issue of Myanmar has been, like, swept to the sidelines these days, you know, if you talk to certain people, the like, oh, Myanmar, that happened, like, in back in 2021, is, I think everything is everything peaceful right now, we don't hear on the news anymore, and stuff like that, you know, and that's like, no, it's terrible. When it's happening, it's very bad. So ongoing. That's another thing that guys can do as well. And of course, just helping people out with all sorts of like different activities. Like there are things more things that you can also do, in addition to fundraising in helping awareness like, you know, getting involved in these sorts of like movements, these sort of like humanitarian aid networks, just to connecting with locals. And like I said, there's there's a lack of internet axes, and phone lines in certain areas. If you have the capacity, you should reach out to those areas and ask them, hey, what can I do? What can I help? And also, in terms of like, you know, depending on what you do, as well, in terms of your profession, or in terms of capacities, there may be things that the Diaspora people in the diaspora maybe may be able to help instead of like technical advice, or, you know, some any sort of like, aid in, you know, developing those areas, or helping those areas in areas in need. So, I think there's a lot of things that the diaspora community can do. And then they are already doing at the moment. And but for me, personally, it's more of a question about, what can I do more? How can I get more involved? That's just the question that I just keep asking myself every day. Because at the end of the day, if I just, you know, turn back and walk away, I wouldn't be able to face myself. So yeah, that's probably the sort of my thought process that's happening. I need to see it through the end, I need to keep going see it through the end of the road, I need to see the end of the military chanter and peace being restored, I wouldn't say restored by them, because there hasn't really been any sort of peace in Myanmar era since the days of post independence. So peace being properly there is proper peace and tranquility in Myanmar. I think that's my, at least that's my sort of view. And that's my sort of, like, you know, little mental thought process that I have. So yeah.
Host 58:14
Right, thanks for that. And I think you hit upon that there's many different ways to be involved in as I always say, on this podcast, the very act of simply showing up and listening, as any listener who's gotten this far into our discussion has, has done so already, that that itself is a sign of support that is donating an hour of one's time and mental space to be able to listen and care and think about these things. And then there's steps beyond that of, you know, sharing it or advocating or reaching out to Burmese friends, of course, donating and, you know, on that donating aspect, if, if one is so moved, after hearing your story, and the kinds of medical missions you're providing, and the very unsafe situations there that one can make a donation to help that medical movement, one can certainly do through better Burma, we are a 501 C three nonprofit, the United States, and so tax exempt, so any donations that would come to us earmarked to your mission and the the medical projects that you're doing that this is a way to not just simply listen and hear which is which is which is wonderful not to undermine that at all. That's, that's really great for those people that show up. But for those that want to go the extra step of from being a passive listener to an active supporter that funds can actually be directed to the very medical trainings, medicine, medical missions, etc, that you're setting up that that can support those people and that can actually get through that does not have to go through the military apparatus that does not have to, to be compromised in these kinds of ways that can actually be put directly into the kind of medicine that is quite literally saving people's lives that are living through this terror That's certainly true of small donors giving, you know, $10 $50 $100, whatever one is able to, but if by chance, we have leaders of certain organizations that are tuning in or governments that there are networks, be they, the ones that we are talking about or be they other nonprofits and small organizations that are also doing wonderful, courageous work, there are many of these small networks that have their way to get the humanitarian supplies and missions in that are necessary, that can take these greater donations and greater overarching missions, that that that someone with someone or an organization with more capacity can be able to give. And so for anyone listening, there really is not an excuse for, if one is, is interested in helping, but there's really no excuse of why a bug can be there. Really, the question on the table is, what is one's volition What does one's means and, and really whatever one shows up for you know, I think that that that's as you I liked the point that you made earlier in this conversation that, that it's really just looking at, Remember how you said it, but it's really just, we're, who we wherever anyone is at, and whatever they have at their disposal, just really looking at whatever small things, whatever, whatever small actions matter, those those actions do add up to drips in a jar that do add up over time. And so whatever is it within one's volition and means, however small or however larger might be that those all of those things do matter and giving that momentum to this and morale as well to this wider movement and admission to want to restore democracy and human rights or bringing democracy and human rights. As you said, I don't know when Myanmar has really enjoyed that to the full level. And and I know also that these conversations, they do give a lot of hope and resilience to people listening I've heard from many listeners have written in saying that whether many, many Burmese listeners I should say whether they're in the country or diaspora and feeling some kind of heartache and hopelessness and depression, that whether we have on Burmese guests, they, they they're able to share in the sacrifice and the courage and the commitment that they have towards this democracy or whether they're foreign allies, like myself that are on and realize, you know, we're not alone, there are people that tremendously care about this country and society and are helping in their own ways. And so just hearing these conversations and knowing that people are doing what they can in their own ways that that does matter. And that does help. So that's so hopefully, this conversation has also done that to those tuning in whoever you are, whatever backgrounds you're coming from, as well as to give some food for thought of how support can be given in real tangible ways that have direct and immediate results.
Shade 1:02:51
Yep. Yeah, totally. Totally agree. Man. I totally agree. Like I said, even the smallest act of doing something matters. I think that's that's what I want to tell people as well, like whoever is the diaspora or any sort of allies or friends of Burma. So every single act that they do, or you do to help matters, yeah.
Host 1:03:17
Yeah, absolutely. So before we close anything else you'd like to add that we haven't covered.
Shade 1:03:22
So I just wanted to share a couple of like, things that are happening on the ground that we see as well, a couple of stories that we saw. So previously, when we started off, we also tried to send off medical aid to other regions as well, we've sent a to Karenni, we've tried sending aid to Chin, others places as well. And we kind of have stopped unfortunately, because of the increasing number of IDPs. And people in need in our region in the regions that we are operating in. So but then again, at the same time, because we have shifted our attention to minion and as a townships, we've been able to better help the people, like you know, these increasing number of IDPs we've done a lot of work in traveling to those camps. We've traveled to those villages, helping them not just in terms of medical aid, we've helped them rebuild their tent and their homes as well in certain places. And we've saved lives. We've assisted in childbirth and pregnancy as well in in this IDP areas. We've also helped people with, you know, injuries from you know, attacks from the military, like from the attacks from with the cannons and aerial bombardments, there are people getting injured from them, we've also helped them as well. We've we're also doing our best to set up a little sort of like hospital for the injured injury carrier as well. We have also done various amount of certain life saving surgeries in many ways that we can. We also delivering certain certain level of aid to all these IDPs are always looking at populations like just providing general health care services as well. And like I said before, it's not just in terms of medical aid that we've been doing, we've also been distributing food, and shelter wherever we can, as well. And hopefully, our aim for this year is to expand into educational sector as well. I know it's a little bit ambitious, but that's on our radar, we want to keep the education sector going. We want to keep the education for the children going people with children affected by war, they haven't really been going to school for you know, at least, now it's going to be over two years, we don't want the education to stop. And at the same time, we want them to have a better education are a better future for them as well. Like, we don't want them to go through the same sort of education back, you know, back in like 510 years, or we want this for a new generation a new, like I said, for a new better peaceful Burma, right. So it needs to be a better education for them, like a totally new sort of education, that will really, really aid them in being part of the future of the nation. So that's kind of the aim for us for this year to expand into educational sectors set up sort of like self managed schools. So I really would like to invite everyone and whoever is tuning into this podcast to help us out in achieving our goals. So are moto as healing Hans's journey to the wounded. So we really, that that is our mission really to work in these conflict areas, and to deliver aid, medical care, and beyond medical care to actual areas in need actual areas, like actual conflict areas, we want to be there, we want to go there. And I know, my friends, my comrades on ground are risking their lives every day to deliver these sort of aid to people who are in need. So at the same time, we're facing a lot of difficulties, in terms of procuring medical supplies, partly due to our third part of inflation, and really, really hard. You know, it's really difficult to get medical supplies these days, sometimes because of you know, all the because there's a there's like a limited stock in flowing into the country as well. And prices have risen up. So it's like, the stuff that you can get for say, you know, 500,000 jobs back in 2021. And stuff that you can get for 500,000, just in 23 is vastly different. So there's a lot of costs regarding that as well. And in terms of these healthcare, and firstly, trainings as well, we intend to give several more trainings like that, to keep expanding the network and then to keep teaching people the basic sort of medical supplies, but at least, there is some sort of basic health care access to basic health care in these conflict areas. And these ABB cams and our local villages, where healthcare to access to health care is pretty poor. So yeah, there's a lot of things that we are planning, and we're planning to do and we're going to keep on doing so I really would appreciate any sort of help. Like I said, no matter how small the acts, of helping or act of standing up against a military regime, no matter how small the act of resisting the oppression, and just being the you know, there is a lot of that this is like, you know, a fast amount of darkness. And if you can just be a candle in the darkness. And then, if we all come together, if we've all become those little pieces or little parts of the light. And soon if we come together and if we illuminate this, you know, darkness away, this evil, this oppression will finally be dispelled from Myanmar. No matter how small your act of resisting this tyranny is, it matters. And this is a cause that we believe in. And then this is a cause that we must believe in and we must carry on we must keep in our hearts, and keep in our minds that one day, one day, this military regime will fall and proper peace tomorrow. proceed, and a better Myanmar that's a Burma will rise in the future. So just this is my parting message. Thank you.
Host 1:10:17
For whatever reason, even as the conflict in Myanmar continues to worsen, it somehow continues to be shut out of the Western media news cycle. And even when the foreign media does report on the conflict, it's often presented as a reductionist, simplistic caricature that inhibits a more thorough understanding of the situation. In contrast, our podcast platform endeavors to portray a much more authentic, detailed and dynamic reality of the country and its people, one that nurtures deeper understanding and nuanced appreciation. Not only do we ensure that a broad cross section of ideas and perspectives from Burmese guests regularly appear on our platform, but we also try to bring in foreign experts, scholars and allies who can share from their experience as well. But we can't continue to produce this consistency and at the level of quality we aim for without your help. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form, currency or transfer method. Your donation will go on to support a wide range of humanitarian and media missions, aiding those local communities who need it most. Donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movement CDM families of deceased victims, internally displaced person IDP camps, food for impoverished communities, military defection campaigns, undercover journalists, refugee camps, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies COVID relief and more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs. You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution to a specific activity or project you would like to support, perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode. All of this humanitarian work is carried out by our nonprofit mission better Burma. And the donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fun. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website better burma.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause in both websites except credit card. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to these respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org. That's better Burma. One word, spelled b e t t e r b u r m a.org. If you'd like to give it another way, please contact us. We also invite you to check out our range of handicrafts that are sourced from vulnerable artists and communities across Myanmar. Available at a local crafts.com Any purchase will not only support these artists and communities, but also our nonprofits wider mission. That's a local crafts spelled a l o ke Acra FTS one word a local crafts.com Thank you so much for your kind consideration and support
1:13:43
good day or whatever
1:13:45
Ira Nanga, nada we are done under the gun is adamant. We got our busier and busier yada yada yada, yada yada yada, yada, yada No, no