Transcript: Episode #127: Helping to Cushion the Blow
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Claire Thorp, which was released on October 14th, 2022. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:14
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01:51
do not lose hope. Do not lose faith. Most importantly, do not lose the momentum.
Host 02:24
You're about to listen to an interview I conducted with Claire Thorpe. She describes her journey into meditation through the 10 Deva passionate courses of Sn Goenka and her subsequent visits to India and Burma. She also goes into why she started up Sati designs a company based in England, which in her words, quote, creates thoughtfully designed ethical meditation cushions to enhance your living space and inspire you to invest time in your well being and quote Sati designs meditation cushions are ethically sourced and beautifully designed to serve Yogi's in all sitting postures. As Claire has also been following the democracy movement in Myanmar since the coup, she has generously offered to donate 20% of all sales, Ezzati designs to our nonprofit mission better Burma, which supports urgent humanitarian missions across Myanmar. This special promotional period starts today October 14, and runs for two weeks through October 28. Whether one makes a purchase as a gift for oneself, a quality meditation cushion can support a lifetime of practice. And in this case, the cushion has the added benefit of serving as an expression of gratitude, knowing that a part of the proceeds went back to support those in the country where these priceless teachings of liberation are disseminated and preserved to learn more about Claire's company had to Satie design.com And with that, let's get into my discussion with her. At the way that you're gonna have a good day and I'm happy to be joined in this episode of insight Myanmar podcast with Claire Thorpe. She's the founder of Sati design, which we're going to hear a lot more about. They have some very exciting products that I think are very relevant for many of our, our listeners and connected with what's going on in Myanmar now as well. So Claire, thanks so much for joining us here.
Claire 05:12
Hi, thanks for having me.
Host 05:15
Let's get right into understanding a bit about what your company does, how it was founded and what it produces. I, when I looked on the website, I was quite interested to read all the descriptions behind not just the products you offer, but how they're made and why you went about founding this mission, which is basically meditation cushions making a very special type of meditation cushion. So describe a bit about why you wanted to start this company, what led to that, and then learning a bit about how these products are made and put together.
Claire 05:52
Yeah, so Sati was was born out of I basically started meditating about eight years ago. And it's, it changed my life completely. I sat a course at Dharma deep of a passenger center, did attend a 10 day course there. And inspired by my my partner at the time, actually, who was practicing. And I was very intrigued about this, this technique, and I would see him get up every morning, you know, sort of early in the morning, sit for an hour. And it just really sort of, you know, that sparked an interest in me, I was intrigued, like, what is he doing? I didn't really understand it, you know, I was quite sort of, I would ask him afterwards, like, what are you doing for that whole hour? How are you staying? So still? And? Yeah, and so that sort of really started me thinking about meditation, and, you know, and, and sort of the benefits I could see in in him, you know, working in his life, it really Yeah, it interested me. So I went and took a course. And it blew me away. There this this first course of mine, it was extremely difficult, but I, I got through it. And I I was just absolutely astounded by the results. And I, it's funny, because after that, first course I sort of I said to myself, Oh my gosh, I'm never doing that, again, it was so hard. And even though he said that I sort of knew there was there was something in it, there was there was some sort of pull there almost like a sort of magnetic pool that I felt towards the practice, just because it was so powerful. And, and sure enough, after about six months, I went back and I served. And I, and I think after that service, I really, I really started to realize just how, how Yeah, I guess just how powerful this technique and the whole practice was. And over these eight years, I have been sitting and serving on a fairly regular basis. And so a few years ago, I thought, right, I need I need to invest in a meditation cushion, you know, so that I can practice at home and in between retreats. And I went online to find a cushion that that I liked. And there were many cushions available, of course, but they you know, they sort of prize function over aesthetics, it seemed that that was more you know, that was kind of the main selling point of these cushions and I thought actually, what I would I really wanted was a cushion that was that I felt was sort of had some sort of soulful element to it or, you know, that was aesthetically pleasing a cushion that I would happily have in the corner of my bedroom and keep out you know, not have to not have to pack away. So, you know, and then this quote kept coming back to me, which was, you know, create the thing See wish existed. And, and I thought, well, maybe there is a, you know, there's an opportunity here for me to fuse my passions, which, you know, are meditation and textiles and my sort of creative calling, because I did textiles at uni. And they sort of led me on a journey where I went to India for a few months, and I went to Joe poor, which is the, it's, you know, the sort of the home, and the heart of handicrafts. So, block printing and things like that. So I, and I've always loved traveling, and I've always loved India. Yeah, and, and what happened was, you know, I ended up doing this incredible course, in natural dyeing. So using, using plants, to dye fabrics, and, and also block printing with natural substances like mud. So I did this course, and, and, and, through this course, I just met some incredible people who, who just, you know, taught me all these incredible skills. And it all just kind of came together. And I just thought, yeah, this is, this is the time and it really feels like Sati is, is this, it's all all these values aligning for me. And, Anna, you know, Sati, for those of you who know anything about Pali, Sati means awareness. And it's so you know, the reason to call this this company Sati is just because it came about because of this very, you know, I wanted the process to be a very conscious one, where we were using, you know, that the impact on the environment was very low. Using natural dyes, and, yeah, and processes, but also just this very, you know, the nature of block printing, it's a very mindful technique, because it's, you know, it's very hands on, you have a wooden block that's been intricately carved. And it's, you know, so you're having to print very well, I mean, they do it very quickly. But when I was learning, I was having to do it very slowly, because it's very much about like, you know, the pressure of the block on the fabric, getting getting it evenly, you know, evenly sort of spaced and things like that. So, yeah, so I just think the whole process is very, is very mindful, which I feel is, you know, absolutely in line with the, the actual function of the product, which is to, to cultivate mindfulness.
Host 13:30
Yeah, that's, that's great to hear. And I think one of the things that I appreciated when I saw your website and saw the products going back, I guess a bit into just the practice of meditation, I remember when I first started out and a group of peers around my age we were I was living in Japan at the time. So some, some Japanese foreigners that were there and we were all kind of getting into the groove more seriously together. And when the courses would end, we would go somewhere in the Japanese countryside and hang out for a few days. And our and do our sittings. And I remember at one point, someone after a sitting one of the guys just kind of turning to me and saying, you know the the one of the great things about meditation as we don't need anything to do it, we can just, this is something we could do anywhere, we don't need to buy anything, we don't need to be anything we can just it's just this thing we get to discover and, and practice inside ourselves. And that kind of minimalist attribute of the practice really, quote always hung in my mind. And when you think about the practice of meditation, you really don't need much and the only two things I can really think that that you need are some kind of cushion and some kind of blanket or shawl. I don't know what else you really need for that practice to just simply do it and you don't even really need those things. I mean, all of us have met who have meditative may have had, have meditated in some some probably rather strange places just out of necessity just with them. Whatever was around makeshift, but those are the things that are that to really be comfortable you need. And as far as the shawl, you know I have one of my most prized objects is the shawl I was given I before I had been to India and I seen these older meditators in the West having these Indian shawls, and to me, it always seemed like this mark of like, you know, like you've made it or you, you, you're some kind of seriousness, or legitimacy that you have this, you have this really nice, thin, beautiful shawl that you're wrapping around yourself and just this elegant, graceful way. And I happen to mention that to a friend of mine, who later became the passionate teacher and then later left that became a monk and he's a lifelong monk, and between Thailand and Canada now. And he, I said this to him, and he gave me this shawl. And I immediately said, Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry, I wasn't saying that, you know, to like, like, remind you that I wanted a shawl and you had an extra limb to give me and you know, now I feel bad about it. And he said, No, no, no, he said, Actually, and he gave it to me. And he said, but you know, I give you this. And if you become enlightened, you have to remember I gave you the shawl and send me send me merits. And I kind of laughed, and the he didn't return the laugh. And he said, No, I'm serious. Like I'm giving you this shawl, because I know that you're a serious meditator. But if you attain any stage, you have to remember that this is the shawl that I gave you and share the merits with me at that time. And I said yes, yes. Okay, you got it. And that's, you know, that was two decades ago. And that's still the shawl that, that that I have around, and that whole memory and gratitude and friendship with him. And then when I went to India, I that was one of the things on my list like because like, I want to find where do I get these meditation shells and looked all around and finding a few I liked and brought them back for those closest to me is, you know, the special gifts that this is, just as I had received this from this person that meant so much to me, this was this was the the intention, I was giving it to others. So, you know, so the shawl part of it. And I should mention, I'm really happy to say that I see that part. Yachty is now selling Indian shawls. And so those that don't have to travel across the world, or have a friend who does, you can actually you can get those, those accoutrements are available now. Maybe it takes away some of the mystique. But you know, it's great that those those are accessible. But the other part is the cushion. And when I started to practice as well, same as you, it's like, well, what, where where do I buy the cushion. And at that time, 20 years ago, there just weren't that many options. And most of them were, they did not look like they were designed by meditators, they looked like they were designed by people that were like this is, you know, meditation, yoga, cushion, whatever you want to do, and it just didn't for knowing how I sat, they just they weren't made any comfort. So my mom actually just made them for me just by padding and basic textile and just just made something workable. I could sit on that was, you know, the function been around for since that time. But so all of this comes back to what you're doing. And you know, when you look at these, these two basic things, you don't need to meditate well to meditate, as we said, you don't need anything. But if you do need something, these are the only two things I can really think of that you need are a cushion in a shawl you have that you're good to go anywhere. And, and you know, and you are, you're right, right, and you're you're bringing the cushion part in so this is kind of just this theoretical background, I'm thinking of when I see this and you know, that this is this is the value you're bringing, and that people that that just as this shawl that I got is so meaningful to me and so imbued with, with with just so much deep significance of what how it was given and what it means and how it was made. I think for a meditation cushion. I mean, this is if it's properly made, this is something that as a serious practitioner, you buy for life. And that if it is if it is ethically sourced, and made in a mindful way and and then of course, you know, has to have has to be have the practical way of being made that's suitable for many, many hours of sitting, if it has all all those features combined, and this is something that is just just your friend that accompanies you with everywhere you go. So yeah, so these are just some of my thoughts I had when I started to see your process and think about my own background and meditation.
Claire 19:26
Yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing those things. Yeah, and I really do agree with you that it's, you know, a Christian is it's a sacred, it's a sacred object, isn't it? That like you say it, you will use, you know, perhaps daily for the rest of your life. And so it's it's significant. And yeah, and I think this was one of the things that I Um, you know, that I felt like I wanted to inspire as is that I wanted to create these beautiful cushions that would almost kind of cool you, you know it be a sort of an inspiration to you to sit more you know, because if you've got a lovely set up in your, in your bedroom in your living space, whatever. For me personally, that is a, it's an invitation to sit more. You know, and I know that it doesn't, it doesn't need to be a beautiful question for you to be able to meditate because like you say, you know, we we can sit on any cushion, or even no cushion. You know, sometimes it's fine, you can meditate anywhere. But I think I think for me, personally, I'm quite an aesthetic person. And I've always been interested in sort of interiors, and the way that your environment affects the way you feel and the way that energy flows through a house and all of these things. And so I think it's, you know, helping people to create a sacred space that they can devote to that practice is I think it's really, it's really important. And yeah, it's just a nice, a nice incentive, isn't it? You know, on those days, where perhaps we don't really feel like practicing, you know, because those days do come where you sort of, you feel a bit uninspired. But if you've got this lovely set up, just waiting for you, it's perhaps it's a little, you know, it's a little invitation there.
Host 22:03
Yeah, and I think the whole intentionality of the sacred, the follow up piggyback on a word that you use that I definitely agree with, concerning concerning how to make a meditation space, that you know, whether it's a time of day or a place in the house, or a, you know, what one is using, some people might even do something like aromatherapy or have some kind of chanting or just something that that makes it sacred in the day that this is this is a way from other parts of life. And there's, there's a place for it, and one can go there and it becomes more of a refuge than something that bleeds over with everything else. So that it definitely can serve that purpose. And I think having before I saw your page, I just hadn't really seen a lot of other products that came with that intentionality. Often it looked like it was the other way around that looked more like a marketing or an entrepreneurial opportunity where someone was just trying to tap into this existing crowd. Rather, it's someone from within that crowd thinking, as you said earlier in this interview, that if can't remember the words you use, but to create something that you want to see that doesn't exist. And in that sense, if it's a product not being marketed for a group, but actually coming from within that group to fill an existing need, then it it, it can, it can create that significance. And then more importantly, once it comes into someone's life that can then be, it can take on an even greater significance from you know, of course, how it's how it's made, and how it's produced. And the mindful qualities, those are one thing but then as it's, as it's used for that daily practice, it takes on quite another set of meaning over the years. But I'm wondering also of you, you talked a bit about the block printing that you do, can you describe a bit more of the process. And I should say that on your website, you go into a lot of detail about the different aspects of how this is, how you've come to make these and how it's sourced and what's inside it and everything else. It's quite fascinating for those that aren't on the website. Now, can you walk us through some of the more interesting parts of production and also your decision making process and actually going to Jaipur and how you chose which communities you wanted to work with how you monitor the work they're doing, how their process of working goes into your methodology and your beliefs and what you wanted to create.
Claire 24:29
Yeah, so So in terms of the actual process the way it's it's wonderful how it's all unfolded because you know, I went to joy poor with with my boyfriend, Ben. And we, we just, it all just evolved like so organically. We just ended up me Eating people weak. So we had the intention to go and create these cushions. And, and Ben was interested in, in block carving, so that carving the wooden blocks. So we went to the area enjoy poor, there's an area called Sangha near. And it's this, it's the block carving sort of area, you know, it's literally that is all anyone's doing there. And there's this particular street, which is where all the workshops are. And so you walk down the street, and it's just incredible the sound of the tapping, they use his tiny little chisels and a wooden block to sort of hit the top of the chisel. And it's just, it's so fascinating, you know, it's like, all these workshops, and, and they have, they don't have doors or anything on the workshop. So you can just see straight in and there's about like four or five guys in this tiny little space, you know, obviously sitting on the floor, as they're very good at doing in India. And just just chipping away, all bent over chipping away at these at these wooden blocks. And so we went down this this street, and he actually, we were with an Indian friend of ours. And so she was able to translate for us because he he wanted to find someone who could teach him how to how to carve. So yeah, so our friend Nidhi was was able to kind of to ask this one man, whether whether he could teach, teach, bend to carve, and he agreed and so, so he started teaching Ben how to carve over the course of a few weeks. And I think it got a little bit difficult with the, with the translation, because obviously Ben couldn't communicate, he couldn't speak Hindi. So after a while, there was a there was a man called calm fear, who worked in a workshop sort of down further down the road, who could speak English and would come and see Ben, you know, and see how he was getting on and they would chat. And anyway, Convair ended up taking Ben on in the end, just because it was an easier setup. But yeah, COVID showed Ben how to, you know, how to how to carve these blocks. And and I think Ben was quite, he was quite surprised at how difficult it was. Because these, you know, they so they have a set of chisels. And they're all set ever so slightly different. So they have slightly different tips and slightly different ends. And, you know, you hit them in a slightly different way. So I think, but I think they were all very entertained by, you know, by this Westerner sort of giving it a go, they thought it was great. And they were very encouraging. And over time, he got really quite good. And he was able to do more intricate designs. And the way that it was working as I was drawing the designs on graph paper, and then I would I would give them to Ben and then he would, he would carve the wooden block. And it's Indian rosewood that they use for the for the blokes. And then yeah, like I say, I did this, this natural dye course, which was actually just outside Joe poor in in a village called buggery. So this is a village that's very well known for its natural dyeing. And there's a lot of families who, you know, have have maintained the tradition because it's a, you know, sadly, it is a a dying tradition, just because, you know, chemical dying is is much more you know, it's easier to sort of mass manufacture chemically dyed fabrics. So it's a very niche. You know, it's a very niche process, but incredibly beautiful. And, yeah, and so after I'd finished this course, I had a word with the people who who own this particular workshop and it really is a workshop. It's not a factory at all. There's like two people who run it and then there's a man called Shivaji who is like printmaster plant he he comes from a you know, a whole line his whole family. This is what they've done they've always just done block printing and natural dyeing. So yeah, I had a word with with them and just said look, would you be open to helping me produce these these meditation cushions but you know, really the covers not not the actual cushions? And they and they said they would be so. So between Ben and calm there who were who were carving the blocks and then Avinash and Krisztian shiv, Raji, who were the dyeing, dyeing and printing people, we were able to print these beautiful covers. And then we had to saw someone who could create the insides of the cushions. And we've got a few different styles and sizes and shapes and things of cushion. So, but the there's a boot on the big square floor cushion. And we have some rectangular, smaller cushions that you would place on that floor cushion. We found a man called Maqbool to make the sort of cotton inner, for for those cushions. And actually, I found him through I started a course at Dom Attali and joy poor, and I inquired about where they got their cushions made. Because when I was sitting the course I was thinking, oh, yeah, you know, that's, that's an obvious that's an obvious link to make, you know, because they will have employed someone to to make these cushions. So they very kindly pointed me in the direction of, of Mokbel. And again, he is, you know, it's it's a family business, he works from his, you know, just basically basement of his house, and all his family help his mom's there, his daughters, he doesn't speak any English. So his daughter's one particular daughter would translate for us, which was always very helpful. Especially when you're dealing with dimensions and things, you don't want to get it too wrong. So yeah, so between all these, all these sets of people, we were just able to create, we sort of linked them up. And, you know, and just so production Now, luckily, can actually happen, you know, from afar, because everything's in place now. For it to happen. So if we need to reorder things, we can just, we can just ask the relevant people to make the things and, you know, they're all connected. So. Yeah, so it's just, it's, it's all just been don't know, I think the intention was so strong. For this particular venture for this particular project, I just think everything, you know, sometimes things just conspire to, to help you. And I really feel like that happened, especially because when, when we were in India, it was, it was 2020, and COVID hit, just as we were kind of in the middle of this project. And, you know, when I look back at the timing of all of this, it's quite astonishing, really, because we, we basically managed to finalize production, just before lockdown actually, actually sort of hit. So, which is just, I still can't quite believe how we managed to get it all, you know, all the kind of like, threads tied up, so to speak. And everything finalized, and everyone knew what they were doing. And then locked down here, and then Ben and I were, you know, we're in an apartment for a month or so just, you know, could sort of go out for a couple of hours a day. And that was it. So it was quite a crazy trip that, that that first one.
Host 33:54
That's great. So you mentioned about the different patterns that are made and the style of making them? Is there any significance or background to the patterns that are chosen? Like, are there deeper meanings or significance of what the patterns refer to? Or do they have ethnic or cultural background or connections or what what goes into the patterns that end up being created on them?
Claire 34:19
So I guess the Yeah, the prints that I've that I've designed are I mean, they don't necessarily have any though, there wasn't a sort of conscious efforts to you know, create symbolism or anything. I'm just I like, I'm a big fan of mark making and, and quite minimalist design. So I think that was you know, that was really my, you know, they don't necessarily have any deeper meaning. Yeah, although the we do have one print, which is a, like a sort of Fleck, which is created using mud. And we've called that the nature print, because we wanted to use, you know, sort of, we did want to call them significant things. And as anyone who has done over passing, of course will know, you know, Nietzsche is it's impermanent. And for, for some reason, we looked at this print and it just it just looked like a Nietzsche. It's a sort of strange thing to say, I know, but it was like, oh, yeah, that's that one's definitely a Nietzsche that one. But it wasn't intentional. So, yeah, I wish I could say it's, it's, it was deeper meaning but but no, it's more just the the aesthetic is is minimal and, and calming. You know, I wanted to use just sort of simple shapes. And yeah.
Host 36:08
Right, and how about the filming? What have you What have you found to be able to staff the cushions with?
Claire 36:15
So the floor cushions and like I said, the rectangular cushions, and also we have some knee cushions to support your knees. They're all stuffed with cotton. And so they're all stuffed by this this man Mark ball. And it's really fabulous. His workshop is wonderfully sort of chaotic, and how would I describe it? Basically, sort of, there's a there's a simplicity, you know, to the way he works. You know, he's, he's very, I think he's quite a sort of traditional man. And so when Ben and I went to go and see his his little workshop, you know, it's like, sort of like cushions everywhere, fabric everywhere. And then he's got this wonderful back room where he has this fantastic machine, which is, I suppose the only way I could describe it is it looks like almost like a Victorian Mangle. It really does look ancient. And he wanted to show us this machine. And we were like, oh, what does this machine do? And he went and he turned it on at the wall. And it basically what it does is he he when he buys the cotton in it is it comes in sort of quite solid in a solid form. So it's like a sort of cotton batting like a cotton filling. And what he does is he sort of feeds it through this machine. And this machine. I don't really know how it works, but it fluffs the cotton up and then it sort of spits it out the other side in these kind of like, almost like cotton clouds, these sort of puffs of cotton come out the other side. And he has a curtain to stop all these these cotton clouds kind of just taking over the entire room. And then he goes behind the curtain with these two, two wooden sticks. Always like big chopsticks and he kind of collected up these cotton clouds to then stuff the cushions with. So we were just absolutely fascinated by this, this process. And what was funny is he couldn't understand what we found so amazing. Because we were not we were laughing We were just like wow, this is just incredible. And you know, but this is his every day. Which was really funny. Because, you know, he was like, Well, this is just what I do. So yeah, so we fill those ones with with cotton. But then we also have the zafu cushion, which is the round cushion. And those are filled with spelt husks. So spelt husks are basically a waste product. It's the husk of the spelt flour grain. And there really are very few uses for these husks so but they make a fantastic cushioning filling because they're very light and malleable as well. So they're, they're ideal for really, you know, you can really kind of get a good seat going with those you can really sort of mold, mold yourself to them.
Host 39:54
That's great. And that actually leads to my next question looking at the design And setting options that you chose. And I think for those who haven't meditated before, there's this kind of idealized imagination of a Buddha statue or kind of New Age photos that that just show up or a person sitting in sunlight around the beach just perfectly there, their back erect and their, their legs just evenly balanced and their hands open. And sometimes it's funny when you go on meditation courses, where you see first time students, you'll see the first several hours, you'll see students sitting in that kind of perfect supposed understanding of how one should sit. And then of course, as one practices meditation further, you, you know, as as you're working through different things in the mind and body, you can end up in some pretty odd postures and pretty odd facial expressions, and, you know, and everything else, and so there's, there's this reality of what it's actually like to sit and people who do that everyday know that and then there's the imagination of the bliss and the perfect posture that that we see is how was advertised, of course, being a meditator, you know, the former and you know, the how, how sitting actually takes place, and also the different different body shapes, different limitations of bodies, different different ways of sitting might lead to different things in the meditation. So people might experiment and try different kinds of postures to experiment with that process, and as well as obviously age and other things. And so, I think just simply going to a meditation course you see all the different ways that people are navigating, especially in the West, I think in Burma, it's, it's quite different. I mean, people just sit on on hard rock or wood or whatever else I often laugh in Burma, that's a sign of how, how serious or austere, someone is among core practitioners at Citi and you simply look at their their ankle, their ankle bone. And for those who have really put in the hours and mostly it's on hardwood, you see that ankle bone bone just completely worn away and catalyst from resting on a word in all my time environment, I, I still couldn't do that I just I thought what asleep and just pain beyond what I was able to endure and needed some sometimes when there wasn't a cushion, that simply wasn't possible, I would do little tricks like putting like a sock, you know, right on the ankle bone or right above or are behind it, just so that it just gave that little bit of a relief there. But I think certainly in the West, when you go to a course you see all the different experimentations of how people sit and how they're, they're looking for some kind of basic comfort, to be able to engage in the process without being distracted. So as you were looking at having this understanding, and then as you were looking at the different types of options to make available because again, this is something practical, this is not a, a just a kind of fluff piece of wanting to look like it's fitting into the next big thing. But this is something that you actually want to be a something of the sacred something of a lifetime investment, something that that people will not just look good or have as a conversation piece, but something that is actually supporting and promoting even their men in their daily meditation and something they come to love and and be with meeting. But for that there, in addition to beautiful prints there also it also needs to be practical, and it needs to be practical for lots of different bodies, lots of different postures, lots of different ways of people going with the practice. So how did you as a meditator, and then as a designer and entrepreneur, think about the different styles of cushions to offer so that the many varied kinds of sitting methodologies can be accommodated through that.
Claire 43:46
Yeah, that's an interesting question, actually. Because this is one of the reasons that I I wanted to make the rectangular cushions in particular because that was something that for me, you know, starting quite a few different centers and, and most centers have those those cushions that differ passenger centers, you know, you might get a few zafu tight round cushions, but on the whole the standard is those rectangular cushions. So I have practiced mainly on those that that style of cushion rather than sort of a high you know, because there's our fees tend to be a little bit higher. So this was something that that I wanted to create because I just couldn't find although they seem to be ubiquitous in the center's I couldn't seem to find them online. And, and I you know, I do prefer I prefer a lower a lower seat. So that's, that's why I've designed those ones in particular. But what It's interesting is that actually, the majority of people want the zafu, you know that the round cushion. And I don't know if that's because it's just a more that particular shape is more common. So people are more familiar with with the shape, especially people who may not have done much meditation before. That's what when they think of a meditation cushion, that's what they think of. Yeah, so, but, and also, the another thing that was very difficult to find was knee cushions. And that is a very practical cushion. So, you know, I think, unless you've done hours of meditation, you may not see the need for the cushions. But you know, when you're sitting Of course, you, you, you, it doesn't take long for you to realize that, you know, that actually, yeah, like you said, with the sock on the ankle, it's like, oh, gosh, yeah, you need to prop up limbs in weird places. And, and yeah, it's funny what you said about, you know, newer students sort of trying things out, because it's quite common, isn't it to see these sort of Dharma thrones sort of forming? On the overpass near courses where, you know, students kind of, and I think I did the same, you know, that first course, it was like, Oh, well, if I have another cushion here, then it will be easier, oh, but maybe I need another cushion here, you know, and then you end up with a mountain of cushions, and you realize that, actually, it helps a little bit, but it doesn't really make that much difference how many cushions you have, it's, it's still gonna be a bit painful.
Host 46:51
Yeah, I think when I first went to Burma, I was just so impressed by the austere conditions that everyone, for the most part, is able to just bear through. And part of that, of course, is the culture. I mean, even like Japan or other Asian countries, they just are, as you mentioned, with India, they just, they live closer to the ground. I remember from my time in Burma, going back and telling my grandfather who was in his 80s at the time, that the elderly people I saw in Japan, were all sleeping on the floor with futons that they made every night. And I remember him just looking at me in absolute awe that, you know, and he said, if if I were to try to sleep on the floor, I would never be able to stand up again, it just it's a different way of living. And, and but that being said, I was really moved by the, by how easy it seems to be for Burmese of all parts of life to come in to a meditation course for a sitting and just be able to just to just sit and just Just bear and just manage and it had an impression on me. And then especially as I started to live in the society longer, and I saw Westerners come and you'd see a you know, sitting in a pagoda or a cave or somewhere and I would sometimes laugh about the the ritual, it seemed to me of the Westerners spending 10 minutes preparing their sitting site, you know, blowing up cushions and taking out shawls and setting, you know, setting the place to sit and you know, and the Burmese would just go and sit and I was so influenced by the culture at that time, and really trying to, to understand through their perspective and integrate into that, that I was probably a little judgmental and a bit like, Oh, this is this kind of Western, these western comforts and, and needs and everything else. But I think as I've, as I've aged and matured and looked at it from a bit more perspective, I just see that like putting dedicating your life or at least even part of your life, whatever part that is, to a practice of letting go and observing this is so against the stream and so hard and so challenging, that I'm just much easier than you know, being a bit more hardcore and, and rigid in my beliefs when I was younger, and just like whatever it takes to do that, you know, and whatever, if you need a little more of this, or a little less of that. But by getting that that is able to more easily dedicate your life in some way to undergoing that practice. That's a good thing. And, of course, you know, it's wonderful to see the more practitioners who who are coming with more of this dedication and perhaps even more sacrifice and more renunciation, one can say renunciation of all types of things. That is, of course, very inspiring, but it's also it's a hard path and you know, life is hard. It's full of a lot of dukkha and challenges. And an unpredictability is and I think as you mature and gain a deeper appreciation of that you realize that having a little bit of this and that to just ease into that spiritual renunciation that that's that's really okay for people doing what They need to be able to make that space and make that time which, you know, really so few are doing and it's so against the values of most worldly societies anyway.
Claire 50:08
Yeah, that's right. That's right. And I think there is that, you know, I think when you sort of start to walk a spiritual path, there is definitely, there's almost a bit of a danger isn't there that you can kind of go to too extreme? On the kind of, like, anti materialism route, where you are, you're sort of, yeah, I guess you're denying yourself things that you don't need to deny yourself. Because you can still be, you can still be spiritual and live in abundance, you know, it's not, it's not a prerequisite. Of course, there are. There are advantages of, of, you know, renouncing certain things, but but like you say, life life is, it's hard. And sometimes we need, we need certain comforts, and that's okay. And, you know, and having a, you know, something like, a beautiful meditation cushion. Of course, it's not going to be, you know, the top priority for a monk or a nun, that it's a beautiful object. But, you know, perhaps for, for laypeople that is more of a, you know, more of a need. So,
Host 51:41
I want to bring the conversation a bit more to Myanmar, I understand that you took a trip a pilgrimage there as a meditator, can you share a bit about when, when that was and where you went, and the impressions of that visit?
Claire 51:54
So that was, that was early 2016, I think it was. And so Myanmar as a country hadn't really been on my radar until I started practicing for Pastner. And I, I really felt I was, I felt such a strong calling to, to visit, I think it was after, like my, you know, second course or something, I just made this resolution in my head, it's like, I'm going to Myanmar. I have to go I felt a real a real draw to the country. You know, given given the incredible the connections there with, with for Pasadena just had the sense of gratitude that I felt towards this country and its people for preserving the technique. And so I Yeah, so I decided I was going to go but I could only get a three week visa, I think it was. And I knew that I wanted to set a 10 day course. So you know, I started that 10 day course. And then I had, maybe so yeah, 10 days of traveling, so it wasn't very long to actually see the place but but I got when I arrived, I got a taxi straight to the passenger center. Which, yeah, it was lovely. The taxi driver was was telling me about the the Yatra that Glencoe had done a few years before and how he, he was telling me how he had taken, taken people around. And yeah, he spoke very fondly of it. And I thought, Well, gosh, isn't this amazing? Like, I've just gotten this taxi and this man, you know, he knows all about for passenger, he's, you know, knows about going like, it was just like, gosh, this is this is so ingrained in the culture that the, you know, the Buddhist sort of Yeah, the Buddhist tradition is, is, you know, that was my first interaction. And I just thought this is incredible. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and it was interesting, because obviously, all I could see was like, out of the taxi, you know, that was that was kind of my, my impression of Burma. And then I was kind of in this, you know, in the center for 10 days with my eyes shot most of the time. So it was sort of it was an interesting introduction to the country because I was sort of hearing it more than I was seeing it actually, which was quite interesting. It was a very kind of fascinating experience, because I was hearing the birds and I was you know, all these sort of exotic birds and I was hearing because it was in Yangon to his Dharma job.
Host 54:55
Right? That's, you hear a lot and Dhamma Jyoti Dhamma Jyoti is one of the few going because centers in the world that's actually in a downtown location. And it's on a street with a lot of monasteries and nunneries. And you, you hear a lot of Yangon on that street. So I can imagine if you're not familiar acquainted with Myanmar culture in any way, and then just landing at that center, you're just going to hear the daily sounds of life of people selling things and of cars, and then also of monasteries and nunneries and the canteens and the ALMS rounds, and everything else. And not to mention, obviously the birds and what and insects and whatnot, which you you'd hear anywhere, so yeah, it's quite a steer stereo compilation that you get a mixtape?
Claire 55:38
Absolutely, there was I remember, I remember hearing, like, every, every afternoon, there was there must have been like a restaurant or something very close to my bedroom. And there were all these men who used to sort of sing in the kitchen, because it sounded like kitchen, a kitchen, they were kind of like, pans clinking and, you know, I just, it's interesting, I had all these kind of visual, you know, visual kind of ideas of what it looked like, and what the people looked like. And I mean, of course, so you know, there were the people who are meditating. The Burmese people who are meditating and like you say, one of the things that struck me was like, gosh, a lot of these people don't even have cushions. Are they doing it? Right? Yeah. So, but yeah, but I just I felt such a warmth towards the country, even just in that in in the center. I, I, there was, I didn't know there was a sense of real familiarity with with the place and, and I think, you know, when I left the center, and I started traveling, and I didn't travel far, I only only made it to the inlay Lake and began. But I, I remember thinking I could spend months here. And I wish I had had longer I wish that I you know, and and so I had this idea that I was going to go back and spend a longer period of time traveling and going to different centers in Myanmar. Yeah. You know, which, yeah, after the after the coup was like, gosh, that's, yeah, it was it was very, yeah. Just really harrowing to hear of everything that's been happening.
Host 57:41
Yeah, I felt the same thing on my first visit. And that's, that's why I, I went back, I was able to find a way spent live there 15 years and, and was able to get deeper into those initial things that I saw. And then as one gets deeper, obviously, you you peer more into beyond that the surface impressions and even things of the time that CD seem deep and go more into the nuances of how the culture works. Not that I'm anywhere near an expert. I think the deeper you go into it, the more you realize what you don't know. But I appreciate what you were saying as well about the taxi drivers. That was something and I've said this on different interviews before. But that was something that stood out to me so much was taxi drivers and hotel clerks and waiters, and just an assortment of people that when they found out I meditated, it wasn't just Oh, good for you. That's great, which you don't even really get in the west so much because it can, things are changing now, certainly, but but it can also be a bit weird at times. But it would actually be discussions, it'd be like talking to them about the differences between the Mahasi and the Mogul techniques and why one worked better at understanding the mind clearly than the other or talking about Scripture talking about certain monk discourses or other things and I was, it was such a playground of, of Buddhist practice and more than a playground in the sense that one was able to learn so many different ways of applying and understanding the Buddhist teachings than just one method or one organization because there are so many very pathways of how people made sense of it. But beyond being a playground, it was also like a PhD study or something where people were so serious and so dedicated about what path they were on. And so to learn from monks as well as lay people, certainly an assortment of lay people who are holding down jobs and businesses at the time and to hear about how they were, what path they were on how they what they were renouncing or how they were following certain sense of discipline or what they were through their practice or their their behavior or their certain Volunteers services, they might dedicate themselves towards how they were following in the path. And it just, it gave me I think when I started to live there longer, it just gave me such a freedom and realizing that you really had this ownership, and this this freedom and flexibility, to be able to, to live in a variety of ways and to choose how long lived and how unpracticed that would fit under this umbrella. And that that can change over time. And that could, that could, you could also experiment, I mean, a lot of kind of playing, I think that was something I didn't quite get before I came was the playful idea of meditation, it always seemed like a very serious, rigid, exact pursuit of following adhering to the law, the letter of the law of what those meditation instructions were, which is definitely helpful when you're starting out to when you don't really understand what you're doing. And you're following these instructions by someone who knows more than you do. But as one progresses, there can be a kind of playfulness and kind of experimentation. And let's, let's see how this is. And let's see how that is. And let's experiment with this. And that was all things I learned there. By seeing how the society and how the different people would bring the teachings into their lives in different ways. And this is a culture that has been at it for much longer than we have and has much deeper roots than we have over there not and that doesn't mean they do everything. Right. They're definitely newcomers can definitely beginners can definitely bring a new perspective into things that where it's entrenched, they don't have and so there's definitely a lot of advantages that we've seen how it's taken off in the West. But that whatever those advantages, are they the flip side of that is these deeply entrenched, traditional patterns that have been there for for for many years, and that people can also work and explore and play within. And so that kind of dynamic quality I just saw is fascinating. And I think that that's, I still think that's really not properly understood. I think that a lot of times Burmese Buddhism for those who don't understand it, because everything looks the same, the monasteries and the monks and everything else, it looks the opposite of dynamic, it looks static, it looks like everyone's doing the same thing, because the vinyasa monastic code, and the and the monks and nuns dress, of course, that everything looks similar. And so there could be a feeling that everyone is doing the same thing. And they've been doing the same thing for a long time. And this is how things have been hundreds of years ago. And it is true that there's a thorough line of that type of tradition and teachings following forward. But there's also if you look at Burmese Buddhist history, and you look at the landscape of Burmese Buddhism today, and this is leaving, just leaving aside all of those thorny and uncomfortable issues of the nationalist monks and those supporting the military and against Muslims and such. That's that's another, another very important topic. But just leaving that aside, for a moment, if you're just looking at the ways of being a practitioner, or being a Buddhist, or following the teachings, there's that that kind of surface uniformity is really underlied by quite a degree of experimentation and daringness, and trying new things and incorporating in different ways and sometimes pushing a bit too far and having a bit of controversy or tension with other traditions or authorities. That's been a part of Burmese Buddhist history for for for centuries. And it's still true today. And so I think, living within that, and this is just all tagging what you said with the waiter or the taxi driver, being familiar with going because visit that this, to me is kind of symbolic of a much deeper touch that many people have across many professions have just been interested in the landscape of Burmese Buddhism, as someone in other countries might be interested in sports, or politics or business or whatever else. One is following in the world, people are just following the developments in the recent history and just the general landscape of what Burmese Buddhism is. And I think that's something that we really miss in the West. And that as we understand how it operates in Burma, not that everything's perfect, but it does give a can provide that sense of playfulness and experimentation and, and trying something seeing how it goes. So yeah,
Claire 1:04:26
yeah, that's so that's so interesting. Yeah, I guess. That's, you know, we're human, aren't we? And we, you know, just because a society has a, you know, a Buddhist culture. It's not to say that it's it's uniform by any means, because we're all different. And we're all we're all seeking. You know? I mean, we're seeking the same things, but in different ways. So yeah, that's a very, very interesting opposite. ovation. And it actually reminded me when I was in Yangon. I, I went to a park, I was staying near the SU lay pagoda. And there was a, there was a man, I was reading a book and there was a man there who sort of came up to me and he said, Oh, you know, is that an Oscar Wilde book or something? I don't know, he wanted to talk about Oscar Wilde, I think because he saw I was, there is English. And we got chatting, and he, and he was telling me that he, you know, he volunteered at an orphanage, and he was showing me all these pictures, and he taught there and he, you know, helped to feed them. And I thought, wow, this is fantastic. You know, this is random man, it just feels like everyone is kind of, I don't know, doing doing something doing something helpful. You know, I mean, I didn't didn't meet that many people. But it's, it felt like the people I did meet, we're doing quite incredible things. You know, they were by sort of English standards. It's like, Wow, gosh, you're, you're really sort of going out of your way to help people. And, and he actually, he's, I said, you know, and, and I would never do this. In England, I don't think or many places. But for some reason, I really. I had a very good sort of intuition about this man. And I said, you know, would you take me to see this orphanage? You know, I'm really interested in actually going to visit. And he said, Well, he said, I think the orphanage was was closed or something that day, I can't remember the exact reason but we weren't able to go. But he said, but I am going to this monastery where I, I support the monks, I think he I think he sort of helped with, he was seeing sort of volunteering for them. I can't remember exactly what he did. But he sort of organized community events, or something he sort of was the go between, for the monks and the community. So he said, Do you want to come to this to this monastery? With me? And I was like, Yeah, sure, you know, this, this random man who I'd only known for sort of half an hour, I was like, yeah, so we, you know, get on a local boss, and, you know, no idea where I'm going, but, but it's interesting that I'm going to this monastery and yeah, sure enough, went to this lovely monastery and, and he introduced me to, to one of the monks, and we sat and had a cup of tea together. And you know, the monk couldn't speak any, any English. So move, man was was translating. And it was just really, it was like, Wow, gosh, look at that, you know, an hour ago, I was sitting in a park reading a book, and now I'm having tea with a monk. You know, who's telling me to become a nun? That was one of the few things he said was, you save your head and become a nun? So, yeah, that's
Host 1:08:09
great. I want to get to what you were talking about just a bit earlier, with your mentioning that you took the short visit to Myanmar, you desperately wanted to come back and spend extended time as a practitioner digging deeper into the culture in the monastic environment, and then the pandemic happened, and then the coup and just how devastating that was. So I think there's been a lot of commentary about the coup from, from those that are looking at it from more academic or journalistic angles. And obviously, the people that are caught up in that, but for the foreign practitioners, and for those that Myanmar serve serves as this place where there are the spiritual opportunities that that are open, and that one has come and benefited from them. The coup definitely from faraway places that it has an impact on, on just remembering how special the country has been and the interaction with the people. So I'm wondering for you as you first got word of the coup, and as you follow along to understand what was happening, having experience with the country directly, and then also being a beneficiary of, of this practice, not having anyone been there, but this particular tradition originating there, what were your thoughts and feelings as you were following along and what was there any sense of, of how you might like to be engaged or what you might like to do that that was coming as well?
Claire 1:09:37
Yeah, it was. I think perhaps like many people, when I first heard about it, I I just wasn't, I mean, it was so shocking, but I just had this sense that it wasn't going to that something would happen and it wasn't going to be prolonged. At least That's what I hoped. And, you know, it's like when I saw, I mean, your platform has just been so fantastic Joe for, for keeping up to date with what's been going on. Do you remember, I remember in those early days, you, you know, sort of showing how, you know, people, all the people out on the streets, and that, you know, it almost felt like the power of the people was going to, you know, that was going to that was going to win. That was that was somehow the strength. And that that good volition was was going to win. And I think as the weeks and months passed by, and, you know, I, I realized the severity of it through things you were posting on it, it just hurt. It's left me with with such such a heavy, a heavy heart. And I know that I wasn't, you know, I wasn't in the country for very long when I did go. But I felt such a connection to the country and to the people that it it was it was heartbreaking. And, and I think I felt a real sense of like, I need to do something, but I don't know. I don't know how, and I think a lot of people felt this sense of, you know, there's a, there's a helplessness that comes when something is happening, you know, in another country. And, you know, I was signing petitions, I was donating, I was sending meta, and I just thought, you know, these things are all helping, but, you know, what else can I do? What else can I do? I think in these in these times of crisis, you know, we have to, we have to look at what we're able to contribute, because we all have different skills. And, and I think that, for me, this is for me, Sati as a, you know, my business is a it's a way for me to bridge bridge this gap between the service that I do at the center and making a living. And so because I see it as a as a sort of service, of course, I'm earning money from it, but because I see it as a service. I, my my volition is like, How can I help as many people as possible through this mission? And so I thought, well, you know, it's, it makes so much sense for me to, you know, to run a campaign where where, you know, some of the, the profit, some of the money I'm getting from the sales is going towards a good cause. And, for me, this, this Burmese causes incredibly close to my heart. And, you know, because of, you know, especially because of the practice and the gratitude that I that I feel towards the country and the people, but I think it's really been cemented by some friendships that I made when I was in Burma. You know, I met some girls through the capacitor course that I sat, and they were, they were so kind and, and lovely. And they took me and some other meditators out for for lunch a couple of days after we finished the course. And, you know, they paid for everything. And it was it was just, they were such incredible people. And so I think having that kind of personal connection with people in the country, in this country, that that's going through such hardship at the moment. And it's just reinforced my, my desire to help and I've, I've been in contact with them, you know, to sort of check though, especially in the early days, I kept sending them messages to check they were okay. And you know, and they would always be very light in their response. They say, you know, yeah, we're we're fine don't worry about us. But I do wonder whether, you know, whether they were perhaps withholding information because they didn't feel safe to say anything else. I just don't know. Perhaps you know, they are. They are fine yeah, but yeah, I think those those friendships really yeah. They were sort of, they just they just helped cement that volition. Yeah. So and I think, you know, because the country is just Yeah, it's very close to my heart. And yeah. And I also actually met, I was serving a few months ago, I was serving with a Burmese girl who lives in England. But is her family are all still in Burma. And as she was, she was telling me how she she basically cried every day for the first year. Because of everything that's happening to her, and I just could see, I could just see the pain. And, and she also said that because I was asking, you know, I was like, really interested to actually speak to her because I said, you know, what, are your family telling you what's, you know, do you speak to them on the phone? What, how are they? And she said, Well, she said, they can speak on the phone, but they can't talk about anything to do with what's happening. Because, you know, they don't know if the line is, is marked, or, you know, they just, everyone feels so unsafe, that, that no one can even talk about it. And she was telling me also that her sister is a civil servant in Yangon and, and her family all really want her to leave her position, you know, because they don't want her to be working for essentially the military. But sister is so terrified. Because she knows that if she leaves, then she will have to, she'll have to go on the run. Because she she won't, you know, she her safety would be compromised potentially. Yeah, so yeah, it's a very I just feel like we there's there's something we can all do, no matter how small by using our, our skills, and, you know, coming together to to help.
Host 1:17:32
Yeah, I agree. And I think that when the coup first hit, you know, very few people can say that they're prepared to know how to handle a sudden military coup. I say very few people, because unfortunately, in Myanmar, there is an older generation that does have those institutional memories of the battle days, but the young generation did not they did not really even believe those stories and suddenly had to find just a a backbone of steel that you don't know you have until those situations and I think that one of the things I also appreciate about what you're saying is that I think it's so important to tell these stories, these very true and authentic stories about Myanmar has a giver and a provider, I think that it's so misunderstood and the way it can be characterized in international media, as being a failed place that always is in need of help. That's a need of pity that's that needs to receive the the good wishes and the help of other people. And I think that that's a very distorted version from one of the most as you and I know one of the most generous places in the world and a country and a people that are such tremendous givers. And so gracious and giving not just material things like taking you out to eat for a lunch but giving spiritual teachings offering a spiritual home offering you to, to be a nun and to have all your needs taken care of. So you can you can you can pursue a spiritual development of letting go of things and that this the the giving that we are now doing to Myanmar is not the giving out of pity or have someone advantage to someone less advantaged. It's it's part of a reciprocal relationship, especially for for those of us who've benefited from spiritual teachings or from visits to the country that is, is reciprocating what has already been given for so long, either directly or indirectly. And I think that it is there is an unsafety there when you talk about your friends, not really knowing how safe they are. There are definitely people that are in more danger based on their location based on their involvements. But there's also no safety anywhere. There's there's no not even in one's own home. I mean soldiers, the soldiers who are basically now just bands of marauding thieves and rapists and murderers that are just burning and pillaging their way through the country right now through the reports that we're seeing. I hasn't really affected the cities on the same scale on the same intensity and consistency, although even in the cities they they sometimes get bored or drunk or angry and they just they fire weapons in random homes. Countless people brummies have told me about bullets that have ended up in their homes or things that have broken because bombs or mortars have have been nearby just unimaginable on Fathom bolts have to live through that. And they we know that the this current military is not very well trained, and they're not very motivated. And so they don't pick fair fights. They don't look to fight to have battles with PDFs or or Aeos. That can, they usually beat them and pretty convincing victories. They look to go after vulnerable populations, they look to go after villages that are undefended or IDP camps of people who've already fled or ethnic areas where they already have tensions. And because one side is by and large, being much more humane, and being careful about the innocence and the other isn't, that's a huge disadvantage that they're able to continue pressing. And there's stories of surprise attacks launched on certain bands of soldiers, who then turn in the other direction and run to the nearest village to burn that village because they want to take out their vengeance and want to inflict pain on someone for the pain they just received. And so there is a whole country hasn't blown up yet. And hopefully it won't, but there isn't any safety in terms of where one can go. And there's certainly no higher authority to appeal to when it's these authorities that are just these bands of raiders and Raiders around the country. So So going moving to the current promotion that we are launching on the eve of the release of this episode, and as lasting for a couple of weeks beyond this date. As you mentioned, there is a portion of that that will be going towards the better Berman nonprofit, which is the greater nonprofit which our podcast rests under. And this nonprofit was founded several weeks after the coup, we didn't have any background in nonprofits before this. But as we mentioned, everyone just had to do whatever they can, one of the things we could do was set up a legal mechanism for being able to collect donations from well wishers around the world to go to humanitarian missions and Myanmar. And all of the donations that we received go strictly towards humanitarian missions, they go strictly towards non violent needs, ranging everything from IDPs, to clean drinking water to medicine and COVID Relief, protecting vulnerable populations who are suddenly under assault and need to quickly move and be safe in some other area. Feeding monks and nuns going to poor areas as well. So the wide range of missions obviously CDM, civil disobedience movement, as well as a wide range of nonviolent humanitarian missions. And so with any purchase of any of the products of Sati, designed from now for the next couple of weeks, a portion will go towards this and I I was thinking about this. And I think one of the things that struck me is that as we were talking about meditation cushions being invested in shawls, as I gave my story, being invested with this kind of significance, this kind of mindfulness, who gave it to you where it was procured how it was made, the quality and the aesthetic, and the practicality, all of this and it's something that can accompany through one's life on a spiritual journey. The I was thinking how special it is that to think of having a meditation cushion, as we've talked about that would be for life, but knowing that the purchase of this cushion was going towards the place which one can say made the meditation possible that the meditation originated in a place which is at least this particular tradition like going to tradition, Goenka and his line of teachers growing up in Burma. Obviously, the Buddha came from India many, many centuries ago. But this particular practice coming from Burma and now Burma being under so much stress and tension that this meditation cushion has one continues to use knowing that part of the proceeds of acquiring this went back to that place where the meditation was made possible so it's this kind of beautiful loop that is, is is connecting many different pieces which is quite lovely. When you think about that intentionality and closing just a thought. You know, I agree with what you said everyone has something they can do and whether it's sunny meta giving donations, giving some kind of volunteer practical support checking in on friends, some of these things don't cost any money simply to send an email to friends is, and seeing letting them know that you care is does does a tremendous amount. We've benefited our nonprofit, I should say has benefited from similar individuals who have just taken it upon themselves at the German woman in Berlin, who just decided to bake sales for a month with donating all the proceeds to better Burma, just cooking, cooking and selling muffins and cookies and such and had another recording artist who did a kind of musical compilation and all the proceeds again, that went to better Burma. So these kinds of creative ways that one could step up and can can contribute either through fundraising through little acts of fundraising that then go into the pot and help the people or even things that are more advocacy and awareness. We did an interview with a a an article 3d artist in Montreal who just decided to paint a mural on one of the streets in Montreal, reflecting the experiences in Myanmar and what they're going through just to try to bring that out, there was a very famous mural that just went up in I think it was Belgium, that was somewhere in Western Europe, I think cup of tea is the Instagram account. Or Switzerland, I think it was Switzerland, where where it went up. Also depicting it, there was a guy I saw online that was I think, in Tennessee, or somewhere in the US that was simply playing bagpipes. And he was just playing bagpipes trying to raise awareness about the attention. And then of course, one of the account that many people follow that's quite inspiring is this guy who, in Atlanta, who just decided to run 5k every day for Burma, and has done that since the coup. And it's gotten people around the world to do that. So whether it's small things that are encouraging advocacy, or whether they're small actions that are bringing fundraising, these these are the power of the individual and all this momentum counts. You know, in the past, when these things have happened in Myanmar, and the military knows this very well, there's condemnation at first and shock and horror and from the why the big organizations and the leaders of countries and people read the news, but then life goes back to normal and people forget, they get distracted by other things. And the military is able to really when they know they're in the shadows to really do what it takes to retain their control and oppression. But these acts are so important because they're they're trying to turn this tide and just as Generation Z in Burma today has done things that no other resistance group has ever done. And past moments of trying to unroot this evil. Around the world, there's also a role and however small the action is to be able to not just quietly go away and lose attention and lose focus. But in the small ways they add up to something larger, which is sustained attention, sustained motivation, sustained resistance to the military, and solidarity with the people. And that's what this platform is trying to do. And that's what your initiative is also doing. So really, thank you for that.
Claire 1:28:14
Well, thank you as well, Joey, what you're doing is just absolutely, absolutely incredible. You know, just just making people aware of, of what's happening. And not, not giving up as well, you know, continuing to, to inform people, I think it's so important.
Host 1:28:41
Well, just following the lead of our brothers and sisters in Myanmar, just trying to, to follow in their sacrifices and their hope and just just just hope they know that we're not alone, that there's allies who do care and that from our freedom and safety, where we're using. We're using that to be able to work and speak on their behalf.
Claire 1:29:00
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Host 1:29:04
So with that, thank you so much for joining us and taking the time to talk about your spiritual journey and your product and thanks for this special promotion period, which is starting today.
Claire 1:29:13
Thank you so much Host Thank you.
Host 1:29:31
We want to present a special opportunity for donors who are committed to our show. While we want to stress that we greatly appreciate donations of any size, larger donations, of course, are particularly helpful. For that reason we're encouraging donors with means to consider sponsoring a full episode for a one time donation of $350 or more. Donations in this category can include a dedication if you'd like to a person or organization as well as a quotation or expression or your generous donation. and be anonymous, the choice is yours. In either case, it would give you the satisfaction of knowing that you enabled at least one more episode to be produced for the benefit of the people in Myanmar who have suffered so much at the hands of the military. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military coup, we welcome your contribution, any form currency or transfer method. Your donation will go to support a wide range of humanitarian missions, aiding those local communities who need it most. Donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movement CDM families of deceased victims, internally displaced person IDP camps, food for impoverished communities, military defection campaigns, undercover journalists, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies COVID relief and much more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs. You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution for a specific activity or project you would like to support. Perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode. All of this humanitarian aid work is carried out by a nonprofit mission that or Burma. Any donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fund. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website better burma.org That's b e t t e r b urma.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause, and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account you can also visit either the Insight Myanmar better Burma websites for specific links to those respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org If you'd like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration and support alright guys so much