Transcript: Episode #51: Home Is Where the Heart Is

Following is the full transcript for the interview with these guests, which appeared on May 9, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.

Host 00:16

Thank you for taking the time to listen to today's episode. As you know, the current crisis in Myanmar is extremely concerning. And we appreciate that you're taking the time to be informed about what's happening. There's value even in just becoming aware and helping to inform others. So please consider sharing this episode so that more people may learn about what is really happening in the country, as it's critical to ensure that this issue remains present in the public discourse. For now, let's get on to the interview that follows.

Yi Mon 01:16

Hey, by the way, a good day.

Host 02:01

You're listening to the second episode in our ongoing series titled, love letters to me and more. For those who have been following along our podcast journey, you know that before February 1, our shows were designed to showcase the themes of meditation, spirituality and Buddhist study related to Myanmar. Following the coup, however, we felt compelled to transform our platform to respond to the current state of emergency that has since gripped the country, the topics that we have covered, and the stories that our guests have. So vulnerably been sharing our admittedly heavy, it's critical that our platform be able to bear this way as we support and amplify those voices who want the world to know their reality. So we are all better informed about what is really happening in Myanmar. However, as important as it is to bear witness, hearing repeated tales of inhumanity, cruelty and loss can take a toll on one's emotional and mental reservoirs. We hope that this new series can provide a kind of counterbalance to our recent run of episodes. In this show, and the ones that follow, guests will be sharing their warmest memories and anecdotes discuss what life lessons they have learned from their time in Myanmar, and talk about the role that the country and culture has played in their lives. We'll be checking in with meditators, teachers, scholars, aid workers, exiles, diplomats, celebrities, and many more to showcase how widely the influences of Myanmar has touched people from such diverse backgrounds. This episode, called Home is where the heart is, is a mirror image of the first episode in the series. That one told the story of three non Burmese who were deeply impacted by their time in the country. In this one, we hear from three Burmese speakers who talk about leaving their homes at a young age in order to settle in a foreign country with their families. They reflect on the influence of their native culture. Our guests include Eamon whose family went to Japan, paying his family went to Norway, and Lily whose family went to the United States. They described the challenges of adjusting to the new countries and cultures while holding on to the values of their homeland, and how the Buddhist teachings have guided their lives even after settling into lands, where few around them follow Buddhist principles or have a daily meditation practice. They closed by sharing their thoughts and feelings in following along with the protest movement from afar. Before we hear from our guests, I want to take a moment to thank Ashley Lewin, a Burmese American friend who conducted these three interviews for her stellar job behind the microphone. Her curiosity engagement and active listening made me feel like I was right in the room with Ashley and her guests, and I think you'll feel the same. Finally, we want to reaffirm that the love letters to me and more series is not intended and should not be seen as an escape from the current circumstances in Myanmar, especially for those of us now listen mean from places of freedom and safety. It is to help reground us all in why we care so much about this country in the first place. I hope these shows can aid us in keeping our hearts firmly rooted in the golden land, while also providing a sense of renewed energy and purpose as we face the latest developments. With that, let's get into the show.

Ashley 05:27

Hello, Eamonn, thank you so much for joining us today.

Yi Mon 05:31

Hello. Thank you for having me. Yeah, it's

Ashley 05:35

good to have you here. So I would love to hear a little bit about you a little bit about your background and who you are.

Yi Mon 05:43

Sure. My name is human. And I was born in Yangon. My Chinese Burmese grew up in Jamar so I was a minority. My first language is Burmese. And I used to learn Chinese when I was little. I finished high school in Amar. And then I left the country when I was 17. My whole family moved to Japan, and I lived there for like 14 years. And then we moved again this time to the United States a few years ago. Now I'm working here. My time in the mall was very simple. I was a kid, I was a student. And it was an ordinary life of a kid from a middle class family, nothing exciting. And I'm from a strict family. And I feel like they're a little overprotective. Sometimes, I wasn't allowed to go out with my friends that much. And I wasn't allowed to go on overnight school field trips. So when I was there, I would say my life was quite boring. It was like school. And then after school classes to homework study, and just a repetition of that. I don't really remember being very happy as a kid or a teenager, I was a quiet girl and a good student. But I didn't complain much when my parents didn't let me do things that other teenagers do. So when I left my country, I didn't know many places or even many kinds of food. I only started to learn more about Newmar. After I have loved the country. I used to work as an announcer radio announcer in Japan. So I had to introduce about my country, my culture to Japanese people to the listeners. So I had to study and learn more about my country only after I have loved my country. And then, um, although I didn't know much, when I was there, I always loved my country, the culture and the people, especially the people, Mr. People are really friendly, easygoing, generous, kind and warm. And they also have a good sense of humor, too. They can find something to love about even during a hard time like this. That's something I like very much about my people. Wow,

Ashley 08:13

thank you for sharing that. Well, I have so many questions. Now. You know, the first thing is, I'm not sure if listeners know that there's is there's quite a big Chinese population living in Myanmar. I know that my own grandparents migrated to Myanmar, from China on my mother's side after actually during World War Two. So I wonder if that was about the same time that your family migrated to to Myanmar from China?

Yi Mon 08:43

Yeah, I think so. My my grandparents from both sides are from China. And I'm the third generation born in Jamar Wow, yeah, that's wonderful. Actually, my parents my my dad was working in Japan since I was like, eight. He left the country before we did. Yeah, I wonder once you got to Japan. Did you miss anything about Myanmar? Um, my friends. I was a kid. So yeah. When I got to Japan, I didn't have any, any friends there. I I didn't learn Japanese before I leave. So it was a whole new world for me. And I didn't have any friends. I went to a Japanese language school and there were a lot of people from all over the world and we don't speak the same language. So they also don't know Japanese. I don't know. Javon. I didn't know Japanese as well. So it was a little bit difficult for me to make friends. But yeah, so at the beginning, the thing I missed the most was my friends.

Ashley 09:58

Yeah, I can imagine as it teenager, you've developed, you know, strong friendships over the years with with high school friends, middle school, elementary school friends and moving to a whole new place, I imagine was pretty challenging to integrate. Yeah.

Yi Mon 10:16

story that came into my mind is something related to 1988 revolution. I was only four at that time. But the incident was very big. So I remember it quite vividly. One day, I was at home and there were a lot of people on the street protesting and chanting loudly. In my house was the second house from the from a big Avenue so I could see them and hear them clearly. Then my grandmother came to me holding a bag of some items, and, and bombs. So then she took me out to the streets, put some small bottles of bombs into my hands and told me to give them to the protesters. random people. I don't know those people. And then, as a kid, I didn't know what was happening. I'm curious what the bombs were used for. It's like, ointment. You apply it on your your injur ies. Oh,

Ashley 11:18

I see. Yes. Uh huh.

Yi Mon 12:47

Yeah. So I give those bombs are immense to the protesters. As a kid, I didn't know what was happening there. I didn't know why those people were shouting and walking in a big crowd. I didn't understand what they were chanting. One sentence that I remember is democracy ashi yay, doy ayay, doh ayay, which means we want democracy. We want democracy. But I didn't understand that at all. I didn't understand what democracy was. And I think I didn't ask either. But I tended with them, because it seemed fun for a four year old kid. But the reality I didn't see as a kid was really cruel. There were a lot of killings, shootings in the 1988 revolution. But I didn't remember those things. All I remember was that I grew up living under the impression that speaking about politics is a taboo. It's not allowed. My parents taught me not to speak about politics in public, to not have interest in politics, and to stay away from police and soldiers, so that I can be safe. And I didn't question, but I just followed. Like in military, like in army, I just followed the orders. And I grew up like that. I never questioned. And I was scared when I saw a policeman or soldier. I was scared of them. I was scared of their guns. I was worried. Although I did nothing wrong. I grew up with fear. I don't mean that all the police and soldiers are bad. There are good ones. I know that, but I was afraid. That's the impression I had. And after I got to Japan, I started to notice that police and soldiers are not the people we're supposed to be afraid of, unless we did something bad. And also in the United States. People love them. When they see them, they say oh, thank you for your service. Thank you for protecting us. And when I see that, I really I really want our military or police or army to be like that to be loved by the people. And I hope my wish will come true one day,

Ashley 13:53

thank you for sharing that. Especially about your your early memory. You know, I very much very much relate to that. I think I was two years old during the 1988 uprising. And it also happens to be my first memory you know, standing in front of the house eating a banana and hearing the same chanting and trying to chant along with with the people and just feeling the energy of the crowd. And maybe you can relate to this you know now when I hear that chanting it just I get chills. It really provokes something very visceral in my body when I hear it. Yeah, I think you can be arrested right for talking about politics or even mentioning Aung San su G's name at one point.

Yi Mon 14:41

Yeah, you're right. And we we should not be having the pictures. I mean, also suggests picture and father put your own son's picture at our house. If they find out it's going to be a big problem. can be arrested.

Ashley 15:01

Yeah. So I'm curious how all of that impacted you growing up.

Yi Mon 15:05

Um, when I was there, I thought that it was. It was natural. I mean, like, that's all I knew I didn't know anything except that. So that was normal for me. I just found out that we didn't have our rights until I got out of the country, and I saw the world. And only after that I realized that we have been losing our rights are human, our basic human rights. There was no freedom of speech, freedom of expression. And also we didn't. We didn't even get our basic needs like electric city. We got only a few out, we could only use electric city for a few hours during the day. And but it was normal for me, because I didn't know anything else. That's all I knew. And that's very sad.

Ashley 16:15

Yeah, yeah. I remember that. times when you would go to pay for your electricity bill, you had to pay the person at the, at the office money on the side, just to just for them to receive your, your money for your bill. Yeah.

16:36

Yeah.

Ashley 16:38

So I wonder, having spent 17 years in EMR, how did it impact the rest of your life up to this point, um,

Yi Mon 16:49

I would say it had a good impact on me in some ways. One thing I would say is the religion. As you might know, the majority of numerous Buddhist and we have so many monasteries, the goddess meditation centers. And I grew up as a Buddhist, relatively a religious, Buddhist, and a lot of people send their children to monasteries to become Nan's or monks or Yogi's, during the summer holidays, to learn the teachings of Buddha and meditation. And in my case, I wasn't like, sent by my parents, I chose to go. When I was 13, one of my close friends asked me to join her to become a yogi for a week during the summer holiday. And my mother was supportive. And I decided to join her. It was like it was going to be a new experience for me away from the family for a week was not bad. So I was excited. And then the first few days were really tough for me, we had to wake up around 4:30am in the morning, and then get ready to go to the Hall of meditation. Then we meditate for about an hour or so then have breakfast around six, six, something. And then we got a break for like an hour. And then we started meditating again until lunchtime, which was around 10 3011. And then we had to finish lunch before 12 because all the Yogi's nuns and monks are not supposed to eat after 12pm until the next sunrise. We had to meditate the whole day with a break in between until like 8pm or 9pm. I don't remember exactly. But yeah, it's around eight or nine. And so the schedule was really tough. And I wasn't happy at all, at the beginning. But then a senior non moved me and my friends to a group where we had to learn the map, which is a concept generally known as the teachings of Buddha. So we started most of the time during the day, and then we had to meditate only for a few hours. To be honest, I didn't like meditation at that time I was I was just a kid and meditation was a little bit hard for me. And then I wasn't I wasn't very happy at the beginning. But after moving to this class, I enjoyed my time there. So we had to really study and take exams and I started to enjoy the life there since then. I was really interested in de ma and the exams also motivated me to study more and get prizes, and I ended up spending the whole three months of summer holiday there, I was a yogi at the beginning. And then after a few weeks, I decided to shave my head and become a non. And I passed up to level five, and I got a good foundation what which helped me study further about Buddhism and demont. Throughout my life. I learned how to meditate. And meditation helped me a lot in my life. Whenever I face all the ups and downs, like I told you, I moved to Japan when I was 17. And I started working right after as a waitress, I think it was after three months, I started working, when my Japanese was very limited, because I only started learning Japanese when I got there. So I faced a lot of bullies, depression, anxiety, and dyma was my rescue. I, I always listened to the MMA talks even now, and I try to practice as much as I can. It gives me peace. It helps me control my anger, fear, greed, jealousy, and all the bad emotions so I could become a better person, thanks to the MMA. And when I was in my mid 20s, I really had a hard time at work, where I faced our harassment and bully from my boss. That time I had depression, I thought I was useless. I had anxiety and I even sought professional help. The doctor gave me some medicine to make me relax. But that wasn't a real solution. It only made me It only made me sleepy. And I was like, on the clouds. It was like forcing me to be calm. But the side effect was that I couldn't think clearly. I wasn't productive. I wasn't active. So I stopped seeing that doctor. And then I started to look for a better solution. And Dima, I listened to a lot of Dhamma talks. And it helped me to pull myself together, and you get out of depressed and anxious state of mind. So being mindful of what you're thinking will help you a lot. It will stop you from thinking negatively. And I'm very grateful that I was born in Jamar and I know Burmese language because memoria is a country where you can find really great marks great teachers who teach the math very well. You have so many options. If you don't like the way a monk or a teacher teaches. You can listen to someone else. There are so many options. And you can learn a lot easily. And there are so many techniques. And yeah, you have choices. And if you like reading, you can also find so many bugs reading in Burmese. So I feel very lucky to be born in Jamar and had a chance to meet and practice Buddhism. I think I'm a better person thanks to the MA. And another thing that I learned from demise that I became to be able to see people as they are despite of the color, ethnicity or religion that they believe. I grew up among the idea of discrimination, gender stigma and superstitious ways of thinking. But as I learned deeper and deeper about Buddhism, and Dima, it took away those ideas. So that's that's something I am really grateful for being up amazed. I mean being an EMR. Yeah, that's

Ashley 23:57

beautiful. I think you are very fortunate to have had some foundations in Jamar spending three months and and really developing a deeper understanding of Dhamma and practice of meditation that have carried you on over the years. Speaking of Dhamma and the Buddhist teachings in Jamar the recent protests and uprising has really been a display of the rich Buddhist culture that has existed in Umar for so many years. Do you have any thoughts about that?

Yi Mon 24:33

Yeah, I think the protesters in Myanmar chose to be peaceful. And they chose a non violent way to show their feelings to show what they really want. And it's all based on meta meta is a loving kindness. It is one of the basic things that you will Learn when you studied the mark. But what we are seeing is that the military is not acting the same way there. Although they say that they're they're following, they're going to protect the religion and the country and whatsoever, but they're not following the teachings of Buddha. They don't show any loving kindness, what they're doing is just, I would say it's crimes against humanity. And, but I am very, I was moved to see the protesters is still very peaceful. And there are a lot of things that I would like to say to, to them. I know a country is in a very tough situation. And everybody is frustrated, tired, sad, scared, angry. And I'm feeling the same way from a very far place. I myself was also very surprised and angry when the military announced the coup. It is unacceptable, it is against the people's will. And it's a threat to democracy. I have been following the news closely since day one, and have been actively participating in every way that I can. And but it's really sad that they have been killing people who don't really have any weapons, who are just peacefully shouting and chanting their feelings what they want and asking for the rights. They're not asking much. They're just asking for the rights. And we have seen the history repeating again and again, and we're not going to lie at this time. This is not 1988, this is not 2007, we are in 21st century, there is no room for dictatorship in this world, we have to fight it. And we're fighting along with the support of the international community. We're using new ideas, new technologies, with a generation C in the front line with the support of experience to Generation Y and X. And this is not an easy fight. I know that you know that everybody knows that. This is not an easy fight. The military has weapons, while the people have nothing but each other. But we have each other. Together, we are stronger. Together, we can win this, and we will win this. This is not a fight between some political parties. We're against dictatorship, we're against crimes against humanity, we're fighting to get our rights back. We're fighting for democracy. It's gonna take longer than we want it to be. But if we lose this time, we will be under the military dictatorship for decades again. So we will fight until we win, no matter how long it takes. There's no way back. We're fighting not only for us, but also for the future generation. And I want to say thank you to each and every one who are in Myanmar sacrificing their lives, for the country for democracy and for the people when the soldiers and police who are supposed to be protecting us are actually killing us. And my gratitude also goes to the people who are helping us from outside the international community and everybody who's helping. And I would also want my people from Jamar to know that people like us who are outside the country are also doing all the best we can and our hearts are with them. International Community also stands on the side of Myanmar people. It's it's just a matter of time. It's just a matter of time. bad days will not last forever. We have to be patient. We cannot go violent. Justice will prevail soon. military dictatorship will fall and we will win. The people of Myanmar will win. Thank you so

Ashley 29:43

much, Eamon, I agree completely. The military dictatorship is an old paradigm, it's outdated and we will win because we have to win.

Yi Mon 29:55

We will win

May Oo 30:04

letter from a jail cell by case out when, dear father, the river whose stomach was cut open has declared war on our tiny house on the bank, hasn't she? Right in front of the house, you must be looking out for someone who will help you with embankment polls to straighten the river to fill her holes with sandbags. In the murky river which rises like a bamboo lens. He must be gazing at the sesame plantation, laden with fruits ready for harvest. You must be thinking a fistful of rice in your mouth is about to be fingered out. Maybe you will find solace in religion contemplating our fivefold. Maybe you will think of the Void as sons labor can fill. One son, two daughters and one son. The eldest is a poet in prison. The first daughter, a school teacher, the second a graduate in the kitchen, the youngest a student, your poet, son, is he even employable as the DA you used to clear we'd forgive nothing, Father, nothing. Sun pope john, why do I hear noises behind you? You asked on the phone? I am at the bus stop to post a manuscript for to a journal. I lied. From your lawyers on in the doc do thugs who sweeten you with the tips of their tongues to our benefactor peasants because they want to have you from behind hate them all father hate them all. A thief is unarmed. a thug is armed to the teeth. If thieves are ungovernable if dogs are ungovernable. What's the point of government, whatever happens to the jungles, whatever happens to the mountains, whatever happens to the rivers, they don't care. They love the country just the way they love to grade a coconut from inside out for coconut milk, plant by plant to make their throne taller. They will point their guns at the owner of the Lord Buddha's for hat. Their class is crass to cuss at that class. If your religion forbids you, allow me to lose that religion. I will turn the air blue on your behalf. Maybe you don't know yet. Your son was set up for demanding the so called police not to harm ordinary citizens. Someday your son who is not a thief, nor a thug will become employable. Good as your dot that clears wheat. For now, Father, keep gazing at the plantation you'd plowed with your naked shoulders. Keep singing the anthem of the peasant union. Yours ever gaze out when sell one section 10 by God prison. Giza when town de Gaza to pay? Luda Georgia one by bow to adore me ha Karna Pooja englacial yan Shani Remo lapi English Shinigami calm Bama muira si por eso Kubota HFO Diego paimio NEMA Willow toda la Nina Ma. Kenny our ledger NEMA GTR Luni Hito Nan Kendrick omae tp one is it me logo galore Toka antelope Sinema yanda mule Nava Django sentient B opinion uya pada Deanna T. De niemela Leon Ed also Lou COVID downtown Yeah, downtown in LA. thought that the meanness that Dima but they got a chunk of Yes, yeah, the mean nigga Josie I'm up near boy to mention noted that they got a pilot Hagar going ko darlow ma p dodgy caviar saga rccl Rp. Ba ma maquila Barnett Rp. They approach a Naga Luna new Sonia La Jolla pony Guppy megogo sama boy and gamma Dima Jani Lo Lo linea media di onega PETA agasa Jesus and down to ouji Mia Lucia Galena moo moo Bhima jogo cha cha Dora kisser Surya dummy account, so, Allah will modulae bapi Linda Baba budeau osago quwata the CO lender guide Habibi do osago lujah daughter Nia, the core so Maya de Mia so Maryana a poodle ma Pamela Surya daughtery Bob's it down to a BB Gypsy nidri Bob's only to the low time you go to Brb, a C nego coursebuilder Ludens ardrey through blingo th Me and borssele patented moto the Nadal negative mabie nippa kadala Ludens ra le Ludens andreyko saibal a paper that they are appeal Kwame Abuja, Eddie Bertha delgany jo KB a PSR 13 Thursday avrcp acuity pyramid de David may appear dajia lu gong to counter a pajama purple yet oppressor as you go down Inga mudejar Lonzo ball Marinette hound Mr. Cho Johnny Lee. The name of the Kuma holder appear daga de Miyamoto de pitaka a Pedro Allah Pierre buzzy Merapi de la Pierre was in epi akuna Morrow a paper corner tone yet hobby. He's wandora Yami Vinu niijima down to lay the matamata chango where soon so nibong pay back is that when they already bought in Del Sol de se content?

35:42

Hello, fine. Thank

Ashley 35:43

you so much for joining us today.

Kyaw Kyaw 35:45

Oh, Ashley, thanks for having me here. My name is Pinter cat. And I'm from Burma. I was born and raised there, spend 16 years of my lifetime growing up. That is, before we moved to or migrated to Norway in 2006. With my family, I'm not 30 I stayed to have my families and relatives remaining in Burma. Well, I grew up in a city called Yangon, which used to be the capital, Mr. Officially, and grown up as a kid. I say we were a little bit we let a sim simple life. We weren't. We weren't, you know, very rich, but we weren't at the very, you know, very poor, you could say we could sustain ourselves or we live like middle middle level of, you know, lifestyle. So, we were our people usually, you know, kind of straightforward, I would say we're very honest. We were sometimes really stubborn, I might say and, and we are strong believers of karma. Because most of us living in Burma, are traditionally Buddhist. So we lead the way of lives as in Buddhist teaching. So we're not very, we might not be very religious, at some point, but we lead by the teachings of Buddhist monks throughout the years. So even even as a kid, I might say, we, we were live by a code, which is really hard for a kid to understand sometimes, like, you know, the, the precepts of Buddhism, and, you know, what, mainly the core of the Burmese lifestyle is based on Buddhist teachings. So, as a, as a kid, I mean, there were no much, you know, of a rebill in you. And we, we were we were we were taught not to be so defiance, and very submissive to a point. And, you know, respecting the outturn is very, you know, a core fundamentals in Burmese, in Burmese kids, child, and I was, you know, I was just among one of those kids. So, yeah, you will say I was very submissive, very passive in some areas. We had, you know, constant contacts with, you know, monks and elderly people, we live really close bonds together, in, in our neighborhood, that from from where I grew up in at least, so, as a child, there's not much I could tell you about, you know, like specially, but I didn't think that was like, you know, something special to bring up, bring, bring it up. But when I got to Western countries, like where we're living now, Norway, and then I suddenly come to realization this life that we let there was room Really, really different from how how, how kids are growing up here, you know? So, we were, we, we had really close bonds between families, friends, neighbors, especially barrier, everybody knows everybody in the neighborhood, you know, I would say, you know, there are good and bad and, you know, all sorts of people, but mainly premise people are, you know, simple. And, you know, really, really easy to understand, once you get to know them,

Ashley 40:43

thank you for for sharing that bind. It sounds like it was a really close community where you lived in Burma. My next question is, what role has mimar played in your life, how has it impacted you, or what has it taught you,

Kyaw Kyaw 41:01

the way we were taught from our, you know, childhood to, you know, to adult is that, you know, being kinder to each other, and believing calmer, and, you know, the be nice to each other Overall, we are very, you know, polite, in a way. And we love, we love helping each other Burmese people love to name things to, you know, to, to others that are, you know, in need or, you know, for monks in particular, this is where most of our nation's goes to the monks in Burmese culture is very, it's a really a big role shaping, you know, Burma, for me is cultural, you know, because we do have quite a quite big population of, you know, residing in Burma alone. And their main role to our country is that, to spread the Buddha's teachings, so, that's what they do, they do spread his teaching. And we were, we were, we know, we grew up listening to those teaching, like, you know, since we were very little, you, we may not understand at first, but when you get to a certain point, you starting to, you know, experienced, either experienced it yourself or you know, started, you know, being able to relate to those teachings in your life. So, I might say, I, I live by, you know, Buddhist teaching, pretty much my whole life, I wouldn't call myself a very religious person. But, I do believe in practice this from this way of life. So, we do have fundamentally like five precepts as, as a Buddhist not killing, like or avoiding alcohol, and we do have some non telling eyes, and, you know, avoiding those, you know, but what would you say, um, proper fiscal contacts to people that are unwilling and no stealing. There'll be five core principles in Buddhist teachings for, for everyone. So, I think, pretty much everyone in the word quit to relate to those teaching, but our moral foundations is based off of these five precepts. And well, we will say, we live by those. We live by this principles, and we grew up believing that believe in doing those will bring us you know, fortune or married to our to our life And once we started going to school, we were I wouldn't say harsh, but premise education system was a little, a little strict compared to Western countries. Teachers, back in the days, were a specially harsh, punishing kids back then. So there were there were occasional, you know, beatings, every now and then for not following rules are not doing homework as well, I did have my fair share of, you know, punishments since kids. So I wasn't very, you know, good in class. But I wasn't, you know, very, very, you know, hard to discipline or control. either. So, he was, he might just, you know, normal kid, being, you know, goofing around and being a brat, every now and then in class. But we were very submissive, obviously, compared to, you know, kids in West Western countries. So, that way we grew up until I became like, you know, 1314, where we could, we started to understand our own belief systems and our way of life. And what is being a Buddhist, what is being a person grown up in Burma, and we start comparing ourselves to people around the world and how we are as a person, and how people and you know, how how we are different from others, so that we could, we could understand power wheel lives is unique and different from other countries.

Ashley 47:30

All right. Thank you buying for sharing. Lastly, do you have any encouraging words for people in Newmar right now?

Kyaw Kyaw 47:40

Yeah. If I have to say something, to the people that are, especially for the people that are struggling in Burma right now. I want you to feel really proud and take pride in what you're doing right now. Because there are no cause that I could think of would be more noble than what you're doing right now, risking your life out there, for the good of many, for your own country. And I think that is such a noble, noble might be, you know, underwhelming or underrated word is describe what you're doing. in coming years, in future, you may not have your names, carved on walls or sing songs about you. But we will remember what you did this day, your country and you will be the foundations of what our country's gonna become in the future, or Bloomington. And this is going to be the legacy you will be left behind for your, for your children and children's children. And I also like to add something or, you know, urge for those who haven't heard or join the cause of what's happening in Burma right now. I urge you to participate. This is not the time to sit idly by and let things happen the way they are. This is a rare chance to be able to contribute your country in the in the name of freedom and democracy. Some of us might not even be the citizens of Myanmar in in on paper anymore. depends where you live. But I'd love to remain for the country. As long as that love remains, you can stay, call this country, your home. Now you don't need to be out there protesting like everybody else. If that is not your thing, there are a lot of other things you could contribute and support on what are happening right now to come to, to get to the greater outcomes. So this is not too late to join and stand up to the boys and make things right the way things work. And we could bring back our old glory days, and you know, our sweet little countries back to the way it was. Thank you.

Host 51:12

As a small mostly volunteer team, the production time for a single episode of Insight Myanmar podcast can sometimes be as long as four months from start to finish. More recently, we've tried to increase the speed of this process for special episodes, but the fastest we've been able to manage has been around three weeks. During this current crisis, however, where even a single day can be so urgent, we simply don't have the luxury of waiting so long. We've worked around the clock to shorten this timeframe, and some episodes have managed to turn around of just 36 hours. Similarly, while our previous goal was to produce a podcast once every 10 days, we're now trying to put out episodes as soon as they finish, knowing how valuable it is to get these ideas out there at this critical time. However, we cannot accomplish this increase without your support. If you have found value in today's episode and think that others may also benefit from this type of content at this time, please consider making a donation so that we can continue our mission. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are resisting the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form of currency or transport method. every cent because immediately and directly to funding those local communities who need it most. Donations go to support such causes as a civil disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, and the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies. For if you prefer, you can earmark your donation to go directly to the guests you just heard on today's show. In order to facilitate this donation work, we have registered a new nonprofit called better Burma for this express purpose. Any donation you give on our Insight Myanmar website is now directed to this fund. Alternatively, you can visit our new better Burma website, which is better Burma one word.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me slash better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo, GoFundMe and cash app. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to those respective accounts, or email us at info at better burma.org. In all cases, that's better Burma. One word, spelled b e t t e r b u r Ma. If you would like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration.

53:58

Hello, Billy, thank

Ashley 53:59

you for joining us. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Lily 54:03

Hi, my name is Lily. And I'm from Burma. I was born in a city called loikaw which is in New York State in the north near the Thai border. My family is ethnically Chinese. So my first language is twice on Chinese and then learning to speak Burmese in school. My family immigrated to the US when I was five years old. So what I remember about my hometown is what my home looked like there was a gravid tree in front. There was lush greenery in the backyard of my mom's shop. I remember the route to my grandmother's house. My aunts and uncles there. I remember the school I went to where the classroom was a mix of kids of all different ages. There were wooden benches and tables and blackboards. And there were no toilets. It was just an outhouse. Um, but it's a very hot tropical place. And Lika is in a valley. So it's surrounded by hills, and it gets foggy in the morning. And that's how I remember the most. But once I left, I landed in Pennsylvania, and grew up in the mid 80s, which includes Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Ohio. So I'm really a mix of all these different places that I've lived in different cultures and influences.

Ashley 55:43

Yeah, that's really amazing that, that you recall what your surroundings were like from, you know, from such a young age and Burma? And what was that like for you going from a small town in Whitehall, to Pennsylvania? Oh, well,

Lily 56:00

it was adventurous. So for a five year old, I didn't know what to expect. But it was just that the contrast was really profound. Were in Burma, you're pretty much playing in the dirt, and you're barefoot. There's not many plastic toys or televisions or telephones at that time. So then suddenly, you know, you're in South Philly, which is an urban setting, pretty diverse, but you know, a whole nother language around you. And suddenly, you do have a telephone and a TV set. And that's like your world, looking out into a new culture and country. So, um, I don't think I particularly liked it or disliked it. I just knew I didn't, I wasn't used to things yet. And it probably took me a while to learn enough English, to know what's going on or pick up on things slowly. My daily life as a kid was a mixture of family and food that was bernese are Chinese. And then a little bit of what American culture was.

Ashley 57:33

So it sounds like culturally speaking, there was quite a difference between, you know, the American culture and the Burmese culture. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

57:43

Well,

Lily 57:45

the Burmese culture, it feels like a slower pace. It feels still grounded in some ancient teachings. Um, Burmese people that I've met in my life, family and friends, they're they're just very pure, pure hearted, gentle and very generous. There's just this joy about them, when they welcome you went to their homes, and you have a conversation, and they'll love to just treat you to food or snacks. And it's just really easy to become friends with them. Um, with American culture. It feels like it was hard to mix in with people. It's a whole new society, like the way it's set up. To feel like you're a part of it, it took probably years. Um, if feels more fast pace, more competitive. And you can kind of get lost in your daily lives. With work in your commute. bills are just buisiness that it doesn't feel like it will, you'd have to go out of your way to take some time out and go hiking and get in touch with nature again, that kind of thing.

Ashley 59:27

So it sounds like when you move to the US, it was a little harder for you to get integrated into the culture here. Just because of the nature of it. buisiness and just just more concerned about our own individual lives, perhaps when you're part of it.

Lily 59:47

The immigrant experience is just you know, you have your circle of family and friends and it's not. You're not going to be able to mix into the other groups. of American life that quickly because her parents have friends that are only Chinese or Burmese speaking so. So as a young kid, then for those first few years, it was there is not much English going on in the house. So it was like a limited little micro world.

Ashley 1:00:29

Did you think of home often in Burma?

Lily 1:00:32

Oh, yeah. I really missed my aunt who I was really close to. And at that point, when he wrote a letter and mailed it, it took like three or four months before they received it. And then when they wrote back, it was another three or four months before I received it. He couldn't make it. I don't think we've made international calls at that point. This was in the 80s. So it was really hard, because it felt like, I don't know if I'm ever gonna see them again.

Ashley 1:01:05

Yeah, I think that during that time, it was it was Burma was under military control then. And they weren't, there was very limited access that Westerners had to the country. And then also people in the country had very limited access to things outside of it. So it was very, very isolated. Well, I wonder if there were any certain memories that, you know, would come to you, after you moved to the US, I could share a story of before we

Lily 1:01:40

left burbo. When my parents were preparing paperwork and getting approved to immigrate, they had told me that we were just taking a trip, a short trip, and we're going to come back because they didn't want me to feel bad about leaving family members. But I kind of knew that we were leaving for good. So my dad had brought this magazine that was in English. And there was a picture of Jimmy Carter. He was the president of the US at that time. And it was pixelated. So I have a very clear memory of looking at this picture, never seen an image that's made out of dots before. And my dad said, this is the President of the United States. And that's where we're going. So I just sort of remember that moment. Because I felt like great. That sounds good to me. And, you know, not really having an idea of what the United States was like, or what a president is, I just felt excited about this trip we're going to take but I knew they were not telling the truth when they are telling me that it's just a short trip. But that was a memory for me, because it really, I really appreciate my experience here. I got to go back just once. And so that's the story I'd like to share. It was back in October of 2007. So at that point, I'm about 20 some years, since I've been there. And I'm the city of Yang Gong. It wasn't very modernized. There were no tall buildings or elevators or escalators. I'm sure there was like one escalator in the city. But when you look down into the city, it was still the original buildings that the British had built for homes. And when you were outside of the city, when we traveled, there were no modern sounds. I just remember thinking, like, I don't hear any traffic, or airplanes. It was just all just a breeze or some birds. And people talking. People didn't even have cell phones, but not many people had cell phones in 2007. So that was that was part of the culture shock for me when I visited. And you know, I kind of just sunk into that moment to absorb a place that had no modern sounds like that was really unique. I mean, there was no TV noise. There was no loud advertising. It was just nature and people. I mean, there were motorbikes and people did have cars, but it was just really nice to be able to have That comparison on that trip Yeah, I

Ashley 1:05:07

recall going back about that same time to and noticing that, you know, a lot of people were still wearing the traditional clothes, the traditional OMG. And there were still a lot of bicycles to people were using bicycles and

Lily 1:05:24

Okay, so we landed in Rangoon, and my aunt and my cousin came to pick us up.

1:05:33

Um,

Lily 1:05:36

and he drove through the night in Rangoon, and I noticed there were no tall buildings. And the air was this very humid, big air. And there was hardly anybody on the streets anymore. And it was only about like, 9pm at night. I'm there. There's also no women, I only saw men sitting in cafes, or eateries. Um, um, so those are my first images of being back in Burma. It was night time. It was really dark, like there's not that much electricity to see. I'm not many tall buildings, lots of stray dogs. And so we just settled into our apartment for the night. Um, oh, and then we woke up really early, because our time was off to some prayers and chanting because I think we weren't in a Muslim neighborhood. And then I wanted to take a shower, but there was no shower, there was just a barrel of water. And you would scoop the water onto yourself. And that was your bath. And suddenly the electricity went off, and I was in the dark. So someone had to come and hold a flashlight, so I could see. But it was the first time getting to know my aunt and my cousin and meeting them for the first time. And they're really lovely. I just wanted to describe our first night in inlay. It's pitch dark practically, except for like a few light bulbs here and there in this restaurant. Cabin place we're staying in. There probably wasn't even any lights in the cabin. We had to use flashlights. So we had our dinner. And it was really delicious. It was like some beef curries, tomato salad with some crumpled peanuts, and fish rice, which is the local dish for inlay. And that's just fish, potatoes and tomato that is crushed into the rice. And then you eat that with some kind of root and some puffed rice crackers. It was just really fresh and really yummy. So as nightfall came, there was a full moon. So that was pretty much the main light. When you looked across the lake was the full moon. Its reflection on the water. And you could see the distant hills, like different shades of dark blue and gray. And when I remember the most about that night, that first night staying there was this music came on. So somewhere in the distance somebody was playing a radio, and it was a man singing. And it sounded really ancient, like the language that he was using the intonations was just not modern Burmese. It felt like maybe it was from the 1920s or 30s. And I knew right then in there that it sounded like a folk song in that this was really a unique sound that I had never heard of, and I'm probably not going to find again. So I was trying to enjoy that as much as I could. And all I have of that night are some blurry photos because we had we had cameras but they weren't very clear. But it was just a really mysterious place it felt kind of ancient and majestic. All night I just wanted to stay up watching the moon. And then like around three and 4am you would hear people with their motor boats coming because they're transporting things and then the fisherman's would come across for their Catch. And then that's how the day starts there. And that's how our day started. Yeah, what

Ashley 1:10:07

was that like for you going from the US where you have, you know, a lot of freedom to a place where you're restricted from going into certain areas.

Lily 1:10:21

I wasn't used to it. And well, what happened in mo pa was, I was so bored after a few days that I wanted to go for a walk. And so we walk through the neighborhoods noticing, you know, Little Ducks, and very neat houses, all bamboo. But when we wanted to cross the bridge, a soldier came out with his gun and yelled at us. So that was like the first evidence that there's something else behind the italic scenes that I was seeing. Because he was pretty, it kind of caught us off guard, and it kind of ruined the enjoyment. So there was the guard that didn't let us cross the bridge. Another memory was we're driving to Mandalay. And we saw these people in these white garments that went to their knees. But then their ankles were shackled. And they were working in the field all lined up. So I went to take a picture, but my aunt, like slapped my hand down. She's like, I don't look don't take a picture. Um, so that was like another indicator that there's a whole nother world that you don't see. Or if you don't read about it or know about it, it's, there's an ugly part of the world there. Yeah, I'm

Ashley 1:12:03

glad you brought that up. Because for a lot of us that when we think about Myanmar, we see you know, we see beautiful ancient pagodas and beautiful sunsets and hot air balloons and Shweta going which is, you know, a very ancient, I think, maybe the most ancient pagoda in the world.

1:12:23

And yet,

Ashley 1:12:24

there exists in Myanmar, this other layer of, of just a dark, oppressive side, that is usually kept out of the media. And yet it impacts everybody in the country. So I'm glad you brought that up.

Lily 1:12:46

So Burma, is a land of contradictions. On the one hand, you have the religion, or the spiritual practice and teachings of Buddha, that a good percentage of the population follow in practice, and the people themselves are just peace loving. They're jolly, good natured people. I'm very gracious. And it's really refreshing to be around Burmese people. I think it's really refreshing for me coming from a western world. Just like how simple they are. And they're just kind, very kind hearted. It but behind behind the screen is this military government that has ruled it ruled over the land for decades. And everyone knows that they're brutal, and unjust. And they roll with with fear and an iron fist. And the people have kind of just adapted to that, over the decades whether to live quietly until they can't take it and there's there's an uprising or protests. And every time it's a whole new generation that picks up. So I really feel for the generation that is up against the military this

1:14:38

time.

Lily 1:14:40

Because I've watched or I've learned or read about or heard about stories from my parents. what it was like in the 1960s when the first coup happened. There was even Oh, that was one general day when it was in power and He no he did, he did this move where he changed all of the money from 1020s and $100. I mean jets

1:15:13

to,

Lily 1:15:16

to money that was divisible by nine, because he was told by an astrologer that it would be lucky for him. But, um, so people lost their savings, it just wiped out people's savings. And people were angry. So, um, he switched the rhetoric to blame it on the Chinese that lived in Burma. So there was a week of this is not a protest, this was just scapegoating a group of people, where they attacked the Chinese population in in the major cities in Burma in 1967. That's just a side story. I don't know if there was any protests in the 70s. But 8889, and then 2007. Were other major protests, where it always ended with a major crackdown on the protesters. And they would always be violent, they would always be gunned down. And then they would, they would hold on to power for, you know, another few years. So here we are yet. With the same scenario, only this time, I'm on sensoji as been in the public eye for a couple of decades. And no, she was just trying to start the country off on the right footing of modernizing and rebuilding their economy. So that there's opportunity for growth, and for people to gain skills for modernization. And then bam, this is general decides that he's going to take power back. I don't know if it's because he's trying to protect his wealth, and his family. If he was afraid of getting indicted for things if, when if he really did retire. But it's just hard for a Westerner to leave that, you know, someone could just disregard the election results, and not care about the people itself, but just because he's greedy enough to just take over for his own gain.

Ashley 1:18:06

So after that trip, what was it like for you coming back to the US,

Lily 1:18:11

it was a feeling of relief. Um, I felt a really sharp difference in comfort level, I knew that my life here was comfortable. There's no scary military in the background. I could visit any city, any state and have a road trip here without having to ask permission, or I could have guests over at home with no troubles. So the clear differences of the freedoms I have living in the US was just profound. So at the same time, I have a taste of what it's like to live there. Not having these basic freedoms. I mean, it's hard to imagine you've never been to a place you could read about it. But to really live in a place where you can't move about freely, you have to get permission, you have to pay people under the table to do anything. And then to be in fear of if you did have guests or foreigners in your house that somebody might report you or things like that it was just really pronounced for me. So I'm and when I tell my friends, if you're going to travel to Myanmar or Burma to just Being paired with that. It's not just the tourist sites, that people are going to be lovely. And the food's gonna be delicious or interesting. The sights and smells, you know, will really take you into another world. But it just I don't know if you can get a sense of what it's like, if you're only there for two weeks. I'm coming back here, I, I just really cared about what I could do in my local community or to vote in every election, or to be up on what the issues are, and to have an opinion on things and to talk about issues because I know there's people that don't care about that. They just kind of take it for granted. And I realized that I don't, and it's because I'm coming from a place like Burma, where if my life was growing up there, I wouldn't be able to vote. And if I did, they might not be counted. Um, and I wouldn't have all this opportunity to go to school or to learn anything about any of something that I want to

Ashley 1:21:24

write.

1:21:25

Yeah, I think the.

Ashley 1:21:28

in Burma the The news is something that has been very much restricted over the last several decades. So during under a military dictatorship, you don't have access to news. And even if you do have access to news, it's not necessarily the truth. So you make a great point.

Lily 1:21:48

It's a really good point. Oh, no, you made that point.

1:21:52

Um,

Lily 1:21:55

yeah, even here, when I watched the news, I'm, I'm, I remind myself that you know, what would be another point of view to consider other points of views, and whether the news source is motivated, or trying to provoke fear in the viewers? If it's a reliable source, so you know, you have a gut feeling about this, when you're listening to the news, weather, you know, some people listen to the news. And it just reinforces their beliefs and what they want to hear stroking their ego, I think, because they want to be right about things. And they'll just keep listening to the same news source. So for myself, if it doesn't feel right, like I feel like this is just honest, or what they're portraying is slanted and not just a clear explanation of facts of what's going on. Um, so it's helped me to kind of train myself to be mindful of the news sources that I watch.

Ashley 1:23:07

So in light of everything that's going on in Myanmar right now with the the most recent military coup, what's your experience been like?

Lily 1:23:17

Um, well, I've had a really hard time with it. It was such a surprise, that I had no clue that this would happen. Although, now that I read that people suspected that the coup was going to happen. I'm only because I knew that there's going to be a couple of weeks, three weeks at most, where people are allowed to protest without harm, and then I knew that the military was going to get organized and beat them down. And I just didn't know how bad it's going to be. Um, I also know that uncensor G and the people follow the belief that non violence is is what they want to follow. So you just know, you have regular people of all backgrounds and ages in those protesting crowds, and they're not harming anyone. They're just asking to be recognized. And you know what, they're up against our soldiers with all type of machinery and arms. Set to kill and not just kill but beat people up. So it's like really hard for me to make sense of it. And then how to react to it. And not to get overwhelmed. Because I want to stay clear minded for, if there is something that I can do, then I want to be ready for that.