Transcript: Episode #67: Fight the Power
Following is the full transcript for the interview with 882021, which appeared on August 13, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:01
milliliter Shankar and Kat jhankar coming apart Karma Karma Karma we all know how serious and dreadful the current situation is in Myanmar. And for those of us outside the country, it can be difficult to know how to help. Fortunately, we found a reliable way to get funds to those who need it. And any donations that you give on our platform will now be directed and ideally to help the protesters Just go to Insight myanmar.org slash donation to contribute today. or stay tuned to the end of the episode to hear more options. Thanks for your consideration and now let's get on to the interview that follow me down to insomnia Theresa on as usual very warm up to my PC I'm on pico de Soto Natalia no to Paul daughter night. We are walking in the time before now. We will fire God
May 02:15
version of being Burma by Coco that it's living on sawdust and shrimp paste to see for diamonds. It's being a buena in the bamboo juke thinking how dainty I am. It's being a haystack fire flaring suddenly feeding out swiftly. It's aching for the art from the embrace of the mother. What's your key majority and minus C or minority and major D ceasefire and flat B or C's identity in sharp g? Give me a falsetto let's improvise. No need for harmony. What would you choose? Want? rage or ignorance? defeatism or mal development and increase in viral load or a decrease in internet speed? Sexual preoccupation, or self denial, power cuts or power crazes a bag of rice or an ounce of democracy, myopic blindness, escapist wizardry and alchemy synchronisation of incompatibilities internalization of era concert abilities the Four Noble Truths the four oh the menu is endless. The die has been cast. Your karma is you life short. Suffering tall. Plenty of water. No fish. No fish at all. Hey, good day.
Host 04:56
All right. I'm really pleased to be joined here by eight he's An artists musician that was born and raised in Myanmar and has been making music for around eight years along with that music, some animation and videos for over a decade. And gonna check in with him a bit about his musical background and some of the work he's done during the coup. So, eight. Thanks so much for joining us here.
88 05:20
Thank you for having me.
Host 05:22
Yeah, so let's get right to it. You are some of your music is hip hop rap, which I love. Let's get into how you started to get interested in that medium. What were some of your earliest rap memories and influences of how you fell in love with that art form?
88 05:40
My earliest memory of listening to rap hip hop would be when I picked up a m&m CD, like when I was like, kid, and I didn't even understand the lyrics back then. But I just fell in love with like, the energy of the whole genre. And from then on, I just kind of browse around the internet and found a couple of artists I like and now I'm heavily influenced by artists like Kanye Kendrick Lamar and other underground SoundCloud artists. Like little peep x. Ghost me, etc.
Host 06:14
So at the time that you found encore biomin um, you were in Myanmar at that time?
88 06:19
Yes.
Host 06:20
Yeah. And was it relatively easy to find that kind of music then? Or was it was it difficult to get access?
88 06:26
It was quite easy like no, no, I love like bootleg CDs just in like city Mart
Host 06:31
right I remember that
88 06:33
Yeah, love like CDs Yeah.
Host 06:36
Yeah my first when I first fell in love with hip hop through Tupac all eyes on me that just on your way Yeah, never heard anything like that. It just hit me like a tour de force and you know just got that CD that double album. I think it was made in like, you know, three days he made it right when he got out of prison and there just just went into everything else. So you you started with encore? What tracks on there really called out to you?
88 07:17
I think because the track will just lose it. Now back Back, back. I really like caught caught my attention. I don't like back then. That was just like, the energy of the track, I guess. Because I've never heard like, and that type of music before. Until I yeah, I was listening to Eminem.
Host 07:50
Right? Around that time. You know, I know that early hip hop there was like, sigh sigh I think and help me out who was the other like early rapper? Yep. Yeah. So were those guys doing their stuff around that time? Or Or were you? Did you listen to encore before they were really on the scene? Or what were their styles just too different.
88 08:12
I listened to encore before they were on the scene. And I think like maybe a few years later they they came onto the scene. Like I know Sai Sai has some like Song m&m songs that like he like sang back and like, Grammys. Yeah, so yeah, it's definitely before.
Host 08:37
Right, write that. And that reminds me We were just talking to side effect Darko from side effects. And he was talking about for his genre of indie music and one of the things that he wanted to do and making his kind of music was to be original and how a lot of the music in the early 2000 we're all just kind of they were they were Burmese versions of like 80s and 90s American and British music. And so what was the early hip hop scene? Like was their original hip hop and rap or was it was it somewhat similar that it was just copies just literal translations of the American artists? Or How's that?
88 09:13
Do it definitely some original rap songs that are from Burmese artists. Like Jamie has some really like good original songs. And but I think like during back in the day, at least with the majority of them what like copies say my pass on the show. Right, what
Host 10:03
was some of that early Burmese hip hop that was coming around, say 10 years ago? We're actually I guess I should ask you, what would you date as the origins of Burmese hip hop and real bands and rappers starting to form?
88 10:17
I guess, for Grammy support, maybe the scene like started taking off around? Let me let me think, like around early 2000s. Yeah, I think that's when, like, hip hop or starting to get a name for itself here.
Host 10:34
Yeah. Right. So that was well in advance of where the reform started. So there was hip hop, which is hip hop has traditionally been very political, and yes, very much in raw forms, telling, speaking about the reality in the conditions that people are living in and speaking out against various injustices. And you reference this early Burmese hip hop coming 10 years before there was any freedom in the country. So what was the kind of hip hop that was being made at that time? What were some of the rappers taking some risks and speaking out? Or were they being creative? And kind of speaking between the lines? Or were they just doing more like the garden pop variety and not really going anywhere? controversial?
88 11:15
I mean, definitely, there were artists that were speaking, like, between the lines like not, like because there were a lot of censorship back in the day, and like, they were artists, like speaking around the censorship, but I think the majority of it was, like, just focused on like, put, like, putting out a hit, like, based on like, the censorships, that there were at the time.
Host 11:39
And what were the kinds of messages they were putting out there when they were pushing the envelope a little bit.
88 11:45
I mean, you know, definitely, like, not happy with the political situations during the time. Maybe like, some songs, I forgot what song were like, around like the Safar revolution time, there were songs about the Safar revolution that were being addressed. But not like, like, like point blank, you know, like, like, Yeah.
Host 12:15
Right. And then as the reform started, did that cause a change in the hip hop scene?
88 12:19
Oh, definitely. I think it caused a change in all the scenes. I think people are more open towards like, just posting whatever they want it. And I was, I felt like RTA became a little more free. Like, after. Like, we supposedly got democracy.
Host 12:44
Yeah. So what kinds of new freedoms in art? Did you start to see around that time?
88 12:49
Yeah, definitely. More, more political art, and more art that wouldn't have, like people are more Express, expressing themselves more creatively. From what I saw. Also, I guess, like, people are more accepting of art, from what I saw.
Host 13:23
Right? And then when you look at hip hop, in general, how did you What did you start seeing in the change on the scene of what Burmese rappers started doing around that time?
88 13:32
So I didn't I didn't catch that.
Host 13:34
Oh, in terms of, particularly looking at the hip hop medium, how did that specifically start to change and what the Burmese rappers were doing?
88 13:44
Oh, um, one thing I saw was that I think a lot of like Burmese hip hop artists became more original. And I think this was due to the fact that, like, we had like better access to the internet. And like, you know, we have all these tools to learn from the internet, like YouTube. And I think with that, like, came like a new wave of like, original producers and artists that didn't want to, like, copy other artists and like, make a name off of someone's work. And like, I think, because of like, these reforms, like, we have more like, creativity being shown.
Host 14:29
So with more influences, those influences were then used to try to work on one's art form and with more freedom, or there was more ability with what one can do to express oneself and push the envelope in controversial ways. Definitely. Yeah, did you find there was any instances in the 2000 10s where hip hoppers or rappers were just artists in general push the envelope too far where they they thought there was a kind of freedom and expression but then they got into trouble by going to be Beyond the conventional bounds,
88 15:02
I am sure there was some cases I just can't think of any at the top of my head right now.
Host 15:09
Right? Because this is kind of this is a time when there's this attempt at these freedoms being made. But, you know, there's there's background of so many decades where they haven't been in place. And so yeah, it's a kind of tentative step forward, step back. And what I'm asking as well, because I read in a recent podcast, I reference this incident from the 2000 10s. I'm not sure if you knew of it, it was where there was an art exhibition. And it was the artists were given a theme, these were all local artists. And they were given a theme of highlighting some of the problems of pollution and young gone. And one artist drew a picture of a traditional historical Buddha, sitting in meditation in modern day young gone, and he was wearing a gas mask to illustrate how bad the pollution had been. I'm not sure if you saw this painting or knew about the controversy. But it became quite controversial to depict the Buddha in in a non traditional way, simply wearing a gas mask to highlight the pollution. And there were immediate calls for censorship and even punishment of the artist by the people, not by any authorities, but by the people for desecrating the religion. So, to me, that was a really interesting moment of how these tentative freedoms were kind of being pushed forward and then push back.
88 16:27
Yeah, definitely. I mean, like, what is that? Here is quite a touchy subject. And like, people really get offended, if you like, use the image of Buddha and like, ways they deem like, is not respectable?
Host 16:40
What are your thoughts on that in terms of where religion comes into play with creative expression?
88 16:49
Like, personally, I feel like, everything should be able to be criticized, if you're not, like, if you don't like it. And that includes a religion as well. Personally, I'm a Buddhist myself, but I don't really believe in like the spiritual side, I believe in the lessons that I've learned from Buddhism, such as karma and meditation. Yeah. But I don't believe in like taking that extreme measure to like sensor. sensor art.
Host 17:29
Right. And then, yeah, then there was that really famous case that brought music and Buddhism into direct conflict? Where there was that I think it was like a nightclub. And it was like a, an Australian or a new one. Yeah, yeah. Tell, tell us about that. Tell us what happened?
88 17:45
Oh, yeah, I basically, I think, like, he used like an image of Buddha or like him, he named a barber apart or something along those lines. And then he he basically used the name of Buddha to promote his bar and like, people got really offended by that.
Host 18:01
Yeah, we got put in prison for the better part of a year. Yeah. And it wasn't just the name, I think he had the image of the Buddha with with headphones, you know, around his ears. Yeah, show that. And that was really interesting, contrasting that example, with the artistic example. Because I think the first example, you know, that is a little crass, and it's commercial. And I do understand why it would offend the sensibilities. The latter example of just highlighting pollution by showing that even if the Buddha were to come and live in present day young gone, that we've so destroyed the environment in the air, that even the Buddha would need a gas mask to breathe. And, you know, that was that, to me, just really seemed like a, an artistic expression of trying to and not even anything that was against the Buddha or the Buddhist teachings or Buddhism itself, but really just highlighting how even the most revered figure among those Buddhists in our society would not breathe healthily. And what we've done to the environment today.
88 19:01
Yeah, definitely, definitely. I do agree with your points. I, I think that case went to too far. But yeah, the bar thing like, you know, yeah, I can understand why people got mad over it.
Host 19:16
Right. So you reference yourself as being as not being into some parts of Buddhism, but the two parts you reference that you are into our karma and meditation practice, can you share a bit more about how your beliefs in karma have manifested in your life or even in your artwork?
88 19:34
I mean, for karma, I believe that you know, what goes around comes around and I, I just want to treat everybody how I want to be treated. And that's how I go about with my everyday life. I try to be good to others and have good come upon me.
Host 19:51
So it's like the golden
88 19:52
rule, the golden rule, basically.
Host 19:55
And if you if you've done meditation in your background, have you gone to courses or certain traditions Like you're in,
88 20:00
I mean, yeah, I meditate here and there I've been. I've been like a monk when I was a child, which is like a pretty common thing for Burmese males to go through before the age of 13, they just go to a monastery for like, a weekend, become a monk. I mean, I was basically, I, okay, I wasn't forced, but like, it's just like a really common thing to do. Like, it's like a rite of passage almost for Burmese males to go to, like, you know, a monastery and like, just become a monk. And like, the meditation just happened while I was there. And then I taught me how to meditate. And I just had to wake up I think, like, 5am every morning. And you wake up, you meditate. You eat breakfast, you walk in, like you, you go get like food, to donations. And then after, before they after 12, you can't eat anymore. And you kind of just like, meditate throughout the whole day.
Host 21:10
And what meditation that they teach you, was it like the slow walking or observing the belly rising and falling? Or what? What was the exact the
88 21:21
exact technique I learned there was just to sit still. And kind of just like, focus on my breath. So yeah.
Host 21:30
And you've continued with that afterwards?
88 21:33
Yes.
Host 21:34
Yeah. Right. That was that mahaska? That was the mahasi susmita. Era.
88 21:39
Yes, I believe.
Host 21:40
Yeah, the historic one. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So um, right. So getting, so it's great to hear a bit about your background in music and artistic sensibility, like in the 2000 10s. And bit of where Burmese hip hop came from. So moving to February 1, and post coup, what have you seen about the role and the importance that art in general has been playing this year?
88 22:09
Okay, so art, I believe, is like, the driving force behind all these protests as an I feel like art light, kind of motivates people to protest more, and shows other people that they're not alone in their struggles. And I feel like that's important at a time like this, when everything just feels like it's like completion. And, you know, like, it's, it's good to hear someone else is going through the same struggles as you and it's good to feel that you're not alone.
Host 22:46
And what kinds of art Have you seen this year since the coup?
88 22:50
Definitely, like protests are like alive. music, music videos that highlight, you know, the situation that's happening here. If, if you checked out the rap against genta page, that this this multi Alliance rap that I think was done pretty well, which I helped edit photo video. It's like, a bunch of rappers from the milk tea Alliance from like Taiwan, Thailand, India, Myanmar, and they come together to rap about political injustice is happening in countries.
Host 23:31
Right. So can you tell us a bit about what is this represents the junta? How was it formed? And what's the purpose? What are the activities going on with it?
88 23:39
So that began as a hunter is a group of just artists, graffiti artists, dancers, hip hop artists, that basically come together and release work that I rap against Toronto. We're all like, I guess, online friends. There's like someone that leads the rap against Hunter. But like, basically, we'll all our friends and like, we kind of just help each other out and just release stuff under this one, I guess, label type thing?
Host 24:20
Yes. Right. So it's very, it's a very diverse collection. Yeah. all different kinds of art forms that Yeah. Wow. That's, that's really cool. And do people submit their own independent things through here? Are there collaborations that take place?
88 24:31
Yeah, the collaboration, as I was saying, was like the multi Alliance collaboration, that's one of their collaborations I'm aware of, personally, like I submitted my stuff as 8820212 rap against one time, like, that's where I really stemmed from. And then other stuff in store as well, that I know that they're working on.
Host 24:54
Great, yeah, so that's the name you've taken this this six digit label. What What is the meaning of these six digits?
88 25:03
I mean, it's like the two important for me states that, you know, the 1988 uprising, and now I guess 2021 uprising.
Host 25:17
So you took those years to put them together to form your, your musical name.
88 25:22
Yes. Yeah. And
Host 25:24
what do you see as similar in these two uprisings? And also, what do you see is different?
88 25:31
Okay, what I see similar is like, definitely, I feel like the military are using like the same old tricks. I feel like, you know, like, cuz my parents generation, they've been through the 1988 uprising and stuff. And they, they tell me about how like, this 2021 uprising is quite similar in the ways that the end the techniques that the military used to intimidate us. But I feel like the difference between the two dates would be that now we have a powerful tool, which is social media and, and the just the internet in general, and I feel like through that we can have, we can plan out our defense or like our uprising a bit better. And I am hoping that we will win one day. Yeah.
Host 26:30
Right. You also referenced that this series of numbers is not just referring to dates, but also has another meaning. Can you tell us about that?
88 26:40
Oh, yes. So this series, a number is also like, it's the hex number. column number four, like dried blood, what it's like red is the hex color for red, kind of like dark red, and I it, it reminds me of dried blood. And I've seen like a lot of images of dried blood throughout, like February 1 and onwards. And that's, it's kind of like a tribute to everyone that's died because of the coup.
Host 27:11
Yeah, so this is kind of like a color that, unfortunately, a seared in the mind. And so yeah, that color then becomes part of the name. And speaking about images that are seared in the mind. You're not just doing songs, which we'll get to in a moment, but you're also doing videos and animations, which encourage listeners to check out. And you had mentioned that part of your practice and how you put these videos together, is based on some of these images that you can't get out of your mind. So can you say a little about what those images are? And how you went from these things that you saw that were traumatizing and troubling, and then you actually took them and repurpose them for your own music?
88 27:54
Definitely. I mean, first off, like, I've never seen so many dead bodies in my life, like, every time I would scroll through Instagram or Facebook, especially during like the beginning, like, like around maybe like March, April, I would see so many dead bodies, on my feet. And it just like, angered me, like it angered me so much that I wanted to put it out into a form of art that I can use to express my anger, basically.
Host 28:28
Right, are there particular images that have stuck in your mind more than others?
88 28:36
111 video that I saw that really stuck with me is like, there was a video of this cop and he's surrounded by other cops and this this one cop he has a gun out and a rifle out. I think he's like, he shot a target and the police around him sorry, cheering for like, indicating, like, maybe like, you know, he hit a body. And then like they all ran towards the body. And it just like sickened me to see how they were using like, human beings at like life. target practice.
Host 29:12
Yeah, yeah, I don't even know what to say to that. And I don't know what it must be like living in a society where you see this mentality playing out in front of you people that you you thought were part of the collective society before however, you know, not to be naive or to we've known what the military is, has been, you know, now and before, but this is another level to see that you have people among your society that are carrying out organized terror and murders and that are carrying over it. I can't imagine the effect that would cause
88 29:47
Yeah, definitely like it. Yeah, every day. Like I just feel angry and sad, but also hopeful that, you know, hopefully this is the last time that any of Let's hear we'll go through this.
Host 30:03
And I think what's interesting, you know, when you talk again about the difference between 88. And now, this example, this anecdote we just talked about here, it's kind of a microcosm that you're taking these images and these videos that are deeply troubling to you that are traumatizing, you know, that are bringing out pain and sadness and anger and everything else. And you're repurposing them in a matter of days into an art form. And this is not something that I really ever saw before. And I think that part of that can definitely be technology that that sharing is easier. And there's more technological means. But that can't be the only thing going on. Because there are non technological forms of art that you can do at any time. I think this also points to a different kind of attitude in relation to this that in the past these incidences, the trauma would cause a kind of silencing and repression and wanting to and submission almost. And now, these are not the responses that we're seeing, or at least this is one of the things I'm thinking is I hear how you and others have responded versus how we've seen responses, and oh, seven and 88. But what's your thoughts on that?
88 31:13
Yeah, I would, yeah, I, I think going back to the internet point, I really feel like we all are connected through this, like shared trauma. And like, in that sense, we're encouraged and we have we get courage from each other. And that's why I'm here. Like, you can see a lot of these type of art forms online. And also, it's just easier to share. Sure, nowadays, yeah.
Host 31:41
Right, and spread of information. I mean, before there might be 100 students that were killed. And even in Myanmar, they would hear about that over the course of weeks and even years to come. What exactly happened? And
88 31:52
yeah, exactly, yeah.
Host 31:53
Not that we get perfect information now, but it's certainly there's not only are we hearing what's happening, but we're seeing test, you know, we're hearing testimonials getting pictures and videos. And sometimes it's not all completely accurate when it's happening in the moment. But it's certainly painting a more immediate picture of not just what happened, but the response to what happened in ways that have never occurred before.
88 32:14
Yeah, definitely. And like, you know, like, during these protests, like, I mean, I'm I want protest, like, because of this fast bit of information. I, we know, like when sometimes we know beforehand, when like, the military is going to show up, and we all just need that once. And like, in that sense, it's a little bit safer than maybe it would have been at eight.
Host 32:36
So do you think that the people and the protesters are a little bit ahead of the military in terms of how to use technology and art for its benefit?
88 32:46
Definitely. 100% I feel, but I feel very proud of like my country for that. And I feel hopeful that, you know, I feel hopeful knowing that the fight isn't over. like cotton, seeing like these art forms coming up.
Host 33:05
Right, so the fight not being over is directly related to this art form, encouraging the morale to keep on
88 33:12
Yes, yeah.
Host 33:14
Yeah. Right. And going back to your videos, you also have aim for a kind of a minimalistic style, can you share more about how you have formed that style and the reasons for it?
88 33:26
Oh, so basically, I just, I just wanted to get straight to the point. Like, with my videos. Also, in my videos, I rap in English, because I already feel like there's a lot of Burmese hip hop, that's encouraging the Morales of people here. But I wanted to rap in English because I wanted to share our stories to like a Western audience or like an international audience. And I use like, very minimal colors, because I wanted it just to be straight to the point. Very like, the most like, straight to the point footages I can find I just compiled it into one product and Yeah.
Host 34:13
Right. So there's a couple of songs that you produced, and we'll listen to them here. But because the videos and the animation and the color scheme that you've used in it is also so important with your art, we definitely encourage listeners to go on YouTube and check this out themselves so they can just see the actual videos of it. But let's take a listen to some of the songs which because they're in English for listeners can also understand so the first one, we can listen to his song called leek who 199 can you set this up for us what the song is about.
88 34:48
So "Lee Coup" is basically about the coup. Lee in Burmese is basically "dick" but like if you combine it with another word, it's like it kind of means like Fuck, like, Fuck the coup, Lee coup. So it's basically my thoughts on just like, what's happening with the coup and like, basically just me expressing, like, Oh, I can't believe this is happening and me expressing by my views towards the coup and my anger towards the coup.
Host 35:25
Right? And then what what is the significance of the 199? Okay, so
88 35:29
the 199 like I said, you know, lee is like, fuck, and 199 is the number you use here to call call for the police. It's not like nine si 911 but in Myanmar is 199. And basically what I'm trying to say what the song is that before we we used to depend on like the police to help us get out of trouble. But you know, like, who do we call right now when like the police are the ones giving us the trouble? Like, just giving us hell on earth? is like this. There's no one to depend on but ourselves. Yes. Um, so basically, you know, I was upset about the coop happening. And I, I look, I took a lot of key moments from the coop and try to think about imagery and lyrics that will match it. For example. I have this one, I saw this one video about just like a monk having like, I think like a crowbar or like some sort of like stick, and just going around cracking windows, which was basically set up by the military and I, I addressed this by saying about how like, these fake prophets as planning hate, and the military is basically calling it religion. And, and this is like, my anger towards like, the military just using religion as kind of like a tool of control. And a tool to like, say like, Oh, yeah, what we're doing is right. And I have like, more columns like this on the on the song that I use that I wrote in the song.
Host 37:27
Right. And of course, what they're doing they're not military is not only using religion as a tool for control of the people. But if you flip that on its head and the inverse, it's also perverting the very essence of that religion itself.
88 37:40
Exactly. Yeah.
Host 37:41
So yeah, I mean, when you talk about like your experiences at mahasi and your the way you grew up with understanding of cause and effect and karma and your time as a monk and the meditation you learned at the monastery there this is not only is there perversion, controlling for trying to control the people through these means, but it's also doing incredible damage to these beautiful teachings.
88 38:06
Exactly.
Host 38:09
Right, so with that, let's go ahead and take a listen to Likud.
88 39:38
And that's basically what the song is about.
Host 39:42
Right? I'm hearing that I can't help but think of NWA as fuck the police.
88 39:46
Yeah. I mean, like, you know, that basically saying fuck the police, a deaf I. I mean, I didn't make the immediate connection to it. I just I first made it and I'm like, okay, you know, like this is kind of similar to the message of NWA as police.
Host 40:08
Right? Okay, well, let's listen to
88 40:11
paranoid one double nine on my mind. They want your volume on Windows 10. Tango.
40:43
On My Mind.
41:12
Hey, guys, country, Dog
41:17
Day combat out of flock
41:23
arising out.
Host 42:03
All right, so that was lead 199. And that's a song referring to the fact that when Burmese today are trying to call the emergency number for help, those authorities that they would normally be picking up the phone are the ones that are actually terrorizing them and that there's, there's no safety anywhere, this social contract has been flipped on its head. So in doing this, and after releasing the song have you had is there been any kind of response that you've heard or critical feedback?
88 42:36
So for for Lee Chua, Lee one night, I actually had it shown in museums in Australia. Oh, yeah. So me, I'm near March, I don't know if you're familiar with the March. So basically, his Museum, which sadly, is closed now, this used to be like a museum that promotes like modern Burmese art. And they basically got in touch with some Australian museums, and they showcase my work. Lee Cooper, Lee 199 at the museum.
Host 43:14
Oh, that's great. So have you heard from the Australian Museum goers what they're what they think of it.
88 43:20
This is a strong piece of work that really details what what happens. What's happening, Mr. Yeah.
Host 43:28
All right. So in these songs that you've been producing since the coup, do you have any concern for your personal safety?
88 43:36
Definitely have concerns for ICT. That's, that's the whole reason I am using a new alias to release my work and also why I am releasing stuff under rap against Hunter. Because I know a lot of friends that I in jail because of these political activities. And I know this is gonna be a long fight. And I don't want to compromise my identity. Because I want to keep fighting. Right, you reference that
Host 44:08
your rap is in English, I assume you're going to continue in rapid English going forward so that you can be heard and understood abroad. Is there anything you could tell us about some of the projects you're working on now?
88 44:22
Definitely, I I'm, I have upcoming song called I don't have a name for it. Yeah, maybe it'll be called v m a l, which is an old male like the bass fish head did the coup. So I might have a song about that. That would a friend coming up.
Host 44:43
All right, great. And you reference how you're doing a lot of your art in English. There's also a lot of hip hop that's coming out in Burmese for our international audience. They, some people might have heard some of those tracks, but it's much harder to understand and especially when it comes to hip hop because Hip Hop, traditionally just the word play and the the innuendos and the cultural understandings needed to really be able to understand hip hop. I mean, you take American hip hop songs, I played them for my mom, she wouldn't be able to understand anything, just because there's so embedded in a certain kind of culture and language. So what can you tell us about the Burmese hip hop art forms that are coming out since the coup? What? How are they expressing themselves? What are they saying? What? What language are they bringing to their expression?
88 45:30
Okay, so the type of hip hop coming out these days is definitely all like, all based on like the crew and the experiences of the coup. I feel like, especially right now, people don't want to be releasing any sort of other form of art form that isn't cool related, because it kind of it doesn't feel right. Especially right now, like a lot of people are struggling, a lot of people are dying. And it doesn't feel right to like, maybe like throw like a party banger or something. Sure. Yeah. And yeah, a lot of the songs I see is basically just like, protesting the military and expressing the views on like the cool.
Host 46:20
Right, and certainly, there's a power in hip hop. He knows we talked about earlier, hip hop has you talk about when you first heard Eminem's encore For me it was Tupac all eyes on me, there's just a raw force and power in not only the language that's being used, but the expression of the beat of how it's been said, and so much of it historically, is talked about injustice and oppression and reclaiming one's own rights and freedoms and whatever form they're being infringed on. So in all of the art forms, that one is producing now, hip hop, to me seems like such a powerful medium to be able to just unadulterated be able to express what one is feeling with it. So I wonder your thoughts on what what you're seeing of, of the potential of what hip hop can be doing in this current moment?
88 47:16
Definitely. But yeah, like you said, hip hop has always had, like, a political history. And I feel like it is, well, in my opinion, it is the best art type of like, music to express these struggles that we're having these struggles with oppression and all that. And I feel like, I'm just gonna reiterate the points I have before, but I really do feel like hip hop, or just any type of music can really feel feel to help you feel motivated to fight back. And when me personally, like, hip hop has so much energy that whenever I listen to a track, like distinction, like the military, or whatever, I I feel, I feel very energized and motivated. And I'm like, Okay, you know what, I got to make another song, I gotta, I gotta release another song about the military so that other people can feel motivated to fight back as well.
Host 48:22
Right? So what do you think is the role of the artist in this revolution going forward, because on one hand, you've had to take a new name, you're concerned about your safety, there's, there's no safety anywhere right now, in terms of what's going on if there's no celebrity standing of whether it's humanitarian work, or being an artist, or whatever, that protects one. And it's usually the other way around when is exposed in that way. And so artists have to balance their own personal safety with a kind of courage artistic courage to what they're trying to produce and to keep producing and especially produced during those lower abs because this is a war of attrition. And one of the things that is trying to be built and attacked on either side is morale is the morale, the momentum, the belief and the and the feeling and that morale can go up and down on both sides. And we've certainly seen on the people side there's been times of high morale and there's been times of a lot of kind of periods of collective hopelessness and despair and, and such and that's where the artists can really come in. But as you said, this is this is going to be going on for some time and artists have their own personal safety to also be able to manage and of course everyone has to has to live and the economy is not doing so well right now. So this is a lot for this is a heavy role for the Burmese artists to take on at this time. What are your thoughts on how the these incredible younger Burmese artists are stepping into this moment? And what it is they can do to Continue to play a role while respecting this balance as things go forward.
88 50:05
Yeah, what they can continue to do is obviously, you know, continue to release all, all the songs that they have. It's really important to keep the people spirit Hi. And also, I would really recommend people to stay as anonymous as possible. Because some artists, they call them like, they are anonymous, and they take a stance and it it really the military grace for them. And it's it's like scary to know that, like, you can just you can get arrested or killed just for expressing yourself.
Host 50:49
Yeah, right. And that's what you know, the Burmese artists, you mentioned a bit about the milk tea Alliance and some of the hip hop that happened through collaboration with artists overseas. Have there been other overseas support from artists that you've seen since the coup?
88 51:06
Definitely, I've seen especially like the hashtag milty. Alliance, that's our like, just a multi lines in general, if you if you check out the hashtag on Twitter, that we understand each other struggles, you know, we were all going through this period of oppression. And it's, it's really nice to see that everyone is so supportive of each other's struggles.
Host 51:29
And for people listening to this for artists in other countries, what message would you like to give to them? What could what further support could be shown from people with creative skills, whatever those are, that are in places of safety and able to use their voice don't have to be anonymous? What do you think they could be doing to support your struggle now?
88 51:52
Definitely, you know, it's great to talk about the situation that we have right now. Great to raise awareness about the situation, it would be because awareness could lead to donations that happen. And right now, it was going through a really horrible time. And I feel like we could use a lot of donations right now. I said this before, but the milk tea Alliance, rap really made me hopeful because it show that you know, we're not alone in the struggle. There's like other countries that are going through this same type of struggle. That's one of them. Another one was, during the protests, I saw like, a lot of they were actually a lot of performances under like, the minigun bridge with a lot of young artists that just come together and do anti coupe art. And there was this moment where like, there was a band thing. And everyone was singing along to an anti coupe song. And in that moment, I just really felt unified with like, my people and
Host 53:49
right, yeah, that's, that's, that's really beautiful to think about. And as this goes on, I think it really highlights the role that artists can play. And I think when the crew first broke in February, and March, we just those were the month of large protests. And it just seemed that to show displeasure and resistance, everyone needed to be on the front line, everyone needed to be out. And that no longer became safe, and there are still protests going on. But people have learned that there's ways of resisting in other ways than being on the front line, that everyone has their own talents and backgrounds and things that they can do. And that's true, whether one is inside the country or outside the country in terms of how one can be involved and engaged. And I think that as this has gone on, I think the Burmese artists community has definitely risen up and I've seen has seen an embrace the role that they can continue to carry as times gets tough and in some ways that can be counterintuitive because you can you know, pessimists can say, well, artists aren't actually doing anything but you can't really measure the as you've said, the morale and the expression and the unifying sense of like when you when you hear see really good art the artists has tapped into something that's inside you that you didn't really know was there and that they're able to put some expression to something of how you feel or how you think that, that you almost couldn't do yourself. And so this is an incredibly invaluable tool that can be provided by the artist community.
88 55:20
Yeah, definitely.
Host 55:23
Alright, so it's been great chatting with you about this. And before we close, I should say, after we close, we're going to be treated to the same song that we heard from the beginning of the podcast dictators must die is the name of the track by this rap against the who've done. This is this milk tea Alliance collaboration that you've referenced, where we have five to six different rappers in different countries around the region that are rapping in English as well as their native languages, and are speaking out against the current injustice taking place. So this is what we will close out with. Before we do so can you share a bit about how this came together and some of the meanings behind what these rappers are saying because in when they're rapping in their native languages, I know there's subtitles on the video, but listeners on the podcast might not understand at all.
88 56:15
So this collaboration came together through the rap against hunter collective. They contacted each each rapper from the respective countries and everybody just sent like a verse or two, and then they combine it all together into one final product. Most of these lyrics, you know, talk about this oppression that they've had from the government, or military and some of it talk about how these politicians lie to them. And they don't care about the people. And and I remember one point in particular, India rapped about COVID. And how like, it's, it's not they're not helping the situation at all. And I that would that I felt on a really like, personal level because your lawyer is going through this bad COVID crisis as well. And without getting any help from the military, or basically, getting oxygen supplies cut out as well. So yeah, with the song, a lot of the struggles and oppressions these rappers rap about, I felt on a personal level, because we're going through that as well.
Host 57:43
That's wonderful. Thanks for sharing that. And thanks for all the time that you spent today. I know you stayed up late there on your end to have this interview and really appreciate that really appreciate learning more about your background and hip hop scene. And with that, let's go and listen to dictators must die. And thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us.
88 58:03
No worries, thank you for having
58:15
me. What am I gonna do we are done under the gun is a visit Yeah, and there's a yada, yada, yada, yada, yada yada now.
Host 58:29
After today's discussion, it should be clear to everyone just how dire the situation is in Myanmar. We are doing our best to shine a light on the ongoing crisis. And we thank you for taking the time to listen. If you found today's talk of value, please consider passing it along to friends in your network. And because our nonprofit is now in a position to transfer funds directly to the protest movement, please also consider letting others know that there is now a way to give the support to the most vulnerable and to those who are specially impacted by this organized state terror. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are resisting the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form of currency or transfer method. Everything goes immediately and directly to funding those local communities who need it most. 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And I also invite you to take a look at our new nonprofit organization at better burma.org. There was certainly a lot to talk about in this episode, and we'd like to encourage listeners to keep the discussion going. Make a POST request specific questions and join in on discussions currently going on. On the Insight Myanmar podcast Facebook group. You're also most welcome to follow our Facebook, Instagram and Twitter accounts by the same name. If you're not on social media, feel free to message us directly at info at Insight myanmar.org. Or if you'd like to start up a discussion group on another platform, let us know and we can share that form here. Finally, we're open to suggestions about guests or topics for future episodes. So if you have someone or something in mind, please do be in touch. We would like to take this time to thank everyone who made this podcast possible. Currently, our team consists of two sound engineers, Mike pink and Martin combs. 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88 1:05:28
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