Transcript: Episode #60: The View from France

Following is the full transcript for the interview with Thiri Nandar, which appeared on June 28, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.

00:16

Do the motion ready to set are they connected the eyes short Crisco yum yum oh you're gonna fail so don't proceed she's ready to show the walkie talkie or dodging gala has already insulated they communicate your liquids you don't get locked in for the elec doll don't use let's see if I'm gonna need water to live on dentistry is gonna play a

 

01:29

instrumental

 

01:31

role Mays awful lot to replay we'll get to long problems see we can be flailing because he didn't enjoy the external platform he received the good news yada yada leg kick them and look up to soak up on all these levels coup d'etat later it is. This will be a professional demo for Facebook. Get the video course when I tap in your bed and let the weather make literally beat up yourself go positive. According to the festival if you're just getting started. This was for American democracy, the security poverty the social issue that we saw that Bluetooth Wi Fi buffet without question.

 

03:24

Currently we're doing the campaign by hitting pots and pans. And we have our song and then song. And I think we have planned to do it every night. Until we get we gain back the power back to the people.

 

Host  03:46

You're listening to a special version of the Insight Myanmar podcast covering the military coup Indian soon protest movement that has developed during this crisis. We're ramping up the production of not only podcast episodes, but also our blog and other social media platforms. So we invite you to check these out as well. All the other projects that had been in progress prior to February have since been positive definitely to focus entirely on this emergency. But for now, let's get into our show.

 

04:28

Season kneeboards founder democracy helium Nigeria Coco sama see bozar Genie by chum Allah tala Yuna number of Hindi Lulu Oh Jo mobile new social media Gautam Bo Teto lotto Jonah dogana Zegna Melo para la colina they've been in a way, but good at Naval near Alma de se Kasama gobind sadan Dima Milena mashanda Allah Medina Yama musea qui RT learning levier my sin Baba Liaquat About de nada about winter Jasmine Mario mocha yonder motiva Bella Leia Lambo net parka, poor job yasu jo tala autumn Yama de may be our presolar nizo doing a comment Alo Nala la concerning Zeebo commission Pepe CC and regal PSSA. needed a thurgau de cantiello facial ninja Oh Quadri never shatavari a yubo gala be sambava meevo genre, three copper, the big timber a Nyah Aloo body ko Ananda vomit, cooking up democracy dishes in my very own kitchen by Google that what should I cook for you people? You can afford to be a glutton if you can afford a grain of rice. I will curry your revolution with coriander. Simmer the mass movement until it gets very very soft, reproach ugly tender. I won't allow it to thicken, or it will be tasteless. Turn social media into tomb and lemon salad. I wouldn't go on and show with my three little fingers. I will stir democracy doll with the longest digit I possess. Let me pour out all my fish sauce feelings. bloodstains on the kitchen floor off no consequence. it's unavoidable. I am the executive chef. Am I not a better cook than your mum. I can ride especially for horse. yodeling like a hyena under a squeaky buffalo cart. The situation is plain and simple. An elephant crumpling a paddy in broad daylight. Not just all the five Abbott's and the Sangha mandopop were overthrown. Even the Reclining Buddha was knocked down flat in the process. It's unavoidable. You happen to be harvesting frogs in a holy basket. The idiot lizards ash and jacket will collect nothing but ash. Don't take the burglar creeping up on you from behind for your husband. Please help yourself to brussel sprouts and liberty fries. Now let me serve up more bromides as well as my oily rags. I will investigate fraudulent shopping lists while you work up your appetite. I have cooked with pots and pans bent out of shape in your hunger game protests. After the state of emergency is over, there will be a new election in the kitchen. I will then transfer power to my human aliou party for our people.

 

08:05

Day. Hey, by the way,

 

08:19

a good day.

 

Thiri Nandar  08:46

Okay, so my name is Terry Nanda. And I'm 32 years old, Dumbo bommies woman who was born and grew up in Yama, and I'm a Buddhist. And to be emphasized, I'm not like a traditional Buddhist who was born in Buddhist family and have to follow the family religions. I'm more like some someone was following the teachings of Buddha with really believing in Buddha teaching. And for my work background, I work in many fields like teaching profession tourism. translator I work in in many NGOs for the development fee, and research and other development project. And I grew up in a very traditional family in Myanmar. And it's always a bit challenging. But I ended up married with a Frenchman and I moved to France here in here in France in 2019. Now, it's been nearly over two years. I'm in France. And now I'm in France. Yes, I'm there. So this is my back me. Yeah.

 

Host  09:53

Yeah. Great. Great. Thanks. Thanks for sharing that. So you've been in France for a couple of years. How is that adjustment Ben? In terms of culture and society, it's a very different kind of place in Myanmar.

 

Thiri Nandar  10:05

If for me, it's not too much different because before I came here, I work with a French company for like, nearly four years. So I'm bit of a family with the can say French culture. But still, there's some shocking culture when I arrived here, like, for a summer when you there's a lot of procedure in France, to get one paper to apply. And something's official documents. Yeah, it gave me a lot of headache. But yeah, I'm still surviving here.

 

Host  10:38

Right? What's the thing you miss most from Myanmar?

 

Thiri Nandar  10:40

Or the food? A lot?

 

Host  10:44

So you're not a big fan of French food?

 

Thiri Nandar  10:46

No, I really find that with the French food also better, you know, just what is missing the spice? Because in French, they say, it's too spicy. But for me, it's not spicy at all.

 

Host  10:59

Right? What's the food you miss most from home?

 

Thiri Nandar  11:01

Yeah, I made this bite mohinga. It's kind of noodle soup.

 

Host  11:06

Yeah, so you mentioned a bit in your introduction, just about your Buddhist background, you and you made a differentiation between the traditional way that you're you were raised and your parents followed. And that that's not necessarily the way that describes your Buddhist practice, but that the Buddhist teachings are very important to you. And Buddha, as a spiritual teacher is still very important. So what shape where you raised him following the Buddhist teachings, and how has that changed as you've grown older, and your relationship to the teachings has perhaps also changed as you've matured?

 

Thiri Nandar  12:32

Like I mentioned, because in your mom, most of the people and they are traditional Buddhists is true, which means like, they I was born in the British family, and they say, Okay, my father and my grandmother, I British, so I will be Buddhist. And after they follow all the traditional things, and they are not bad for me, I'm more like, I grew up in a family and I have,  we have a one monk we can say like a family doctor, or we can say family monk, and he was teaching me rather than like, you have to follow and you you have to follow that. Rather than that he teaching why you have to follow? Why would I say that? And what is the correct way? In Buddhism, we say don't drink alcohol. And he didn't say you, you you don't drink alcohol, but he say more like why you shouldn't drink alcohol. And he explained with the reasons and and also in sometimes in Buddhism, and you can see some are connected with their tradition. Buddha doesn't say don't cut your hair on Wednesday, is not religion is more like tradition. So for me, I I'm not following this kind of traditional things, my more following what Buddha is really saying.

 

Host  13:00

Yeah. So it sounds like the family monk that taught you from a young age encouraged more of a critical thought relationship to the teachings rather than just blindly following what was said, and some some of that is customs and traditions from his, from the scriptures, but it's all kind of mixed together. And it sounds like he had more of a critical mindset approach to understanding the value and purpose for why one was encouraged to do this or not do that.

 

Thiri Nandar  13:30

Yeah, you can say I have a good teacher, like a teacher, Mark. And also my father is a good teacher for that. Yes.

 

Host  13:38

And were they teaching you in a particular tradition or a particular lineage? Where what styles methodology or practice were they coming from?

 

Thiri Nandar  13:48

Mostly the manga, he just say to meditate everyday. He doesn't ask me like, you know, to say their prayers every three time but if I time but a lot like your traditional one, he teach me how to live in life, with with regulation with what kind of rules and regulations and also he teach me how to do meditation. Meditation is more like to control like to control yourself, not like to reach some level or something like that. more practical ways. Yeah.

 

Host  14:21

So what style of meditation does he teach you?

 

Thiri Nandar  14:24

Just to breathe in, breathe out, and more concentrating on the breath, the breath and calming yourself and you don't need to. Don't think about the others. And don't think about the other situation right now. Just concentrate on one thing to make your mind peaceful. This is the basic one he thought he taught me. Yeah.

 

Host  14:45

So it sounds like mostly an autopilot practice.

 

Thiri Nandar  14:47

Yeah, yes. All right. Is that right? Yeah,

 

Host  14:51

that's great. So then since you've been in France, and you're away from your home Burmese Buddhist community, have you been able to connect with Different Buddhist communities there are do you have you been able to mean your practice your Buddhist practice? Or how has that been trying to bring your your Buddhist teachings into a country that's not Buddhist?

 

Thiri Nandar  15:10

In, in France? No, I haven't been contact with any organization yet. I mean, it's been two years. I'm here in France, but honestly, even I, it's only I know a few permits here. And, and there's one place near my my in law house is better, because of COVID is close everything. So I don't have a chance to go to any meditation center yet. They stop accepting people. Yeah. Right. Right.

 

Host  15:43

So you were living in France, you pick quite a time to move there soon after coming in. You had a global pandemic that hit and had you stuck indoors, I assume. And then just as the pandemic was starting to get better worldwide, we had this terrible February 1. military coup in Myanmar. So what was it like living halfway around the world and Europe as you were following what was happening in your homeland from far away?

 

Thiri Nandar  16:09

First wonder when I heard that the coop is happening, I really can't believe and I was so panic. And I couldn't sleep at all like for one week, like I got, I was always with the phone. And I want to know what is happening there. How's my family? How's my relative? What is the duration there? It was so shock. It's I can't believe that.  When I heard the news. Yeah. We're back for like a one week I can't sleep at all. And like after when we I have a notification from my phone as saying that. Yeah, your screen time for last week is nearly 24 Hour per day. So after I saw that notification, I said, Okay, if I go in like this, I will fall down. So they need me. I want to do something for them. So I reduced my screen time and inside. I try to be a bit calm down.

 

Host  17:03

Yeah. How and how did you try to calm down?

 

Thiri Nandar  17:06

At least I try to sleep at night not to be. But normally when I sleep I switch off internet I I put silent mode. But But now I sleep better I stayed my internet is on I put the sound in case there's something happened and my family wants to call me.

 

Host  17:26

Right? Yeah, it's a different world with a different set of rules that you can't just shut off as you could before all of this because at any moment something can be happening from someone that we care about and wanting to get that update from them. So So with that, I guess for for you, for me, for many of us outside we don't really have nights of good sleep anymore because I don't know about the timezone in France, at least in America. Late Night is right when me and more are starting to wake up. So just as my day is finishing another day and starting and I as I start to wind down then all the messages and the phone calls news and everything start pouring in. So it's definitely been a lesson for me of how to manage that and how to protect my own mental space and physical health with you know, when when there's this unpredictability of news, hitting us at any moment.

 

Thiri Nandar  18:18

Yeah, yes. It's a bit hard to come to balance to your life here and the life there and your mind and your your thinking or your mind or your thinking out there. And you have to you have to live here also the family here and then it's a bit hard to manage. Like you mentioned your you I started afraid to wake up with something some notification from my, from my phones. Yeah, it's a bit hard.

 

Host  18:47

I don't know about you. But I've had instances where I've been so deep into some conversation or project or assistance or whatever it is that I suddenly and I might not go outside for, you know, a day or more on end because I'm just so focused on what that work is. And I walk outside and suddenly I kind of forget which country I'm in because I'm I'm so focused in the southern world. I don't know if you've heard anything like that.

 

Thiri Nandar  19:11

Yes, I feel like and when I go out, especially with my in laws, family, and sometimes I don't know where I am because they are speaking in French. And in when we are eating the family dinner, I can follow the conversation at all. And I was seeing that my father face in my face, you know, like, Well, my father is not here. With here is kind of sometime I have my husband have to ask me. Are you okay, where are you? Like, yeah, it's happened to me also is a bit hard. Yeah.

 

Host  19:46

Jeremy, this is the wrong of trauma surfacing, right, like even though we're outside the physical harm. We're so connected with people that are in danger and we're involved in many ways in different ways, constantly trying to provide that And help them learn the news that there's this kind of second degree trauma of even though we're not personally at risk, we're so associated with the risks that have happened. And that could potentially happen that in some ways, there's some dissociation that takes place of, of kind of losing touch with certain time and space and mentally getting some volved in what's actually happening there that what's happening in front of us becomes secondary.

 

Thiri Nandar  20:27

The one what, when, like, another feeling for me here is like, whenever I do something here in front, so in my daily life, I feel like so guilty. Even I was watching listening one song, I was thinking, Oh, shit, I'm listening one song and my family in Myanmar. They are hearing the bullet song. And you know, the striking song, I'm listening to a song here, so I can't listen to the song anymore. I have to shut down the song, or it's so much guilty to, to be here. And far away from everybody from Yama. Yeah.

 

Host  21:04

Right, right. And that's something I want to talk about. Because when we were speaking before this interview, when we're going back and forth, talking about the what topics and perspectives we wanted to discuss on the interview, the first thing we talked about was guilt. He said, that was the predominant feeling that you wanted to go into and share and just go into the experience of what it felt like for you being a Burmese who was not in the country right now. And as a result of, of not being there that this this feeling and sensation of guilt that you're living with and grappling with every day. So can you describe a little bit more of what what that guilt feels like when it comes?

 

Thiri Nandar  21:46

Yeah. Because, because I'm, first I'm away from my family. And also, because I'm, as I mentioned before, I'm tradition, I grew up in traditional families. So we have a very close relationship, even between my cousin where we are living in one backhaul with everybody, like 20 people. So I was away from all 20 people and my cousin are in the street striking. And we don't know they will come back safely, or you know, they will come back with the body or we come no. So it's, I can't do anything here. And the only thing I can do is to check in the message from Facebook. And I will say, Okay, today, when I come back home, my my Auntie's have informed me, okay, your cousin arrived at home. And after I say, Okay, one day is finished, all come back with with a normal state, you know, and at the time, I feel like, it's so much guilty, I don't know how to express in the wall, or in what it's really like, something is cropping my neck. And you know,  I sometimes forget to breathe like kind of minutes. It's like, they're doing that I come to here. And it's a lot of things coming inside the mind sometimes crying like this without realizing I'm crying for hours. Especially when my husband is not at home when he called to walk the whole day. And yeah, it's a it's I never feel like this in my in my life. What is a lot?

 

Host  23:26

Sorry? And has that gotten any better with time? Have you developed any strategies or ways of working with it? Or how does that is because we're now entering the fifth month of this. And that's quite a big emotional burden to carry you that's really taking over you on a consistent basis. So as this has gone on, have you developed any kind of strategies to work with that?

 

Thiri Nandar  23:52

Actually, I should meditate but I can't concentrate more than two seconds. But it's not like as second second things I try is my my in laws okay. Sometimes should forget things. And you should think of yourself also because you have life ahead in your own and not so you should forget.  And I try one day, I tried to switch off all their connection, or their Facebook and internet and I said, Okay, I will try to relax. But, you know, the next day when I open I had one new and I was so frustrating to hear and also set because I I missed the icon. I don't know. So it's an A now what I I'm I am involved in in many projects to help me and my people. Instead of shutdown, I already find a shutdown where it's not working because I'll tell you, you check again the news is all come back to you worse than normal normally. So now I try to work as much as possible I can for the for me among people, what I do for the community. So I'm involved in many projects. Yeah. Yeah. The first one is there. The name is community Piedmont, the fourth CPF. In English is Burmese community in France. It is the association with the Burmese people it was created in 2004. With a few Burmese people since then they are doing the the the human rights and like cultural event. But after the military group group on first February, we try to regroup again with the two, two against the Myanmar illegal military government. And we have many we organize many activities here. Like for example, we organized this striking, striking event. And also we tried to send letters to the French government to ask for the help, and to ask for the organization to to ask for the recognization of the Anuj government. And also we we try to collect money. And after we tried to donate the communities in Myanmar. Yeah, we try everything we can to raise awareness, what is happening actually happening in your mind? And what kind of help the Myanmar people really need right now? Yeah. This is one one big project I'm involving?

 

Host  26:31

Yeah. How's that been going?

 

Thiri Nandar  26:36

UI is going well, the but we have like a small working group to organize all the things and like that, and, and I have some experience, like some people are afraid to come to a striking event, or to involve and to show their face. Especially they are worried for what if they don't get visa anymore? What if they don't go back to Myanmar? Or what if the military government try to do something to their family? So there's some people stay afraid of that and not involving in many activities here. And also, I'm handling the communication for the CBS.  I faced some, some bad reaction from the French people here.  They say, 'Oh, yeah, we have our own problem. Why are you talking about your problem here in France?' There's a lot of French people supporting, but there are some bad comment also.  Yeah.

 

Host  27:49

So what have you generally found to be French sentiment and I guess French sentiment among the people that you're in touch with on social media and then from like news organizations and covering this, how are you finding the response there in France

 

Thiri Nandar  28:04

normally is a good people, people have a good reaction, they are supporting mentally a lot. And some people they are support a lot and they suggesting you should do their job, this is the government procedure, they give us a lot of advice of so and some people that we have in our groups and volunteer French people who is helping for communication strategy or always a lot of volunteer or so. But yes, that the problem is that a set very small group of French people who who have a bit of communication with Burmese community, they know what is hap really happening in Myanmar. So they show a lot of support. But normally when you say all the front people some they don't know what is Myanmar at all, even though they have no idea what is Myanmar? Yes, second is a dino Myanmar and they know what is happening in coop but because of the front end French with the media coverage is not that much about Myanmar. So they say Berwick is it's been six months or maybe it's already finished. Now they don't always stay happening, say suffering there. Oh, yeah. So yeah, it's this kind of reaction from French people. Yeah.

 

Host  29:20

And also before the interview, another thing you had mentioned to me was that you were quite concerned with what you were seeing as fake news. So can you share a little more of what the nature of this fake news you're seeing is what platforms you're seeing it on and what has you know concerned about it?

 

Thiri Nandar  29:39

The fake news problem in Myanmar is not very new. Because we open up the internet suddenly in 2000. I think 15 everybody have a start to have a phone and but especially in this during the coup period is really effective for example people are saying there's one post about on Facebook and saying, Oh yeah, UN will come in, in two weeks and they will help us in Myanmar to fight for the, the military government, you, UN will  come in two weeks. And it's really a lot of hope, fake hope to the people, especially when you think about my mom and my grandmother or my grandfather, like not young generation anymore, they trust this kind of fake fake hopes. And as an in Myanmar, so Facebook is the main platform for everything. If you for teaching for communication for the news is the Facebook is the main one, even when you do business. If I say another example, recently today, this morning, one singer pass away. And there's a lot of fake news about that. Some people say oh no, he passed away with malaria. And some people say he passed away with because he using the drug. Or some people say no, he is killed by the military. And is really worried, especially from I'm outside of Myanmar. So I, when I opened my Facebook, I saw three or four news and I don't know which one I can trust at all. It's a it's really hard to do a fact check also.

 

Host  31:29

Yeah, this is really tough, because of course, the military has basically made every reporting institution in Myanmar except their state media companies illegal overnight. And so there's reporters are at as much risk as anyone else there. And so that leaves the internet and Facebook for people to start sharing. And back way back decades ago before the internet was in the EMR. Of course one of the ways that people learn news with their tea shops by going to tea shops and hearing rumors and talking about things and trying to interpret different things now that virtual tea shop is Facebook. And so I'm wondering in the fake news that you see, what do you think is behind it? Do you think it's people genuinely trying to figure out what's going on? And just being confused? And just having the kind of whispers in the wind start to take things in a different direction? Or do you think there's something more malicious and intentional behind it?

 

Thiri Nandar  32:22

There's some kind of news are really like they are spreading fake news, with intentions, like first about like, they want to trust that the same guy is passed away because of their drug. If you see this kind of new, if you see the sources, Surely it's a site of military, military side of the people who are supporting military, we're sharing that with spreading that. But sometime, this is not intention. But it's concerned with the you know, the logic thinking and the education of Myanmar people also, like first one people share the one picture of the people Defense Force PDF. And after the military, new new that were the PDF number are and yesterday was a set of an in mentally is happened because of that photo, so that people have no intention to harm PDF, but just she just want to show that she knows there's some people and because of that it's something happened.

 

Host  33:31

So it was because of someone sharing sensitive information without a malicious malicious intention. But just kind of wanting to be ahead of the news or get a scoop or show some kind of maybe get some some credit that it was this selfish desire, which led to the death of mandolin is that which thing?

 

Thiri Nandar  33:50

Yeah, exactly that. Yes.

 

Host  33:52

And then since this event in Mandalay, of course this, as we're talking, this happened just just yesterday or the day before, but this podcast will be released in a week or so. So some time will pass before people hear this conversation. But in the release of the news of this terrible shooting that happened in Mandalay, what have you seen from the online response and the online reaction to it?

 

Thiri Nandar  34:19

It's, it's, it's a lot because people okay one one thing is that they are blaming each other because like they say, okay, because of that the person who posts and blaming each other you shouldn't do that you should do that. This is a frustration. And second reaction most people they they are really affected by that news. And for some other in our group here in Myanmar people and we start to think okay, we should we should do something we should do long term plan, not to. We should do something for that because of what we are thinking What should we do? What kind of plan were held to the people So there's just a second reaction to think about the plan and the declaration is that some people start to be afraid and hopeless for someone like my family and my auntie start to say to my cousin. Yeah, you shouldn't go out. And yeah, it's people have to feel more and more afraid things. And you know, Frighteners is really killing them. Yeah, it's a lot of reactions.

 

Host  35:28

Right. And with that third reaction of starting to be afraid, you know, of course, that is what the time it is wanting the people to be there wanting people to be afraid, and to start to realize that, however bad they're rule is going to be it's going to be better than this current period now. And that's certainly what they're aiming for. And so from what you hear and what you're talking to within the online community, they're back in Myanmar, what are you feeling about their morale? Is there is now that we're five months into this? Is there a sense that some sectors of society just kind of want to go back to whatever stability can be there? Whoever it is, the fleeting or do you feel there's still a kind of never return to the end attitude that is still continuing and even as times are getting harder?

 

Thiri Nandar  36:18

You okay, even even in my, in my Facebook list, I can see like, three people, like, three group of people, one group, they don't care at all, if they have money, and they are going club, they are posting the beauty photo on Facebook, and they don't care at all that is one group. second group, it's more like my mom, or like, a bit older generation, they say, Okay, I we don't, we don't want to let people die like this anymore. So whatever who is ruling is military or whatever we are. Because they grew up in the military regime, like last year's, so they say, Okay, let's go. Even they are doing stupid things. Let's accept that. And let's carry on, because they are afraid to lose people more and more. And the third group is more like john, people know, we will fight until the end. Because we don't want our generation to suffer like this anymore. And other militaries, we all countries already to try, like last 60 years, hundreds years, we just start to draw the loop. And now let's go back to that reaching, so we will find an idea. So I see if you see roughly against the tree group like this, there are people.

 

Host  37:37

Right, and I think I'm most interested in this dichotomy between the second and third group, because the first group is probably pretty small to people with money, who can just sit this out, and it doesn't affect them so much. But the second and third group, the group that wants to just go back to some form of stability, and the group that wants to continue until the end and never accept this. To me, that is really the core question of how the movement is going to develop, because of course, the time that I wants TO splinter that they want to find some way to drag a wedge and to break that solidarity so that there's a growing cry for people that just want to settle with more activists that want to keep the fight going. So is that a concern you have? Do you feel that we as this stretches on that there could be some kind of wedge or division driven between those that want to keep on no matter what and those that have kind of had enough and just want to settle into whoever's going to be the leader?

 

Thiri Nandar  38:31

I don't think so. Because ASAP like you mentioned the first group who is doesn't care at all the the second and the third group. I mean, if there's for some if something happened, like yesterday, manually events, and today about a singer and things like that, even the second group, they say, Okay, let's stay under military because I want to give up this striking, but after this kind of news combat, they get the I don't I don't want to say some kind of motivation, but they get better spreads, you know, okay, we will fight. We will we will fight back? Yes, depend? It's a bit hard to say. But the second attack, Ranieri, the second you can say, Yeah,

 

Host  39:14

right, right. One is a little more active and one is a little more passive, but their their views of the situation are pretty in line. And that's interesting that when the military does an egregious action, that that is killing people and something really violent, that is not having the effect of scaring the people in the second group into wanting to just accept it and move on, it's actually motivating them to be angrier and move closer to the third group. Whereas in past struggles, those that kind of violence was usually more effective and wanting to keep people at home and have people afraid and willing to just accept the more stable society even if it was in fear and a lack of rights but in this case in 2021, that's not

 

Thiri Nandar  40:00

Yeah, because we are not like in 20 sorry, 1988. Because at the time you, okay, it's not available yet and you don't have all the news yet you are seeing only the people in front of you dying. Or say you say, okay, we can't anymore. But now people have more logical thinking people know more. I mean, people know things. And also because of the newspaper can see like a waste weapon you have what, what is happening in where? And how cruel is the military? And then you know, it's make them to give the spirit to find that and at the end, yeah.

 

Host  40:40

Right. Right. And with along with that is this thing of fake news where you talk about people are trying to be more informed and have access to information they didn't before the military has tried to deprive everyone, including their own soldiers have access to internet and information and they haven't been able to do it, we're living in a century in a year where their society just even their own operations can't function without internet. So they've, they've limited it, they've experimented with different kinds of shut offs and limitations, but they can't run a society without having the internet on. And so now that they realize the internet needs to be on in some form, and you can't take it away, they're trying to confuse it. They're saying we accepted that study here. But let's try to make it more confusing and upsetting and ambiguous of what's going on. Of course, there's, as we're talking going on long as in Russia, and there's some real fears that there might be some Russian tech guys that will that will be up to some more tricks on the internet in terms of some of the fake accounts that they can do. So what are your concerns about how Burmese are reading these fake and ambiguous stories are are these creating some kind of tension or confusion or people not knowing what or are the readers genuine? generally pretty aware of those tricks and not falling for that? What do you find

 

Thiri Nandar  42:07

is if I say compared to last last years, I think our people have more knowledge the inner in the inner informing how to handle the informations because they have some kind of by five or 10 years experience now with the internet Okay, stay is worrying compared to the Western country the fake news in their marriage they worried but sometimes Okay, they might share one news without thinking but but after they can take although it's affecting you, because we wait now it's a bit harder with an emotion you don't think right and wrong. You just say one thing when you see one, you saw one use and you shall immediately but after if somebody is playing No, no, it's not a fake new is is the real new No, sorry. It's not the it's not a real new is a fake one. They can refrain from sharing that you what I worried this that because in your mother, less trusted source for some others or some freelance journalist is one freelance journalist whom Jamar people trust now is a mirage. Oh, two. So people trust people trust whatever he say on so it's a kind of a fact checking. People say okay, remember, you're not saying yet. So maybe it's affecting you. So what I worried is hearing from your my people, sometimes they trust people like 100% without thinking anything. One day, something become more like one newspaper, they trust a lot. Now, it's just they somebody wants to use that for round site. It can be really worried for like for the people. Yeah, I'm really worried for that.

 

Host  44:02

Right? Yeah, yeah, there needs to be more critical thought and whoever the person is being to have pure evaluate and look at what it is they're saying and not taking everything in because I have heard cases where journalists or or social media figures who are generally generally respected and are giving accurate information have slipped up and really have had some story or some fact that just is really not quite exactly how things were. And it's been much harder to try to distinguish that because they're coming from such a level of trust before that. So in terms of like, the I know that in country, it's very dangerous to be a reporter. There's no longer any real legal, newspapers or magazines that are allowed to print. This is of course, Myanmar's a very literate culture. It's a culture where people really are appreciate the news like passionate and talking about the news and now we're going back to national tea shop but the virtual tea shopping online as well as some of the more journalists and media organizations as well that are based outside of the country that are still reporting.

 

Thiri Nandar  45:11

For me, I checked many sources when I saw when you for them I chose BBC and that some kind of trusted. I don't say I trust 100%. But you can rely on them a bit. And there's some chance. I know, personally, some journalists. Yeah, I checked the information from them. And I follow what is happening to them also, if they are this always safe. where they are, I didn't ask them, where are they but I, I will check in the news that they are stay safe.

 

Host  45:50

Right. Getting back to what you said a little bit ago, you were mentioning how the first few weeks of it you were you were just quite, quite stuck and paralyzed and understanding the news and realizing what happened. And then slowly, you started to organize to actually being involved in some of the community organizations played a number of different roles and media getting the story out protests, and one of those things was donations. So you've been collecting donations, and then find a way to get the money and more. And I know that you can't tell exactly how you're giving them there and where they're going. Because it's not safe. They're there. They've also made donations are legal as well with donations have to go through a structure where basically they're stolen and and confiscated and used for military. So you've had to develop other networks that we don't want to talk about here. But can you share generally just where your donations are going how your in general ways without giving anything away? how you've been able to get donations into the country and what they're going for?

 

Thiri Nandar  46:56

Okay, there's a two way I can say one is like, because legal process I can say here is when we call it many CPS or according to French law, you can't donate to personal account, you have to donate to organization. So whatever we get, we call it money for CFCs. We sent the person with the organization in their mouth with helping to the people. So it's a legal way. So we choose the organization, which is really helping the ground people. And after we donated, there's a legal way. And another way is legal, also just a bit complicated. Like I sometimes some people are talking to me, I need money. We need money for this group of people for CDM, or there's healthcare, healthcare or for this food. And so for this, I try to collect here in connection here in here in France, sometimes the Burmese people, sometimes French people, and after I transfer money to Myanmar, and I donate that mostly for CDN and CDN people and their healthcare system for the people who are in the refugee camp. And that one, it's so father foot, sometimes you can't donate money, or you have to donate food. People have no food at all to eat, and especially in their places in Mandalay area. There's one organization is doing that. Yeah. But of course, you can't, you can't say that you are donating food to them. Because otherwise, the military will take it. Yeah. So we try to donate food also, for mainly three weeks.

 

Host  48:42

Yeah, it's a really hard situation because you basically have what's becoming a failed state with an active military that's more with its own people while trying to suffocate down and strangle them cut up have block access from any kind of relief of, of any kind, and you and you have this entire state that is needing an entire 50 55 million people that are in need of just basic living of food and medicine, some kind of shelter, especially as monsoon season comes. And everyone that is engaged in this issue around the world is basically doing what they can just through small donations of rallies and such campaigns and their own local community to to collect and provide whatever they can but you know, it's a really, it's a really, really difficult and tragic situation because the entire state being able to be sustained as they're also undergoing a professional military waging a war of terror on them, and trying to bring them in sustenance, as as this continues on longer and longer. So it's really quite dire and concerning how some of these humanitarian things can continue to get in.

 

Thiri Nandar  49:58

Yeah, and also Like you say, we are donating. But also, we are not rich. Also, you know, the common thing, especially Burmese community here in France is like compared to us or UAE, it's really small here. So every time I was like, asking for different titles to the same people, they can't donate much. Also, you know, we need a longer long term plan for to help some something to Myanmar, it can be only with the people, because when you ask the people, the rich people with living in Myanmar, they can't donate all the time, every to everything also. So like I saw, I like your one girl you're seeing on Facebook and saying that you have to  Don't feel guilty, don't sit down. Just work as much as you can. And then like find many just your variety is fine. Many second priority is primarily because we can't do anything now. From here. Yeah,

 

Host  50:59

yeah. So as you've been more involved in you're actually collecting and sending these funds, I mean, these I'm sure the funds you're sending are literally saving lives of you know, being able to give food or safe houses or, or medicine or other things for people are CVM which is shutting down the military as well and operating the state has that done anything to relieve your guilt and feeling that you're you're not being passive? You're you are doing everything you can you're leaving everything on the table, every bit of energy, is that done anything and working with those feelings?

 

Thiri Nandar  51:30

You know, it's like, it's good to not donate and and you know, as when when I donate something, I was a bit, I feel a bit better. Okay, I was donating something. But as soon as you see the message, you're in your, your, your messenger, and people are saying, Can you donate that I can recall it for that. And after you can't donate all. So it's a kind of a big burden for me also, because I see, I have many message with like 10 message, and I can donate only two, or five. So the rest. If I personally, if they come to my personal account is easy, because I will try my best to collect and you know, to some even not a whole amount, I guess on some amount. But if they come to organization, as my mentioned, according to French law, we can't donate to the people, we have to relate to organization to organization. So I have to say no. So it's really hard for me to reply the message. No, we can't help you. We can't help you. Yeah. It's kind of relieving. But it's kind of hard also.

 

Host  52:43

So those debilitating feelings of guilt that you mentioned before that just kind of shut you down paralyzed you I think he said it was almost like a force on your throat. Are those still coming with the same target intensity?

 

Thiri Nandar  52:55

Yes. Like it. Like, last week, I was a bit better because I'm evolving like three or four projects to help for Myanmar. And this week because of the news coming every day the SIR new and especially today, I have two or three news, which is which makes me even I'm walking i'm, i'm i'm stay doing the projects, but I feel like 24 hour is not enough for me to to help my people. Yeah, yeah.

 

Host  53:27

Yeah. And it does seem like you have to find a way to take care of your mental and physical well being because the better shape that those are in, the more you're going to be able to give and the more energy you're going to be able to run on and those feelings of guilt, they just take away productivity really, you know, they just take away the time that could be spent on on doing more of that work with a stable mind and taking it away with the emotional drain which of course is understandable and there's no judgment with that, of course, it's very understandable to to feel that where you are, and yet at the same time as it goes on month after month. You know, I wonder if if there's a way to even use your meditative background of investigation into the body in mind and the reflective thought into you know, what that practice was and start to, to accept it and be with it if if you've had any experience of that.

 

Thiri Nandar  54:25

Yes, because I sometimes I like to say I have to accept that I can't like if we are given a sample donation and I have to accept that I can't donate to all to every case to all amount so like if I accept that it can make me a bit stable and not not stable. How can I say that? relief? Okay, I can't donate all but I already do my best. No. And also I'm talking with my family and and also the my A friend, sometimes I talk with her my friend from Myanmar my best friend, they, he has to convince me not to worry too much. Because he will say like you don't trust it, don't trust the news from Facebook sometimes like, over and it make you overthinking, we are facing and let's face it, and you know, let's do it. If you worry, nothing will help you and try to come down. And yeah, that's why I sometimes say to my friend, I want to be there in your mouth so that I don't take overtake, I face the situation, and I fight for it is better to be there rather than here. And you are thinking what is happening now in that?

 

Host  55:45

Right, right. Although, on the flip side, you know, there are things that people can do outside of Myanmar that cannot be done inside, everyone is having a role to play I, I spoke to so many activists on this platform where they told me basically the month of February, they were out every day, no matter who they were, what their background, they were just all on the front lines. And then at some point, one by one, they just kind of started to realize, you know, I don't need to be helping the movement by being on the front lines. And actually, I'm not a person that is well suited to that, you know, I shouldn't be trying to raise donation or develop strategy or run some underground newspaper or share information or or some some kind of thing that they've realized that they they don't need to be literally on the front line to be doing the best work and showing their commitment and their resolve that they're that there could be something there could be another role that's actually much, much better for the movement that people might not even really know what they're doing. But they're, they're better suited for it. And so I think the first, from what I've seen, it seems like the first six weeks, everyone was somewhat formulating who they were in relation to this what what is their background? What is their connection? Where are they what are their skills, and assessing what what is it they can do from where they are both geographically as well as personally, that will be of greatest value at this moment. And for a lot of people that were there, you know, in in the cities, they were realizing that that did not always actually mean being on the front line, there were things that that were more helpful than that. And so I think for those of us outside as well, there could be a way of looking at something that that we can do in our position, both in our first time entered geography that we couldn't do if we were somewhere else, or someone else couldn't do if they were here. So you know, really, really trying to fit into that role, embrace that role and do that as best as we can. And accepting that that is who we are, that is our limitations with our strengths and being able to support them the best of our capability from where we happen to be.

 

Thiri Nandar  57:47

Yeah, that's why when I accept her to for this interview, to basket, I was thinking, Okay, I should accept and I can speak out when I found out the situation and to let people know, more inside about Myanmar. And you know, yeah, since I realized one way to help people, so it's maybe not that much. I'm not sure. But yeah, it's one way. Yeah.

 

Host  58:16

No, everything counts, you know, everything counts. And that goes for listeners as well. You know, we've had listeners on here who have just decided to start a donation project they made, we had one guy who made an album made a compilation album, all the proceeds are going to our nonprofit, better Burma, which we're then setting on to me and mark. And there was someone in Germany, in Berlin, who went to a table on Saturday and just sold, you know, things that she made at home, little little snacks and other kind of handicrafts and made something like $100, and sent that that $100 proceeds to us. So again, for the charity so that we were able to bring it in there. And so smaller bank, and what these are two examples of doing things to fundraise and give donations, but you know, that's not the only thing you could do. We had a guy on the podcast in Montreal, who just this has nothing to do with money. He is an artist. And there's a mural theme in Montreal. So he and a friend just painted on one of the walls I'm a mural representing the Myanmar protests with different imagery and words and everything else just to show awareness of what was happening. It was just art, you know, it was just getting time. And so I one of the things I really tried to underscore is that this is something for those who care. There's no need to feel helpless, there's no need to feel Oh, this is so bad. What can I do that there's so much that everyone can do and even if what you can do is limited in terms of where you're at and the time you have that. You know, there's no judgment on how much one is giving or what one is doing. But there's no need to feel helpless. You know, there's always something that can be done in every every little thing matters. You know, every little thing is adding up to more and more momentum for a story that's not yet Oh,

 

Thiri Nandar  59:57

yeah, I'm so glad to hear that many people. are helping Myanmar and that's what Myanmar people want to want to hear you know even they hear somebody is I don't know like you say selling for them in Germany or they will be so happy to hear so happy and they will get so much motivation from that. Yeah, thank you

 

Host  1:00:19

you're right so what do you think both inside and outside Myanmar what needs to happen for the people to win

 

Thiri Nandar  1:00:26

for Insight Myanmar we we need to we need to stay showing their military that we don't accept that it doesn't need to be go and fight with them but it's theirs are  the other ways of showing that we are against whether it refers them but you don't pay the tax to the military government. You don't pay the utility bills and to go striking you know, are you doing the CDM keep be strong to stay to do a CDM continiously this is more like for the people Insight Myanmar whether I really want to say that people Insight Myanmar just to be one day to some some activity just their first priority should be their safety the first stage first priority safety and after a second okay whatever you want is the other thing is second all the time the first time for priority should be safety all the time and for the people like us outside we should we should talk more about Myanmar and we should raise more awareness and we should raise more fan This is the best we can do like to and also we should and we should encourage people to not encourage I don't know what is the right water we should convince the Pfizer by the French government to recognize a new g the the offshore government of Myanmar so that they can proceed well yeah this is there also people can do but I assure and I believe that we will right wing issued coming very coming future yeah

 

Host  1:02:08

I hope so when we were all doing all that we can and you talked about with your gal sometimes you weren't even able to listen to a song you thinking that was quite powerful mentioning that you just heard a song and enjoyment you realized your family was hearing bullets. That was one moment How about now are you able to take any time for yourself? Can you have you been able to go for a walk or enjoy a meal or or go back to a song or or something? Even a bath something that that just feels good for yourself and that is giving time and and relaxation to yourself? Or is it still hard to even give that moment

 

Thiri Nandar  1:02:47

and tea now for the South moving? Any enjoyment? No, I can't I can't say handle that. The better because we are chained our house now it's been one month but in a new house. I have a bit of current but what I do sometime at 4pm 5pm I go out and I water the plant that I take and it's not you know, it's not like partying you know, like it's just it's really that one hour is really helping me to calm down a lot. Yeah, yeah, but the sound the music No, I can't do it. I can't enjoy you know, but coordinating is like kind of a relaxing yourself. Yeah, I find that where it's really, I was really happy to to move the house now. Because otherwise I'm if I'm staying in apartment, it will be really hard for me. Yeah.

 

Host  1:03:40

Right. Right. And you you had talked about how you haven't been able to meditate or focus or have any practice since then. But have you been have any like Buddhist ideas or philosophy or memories of what this monk who taught you said before have haven't has as the principles of Buddhism or your past practice, even if you're not able to do it now? Has that come to help you in any ways?

 

Thiri Nandar  1:04:06

It's not aliens come in  It can be helping to relax some time for meditation, but it's bit hard to concentrate, of course, but you have to try many time to be quiet.  Sometimes when I am angry too much or when I I don't know, I can't suffer anymore. I was thinking why, why the bad people are always surviving and the good people, you know, like going all the time. It's not a doubt, but some moment I feel this kind of things, you know, and  I see a lot of people, especially the young people, they they stop, they don't trust the religion anymore, you know, they don't follow the teaching anymore. And if he said when I see that, and at the same time I feel I have some kind of discipline. And also, and I want to help this kind of people, but I'm not in the situation there. I'm not in a state or so to help people the mentally you know, but it will be my, one of my future projects. I will do some after I come down myself to help people mentally also,

 

Host  1:05:21

why do you think it is that young people are becoming more disassociated with with religion with Buddhism?

 

Thiri Nandar  1:05:27

It's because, you know, like, in Buddhism, we have seen that it's just a name, to accept. Most people we always say warrior is our destiny is his destiny. He became like this. He died, he passed away because he only has the life of destiny, like for to survive until now, you know? So the young people they say, No, it's not their destiny is your walk and you have to walk for your destiny. And, you know, the young people are more thinking like strongly like this.

 

Host  1:05:58

So you're saying that young people are confusing Buddhism to be like fatalist? That that everything is predestined. They have no free will. Is that is that right?

 

Thiri Nandar  1:06:08

Yes. Some not. Oh, yeah. I see some doubt.

 

Host  1:06:12

Yeah. Right, which, of course, the Buddhist teachings are not they are certainly not fatal. This that's even in 19th century you had European and American orientalist that were especially Christians that were accusing Buddhism of being in a fatalist religion where karma pre determined everything. And that's a very incorrect understanding of the actual teachings. It's a very superficial criticism. But you're saying that young Burmese themselves and seeing the way that some of this thinking this Buddhist thinking is being expressed to explain why the generals have power and why they're able to get away with what they're doing that those explanations are leading them towards a general disgust and dissociation with what they see is Buddhism, which is actually a perverted sense of it. But that's not the case.

 

Thiri Nandar  1:07:04

Yeah, and that's, that's why I say it's a really, it's really important to have to have somebody to explain you what is the real Buddhist teaching, not missing with other other philosophy or other things?  I know somebody is my, who, she, the whole family is Buddhist, and then the child. He, he, he asked, the questions are about the religion, and nobody can answer him. And he was shouted by his parents, he was sheltered by his relative and shut up or don't ask, don't ask any stupid question ideas, you have to believe her. And finally, he changed a religion. It's really sad to hear that, you know, after if he has somebody to explain him after explanation.  He wanted a chain of why not? Is it this is his choice? He can choose any religion? But he doesn't have any, any because he changed a religion because the other religion? Explain him really well, all his question. And you know, so yeah, in Yama, one big thing missing for religion is that most people they say, shut up, don't ask question and belief 100%, it is really not good.

 

Host  1:08:20

And of course, one of the real tragedies, I think, is the silence on the part of some of the monks, some some of that silence has been somewhat complicit. And what military is doing others have just not engaged at all. And certainly one does not want monks to be political. But this is a false binary in the sense that monks either need to be political marching in the street trying to change the government, or they need to just stay in their monasteries and study and do nothing. But that's a false binary, that you only have one choice or the other, there's actually a large range of choices of how one can engage. And I've been told by friends that there has been such discomfort and even discuss that, the way that so many monks have not been showing any solidarity or support. Of course, this is not to say all of them, some have been have given everything, just as the protesters and they've done it in a way that is still following the vinaya still following the 227 precepts of their of their renunciant life. So it's very, they're not breaking their vows in order to try to be political, but they are also showing support at the same time. So we should definitely affirm that and we've had monks on this podcast who have been those kinds of monastics and so so there have been many that that have that have taken that stand but there have also been many that have not and a friend was telling me that in his community, the monks are actually starting to not get in enough donations, not get enough food. And certainly the general lack of resources in general is playing a role in that but in his estimation, there was a growing distrust and suspicion of money It's not showing solidarity with the people. And so on the people side, there was a lack of generosity and wanting to give back and support the monks that they didn't really feel that support from and that even some monks that weren't necessarily fall in that category were starting to their donations and their food were starting to dry out. And so, you know, this is a really, really tragic thing, that this, this military coup and the destructive force that the military has shown on Buddhism and propagation of Buddha's teachings in Myanmar, and how much damage they've caused to it. This is another layer to that, but they're also sowing this wedge and this divide between many of the people when the monastics and the support that has been given so generously for generations. So

 

Thiri Nandar  1:10:47

yeah, I know a lot of cases of the case you mentioned like people start to donate the lesser to the monk and some monks. But for me personally, because they be quiet, if they don't support ministry, but I can't, I can't imagine the monk with supporting military is the worst, at the end pushes the, I mean, I don't, I don't want to say people should stop donating. But you know, it's not logical at all to for me, I won't donate, I don't donate for this kind of thing. You know? Yeah. Someone's Okay, they have the right to be quiet, as long as they are not supporting the military. Because they can be with their meditation, they can be with their teachings, and if they are giving their the peaceful mind, and they can convince their people to have a peaceful practice, why not? in kind of one way, they are helping people, you know? Yeah, is someone's know they're supporting? Yeah, I have a Samsung. I know. And no, no, right now, even on Facebook, I blocked him or I don't, I don't, I can't see any more from him anymore. You know. And I am sure if I go back to him, I don't want to go to that monastery anymore.

 

Host  1:12:16

Yeah, and I think However, this plays out, this is causing a fundamental change we haven't seen in Myanmar in many decades, or even centuries of reformulating the relationship that people are having with their monks. Because up until now, that some of the big great monks that you're supposed to give to because you get so much merit because, of course they're they're so powerful, how could they be powerful without great power, me and karma. So therefore, you should give to those monks that already have a lot, because you'll also get the great merit for giving to them. And all of a sudden, this has all started to be questioned and things that weren't really critically questioned or thought about before, suddenly, like, why am I and everyone else giving to this monk in that month in that mode, when, at this moment, they're clear, they're not just being silent, but they're clearing, they're clearly showing signs that they're supporting one side over the other. So why why give the support here, if we're not getting support back when we need it most in the form of providing solace, or spiritual teachings or solidarity or something like that?

 

Thiri Nandar  1:13:20

Yeah, but I don't want to say one good thing about group data, but the one positive thing about from a group data is like, people have to have to face many difficult things, and many year many things. So they know, they realize more, first of all, they realize which for religion, okay, how to practice more Buddhist way, you know, they see clearly not to donate to the debate another Pagoda, rather than to, to the neck to the people who is really in need, you know? And also, there's many evolution also. So, well, I talked with one of the group and it's really a good time, to, to, I don't say to solve all but to start to start thinking and to evil evaluate, you know, to start to change, some bad habits, some might the old traditional mindset and, you know, it's, it's one of the positive thing happened this this, this five or six months?

 

Host  1:14:27

Yeah. Yeah. That's the hope, certainly, that that this traditional structure of the Buddha set down the monkhood the teachings, Dhamma meditation, that this will continue in some form, as society's changing as it's in a state of revolution as it's questioning everything, that this entire structure which I think has provided enormous benefits humanity will continue in place, but exactly the lame on Aztec relationship and the role that The teachings and practices playing in society that has to adapt, and that has to find a new way of settling in whatever the new Myanmar is going to be, without losing that essence, but that it's able to, to change and to shift to fit whatever the modern era and modern needs are. Because that's what religion and spirituality and spirituality they have to do that anywhere, any religion or spirituality there is the human society is constantly changing and evolving and has to change with it, while keeping something of its core and being able to adapt to the superficial changes to be relevant in new ways. But keeping whatever the the core of that, you know, that powerful spiritual belief was from the teacher so long ago, I know that from foreigners who are looking at the situation, knowing that Myanmar is a Buddhist country, knowing that the generals themselves call themselves through this. There's some confusion about why How could a so called Buddhist leadership who are referencing Buddhist values and Buddhist religion be engaging in the practices that they are? So how do you understand that what do you understand of the type of Buddhism that is practiced and followed among the military in general?

 

Thiri Nandar  1:16:11

[The military] are Buddhists in their  wn way. hTey make the religion whatever they want. ITey trust a lot about their astrological things and they too, like, like, you have to, like some astrologer say you have to do that in that time and to be to be again or you know, it is it's not a real religion, they are they are believing. I don't know you saw that news or not. It's I don't remember his they're, they're associated one association is true one letter saying that. The general May Allah is the future Buddha. So it's after you can imagine what kind of fake religion they have. I don't say fake ways taker, not the real one.

 

Host  1:17:15

Yeah, it's perverted. I mean, it's perverting the teachings according to superstitions who say or and some kind of shamanistic influence of numerology and superstition and etc. So it's just really perverting these teachings. And I think that I think that Burmese people are not fooled. I think that they see it exactly for what it is. I think that it's a little more challenging for foreigners, for meditators for foreign Buddhists that are looking from a distance to try to parse what exactly is going on with because some of the language, the rites, the rituals, the practices, those are quite similar from a superficial way. And so there's a sense of confusion, but I think when you really dig into it, it's just a, as you said, they're trying to make another religion, I would say they're really perverting the religion that they're claiming that they're protecting.

 

Thiri Nandar  1:18:10

Yeah, it's like you say, foreigners, if the foreigners just who never been to Jamar was a bit far from your MMA community, the mighty Europe, boorish is their religion with separate calm and not fighting, not killing, why they are killing, why they are fighting. They just don't know. It's not all and there's so many fake things that involving their religion, but some some foreigner who come to the country and with a bit more closer to their community, they realize that they can see different between why this kind of people can do that. What kind of religion what kind of Buddhist religion they are following, and you know, they can see further My, my, my colleague, they know that. Yeah, it's a sad day. So some people with which Buddhist religion is the real one will not killing who is calm with some thought something like that. And who are the people like your military? They think killing for the country is a good things, you know? Yeah, they can see.

 

Host  1:19:16

Yeah, and that's why I think it's so important to have conversations like this in English, because we, for listeners that are tuning into this, you're talking about your Buddhist practice, and how it was different than the traditional kind of engaging in critical thought and going and definitely having the meditations when you're experiencing the meditation from your monk teacher, but you're also being taught a critical way of evaluating and that's showing that there's some difference between the type of practice you had and the more traditional society and then we're also digging into learning how these in the military there might be claiming that they're protecting this is why religion but in actuality, they're harming a translator. They're perverting it. So conversations like this are so important, for those that are not able to see beyond that superficial are just kind of hearing general talking points and are like, Well, you know, I see those, those generals and they're taking their shoes off to the pagoda, and they're bowing before monks. And, you know, they're, they're referencing this and that. So they're either confused, or they're kind of kind of fall into thinking that what Buddhist leadership of some kind, and, and so to really be able to talk honestly and openly about what's actually happening, even the more nuanced shape of the way that Buddhism plays out there, I think is really important to educate people.

 

Thiri Nandar  1:20:36

Yeah. And also I said, because it's a sensitive topic, is really hard to, to talk, honestly, about what you think about religion, you know, even sometimes, I'm some in some group, I'm the kind of outsider and they can say, Well, yeah, you will go to hell for sure. Because you are criticizing and you are doing that. Yeah, it's a that's more and more we are honestly talking, we have open to the wall, we are open to discussion, but stay, there are some,

 

Host  1:21:07

some topics, we can't talk until now within the society. Right until now, that's the key point, because what I've seen is February 1, that's kind of opened the lid off of a lot of things and different ways of talking of being and of communication, and even a thought, have really exploded past February 1, because all of these fears all of this suppression that was happening before for different reasons. It's now people are in so much danger. And the situation is that on so many levels, that there seems to be this explosion of, of, of critical inquiry and discussion and honest debate that in ways that was not happening before and some of that, as you said, if there's so it's hard to talk about a benefit of a coup. But you know, there's there's there's always benefits, even if the worst disasters that befall us, there's always something that comes in the aftermath of that, and it does seem in this case, there's there is there's less fear, than it seems like there have there has been before that, that was what people are up against. There's just not really the time of day to keep being afraid of all these other things. And to just start to, you know, think and talk more openly, or at least that's what I've been feeling what's what's your take on that?

 

Thiri Nandar  1:22:24

Yes, it what we we are changing, but still, we have some difficulty in the community or so. Yes, I feel like this is the correct this time, we have to, we should take advantage of this time to talk about that. And you know, but in the other way, is a lot of things happening. And it's not suddenly you feel that is not a correct moment to say about that. So, you know, it's, it's a bit hard to find the balance between between two to two change,

 

Host  1:23:05

change changes is a difficult process for anyone and anytime. What are you finding, as you're watching the struggles for change take place in real time? What kind of challenges are you seeing as you as you observe this,

 

Thiri Nandar  1:23:20

if we talk about the challenges of a religion, for changing, you know, like, the concept or the thinking, it's compared to what I was in university student, of course, it's really, it's really changing a lot. I can talk a lot about a lot of the I can talk to things a lot, rather than when I was young, I can't talk to anything. They say, No, you have, you don't have the right to questioning anything. But they say the people. And one interesting thing I saw not the state like this, this years, and some months. They are, they are more logical. And you know, they, it's play, and they remind you, I saw I think I saw two months ago one man was saying, you know, if you are not legit logic and how you can get the logical thinking to people, you know, if you are not come down yourself, how you can give the lesson to the content to people. But these day people are not like 1980s or 8080s or something, you know, a, it's not like that anymore. You have to this generation, they need a logical explanation. And they have you have to explain until they understand. So be prepared and then don't don't make the religion bed, you know, because you you can't explain. Well, I was when I see that board. I was really, I don't know how I'm really happy, you know, to see this kind of conversation from one month.

 

Host  1:24:46

Yeah, that's right. I mean, the religion has to adapt to spirituality. It has to adapt and meet people where they're at. And it can't remain as it was for previous generations by the traditional old guard. Bye bye Hear whether it's a physical fear or whether it's a spiritual, spiritual fear is just as just as real, that prevents people from having actual conversations and critical inquiry inside their mind and holds them in place. And these structures, especially now, they are not going to be held in place, by force and by fear and by an old guard at the top, speaking out to what people have to believe how they have to feel how they have to practice, that's not going to work. And if that is the methodology of what some of those top leaders are doing, then that is actually the worst thing I would argue for the for Buddhism to to remain that really there has to be people that look at how do we how do we keep the core of the value of the monkhood and the teachings and the precepts and so many other meditations, so many other parts of that, how do we keep the value of this in our culture, while finding new ways to adapt? Because every every generation has to find it itself. And this was true of the post World War Two generation that had a new and exciting, independent Buddhist kind of identity that they hadn't had before. And religion was adapting them in new ways. This was true in the late 19th century, during the colonial period where there were different challenges and the religion was being was was facing all kinds of problems and struggles that had never had before. And it couldn't hold on to the way things always were and had to adapt in innovative and surprising ways people like Lady seda pushed it forward and in ways that some of the old guard was very controversial. And there's a lot of resistance, but he found a way to continue to make it relevant to those people. And you know what, this time now be wonderful to see that happening, wonderful to see monks are practitioners or teachers that are nuns, for sure, for that matter that we're able to continue to find the relevance and bring them to us while adapting to the needs. And the reality of moment. And this is in many ways, this is a really exciting time for that. But it's also a challenging time. Because if that doesn't happen, then as you say, with the younger generation, they're just simply going to see what's valued. They're going to misunderstand it, they're going to hear not the true teachings but but the perverted teachings. And no one really has any time for these perversion of teachings, they're not going to hold no one really has time for antiquated teachings. So there has to be some way to to bring that and make it relevant.

 

Thiri Nandar  1:27:33

No, just want to know, I just want to say sometimes when when I I say hear things, frankly, honestly, what I think maybe some Potter, I was saying, honestly, is some like personal view, and I don't want to I'm not I don't have any intention, you know, to, to criticize their religions. And maybe if I say something, I don't know, some opinion. Or if I criticize people, it's my personal view. And it's not reflecting all the you know, all the society or BMR people or just one of me or my people with grew up in Yama with a bit different way than the other. And just my point of view, I just want to clarify, because I say my name and after I will distribute this posca to my, my sister, my friend, my society. So I just want to clarify on the last point,

 

Host  1:28:34

this No, I thank you for that, you know, I thank you for clarifying that. And I thank you for your honesty and vulnerability and having this discussion as we talked about, we're talking very openly about things that a few months ago, you know, would not be on either side would not be this level of openness, but just the top has come off in so many cases. And for me as well. You know, I also want to give that caveat that I I'm just someone trying to understand this better, that's why we're having this conversation to test theories and to ask questions back and forth. This also doesn't mean that I really have any idea what the heck I'm talking about. I could also be wrong and misguided in all kinds of ways. And if I am then you know, these are the kind of conversations that correct me or comments from listeners and so we're all just doing the best we can with with our limited perspective knowing that we certainly have blind spots as we're we're kind of groping around trying to figure things out with that I really thank you for taking the time to join us speaking so so vulnerably honestly here I know it's past midnight for you they're in France so we finally got a chance to connect with these time zones and both have difficult things in our schedule but delete it but I'm glad we got you on now and you know I I just thank you for all that you doing for to to provide support and benefit for people back in Myanmar and and i I'm sorry that you've had to deal on a personal level with all of this guilt and trauma. I know that's true for all of us but I do hope that as as this goes on longer in which it looks like it's doing that you're able to find that balance and find that that peace and that mental and physical health while you continue to give and support so much for those people back there.

 

Thiri Nandar  1:30:23

I thank you for let me evolve in this kind of a nice program and that Miss speak whatever I think, honestly, without any restriction and and also I'm happy to share my experience which which can spread to the to the people who is listening to this podcast, if they can sustain and if they it can help them a bit to to understand more about the people in bomber and then the the Cooper and the situation of the people. Yeah, I'm very happy to be here. And also I'm Thank you supporting Jamar from start off the military group and thing now, even for small things they do for Myanmar, it can really help us a lot and it can really give us motivating that we know that we are not alone and all the people around the world are helping us and to be with us. So thank you everybody.

 

Host  1:31:31

Hope you found today's show as rewarding to listen to as we did to produce it. These are not easy times. I certainly know this on a very personal level as some of you might also have picked up on from what I've shared on this and other episodes. These days, I'm now absorbed in doing all I can at every moment of the day and night. To push through whatever is possible from this humble platform as often might also be true for some of you at this time. This often involves decreased sleep hours and quick meals, all during heightened states of emotion. So if you found this or any other episodes, we've done recently a value and feel this mission is a valuable one to continue. please consider supporting our effort by making a donation. Because we have dramatically ramped up all of our efforts this month. We are only able to keep production at this level through the generous donations of listeners like you if you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are resisting the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form, currency or transfer method. every cent goes immediately and directly to funding those local communities who need it most. Donations go to support such causes as a civil disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, and the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies. Or if you prefer, you can earmark your donation to go directly to the guests you just heard on today's show. In order to facilitate this donation work, we have registered a new nonprofit called better Burma for this express purpose. Any donation you give on our Insight Myanmar website is now directed to this fund. Alternatively, you can visit our new better Burma website, which is better Burma one word.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause in both websites except credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me slash better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo GoFundMe and cash app. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to those respective accounts. Or email us at info at better burma.org. In all cases, that's better Burma. One word spelled b e TT er bu r Ma. If you would like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration.

 

1:34:17

But yeah, they are what am I gonna do we are done and the reason is that we got busier and busier

 

1:34:27

yada yada yada yada yada yada, yada yada. No, no nothing.

 

Host  1:34:48

Listening to the Insight Myanmar podcast, we'd appreciate it very much. If you could rate review and or share this podcast. Every little bit of feedback helps. You can also subscribe to the insight man More podcasts on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever else you get your podcasts to make sure you don't miss any of our upcoming episodes. If you can't find our feed on your podcast player, please just let us know and we'll ensure it can be offered there in the future. Also, make sure to check out our website for a list of our complete episodes, including additional text videos and other information available at Insight myanmar.org. And I also invite you to take a look at our new nonprofit organization at better burma.org. There was certainly a lot to talk about in this episode, and we'd like to encourage listeners to keep the discussion going. Make a POST request specific questions and join in on discussions currently going on. On the Insight Myanmar podcast Facebook group. You're also most welcome to follow our Facebook, Instagram and Twitter accounts by the same name. If you're not on social media, feel free to message us directly at info at Insight myanmar.org. Or if you'd like to start up a discussion group on another platform, let us know and we can share that forum here. Finally, we're open to suggestions about guests or topics for future episodes. So if you have someone or something in mind, please do be in touch. We would like to take this time to thank everyone who made this podcast possible. Currently, our team consists of two sound engineers, Mike pink and Martin combs. There's of course Zack Kessler, content collaborator and part time co host, Ken pranskey helps with editing and a special Mongolian volunteer who is asked to remain anonymous does our social media templates. In light of the ongoing crisis in Myanmar, a number of volunteers have stepped in to lend a hand as well. And so we'd like to take this time to appreciate their effort in our time of need. And we're always on the lookout for more volunteers during this critical time. So if you'd like to contribute, definitely let us know. We'd also like to thank everyone who has assisted us in arranging for the guests we've interviewed so far. And of course, we send a big thank you to the guests themselves, for agreeing to come on and share such personal powerful stories. Finally, we're immensely grateful for the donors who made this entire thing possible. We want to remind our listeners that the opinions expressed by our guests are their own and don't necessarily reflect the host for other podcast contributors. Please also note that we are mainly a volunteer team, we do not have the capacity to fact check our guest interviews. By virtue of being invited on our show. There's a trust that they will be truthful and not misrepresent themselves or others. If you have any concerns about the statements made on this or other shows, please contact us this recording is the exclusive right of Insight Myanmar podcast and may not be used without the expressed written permission of the podcast owner, which includes video, audio written transcripts or excerpts of any episodes. Also not meant to be used for commercial purposes. On the other hand, we're very open to collaboration. So if you have a particular idea in mind for sharing any of our podcasts or podcast related information, please feel free to contact us with your proposal. If you would like to support our mission, we welcome your contribution. During this time of crisis. All donations now go towards supporting the protest movement in Myanmar to our new nonprofit better Burma. You may give by searching better Burma on paypal Venmo cash app, GoFundMe and patreon as well as via credit card at better burma.org slash donation. You can also give right on our Insight Myanmar website as all donations given there are directed towards the same fund. And with that, we're off to work on the next show. So see you next episode.

 

1:39:06

Yo yo

Shwe Lan Ga LayComment