Transcript: Episode #59: Courage in Chinland
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Mark, which appeared on June 23, 2021. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 01:40
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May 04:24
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06:50
Hey, by the way, have
06:55
a good day.
Host 07:22
I'm really pleased to be welcoming mark here to Insight Myanmar podcast. Mark is speaking to us from chin state, he's of chin background. So we're gonna get a chance to learn a little bit about his community and how they're doing these days. So, Mark, thank you so much for joining us here inside me and my podcast. Yep. Thank you very much. Yeah. So I know it's no easy thing these days to make time you never know when you're going to get the internet on and what kind of emergencies are going to be happening. So I really appreciate that you were able to make the time for us here. And I understand it just more in listeners, it's a bit noisy in your background, that's the best that you can do. Given the circumstances. What can you tell us a little bit about what all is going on behind you
Mark 08:07
up? Okay, thank you very much for letting our voice heard to the other part of the war. Currently, I have to come to the place where the internet is working well. And there they are doing some renovation or construction at the the place where I'm going. So there's a bit of noise in the background. Yep.
Host 08:29
Great. Great. So it's much harder to get internet contact these days. So I'm very glad that you had it there. And we'll we'll work through any technical or noise difficulties. So before we get into anything else, I wanted to ask you, if you can tell us a little bit about the chin people we probably have many listeners that are listening in that don't know anything or know very little about chin community, the chin history, the geography, the culture, the religion. So before we get into how things are going on today, if you can just start us off from the very beginning and speak to the listener who are the chin
Mark 09:09
up thank you very much. In Yama, the chin people the Healy people I should say in the western part. So it currently the niugini national unity government of Myanmar have militarily divided into five parts Eastern Division, Western Division, South and Northern Santa center and now currently we are in the Western Division of Yama. So we are healing people and in the chin unlike any other states, inside the chin people we have different tribes or different language speakers like we have zoomy we have limy we have this cookie and we have so on. So we are inside Chin state we have different dialects speaking people have maybe I think seven to eight dialect if I'm not wrong. So, we are how to say we have been a we have our ancestor in Myanmar, we have an our ancestor in India or Bangladesh and when the English coming and they they, when when they give us independent we have been a part through this different part of the countries. So, in Myanmar we are staying in chin states in India. Our people are staying in Mizoram, and some in JIRA jumbo and some people in Nagaland in Bangladesh. I'm not sure the geographic location of our people so that we are separated into this few countries. So yeah, that's that's the brief story of chin people. Yep.
Host 10:58
So you mentioned that there are these different dialects, different languages? Can you clarify for listeners? When speaking chin, is there any common ground with Burmese? Are there any similarities between Burmese and chin language? And then among the different chin languages? Can people understand each other with a different accent? Or are they completely different chin languages?
Mark 11:26
We have totally different, different language with Burmese. And if we don't, it's just like English and Burmese between our languages and Burmese languages. Also, under the chin, as I say we have azumi, ushomephoto, and cookie, and miso, all our languages are different too. So some words, very, some similar words like mom, that that's it. And if we don't learn the language, we don't understand what they are speaking. So in chin state itself, we have different dialect different languages. But intensely our cultures are more or less the same. As like our dances, our dresses and our cultures and celebration we do and are more or less more or less the same of the chin people.
Host 12:25
Yep. Right. So when you're meeting someone from a different chin tribe, aside from very popular nouns and other words like that, you generally you can't communicate with one another because the languages are so different. And then of course, if you want to have any kind of success in Myanmar, you have to learn Burmese which is not the native language of anyone in your community after your chin dialect.
Mark 12:49
But you mentioned that the culture among the different chin tribes is very similar. Okay, let's say in the chin culture our people have similar like the celebrations of marriages more or less the same among the chin states people and and also our celebrations of New Year's are more or less the same. It's just one or two day apart or just one week apart. It's categorized into same same period so and no we also believe that we are the descendants of so people so that that's our main forefathers have been from the same from the same ancestor so that that's why we have like a similar culture most are similar culture before then we are not Christian and I think Christian have been entered into our jeans day like 1800 like yeah, it's in 1800 around the Christianity have started coming to chin Hill and now currently, majority of the chin, chin state peoples are Christian. And so is we we believe that we are the descendants of Zopa people so it's like we are for further go back to like well, they call it is a ticket to barman so when Yeah, that's that that's that our forefathers that's what we believe.
Host 14:31
What are the Zoho people
Mark 14:33
does Oh people then we let that as I said, there's old people we include like Amazon cookies, oh me. And now we have branches out from there. And then we went when they like, migrated slowly from from from the Mongolian and Tibetan that what we believe then we come to the chindwin Valley and we come up to Cabo Valley. Now we settled in the chain states,
Host 15:03
right and historically, mostly before the 19th century, as you said, most chin were NMS they had different types of animist beliefs until the missionaries, I believe it was the American missionaries came and converted the first few chin tribes and my understanding the Christian faith among the chin people goes back to the 19th century. So looking today, in the 21st century, how would you characterize the Christian belief and faith and culture of the chin communities? What shape does it take? What
Mark 15:35
does it look like chin, okay. In the shin states, as I say, majority are Christian, and majority protesting. And there are lots of missionary among our people. So we strong believer in Christianity, I should say, because the whole chance that we have lots of light like missionary who have even walked back, go back to the America, Australia for missionary and all. So currently, in our, in our states, we have have a very before just before this cope, we have a very independent or free, worshipping status in chin states so far. Yep, it's been I think around 10 to 15 years that we have freedom of worship in our states.
Host 16:28
So your freedom of worship only goes back 10 or 15 years
Mark 16:31
yeah, before then it's its military region, as you know, by means is mainly ruled by militaries. And so at that time, we didn't have much freedom of worship in in our chain state, our charges are Cross has been destroyed every now and then.
Host 16:47
Right. So how did Christian culture and religion start to change in the chin community in the last 10 to 15 years has greater religious freedom was allowed, as you know, when we get
Mark 17:01
crazy, like when we get elected government around 2015? So it's started with that, and we have like, we already have our charges, our community and our people have been grouped into different type of this Christianity. And when it comes to 2015, we have like a no I should say, we have no no outside intruder about the religion from from from that we can freely build our churches we can there we can protect our land, our our churches, our community.
Host 17:41
How did that feel to have that greater religious freedom? Of course, that's, that's
Mark 17:45
great. I mean, this 10 to 15 years of democracy have been very, very different, was a different level of our living standard, because we can the government have really tried to, to be better, the government have really tried to work hard. So we have tasted like 10 or 15 years of democracy. So that's, I think that is also one of the main trigger that when the coop come in, in February, we know the taste of democracy. So we are giving our life to protect, or to get back that democracy or better that better democracy.
Host 18:29
Right. In your case, in the case of your community. It's not just a democracy, of being being able to vote for you want to and having certain kinds of basic rights in your life. It's also your actual religious faith. It's your religious institution, it's your religious buildings, that this is also what you're trying to preserve.
Mark 18:51
Yep, I think that is also one of the one of the one of the things that we had to try to preserve. Right, right.
Host 18:59
So we talked a bit about the chin people and just their background, geography, religion, language. So have a bit of an overview for the listener. I want to go from general to specific and start to learn more about you and learn more about your background, your family, your biography, so as far as you are comfortable, can you tell us a bit about your life story and your background?
Mark 19:24
Yep. Thank you very much. And I was born in the zoomy. In chin state, as I say we have zoomy and other other types of zombie and from the northern part of chin states. I was born there in a small town. So then I was brought back to the Calais Valley and I grew up in the in the place where I can get a good Burmese education. And I am personally I finished my MBA from UK By true distance learning, and I have been working here as one of the business trainer before the coop, so when the coop come in, then I have, I stepped back and I come back to the States, with my people and we are now fighting in every possible way we can from our land. We call it zone land, it's under chin state.
Host 20:34
Right. So you mentioned coming from a small chin village, eventually earning your MBA through a UK University. Is that unusual for someone of your background? Were there other people in your community that were able to achieve that kind of education,
Mark 20:50
I think it's quite hard to get that actually, my parents particularly they have worked really hard to support that type of money. Because in our country, we don't usually have a good part time work to support ourselves to go to school MBA, it's solely rely on our parents support, if a parent can support we can study as far as we can all maybe some people if they are clever, or if they are very, very good at study, they will get some sponsor, like, medium in the education like me, I'm not really expert. I'm not really brilliant, but I just want to continue my education like me, and our parents are so sponsor for us, because people wouldn't sponsor us because we are not that I mean, top level Academy, so it's quite hot. So for me, luckily, my father, he have to flew into United States for like walking around 1010 years, during my education to support our family and our, our, our education. So that's, that's the way we are. We're trying but to an inside our land, and to support or to get a good education, like internationally recognized education is quite hard in our country.
Host 22:15
Right. So it really required a family sacrifice, and everyone in the family uniting for that goal for you to be able to achieve that higher education to be able to make it happen and give you the future that they weren't able to have themselves. Yep, exactly. How about Christian faith in your personal life and in your family background? What kind of role did Christianity play?
Mark 22:37
Okay, it my my forefathers, they were they were like this non Christian, migrant father was non Christian and my father was the first one who have converted into my father and his brothers, I should say the first one were converted into Christian. And my father was at the time he was a Roman Catholic. My uncle was a Seventh Day Adventist, they were started converting into that. And they now currently, I'm in Seventh Day Adventist.
Host 23:10
And when you talked about your great grandfather being non Christian, was he animist or what what was his background? Yeah, enemies, we they worshiped? Some kind of unseen, what should I say? Yeah,
Mark 23:23
and, and since period, personally, I have grown up in a very, very, like strict religious family. We go to church every every week, every Saturday. And we learn a lot of this by the teaching so religion or this fate have played a very major role in my in my life. Religion is for me personally, it's a really cool personal belief. So it doesn't much what is the differentiate my social being with other friends of mine light with the Burmese with the other, other group of my chin, but it's a cold leave that I have in my heart that this, this the preaching, the love, the caring, or I feel that for me personally routed through the Bible teaching, because I was grown up in that, in that community who were religious, or what this Bible teaching has been a very strong core value for my family.
Host 24:27
Right, that's, that's beautiful. And you mentioned how you got your MBA from university in the UK. What were you currently doing with it? What was your professional status before February 1.
Mark 24:42
before February 1, I was doing this business training. So I train business owners and their team for the like strategic planning. And so I do work mostly with business leaders. I trained. I have been working with around 40 to 50. Companies closely. Yeah.
Host 25:07
Where were you based?
Mark 25:10
I base I travel around, usually Rangoon, mainly and these big cities, because in those cities, most of the business owners were located,
Host 25:21
and how was that business going?
Mark 25:22
That was a very good booming business, we have started in 2000, I think 60. And that's really good one and we like rocket up very, to the very high, high, I'm in the situation is really good. The business is really good until, until the COVID has come. And the second big strike was the coop. Because we also work closely with other trainers around the world, like we work with. Dr. Marsha go Smith, and we work with john Maxwell leadership expert. And also we our business have been quite good. Before those
Host 26:05
disaster. How did your business manage during the pandemic,
Mark 26:08
during pandemic it was, at first it was really hard. And after three to three to four months, then we used to we are used to that new normal. So we have to walk through the online. And we we talk with our business owner virtually. So I think that's quite okay, up to four to five months. We can it's not a rocket hide, but it's going quite normal after six to up to three to four months of COVID. before February, right?
Host 26:42
Yeah, just kind of getting along. I want to talk a bit more about your background and the chin community and where that fits overall in the Myanmar experience. And the reason I want to mention this on this podcast platform, we have mainly been speaking to Braemar, Buddhists, that have been activists in some ways and involved in some ways. And we are reaching out to more and more voices and trying to bring in greater diversity, to hear the wider experience of living in Myanmar and all the different forms and shapes that takes then the standard majority view. And I think one of the things that we're finding during these protests is that even the young generation Z of Omar, Buddhists are starting to realize to a greater extent, the privilege that they have in the system and the way that other minorities are, are biased or discriminated against in ways that they're not in ways that many of the guests that we've had on this podcast that have been Mr. Buddhist have shared quite open and quite vulnerably, their lack of sensitivity and lack of concern for the ethnic experience in their country. And so I'd like to check in with you. And I'm, I'm curious what you can share about how it's been been a member of a minority community in Myanmar, in ways that even the mainstream community of Mar Buddhists wouldn't necessarily know what your life in your background has been. Because they they haven't been in those shoes. Yeah,
Mark 28:29
I have been like working closely or I have been together with them lots, because I have to study in the land. And I have to stay with them. Even my business partners are mostly Burma. An d I have known very, most of the very good monks in my life, too. I have worked very closely with them, too. So the core belief of Buddhists, it's very peaceful, I love it, then those who really study about real Buddhists, we don't have much problem or we don't have much, again, against each other on in terms of in terms of belief. And on the other hand, for the minority. Before that, if we say let's say the military have come up to our chin healed and they destroy our crosses our churches, they say, ah that, that's it because they can't feel that tension or the brutality as we have faced. So in that time, we just need to we explain them. For them. It's like they just read the newspaper because they never they never feel about that. So in in this February coupe, we work hand in hand together, even they suffered a lot, then they come to realize that okay, this should be the case because the Buddhist teaching itself or the propaganda of the military is very strong among the Burmese people that when we say that how cruel the military are in our land, they can't believe when we say that they rape our people they say ah, is that really like, they are looking at us as though we are lying to them. So, but at that time, too, I can understand that because this is the experience they never face. Because this is not the things that they heard from what the military do, or what the monk which covered the military can do. they never heard of it. So this time they face about all this in practical, then they come to understand about how the minority had suffered, or how the powerless people have been tortured in other parts of the country.
Host 30:44
So have you actually spoken to them or friends who have expressed some kinds of remorse or regret, or openness now that they're having a greater sensitivity or belief in your experience that they didn't have before?
Mark 31:00
Of course, of course, they they, even my co workers and even my non currently for for the spring revolution, where I am working closely with the homochiral to so I'll have every now and then we will before then we when we guide when you guys said, we just noticed about that, but we can never believe or emerging, how quick it will be. So that these are the things that I often heard from them that this like, they say, it's sorry, that we can't feel before our will, we can heard your voice as low as now
Host 31:40
before. That's a really powerful validation. So
Mark 31:43
you've spent most of your life having your boyfriend's not necessarily understand or believe or sympathize with the suffering that the chin people have gone through. And now there's been this opening on at least part of some to recognize that happened and even to apologize for not realizing that before. So what does that felt like? It's good, I mean, it's good, that they understand more deeper, and that they understand the situation or they come to really see what will be the suffering if we don't really walk together in the country, because human rights violation and every other things like before then people usually used to think it's the egg of NGO, they will just generate money through that name. And they report back to the Western or any other country. That's what generally what they are thinking. So now they they they they they understand about Okay, that's that's human rights is necessary in our country. Okay. Every rights is like valuable to hear other people's voices is also it's very beneficial or to respect other people. Was other people stand out the people culture is also very important because the minority voice not only in our country is minority voice is not necessarily hard, as long as them because they're the minority, because everything is okay, then the majority usually, they don't care about that. But in this situation, especially in yamagami scope, the minority people who have been suffering or we have been ready or we have always been fighting mentally with this military government. So when it comes to the rail, these type of coop situation, we are the one mentally who we can lead them mentally and we are ready, some We are ready physically to die You can see in the East and in the north and the catch in the Korean. They have been secretly that was before then it was like seen by majority that, okay, they are just what is that they are just the people who use to fight back the Obama people. That's the view they have now they come to understand that, okay, they are protecting their rights. They are protecting their land. Now they started to see that. So I think it's out of all this disaster, what we can take is that mutual understanding between all the people, it seemed like we feel that the spirit of independence is 1947 spirit 1948 spirit have been coming up together, because we all are equal. It's not about majority, but it's about we have to work together to have a very good country.
Host 34:45
Yeah, yeah, that's definitely what has to happen in order for the people to win. I want to stay focused a bit on chin state and chin community. We've learned a bit about the culture and the geography and the people there. So February 1, half happens the coup is initiated and what is the response in chin state? I know that there are many diverse communities as you mentioned. So the different tribes or or areas or regions might have diverse responses, but after February 1, what can you tell us about what kind of response we saw in chin state?
Mark 35:22
Okay, up to February 1. Cali Cali is kalinya is a geographically under sekine Division but Calais majority of the people are as I said, the chin people we had here so me Mizzou and everything. Hokulea is the first CD or the first township town that fight back again the military you will heard about this behind the defense. So we fight we started from Calais in March. So and in Calais we have been protesting from February a peaceful protest. We started the street protesting on February 8 very strong peaceful protest. I think everybody out in the road and the robber few his people in Calais and at the time hochkar Township are they also protesting and for Lam township they also protesting pdma that even township also protesting in terms I'm also protesting most of the town, township they are nine township in in chin stitch in here, and I think most of the people are protesting there. And from the chin state up to can they have been fighting back to the military with the with the thing we have like to me or that manmade manmade can because they have been killing this civilian. So we are protecting in Calais on March I think 27 is the first first defense have been the first point peradventure I said, the first fighting have been broke out in March 2027. On March 28 it in Cali. And then now as you know Matt to be sorry, mean that mean that is fighting really, really really strong in the in the in the in the top. And even this morning, I have from Tech with one of the lady from mindat they are still in the jungles running with the old people running with the the women children. And the we are very worried for them. And so in support of them, our so many people from the team, we have been doing our very best like to support them humanitarian aids, in prayer, and even the Somi federal union group have walk all the way they have like some fight back in their region itself so that the tensions of the military will be spread in the chance they also hacker have fought back. So now I think more or less most of the township have been started making their voice heard through our local handmade. Can we call it to me, you also will read it on the news. So that's I think the brief story or the brief protests in our chain here and one of our main what is the main strategy is also CDM. Civil this obedient movement, so even for me, I work closely with this so me federal union, so under that only under one that under that umbrella up too much we have given 1300 plus cdms the support we can so this now now, the government is not giving the salary to education department to so the amount or the people who have joined to the CDM it's mounted into now around 3000 to 4000 in in our zoomy located area DDM and Townsend township I know. So it's in that two township alone is around 3000 to 404,000 cdmi that is one of the main strategy in the spring revolution to so in other township like like haka, like falam They are also doing the best they can, but my main access of the information I I'm very close so I'm very wise I know clearly office, many On the northern part of chin state moulders ob people
Host 40:07
right so you mentioned that for even from the very early days in March some chin people started fighting back. Can you explain in more detail what that involved in what ways were they fighting back
Mark 40:19
actually in March two three around there in Calais the military stuff he was violent or start should against the peaceful protests in Calais so in that peaceful protester group there, Bama there so me they are mizdow they are for lamb all the all the all the people from chillin included. So we that's the beginning where you know where this the military have started using their their their guns to their guns against the citizen. So from there we have been preparing and on March 27. We had that on the Armed Forces Day. We heard that there will be a big should think from the military side so our people have prepared in the hand where the zombie people are mainly located we prepared the wars that fought. We prepared a place where this peaceful protester can protest freely. So we have Kemet there in the in the hand where the most of the zombie people are located. And inside the camp. They Burma there are lots of people, all the tribe from Calais township have come inside the camp and we do peaceful protests together inside. So in 2018, the military have started shooting that camp in the hand. So there are lots of people dying there from the citizen side. And also there are lots of people dying in the military side. I'm not sure of the exact number but that is the first the first real fighting between the military and the civilian in the AMA using arms.
Host 42:20
I see and who was in charge of protecting their
Mark 42:23
camp, the in charges like we have a comedy committee it's in that committee was formed in February I think we were six in Calais, the the committee itself included Student Union and sort of zoomy union and all the civil civil organization of Calais. So we have lots of dialects. Now we have Bama, we have our under chin we also have miso and all that all the chin tribals included in the in the in the leading committee. So that nonviolent movements try comedy have arch the people of this township to protect so they form another committee to in charge of that, that wants to sit back and forth or diahann camp.
Host 43:19
Aha so there was this committee of nonviolent peaceful protesters of all different ethnicities and religions who banded together to want to come out to show their solidarity in peacefully protesting and a higher leadership that was also encouraging that unity
Mark 43:35
it's a camp, it's a camp inside the inside of the city. I just mentioned that can because we will they are standing staying together so who safeguard them or who protect them was also the people among the people from the city the citizen itself. When we have that peaceful protesting in the camp. Then the people have joined hand together and say that we have to protect these people with whatever we have. Maybe knife maybe our handmade gun guess gun or so they form it KCA you heard about collective army and the collective army we have lots of this. Watch lots of groups and lots of unit. And the case here we have so many unit and the case here that we have like so many federal army and the KC we have this missile unit and the KC we have this Burmese unit abama unit and the KC we have this falam unit under KCA we have this haka unit we have a different unit. So we form it together. We call we name it like KC collusive army. And we come and we protect these non violence people with with with this KCA collusive army. So protecting the sense that we are not well equipped with all the All the machine guns and all we just go there with our son go there with the bare hand knife and whatever we can from our home. So yeah, those are the people that Casey people who protect this nonviolence group. The first military first attacked the callee. In March two before that, they also attacked the citizen in other any other regions of the AMA. Also, like, in the Rangoon, they already killed some people in Mandalay, they kill some people. But what I mean is that the first the first fighting I mean, the the first citizen that who had fought back with whatever we have, what it was in Calais. Yeah, with the with the people of China and with the people of Burma, in Calais.
Host 45:50
So the military is taken over the country, there is a coup, they're trying to control every neighborhood big and small. And as you've mentioned, the first resistance on the part of the people that you know, of came from chin state came from Calais community. So why do you think it was of all the places in Myanmar that what does that tell us about about this region that this was the first one to start to stage a resistance?
Mark 46:21
As I said, I think our people, I mean, the zoomy, or the muzzle or these, whoever stay in the chin, chin state, we we, our culturally we are 100. So with our our own, to me, again, we used to hunt in the jungle of like, deer or like tigers, or that's the culture of our people that we go hunting. So we have our own handmade weapon, like almost every home in the chain here. So we are ready with the weapons and we are familiar, the people are also very, very familiar with a shooting of this handmade gun. So I think that is one of the thing. And also Calais is I should say it's a united people of different ethnic group, comma, their Chinese or their Indian or their, and among the chain that we have, as I say, we have seven or eight different dialect, right all of us, it's a city of United. So we all have our own suffering as a minority in the whole Obama. So we can come together, we can join together and when we speak it, it's louder than any other region of the of the country. I think that's the main thing.
Host 47:39
I've also heard that Chin's are considered quite independent, independently minded as a community. And that I've heard that as another explanation for some of the stand that chins have taken. Would Would you agree with that?
Mark 47:54
Yeah, I agree totally. Because before the before the, the union of Burma union of Myanmar was formed, we are independent. We have our own chief who have full us, then we will. We have been like, very, very independent people and have our own culture or have our own ways of living. So I think that is also one of the reasons I agree on what you said.
Host 48:23
The chin fart alongside the Americans and World War Two against the Japanese, right? Yep.
Mark 48:27
Yep. against the Japanese. And against the British too. Like when the when the the first time when the when, when the Japanese and Burmese army combined together, and we fought back the British, first time and the chin were included. And then the second time when we fought again, the Japanese, together with the British, then we will we will also there, especially in the chin Hill. But the voice of that was barely hard to this to the war.
Host 49:02
That's right. Yeah. And you mentioned on one hand, how independently minded many in the community are. And yet, you've also talked about this beautiful, wonderful sense of unity that you're feeling with me and more from all over the country and being united in a common cause. And so do you think and looking towards the kind of future that you want to build? Do you want to live in a pure pluralistic society where you're living with members of other ethnic and religious groups? Or do you think that chins would like to be a bit more independent and form their own land or their own territory
Mark 49:38
if they had that fredro lism is like one of the main topic it has been speak out to military coup, I think that will work on that will allow the people to decide what they want in the future. So I think that is good enough because this is up to To the people of the land that they will decide whether they will stay independent whether they will stay with the with the Burmese people. So I also strongly believe it in that it's totally depend on the people who have stay in the land. So maybe, I think it's it's independent in the sense that maybe in the future, I'm not sure but currently, to endeavor to, to to get independent out of this Yama and have our own country. It's not the not the intention of the people currently, maybe I don't know, after 50 years, 100 years, but currently, it's not. It's not the the the the major intention. Currently, what what the people want is that they want their voice or the one day voice to be heard, or they want their their rights to be respected. It's offering the overall what we want sovereignty. So if it is good for the people of Ching Lin to work together with the Burma SM Yama that will be good. If the sovereignty is better or sovereignty stronger if we have to move out of Myanmar and stay independent then that will be another way I think sovereignty and where our our wellness is being protected will be will be the future decision that our people will do.
Host 51:22
And can you tell me a little about these handmade Chun weapons that I believe date back to the 19th century resistance against the British
Mark 51:28
To me it to me is is a is the name of the gun that we use is a handmade handmade gun. Usually our people have chinle and have like every almost every house have those type of gun it's a handmade can we use them for hunting, hunting in the jungle we go to the jungle we hunt and this is the culture of our people and we do a lot of hunting. So have you made one of these guns out and make I'm not actually I'm not family? We're familiar with those to be good? Yeah.
Host 52:07
Right, right. What kind of what kinds of animals are usually hunted?
Mark 52:10
It's like deer deer loss in the chinian deer or then I will pick the I don't know the the the exact name it's a category and the pig it's a wild pig or a type of this world bots are there so yeah, especially like dia and all the all these lot before then we have like Tiger lions. We have a nowadays very few due to this protein protein.
Host 52:40
And then what is done with the animal products
Mark 52:44
I usually we the people have the chin heel they usually eat it and the skin and all they use for this chair or the tools that we use for for our house.
Host 52:58
Right so it's used for a number of different purposes. Yep. Yeah, that was actually a question I meant to ask you at the start of the interview about chin food
Mark 53:06
can you tell us a bit about what we can expect of cuisine if we were to roll into a local village in chin state lane you grow corn especially in his ob area, we may grow this corn and we dry it then we use it for our main food before before the rise and all we like easily transported to chin and we use this corn so it's very special. And I should say before our chin land food well not very popular. But nowadays it's become very popular. Even among the our Burma friend and because our before then we it's very hard for chin state to get even early staff and all the ingredients and all the salt and even salt is very difficult to get in chin here before so our food is mainly of steamed food and very less artificial thing so it's very healthy product I should say. But before that people don't usually like all this healthy stuff. But when it is in these days, this what you say this organic food is very popular becoming very popular. And our chin here food also now getting popular among even our Burmese friend because it's mainly of organic food, our food culturally, we don't use much of other ingredient is just the organic food, the water pure steam it then though so maybe if you come up to the country, it's a mix of it's like a porridge. But instead of rice inside the porridge, we use this corn, dry corn to put it in and that will be and we mix with some of the meat which we get from that Hunter from poaching. So that that will be I think, my was a statistic of a mass test for.
Host 55:11
That's great. That's great. I hope that some of our listeners get to get to try it someday, going back to these guns that are handmade, that are common in chin households, what, how are these guns different from other kinds of weapons? Like what what makes them a chin homemade rifle or, or gun? How are they constructed in such a way that they're unique from guns or weapons you'd find in other communities,
Mark 55:41
okay, in Nima having having this gun or machine gun is not allowed. But in chin here, this is our tradition. So they have given us few license before, from even before before from the independence so we have license. Again, those guns are as I said, to me, it's how long was that? Long, I should say, a long haul or what I don't know the name alone is handmade, then we have to put it in some gunpowder and, and some this iron ball. And they have to pound pound pound at it. And it takes around maybe two to three minutes to be ready to shoot one to let. So it's not like a machine gun, you just shoot in three, four bullets and go out No, it's uh, you have to prepare it. So that that is the type of gun we have, we have to pound the gunpowder inside the gun pipe gun can pipe and we have to be ready, it's take around two to three minutes to shoot one bullet. So it's not very want to say very suitable for the award like this even mean that they are very brave. That's why they do to come up with those can because when they shoot one bullet, they have to have like exact I can because it will take another two to three minutes to reload it. While the other military people they they they just press the trigger and they will be exact like numbers of bullets are coming up. It's It's the difference between those machine gun and our to me is that we have to reload and we have to take time two to three minutes every time we should.
Host 57:30
So these are not really good weapons to be using by security forces that want to resist the military.
Mark 57:38
No, it's not not not that good. Because we it's very, very risky, or it's take time. But I really respect the bravery of our brother and sister in mindat. Because they have come up with those weapons. Those who don't know, to me, they might just think that, okay, they have a gun, but it's totally different. Those gun and the gun that have military use. So they are very, very, very brave to stand up with those guns against the military.
Host 58:14
So we've been referencing mindat. And I'd like to focus on that, specifically now and go into some detail about what's been happening there should mention that this interview will be released sometime after we record. So for listeners that are hearing our talk now there certainly will have been more developments that we're not aware of in this conversation. Nonetheless, I think it's very valuable to be able to go back to the beginning of the siege and learn in more detail about what exactly has been happening there. So can you bring us to the beginning of this crisis and mindat and tell us what happened, why it happened and what's currently going on.
Mark 58:54
Okay, in mindat they have actually, the whole Boma have been as you know, after the coop, the military people they have brutally killed the citizen even in Minda and here mean that as I say mean that is in chin state. It's one of the one of the districts, we have nine districts in Shinsei and mindat is one of the districts and they have populations of I think around maybe 40 to 50,000 population. So they are very, very brave enough to come up again those military because according to the news, and according to the things that I heard from them was the military as user, they captures some of the peaceful protests. And when they released back some word that even students and now even children were included. So to defense, our citizen mean that people have to step up so that they this brutal oppression will be and in the mean that so that that's the the overall situation in Mindanao?
Host 1:00:13
And can you take us back to the beginning to the start of it for listeners that aren't familiar with the story, what has the military been doing in mindat? Okay,
Mark 1:00:23
so it meant that as I said, it's military coup. They they brutally, like heal the people of mindat people, they kill all over the Myanmar, they kill the people of mindat. And they especially the targeted to the cdms, who have protests against the government by not going to their work their target, and they pull out and they they care the people and they captured some of the men that are peaceful protester, or the military. So this mean that people come and join together under one one, or one force or the group it themselves, I think, and then they should back or they fight back against the military, because due to the oppression that they have been suffering in the region.
Host 1:01:16
Right, and you mentioned that you're also involved in providing relief and assistance for those that are living in mindat and that are facing this terror. So what is life? Like right now in mindat? Is there any sense of normalcy? What are the people doing? What are their needs right now?
Mark 1:01:35
It's Yeah, it's not normally at today morning itself, I talked to the as one of the woman who have formed as a healthcare and I talked to her, they are still under the under the jungle they are running and they said that they have some of the camp where people can come and stay there, but the military even come to those camp. So, they are in a very, very messy situation. And what they what they said is that they will need all the help they can they have they need food, they will come to need this shelter or tent, because the rainy season heavy rain incidents coming soon in our in our state in our country, they will need for the help they will need for basic medicines. So as for me, as its own Mute Group, we are trying to support them as much as we can through this mean that lady who is currently located in inside the mean that area and here one thing you have to know is that we can't even I send money or sending goods to them directly we have to send to other city around that mean that they have some of the people who can help them so we have to send to them then they will go up and secretly to the to the jungle or to the place where these people were hiding and they will help them in the in that way they are still in a very very messy situation they need all the possible help and even pray Ivan all the supporting wards and every possible way they they need help.
Host 1:03:13
Yeah, and we definitely encourage our listeners to keep them in their prayers. If you're Christian to send metta if you're a Buddhist or a meditator, whatever, good thoughts you can keep for people under the seed right now. And for those that are able to help financially that we are organization or nonprofit better Burma can receive those funds. And if you would like to earmark them for these people outside of mindat, then we can assure to get your donation to mark where it can go round about to reach safely the people because the military is trying to block all all aid and medical health food that is going to the people. So you mentioned that a number of people are fleeing, they fled their homes they're in the jungle people of all ages are are going are trying to hide deeper and deeper. So that are a number of people that are in flight. Are there also any that are in fight? Is there any resistance that is being staged right now to the security forces or is everyone going into hiding and retreat at the moment?
Mark 1:04:23
Yes, some security forces are still trying to find them but as I said the weapons are totally like unmatch they even say that if gun to gun then we are not afraid with our gun but they use this air strike. And now on the ground. People say that they even use this chemical, chemical weapons to so they can't unmatch those weapons but they are fighting in every possible way. They don't flee away. They are near the township. Those the different teams are near The Township, they are fighting back with all the possible way they can. And I think some of the groups are also helping them with the bear arms equipment, and it's not many just one to two flowing in it is also very difficult. So they are very eager to get their their own land which they have on and stay in that land for, for force for many, many, many centuries. So they they they tried to cut back their land, from the intruders of this Burmese military people. But currently the situation is that weapons don't match. So, they are getting all the help from every possible way that people are also trying to give them in through every possible way. And at least for us, as I said, if we we try to give them money or shelter for as much as we can, on the other hand on the other part of the country, or even like for for Soviet people, it didn't dawn Zambia making noises, voices, so that more attention will be spread out and more battalions will have to come in to address the other districts of the state so that the forces in mindat will be a bit reduced. Or when they had other people also standing up with them, they will have more courage, they will have more strains to work with the work with their people, because they are suffering suffering means they're the older people that you're in women's, they even reps the women's over there. So when we talk when I have a chance to talk to that lady that even cried through the phone to the strangers, like knew who they never met. So that is how tense The situation is over there. So yeah, they are raping the woman's they are killing brutality. They even say that I don't know, they they are they are like crazy. Are they high with some, maybe some of the some of the vaccine, they said because they are not like humans, they are very clear that because the she is when I talk to her first time, she's running with the all women and men and children. And she just cry. She didn't even know me. She just crisis, she said the only thing we can do is pray and run. So please pray for me. That we all we have pause our conversation like for 30 to 60 seconds. We never seen each other outside, we never know and before she cried because that the situation is damn tense over there. It's like a hell for that. So that that's why I asked you all the listener, whatever possible, we please help to the country, and currently especially mean that they are very, very much in need of your help you pray, your physical health, your mental health,
Host 1:08:01
how did that make you feel? having a conversation that was so emotional and traumatic with someone you haven't met,
Mark 1:08:08
it was like, very, very hard, very, very hard, because I can't do anything, I can't do anything. So the only thing I can do is I connect her to the organization as much as possible. I call to these ob zombie organizations outside of the country, if they can help with is every little money or everything and I call to the some of the group inside of Burma, where they are supporting, like medical supplies and all. That's the only thing I can do. And I asked and I asked our people to pray for them. And we have a pre pre session for them. And some of the some of the you to to make some noises or to to to to teach the military side so that attention will not only entrained to mean that, so that it will deviate the attention to the other other region to that's the only thing we can do. We we can do more than that. So it's very, very limited that we can help. Let's say I even have some of the medical boxes to enter into that. But the hardware block even medical supply will block by their by the military. That's a very tense situation. I can't I mean, I can't imagine how hard it will be for them.
Host 1:09:38
Right. Yeah, that's just a terrible situation to to be in and for. For what the Tamara's inflicting on these people. And you you mentioned airstrikes how bad the airstrikes been and mindat
Mark 1:09:57
okay as strike the they do it Strike a lot to mean that it did. Let me explain a bit about the situation in our chain here and other part like catchin. Korean, they have been fighting in this military for so long, like it's been centuries. So they know when the air strike come they have like dark or underground to hide, our children have been like we never protest, we just stay peacefully, sorry, we just stay peacefully and we just stay by ourselves. So we don't even have the experience of facing the airstrike. So the damage is much, much more than any any other part of the country due to due to unexpected or an inexperienced strike. And so that they they they burn out on lots of villages through air strike. And also, what they do is that they do transportation, they they block all the roads, and they do military transportation, through the helicopters inside them in that city. And they supply food to the military people through the helicopters. And they block all the entries of goods to the people who have stay inside the city itself with a lack of food, lack of medicine, and this airstrike apart from that they even targeted to the camp where those people are hiding. So it's that currently.
Host 1:11:30
And I've heard that in some communities, there's not even water.
Mark 1:11:35
Yeah, the water is very, very difficult, you know, in the, in the in the chain here. Water schools are quite difficult they have maybe I think they they will have to, that's my guess they will have to go to Mass through motorcycle, and get water for drinking and all that is very risky for them too. So yeah, they even need this gas for their bike to go and get some of the food secretly some of the water secret.
Host 1:12:05
When you mentioned how some of the other chin communities are making noise as you put it in making some distraction or diversion to decrease the numbers that are in mindat. It really strikes me I mean, number one, that's just an incredibly brave thing to do to purposely draw attention of a ferocious and drugged out military in order to relieve their presence elsewhere. But it also seems to be breaking a kind of norm that happened in previous generations and previous previous conflict where the military was able to inflict terrible horror and terror on one community and everyone else was so afraid that they stayed silent, they stayed indoors, they didn't do anything. They just hope that that if they just didn't go out or do anything themselves, then they would somehow be spared. And that was a strategy that really worked in the military favor of being able to terrorize whoever they wanted to while everyone else would just be so afraid they would just stay away from it and not want to draw any attention. And I remember in way back in February, in Yangon, I was just amazed at one night where they were I don't remember what district is was in Yangon, or what what day it was but I what night it was. But I remember that military forces had come to terrorize one particular community it might have been San channel. And because that they were quite active in the beginning. And even though there was a curfew, and it was like the middle of the night word started to spread. And every other community in the gone started to break the curfew and go out on their street and put themselves in mortal risk put themselves in danger violate the curfew laws that have been imposed by the military, to be able to relieve the pressure that was building on one place. And so the military had to disperse to respond to different threats. And that seemed to be very different from what we've seen before where people just kind of wanted to stay silent, stay at home, not raise their head keep themselves safe. So I'm curious if you also see a difference in the response in 2021, that more people are being courageous or taking risks or putting themselves out there and are not just kind of staying back and hoping that that they can spare themselves and that it can pass over but people are going out of the way when they don't need you to take risks in service of people that are at risk.
Mark 1:14:38
Yep, yep. That's that's the only thing we can do. And this that's the beauty I should say that unity that we see. During these our spring revolution, I think especially it started through the Generation Z because they are very, very, very quiet especially about politics Generation Z before and this time, the speaker Very loud, they attack people compared to other generation. So they use social platform wisely, and the voice were reached outside of the country and the voice and the message was spread through the whole country, they use different different type of attack, to get a message to any part of the country especially like in men that the internet have been shut down when they fight, but this you have the way to get the pictures this you'd have the ways to get the the the the message to come up. So, I really really respect the the unity that this time we have seen in the community, because the Burma the Zoghbi, the mizo the mean that we all have been like separated by a lots of lots of differences, but this time that have that have like genocide and the Unity have come together, if Monday, Mandalay was like stand up, if Mandalay had stand up for any protest and the other city has followed, even now, and a very tense situation that you would have this the country have, they still like even in Rangoon, they will be sitting in the tea shop, and they certainly do run into Street and strike for like five to 10 minutes, where they are very close with the real machine gun who like are normally should to the people, they are that break even in Mandalay, they sit together in the tea shop, they suddenly stand up and they sing a protest song. And even in like, Cali where I where I state, that you will go out to some places where their voice can be heard in a way that their their safety will be also like some extent, protected, they use different kinds of ways to express their, their their weight. And I see a lot of unity, I think if we can keep that up, that the victory is very, very near.
Host 1:17:12
Yeah. And as brutal and cruel as the military can be. We're seeing, in addition to this unity, an incredible type of intelligence and creativity and critical thinking on the part of the protesters to be able every day to reinvent the way they're going to respond to an ever changing environment of danger. And you mentioned the way that they're using tech, they're using social media and sharing Well, that's exactly what we're doing now, with this podcast platform, we're living in an age where in your small community, you're able to even with all the ways that they tried to cut internet, you're able to go to a place where you can get connected, we can have this conversation, this platform can carry this dialogue that we're having. And it will be heard by people all around the world that are able to learn from you and engage based on how you're sharing your reality and your talent and your community and what you're seeing day to day and those experiences. So we're also able to use tech in that way. And you are as well. And looking at you and your background. It sounds like you're you came from more of a business background it correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you did not have so much like an interest or involvement in politics or human rights or that type of thing. Is that correct?
Mark 1:18:40
Yeah, I'm not that much interested in politics. And mainly, my background, and my studies mainly on business. And people used to say, what, why are you doing all these things? And it's not about we are interested or not, it's about time that everyone has to have that that role because no business is running. Everything is shut down. So that the only thing and the only thing currently we can do is this this current political situation. We have to be interested in we have to make our interest in it. We have to do our best to involve in it. I'm not purely, I'm not from political background at all.
Host 1:19:23
So what has it been like for you to move from a background where you were really just trying to get ahead in business and coming from a small town community and trying to do the best you could for your professional career and moving into a completely different kind of life now of providing relief coordination, whatever else you're doing, how has that transition been?
Mark 1:19:45
It's a hard one. But I think it's a noble deed. What I can do currently, it's I feel like it's when we start phasing. It's everyone feeling that it's really, really hard. But everyone is doing currently what they can do. Not only me, we have access to this platform, that's why you heard my voice. But in Myanmar, everyone is doing the best they can, even like a PM, pattern point strike is one of the very few example that everyone is included in this in this stream for me to involve in this is like, quite hard. But this is our national call our duty for our generation to do whatever we can to fight again, this military, because here our youth are taking up guns, instead of they have to be in school study. And, and my only intention is I want them to be back in the school, I want them to be back in the football field where they want to be I want them to be back in the in the in the scenario where they are drawing, and where they are enjoying their own passions, not not taking gun and shooting each other. That's now the only the only thing what we are doing is to get back our own rights and our own freedom. So to this situation is really, really, really tense and really, really messed up. Because it's not what we wanted to do. Not only me, the whole country, overall, the whole country, our peoples are doing what, what we have to do, then we won, we really want to be get out of this, we'll try our best we'll be doing our best. Because it's not only the duty of politician, it's like the duty of everybody in the country.
Host 1:21:44
And as far as you're comfortable and sharing what can you tell us about the role that you've taken on and what you are doing to support the movement
Mark 1:21:53
currently support them. I'm closely working with these Omi people in the chain states. And so me we have so me federal union, it's grouped with the people who are interested in federa. I, we form a union under that we have different wings, we have defense, we have CDM support teams, we have non violence team, and like finance, and then we have teams. So usually when it needs to talk with the new G, or C rpH, or c ch or any other like international organization, then they use me as their spokesperson. And we have a comedy whereby we can support technically, to this zombie federal union. So in in that support team, I was there with support and technically, like they are draw the they are doing this, like constitute draft constitution, constitution, draft constitution. So those that I have to help them to get the real politicians or the real political expert to get into that comedy. So I'm technically support, supporting them, whatever ways I can, under this thing, because support teams, especially my duty is to, to to, to as the PR, and on the other hand to agassi to form the committee or their technical support team, as it is necessary
Host 1:23:36
for many listeners that are trying to follow along what's happening in Myanmar that are outside the country, and so not living in it, but trying to follow along and understand the best they can. What about the experience of being on the ground and being involved directly in the movement? Would you like them to understand what about the experience of what you're going through that you feel has not really been understood through social media or through reporting that is part of the story that's just getting missed? What would you like people outside the country to be able to understand about what is going on there and what the experience is like
Mark 1:24:18
the situation in the ground is like every movement, even like this interview and everything is come along with life risk. So a lot of rigs there in the in the ground. So that we need every possible way of support, like pray, even prayer and money, support, physical support all the support we needed. And we what we want, you have to understand is that even just a little voice that you shout out through the social media was very helpful to the people in the ground and on the other hand, we I will usually receive some of the strategy advice from outside the country, but we cannot pass those those like, true all the strategies to the US in the underground directly, because the under the life life threatening situation if they move a bit they have to be very, very careful otherwise they their life is under threat. So, sometimes the the strategy advised by the outside world, how we can no use some of them, because the US as I said they are under very life threatening situation. On the other hand, they are not experts, are we an expert in the war war situation, because, as I say, we come from very, very different, different backgrounds. So, we are doing our best in the ground, that we need every possible help and the ground. And please like, do support us in whatever we do. And, yeah, I think that that that will be the message I'd like to give.
Host 1:26:07
So on this platform, you know you you're you're able to speak to a wider audience, and people from all around the world, in their own walks of life are able to hear your voice, hear your story about what you're going through. And we covered a number of topics through my questions, but I want to make sure that you have the chance to express yourself for anything you would like to get out there that my questions or the discussion has not covered so far. So is there anything else that you want to make your voice heard, to people listening,
Mark 1:26:42
I think it's about love, we have to get an respect that we have to get and share among every other people. Because before we come into this type of mess situation, we never thought that those love caring or respecting other other view, other point of view have been not that valuable. Now, when we under this tense situation, I mean, maybe most of the listener will have a very good environment where they can have respect. And so I want you to treasure it, that please spread those very good messages as much as you can. And that will prevent all the war in the war. Because now as we are suffering, and I heard recently, the Israeli and her mother, people are also suffering but the I had the ceasefire that's very good. And we won every war on the war to be add. That's the duty of all the people who are listening to that I should say, because without this peaceful without this love without without care to each other without respecting each other, there wouldn't be a good society. So please do do pray and help us in that. And especially like chin state, we are one of the poorest. We are one of the poorest states in the ummah. And, and also we have, as I said, we have different dialects compared to other states have like seven to eight dialect, which we cannot understand each other too. So we have a lot of differences. So we are, we are denied, think through all those differences. And in the future too far recovering of the country, the states and the people we will need a lot of support. Especially what as a new federal union we are expecting is after this fight, we have to fight with the support of the people and up to this fight. We want our people to have a good education, a good mindset education, a good physical and a good academic education up to this war. So maybe I want in every possible way, if you can support the country, the state and the people in the chin state with education that will be that will be a very, very great help for long run. That's that's what I want to point out here. Because our country needs a good education system. So that our thinking of mindset will be wider. And it will we can have a very good harmony, harmonious society very soon. Thank you.
Host 1:29:33
Yeah, thank you for that. And I also want to ask you had mentioned that growing up in your life, Christian faith and Christian teachings played a really great role and your outlook and perspective in life and through these very difficult days. Sometimes people do fall back on their faith on their religious teachings on their spirituality, to get through some of the worst times imaginable. So has you Christian faith been a source of support and inspiration for you? And if so, how has it been something helpful at this time?
Mark 1:30:13
I should have made that I pray a lot more than before. And yeah. Bible verses which I've memorized when I was a child never been as helpful as this period. Which which Bible verses which what I like some some some 23 that's something to treat handy for that. That's currently which we recite a lot but in our own dialect, of course, in we usually by had them by by Burmese it's usually of some 23 our periodic identity normally are the same I can say no, no, no, no. He said, I'm retired Amina Roland, Cara Marina, when you are tuning know, when you're actually you know, to Luna material to do lamb Pusan. Normally, it's a verse of some, some 23 it's called is my shepherd. I shall not one. I think that's the that's, that's a voice I think of getting identity. And I will not be like, poor and only and in terms of like, travel and in terms of is it like, difficult situation, He will guide me through the valley. And if I walk through the value of that, I think you will be enlightened. So so like, maybe my my leader, my mentorship, something like that?
Host 1:31:40
And why has this verse been of such inspiration and support to you during these days?
Mark 1:31:46
Okay, I think that's the vital verses that maybe my parents have been, like, let me lead be by heart for so many long ago, that never been like a life in my life, than currently when we come to this type of like a very, very dark situation. So it's probably in my mind, that it's very inspiring, and it's very heartwarming, as by the Bible faces, and also, unexpectedly, most of the my Christian friends, they know it. So it is one of the things that we can we can recite together.
Host 1:32:29
So sometimes when you meet your colleagues, after a hard day, you come together and you recite this verse together,
Mark 1:32:36
you have some time yet not all with all because here we have some more very, very much strong religion, some very, who are not that strong religion, some Buddhists are there. So we have to respect their their belief too. So sometime, how we recite together when we come with, like, the friend who, whom we like really close, and which is sometimes we say that.
Host 1:33:00
That's wonderful. That's beautiful. Thank you so much for your time with us here today. And I will definitely keep you in my thoughts and my meta, and I'm sure that other listeners well as well. And wishing you success, wishing you safety. And thank you so much for making use this platform to be able to share your voice and your experience to the rest of the world.
Mark 1:33:24
Yep, thank you very much for your time, then, please share our voices so that the good message or will be spread more as much as it can. Thank you very much.
Host 1:34:30
As inspiring as it was to hear today's guest. I know from experience that when you're listening from so far away, there can also be a certain kind of helplessness in hearing about the struggle that people like them are now engaged in. Thankfully, we have organized a reliable way for interested listeners to provide valuable assistance to those local communities. All donations will be sent to support the protesters currently resisting the military coup. By taking an active role in helping support the movement. You can ensure that people like today Speaker have even a few more resources to draw on and can manage even another week more in their efforts. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are resisting the military coup, we welcome your contribution in any form of currency or transfer method. every cent goes immediately and directly to funding those local communities who need it most. Donations go to support such causes as the civil disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, and the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies. Or if you prefer, you can earmark your donation to go directly to the guests you just heard on today's show. In order to facilitate this donation work, we have registered a new nonprofit called better Burma for this express purpose. Any donation you give on our Insight Myanmar website is now directed to this fund. Alternatively, you can visit our new better Burma website, which is better Burma one word.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause, and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me slash better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo, GoFundMe and cash app. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to those respective accounts, or email us at info at better burma.org. In all cases, that's better Burma. One word, spelled b e t t e r, bu r Ma. If you would like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration. Whatever you're gonna do, you're gonna get busier and busier. yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. We've been listening to the Insight Myanmar podcast, we'd appreciate it very much. If you could rate review and or share this podcast, every little bit of feedback helps. You can also subscribe to the Insight Myanmar podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever else you get your podcasts to make sure you don't miss any of our upcoming episodes. If you can't find our feed on your podcast player, please just let us know and we'll ensure it can be offered there in the future. Also, make sure to check out our website for a list of our complete episodes, including additional text videos and other information available at Insight myanmar.org. And I also invite you to take a look at our new nonprofit organization at better burma.org. There was certainly a lot to talk about in this episode, and we'd like to encourage listeners to keep the discussion going. Make a POST request specific questions and join in on discussions currently going on. On the Insight Myanmar podcast Facebook group. You're also most welcome to follow our Facebook, Instagram and Twitter accounts by the same name. If you're not on social media, feel free to message us directly at info at Insight myanmar.org. Or if you'd like to start up a discussion group on another platform, let us know and we can share that form here. Finally, we're open to suggestions about guests or topics for future episodes. So if you have someone or something in mind, please do be in touch. We would like to take this time to thank everyone who made this podcast possible. Currently, our team consists of two sound engineers, Mike pink and Martin combs. There's of course Zack Kessler, content collaborator and part time co host, Ken pranskey helps with editing and a special Mongolian volunteer who was asked to remain anonymous does our social media templates. In light of the ongoing crisis in Myanmar, a number of volunteers have stepped in to lend a hand as well. And so we'd like to take this time to appreciate their effort and our time of need. And we're always on the lookout for more volunteers during this critical time. So if you'd like to contribute, definitely let us know. We'd also like to thank everyone who has assisted us in arranging for the guests we've interviewed so far. And of course, we send a big thank you to the guests themselves, for agreeing to come on and share such personal powerful stories. Finally, we're immensely grateful for the donors who made this entire thing possible. We want to remind our listeners that the opinions expressed by our guests are their own and don't necessarily reflect hosts or other podcast contributors. Please also note that we are mainly a volunteer team, we do not have the capacity to fact check our guest interviews. By virtue of being invited on our show. There's a trust that they will be truthful and not misrepresent themselves or others. If you have any concerns about the statements made on this or other shows, please contact us this recording is the exclusive right of Insight Myanmar podcast and may not be used without the expressed written permission of the podcast owner, which includes video, audio written transcripts or excerpts of any episodes. Also not meant to be used for commercial purposes. On the other hand, we're very open to collaboration. So if you have a particular idea in mind for sharing any of our podcasts or podcast related information, please feel free to contact us with your proposal. If you would like to support our mission, we welcome your contribution. During this time of crisis, all donations now go towards supporting the protest movement in Myanmar to our new nonprofit better Burma. You may give by searching better Burma on PayPal, Venmo cash app, GoFundMe and patreon as well as via credit card at better burma.org slash donation. You can also give right on our Insight Myanmar website is all donations given there are directed towards the same fund. And with that, we're off to work on the next show. So see you next episode.