Transcript: Episode 15, COVID-19 in Myanmar: Sheltering in Place

Following is the full transcript for the interview with foreign expats who stayed in Myanmar during the pandemic, which appeared on July 17, 2020. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.

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Host  00:01

Thanks for making time for our voice here on the Insight Myanmar podcast. It is a dream to be creators on a special project. And every listener and meditator who benefits in any way from our work only adds to our sense of satisfaction. So we just want to take this time to give a gentle reminder that our work is 100% listener supported. All of us behind the curtain are meditators, with some volunteering their time and others offering a generous discount on their professional services. However, we can't produce episodes without finding a way to keep the lights on. So if you'd like what you're hearing, stick around for the donation request and consider giving to help us continue our mission. Thanks and enjoy the listening that follows

01:12

If we are complacent and don't do really

01:14

aggressive containment and mitigation, the number could go way up in many, many millions

01:19

to be isolating patients and emphasizing social distancing.

01:24

The Corona virus outbreak is now

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COVID-19 can be characterized as a fundamentally one of the worst affected countries. The supply chains are being disrupted around the globe this combination of

01:46

Corona virus outbreak is now changing.

01:51

We will realize

01:53

an opportunity

01:54

situations please make your compassion and kindness

01:59

to the people

02:03

Do COVID-19

02:06

become more supportive?

02:10

Cancer

02:12

is time to, to grow and down,

02:15

kick out your negative minds.

02:17

become closer to chat, please send emit to all over the wall all over the universe. See change

02:28

and less, work hard, more and more,

02:32

be more Sandy loving kindness. People can help you with whichever

02:39

thing you

02:41

see some positive aspects of this Corona crisis. We all want to

02:46

see that in a sense,

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that brings people also closer together,

02:50

people getting closer together and watching out for each other.

02:54

We have more time for our families for the community and time to Meditate, please make your compassion and loving kindness.

03:04

It was kind of actually very warm and very angry kind of

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stabilize their heart.

03:14

This reminder of this

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uncertainty of life, but we don't know. See what we can

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do and what we cannot do, what we can accomplish

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and what we cannot

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remember peace in the face of suffering.

Host  03:30

Welcome to the fifth episode in our ongoing COVID-19 in Myanmar series. Up till now we've completed episodes featuring local Burmese voices, women, monks and exiled ex Pats. For today's show, we bring you sheltering in place. This particular episode contrasts with the previous one in the series, which told the stories for expats who left just before the world closed down. The current show relates to the stories of four expats who were living in Myanmar at the time the pandemic hit and made them decision to remain in the country and right out the storm and the golden land. The reasons for staying are quite diverse. One is committed to remain with this local partner who is from Yangon. Another was meditating in upper Myanmar and didn't wish to leave this Dhamma environment. A third overseas a business and charitable mission of providing meals as many poor are beginning to go without food. And the fourth has a wife daughter and the golden retriever to care for and decided that uprooting them was the harder choice. Although Myanmar has thus far been saved by the brunt of the coronaviruses impact. As of this recording in mid July, there have been just 331 cases. At the start of the pandemic, there was massive concern about the damage that would be caused if the virus swept through the country. Given the poor infrastructure and depleted healthcare system, for the time being Burmese are holding their breath as the virus is being kept at bay for whatever reason, and the government has just confirmed that heavy restrictions will remain in place for foreign visitors until at least October. But at the time that the four guests on today's podcasts had to make a decision as to what to do next, there was fear of a possibly catastrophic unknown. With that, let's get right to a program. We know that this continues to be a challenging time for many people out there listeners included and we wish you to keep safe and healthy. First up, we hear from hampus Harrelson, a Swedish Yogi who had planned a series of courses, self retreats, travel and Buddhist study in Myanmar this year, he was taking a meta course at chemi, a main monastery in Pune, Lin when the pandemic hit, he decided not to return home, and his Burmese monasteries and meditation centers began to close their doors to foreign practitioners. He had to find a place to continue his practice.

Hampus Haraldsson  05:49

Hello, everyone. My name is hampus and I'm a Swedish Yogi. Right now staying at a tea forum outside of Pune Olin around two hours from Mandalay and the tea farm is sort of an eco friendly guest house. Now with just three Yogi's staying here because of the virus. And I ended up here because I went to a meditation retreat at the Shang Yang meditation Center here in outside of inulin. And it felt like the easiest way to not to travel so far and just stay put in a nice environment with a lot of nature. So we stay in 10th we basically have the whole place for ourselves. And when we arrived, they were quite scared actually. So they greeted us with plastic gloves and face masks and just help you Quite spooky set up somehow, like, not really having any experience with the virus before coming here, just being inside the meditation center when this whole pandemic started to explode basically in all the countries shutting down and so forth. But we had a kind of recommendation letter, you could say maybe from the meditation center. So which told that we don't have any symptoms and that we basically been staying in monasteries for many months. So after that, they can relax to cough, the gloves and the face mask as well. And now, we're still the only guests here. It's been like three weeks and because of like, we have not really been able to go outside they've started cooking for us. So Yeah, they really been helping us to, to be able to get food and everything we need in order to be here in a relaxed way. I feel quite fortunate during these times to be able to stay so close to nature and having other Yogi's together here with me. It has made me able to keep the practice and go up early in the morning do walking and sitting meditation before breakfast. And a couple of days ago, I did a solo retreat here. telling my friends that I will be silent for three days and shutting off my phone and just tapping into what's really present in me in this moment. And my main goal being basically to get rid of some of the bad habits patterns that I've been developing during this time of going online and not really knowing how to cope with the situation and all the uncertainty and just falling back into some bad habits of thinking and action and talking everything actually. And it was really helpful. And next to our tent, there's a big tree. Nice shade. So since the first day, I've been having a nice setup underneath there was a mosquito net that the meditation center, so kindly donate it to me to, to to bring along and so I've spent many hours there and yeah, it's been very calming and really helping me to, to, to like tune out from This big dramatic scenario that's now playing, playing out in the world and somehow bringing back some control of how I should respond to this change in Yama and in the world in general and how to really find good way to, to incorporate this in my way of being but not making it into some kind of strong, fearful thing that will just keeps me from really Understanding and realizing what I really should do with my time and my life here now me Emma. And I basically am quite happy with staying here. It's just all this regulation now makes it really difficult for me to, to really know what what I can do. And what's my next step. I'm quite okay not be able to do anything now in April just being here and waiting and seeing how things develop. But in May, I am hoping that some meditation centers or monasteries will open up the gates again and allowing us who clearly don't have any symptoms to enter and maybe finding some balance way to cope with this virus now being a part of our existence here now in the world. And I'm thinking that one way to do this could be to, to have like people in separate rooms to have big space between people in the dining hall and in the meditation hall and maybe quarantine people before they entered the monastery. And the big thing that's going to happen next is of course, the Vasa the rains retreat. And as I've understood, the custom order, tradition says that you should arrive a bit early. So that means that some monasteries should open again in June in order for the Vasa but if that's not happening, maybe I'll try to leave the country and go somewhere else. But I still have faith that the three rains retreat will happen and that I will find a nice place to stay. During the global outbreak of the virus, I was deep in a meditation retreat in the Shang Yang Yang center and this retreat came to have three distinct parts for me. The first week was a normal retreat with noble silence and not any connection with the outside world, not even with the Yogi's inside. And the second week, where things really started to escalate. Our teacher Ron Jani decided to drop the bomb one evening before the chanting and now things really started to to change even for us Considering we were international group with many people having plans to leave the country afterwards, we really need to now to stop the the disconnection or like the inner part of the retreating and to look out and see if the flights were still going and if everyone was okay in their own countries and so forth. And in the dining hall, the first days we had like a information sheet with all the new regulations taking place, but that information slowly, we're not enough for changing too rapidly. So, in the end, quite a few Yogi's had to rebook their flights and change their plans and really leave the country sooner than they wanted to. And the third week, me and yasuhito were the only international yoga still in the center. And now we were joined together with the Burmese Yogi's, they were maybe 15, or something like that. So suddenly we were being group again. And now my plans in April, as for almost everyone else, they were not really happening. So then suddenly I didn't really know what to do anymore. And I asked decided or if I could stay, but this being like a one month retreat and the new guidance or the new and the new regulations, and the new regulations from the government being that all the people in the monastery should go home. My saddle in the center, he didn't really want more people there. So that's why me and this Japanese man ended up in a guest house close to the center now. And I know that some of my friends now there are still in the monasteries, because this cya dose they did because these silos, they felt that they could challenge this regulation from the government and just feeling like okay people can stay because all of us being on the inside of the monastery were of course no problem because we didn't have the virus so and because the water festival not really happening now in the monasteries. seeing so many of my fellow meditators leaving and that the opportunity for me to do the same was soon This appear. This could upgrade a lot of fear and doubt in me and my decision to stay longer mem. But it really helped me being in a meditation center and having the clarity of mind that that kind of environment gives you and to make a big decision like that. But of course regret, my decision could soon come. But making the decision with such deep sense of common connectedness, I'm still confident that this was the right choice. And also having a new meditation is so unfinished during that time, and knowing that it was much worse in Sweden and in Europe than in Miyama. The decision didn't seem so bad stay actually. And in the end, it also felt like the Dhamma we're now expecting of me to stay here a bit longer. And to stay put, and face whatever happens. already having an experience of coming out of a retreat during a crisis, the Indian money crisis 2016. This situation didn't seem that difficult to me. But of course, this might change. But knowing that the Burmese people have faced many difficulties over the years, I feel quite confident they know how to handle this situation mentally, if it should last for a long time. So when you're traveling like this, you always get an identity, whatever you like it or not. And having to leave the life of meditator and Yogi in the Burmese monastery behind something you needed to take its place. So now, becoming a stranded foreigner instead. Even sometimes, A tourist, I suddenly needed to consider things like cost per day, how to get food and getting full control of every hour of my day again. After four months meditation, this last thing, getting the control didn't feel so bad. And I was a bit curious also to see how life has changed outside now with the virus and to face those challenges. We were quite lucky that we and these other two former Yogesh, we found a nice guest house and cheap enough so we could stay there for one or two months. But now, because of that, we have to renounce some of the luxuries we had in the center. But I mean, that's a part of the practice, I think to just adapt to the new circumstances so now I don't have my own room and I don't have so easily available electricity but after a few days this is turned into normal and not that difficult if you like the people around you. The governor government has made it almost impossible for us to move or do anything with our new mobility so far. So being behind the T for arms locked gate feels very similar. Being behind the monasteries. Yeah, sometimes almost like a joke. We're lucky we didn't get stuck in a hotel because the hotel is not really made to stay in for weeks on end. Just having one room to move can easily turn into a prison. I think we've now a scary world outside. So it's no surprise we heard about the Westerner, flipping out at her hotel Recently the spaciousness of the tea forum feels like a mental lifesaver right now. With weeks going by with a sense of ease. And the small changes we can make like moving our chair or walking in different areas and seeing nature develop. I think that's really, really important right now. To stay here now at the tea forum, waiting, it means we need to accept whatever few possibilities we will get in the future. And as a stranded tourist, I will probably leave quite soon. But as I'm meditating Yogi, I might not feel that much difference. So that's why I think I should stay. If I have a choice, I will continue to use my visa for its purpose of meditation. Being in Myanmar has always been an opening experience for us. A time when I managed to face things in myself that I've been trying to escape before, who this self defense mechanisms. And this time was, of course being special. The opening now not only being about suffering in my own mind, but on a much more interpersonal and systemic level. And it has helpfully forced me and probably many others to see the bigger picture of this samsara the virus has spread shown me all these connections, how much we affect each other and how rapidly our civilization actually can change. There's a reason to do it. If enough people agree to support new ideas, things seem to move. So I'm thinking when this crisis ends, let's not forget That power but each one of us cultivating our mindfulness and wisdom and compassion and loving kindness and so forth that that brings, it becomes much more likely that this power that we have is guided by right faults speech and actions. So wherever you are listening now, your practice gain a sense of urgency during this standstill and when the world and we can start moving, then maybe we together can push things forward to a much nicer future.

Host  23:42

Next, we check in with Mark short, the founder of sabar street food tours. Mark's love of food led to the development of this business and also made him aware of how local vendors were being impacted by the sudden loss of revenue once the city shut down. Partnering with the organization food, not bombs, Me and mark. He led a fundraising effort to buy food from these vendors and offer it to underserved communities in downtown Yangon and Ladin for those who would like to help his cause. Please find his page on Instagram at sabar street food Facebook at Saba street food tours and on the web at sabab street food tours.com.

Marc Shortt  24:22

So my name is Mark shore and I run sabar street food tours, which is a food tool company based in Yangon, Myanmar. We do different food tours, market tours, cooking lessons, and some street food catering. I am I first came to me in 2012 and I came here initially as a volunteer English teacher which then turned into being paid for English teacher was here for a year. And 2012 very interesting time to come. So one reason I tend to minimize because I have some family connections. My dad was born here and that was a few generations of my family that lived here before him. And I wanted to come and explore my ancestral roots. So, after being here for a year in 2012, I kind of headed back to Europe, but was missing this place the whole time. So came back in 2017. And, as per usual for me, I love exploring food. I love food. Food is One of the ways that I like to explore a country and so that's what I've been doing in Lima. And yeah, very gratefully managed to be able to turn my my interest and passion for food into a profession into starting up a small toy company, whereby we can take people around and introduce them to all of the diverse and amazing foods that exist in Malmo also help people to explore me and my culture, my history, bar, fruit of food. And also allow people to get to allow tourists and visitors to get to see the real faces and people and real situations in in downtown Yangon. As we go to all sorts of small street tea shops and stolz and yeah, I have a lot of fun showing people what's cooking in Yangon. We have a small team of local me and my guides are also foodie and experts who yeah we spend spend our time showing people what's cooking in younger. Yeah, they're in a completely different organization but they're been doing like cooking food and giving it away for a few years now. So they're experts on where these people are who needed most, which we didn't know really at first. So Food Not Bombs, were able to be a great help and show us where best we can donate the food. Well, we saw the the wave of Corona creeping up on me and Mar and creeping up on on Yang Gong. And yeah, we didn't go down into kind of locked down here until I think it was March the 23rd. Which was a little bit after some other countries that we saw happening to so seemed like society and, and downtown was was carrying on quite staunchly, up until that point. And then when the country had to go into lockdown and also didn't jam, the Myanmar New Year or the Miramar water festival was coming up which was essentially shut down. This year. It's usually a huge celebration. I'm super busy time super busy time for vendors as well. Who selling food to the partygoers and the revelers. And so yeah, they began the situation that the markets died being closed down just a few few markets that people are able to shop out. Also food vendors were being shut down. street vendors weren't able to, to sell out on the street anymore. And also people weren't going outside. So that meant there was no customers for street vendors. And also less customers going to the market to support the vendors there. Now, I live in downtown Yangon. I'm always out and about, if not for work, but personally, I know a lot of the the street food vendors and the market vendors and also the tri shore guys who we use on our tours and also I use for just riding around downtown in myself so and yeah, I do even during lockdown, I'd be going out going to the market to buy bits and bobs. I needed and I could I couldn't help but notice that things were getting a bit desperate for people and still are. And most of these people, they don't have a financial safety net. Like in some parts. In the West. There's government's trying to to give handouts and support to people. A lot of people here are relying on their savings. So yeah, I wanted to try and do something And to help these people and and just try and do something positive at the moment because everything's so negative in the news and yeah, it's pretty rough situation. And even for my business we we don't have any customers because we we deal with most of the visitors do Yangon, of which there really isn't any at the moment. So yeah, good opportunity to just not be stagnant, too. And, yeah, I think this is really important to try and do positive stuff at the moment. So that's what we're trying to do. People many people are living day to day especially in terms of finances. You know, some people are very low wage. Some people are making 3000 jobs to 3000 jobs a day in some cases, which is less than, less than $2. So when when COVID is affecting the economy like it is in in Miramar and Yangon it trickles down, and it's trickling down to those people who aren't in a position to hunker down, stay indoors and rely on savings. So, yeah, I think it's important that those people aren't forgotten about at the current time. I really wanted to support the vendors in some way. I didn't want them to think that they've been forgotten about. Yeah, I really wanted to find a way to We could support the vendors, because I didn't want them to think that they'd been forgotten about at the moment. And what they do best as they can cook food. And normally there's people in downtown who would really welcome some food at the moment and the morale booster. If we can provide one meal for them in a day, then that's a little bit of extra cash that they can keep in their pocket, maybe put it towards something that they need. And some of the communities that we go to there's big families. Some people have multiple kids and young kids. Even lots of babies will come running out with the parents when we come to bring the food. So really wanted to try and try to find a way to help them Yeah, we came up with a process of working with the vendors to cook their food and then be able to give that away. So I am unfortunately, it's not something that sauerberg and can do on its own and fund on its own. So I put an announcement out on Facebook, asking people if they'd be willing to donate. And yeah, people responded, and it was pretty amazing. kind of shocked in the first 48 hours, we'd raise maybe over $1,000 and Initially we were working on a on a budget of approximately $45 we could buy 100 portions from certain street food vendors. So that meant for $45 we could essentially give people a feed for yeah for $45 100 people. And since then we've expanded it a little bit.  So we also buy some fruits and vegetables from market vendors, which we then give away to the people who need it. We also buy some water, which we make sure that we buy from small family-run stores. And then also, we employ some trishaw rider-- sidecar sayas, sidecar guys, who operate in downtown. They've also been quite seriously affected by the COVID situation because they're one of those services where, people will, if they're struggling for money, they'll choose to walk instead of riding a trishaw. Also, trishaws are used a lot in markets to carry food around or help the vendors set up. Now if those markets have been closed down or moved on, that has a knock-on effect with the trishaw riders as well. So as part of this program we're employing trishaw riders with a donation who come around with our volunteers. They carry the food and they help us distribute it. So the three main groups that we're trying to help with this are: One, the street food vendors who cook the food, and we pay to cook the food. Two, communities in downtown, the homeless or hungry. And number three is the trishaw guys who are also in need of a little bit of money at the moment. And they're able to use their skills and help us with the distribution too. Sa Ba, we're always dealing with the street food vendors, on our tours, but also we do some street food catering. So we work together with street food vendors, we find the best street food vendors who make a particular dish. And then altogether we go to events, parties, NGOs, sometimes for embassies... we will cook up the food fresh for people at the party or at the event, and that can be for like 100 or sometimes even 200 people and yeah, we have good connections with these vendors and the people in downtown so it wasn't too difficult for us to arrange that side of things. And the problem for us was knowing where is the food most needed. And where are the people that would welcome free food most. So I've known about 'Food Not Bombs' for a while in Yangon. They're doing some really cool stuff, distributing food to people who need it most all over Yangon and various parts outside of Yangon too. They're really nice crew so I contacted one of the guys at the organization who runs it there. Kyaw Kyaw, he is a quite a famous punk in Yangon, too, and in Myanmar. And yeah, he and his crew were happy to come and join with us. And when we got started, they took us around spots in downtown. And it was, you know, quite a shocking surprise in some cases, because there were places that actually we didn't know existed to the extent that they do. So some little tucked-away communities with 50 people living in pretty poor conditions. Working in jobs which aren't very reliable, and during COVID many of them don't have jobs. Also these people in these communities knew the 'Food Not Bombs' crew before as well and they have a good relationship with them. So 'Food Not Bombs' were able to hook us up with them, and let them know that we're also coming in the afternoons to bring down food too. So prior to this, I didn't really have any experience working in something like this. So it's been a really incredible experience to see the people that were able to help and to see how happy the people are to receive the food. And yeah, I just think it's really important to do positive stuff and help your local neighborhoods at this time. Well, no one really knows how long we're going to be feeling the fallout of COVID so we have our donations. We reached a point of $7,000 which is going to allow us to keep going for quite some time. We're also now looking at setting up similar donation in another area of Hledan, which is in Yangon, as well. And it's an area where our friends 'Food Not Bombs' have told us that there's plenty of people who would welcome free food in the evenings. At the moment we're trying to get this all set up. At the moment we're relying on the help of volunteers. For each for downtown location and lay down location volunteers who can help find vendors who are out of work or in need of some support. You can cook the food for us. And then we're volunteers on Sundays, we all go together and we have the extra hands and manpower to hand it out. And at sabar, it's, it's only just me. And one of my former staff, she's now volunteering, and she's a local girl. So we're trying to organize and run it together there. Now, like I said, Yeah, for the future, we don't know how long this is gonna go on for so Yeah, we're just ticking along. And I didn't know what to expect when we set this up. I definitely wasn't expecting as much generosity and kindness and enthusiasm from people who want wanted to support this has been kind of really touching to see the people share the same love and enthusiasm that we have for the downtown Street Scene downtown street food vendors scene. Because for anyone who's ever lived in Yangon ever been to Yangon. They know that one of the most amazing things about the places the life and atmosphere, the ambience of people on the streets just doing their thing. That's the entertainment. And yeah, people want to support that. It's been really amazing to see that people want to get behind it. And and help out. So yeah, we're willing to keep doing this. You know, we have have to run a business at some point as well. So let's see if there's a tourist season that comes along this year. But yeah, we're definitely committed to helping helping all these people out. And yeah, we welcome. We welcome anyone who wants to come along and support us as well.

Host  44:42

The initial funds that allowed us to set up this Insight Myanmar podcast came unexpectedly, and we did our best to stretch them as far as possible. Unfortunately, that generous startup donation could not have predicted the pressing need to cover our exploding health crisis, and meeting the interest and concern many meditators. have expressed about the situation at Burmese monasteries and meditation centers. So, if you would like to hear podcasts that address this new content, or assist others in being able to access them, please consider making a donation to fund this work. Most all podcast contributors work entirely as volunteers. And those few receiving remuneration are meditators who have offered 50% or more discount for their professional services. Nonetheless, there is still no real way to produce an episode for less than several hundred dollars. Whatever funds we are able to collect now will be used solely for producing these new episodes, and any additional donations will allow us to increase our run thank you for your support, stay safe and be well. We welcome your contribution in any amount, denomination and transfer method you may give via patreon@patreon.com slash Insight Myanmar via paypal@paypal.me slash Insight Myanmar, or by credit card by going to Insight myanmar.org slash donation In all cases, that's Insight Myanmar one word. I en si gh T. MYAN ma R. You can also go to the GoFundMe site and search inside me and mark to find our present campaign. If you are in Myanmar and would like to give a cash donation, please feel free to get in touch with us. Now we talked to yokan. Meisner, an Austrian meditator in the CG Oba kin tradition and the founder of Uncharted horizons, which runs trekking and biking expeditions into LA and chin state. To learn more about his work and support the charitable efforts he is now engaged in, please visit his Facebook page to learn more.

Jochen Meissner  46:42

I live in Myanmar since 2012, eight years now. And I'm in Yangon right now at the moment. And we also since several weeks under more or less semi lockdown here we still have some freedom To go outside, still practice sports that I cannot go to any pagodas, for example to practice meditation, they're all closed. But I was actually quite good in Yangon. I'm working in my own little tour company. And actually I was begin middle of March I was traveling with guests in remote chin states in the mountains at the border to India. Before there was Corona a little bit in the news, but it was distance distant thing happening in China somewhere. This was in the first two weeks of March winder was every day news Oh, now in this country there suddenly tenten everywhere. So this was the time and especially then I returned back to Yangon on the 13th of March in London. It's When it really started since the time I mean young, I couldn't go anywhere. Get back to Yangon. middle of March. Yeah, friends starting. We're starting to go back to their home countries. There were these repatriation flights. I was thinking only for a short time. Should I go back to Austria but I'm living here in Myanmar since eight years and it's my home. I feel at home here. My partner is here so I don't have much in Austria anymore. So I would have a place at my mother's place to sleep but but but it was never really an option for me. So it was a easy decision to stay here in Myanmar. And I never regret it. When I saw our experts moving back to their countries, was mostly embassy stuff. Working for the UN or big NGO so they were simply called back by their employers or by the governments but I'm self employed I have my own company here so i i saw no reason to go back. I always felt safe very safe here in this country in the end I still do and I had no issues at all I hear from other friends who live like who are experts in India or in Thailand, Vietnam, for example, quite in trouble like people locals becoming more and more hostile like they associate the foreigners with Coronavirus and, but nothing nothing at all like this here in Yangon. Myanmar general I feel safe. Everything is available supermarkets old or hostile. Because the operating when I saw on the news and also here in in Myanmar when everything really started to shut down like suddenly there were no more flights. There was travel restrictions there was quarantine everywhere. Then I actually realized that it's very, very serious obviously in something we've never had before. And for me personally, I run tour company when should tour company for trekking mountain biking? And obviously, when all the borders shut down, there was suddenly since middle of March, the tourist season was over, and there were no no tourists, no guests, no tourists, no income at all anymore. This obviously made me realize most of what's going on so that I have no any cases in my family or my friends. I don't know anyone, personally, but also in Yangon in downtown many, many streets are shut down like closed off. quarantine my street. I live on 49th Street. Luckily it's still open and still free to go around as you go out on the street in most places around the world these days Yeah, scary. Scary to see no these places since he is always super busy, super crowded, lively, and now it's like they're messing no one they're also young, like a ghost town. So in my everyday life, so I still go out. I'm a very active person. So I go for running for jogging, every day but I make sure to keep social distance. So I don't usually I go alone or I go together with my girlfriend, but we're not meeting any people and we also not having much conversations or meeting anyone else when we are out. I have a lot of conversations of course on Skype, what's up with my family back home in Austria with my friends here. But what I see when I go around here, what I'm most worried about is the people like normal people here because there's no social security here. So as I'm talking about the sellers in the markets, which all shut down the tradeshow drivers like the richer drivers with no business at all anymore, because there's no one here no more potential customers. And it's the that what worries me actually They can make a living, how they will be able to support their families. Like most foreigners who live here are a friends friends of mine local friends who have studied they all have good jobs, they have some savings so that they can for sure survive for several months like this. People living on the day today base, as I mentioned before sellers, treasure drivers, taxi drivers. They are the ones I'm worried about. Like the longer it goes, of course, the more serious the situation will become for them, if no income for for many weeks. And yesterday evening, I went out for writing for evening work around the People's Park in Chicago. pagoda in central Yangon, yesterday was the vesak day Myanmar called kasamh full moon day, the first day like a very big holiday, usually in Myanmar in Buddhist countries and Shwedagon Pagoda usually super crowded there and it was very interesting like very unreal to see like the pagoda all the gates closed, the pagoda still illuminated, but all the gates closed and only very few a handful of people sitting outside with some candles and speaking during the prayers and meditation. This was maybe 2020 people I saw at 7pm at night. Usually I go quite often to shoot a gun pagoda also on Monday's not so much to Shwedagon for meditation myself because it's too busy for me I need a very quiet place, but just to take in all the atmosphere and join the celebration in the festive atmosphere. But there it was. Yeah, usually there's thousands and thousands of people there on such days and yesterday, no one. The whole situation has one positive aspect and this is simply that I have more time to spend with myself for myself, which I use on one side. I read a lot. Also Dhamma related book also self development in general. But I also have more time for meditation like during normal days working days. I work seven days a week from 7am in the morning. Sometimes six to late at night. So I don't have time as much as I wish to have time for myself to practice meditation. Now it's definitely a positive aspect for me. Personal save, more time to meditate. It's home. So I cannot go anywhere. Usually I'm mostly meditating. At home in my room. I have my quiet corner. Because I realized I'm very easy to distract as I tried to join in with local meditators at my local pagoda at Utah. There was not very successful in meditating there is my quiet little sanctuary at home way Practice the fastener now more more than before, I guess since the last one months I intensified. Yeah, so I'm doing daily trying one hour, which mostly works out practice general Vipassana and abana. I didn't meditate. I'm still I practice now since I started 11 years ago. But I would still consider myself rather pretty much a beginner stage so I can see very much the benefits and it helps me a lot, but I'm not a very advanced meditator.

57:46

Jochen Meissner  57:48

I started in the tradition of Sayagyi U Ba Khin, IMC.  That's what I practice, what I learned, and the story is easy to explain: during my travels in Southeast Asia starting from like 15-18 years ago, I became very interested in Buddhism in general. And that's when I heard the first time about Buddhist meditation practices. It was in 2009. Back in Austria, I became really interested in meditation. So what I did, basically was to use Google and search meditation in Austria. And I found out this IMC, international meditation center, founded by Sayagyi U Ba Khin, there is one in Austria in Carinthia. I had no idea before that it existed. I had a look at the homepage and it looked very interesting, so I sent them an email, and they said, 'Okay, we have a course, 10 day retreat starting in two months' from the date I sent the email. I was very welcome to attend. Okay, let's do that. This was in August 2009. I did my very first retreat in Austria. Another one followed in 2012, as well in Austria and then in 2017 at the IMC in Yangon, I did my third retreat. And I was actually planning now to do one in May, but for the moment, meditation centers don't do official retreats. So I have to wait and practice by myself for the moment at home. Meditation is helping me for sure in general to keep calm and not to panic or not to worry too much or develop anxiety. Of course, especially for the poor people in Myanmar, there's no social security, as in Western countries. I mean, there's a lot of monasteries, religious associations, Buddhist as well as Christian and Muslim who donate food in the streets in Yangon, like street kitchens who provide local communities in the poor areas with essentials for cooking or just handouts, rice, oil, beans, like this. So it's really good to see that not only the Buddhists, but I've seen NGOs as well non-religious as well as Muslims, Christians helping the people in need here, which is really great. And I also personally, we have my tour company, we also have a small charity. And we arranged now in Dalla, which is across the river from downtown Yangon. Very poor area where there is a slum area which we support since several years already. We installed the drinking water filters there. We built the toilets there last year, also with donations from our guests. And we talked to the ward administrator yesterday. We're getting 50 bags of rice today and we'll donate them on Sunday to the people there. So for around 300 families, we can help because the government, they are helping, but it's not enough. So the ward administrator is a friend of mine and he asked us for help. So we can buy 50 bags of rice and donate them this Sunday, the last small thing we can do to contribute. Of course, I do hope that Coronavirus, the whole situation will also have positive effects. Like, just like people think what is actually really important in life. What is life about? Yeah, and the secret Like is nationalism and separation of religions? Yes, I, of course, I hope very much, it will have an effect and it will change for the better. But well, some people they're very resistant to change, and I don't have any illusion it will disappear or it will not happen anymore. But I hope and I'm sure in the small scale like a bit it will change for sure to the beta.

Host  1:03:41

Finally, we wrap up with Matthew show Jen, an American meditator who is the founder of wandering meditators and leads regular group settings at the Allianz Francaise in Yangon. An expert in the field of mental health he talks about the impact he has seen due to the pandemic as well as his decision to remain at home in Yangon. With his family and dog,

Matthew Schojan  1:04:03

I've been here and me and Mar for over five years now was five years in April. And that's after about eight or eight and a half years in Thailand. And my wife and daughter and I have been in the region for nearly 15 years at this point. And what brought us here initially, I was born and raised in New York, and my wife grew up in California. We had met in New York and early on, she had told me that she does international development work and was planning on working outside of the US. And I was well rooted in New York but no longer really interested in the work I was doing there and become a bit distant. And by, by the lifestyle in New York, was also focusing quite a bit on meditation at that point, and sitting with different teachers in the US primarily around Vipassana. And through the lineage taught by jack kornfield, and others, Dharma punks, and then against the stream meditation as well as sitting with teachers like Sharon Salzberg, when they came through and there were opportunities to sit with the Dalai Lama when he offered teachings there. Before leaving New York I had traveled to India and Thailand and spent time meditating in different spaces and centers. So when we were looking to, to travel and to leave the US, we decided on moving to Asia as a at least, as of Stop to continue that exploration of meditation of mindfulness and spend more time learning the Dharma and finding places to sit and go deeper into Vipassana practices. And initially, we ended up in Nepal and spend a few meditation retreats there studying with a remote Shay in the cookie tradition, as well as doing some other self sittings. And just just really immersing ourselves in, in the communities they're from there. We were planning to come to me and Mar and because of the challenges of these and the things that we're going At the time, this was back around 2005 2006. We ended up in Thailand. And we were based in Chiang Mai. And just settled in there, I was a bit of a challenging time to be able to enter me in Mar. So we ended up spending a year and a half in Chiang Mai. And quite a bit of that time was on meditation retreats with different teachers. And there was such a rich community of meditators there and really enjoyed learning more about the Dharma there, but always had an interest in coming to me and Maher and, and learning more about so many of the teachers and traditions that I had heard about and read about while beginning this exploration in the US. So, upon arriving in Myanmar about five years ago, having a young child I wasn't able to or I chose not to attend many meditation retreats, not to lay free child in Thailand where I was able to go and spend weeks at a time on retreat and, and really be much more immersed in the Dharma community there. However, I did find a weekly meditation group that was made up of a mix of foreigners and locals that were sitting together at the French Institute. And after a few sessions there and enjoying just the community that it served, a person was leaving and asked if I could continue on the group. So I've been doing that weekly meditation group for the last A few years, and I had co lead meditation groups in Chiang Mai in Brooklyn when I lived in New York, as well as offered residential retreats for Gap Year students when we were in Thailand as well. And I've really been grateful to be able to offer a space for people who are both new and also just seeking a community a calm and informal space to develop this practice together. Also, while you're in the end gone, I've been working around the mental health space and working with community based mental health services and providers working with local organizations to strengthen Their capacity for providing mental health services in their communities, particularly in hard to reach communities around the country. I've often found that the intersection between meditation, Buddhism and mental health has been quite strong. And my interest across both spaces often overlap. This intersection initially was birth through my exploration of the mind from a Buddhist perspective from a meditator, Yogi's perspective. And the more that I studied and meditated and went on retreats, the more interest I had, studying the mind from a psychological perspective And while in Thailand I, I decided to go back to school and and do an undergrad in psychology online while continuing to to meditate and be immersed in the Dharma there. So looking at Western psychology and Western psychological ideas and an underpinning through a Buddhist lens often has similarities in in how one looks at the mind and in how we understand our minds our thoughts, our behaviors, our our actions and feelings and and having no permeate the different the different parts of my life. It helped me to find a livelihood Right Livelihood, if you will, that really resonated with me. And it's been a way to coalesce these two interests and areas of life we spend so much time working and to find a way to utilize the interest and passion. I've developed around the Dharma and around meditation has really been a, an area that I'm grateful for to have a livelihood that is often in line with my ideas and and learnings around Buddhism and mindfulness and meditation beyond sets of COVID and watching this arising in the world and and tracking it through the news and media, from China, Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea, and out into Europe and the US impact the entire world. Being in Myanmar with a family and and the young child, there were many conversations on what to do, how to respond. My wife and I have been working in the humanitarian sector for many years now, and are used to responding to crises. But at the same time, these are often isolated crises where if something is happening in a country, a conflict or a natural disaster, there are usually options to go to another place or to shelter there. But the uniqueness of a global pandemic is there aren't other safe spaces or are explicitly safe, because the entire world is affected. And it's made for challenging decisions and a lot of discussion on on what would be best for our family. Do we stay here and yet gone, and shelter in place in our home? where we have our life where we've been for over five years, where we know the situation. We know both the challenges and the benefits of being here and being in our house. Or do we decide to move do we decide to go somewhere else and to weather out this pandemic? And initially, we were thinking that perhaps we should go to Thailand and there was quite a flight of many flights. foreigners who had left me and Mar to head to Thailand. Sometimes because they felt that the health system there was quite strong and could and could manage dealing with the pandemic. Others gone for the the accessibility of having such a large international airport If further flights were needed to get to other destinations. And we weighed this for several weeks as the pandemic was evolving. Even though were American, the idea of returning to the US was not really an option we were exploring very heavily. The response was being presented in the US did not offer much in terms of comfort in our considerations around returning to the US Because we haven't lived there and so long it's been well over a decade, we would have had to initially stay with family and or quarantine initially, and then stay with family, or find our own place to live for an undetermined period of time. And our parents are quite old. So they wouldn't have been saved to have stayed with any of them more. So we felt at that point. And we really took the option of returning to the US for this covid pandemic off the table quite early. But we were very much back and forth about going to Thailand. And one of the things that kept us here in Myanmar, perhaps there were two key decisions. One was around our ability to stay in our home. With everything that we had here, in terms of food generator other, having connections here with work with friends and community that could help support if things did get difficult, as opposed to going to a place in Thailand where we would not have a lot of that for a period of time that we don't know. And also having a dog as well. A very large golden retriever in tow made some of these decisions even more complex, because it's not as easy to pack up a large dog and travel to a place and find a place that would be willing to accept us as a family with with a large dog. In the end, we chose to stay here in Myanmar. We weighed these patients And cons and accepted that the that given our personal health, our connections to community and work here and also the work that we knew we needed to do and continue doing in the humanitarian space here working around mental health and the stressors that would be on communities at this time and the need for support around mental health services and the knowledge that uprooting our daughter, who was already challenged with switching to online schooling, as well as being separated from her friends, and so forth would be difficult to take her out of our home where she had all of her stuff and everything that she knew was something that we chose to circumvent so we opted, we would stay here and shelter in place with our suppliers. But with our community with, with our ability to have other options if needed, but to really see where this unfolded further, we saw very early on in the mental health space, that globally with the uncertainty of COVID, as well as the need and restrictions being put on people to quarantine to shelter in place to become socially or physically distant. There's quite a lot of stress around that. And in our work around mental health, we were looking at how to get messaging out to help people understand the stress that they're experiencing, and also provide options and support resources for How to cope with all of the stress stress of having someone sick in your family, the grieving or loss that comes if someone dies of COVID also the fear around getting COVID or someone in your family getting COVID the fear of all of the uncertainty in this pandemic, not knowing what's going to happen not knowing how long this will persist, not knowing if there will be a vaccine or when there will be a vaccine. And this was also further compounded by people not being able to work. Many people losing their their jobs. So not having an income coming in, which then puts stress on the family to be able to provide for their family with food with housing with other basic needs and It's been a focus here in Myanmar, with our work of how, how can we continue to support people, because there was also a limit on restrictions. So, working with local organizations, we found ways and help them adapt, to provide remote services, to get mental health messaging out into communities to help them learn more about stress and more about how to cope with stress and how to cope with it in skillful ways. So again, looking at this through the lens, of the Dharma and of meditation, in terms of seeing what's happening and looking at the thoughts that are arising, the uncertainty that's arising of fear the feelings that are arising, how can those be dealt with skillfully Looking at how to work in this space where we can't change what's going on, outside externally, but we can we can work on shifting our relationship to it. And providing and shifting our response to it. And giving people resources and tools to be able to do that. Helping them resource what they have available in terms of music, meditation, yoga exercise, rather than other behaviors that may be less skillful, particularly at a time when we're under duress and stress. And this is something that we've been focused on over the last few months in helping people and supporting them through different platforms, when local service providers and mental health professionals can't see People in person, how can we still support people by providing more information about how to take care of themselves how to take care of their family and in their communities at this time when they can't always be physically present. And important part of my experience here in Yangon has been the Sangha, the community that I've been engaged in, over the last few years, our weekly meditation group that I mentioned earlier, and it was a beautiful respite and a way that has really helped ground my meditation in go a bit deeper than I do in my daily meditation. Being able to offer guidance and just come together in a community to support each other with with our practice has been a really integral And part of my practice and experience over the last few years when COVID started and restrictions began being put in place, where we were asked not to gather in groups of five or more and then asked to shelter in place, we had to adapt, just like with our work in mental health and needed to adapt and to offer remote services. We also took our song or meditation group online. And we were already recording on Facebook Live for the last year or so because the weekly meditation group that we have here has many people that are in and out. Some people come and stay stay in yen gone for three months or six months or a year or two and then move on and end up in another part of the world. But oftentimes will Want to stay connected? So, about a year or a year and a half ago, there were some key people that were joining the group and sitting with us for the last couple of years that really wanted to stay connected. So we started recording live, when we would be meeting in person at the French Institute, when we needed to bring the entire song online, we are already ready in that way. And we've also added in Doom as well and have incorporated that in because after the first few weeks of going online and and doing it just on Facebook Live, we noticed that even though we're still conducting a guided meditation and a bit of a talk, there wasn't the same engagement and connection that have been going on. In and in our community. So moving to zoom as a platform where we could see each other and, and have time for discussion around what's going on in our meditation practice, or what's going on and how we're dealing with the world and how we're, how we're responding and sitting with COVID and everything else that comes along with it. With being sheltered in place, meaning to work in a different way, needing to engage in different ways, how to sit with the uncertainty of all of this, and with all of the feelings and conditions that are arising. It's been a very, very supportive experience in terms of How do we stay together and stay connected and bringing the song and our community together through a video platform once a week has really helped that has helped continue that conversation has helped support our practice during this time, where many of us see this practice as being essential for staying healthy for being able to sit in the midst of all of the challenges that this COVID experience and conditions have presented. That has been something that I'm very grateful for having, having a daily meditation practice and having the training that we undergo with what we have here now with these conditions of CO good is exactly what we've been learning to sit with. With the impermanence of conditions with the impermanence of all things, and our previous lifestyle has changed, and we've needed to adapt and how do we sit with that? How do we sit with uncertainty with the whole range of the human experience? And that's been something that my meditation practice has helped me create space to process and that has permeated out and or expanded out into holding a space for others to do the same. Do we have the community sit with this and respond to this and come through this with more wisdom? And importantly, how do we stay compassionate during this time? Do we keep our heart open on with all the challenges? And how do we continue to grow personally and as a community and society in these challenging times?

Host  1:29:19

Now, a message about these special coronavirus episodes. First a caveat about our current podcast being produced during this expanding global pandemic. In this new age of social distancing, face to face interviews are of course no longer possible. An obvious consequence of this is technical. None of the guests we interview have access to a professional recording studio. Indeed, as some are living remotely in the Burmese countryside, they have little more than their phone's microphone to record and send messages. Our expert sound engineers have done their best to improve and enhance the quality, but there is a limit to even their magic. In a time when major network programs resort to home recorded and Melbourne content. We also trying to adjust to these new rules and limitations. So while we apologize for any difficulty you may experience as you listen to these episodes, we appreciate your understanding of the challenges we face in producing them. On another note, please keep in mind that the interviews on this episode were recorded at some time in the past, maybe just a few days to perhaps even more than a month ago. As a result, some of the factual details conveyed in these interviews may be outdated by the time you hear them. We hope you find some light and wisdom in the voices that follow. We are greatly appreciative for the time that they all generously provided to share their words and perspective. We wish all our listeners to stay safe and mentally sound and use this challenging experience to grow and dama. This podcast is made by Dharma practitioners for Dhamma practitioners. Let me take a moment to tell you about our team who all bring technical skills along with their dedication to the Dhamma to this work. One sound engineer Martin Holmes is a composer and producer living in the Netherlands. The other darnay is a local Burmese sound engineer, who also helped us set up our recording studio. Zach Kessler is a former forest monk who lived in Myanmar that helps with content and Ken pranskey uses his considerable skills and editing to help with our scripted content. As for me, I've been exploring how the Buddhist teachings are carried out in Myanmar for the last decade. We are very fortunate as well, because to cut our costs as low as possible to allow us to produce as many episodes as we can at this quality level. Some members of our team are willing to work on this project as volunteers and others take only a very small fraction of their usual salary. However, even so, alas, these episodes cannot be produced for free. Given the extensive work that's involved in even 190 minute interview, there is a minimum fixed cost. And to cover those costs. We rely on listeners like you that benefit from this content. If you find the dominant interviews, we are sharing value and would like to support our mission. We welcome your contribution, you may give the patreon@www.patreon.com slash Insight Myanmar as well as via paypal@www.paypal.me slash Insight Myanmar. In both cases that's Insight Myanmar one word. I en si gh t MYAN m AR. If you are in Myanmar and would like to give a cash donation please feel free to get in touch with us. You have been listening to the Insight Myanmar podcast, we would appreciate it very much if you would be willing to rate review and or share this podcast. Every little bit of feedback helps. If you are interested, you can subscribe to the Insight Myanmar podcast on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Also, please check out our website for a list of our complete episodes including additional text videos and other information available at www dot Insight Myanmar one word dot o RG If you cannot find our feed on your podcast player, please let us know and we will ensure it can be offered there. 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Do our Spanish translations, and a special Mongolian volunteer who was asked to remain anonymous does our social media templates we'd also like to thank everyone who assisted us in arranging for the guests we've interviewed so far. And of course, we send a big thank you to the guests themselves, for agreeing to come and share such powerful personal stories. Finally, we're immensely grateful for the donors who made this entire thing possible in the first place. We also remind our listeners that the opinions expressed by our guests are their own and not necessarily reflective of the host or other podcast contributors. Also, this recording is the exclusive right of Insight Myanmar podcast. It is meant for personal listing only and cannot be used without the Express written permission. Have the podcast owner. This includes any video, audio written transcript, or excerpts of any episode that said we are open for collaboration. 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