Transcript: Episode #136: Breaking Glass Ceilings, Documenting Atrocities
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Nyein, which was released on December 3, 2022. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:00
The situation currently taking place in Myanmar is abominable. There's no safety anywhere in the world is all but turned its back on the entire people trying to claim their freedom and insist upon their human rights in the face of blatant evil and inhumanity. international media seems to have moved on to the next story, scarcely reporting on this one anymore, even as the horror continues. We at insight Myanmar podcast find this intolerable, and we stand by the Burmese people in their courageous effort to live in dignity. This platform is dedicated to making sure that we keep the conversation going, while ensuring these voices continue to be heard. Today's guest is one of those and I invite you to settle in and open to what follows
01:03
no act of giving no matter how small is ever wasted. Money can be reclaimed, lives cannot. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha yeah, maybe that is
Saw 02:07
that. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Insight Myanmar podcast. And today I have noon with me. That's the guest for today's podcast. New Welcome. Hello. Thank you very much for being here with us.
Nyein 02:42
Yeah, yeah, I'll be happy to share my experiences.
Saw 02:48
Alright, so I guess we'll just start from the very beginning, go back to from the very beginning. And you're obviously you know, you have built an impressive portfolio in the forest journalism few. And your works have been exhibited at many galleries and magazines. But I know that it wasn't an easy journey to get there. Right. Yeah, Burmese kid with you know, Burmese parents, I was told to, like, either get into an engineering or medicine feel, or I was alive in that role. And these cultural and environment pressures like can really make a skier of pursuing what we love. So I'm really curious, what inspire you to choose for journalism as your career?
Nyein 03:41
So I usually do I usually do what I want so and my parents know about it. So then after I finished my university, I attended like, like a photo photo festival they call Yangon photo festival. So at the time, I had a various different type of photography, and including photojournalism. And they show me like a lot of a lot of photos, a lot of photojournalism photos, like conflict for story and so many photos, and then at the time, I understand I understand, Stan is that you know, that kind of photos can be sad or you know, you know, do do any other thing and only had a chance to take photos when the when the news or the conflict is happening. So you know, that kind of that kind of excite me, you know, 2015 I think then after that I, I started I started walking around around downtown around downtown a year ago with a camera instead of shooting I started shooting street photos. And I usually upload my photos in Instagram. And then at that time, the Myanmar Times photo department you know that the photographer from the Myanmar Times, he saw me, he saw me some of my photos, my Instagram, and he sent me an email like you want to internship in Myanmar Times. And I was really, I was really lucky. And, and, you know, that's how I that's how I log into their photojournalism feed.
Saw 05:43
Got it? And where are your families or your parents or your like your surrounding your relatives? How do they react to that?
Nyein 05:55
Actual actually, after I after I finish my, my university, they kind of they kind of, you know, do the home business. But I moved to Yangon and you know, started my own way. And they kind of know about it, because because after I matriculation exam, they want me to attend, like, you know, like medicine and engineering, but I don't I do. I wanted to attend Art University. So, you know, the same thing like that, you know, after I finished university, I started to do what I want. So after, you know, I tell them that I'm going to intend at my times, and the kind of worry about about me, and they don't know about, you know, the media, you know, and photojournalism, you know, Korea that I mentioned, I mentioned to my dad, and he doesn't really know what, what's the job, I have to do it. So then I have to explain everything. And you know, and trying to learn to make, make, make things work for my, on my family and my Yeah, but in the end, I went, so. Yeah.
Saw 07:23
Got it. Got it. And you mentioned that you had to explain your parents what photojournalism is. And, you know, obviously, there's a definition for photojournalism. But I want to know, your personal personal definition or personal belief of photojournalism is.
Nyein 07:43
Yeah, I think like, what for reason was in means is that, you know, we have to, we have to take some photos that can be happen, you know, another time like, like, you know, when you're, when you're covering the conflict, or the, or the press conference, you know, you have to take photos at the time. And even if it's late, like, like, only 10 seconds or a minute late, you know, strong photos can be can be happen again. So that's kind of that's kind of my, my, my gist of photojournalism.
Saw 08:28
And, you know, of course, you have been, you mentioned the European a Myanmar time. And I also know that you have also been in many different professions in the form of journalist and fuel. So do you want to take us through them really quickly?
Nyein 08:47
Yeah. First, I got a, I, like I told you before I started an internship in my times, and in Myanmar Times, I usually take no Slyke in my time, they had a lot of a lot of different sectors of news. So So mostly as I'm a at a time as I'm a junior, you know, for the journalism so they want me to take care of the news, sorry, the social you know, event things, you know, I have to attend a lot of events. And then I have to take photos of the event and the celebrities liking, liking and you know, that kind of thing. And then then after working in Yama change for like, three treatments. I I, one of my friends, one of my friends in frontier, Myanmar, she told me, I should apply, I should apply a job because she's going to leave France a year from here. So then I apply for the generalist job, position and punch me in for a few years. I get it. So, in the, in the frontier, Myanmar, I usually cover news features story like, like, you know, in there, they have a, they have a really great feature story sector and
10:18
because a lot of the I mean I have to work, collaborate, work and collaborate with a journalist. So, and I take a lot of photos about our lifestyle stories news and political and some kind of like that. And I am also interested in writing. So I have studied feature feature writing and editors, and most of my colleagues teach me, you know, the method of how to write a, you know, proper article. So, so I try and I read a lot of a lot of news article in that, in that in front here. And, and I told my editor that I want to do
Nyein 11:12
I want to do photo story, like, like, I want to write and I want to, I want to take photos, and then he told me that, okay, do it so. So that's how I started writing a lot of a lot of photo stories in front end, Mr. And that's great because I can do I can do what I want. So I get it and then and then I and I'm also interested in extreme extreme sport photography, because I, I had an I had a really long term sort of story about BMX, BMX in Myanmar. So, so I took I took that that photo story like almost five years I spend with them, I spend time with them. And whenever they practice, BMX and I do it so I'm interested in sports photography to so and then not only BMX I also interested in football and other other long we have a lot of a lot of, I tried to take a different types of different types of sport in Myanmar, I think 2018 So I, I applied a young spot photographer position. I got I got at the time, who was really happy, and I signed to pursue my sport photography. On the other hand, I told Frankie and Myanmar that I got picked from the, from the Olympic games to the Olympic photographer. So so they gave me because I have to travel to you know, when Osiris Argentina, take cover of that Olympics, so they gave me leaves. They're really supportive. So yeah, and after that, after sports photography, I, I attended a school photography school, a one year photography school, in in the mid cap, you know, they, they have, like, contemporary photo classes and documentary for the classes. They invite a lot of famous photographer from flooring, like, like seven photo Academy from Phillip and Danielle, and other we will catch on Colleen, you know, other professor art professor in
13:44
New York. So, so and I also studied contemporary and I'm because my art, my background is art. So I'm kind of interested in a lot of things that will combine with my art science and art photography. So contemporary things i i started, you know, in in contemporary it is really, really different with the photojournalism in photojournalism. It is like really use and contemporary is all about art and your personnel. Emotions. Yeah, kinda like that. So I
Nyein 14:24
saw I study and I made a, I made a one year, you know, project with a professor in New York. And yeah, after that I had a exhibition. Yeah, that was great. And then that could happen. Yeah. The COVID and the poof happen and I still take photos of the photos and all this. And in my spare time, I usually actually develop my personal personal story like my life which is really dark and You know, contemporary themes is kind of my, my journey, I tried to explore a lot of photos and a lot of free a lot of photography fields, not always. And also other fields.
Saw 15:17
That's really nice in from what you have here, you know, you have been in a lot of different places, and you have a lot of different experiences in the form of journalism fuel, and just as your journalism fuel in general. So, I kind of want to touch on this topic of discrimination, especially gender discrimination in the journalism world in Myanmar. So I was, you know, I was going through the materials that you sent, and your interview with, like, the vice media, or you mentioned that, and I call the Ministry of Information, sent a notice a notice to publication, encouraging woman, or staff to, you know, dress, professionally. And grown opinion Marcis society, I was really disappointed by how gender roles were determined, you know, how much respect you'll receive, in whatever industry you're in, whether it be medical or engineering, you know, even at the top areas, you're still treated less when you're a woman compared to men. So, I, my question is, what challenges did you face in pursuit of this school this for a journalism career, that perhaps other meals colleagues that didn't face in this industry?
Nyein 16:53
I think it's kind of good and a bad and a bad challenges. You know, once I can three ones, I can three things it about man, you know, and, and mostly, what is really disturbed me the most is the gender gender discrimination, like, you know, most of the people think that I can't do my job, probably, or I don't know what I'm doing. And then, you know, they started, they started, Josh, what I wear, or, you know, what my body looks like, and, you know, and a lot of things like, like, like, you know, when they see me, like, you know, and they see me, like, a lot of, you know, I mean, I mean, teachers, teachers alone, and other things that I'm taking photography for fun. So, so that's kind of, that's kind of what they are thinking like, that is kind of, like, kind of, like, I get, I get some kind of some kind of benefit from, from that kind of thinking, because they don't, they don't pay any attention to I, I kind of take photos in a prohibited area, or, you know, and then what they told me I smile at them, I'm sorry, I didn't know that. I'm just, I'm just messing around. And, you know, so so. So when it comes to that is kind of its kind of mix.
Saw 18:30
Right? And I guess what's really interesting to me is that it's really ironic, because, you know, when we look at Myanmar, like majority of the people, they believe that, you know, ancestry is their rightful leader, and they really put trust in nonsense he who's a woman just like you. But then, you know, of course, gender discrimination is everywhere, but for I think it's a little more than, you know, I guess we can say it's a little extreme in Burma. So why do you think that people put their trust in onsen? Suchi who's just a woman like you, but in Burma, we still have like a lot of cases where women are extremely discriminated against.
Nyein 19:28
Yeah, and above the, you know, alternative G, you know, got a lot of, I mean, I mean, she proved a lot of things to Myanmar, and you know, and, and, but, but when it comes to like, like girls and women near near them, they don't really seem like that, you know? Because like they didn't sometimes they didn't even have a have a chance to, to give us to prove Did you know that that we can do it? So? Yeah.
Saw 20:06
So what do you think the root of that problem is the root of, you know, not giving girls even a chance to prove themselves?
Nyein 20:20
Honestly, I don't, I don't really know, you know, because? Because maybe they have, they have a really, really great explanation, you know, when it comes to their children, you know, you know, you know, like, especially women, you know, when they want to become, like me, like a journalist, or the photojournalism, most of the people in Myanmar didn't know about, you know, what they saw pictures? Or, you know, in the newspaper that, you know, they call photo generalist, and some people didn't know that. So, I don't know, I don't know how to ask that. That question.
Saw 21:13
Thank you. Yeah, I think you've touched on, like the expectation part. You know, who my parents are, I guess we can call the Asian parents how they want their children's to be perfect in what they like this high expectations. Yeah. If you like, do you feel like you were fighting these discriminations when you were pursuing this journalism goal?
Nyein 21:48
Sometimes you No, no, no, no. Like I told you before, it's kind of always kind of makes, you know, some sometimes is bored. That, that being a girl being a girl for the generalist, you know, sometimes it's kind of bad, you know, like, like, people always look down, or, you know, what the, what you were, and, you know, you know, what, you're what you're doing this kind of, like, just kind of cool, you know, sometimes, but in sometimes, we don't really care about it. So. Yeah. But But now.
22:31
I mean, I think I think after after 2000, you know, after 2000 2000, after 2020, like, you know, people from a lot of media company at the International Organization, they're trying to balance the the number of women stuff, you know, when they call a job or when they call, you know, an application. So, so yeah.
Nyein 22:59
So did they try to balance it? Yeah.
Saw 23:03
That's great. That's great. That's good to hear. So the next topic that I want to touch on is, of course, on yo for journalism. And as we as we know, as a famous phrase says, a picture's worth 1000, a picture's worth 1000 words. And when I was looking through your Instagram, I feel like your Instagram portfolio is the epitome of like, the example of that quote, because you don't use a lot of words to describe your pictures. But instead, you let them speak themselves. So, could you explain how you capture moments that you believe will deeply convey 1000 words?
Nyein 23:55
You Yeah, I mean, like, to me, like, for example, when I take photos of the crew, and I, I mean, I mean, that the information is, is, is on that, you know, one, one photo, I don't need to explain, you know, and I don't need to explain so much, you know, so, so, yeah, it kind of it kind of like that, you know, how do
Saw 24:21
you know that these these moments are going to be? I guess, these moves are gonna be important to take pictures off, or like, how do you judge that this picture is going to speak a lot of words to whoever sees the pictures?
Nyein 24:43
Yeah, so so far, it's about like the coop. Like the group that I take photos in, you know, a lot of protests broke down and that kind of thing, and at the time, I know that, you know, the coop And these photos can be happening again. So, so I try to I try to alert My, my, my, you know, my photojournalism, in my own mind, and I try to take a lot of photos. Yeah.
Saw 25:17
And there is this one picture that I want to talk about. And it's related to the coup as well. So the picture that you took on February 1, it was a picture of I believe, a truck a military truck. Yeah, did you remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So can you recall that experience? Or that picture?
Nyein 25:46
So in one day could happen in February first, on February 1, I, I was at Naypyidaw to take the take the photo after photo after photo of the new new parliament, you know, you know, that will happen on the on the February first, but it didn't, it didn't happen at the coop happen, then, and then that photo was was in Naypyidaw. Because once the coop happened on February 1, a lot of things, a lot of things change, like even the atmosphere has changed in libido, because everything is so quiet. And you know, we can we can connect with anybody, you know, experts, except that, you know, we're experts and generalists that we said were staying with as in a hotel, so, and the news can happen at the Internet connection, and everything went down. So the time I was really I was really freaked out, frankly. And then But then and then and then I remember that I'm a photojournalist, and I have to take I have to I have to take photographs of you know what what happened next and me and a journalist we we go to we go through through the the people I saw that a lot of a lot of changes, like like, like, like a lot of soldiers and tanks around if you do all that, you know, they try not to try to be trying to like show you the the coop is already happened. And there are a lot of soldiers and police everywhere. Everywhere in in in Naypyidaw and especially a lot of it. A lot of it around the CPN data which is which is which is parliament members. Which parliament members stay. So yeah.
Saw 28:10
Got it. Yeah. And that was a really shock moment for everyone. Because, you know, favorite first majority of the Myanmar population was sound asleep on the military stage a coup. And then many of them found out about it in the morning when they wake up. So and the Internet were cut off. So just like you mentioned, it was really hard to communicate, it's really hard to, to, to know what's real and what's not. And as a photo journalist, that's, you know, like you mentioned your job to spread the news. So when, you know, during these coops, you have taken a lot of pictures, and a lot of moments. So I want to, you know, dive into that a little bit and ask you about, you know, the techniques that you use, in your experience during the coup. So for the journalists, because, you know, when the coup started, and then when the protests happened, things escalated really quickly, and even the media people were not safe anymore. So could you, you know, recall the experience of you being in, in the protests and maybe even in like the battlefield, I guess. And just try to take these pictures. How was it for you?
Nyein 29:42
Frankly, it was, it was it was really scary. And really difficult because, because Because I mean, I mean, that's that's how I really like like my job. As a generalist. It works really excite me that kind of adrenaline. So, so in the, in the, in the protest, I was like, I, I really, I really take photos of the, you know, from the safari first and you know, I didn't even have a have arrestee you know, during, during the coup, the coup happened. So, so every day I go out, I go out and take take protests and correct our homes. And, you know, when I, what I do is that when I when I was at the, at the, at the protest I usually I usually look around a lot of people because there are like, 1000s and hundreds of people. So first of all, i i Usually I usually fine and exit you know, when the on the coop, want to sorry, want a quick down sharpen, you know, when, when, when the when the police ran to us to us, where, where I want to, you know, when I should where I should run, you know, escape, you know, like, like that kind of way i i think i think before I before I take photos of the protest, I always think like that I always think the exit and then i Then I take photos and usually the After After 25th or February, police tried to crack down the the protests. So. So on the 25th of February things are really, really, really different. Because before before trying to fit there were only only protest and you know, no crack down. I mean, I mean, there are a lot of a lot of a lot of police and soldier but they didn't do anything to us. But after that, it really changed completely. It's kind of like it is kind of like a battlefield, you know, you know, they they try the users in a rubber bullet and then life life round bullet so so yeah, yeah, what I want to do is that I tried to I tried to escape and then then because my, I think I think my job is like three or four at the same time. I you know, because as the protesters they just moved the protest and then want to wonder if that happened, they ran but for me I have to take photos of why when they ran you know, I always behind behind them. You know, I am like really near to the to the police, but they really when they fund the run really fast. Fast food so. So yeah, I tried to alert alert my mind every time that could happen. And there was the moment that the police try. Even you know, you know, he is like really near me and he tried to grab my breath my cameras and my shirt. No, but luckily I ran I ran really fast. So yeah, that kind of Yeah, that kind of thing. But yeah, luckily I, I escaped
Saw 33:24
her. And a really famous photo of you is when you're you know, for the listeners to describe, she is sitting down against a wall and she's looking at her her camera and looking through the pictures. And she she know that it is dangerous. And you know, it is a very dangerous and hard job to do. But you still decided to do it. So do you remember the picture that we're talking about?
Nyein 34:00
Yeah. Is it the is that the animation that that Myanmar that one of the newer artists? One of the Myanmar artists draw me Is it is it my is it that one?
Saw 34:18
Yeah, there's a yeah, there's the animation of it. Oh, like a picture? Yeah,
Nyein 34:22
yeah. Yeah, that photo. That photo was photo when I was in China. Yeah, it was much, much 14th theme and forgettable day of my life.
Saw 34:37
Wow. Would you like to tell us about it?
Nyein 34:43
Yeah. Because that is like, like, you know, professionally it is. It was really, really lucky day. I think because, because on much March 14, the military and Soldier thing that killed a lot of people, hundreds of people in Medina protest. So professionally, at that time, I was I was in I was a night I agitate the protests of the, of the light, I protest, I was there like, like, 5am in the morning, you know, I can't even I can't even get out the end of the day I, you know, so professionally, it is lucky. But personally, it's really, it's really, it's really lucky for me because because I've seen a lot of people endure and you know, a lot of a lot of, you know, a lot of things and then after that I had like, like, it's really hard to how to how to go the the situation and, and metal breakdown after that. So yeah, yeah, it's kind of like yeah, so at that photo is is that after the coup after the crackdown in in light I finished you know, when they first first crack down the protest, and we have too high you know, you know, in a lot of different places and I can I can I can let you know that even even even I can let the owner of the houses that I hate because I can trust I can trust these people and and you know, and frankly I don't I don't even know the neighborhood you know, the areas of the entire before before that day because yeah, and that photo is I was hiding on the balcony on the on the highest is highest highest floor of the of the LIDAR because I want to I want to see the aerial view you know, you know when the when the police and the military crackdown and they're there were no no people on the street and I want to know what's happened here a lot of a lot of gunshots everywhere like continuously and I saw a lot of smokes smoke around around my entire so so that that kind of is like one one the one to one light I protest is about the the put a sign in front of in front of their protest. Like when they're like that I keep on to one a night Daya people have a blood and the Chinese factory will be, you know, on spoke so so it's kind of like, you know, they really do what they say. So, yeah.
Saw 38:00
Yeah. Right. And, you know, that's a really hard situation to cool to cope, physically, mentally, you know, financially in every aspect. And you also mentioned the mental breakdown, and all these, you know, the struggles that you had to go to. So, during the coup, how were you able to cope with these struggles?
Nyein 38:29
Frankly, before much 14, you know, I can I can cool, like, you know, I can cope, I can cope a lot of other things with my mentally and physically strong, you know, but, but after what I what I experience in life. It is really, it has completely changed because I can't sleep like a straight to my two months, I can sleep at night, whenever I fall asleep. I usually I usually wake up with some nightmares, and I was really afraid and felt really unsafe, you know, even in my home. So yeah. Yeah, it was really, it was really, it was really hard and after, after that, after that, but, but even even when I was, you know, can't sleep, I really struggle with sleep at night. I usually I take I take photos, you know, every day and then then I can sleep and I try to you know, do everything like meditation and alarm thing but then at the end I'd have to, I had to, you know, consult with a physio, physio, psychologist. And a lot of counseling and a lot of medications. Yeah, yeah. But now I'm, I'm really, really Getting better. Yeah.
Saw 40:02
Right, it's good that you can have helped, you know, for physical for mental, to have help during our really crazy event is just really good for you. And I'm glad that you, you were able to make it through, through all the struggles and through all the killings and all the atrocities that happened during during the coop. And I also want to touch on what happened after? Well, not after the coup, but during the coup, you know, because you're afforded journalists. You were chased by the military, or some sort of like that. So I don't want to get into detail if you're not comfortable, but if you're comfortable, do you want to explain to us how that went down? And how did you have to escape to Thailand?
Nyein 41:12
Yeah. You know, when the coup when the coup happened, you know, a lot of the a lot of, you know, media, a lot of people were in were a really harsh, harsh shape. But, but, but as I'm a photo journalist, it is really, just really hard for me because, because I have like, a lot of pressure, you know, every, every, every thing, you know, around me because my family, my family told me that I shouldn't, I shouldn't take photos, and it just came back home and my, my dad, my dad, you know, call a couple of times a day and check if I'm okay, and where I am and you know what I'm doing? And then he also, you know, my mom's and you know, my dad, he always you know, telling me that every every phone call Keystone take photos anymore. It's really dangerous for me I'm sorry okay so, so my parents, they didn't, they didn't really want me to take photos, and you know, you know, want me to continue my job but, but on the other hand, I wanted to, you know, I wanted to, to cover the histories of Myanmar, because the coop will be will be the biggest, you know, the because news that I, that I that I that I cover in my, in my photojournalism, in my photojournalism live, like seven years and, and the coop happened. So I think, at the time, I'd think professionally, like, you know, this is a great opportunity that I that I, you know, that I have, you know, I can I can contribute to a lot of international news and financial agency. So, so, so at the time, I I usually, i i Even I even fight with my, my, my parents, but in the end, they support me like Tito, they told me like to take care of myself in the in the projects and not to get a rest so so and also for me, I'm a I'm a girl for be generous, so so every time when I go to the protest, and I was like really, really, really noticeable, you know, because a lot of a lot of a lot of I mean, I think there was like three or four for the generals deal for the journalists in Myanmar. Myanmar during the Coolpad after after the police crackdown and everything really happened violently. I think I think it is the only one that only me only me still taking photos. So I was really noticeable and bold, you know, during the crowd and you know, yeah, so when I that and, and the police really, they, they even they even, you know, show show photos of me and, and my name in my neighborhood, you know, I used to say stay in San Jose or the Copa happen. But you know, my landlord, and you know, and even even my friends, they don't, you know, they don't really they know the, you know, the, you know, because I, I share, I share, I share a flat with with two of my friends. And after that happened, I think they are not really comfortable they're not really comfortable with staying with me. So, so, I have to you know, I have to I have to move a lot of places and and the third wanted that in, in central the police and the entropy people, you know, so those for the that in, in central there is a young man, you know, a young man grew up throughout can again from the, from the soldier, do you do you know that? Do you know that kind of that that day, because because because that day was happened, it happened near near my house. So so at the evening, the police, the police trying to search again, you know, and I don't know, I don't know, if they are really searching for the canfit where my family lived down downstairs of my building. So they told me that the police and the and, and under soldiers, they think not really hard my doors and you know, and, and it's really, it's really laggy because other time I was I was on my way back home to know you to home to so and one of my friends slipped in the in the same road in the near me home that there are a lot of soldiers and police at my at my place. So and then she sent me she sent me a photo of photos of it and I was really freaked out because because I was like really, really worrying about you know, about, you know, what I left home and you know, what, if they break down my house and you know, that's actually data into to it and after they know, like 30 minutes and then they go back Yeah. So that that is like really, really, really close. And then I moved to another place. And when I when I was when I moved to another place, I always you know, I always think about the escape plan. You know, I even I even I even try you know, with ropes and you know, with the with the climbing ropes because I usually I usually do rock climbing so, so I set my you know, I set my, my room with with a lot of ropes and you know, when when it is really happen, I have to escape it, you know, at all costs. So, yeah. Yeah. And and I have like, like a couple of times. But, but luckily and then and then and then. And then I think in in September I last year, I think about escaping escaping Myanmar because because I have I have sleepless nights and really mental breakdowns and I can I can even can't even I can't even look back my photos that I that I that I chose during the call because this is kind of like general like really terrifying moments. So so for the time being I can I can I can look back, I can you know I can I can I can look back my photos and And then in September last year in September, I decided to escape escape Myanmar. But that time I think about I think about going, you know, without a passport and crossed the border, I think the thing about it, but, but, but I, but I have a lot of things on it too when I, when I you know, move outside of the one I escaped Myanmar, I wanted, I want to go travel, travel a lot of countries so. So I take it, Rex and I, I flew I flew from from the airport and add it to Thailand. So, so in the airport, it is like, really, really exciting moment, you know, my knees are really shaking. And, you know, when the one in
51:00
the immigration counter before, before we, before I waited at the boarding gate, you know, we have to pass the immigration counter. And that time the, the police officer from the immigration counter who checked my bypass for like, like five or 10 minutes, I have to wait like, other time I was like, oh shit, I'm going to be I'm going to be arrested and you know, kind of the kind of thoughts inside me.
Nyein 51:36
And even even when I am waiting in the boarding gate, I can I can I can sit you know, really peacefully I usually I go I want to try lead, like three or four times before I go to a reach to the to the flight, you know, in the flight. So, yeah, yeah, that's how I that's how I escaped it is really, really tough Roger. Yeah.
Saw 52:06
Wow, that was really, really scary to listen to. Because every time you mentioned that the police were searching your flare like the police were coming. Even though I know that you're safe right now. And, you know, you're talking to me even even then I'm like, Oh, my God, is she gonna get rest or not? It's just going through my heads. And, you know, I, I cannot imagine how, how hard it was for you to, to do all of these things, while at the same time, you know, you still want to take pictures and you know, photograph these, these moments and these histories, so that the world can see what is happening in Myanmar. And, you know, I guess one thing that that is really, I guess, annoy me a little bit is how there is so little coverage about the coop on the international news. And, you know, it was a hot topic when the Cooper's happened. And then after a while it kind of just die out and now not a lot of foreign countries and a lot of people really care about what's happening in Myanmar anymore. So why do you think that there's, you know, so little coverage? Myanmar
53:42
think I think the thing now, you know, study, starting from 2023, you know, after one year, one year anniversary of coop, a lot of a lot of journalists and approach analysts and the photo journalists are not in in Myanmar and more. And the police and the military really, really take down the, you know, the journalists, they really they really seize the journalists and the photographer and even they killed so so it's like so it's like
Nyein 54:20
you know, a lot of people really really really really afraid of really afraid to to do the you know, journalism and journalist and to take photos you know, it's China it's kind of really hard for them and and still
54:45
Yeah, I know that I can I can I notice that on Facebook, on on Twitter, they're like a lot of a lot of a lot of things are happening but but the international news and they are not I'm trying to cover about, you know, Jamar Newman anymore. Yeah.
Saw 55:08
Right. And, you know, the military is doing everything in their own authority in their own power to, you know, crack down on, on these foolish journalists and journalists who are reporting accurate story. And, you know, I learned about a lot of journalists who are being detained who are being arrested. And they don't even get to, you know, to go through trials, they're just given sentences left and right. And with the terrible situations in, in the cells and the jail cells, and seeing these and hearing these news, I wonder how the future is journalism, the Myanmar is gonna go. So as a photojournalist yourself, do you think that you can shed some light on that?
Nyein 56:05
Yeah, I think I think the media, you know, and the, and the military also also forced to close the, you know, to shut down the media, you know, like, TVB, and, you know, other other media. So, so bad, but they will still, they were still be, you know, doing, doing, doing, the media company, they will be, they will be still but, but I think it's gonna be really hard to get, you know, information outside of Myanmar theaters now. Now in Myanmar, the internet, internet connection, and, you know, and, and, and the, in under clinician, and a lot of things are really, really happening in EMR. And, and on top of that, you know, the, the, the resources, you know, I mean, what I mean, it's the, is the if something happened, or, or, you know, when I say if something happened in the in Myanmar, you know, in some time region or in current region, I mean, I'll say, I mean, we, outside of Myanmar people, we usually know, we know, when the when the DVP, or, you know, Kitty or other other other other media companies? Mention it, you know, if not, if not, we, we can know, because, because, you know, it's really hard to explain.
Saw 57:57
Yeah, I guess the only reliable source now is, you know, just a few couple of news agencies, like you mentioned, keep the, and then DPP that you mentioned. Right. So it's really getting harder to get accurate news from Myanmar inside Myanmar, you know,
Nyein 58:20
yeah, yeah. And also for the, for the lack of the photo journalists and you know, videographer in Myanmar, we can, and, and the quality of the of the video, and the photos are really low, because but bestill, we got to get some of the some of the great photos, but you know, but we can, you know, the professional one can go inside, and, you know, so yeah, it's kind of it's kind of really, really hard and said that I, you know, that that can take photos and video. Yeah.
Saw 58:58
Right, that actually explains a lot about why there's so little coverage about the coop in Myanmar. And, you know, I deeply from my heart, I hope that, you know, one day we'll be able to show the world what's happening in, you know, get freedom from the military. But it will be a long way to get there without the transparency without the few journalists that's left who are working really hard. So in your own opinion, of course, how long do you think this coop is going to last? And, you know, what can we do to accelerate the revolutionary processes?
Nyein 59:59
I don't, I don't Really, I don't really have that kind of, you know, political comment, comment on that. But, but, but it's, it will be, it will be really, really great that you know, you know, from the, from the Yeah, I think that I mean, the coop will be happening, you know, now in the coop will be funny a lot of years. But but now is that just kind of know that because we have like, a lot of people to find different folders in every area. And, and I think, I think it will be to be great if they you know, if they hit T and I say sorry, I don't I don't really know how to how to answer it. Yeah.
Saw 1:01:03
Okay, yeah, that's fine. I guess no, I want to focus on your, your life in Thailand. So after, you know, escaping to Thailand, I know you you face a lot of a lot of hardships. And on your Instagram, you said that you were walking on a document for the Myanmar refugees who lost their homes, they had to escape to Thailand, and to live on the Myanmar type order. But it's getting harder for you to continue because of you know, for for for various reasons. So if you're comfortable, can you share us your experience right, right now entirely?
Nyein 1:01:52
Yeah, yeah, after after I escaped the state, Myanmar. I tried, I for the time being I can, I can, you know, I can, I can do any job, you know, like, for four or five months, I can, I can do anything because because I have to take care of my mental mental problems. And I have to get a lot of counseling, and I have to heal, heal a lot. So that I can I can do more, more, you know, after I healing so, so, I mean, so now that I last month, I started, I started my, my, my work. I mean, I resumed my work in in the time type order border. And I met a lot of people, I met a lot of a lot of refugees, people, a lot of, you know, a lot of people who worked for it, and UT and you know, so many, so many people, I met them, and I told you that there are live kids, their life is even way worse than they can they can they don't have a home and they don't have time to document to live in Thailand. And you know, it's really, it's really hard. It's really hard, you know, and and now that I become a freelancer, and you know it's kind of it's kind of hard, standard, hard to, you know, how to, you know, continue my job because I'm a photographer and an outside of Myanmar. I can I can really take photos of you know, what happened in like a region or like terrain or, you know, so. So yeah, it's kind of it's kind of hard, but, but, but I did, I did. I think I did my best, you know, from the from the Thai border. I tried to I try to speak a lot of people and I tried to do photo stories about Yeah.
Saw 1:04:16
Right. And you mentioned that you've been doing a lot of photo stories on your Instagram. So do you have any, like, favorite photo stories that you've done?
Nyein 1:04:29
Yeah, I think I take I think I just I eat my, my, my, my job a lot. So So I have a lot of a lot of a lot of photos showing a lot of favorite favorite photo story, so I can't really tell which one which one is that? The one the one is that? I didn't I didn't even post on Instagram and it's just kinda like, make up portrayed series of Myanmar, more female protester and female things that I tried. Because during one day could happen I usually, I usually take for the for the for my, for my for my news agency that I can preview. And then after that I usually take photo of the photos of you know, female protester and female. Female Yeah, yeah. Female protester Yeah. Yeah. Most of them I usually take photos of their, their portraits and their action. Yeah, yeah, definitely. One is my favorite story.
Saw 1:05:56
Yeah, that's, that's also and that also leads to, I guess my quote my next question. And, you know, we talked about how discrimination runs really deep in human society and in the photo journalism field, and in many other fields, and it's quite stunning to see you know, that discriminations against for men still exhibit even during the Revolutionary affords. However, the encouraging thing is that, you know, we are seeing a new phone, feminist ferocity since the coop began. In fact, women are the frontier of the revolutionary efforts. Whether it be Ethan's or Mao, who is one of the leaders who led the entire cooperatives in Django, or denza, Shawn Lee, who is, you know, one of the leaders of the anti coup protests which took root across the country. So seeing these, these, these new seeing a lot of woman leaders come in from these from this coup, how emotional it is, for you to know that, you know, women are leading the spring Revolution, when everyone around you makes you feel like, Oh, you're not as strong as men, or you're not as your you know, you're very more valuable poor, compared to men. How emotionally is overdue?
Nyein 1:07:28
Yeah, that's, that's, you know, that's, that's, I think, I think that's how we prove it, you know, you know, for the time being, we usually, you know, emotional and fed, when it comes to the consistency and, you know, a lot of a lot of works, I think, I think it's the same with, you know, when, when a man, you know, contribute works. And yeah, it's like that.
Saw 1:08:02
You know, it's, we're getting there. The unfortunate thing is that we need like, event like this to happen, so the woman can prove that, you know, they can do just as much or even better than men. And I hope that this coup can be an example for all the people in the Myanmar to remember that, you know, discrimination as it must be left in the history, and now we should look forward in knowingly, a set woman as equally as men and have equity in the society. But nevertheless, it's really nice to know that, you know, a lot of women leaders are coming out, and, you know, just like you, who are also part of this Omen leaders who has done a lot to spread the news of the coup. And, you know, from doing so, you have received a lot of awards. So would you like to share those awards with us?
Nyein 1:09:20
Oh, yeah, yeah. The last I didn't, I didn't get like, like so many, so many benefits from the crew will you know, but, but the last, the last thing is that with the, when I was looking for differences here, and we usually we usually, you know, compete. Can I say, compete in Super award, and, and, and for the 2020 31 that we got, we got the, you know, Frontier photographers For what, you know, in print here, we have like, four, four photographers. So, so yeah, yeah, it's kind of it's kind of great that, that we that we received that award with our with our portfolios.
Saw 1:10:18
Wow, that's, that's amazing. And you also had a lot of, you know, photo exhibition projects that you worked on. So are they mainly about the picture of the coup or?
Nyein 1:10:41
Yeah, yeah, it's mainly it's mainly about politics. And yeah. Yeah. Because because of the coop have been the conditional media and the other gallery in you know, in, in Korea, or in France, they try to curate decorate a lot of my photos. And they do they exhibited in their, in their galleries. I think I think it's really, this really is just another way of showing spreading the news for Myanmar.
Saw 1:11:29
And, you know, it's, I was kind of sad to, to know that you're working on the the exhibition well now exhibition, but the documentary for the Milan refugees in the MIT border. But you know, for, for some reasons, you couldn't continue doing that anymore. However, you know, I really want to know, I guess, and also spread the awareness what's happening in metal powder, that you touch on it a little bit. But I really want to know how bad the situation there is. Because I know a lot of my ethnic people are there. I am a Korean. So there are a lot of Korean there. And they've been there since long before the coup since the Civil War started. And they have been escaping there. And sometimes the Thailand government even had to like close the border so that there's no population, I guess, surplus or population overpopulation in the camps. So yeah, since you you have experience being there and you have you have seen them in person, or I was wondering if you can go a little deeper into it and share our spirit to the wall that the listeners that are listening right now.
Nyein 1:13:08
Yeah, but when I, when I go to miss out what I'm, what I was doing is that I didn't I didn't have a chance to go in the refugee camps in the border, but, but I had like, like, so about my house. My my data's story is about a house, you know, it's about the house, a house that fields with you know, you know, who lost their home, you know, there are like 21 people in that house. And that house, all 21 people they don't have any document or you know, anything because they have to because they have to love, love Myanmar you know, for their for their safety, you know, they're like, in there there. There there is like three or four CPM teachers and you know, sorry, the Korean people and you know, some people they are like, full in a gym, Myanmar and then go back to Thailand. They don't even go go to on site, you know, they just stay in that one pig or they compound off that house, you know, you miss out. I tried to try to, you know, talk to them, but mostly they, at first they don't really, they don't really comfortable, you know, talking their story to me because they're really afraid of, you know, getting a respect. They really worry about the family members that left in Myanmar. So most of them they don't they don't they don't Target and prototyping, I have to I have to earn their trust. No, no, I have to earn their trust, I have to go there, like a couple of times when I'm watching this off. After that, after I share my stories, and after that, they they told me their stories, which is like, which is really just really, really sad, sad story. They can they can do any jobs in in a Myanmar and then once they find the cost the folder in Thailand, they can even go outside. It's really, it's really hard for them. That's why I decided that that story that, you know, that story will be a long time, you know, I wanted to keep as a, as a, as an archive, and, you know, for their for their security.
Saw 1:16:03
Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, that's
Nyein 1:16:07
a mess out there. Like they're like, a lot of a lot of people, you know, who are not in refugee camps. VHS teachers, they, with the with the help of the other?
Saw 1:16:23
Got it? Got it. Yeah. Yeah, thank thank you so much for, you know, sharing all these important information with us, especially what you had to go through during the coup, it was really saddening, and it was really hard to, hard to listen to, because I, so you know, as a Burmese, a person who is currently living overseas, I also still have a lot of friends and family in Burma, who are still, you know, going through the hardships, and we're, you know, running away, and who are constantly has to be on their food so that they don't get arrested. So glad that you were able to escaped in, in, you're able to, you know, to stand on your own and and try your best to, to be positive and to share these, these share these news and spread these awareness. With that, I would like to, you know, request you if she can give some encouragement to the people, especially when we're in the foot of journalism.
Nyein 1:17:50
Yeah, yeah, I just, I teach when I say that. I mean, I mean, if you're really, really interested in photography, whether dumping something out your agenda, whether you're gay or no man should just have to have to follow. Follow your dreams. Yeah.
Saw 1:18:14
Awesome. Thank you. Is there anyone that you want to shut up? From the journalism field?
Nyein 1:18:22
Yeah, I want to. Yeah, yeah. There's someone. Yeah, that is my friend. You know, he has been arrested on silent day. I did. I didn't heard any any news. Yeah, I want to shut up.
Saw 1:18:46
Okay. Do you know if you can share his name or
Nyein 1:18:55
two? Think? I think it's better if we not if we don't if we don't share his name, because I didn't I didn't get any, any new news or anything. One after he he ever said. So somebody and his and, and his his this federal photographer who got killed in that in the in the cell. So yeah.
Saw 1:19:28
All right. Understand? Yeah. I pray in and I hope that, you know, your friends will be able to see you again. And we'll be able to, you know, be able to fix it for my kids. And just not think about all the atrocities that's happening. And I hope that we're getting closer to that day.
Nyein 1:19:53
Yeah, yeah, I really. I really hope that I can, I can go back to my My country and
Saw 1:20:04
yeah, I wasn't gonna ask you this because, you know this, this is a very sensitive topic. But if you're comfortable sharing you Are you still? Do you still have connection with your parents or your family or colleagues?
Nyein 1:20:28
Yeah, I still I still have have a have that connection with my with my clothing. And my, my family. Yeah.
Saw 1:20:39
That's great. That's great to hear. Yeah. So last question I guess I have for you is, how can the listeners connect with you? Or check out the photo series that you've done?
Nyein 1:20:55
Yeah, I think I think listeners can, can can can watch my, my Instagram because because that is the only only platform that I upload my photos because on Facebook, I don't I don't really don't really upload anything for my security. So yeah, in Instagram, I try to try to upload a lot of photos.
Saw 1:21:23
Yeah. Awesome. Any last words? For the audience?
Nyein 1:21:34
Okay, I think I think I I think they will, they will, they will know what they are. They want to listen. Yeah.
Saw 1:21:46
All right. Well, thank you very much for being vulnerable and sharing your story that was really, really touching and really scary. And I hope that you know, the listeners can able to guess how crazy it is in Myanmar right now. And you know, what it means to be a photo journalist and what it means to be a photo journalists during the coop. So thank you for sharing.
Nyein 1:22:22
Yeah, yeah, I'm happy to share my experiences. Yeah. Thank you.
Host 1:22:55
Thank you for taking the time to listen to this show. I realized that this is an enormously difficult time for many people who love me and more these days, myself included. And at times, you might despair that there's anything at all we can do to stop the horrors unfolding there. However, just the mere fact of staying informed is helping the bear continue to witness and keep a focus on this issue when much of the international media has moved on. And the only way that we can do our part in continuing to provide this content is through the support of generous donors, listeners like yourselves. If you found this episode of value and would like to see more shows like it, please consider making a donation to support our efforts. Both monthly pledges or one time donations are equally appreciated. Thank you deeply in advance. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military coup. We welcome your contribution, any form currency your transfer method, Your donation will go to support a wide range of humanitarian missions, aiding those local communities who need it most. Donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movement CVM families of deceased victims, internally displaced person IDP camps, food for impoverished communities, military defection campaigns, undercover journalists, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies COVID relief and much more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs. You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution for a specific activity or project you would like to support. Perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode. All of this humanitarian aid work is carried out by a nonprofit mission that or Burma. Any donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fund. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website better burma.org That's BETTRVURM a.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we take donations through Patreon Venmo, GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either the Insight Myanmar better Burma websites for specific links to those respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org. If you'd like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration and support