Transcript: Episode #326: Fault Lines
Below is the complete transcript for this podcast episode. This transcript was generated using an AI transcription service and has not been reviewed by a human editor. As a result, certain words in the text may not accurately reflect the speaker's actual words. This is especially noticeable when speakers have strong accents, as AI transcription may introduce more errors in interpreting and transcribing their speech. Therefore, it is advisable not to reference this transcript in any article or document without cross-referencing the timestamp to ensure the accuracy of the guest's precise words.
00:13
Years of unrest, four years of civil war, and now a natural disaster of this scale, it really is a trifecta of despair, and today, the official death toll climbed above 2000
00:41
Scramble to rescue survivors every minute counts, with hundreds still trapped under rubble all over Central Myanmar
00:50
And local hospitals are overwhelmed food and water is running out too.
Host 01:10
At its core, Insight Myanmar is about connection. We strive to bridge divides and foster understanding by sharing the stories of those living through extraordinary times, connection fuels empathy, and empathy inspires action. So whether it's through tales of spirituality, reflections on cultural heritage, or accounts of people's struggles against oppression and their aspirations for a better future, we aim to forge connections towards a sheer humanity that transcends borders. Let's start to build on that connection with the interview follows.
Brad 03:00
And welcome back, ladies and gentlemen our continuing coverage of what little information we can glean and what insights we can manage to muster about the ongoing crisis in Myanmar in the wake of not only the 7.7 earthquake, but also the 5.5 aftershock that was Recently felt in Mandalay. I'm lucky enough to be joined once again, by Joah, who we previously interviewed as a CDM defector from the military from the early days of the coup. And we're going to be looking at, not only how does the military generally operate in times of crises, and how do they exploit these crises, but also we are going to be looking at specifically what information has come out, and what do we know is going on on the ground, with regards to the rescue efforts and with regards to relief efforts. So before we get into that, Joah, thank you very much for for coming back and speaking with us once again on such short notice in this very difficult time, I want to give you the chance first to introduce yourself for the audience who who are not familiar with you.
Kyaw Kyaw 04:02
Thank you very much for for allowing me, allowing me to describe this situation going on in Myanmar in time of such crisis. Yeah. My name is Joah. I was a former military pediatrician, a former captain who was the fact that after the coup in 2021 yes.
Brad 04:25
Okay, okay, so let's just jump right into it then. So what do we actually know about the situation on the ground? Obviously, Mandalay is the epicenter. That's where the earthquake really hits. Naypyidaw is not very far from Mandalay, but we also know that there is destruction, extensive destruction in Sagaing, extensive destruction in magway. How, how bad is the destruction and how far does the destruction reach?
Kyaw Kyaw 04:55
Yes, as as far as the the destruction reach in. This would be the worst earthquake in Myanmar so so far. So since the epicenter is just between the Mandalay region and Sakai region, yeah, they they have, like, Aces, so extreme des all over the city. Now it's like almost the whole city is annihilator or destroy and that, I think if I have to, like, count the destroy that area, it will be like, mentally, the guy and Taung, like major city and then another city, like Asia, meeting pure boy, making, like a few other cities are also involved, and they they so many other city who are affected by the earthquake, but not as severe as the previous city that I mentioned before. The cities I mentioned like almost totally devastated, they are a lot of causality, according to the official report, like it is around that two or 1700 people, but I think it's barely scratched the ice pack since we have been like trying to have contact with the locus and interviewing the local about current conditions. So we have a girlfriend that, or at least like I take, like around 5000 that at least things most of the city, that I try to have an interview and answer like they have at least 4000 that stay and whom that they can recover the dead bodies. So yeah, they and the most devastated city, like Manley and Sakai there would be like, at least, look at guessing at least around 10,000 double in each city. So yeah, I think it is really devastated. Is like the worst earthquake in our country history. Maybe because the last time we, we face, we encounter such devastated disaster is in 2008 not guess so, yeah, it's totally Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know where to speak. Yeah, it's really devastated.
Brad 07:21
So I want to, I want to go back, how many bodies Did you did you say 10,000 bodies? Yeah, I'm asking about the the number of dead bodies. You were talking about, the did you say 10,000?
Kyaw Kyaw 07:31
Yes, yes. That overshare official report is like 1700 but the International, you know, the experts are estimating that that will be around 10,000 bodies. And I think, according to our like aw and low gas witnesses, it could be a very, you know, very close number to the real debt tool and and that is the MOE of the government. Since the 2008 90s, they they always report only what they can confirm, and that if they usually try to reduce the cost study so that they can say faces. So yes, that tool you were asking would be correct. It would be the correct estimation.
Brad 08:18
Wow. I mean that there's a very big difference in those numbers. So what, what do we know is currently being done about this? Because in a situation like this, we need to rescue the people who are trapped underneath the buildings. We need to remove the dead bodies. We need to move injured people to hospitals, and we need to start giving people emergency food and emergency shelter. This would be the most important thing. What do we know is currently being given to the victims?
Kyaw Kyaw 08:48
Yes, that's the usual procedure to restaurant. But the thing is that we the government, like Lexi the the junta government, they have, they have not been prepared for such disaster, for when the year says they just try to hold the power of the state. So that's this is a problem. Every country could face such disaster, but every country have plans and resource to response those kind of like devastating desert. But our country is not like others. We don't have the manpower, we don't have the technique, we don't have the preparation and equipment. So usually, when when such disaster organic entry, what we most rely on is the volunteer and the unity of the whole country, like previously in 2090 and 2020 21 COVID, we usually had to rely on the most of the power from the youth, young people and volunteers. And then it they were like well supported by the government, and like we, we used to. To overcome the disaster with the, you know, unity of the country. But now this time, it is not happening, since all the volunteer or the technician or the expert, like at least half of them, are in the junta, in the prison in the other country yet that there is one of the biggest problem to could to respond this earthquake. So it's been, it's been almost like three days since the first fast attack or Aqua. We haven't we, we have not been able to rescue, you know, like suspicion, even the suspicion portion of the victims that are trapped in the building and so and the thing is that the seeing the rescue team and process is really, is really very sad. And some, somebody, yes, I cannot say how to disgu. They don't have any equipment. They don't have any proper training. They don't have if they don't even have manpower in some other country, some of the city, like zakais and other small city, even in mainly, like the, you know, the primary force that are responsible is not, it's doesn't come from the government. It came from the local charity groups and look at voluntia, but they, they can only use smaller model machinery and equipment, like some like Corona and hammer and so sometimes they, they have to try for like one or two days, at least, do even, Like, rescue a person in a truck building, but the the collapse building were already 1000s in each city. So sometimes people trying to save the person trapped inside, but they think they don't have proper expert or trainings. Sometimes they make it worse, like, when they try to, like, remove the bricks. And bricks are other broken thing it it make the ability more collapsed. And sometimes they had to let go of the person. Sometimes they had to echo that. That's the the voices they are hearing from inside the ability are like slowly fading and disappear. There's the real situation here, even if there is some government resource, like governments civil servers, who are trying to have, like the first rest for that, even they don't have the enough training, so they might use the improper techniques, or sometimes they might worsen the situation. Some of our people were being rescued. That's correct, but I don't think it is. It's barely touch the percentage that a country should be able to rescue. So only I, so I can say only the lucky people from from the Britain are out, not because we have enough of techniques and trainings and things like that so and now, when it came to the party of the earthquake, the rescuing the survivor is not all. Is not the only problem. Now, since the yesterday, the other problem certainly is like the to removing the dead body, because it's began to stench, and it even affect the whole city, like it could affect their mental health, it could affect their physical health, like, like it could, you know, produce like infection and Stan ace, another kind of pollution. And now the people like from that guy, that guy is the most devastated CD since they they got they got most severely, and they got less and less hurt from the military government, since that region is like, regarded as a conflicted zone. So now they are asking that, even if no one could save the survivor, at least the some came, at least like people who came over there and like, remove the dead body, because it the whole city is now starting to touch for the dead bodies, like you know, survival, survival have nowhere to go back to live near the dead Body, and then trap meetings inside the meeting who are stay surviving, I they have to, like now they have to suffer not from the injury, but for the stench of the dead body that is like closely lying beside them. So that is now the big, biggest issue. So even with the International have, you know, we have like, at least three or five things who came, who flown into our country from the another country, like China and, you know, Taiwan. But I have a Taiwan is still not allowed to have, I don't know why there's a Delhi, like, it could be like, I don't know a political problem with the. With the China and Myanmar and things like that. But as far I know, since, since yesterday, Taiwan team is not able to help. And there's like China team, India team and some things like that. But as soon as they arrived, most of them were brought to the headquarter Napier like to have the civil servants like military organization that are like that suffer from the earthquake, but only after they only after they got enough people to have in their headquarter in nipi. Or some of the forces are sent to the mentally and like to clear some to to clear and refuse another victim. There's the ongoing rescue situation. Things in, for example, in in Lee region, in taoyu region, at least, we have confirmed that 950 houses are totally devastated. The other houses have damaged. A lot of people are trapped in the houses, and then people have to, like, live on a boat and sleep on the boat in the there's a very big lake, in a famous Lake now they they have to sleep over there and then in mentally. In Sakai, like we can see that 80% or Sakai City has already been destroyed, and they are a lot of they are a lot of victim all over the city, but they are not getting any help for for Asia, certainly yesterday, like many other charity forces, 30 organization from the other city, trying to enter the second but most of them were stopped, stopped and such and like, as for permission, buying the military forces because they they are not only helping the Zakai city, they are also like, you know, putting a lot of lot of gags around the city so that should no resistance force can enter, but or the resistance force the side of the register. Force, I have already announced that they were stopped any military offense during the disaster, and they are willing to help, but still, the military is only getting the CD and like restricting the in and out of the city without trying to instead of being trying, being trying to help them. So yeah, that's one of the problem now that even the volunteer we are stopped and restricted from having the CD because of the security reason, and this is also ridiculous, like they are like killing the fitting slowly inside the waiting that's the one problem again and again. After some of the volunteer has permission to go into the second city, they don't have enough equipment and technique and knowledge. So sometimes they just, like about 15 or 20 people, like they came by themselves with the car. When they reach the sides, they try to remove the brakes with their hands. And this is, this wasn't going nowhere. Like we, they have good work. We our people, but they don't. They can. They can really do much anything. So sometimes they just will go back, or they just have to find some crowbars and some hammers that they can personally work on, like knock a tea or, like, knock a proper, you know, proper rest shooting. So people are doing just what they can. I think it, it's that kind of would increase the death toll in this cities. So about the rescue program is not going well. So about the food and water, so the government is doing nothing about it, as far I know, the emergency food and water came from. They look at donation and look at charity, and it's not barely it's barely enough. So that's the another problem. Then, when you talk about the medical rest for money restful. I think a lot of the hospital have already had full burden. Most of the patient has to reside and wait just just inside the compound, or the military compound, or the hospital, sometimes just outside the compound the hospital, like they are trying to just they are lying on the ground and waiting for the daughters, and that the doctors are already being overwhelmed, and they don't have, like, enough Santa for duty, such kind of condition. So we have logs, a portion of the survivor that we that we saved from the collapse site, but some of them dying in the hospital needlessly because of our results, and not in the first day we have seen we have even here and here about some doubters like crying in the hospital, but because, Lord, They They, even though they are doing everything like they, they cannot save most of them because of these setup and the limited resource access. So, so we are now having the insufficient rescue forces, insufficient manpower to even remove the dead body, and like totally is. Sufficient resources to give the necessary medical treatment to the victims.
Brad 20:07
This is, this is harrowing. What what you're saying here, and I want to examine these things one by one by one, because there is so much happening, yes, first, first, with the corpses. So you are telling me that there is a fundamental inability to bury the bodies, and this is, this is becoming a health danger, that that the bodies will decompose. So my question is, why is it not possible to to do this? Are there too many bodies to bury, or is that there is nobody to bury the bodies? Is there some other difficulty? Is it a religious difficulty or cultural difficulty? Why is it so hard to remove and bury or cremate the bodies? Yeah, the first
Kyaw Kyaw 20:55
thing is, like, we don't have, like, enough Cray or backhoe or manpower to remove the volume from inside the building. That's the one problem. We don't even have to consider about the religious other culture we we are just we don't have just enough results to even remove the dead body inside the building. So, yeah, there are a lot of that body trapping in the building. That's the first problem. The second one is that even if we have removed some of the dead bodies from from the size, but we don't even have the necessary, you know, creamy cremation sparks, unnecessary walk like to, like do some, you know, to bury the to bury their COVID improper way. So that is what have. That is also what happened in 2008 and two and, you know, and then 2090 and 20 COVID, COVID disaster like people, the cost has to be lining up on outside of the mock like to be cremated. Cremated like people, family have to wait for their time to get their family member or the victim to be cremated. So that is the another problem. So what you say is true, we don't. We didn't even have the chance to consider about the religion and other culture. We just don't have enough resource, that's all.
Brad 22:20
And this is and so even though in many of these cases, we are talking about bodies that are trapped inside of buildings, and therefore, I would assume these are not bodies that that living people are very close to physically because they cannot get into the building. You're saying, Even so, this is still a serious health risk.
Kyaw Kyaw 22:42
Yes, this is all serious, really a serious health risk, since, you know, since in the ancient time, and while war time, sometimes the city is surrounded by the enemy, and like when they cannot bury the bury, the cause of the fallen, fallen soldier is just gradually began the heart hazard for the living people over this is what happened in this and even even not we are not considering, you know, other hazards from their bodies. We even with the stench or the body, could care person that are trapped inside the building. So yeah, for Lexi, we have like 20 people trapped inside a building, and two of them dying, like things the first earthquake. Now the stanch could really, like, disturb the other people with, you know, their blood breed, their oxygenation, and like their mother, like they could be suffocated with the stanch and things like that. And they, you know, and they, they could be like, totally break, mentally breakdown. And it could, it could really harm their their heart, if people that are trapped inside, and even, like, sometimes people have nowhere to go, but so that they had to live just near, near the, you know, compound on the ground where some of, some of the waiting were already dying inside the building, and they they are having this touch, and sometimes it could affect their, you know, water and food system, as soon as they will be rags and other people with the, you know, cost and everything. So one city is like enclosed, and they are over 100 or 200 that body truck begin to dig, almost that is seriously, a, seriously, a big help, asset for the survivors also, and for, you know, either for the Zakai region, like the looking, I say, at least 400 to 1000 cops are stay, you know, trapped inside. And now it began to stretch. And they have, they they are food and water begin very thin. And so they now, they are crying for help. And people are really trying to have but the military has already, like, stay restricting all the, you know, internet connection like before, internet connection like. Researching their Facebook and other social media. And they are just getting closing the city for people to go in off. It is a, not an easy way. And then yesterday, they, like, they officially stopped the foreign press to came into the country to, you know, to get a whole this situation that's, that's one, one of the problem to the spoke fast enough from the gender, like he said, For ridiculous thing we have ever have yesterday, that they cannot allow the foreign trust because there is no good a commodity they he said to the Foreign Press, that they they can provide, like good room and like electricity and water and things like that. So they cannot allow the foreign drugs and things like that. So he just most regular things I ever accept, had from a government stock pass yesterday. So that is one of the problem too. So what you are asking is called, it would be a great headset from the border is not and so and so.
Brad 26:02
Let's, let's look at that the military then, because in a normal country, would expect that the military is, is the ones who are able to respond. They have helicopters, they have heavy machinery, they have trucks, and they have, you know, supplies of food and medicine. And the military can establish emergency camps where people can live, where people can receive medical treatment. Militaries are capable of this is the the Myanmar military, the tamado actually engaging with this crisis. Are they helping with rescue efforts, relief efforts, reconstruction efforts, relocation efforts, so.
Kyaw Kyaw 26:40
I don't think they have been with the, you know, reconstruction relocation, but they are trying to have with the rescue effort. But the thing is that to be able to have in this kind of situation like they have to, they have to use all kind on the deck. But the thing is not. They are. They are not, you know, calling back any food that were already applying in a conflicted area. And they they are keeping two foods that, do, you know, to to be in the condition or better ready. And so they are just using their spare Fauci that, the forces that only they can spare after, you know, the Brian or the forces around the country, so that's the problem. They are helping, but they are having, like, I think, I don't know, like, 10 or 20% of the Fauci from that that really should have the people. So I think they are trying to have, but it is not being affected because the SAN are to have. The people have no training, has no proper equipment, and they they have no enough knowledge to be responsible in such kind of like, such kind of disaster, that's the problem. So they are trying to help, I set, but they don't have, they don't have anything, and they are not using everything, even the resistance forces other Agni and Bruce promised that they will not attack the city in this kind, in this kind of, in this kind of devastated time, and they are even offering to have in the military control region, just to only reduce the people if the military allowed it. But military don't restaurant to any kind of request that from the resistant forces that you know often have. And then they they don't even use the forces that are deployed in the completed area. So they are not just using the spare foods. Is really not affected, I will say it is just for sure.
Brad 28:41
And so I think this is an important point as well. The we have heard from eaos and PDF that they are offering a ceasefire, that they are they are temporarily stopping the conflict. So I want to clarify, why has this decision been made? So these organizations have agreed, or have offered a ceasefire to the military in order to allow humanitarian aid and rescue efforts and and relocation and and reconstruction efforts, if I'm understanding correctly what you've said, and also the military the damador have not accepted this offer. Is that correct?
Kyaw Kyaw 29:22
Yes, it's. It is correct every, every one of the resident for his offering. Now they are having in their cultural region, but they they also they don't have enough resources. So they are they want to invite the other, other, you know, other charity for the other international rescue team into their reading. But the military is cutting off every one of them. And then again, they even trying to offer the half into the military control zone, like without any Medicare, sorry, without any military advance. But the military is also not responding to those kind of offers. Mm.
Brad 30:00
Are typical for the military, unfortunately and and so to make to make this even worse, not only are we saying that the military is not offering the assistance and the military has not accepted the offer of of a ceasefire, but I am to understand that the military is actually working to make relief efforts more difficult. So let's look at the different stages of that. Number one, I understand that there is a curfew still in effect, and that is making rescue efforts difficult. Is that true?
Kyaw Kyaw 30:33
Yeah, yes. This is true. Yeah. This is also the one of the more ridiculous thing I've seen the military have done. Yeah, they are stay put in the curfew order, so that now they read the civilian and the other charity group who are rescuing the civilian have to go home after the night, like in some place it will be like 12am or sometimes Tempe and the cafe hour, like they have to, they have to move. Did they have to return to their home and then again in in the first day of earthquake, a lot of the charity and volunteer from other city affected by earthquake, they try to came inside this, inside the affected city as soon as possible, but they are stopped at the you know, outside of the city, because it is in the early morning and it is in The middle of the night during the curfew hour, so they are not being let inside the country as soon as it happens. Sometimes, sometimes that volunteer have to wait outside the country until the curfew is lifted. So that is, that is one of the most particular things. And then we, our country, is restricted from the Facebook and other in some particular area, the in a Moe condition are being cut off because of because of the conflict. And I think everyone think it is that is time that this restriction should be lifted by the military, at least for the time being, before the war begin broken out again. But the military doesn't care. So now we are operating with the, you know, researching of their social media, like we have to use VPNs to do even us as a Facebook since they have researched it. And then they we have to use, we have to operate within the, you know, mobile and Internet connection researching and other research as well. So what you're seeing is true. They are, they are. They stay applying the curfew in these devastating times. And the worst thing is that yesterday, amongst the discretion, like 12 young people from monthly were taken into into the military with the constriction law. So it means that they don't, they didn't stop at the to recruit, to get the new recruits from the civilian so and then again, I have not confirmed the source, but I have seen a person from the volunteer team talk about some of some of The military posts and checkpoint, trying to recruit, and, you know, trying to force falsely reconstruct some of the volunteer people when they see, when they encounter with the checkpoints and things like that. So now the volunteer are not even had to have the fittings. They had to avoid the curfew, and they had to avoid the, you know that the forced conscription, the force recruiting from the military, since yesterday was the most devastated day for the earthquake victim state, 1212, young people from the manly were constricted into conscripted into the military.
Brad 33:39
I mean, this is, this is ridiculous, and so and so, in addition to this, you're saying also there's the information restriction. You're saying that that people have to operate within the telecommunications restrictions. They have to use VPNs. Facebook is is being blocked. A lot of the country does not have internet, does not have electricity, and you're saying the foreign journalists cannot come in. Yes. So the big The question here is, why? Why does the military not want this information to be to be released?
Kyaw Kyaw 34:08
Yes, this is their MO since they Tun a market and COVID Because, but the military wouldn't want anywhere near their atrocity. And did those kind of, you know, such mismanagement. They don't want to be seen by the foreign products. So they, this is their usual animals, because we have already seen a 2008 like is that they have, you know, block all their foreign products, and they, and then they are, like, propagating the whole country that they got the situation and that control. They are the savior of the country. And now, even in this digital era where they cannot control, them the flow of the real, you know, information, they are trying as much as possible to control the real narrative. And now they will be trying. They will be trying to use this clue. Situation to their own benefits, like in 2000 h, where the with the one, the whole country is devastated back then, and they just trying to enforce the $2 a constitution law according to their favor. Now, I think they, they were now in this earthquake. This is that I think they were trying to get something out of it. Instead of, like, having really helping this people, like, I think they were trying to get some events, some advantage in the military tactic and political, you know, political strategy.
Brad 35:36
And so we, we've heard these rumors as well, because you've said that, that people were being turned back. The volunteers were not able to to go to the most affected areas. But we have also heard that there was a redirection of of I think it was international volunteers who went to help sagay, if I recall correctly, and they were removed by the military to Nepal, which is the only area that the military actually wants to, wants to protect and save. Is this true? Yes.
Kyaw Kyaw 36:07
And most of the Indonesian they have were brought to nipilo first, and then the they have some, some of the troop, like some of the Chinese and Indian to the mandley First, the manly has it is, it is early, but they have, like, better information and better communication. So I think like they are just sending the truth, where they can say physics, where they where it can be benefited for them. So that's why they are not like they are still not allowing people to enter the second region where the most affected and devastated, devastated. Destruction occurs because they usually don't want outside people to see how they are being useless in that kind of situation and how they are mismanaged. Management have caused the people to suffer. So I think that's their usual thing since the 2008 not yet that kind of thing. Yes, I think so.
Brad 37:05
Okay, so it's, it's, that's interesting. So it's not so much about protecting Napier as a city and making making sure that people are not suffering there. Do we know, by the way, if there's any extensive damage in April.
Kyaw Kyaw 37:20
Yes, Nebula has also accepted injury to that they, I think they have, at least, I don't know, according to the confirmed information, at least 300 people, people are that from the from the aquatic expression, and 1000s of people are also injury in the Napier. Like most of them are civil servants and the family of the military members. So, yes, they also far from the extensive, I don't know, extended distraction. But the thing is that they have already, not only they have, like, you know, do proper cleaning to the important houses, like the neighborhood where the, you know, the former military leader, live and other general live, they have already, already used the military engineer to reconstruct So, yeah, I think they, they, they, I don't think they, they are influencers in NATO also, yes.
Brad 38:12
Okay, so, so it's not that there's a need, as far as the military sees, for additional aid in epito. They already have the aid in EBITDA that they need. They just want to stop the international aid community from seeing the level of the damage and from being able to help the people in in areas that are not under military control. Is that correct?
Kyaw Kyaw 38:34
Yeah, yeah. I think this is one of the one on I think this is one of the reason. But another reason would be like they don't have the capability to even protect their closer circuit. That is why they are, like asking they have, using the half of the International, you know, expert and equipment in their in the, you know, headquarters, so that they are people go to escape. Fact they are people could be hurt fast. I think that is also one of the reasons too.
Brad 39:03
Interesting, interesting stuff. So okay, so things are obviously not going well, and one of the phenomenally important points to clarify is the conflict itself, the ongoing conflict we understand and and I want to make sure that the information is correct, but we understand that the military is continuing to carry out air strikes and carry out bombardments in areas in in Mandalay division that have been affected by by the earthquake. The military is continuing its its war efforts. Is that also happening?
Kyaw Kyaw 39:41
Yes, according to my knowledge and the media and the media confirmation yesterday, at least three, three time, at least in the natural region and some other region where they continuously, they was continuously booming before the earthquake yesterday, I think, at least three time they committed like. Bombing in those area where people are suffering from the, you know, from the earthquake. And there is one set truth in among this disaster. So we have a lot of quasity in some conflicted zone when the earthquake came, because people like hiding inside their building instead of coming up. Because, you know, as soon as the people hear the loud noise and the ground shaking, usually, in other in other country, people would think that it would be Aqua, and they will run out of the building. But in some region, but they, they, they just the first thing they think when the ground is shaking and loud noise is that the military is bombing them. So, so most of them trying to go inside the building, and sometimes of them trying to go inside the shelters. And when the when the buildings are collapsed because of the equity. So some, a portion of the people were trapped and dying inside the building because they thought it was bombing from the military. Yeah, that is the sub true, insane region that that kind of thing happened. So, yeah, I think these kind of military, like bond wings and the war situation, really affected the ving too.
Brad 41:15
I mean, this is, I mean, it, it's difficult to comprehend this. It seems beyond heartless and cruel. What? What is the strategy? What is the reason for this?
Kyaw Kyaw 41:27
Yes, I cannot even understand, because I think they I think they are very desperate, because they are on their Brinks or losing their territory now they are controlling. So they thought that if the PDF and other EEO offense during this time, like they cannot protect the regions anymore. So that is why they are. They are trying to, you know, do the bombing as a precaution and things like that. But I mean, the PDF and other troops are not that like a hot like killing machine. They have already ceasefire, and they are helping in their own region, so no one is attacking them. But stay they are thinking that these people were to create things like them, and they they are afraid of they were loose. So I think they are trying to attack fast.
Brad 42:20
I think this is, this is sheer insanity, but it is the military. What do we Yes, what do we expect? So? So the fundamental question is, right now, on the ground, how much aid is actually happening? How much is actually getting through in terms of local groups, whether these are PDF eao tamado Or just non political charity groups and civil society groups, and how much international aid and support is actually making it to the people who are most affected, whether this is in San Rai whether this is in Mandalay, how much aid? Is there happening?
Kyaw Kyaw 43:02
Yes, I think the Indonesian forces, like at least 100 of the people, and they are trying to help the people. And we have see, we have seen some good news yesterday that some of the people were rescued by the buying these volunteer and international organizations. But the thing is that sometimes we have to use a lot of effort to to, like, uncover the break of a building, and so that we only got one survivor in one day, in some building, in in some building, if we are lucky, there are at least, like, 40 people are trapped inside the building with just one wall featuring us some sometimes, so when we when we like, break the wall and when we make an entrance, we could save like 40 people, or sometimes 30 or 50 people, but it's a rare occasion. But so sometimes it's also depend on the lack and lack and situation. Sometimes the easiest building to to make way of the victim has very few people, and now we so we can save only a few people, and sometimes we can see a large group of people. And the one of unfortunate thing about the fitting is that the equity what's happened, happened in the Friday so the so we have a lot of mocks, and we have our our like Muslim people, like they are praying inside the mocks, but one that actually happening. So a lot of people were trapped inside those mosque and so I think they you know that the crowd has more got more damage because of the earthquakes, for the religious collection, religious meetings, and then we have, like schools and banks and things like that, where people are most crowded in that type in that time of the earthquake. So we got most fitting in the light. Schools and boarding schools and banks and things like that. So now that all the people are trying to help, but because of the limited resources, we have been able to have to the certain amount of people, lucky people, and sometimes it really depends on the situation of the building and the availability of the resource. So it's hard to say so.
Brad 45:27
So, I mean, this is obviously a very difficult topic and a very painful one, but you're, you're saying the death toll is rising. You know when, when the first reports were coming out. We heard numbers, you know, in like 500 I think it was probably on on Saturday that that I heard the number had been adjusted to about 1000 you're now saying that the official number is 1700 and that in reality, the death toll is is 10,000 and we often think that in disasters like this, the reason that the death toll keeps going up is just because we are discovering new victims. We are we are finding new people or identifying new people who had died in the initial disaster. But the truth is this number will increase because there are people who are alive now when we are recording this interview on the Monday, and these people are going to die because they could not be rescued in time, or because they could be rescued but they could not be given medical care in time, or because they cannot get clean water and and things like this. What do you think the the next few weeks are going to be like in in these regions, in insegai, magui, Mandalay, possibly, you know, northern ba go, what do you think that the death toll is going to continue climbing quickly, or do you think that we are, we are soon going to reach the the maximum point, and things will stabilize?
Kyaw Kyaw 47:09
Yes, is really a difficult question, and even the expert would won't, won't be able to answer is like, precisely because of the money situation, and further, depending on the rescue mission, because we are hoping that more international community, where it came to help, and I was hoping the military would finally, you know, have some some thoughts inside their door hut and like they might have left some restrictions. So we have to hope for many factors, like Indonesian they have, and the military cooperation and and then the our like, people unit, united effort to save the people so, so I'm not sure how they would turn up in a week, because it could like, you know, the rescue effort could be like, increase or Like, I don't know it could be decreased, like, depending on the money factor. So I'm just, I can just only hope for the past that we can, we can increase the effort and like, we now people have been, like, getting some experience and getting a handle on how to rescue the people in like, two or three days. So I think the effort will increase, and we could save as much as people possibly but the thing is that it is like a golden hour, like in our money emergency, because, you know, as soon as the building are trapped inside, they have a very limited time to continue surviving under the under the building there's for the lack of food and oxygen and things like that. So every hour is, you know, five hours for them, we are losing people, like minutes by minute. So as long as this kind of delayed and this kind of delay and registration are imposed by the military, we are not losing people hour after hour. So we have, like, suddenly heart or people, like in the in the first year of the earthquake, they are, you know, shouting and calling for her inside the building. And now the voice is the voice are beginning to be, like, faint and quiet, and sometimes we got some connection with the bit fitting inside the building. And then we lost the connection. And sometimes the people just report inside the building. They advise it begin like fainter. And now in some the building, like we stop hearing voices after three days of, you know, not being able to have take all the fitting. So yeah, I think that that tool will increase because of the, you know, trapping situation, and we be unable to take out the fitting. So most of the Britain would likely to be done slowly, of any other factor, a lot of factor. So yeah, that will. Increase. But is stay hard to say how much the debtor will increase depending on the situation of the Indonesian have like the heart from the people, from our people, from the other, you know, other country now they are like trying to collect the funds, and they are trying to support everything they can, to send money and support inside the country now the international media and podcast channel like you are trying to help out, as a brother knew. So I can only hope for the best, but I cannot say for sure.
Brad 50:31
And so the again, all of these questions are very important questions, but this is something that we have to reckon with, is the military can. Do you think that relief efforts can happen despite the military? It's clear that the military doesn't want to help. It's clear that the military wants to make everything worse. But is it possible for for aid to happen if, if we just decide we are going to help these regions and we don't care about the military, or is the military willing to start arresting and shooting rescue workers?
Kyaw Kyaw 51:11
Yes, I think is hard to say with military, because no, they are them. You know, they don't have any principle or any consideration of the people, like long before. So it's, it's really hard to save. So I'm just really hoping that the volunteer could walk up with their look, you know, another look at soldier and those kind of situation. And then I was hoping that more international hub would came inside the country, since the military, they don't have the authority to refuse they have from the other country. They have to let them in no matter what, and they have to let them have all the people no matter what. I think that could be an important factor from the international community and international have, which the military is very afraid of, to let the other country know that they are abusing the civilian. So I think that the more international media coverage and the more English they have, which relief the fittings from those disaster, and then it will also relief they have like they are shooting, arresting a false constituent, as long as they are, you know, people like foreign people working alongside the volunteer. I think they are giving the local volunteer to some kind of cover. I think there is one of the reasons that military won't let the press came inside the country. Yes, I want to say to our audience that we are in the despair new or have from anyone, from anywhere around the world. So yes, I just want to say, please have a skin to overcome this disaster and to reduce the fittings, and then, as all the community is doing now is like, we will have like, some kind of, like, large donation from the government to government. Like millions or dollars are coming inside the country. So as like other people are saying that please be careful with where your donation goes. Like we really, we really like hoping for the donation and Indonesian to have, but we want to be really affatic so that the donation will go where is really needed, instead of going inside the pocket of military, which will surely be abused. You know, the whole country know that the military would abuse a portion, at least abortion or they have into like into their own benefit. So please be careful. Please. You know, be careful where you would send a help and where you would donate the money, but stay please, trying to, trying to help with the financial and other resource to our to Our people. And that's what I want to say.
Host 54:10
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