Transcript: Episode #323: Aftershocks
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00:00
A reminder of our breaking news this hour, there have been two large earthquakes in central Myanmar, the first recorded at 06, 20 GMT with a magnitude of 7.7 10 minutes later, an aftershock with a magnitude of 6.4 was recorded. Both were near Mandalay. That trend has also been reported more than 1000 miles away in time.
00:20
rescue workers in Myanmar are digging for survivors after an earthquake caused devastation in Mandalay and other cities, more than 1000 people known to have died so far across Myanmar, almost two and a half 1000 others have been injured, and the death toll is expected to rise significantly.
Host 00:45
Before we get into today's show, I just want to add a quick reminder that any donation given to our nonprofit, better Burma will be shared with those in Myanmar who need it most. Any and all donations will make such a difference right now. Go to Insight myanmar.org/donation if you would like to contribute. Or stay tuned to the end of the episode to hear more options with that, let's get On to the show you. Hey, Jack min, thank you for joining us for another appearance on Insight Myanmar podcast. Thank you Joah for having me. Well, it's not the best conditions with which we speak to you, but they are very urgent conditions. And we are doing an emergency podcast to record and to put out. And we hope that this goes widely, because we have some extremely important things to cover here. I think what I want to start first off to prompt you is, as many will know, listening to this, we're recording this on March 28 a day ago in Myanmar, there was a 7.7 earthquake on the Richter scale Epicenter around Mandalay and caused absolute devastation. And we are still learning the details in real time and the responses to that situation, and that is what we're going to cover here. So if we could start off Jack by you telling us what you've learned, I know you've been in contact with many people on the ground. I know that it's also takes a personal tone for you. If you could share with us some of what you're hearing first, just about how people are actually coping on the ground with what's going on and what's happening to them.
Jack Myint 03:28
Thank you. Well, first and foremost, I want to caveat that I'm appearing here today as a citizen of Myanmar, currently based in Washington, DC, and so in that personal capacity, and also as a non resident Fellow at CSIS, the Center for Strategic and International Studies based here in Washington, DC, as you rightly pointed out, Joah, this is a natural disaster of epic and unprecedented proportions, the first in Over a century, right that has hit Myanmar 7.7 magnitude on the Richter scale, earthquake that that struck central Myanmar midday yesterday, with an epicenter in sagain, which is near Mandalay, second largest and most populous city in Myanmar. You know, I've since it, since it took place, I've been on the phone, non stop with contacts on the ground. I also have family back in Myanmar and extended family in Mandalay. So you can imagine, this is a an issue very personal and dear, near to my heart, the initial debt toll counts that have come back in official numbers at least, is currently at 140 you'll have seen that reported across the board, but the reality is that it could top 1000s. I mean, we still, you know, collecting information and the statistics on the A. Exact nature of the damage that this has done in the lives this has claimed. The earthquake hit with high intensity in Mendeley in particular, and brought down buildings, including hospitals and one of the largest monasteries in Mandalay, the humanitarian toll the impact of it, in addition to loss of lives out of injured individuals and the buildings homes being destroyed, loss of telecommunications services and internet, as well as individuals displaced out on the streets, sleeping in tents. It is very dire. I also was getting video footage and live updates of the lackluster first response, at least official first response to the to the crisis. You know, we as you know, Joah Myanmar is a very communal society, and a lot of the immediate and initial response has been mostly citizen driven, right? These are citizens who saw their fellow citizens going through this disaster, and then just open up their cabinets and fridges, see what they have, and load up their cars and go over to affected areas to help out that that has been more the case as a lot of DIY help and manpower to get people Out of that get people who are stuck in buildings out of them, right? And it was, it was heartbreaking to watch. You know, there was one particular, particularly striking video. There's one of this, this person using hammer and homemade materials to dig someone out of the rubble of a fallen building and another one holding their hand and fanning them as they as they fight for their life, right? That that's the kind of situation that's happening, and the level of support in albeit infrastructure or machinery to help these people, are simply not there at this time.
Host 07:35
Yeah, right. And I think what's also not there, at least as of the time that we're talking is an understanding as to what's actually happening on the ground. Just anecdotally, when the earthquake hit, and I was frantically trying to find out what was happening, there was at least on on the more English language, social media and online sites, which I assume many of our listeners fall into as of me, as do i There were, there was a lot about Thailand, and there were kind of the same stories and videos and pictures from Myanmar repeated over and over. And it was, it was really hard for me to get under those stories and try to find out about more, more contextual detail of what, what actually happened, and what is it like, aside from these, these images I keep seeing. So I also want to invite you to expand on your descriptions for those English language speakers out there that haven't had access through Burmese language sites, as well as through family and friends and contacts, to give us more of a context as to as to what type of devastation we're really talking about and what's happening there.
Jack Myint 08:39
Now, absolutely so right now, as I mentioned, you know, the destruction that hit these communities impacted hospitals, monasteries, universities, you know, private residences, the the immediate response, right, and the immediate need for responses in getting much needed medical supplies to those regions getting blood, there is high demand for blood in those areas, need for emergency kits and survival kits, as well as temporary tents blankets, even as people are no longer able to go back to their homes, and you will see cases where they have to camp out on the streets in these makeshift tents, as well as the loss of communication and Electricity, which is which is adding to the already lackluster recovery efforts right of finding survivors in these buildings, the there's a need for batteries, solar powered mechanisms for any form of electricity, really, in these regions. That that got hit and and machines and the manpower to to sort through the debris that that, I think is, is front and center here, as I mentioned. You know, the the immediate response, immediate official response, was unable to catch up with the reality of what's going on the ground. And yes, there are citizens, responsible, citizens taking up, taking it upon themselves to try and fill that vacuum. But it's simply not enough.
Host 10:39
Right? And I also, you know, I think some of the information that we're finding out is from the probably the more populated places that have internet access, that are able to get information. I think it's important to say that there are more remote places, or places outside urban areas that I think will take quite some time to find out how truly bad it was, and what, what, what conditions they're really facing there. And I think also it needs to be mentioned this. This feels, this does feel somewhat a little out of place when you're talking in the context of human suffering and urgent human need. But I do think we need to acknowledge that Mandalay being the and upper Burma in general, being the seat of of of where of the Burmese kings, of days of past and of very important Buddhist monuments and other historical places of note that that much of the treasures of Myanmar history and the architecture have also been destroyed. What can you tell us about that?
Jack Myint 11:41
Oh, you're absolutely right. Man les was the last is where our last kingdom was located, and the old palace has been destroyed to some extent. So has the monasteries and the Buddhist temples, as well as mosques, churches that that has happened and and, you know, these are, Mandalay is a city that is at the heart of every Burmese. I mean, it is a city that for whose historical and cultural heritage we are incredibly proud of so in addition to that human suffering and toll, the loss of those invaluable cultural and historical artifacts adds to that pain and suffering, it will take a lot of time and effort to revive and restore those and some might not even be able to be fully restored. That's very sad.
Host 12:45
Yeah, so there really is just kind of one thing on top of another that's being processed, and we also do in just a moment, we'll get into how we and our wider community of listeners can respond proactively to give immediate help, as well as the wider international community and some of those strategies before we get there, I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that, that even amid all of this hardship that people are going through, that that even before this, as many people Know that have been following Myanmar, even in some small way, things have not been good to date, that whether one is talking about the conflict or the collapsed economy or any number of other things that we can throw in there, that that this is just one other, one additional cruel slap for people that have already really been struggling without a lot of support, and with the support that is there be having been taken away recently as well.
Jack Myint 13:49
Most certainly, I mean, you know, as as as you and as I imagine, most of your listeners are already aware there is ongoing armed conflict in Myanmar, emanating and further exacerbated by the military coup of 2021 what initially started out as peaceful protests, have turned into armed resistance nationwide, with local militias teaming up with ethnic armed groups across various states and regions taking up the armed resistance against military control that that has been ongoing. And so this natural disaster adds to that, to that toll that have been taking on Myanmar and its citizens for the last four years, I should say that you know, the the political circumstances and situation aside, right the situation in in Mandalay, Sagan, the capital naypy.in, Shan State, such as cities such as inlay, Yang Shui dongyi And to some small. Extent BA, Gu and Yangon being impacted. The reason that I'm here today, right, so so quickly after the events have taken place, is because one, I wanted to make a humanitarian appeal for my people at a time when it's needed most in a manner that transcends politics. And two, because I want to provide support and shout out to the independent initiative that you through better better Burma is taking on to establish a an endowment and a fundraising through an endowment to support local entities that are taking it upon themselves to go help their fellow citizens, those independent, non official or political entities taking it upon themselves to do this is has been, in many cases, life saving, game Changing for people on the ground, and they are the entities that need and deserve the support most at this time, especially if we're talking at the grassroots level, amid all the political complexities or official barriers to what a formal aid and support process Looks like, the deliberation of that, and the time that would go into the deliberation of that is simply something that people on the ground right now cannot afford. This is a highly time sensitive matter, and for those who care about Myanmar and Myanmar's people getting that much needed aid that I outlined earlier, which includes blood, food, water, survival kits, medical supplies, temporary tents, solar power, batteries for electricity and machine manpower to sort through debris that those key elements right? We simply don't the people simply don't have time to wait through the political deliberations and official lineations of you know how it gets done and where it goes so in the in that regard and respect, the the first responders, in this case, to me, are fellow citizens, and any effort that goes to empowering those to funding those citizens will bear the most effective results at this time.
Host 17:29
And so you're really here trying to deliver this apolitical, strongly humanitarian message that there are lives that are hanging in the balance, and that those that are on the ground are doing everything they can, I mean, and those things include emptying their fridge, bringing a hammer to a collapsed rubble of buildings and and they've, we could say they've more or less exhausted. They're already limited resources in doing all that they can. And I think those listening that that that are not Burmese, but have been to Burma, report back on it being the most generous place they've ever been in the world. I think that is, that is a common refrain you hear from a lot of people. I personally, speaking, I just to give one anecdote. You know, it always amazed me how I could, I could randomly end up at some monastery or some person's house, or even in a business, and there was always an extra plate of food ready to be offered to you. I've never been to a country where that's the case. There was this magically, always a bowl of hot, hot, warm food that was being served to you with this joy and pleasure. Is just this, this giving that was just the spirit that was there, and we see that on the ground, but more is needed to sustain that, and that's where this is part podcast episode, but also part expansive to bringing our greater community into a coalition, to to help in a time of great need, and to to to recognize that the generosity that's happening On the ground by local actors is, is only going so far, and there is a generosity that can be supported with a back end of those that are in a more, more of a place of relative privilege and and support, even in small ways. You know, $5 $10 these. You know, these, these, these amounts matter. There's there's not every little thing is going some distance to be able to help in a profound way. And that part of this part of discussion is really overtly and explicitly addressing that need, in that plea to to provide that support, to be able to get on that ground. And those that are are doing what they can to save these lives that are in the balance, that they have that support as just as quickly as they can get it. And so Jack, I'd like to ask you to speak more about the these efforts that we're talking about and what we're trying to do.
Jack Myint 20:02
Certainly, and I think Joah, you encapsulated incredibly well. You know that is, after all, the Myanmar spirit, and no amount of hardship and chaos can and will take that away from us. And I think anyone who has been to or been affiliated with Myanmar will have known and felt that that spirit which at this time, we're calling on your audience and the broader audience really to to show that same spirit of generosity when the Myanmar people are suffering most. Now I say this, you know, and this call for support and and backing this initiative that you, through your better Burma initiative, are taking on, and that's more at the grassroots level, right? I also want to talk, if you indulge me, at the policy level. I mean, after all, you know, a lot of our a lot of the audience are US based and there, I'm sure, are questions about, what can the United States as a country do to support the people of Myanmar during this hard time? And I have a few ideas well, but first, I should say that earlier today, I was encouraged and appreciative to hear President Trump openly speak on the record that the United States will help Myanmar and its earthquake victims. This is definitely a a positive sign, and we hear His message emulated across senior officials in the USG, including Secretary of State, Marco Rubio first. And so I broke it down into three categories, right? The first one being direct us support. Direct us support in this case, to me, I see as bringing together teams of whatever remains of USAID across the region and within the State Department, to convene the Disaster Assistance Response Teams to assess and provide immediate support to these communities directly. That's one two individual through individual countries, right through allies and partners in the region. India has expressed their intent to support so as Singapore and Malaysia, which are members of ASEAN, so working with allies and partners in the region to complement and collaborate on efforts to get much needed aid out there, utilizing the quad mechanism to provide support, as well as tapping into the humanitarian aid and disaster relief capabilities of The US Indo Pacific Command, which I think could be incredibly useful here. And third option, of course, is through supporting intra national efforts in tackling the situation. As of this morning, I read that the United Nations had allocated $5 million to support earthquake victims, supporting entities like the United Nations and its affiliates, including the International Red Cross, in their efforts. It can be a useful mechanism here and and because this has long been a a pivotal I guess, function within the United States policy towards Myanmar, looking into the ASEAN mechanism to, I believe, can be used for the ASEAN humanitarian assistance initiatives, you know, and Figuring out what regional solutions can be applied to this situation, I want to allude to the smart diplomacy deployed by then Secretary General, Suu N pit Suu during the cycle of Nargis in 08 of getting ASEAN humanitarian support out to the communities that need it most amid the mid similar, but not exactly the same political situation at that time as well, right, which was then dealing with a different military regime known as the state Peace and Development Council. So, so those are, those are three options that that, I think you know, not necessarily mutually exclusive, if done all in tandem, I believe, would be the most effective. But it's an either or situation as well, right? Whichever of those, individually or collectively that can be done by. The United States, I think, will will prove beneficial and and be appreciated by the people of Myanmar.
Host 25:06
So Right? I understand, I understand that you're looking at this, at this crisis, and the possible responses in a very specific way, in that essentially you have two hats on. You're wearing the hat of a Myanmar national with with with close family and friends that are there, and a deep concern for the human element of the urgent need that is that is required. And yet you're also in circles of understanding policy debates and past history and International Relations and foreign policy. And in some ways, we could say, and especially in this particular interest, sometimes these things align pretty well. And in some cases, they there, there's some contrast there. And and so I'd like to invite you to to to really sharpen the edges of the argument you're making to do so by presenting some of the counter arguments that have been in that space of different theories or ideas of and concerns of engagement at this time and where and how you're pushing back against them while under while, you know, wearing these two hats and yet Calling on the, you know, really, really leaning towards that humanitarian and personal need right now at this time.
Jack Myint 26:27
Of course, there is ongoing debates already, Joah in Washington about what us support to those effective communities would look like in a political context, right? You know, who are the entities that should be should the US be dealing with? Which are the entities that are, you know, most aligned with the junta or most aligned with the resistance efforts and so on, so forth. And to that, I, you know, that's expected, and that's going to happen regardless. There, there's also, there's, there are merits on both sides, right? And you know the question of whether the junta can be trusted to deliver aid to those communities, whether they can truly deliver, whether they would not exploit this for their internal political legitimacy and purposes. At the same time, on the other end of the spectrum, it's also whether the resistance forces really have the capability in the affected areas to actually impact real change, right? So that debate is ongoing, and that debate will occur, it is up to the countries that want to support Myanmar, especially in this case, the United States, to do its own evaluation of which would make the most impact for the people on the ground, instead of fixating on the political messaging and the optics of what it would look like later down the line, that's my personal opinion. Look, there will be circumstances either way that can, that would not please everybody, right? But that's, that's to me, right now, is besides the point. What I care about is, are the people on the ground who need it getting the support they need? Are they getting food? Are they getting water? Are they getting blood? Are they getting medicine? That's right now the biggest priority, and quite frankly, I and you know, I might catch flat for this, but I'll say it, there is a special place in hell for those who seek to exploit weaponized this aid or block this aid for political purposes, from getting to those affected communities.
Host 28:38
Thank you. Those are quite powerful, powerful words, to to reflect on, to be able to get your take on and and to to reflect on from, from all of our listeners, as we are situated in different places, but looking at where we engage in, how we understand the present situation, as well as what we can do for it, given our station. And of course, I think the underlying message of what you're saying is, okay, let's, let's look at that bigger picture. Let's be concerned about it. Let's know what's there, where it's not going to disappear, and the the underlying political tensions or overtones are not going to disappear by by not acknowledging them. But let's also stress that again, going back, there's this human element there, and let's not have that focus on these other aspects draw us away from again, lives in the balance and things that can be done here and now to be able to reach out to them.
Jack Myint 29:35
Yes, absolutely. I mean, the suffering is very real. The debts are real, the losses of property and individuals hurt and in in dire need of support are very real and simply because of political complexities, I do not want our people and I. This crisis to be written off as a lost cause. So Joah, if you could give a brief overview to the audience on this, this endowment that you are fundraising for, and how it will support grassroots activities on the ground in correlation to this humanitarian disaster.
Host 30:26
Sure. So to do that, let me first break down what our organization is, because sometimes there is some confusion where it all fits together. It's actually a very simple explanation. Better. Burma is our formal 501, c3, tax exempt nonprofit organization Insight, Myanmar podcast, is one of two missions of better Burma. We have a media advocacy arm and we have a humanitarian arm. These are completely different missions that are a part of this better Burma organization. They operate independently and and that's also where I want to clarify, because sometimes there is confusion on the podcast that the topics that we might speak about with guests inform the kind of humanitarian work we do. And that's absolutely categorically not true. I can say they are. They are run separately, and the humanitarian arm is strictly humanitarian. It is since the coup happened in 2021 we have supported hundreds of projects all throughout Myanmar to marginalized communities on the border as well. We have basically been funded by through individual donations. There are a couple of organizations that give have given us some, some small, modest grants, but for the most part, you know, since 2021 we've had nearly 5000 donors, which is absolutely incredible, giving anywhere from 15 to $100 and it's absolutely remarkable for so many reasons, but one is that, you know, for transparency, we sometimes can't reveal all the details of a humanitarian project for security reasons and and yet, you know, through the work we've done, 5000 donors still have enough confidence in seeing what we can report and what we do that they have continued to give to to be able to support those communities as we go on. So that's some background into how better Burma was formed and and what what projects we've typically supported so this current disaster that's taken place, and this urgent need that's there, as unique as it might be for a massive earthquake, decimating a place of population, it is not unique in the sense of a vulnerable population that is urgently needing some kind of humanitarian relief. That is something we've been doing for years. And we've, we've been, we we've been supporting that kind of work, food water, food water, medicine, shelter, the the basic things that a displaced population needs, and that this is no different than than other humanitarian projects that we have supported. It is the cause is different, the place is different, but the type of activity is not and so and so what? What we are asking for as through this podcast and then connected to our humanitarian side of the mission. We could say this is a rare example of a bridge being built from the podcast conversation directly to the humanitarian project, which we rarely, if ever do is that, is that funds that are donated earmarked towards this disaster relief, this, this urgent humanitarian need that is now present, we will be looking into identifying those humanitarian actors that are on the ground, that are doing Everything they can and trying to help them to to to be able to get those resources, to get more resources, to help those that are in urgent needs and whose lives are at risk. And so that is the fun that we're starting, that we're we're requesting listeners to consider a donation, and that is where it will be going.
Jack Myint 34:19
Excellent. Well, Godspeed, my friend, and thank you for being a true friend of Myanmar. I couldn't stress this enough to all listeners to please support this effort in in making sure that at the grassroots level, these first responders have the the resources that they need to continue to do their work of being good citizens to their fellow citizens who are suffering and at the political policy level, you know, for the United States to either individually get involved through regional allies and partners to get involved, or through UN Red Cross and ASEAN Regional associations in. Governmental organizations to get involved, is my closing message again, thank you for having me here and for your continued interest in and being a committed friend to Myanmar and its people. Thank you.
Host 35:29
Many listeners know that in addition to offering these podcast episodes, we also run a nonprofit, Better Burma, which carries out humanitarian projects across Myanmar, while we regularly post about current needs and proposals. We also have to handle emergency requests at times, often in matters that are quite literally life or death. When these urgent requests come in, funds are often needed within just hours, so there's really no time to conduct targeted fundraisers for these situations. We try and maintain an emergency fund. This is why I'm making the request to please consider specifically helping us to maintain this emergency fund. We want to stress that a donation of literally any amount allows us to respond more flexibly and effectively when disaster strikes. Discover how to donate today by going to insightmyanmar.org/donation.