Transcript: Episode #341: The Unfriendly Skies
Below is the complete transcript for this podcast episode. This transcript was generated using an AI transcription service and has not been reviewed by a human editor. As a result, certain words in the text may not accurately reflect the speaker's actual words. This is especially noticeable when speakers have strong accents, as AI transcription may introduce more errors in interpreting and transcribing their speech. Therefore, it is advisable not to reference this transcript in any article or document without cross-referencing the timestamp to ensure the accuracy of the guest's precise words.
Host 00:50
Before we dive into today's conversation, I'd like to say a brief word about the nature of our long form interviews here at Insight, Myanmar podcast. Simply put, all of our discussions are guest driven. Our discussions go deep into the expertise and perspectives of our guests because it is our belief that when we are able to open up to the experience and voice of others, well, we all learn. So with that, let's sit back and enjoy what follows you. We are here at ANU Burma talking to Nin again. We did a long form interview with her. We recommend listeners to check out. We're checking in with Nin now to give an introduction for the five voices that you're about to hear speaking about the event that they hosted when we see the plane. So Min, thank you for joining us again to introduce this event. Thank you.
Ma Hnin 02:37
Thanks for having me again. This is a different setup than the first one, which is much easier. Thank you for having me, and thanks for letting me speak and elaborate more on the event that we host, which is when we see the playing. We can start it off with, from the name Ashley, how we have come about, to this title of when we see the plane. So it's hosted twice in 2024 one is in Bangkok and one is in Chiang Mai. But prior to that, we've been working this concept since 2023 since ba ziji happened, which is in April, 2023 so since before when we see the plane, there's been always prior to that, there's a few other campaigns and exhibitions that we work on, which is about air strikes in Myanmar. So we want to continue talking about air strikes in Myanmar as air strikes in Myanmar only being double the digit, and it's only been increasing. It hasn't gone down. So how do we talk about air strikes? On the topic of air strikes in Myanmar in Thailand, this is where we have to, we can't be too obvious, which is very we can get in trouble. This is not something that I don't think Thai authorities want us to speak in that particular way. So we have to come up with an alternative narrative, which is when we see the plane, how do as a person in the world, for example, you who are from us, when they see a plane, how do they feel as first when a Burmese person. A Myanmar person, when they see a plane, how do they feel? And also a plane, since we were little, this magical piece of metal that moves around, which is something that we have this kids memory of, when we see a plane, we wave at them. We're trying to chase them like a train, right? And then, as you get older, the plane is somewhere taking you to the beach, the holiday or somewhere you are about to go, to oversee, to study, right? This is most people in the world. That's how they think when we want they see a plane, but not necessarily for some of the Burmese people, especially in the conflict zone, especially now in Myanmar, which you're going to see a lot of it is people when they see, or not Even seeing, when they're hearing the sound of playing, they have to hide thinking that, you know, the airstrikes is coming. So this is where the narrative that the name came about. So the exhibition is, is actually one of the element that we did with this, the name under of this, when we see the plane prior to exhibition, we also had campaigns, white paper campaigns that we co hosted with other strike committees in Myanmar, but more we were supporting the back end element of it as well, but because a new Burma does exhibition. So this is where we elaborate and talk about air strikes at Myanmar, and so in the exhibition, we have about over 20 artists from all over Myanmar, and as well as exile, most of the artists are creative photographers. Because that was another thing. There's a lot of photographers that are on the ground that are covering day two and day out with the news they are on, mostly in Burmese news, not necessarily in the foreign news. And you know, having the photographer, like we call it frontline photographers, they risk their life, and they do so. It's such a great work, that most of their artwork or their pieces are not being out. So that was another concept behind this exhibition. We want to bring that. We want to collaborate with them so we work with the roots, which is the organization that they formed, all the photographers that are kind of like a photographer Association group. Not only that, in the show, you will see a big, giant painting that was actually created by four artists from mess up exactly the same concept that we told them, when we see a play to these artists, like, how do these artists feel when they see a plane as well? And this is what they have elaborated, along with many other different elements in the exhibition. So when we were doing this exhibition, we ended up having 20 Myanmar artists. But when it comes to curating, I decided to bring in Thai curators, because I say this all very often, and also most of our exhibitions are curated by Thai artists, which is another way that we are passing on what's happening in their neighbors, especially one of the photographer work that we show, which was from the airstrike last year in nyawadi, which is very close in a lot of news, a lot of there was news that's in a lot of Thai News Channel, what was happening in the border mess up, and they that's the closest thing that they have. Exp. Experience like people in the border, Thai people have witnessed the 500 pound bomb was dropped in Miao di bringing the two Thai creators curating 20 Myanmar artists' artwork that are about airstrikes. So during the first exhibition that was in Bangkok, they were able to learn more. They were able to elaborate more, and they were able to know why there are so many refugees, why there are so many people and what's really happening on the ground. So that's the other side of the element that I try to bring in, as well as the intention behind why we want to Bangkok to host our first event. So we host the exhibition for two weeks as well as put on a panel discussion, bringing in medic that are on the ground, some of the women for all women union. How is that affecting certain areas, to school, to the hospitals to elaborate more on the topic of the air strikes. And then we did an exhibition in December, when it's about a six month gap from the first song the second and earlier, I'm talking about how airstrikes are not only decreasing, but are increasing. And working with Yang, lit and Elika, they're the research behind and the people who have given us provided the data of how many schools being, you know, destroyed, how many people have been injured? That kind of data we're receiving. And this by the second exhibition, I looked at the data again from the first one, it was double the digit. Yeah, that was a huge difference. But, and this is what the exhibition brings out, right? And most of the research paper or talk, most of these papers are read by only academic, or, you know, researcher only, but we want to bring out these numbers and talking about these data in another way that, like you and me, I'm able to tell you that is, you know how, within the six months, how The airstrike has been doubly increased, as well as we work with another data people and we were trying to also, we wrote it in the exhibition comparing per hour, you know, Per also, in terms of geographically in Chiang Mai, how, how many people has been injured, or how many people has been killed, comparison to the population of Chiang Mai, population which is quite I don't, I don't even know how to describe these things when I am It's tragic, right? And like this is another comparison that I keep doing is that people, when there is an airstrike in Gaza or Lebanon, the whole world knows about it, you know? And then when there is an airstrike, which happens every day in Myanmar. Not many people know about it. And this is where I think, when we see the plane, as in when, like, I always say that within our exhibition is always, how much harder Do you want to look into our exhibition, the more you look into it deeply. This is where we were able to elaborate. And the intention of when we see the plane is to elaborate more about air strikes in Myanmar.
Host 14:33
Okay. So as listeners know, we, in addition to our media and advocacy platform, we also have humanitarian we do a number of humanitarian projects on the ground these days that largely involves IDP camps and the growing numbers of displaced, which are over 3 million right now, and and we got a message from our contact in the IDP about a donation that we gave here, saying that he donated to these children. In the last week, but the girl in red, and I'm looking at a picture here, and the youngest child are no longer with us. They got caught in air strikes. He shared with me photos of their body after the strike. But since it's very graphic violence and sad, I'm not going to share with you, and just for your benefit, and I'll share with you the picture that was was sent. I mean, I feel tears welling up as I'm as I'm seeing this, and it's just, you know, just we're looking at pictures of, you know, 678, year old children. And the air strikes are so severe in these IDP camps that, literally, the pictures that are being taken to send to us to show us the results of the donation that we provided in the camp, and the people happening to be in that picture, the children were killed by air strikes in IDP camps by the time that that picture was then sent to us to show the to verify the donation taking place. And this is not just a case of of shocking, tragic bad luck or coincidence. This is, as you say, that what made me think of this was your comment a moment ago of wanting to talk about, you know, per hour, or the population of Chiang Mai, to put it in human terms, this is something that when you're looking at the frequency of the airstrikes and the numbers that are impacted, it's the percentage of people in your known group or mutual group that are being impacted in this story, just being told, of this picture being shown, it's astronomical, and how to how to portray that to a to those that are living in greater safety or privilege and don't understand the daily terror that's been going on for years. And then when you compound that with, as I'm sure, with you, the stories that you hear of people stepping on land mines, so terror from the sky, terror from the ground, and then terror from ground assaults or mortars or soldiers attacking and so the and this is to say nothing of the collapsed economy that and displacement that makes life difficult on top of that. So you know, the terrors and the danger and the death and the devastation, they are really coming in all directions from all sides, and it's ongoing for years and years this is taking place. This exhibit that that you're showcasing, and this particular storytelling that you're doing is focused on just one of those, a particularly devastating one and a particularly frustrating one, because it's, you know, there are ways to stop or to limit these airstrikes from happening, with sanctions on jet fuels. And you know, some of this is happening, and there's evidence that some of this has even taken place in Thai airspace, even outside sovereign country and territory. So, you know, the just the devastation that an ordinary civilian population is going through is just absolutely abominable, yeah,
Ma Hnin 17:57
and also another thing, which I didn't, I wanted to add in the exhibition, is we, you know, many people say that, Oh, because there is an active war zone. That's why the air strikes is happening. And this is something that we want to clearly talk to people that Myanmar military is targeting, school, hospital, churches, bogotas. These are, you know, before we sit down, we talk about Sridhar, Goenka, how being it's a communal space. This is a split a place that where, comparison to we don't go to cafe, Corner Cafe or big Starbucks. We go to pagodas. This is where our traditional and this is where most of the communities gather. And, you know, it's a place and same as school escape, the same as churches and Myanmar military is particularly targeting these, especially the vulnerable civilians. And this is what we wanted to elaborate more. And also, not only Yes, we have to talk about what's happening, which is showcasing these photos and artwork and and and talking about how you know they are particularly harming human civilian, especially the school, the kids you know, and and at the same time, we, we work with, you know, such as young as well as BMC blood money campaign, which they focus on sanctions. We, we don't focus on it, but we, we try to work with them. And from then on. We also learn about how much money are they spending, how much Myanmar military is spending to buy jet fuel. Also, we learned that, you know, Alex, our friend who created this 500 pound one to one scale prototype when he was looking into the research of 500 pound bomb, which, most of the places that has been bombed right now is used 500 pound bomb. And so we looked into it more. You know, it started from Vietnam War, and then American was bombing to Vietnam, and then, from then on, you know, Russia, from then on, China, and then how it's being sold. But then we learned that Myanmar military is making this 500 ba pound bomb in Myanmar, they're not even buying, and what they have to buy is the jet fuel, you know, and we continue wanting to talking about, like, like, there is Moe sanction was happened Last year or, I'm not sure it was the year before, but it didn't stop. You know, it's continuing, and that I can't continue saying this enough. It's like when I go to these various different conferences and they're talking about, how can we help? How can international community can help. They can help in this stopping, this jet fuel sanction and stop like, you know, anywhere, because without the fuel, they can't fly. Even if they make the bomb inside the Myanmar, they can't fly to get to bomb this school and hospitals. And this is something that even though someone like who worked in this area, we don't know this because this is all academic, or this is all you know, big NGOs and their conversation only lead to their own people, nothing towards the civilian you know? And I think this is where we come in. Well, this
Host 22:24
is particularly where you come in, you meaning a new Burma. Because, as we talked about in our long form conversation in the previous episode, you're engaging in a new type of storytelling. I mean, literally, it's called a new Burma. And you're there. Is a certain style of storytelling that we can look at the traditional media, or the traditional human rights organizations or the academics, that since 88 has really been and not to knock these groups or what they do, because they're the only ones who do it, and it's very important. And they really started all of this in the way that they speak to each other and try to speak to the world, but it is a form of speech and of talking and a community that is has not really changed much since in the number of previous decades, and what you're doing with the new Burma, in these exhibits that these these exhibitions that You're putting on and how you're trying to reach people, and how you're trying to give them the information. You are going about storytelling in a very different way at this time, which is very needed and very unique in what I see of all the other other platforms and ways that this message is trying to get out, you're going about it in truly a unique and different way that's so needed at this time. And so I think that segues into the events that you actually did in Chiang Mai and Bangkok, and you've talked a bit about the data and the content that you were working with, and the analysts that were feeding you information, and the things that you were trying to express, the sanctions that you mentioned just now that you want to tell the international community over and again, but if we can look now at the medium, so it's not you're not just looking at the content that you want to share, but the way in which you're sharing it. And so what were you trying to do in the Bangkok and Chiang Mai events, and did you learn something in Bangkok that you then applied in Chiang Mai to do slightly differently? What were you doing with the medium to to to touch upon the different sense modalities and human experience and emotion and psychology that you that was trying to get through to people with this content in a different way with storytelling than maybe they were experiencing before.
Ma Hnin 24:33
Uh, yeah. I mean, Bangkok audience and Chiang Mai audience is completely different. You know, Bangkok is much like we, we, we put an exhibition. The exhibitions place is only 500 meter away from Myanmar embassy. Somehow it happened to be deliberate, but also we didn't internship. But we like it, the fact that it's and but we. So that we want to do it around embassy areas and as well as, the reason why we wanted to go to Bangkok is we want to reach to embassy. We want to reach to the schools. We want to reach to academic. Yes, embassy people, all these various different kind of and why we did a panel discussion at fcct. So this is something, you know, with such as fcct, they already have a international journalist that they're reaching to, as well as or a lot of NGOs, you know, the big people live in Bangkok. So that was our intention, and as well as also some of the activists that are in Bangkok. So comparison to when we did it in Chiang Mai is more of we get a lot of chi my university students, we get a lot of creative community coming to see this, as well as the expat community that who lives in Chiang Mai, like they will definitely question why so many Burmese people live in Thailand, right? So? And also, like, I keep saying this, like, most people don't know what's really happening to their neighbor, you know? And I think for and another thing is, like, as much as the topic itself is so harsh, which is about air strikes, you know that the pictures we're showing, we really try to reduce as what do you think about airstrike? There's people dying, right? So, yes, how do we talk about this insane strategy tragedy when we are especially showing visually, but not in that I say this in the last podcast as well, not in that bloody way. You know, we, and also, I don't want to, we don't want to, yes, we are the victim, but we don't want to victimize in that way. And we, from last year, we came up with this narrative that when we do this kind of work, we want to have this empathy driven. We want to talk about this topic, not to give a knowledge, but to your heart, you know. So then you would talk about it in your conversation, in your community, and that's what's more important for us when we are doing that's great, and when asking the question is, I think that's the new way that we want to continue and we have been doing so we put it empathy driven advocacy.
Host 28:16
And you're also, I see what you're doing too, when you talk about how, yes, you are the victims, but you don't want to be victimized. That seems to me a refusal to remove your agency from it, and that the one of the definitions of being a victim and identifying as a victim is a lack of agency. Things are being done to you, and all you could do is try to complain and get sympathy and get support, but there's no agency in that. And it seems like you're really approaching this with a refusal to want to remove the humanity and agency even as you're being terrorized. But by keeping that agency there's a certain you're, you're you're also dismissing the possibility of pity arising in people, which is never really good for either side, and encouraging a sense of solidarity and shared humanity and common struggle, because you're keeping that, that agency and humanity firmly in place.
Ma Hnin 29:09
Yeah, definitely, and, and we, we continuing, you know, when we see the plane is one of the way that we talk about air strikes in Myanmar, like in March, we will have an exhibition in Bangkok, the the topic and the direction that we're taught doing. The whole exhibition is highlighting education sector in Myanmar. But one of the story is, well, that the story itself is a CDM teachers who are teaching on the ground. But one of the teacher, he lost his wife and his kids due to air strikes. That Air Strike two IDP camp, you know? So. So it's really, it's almost you can't get away from this air strike. Air Strike is something that is really helpless in, in to to a lot of people, and especially kids. And because of that, like most kids are, I mean, you probably see it like some people, some kids, are studying in a case, you know, and like, I'm talking to humanitarian groups that are on the ground, they are creating an environment, such as a place digging up in the ground so they can create that safe environment to teach, where kids can learn, like we're going to that and yet, how this is not being internationally or like, consistently talking about it's crazy In any way, even like it's somehow also another thing, that another thing is be in, like, not talking about air strikes in Myanmar becoming so normal.
Host 31:11
Yeah, like it's part of the culture or something.
Ma Hnin 31:14
Yeah, exactly. It's like, it's part of it. It's a, you know, like, and I know that international community keeps saying that it's Civil War, right? But yes, even if it's a civil war that look at this airstrike that is really happening towards civilian and somehow this topic shouldn't talk about it on and even talking about it is so normal, normal that which I'm like, so frustrated every day. And even though, like someone like me, who doesn't have the first hand experience of the air strike, but I have a second trauma, second hand trauma, watching these footages and working these footages and and doing these things and and yet again, like I mentioned, there's so little news or so little conversation about air strikes in Myanmar.
Host 32:17
Well, I thank you so much for taking the time to introduce this episode. I do want to tell listeners that the five voices that are coming these conversations were recorded actually on the opening launch of the event. Nin and I are talking now after the event has come and gone, so the sound and the environment is a bit calmer, but in the five voices that follow, I want to alert listeners that there is a lot of background noise from the excitement of all the people the events. Sometimes you hear clapping or cheering or voices in the background. So it's it's a bit unusual in terms of our normal podcast, but we hope that it brings listeners it also into that dynamic of what that space of opening night was when it was launched, before we move in and transition into those five voices that our listeners will hear. Is there any last words you'd like to give to our audience to help frame the event and some of the conversations
Ma Hnin 33:15
that are coming up? So the I'm actually looking forward to the five voices as well what they spoke that night, and yes, the background noise, we counted as nearly 100 people who attended, which is very, very also, I'm surprised, because you know, like I always say this, talking about air strikes in Myanmar, and for an exhibition, you have 100 people attending, which is such a incredible turnout and and also every single one of the people that fight people, they came together because another thing is that that empathy driven right, they want to they want to be involved. They want to help out, especially like Alex, he came to Bangkok event, and he said to me, you know you, you are showing all the artwork. That is why, what happened when the air strike come that you missing a piece? Where's the strike? Where's this bomb that disappears? Yes, so this is where he came about. And this is from that already is we are able to bring on someone and who, who wants to learn about it, who wants to help and and I think, like when I say help, as in, not only you have to be involved, but also wanting to know more is already helping. Wanting to if you are, if you're wanting to know more, that means you want to speak about it, right? You want to talk about. Myanmar and and I always say this news about Myanmar in anywhere is almost nothing, nowhere to be seen, especially in Australia, like you know you might see. You might hear about Myanmar three times a year. And as for the international community who are listening to these podcasts, I think talking about air strikes in Myanmar is really important. And not only airstrike, but attention to Myanmar is very important.
Person from A New Burma 36:27
Okay, good evening. Then I am now working on a new Burma organization. We are a very tiny organization, and currently, today, we are hosting this event when we see the plane exhibition. Actually, this is not the first exhibition. This is the second exhibition of the series. The first one happened in May 2024, and we had the exhibition at Bangkok, but now in Chiang Mai, at our space, we are doing it. Yes, this is a second exhibition. So very brief storyline behind the narrative, you can say behind the exhibition is like, it's like, it's the planes. So everyone is very, very familiar with the planes, and since very, our very own childhood, like, when we look at the plane and we like, we kind of be happy. It's like, oh, there's a plane, something like that. And we kind of think about going abroad, studying, and we sometimes think about, I don't know, vacation travel, something like this very positive, very bright and very hopeful message the planes are giving us. But after the coup, after the after suffering, a lot of air strikes, our people, the civilian people, the message, the narrative, been changing. So right now, in in the rural part, in the major crisis part of Myanmar, if you ask a little child, a very young kid, how do you feel about when you How do you feel when you see the plane, and the whole narrative is totally upside down, so we want to showcase that. And even I am from, personally, I'm from Myanmar, I'm not from the major crisis area. So even for me, that impact is huge. And and thinking about little kids suffering the major airstrikes in those area, how we went to how they how they gonna feel about it, something like that. So we want to show the different perspective of the feeling, the narrative coming out of when we see the planes. So this is, this is kind of like the foundation effect of the of the exhibitions that we have in so. So here in this exhibition, we have majority, mostly, we have photograph photographs. So from the from the different areas of Myanmar, from different airstrike effects, we have photograph and we have paintings. We have documentary, we have animations. And before earlier this year we also did when we see the plane, white paper playing campaign also. So so we this is like a collective artwork, everything we're gonna be showcasing during this exhibition. Yeah,
Host 39:12
yeah, that's, that's quite a lot. You've been putting together this exhibition, both here in Bangkok, so you've been very close to the material and to understanding. And so I wonder if you can give our listeners a sense of from the people that you've talked to, the adults, the elderly, the children, if you can relay some of the stories you've heard of what is it? What is it like to have an air strike hit next to you, or where you're at, and then what is it like to hold the fear every time you see those planes in the sky?
Person from A New Burma 39:49
So okay, I would just point out there. There are there. All of them are not very all of the interviews and documentaries and articles and that we have, all of them. The narrative of when we see the plane is definitely not great, of course. It's very tragic and very, very sad and upsetting, of course. But one thing that kind of sticks to my mind is there is a video that we received from the area that suffered from air strike. But it was a school. It was a primary school, and the air strike attack on that village and the primary school, the kids are studying. When that happened, and a lot of kids would die during the event, and I saw a little video. It's like nine years old kid, eight years seven years around that age group. They are writing. It's like wishes for their decreased disease. I don't know the friends, other little kids who've been killed, who died during the attack, and they're just writing it. And for them, if you look at their face, they know it, and at the same time, they don't know it. When I say they know it because they know it because they've been grew up almost in this kind of crisis, like air strike, attack, like hiding, go out, burning their houses. Those kind of things are like, almost day to day to their life and this very sad thing to know. And at the same time, they don't know it. When I say it, they haven't been outside of that little world. So like, even though they're suffering and they can't even compare with another thing, you know, it's like, this is bad, and this is all we know. And that is very, very sad. Yeah, I think that would be something that stick with me and for them, is sad, but they don't know how to compare it. I think that will be, that will be sad. I don't know.
Host 41:48
One wonders when this is all over, eventually, what it's going to take to overcome that trauma.
Person from A New Burma 41:55
I mean, well, if you use the word trauma, we all are healing in our kind of personal traumas anyway, but even that kind of personal trauma is really hard to heal. This is our personal experience, but for the little kids with those kind of war related huge trauma, I don't know. I don't know all i All I know is definitely not easy, and definitely should address ASAP. From
Host 42:29
some of the guests that we've had on our podcast that have spoken about who have been in airstrikes or around airstrikes, the way they describe it is this feeling of helplessness, this almost like fury, that there's, there's nothing you can, you can really do to adequately protect yourself or fight back, or it's this, this menace coming from the sky that's you get a warning of a terrifying sound, and then you have no idea when or how it's going to fall. So it's this combination of helplessness and blind fury and and randomness in terms of where the devastation comes.
Person from A New Burma 43:02
Yeah, yeah. Also numbness. Sometimes they've been, you know, happening it too much and too frequently, it's like numb. We don't even care. And if you look at one of the photos that we've exerted, he is the owner of the pig farm, and the air strike literally happened, like a few meters away for him, and he got all the all the bruises and all the injuries, but he refused to get any aid from the first eight members, and he refused to leave the house, like in the end of the day. This is my house in the end of the day. Who gonna feed my pig? So that kind of numbness they are having it so it could be hopelessness, or if we kind of see it in a different perspective, it could be hopeful, or it is he too, is his feeling gone numb? We don't really know, you
Host 43:55
know. And it also reminds me, we've done some episodes as well with landmine experts and with the land mines you talk about also the same thing, the randomness, the numbness, the shock, the terror. And so it strikes me when you look at Myanmar as a country that's being ravaged by land mines. It's one of the most contaminated countries in the world, now with landmines, and then also has airstrikes on top of that. It's like from below, and from above, you have random, unpredictable, horrifying violence in both directions. I can't even imagine what this must be like.
Person from A New Burma 44:29
Yeah, we stand on the ground and we live under the sky, and the attacks are coming from both ways. Yeah, it is, it is tragic. Yeah, one thing that is very kind of like distinctive about them, for me, personally, about military is they use fear as a weapon, and they've been ruling, trying to rule us. They've been ruling it centuries, ages and years ago, fear is fear was very, very successful with. The attack yet, and during this revolution, I think they still think fear is they can stay use fear as the biggest threat to the civilians. And you know, as a human being, we are scared of death, of course, as a living human being, and naturally they might think fear is fear of death is something they can use against us. Not only they, I think they want to threaten us with the death threatening to our own life. And they might kind of found out didn't really work that way. And then they kind of threaten us, like, it's like a little movie, kind of villain versus hero kind of thing, right? Okay, you don't, you don't scare to death. You don't scare off death. Okay, we will kill someone up if you if, if that threatened to you, something like that. I think that's another way, yeah, or, or in another version, you can also think like, okay, in order to conquire s, they might think maybe they need to kill us all.
Host 46:13
And is that fear working?
Person from A New Burma 46:17
It was, I think, in our very, very long terms, long times ago, previous like our previous generations time, because there were no clear vision about technology information, whether they are right or wrong. But now fear is not that effective to us. I think, of course, we have here. We stay human being. We can stay feel it, but we learn, we've learned how to live with that, how to stay, keep fighting with even though we still have fear. So yeah, we still have the fear, but we learn how to live with it.
Host 46:57
I guess, you know, I think the most obvious historical parallel would be World War Two and the Blitz. And this is when the Germans, the Nazis, were trying to bomb London into fear and oblivion. And famously, historically in World War Two, the relentless bombing of London just made the English more and more resolute to defeat the Germans. It actually had the opposite effect. Instead of making them afraid and wanting England to end the war and to live without the bombs, it actually made them angrier and wanting England to pursue the war and to really very definitively defeat the Nazis. And so it seems, one is always careful to make historical comparisons, but it see, it does seem like in Myanmar's tragic history, there has been this suppression of brutal violence that has resulted in fear, which has then kept people down and has just the absolute brutal and horrifying force the military uses has has worked in some way previously, but it does feel this time that it's not quite having the same effect, and yet they don't seem to have any other tool to know how to use. Yeah.
Person from A New Burma 48:08
And also, the generations are changing, right? So the generation changing, technology knowledge is changing. Younger generations are way smarter than us. I mean, it's so astonishing.
Host 48:23
So, but, yeah, how so I think so, in what way?
Person from A New Burma 48:27
So in a resilient way, I guess, because, like, I'm one of the guilty member in this kind of humble society, I think, and I was one of the, one of the many who felt scared, and just hide it away. I just hide away and I feel guilty at the same time looking at like way younger than me, way kind of like they're just fighting in front of us. And as I don't know someone in our society, right? It's like in our culture, older people need to protect the younger ones, and we're just hiding away, and they're fighting for us, for the whole nation, for the freedom, for the human rights. So yeah, I think they're brilliant. Yeah.
Host 49:15
Thank you for sharing that, that kind of vulnerability and and what it was like to go through this, through this crisis. And so as you were in your words, as you were hiding away, feeling guilty watching the younger generation risk their lives, what did that do for you? How what changes did that make for you, and how you wanted to engage
Person from A New Burma 49:37
Well, for me personally, was was was I needed to get out. I mean, like I was in my, in my previous life. I mean, not previous life. I mean in a few years ago, in the little bubble I call life, and I call normal, and I just, I just at one point, just had to escape it. Is too fake, and once I escape it, and once I enjoy and once I see the story, once I hear the stories, it kind of gave me strength, and it kind of helped me transition little by little, to be able to pursue whatever I want to do in this revolution.
Host 50:16
Right now, I want to talk for just a moment about the style of presentation and exhibition you have, because it's really a shame that our listeners aren't able to enter into just how three dimensional and dynamic and all the different modalities that are being used. And so I wonder if you can speak to the methodology of yourself and your colleagues in the new Burma and thinking about, Okay, we have this horrifying reality, and we want to bring this in. We want to make people feel it in a way other than a presentation or just a a written materials or even a video. We want it to be coming out through all these different sense stores in different ways. And so you here in Chiang Mai as well as in Bangkok, you created a space. You cultivated a space in a very careful and dynamic way, very unusual too, to give a more visceral feeling of actually what this experience of airstrikes is. So walk us through this process and what it looks like.
Person from A New Burma 51:10
Yeah. So as an organization, who, which, which focus on the artistic movement, we call it like a student resistant kind of, kind of activities we have the advantage of like expression, I think, in order to like spread the word, storytelling are very, very important. And it's been very, very useful in many aspect of whatever industry it is. So in our revolution, in our kind of like resistance effect, we want to use storytelling. So okay, imagine we are going to tell you a story, and it doesn't it is not only spoken word, it is gesture. So we have performances, kind of you can see, and we can use other senses. You can hear, because we will use the sound effect, you can literally hear, like, very, very similar to what kind of noise you can hear when you have the a strike, that kind of noise, like the sound effect. So that's the second sense. You can see, you can hear, you can feel it. I mean, like even so this space we the second, how do I say the first floor? We enclose the whole space so that we want you to feel trapped, because that was exactly what they've been feeling in their actual space. We are not like bringing identical but we're bringing the essence, and we're trying to make it as much as we can. So in terms of storytelling, what I'm trying to say that our organization use a lot of senses because we are communicating human to human, right? So in that way, I think, I think, personally, I really like that strategy. Also. It's like, it's noises, songs, visuals and touch. You can touch it. Sometimes we even bring out some of the residue, kind of parts of the bone and stuff. And we so as one of the highlight of today's events is we have, like, one of them, ratio of a 500 pound bone, which is like, I've even, for me, I've never seen it in my entire life. And we've been talking about air strike, air strike. But what kind of boom do they use? What kind of, what is a bomb look like? We cannot see. We cannot touch. Here. You can touch, you can see. You can compare the size of it, the effect of something like that. So that kind of strategies that we use, that kind of, I think ideas, that's the way we curate the exhibition. I think, yeah, and I think that is very touchy and very understandable as a human being, because this is very traumatizing puppet. And we don't want to. Another thing is we don't want to, how do I say victimize? We don't want to do that. We want to show how we are standing strong, how we are resilient. And at the same time, why do we have to resilient because of those? And so what are those? So something like that's kind of storytelling we use here.
Host 54:18
And it's been so hard to try to break through into the media space, to inform and engage people about what is now entering the fourth year of the conflict in Myanmar. So what kind of responses are you getting from people that are walking through these exhibitions?
Person from A New Burma 54:35
Well, it's very overwhelming, folks. It's a lot of it's a lot of a lot of ideas and a lot of figures, of course. And one thing is, is very new to the to the political kind of activist kind of organization to bring out as like very artistic organization, is very, very new because, and you can see a lot of research, a lot of. Numbers, but it's really, really hard to see the artistic side of it. So of course, we're very unusual, and for people, they kind of like curious. To us, they're curious like, what kind of style that they're bringing out. Why are they, why are there sounds so amplifying in the in the surrounding in the surrounding organization, our voices spread so much. How are they doing it? People curious. So every, every exhibition we are having, like more and more participants, and also we have some kind of criticisms that we have, which is very, very good for us, because we need to adapt between very artistic is very free, and political is a little bit strict fact. And we have to be balanced, and we have to be flexible between that two things. So we are accepting a lot of criticism, which is very nice, I think, yeah, oh, if you're in Chiang Mai around the exhibition time, I mean, come and join us, or we will be having many, many exhibitions in the future, and we'll be having annual exhibitions in the future also. So whenever you see a new bomber in your area, come and join our exhibition. Thank you for having us. I know we can.
Speaker 3 56:22
I'm from United, and yeah, for like, the military has been created the air strike, send the coup, and it's targeted mainly, rather than targeting the COVID, then is mainly targeted on the civilian Yeah, and also the as well, has been nearly developed after the launch of the operation, 1027, and significantly after the phase two is even targeted The town living residing the civilian captured by the am revolutionary group. Yeah, for the photo, airstrike. Yeah. The military use, like the jet fighter, and also, sometimes they use the online seven helicopter, like those kind of team. Sometimes the revolutionary group claim that they use the chemical during the human engagement as a reinforcement attack for 7pm I have our board review the AGs data, like the of the civilian injury of civilian and also the data, like the destruction of the false beta school and school and religious media, those kind of those. And also, since the coup, extra has been observed all region across the country, except Yangon and ya already other region has been experienced airstrike.
Host 58:30
Is there any? Yeah, I think one of the questions that listeners have is, why is the military bombing its own people, and as it's bombing its own people, why is it bombing schools and monasteries and IDP camps? Are they are these bombs that are intentionally meant to hit these very innocent and defenseless people? Or is it just that they're just bombing everything and not paying attention? Or what is the reason that you give as to why the military is continuously bombing its own people.
Speaker 3 59:03
Yeah, I think even helping the young military is like they want the civilian to fear, to be feared of, to be fear of them like because sometimes it's they intentionally target the civilian. No, not like, just moment, everything they intentionally target like you. You may know like and about the one that happened in park and change, yep, those kind of thing. They are high causality of the civilian. They intentionally target, intentionally target the civilian. So they, the thing is, they want civilian to be fear of that. And they were not going through the area with fear.
Host 59:42
Right? Do you have statistics on approximately how many air strikes per day they're committing on civilians?
Speaker 3 59:49
Our people have the status airstrike another party, approximately seven to eight party. And also, like in syna COVID, the military has connected and. I will four days out of one ton in and three and one ton in 399, days. I guess they have conducted the airstrikes in there every day consecutively, yeah, in the early everyday, like almost over 80 persons. Yeah, I know that,
Host 1:00:16
Right. And you mentioned a bit about the the planes that they're flying. I wonder if you can talk about the type of missiles and arms that are being used on the people?
Speaker 3 1:00:30
Yeah, the most common one that usually mentioned in the media is like five pounding pound foam, because it's very big one, and sometimes they remain. They hit the ground without exploding. So they have the remnant of those kind of bone. So they claim that. And sometimes they claim the military use their chemical weapon, because there's some revolutionary foods, experience dizziness and vomiting. So they claim like that. They use that chemical bone like this. And as far as I remember, maybe in Kni or kya, they also claim that the ministry use their bone once they use their bone. But we don't have any evidence of that yet.
Host 1:01:18
And so for a bomb of this size. I think most of our listeners have no experience being in conflict zones or war zones, and so it's hard for us to hard for many, to understand a bomb of this many pounds or this many tons. What that actually means in real terms? Is there any way you can describe what to give an impression of a bomb of this size hitting your village or your town. Can you describe what kind of impact that makes? What it feels like?
Speaker 3 1:01:47
Yeah, they are devastating. As you know, sometimes they targeted the school, even one children are attending there. So there are like, follow ups of min significant death generated many significant deaths, and also the injury, and also sometimes, like, they have to, like force relocation. They have to go, they have to go and stay live in another place like this. So I, I don't want to say, but there are many impact embed in many impacts support by the people due to the air strike, because for the like military column, when someone's more like revolutionary group Moe knew the information, they tell the ability just to relocate in advance. So that kind of a little bit we we can have project measure for those kind of the depth, but for airstrike, there's no project measure and color the funds those things, yep. So the most affected one is the airstrike for the civilian.
Host 1:03:01
Right now, does your organization do any research into what countries are, are are supporting the Myanmar military to be able to keep bombing its own people? Have you looked into who's complicit with that?
Speaker 3 1:03:19
Yes, for that one, we didn't do completely for who is supporting the military, like blood money campaign. Those this campaign are also to cut the jet fuel. Suppose supplying to the military general so we provide the data for their camping like like this that we haven't done it explicit before they who are supplying the industry yet.
Host 1:03:44
Yeah, and would you say, as the conflict has gone on, you referenced this number. I can't remember what the number was. I think 1300 consecutive days where there were air strikes. Are you seeing the number of air strikes and devastation of air strikes getting worse over time, or staying consistent. Or how would you describe that?
Speaker 3 1:04:05
I might say like they air strike has been increased significantly, like after the operation, 1027, because they have lost their loss, they have lost large amount of territory, so they only they can rely on is the area campaign. So the military increase their area campaign, not only targeting the commandant, but also the CBN. So since maybe like, although by 2023, the SBA has double, nearly double. And also you might see like that the military event connected the airstrike with the larger town in northern Qian state. Yes, you see there are civilians living there, and the military targeted that one. So the airstrike has increased, significantly increased.
Host 1:04:56
Yeah. What are the reasons you think for that?
Speaker 3 1:04:58
Yeah, for. A already, yes is relatively like no conflict, yet there's no common engagement, or those Kyaw thing Yes, area is like very like, no conflict. Area like, but also for Yangon, is a key like the capital of Myanmar, and key area and highly populated, if they do, ska, there will be light mesh port already higher than other region.
Host 1:05:27
Yeah, as the momentum starts to further, bring the resistance, and the Myanmar military is fighting on the losing end of that. Do you see air strikes on Yangon or the outskirts of Yangon as any possibility going forward.
Speaker 3 1:05:41
Not yet, yeah, because even if you go the asteroid, the military connected asteroid, but it happened at the mountainous area, so, like a so I think for Yangon, there is no mountainous area like that. And also the event that Oscar is highly populated, so I'm not sure the military will conduct as far thing. But if, if it's bad, there will be, like, very high causality, I guess, for the data. Yes, we have published the monthly review on the conflict data, including the attack targeted by targeted targeting the civilian. Yeah, by looking at this data, them, high culturality or civilian is generated by the cause, by the military airs. So it is an alarming stage to that military is targeting the civilian with a with, like a jet fighter. And am I? Am I something helicopter like so the banning the jet figure is a massive thing to do. Yep, okay, yeah. I'm Alex from Germany originally, but living since over 15 years in Southeast Asia. Myanmar in Thailand, yeah, well, I know the curator, and when I, when I saw the exhibition, the first exhibition in Bangkok, of course, I was shocked again. I mean, I know what's going on in Myanmar, but yeah, it just shocks me every time, actually, what's what's happening there. So, yeah, then we thought about, like I told him, basically, let's want to do something. I feel so helpless. Basically, since after the coup, I feel very helpless. So we thought about and got them the idea that we that it might be fun to create a bomb, to recreate, like, the original size, so that people can actually see it and touch it.
Host 1:08:07
So you mentioned going to the exhibit first in Bangkok and being shocked and horrified, even though you had an understanding of what was going on. What about the exhibition in Bangkok really spoke to you in a way that brought out those, those feelings and emotions.
Speaker 3 1:08:22
Now the picture, or the big banner of a smoke column and the paint the pictures also very much somehow caught me where people are in the makeshift underground bunkers, basically, and I try to imagine myself, how must it be and such to be in such a situation.
Host 1:08:48
Right? So then walk us through your process in recreating a replica of one of the actual bombs that fall on the people.
Speaker 3 1:08:56
BecauseI wanted to create something that looks as close to the original as possible. So after the research, I found that it's mostly not possible to tell which pump was used logically. But then I found through some connections, basically, that there's confirmed, confirmed information that the KB 500 was used on the pacigi attack. And then I thought, okay, that's that's going to be my, my, my bomb. And then I tried to find construction plans, obviously, not so easy to find in the internet. So I just had three basic measurements, length, diameter, and then photos.
Host 1:09:40
And describe kind of the emotional impact, or feeling of what it was like artistically to create a weapon of destruction that's so navigating and devastating in real life.
Speaker 3 1:09:52
First it was a bit difficult to get into the topic, of course, and to also, like emotionally, also a bit. Not, I wouldn't say challenging, but it was just difficult. And I had to question myself, what am I actually doing right now? Is it a good idea or not? But then the more and more, and then we basically developed the idea further, the more confident I was that it's actually it's a good idea and it can be good and then the building process was physically quite hard, but it was actually also very joyful, because it's very specific form and the symmetries of it and all this makes it for from the building perspective, quite interesting.
Host 1:10:35
And then what was the feeling when it was done and you saw your finished work?
Speaker 3 1:10:40
Yeah, I realized, then when I was nearly done, that it was basically the end of the four and a half month building COVID Part time. And, yeah, it was a bit sad in a way, but because I knew, Okay, this is now I'm gonna finish. But actually not so sad, because I'm happy about the result. I think it's, it's the best that I ever did. It's my first fiberglass Styrofoam project. So I learned a lot of new techniques, techniques, and then it was very, very full process that first so lonely and solitary working on it. It calculated then, and basically, once it was getting ready to actually, could start on working with the interactive mess, the camera, the display, these were other artists and curators who also started working on it. And this process of that, it's actually now coming alive, and I send it out, and now I'm done, and I hope it will reach many people, but yeah, for a peaceful message.
Host 1:11:49
Right? And why? As an artist, why did you think it was valuable to have a replica of how this weapon of destruction actually looked?
Speaker 3 1:12:03
One thought that I had during the exhibition in Bangkok was like, I saw the smoke columns and basically all these pictures of destruction and the art installations everything. And there was also one installation of a small of a bamboo hut. And then I thought about this like, I know Myanmar very well, and I've been to many small villages with bamboo huts and stuff, and it's just shocked me again. And I thought like, how could anybody get an idea to actually throw such a thing onto somebody else? And then, yeah, through that, somehow the idea developed.
Host 1:12:44
Yeah,right. And, you know, one of the amazing things about this exhibit, and exhibits like this is it's it's not just disseminating information. It is disseminating information. That's an important part of it, but it's doing it through this interactive, artistic, multi modality kind of way to bring the reality of it to you in in an unusual and dynamic way. So how would you describe what the role is of art at this time, and artistic performance and expression in trying to bring this reality other than just pure facts and details and presentations and reports?
Speaker 3 1:13:22
If think that's a very interesting question, and it's the core of it. I think it's for the understanding. So just the figures, the sheer data of it, like 525, kilogram, you have it in different versions, cluster bomb and vacuum bomb version and so on. We know all these kind of facts, also from the news, from the TV. We know these pictures, also not from Lebanon and Gaza. Basically, you can actually see kind of those bombs, like why they are approaching the building, excluding, I just, I wanted to somehow get into that. And I think art is actually, or at least for me, the best way to find a to find a connection to such a difficult topic.
Host 1:14:10
What do you want people to feel or take away that that experience this?
Speaker 3 1:14:15
Of course, I want them to create more awareness for the topic itself. But I would want, or would like people in general, to Yeah, reflect on such weapons, the usage in general of such weapons, yeah. And what maybe everybody else could also do in order to Yeah, move in a direction of a world where we don't use stuff like that. I would say my biggest hope at the moment is that the situation in Myanmar changes very quickly, and that this terror is over soon. And in the meantime, I hope that these great, young, talented artists from new Burma. And Thai curators and artists and everybody that I met here that actually brought me so much joy during the project, yeah, that they thrive further and succeed. And succeed is difficult, but I think they succeed already in what they are doing with the art and the message that they are delivering and the passion that they prefer.
Syew 1:15:46
My name is San Syew city junta at home. And it's like, actually, I have been a film student before, and now it's like, I become the video artist or media artist, multimedia designer, whatever. Yeah, it's like something is like, my fame study is like a digital before, and I try to, like more physical stuff and installation. And then I just moved from Bangkok, New Zealand, like a year ago, and I made with Kyaw city as a part of tumor lab. Tumor lab is like multimedia designer, like we like multimedia artists and multi disciplinary, and we focus on culture human, but we use the media interactive or design and art to like, make it together and speak for the speak for what we like. Yeah, and I have met many like years ago. We have working on the level of coming home project I have, I have them like, have them do the like, not that organized, but like, as a part of so to make things happen. And then we were together, like, maybe it is three or 4/3, or fourth project that we have learned together, yeah and yeah. For the last time in Bangkok, I feel that talking about when we see the pain is like we we try to rebuild the hurt, the pain, the loss, the gift from the aspect and and that time, because we are In Bangkok, most of Bangkok people, they are like, it's this my Analyt that Bangkok. But then they are like, not that well known about what happened in Myanmar, so it's like building trauma and try to make audience empathy to Burmese is like the thing that I want to do in Bangkok. So most part of the show is like dark and give and loss. But this time in Chiang Mai, I think audience Chiang Mai hog is different. So most of people who attend in Chiang Mai we analyze that there will be a Burmese who like distant from their hometown. So this time in the end of the show, we want people to feel like there is a hope, there is solidarity and recidience, like making like hope to Burmese people that I don't want To make a Thomas again, something like that. So I try to, like, make this side with kly and junta and manin and everyone in the team that, yeah, we should bite her bitter the Tun. So it's become like this, yeah, because yeah that that is.
Host 1:19:42
And what is your role on this exhibit? What have you? What part of the exhibit have you helped?
Syew 1:19:48
To create the title they give to me is the cut letter and me and kly, we have different background. Kly is a. A student. I'm a film student. Yeah, so my low is, like, in the take, this one of how we tell the study step by step, and how we end, yeah, like a journey of the audience and kly is like, how we inspire it, and also, like, with the visual art back out of him. He's like, he know how to, like, make visual more impactful. And he know the material. He know the physical stuff. Also Fauci, she know like, how to install it, yeah. So Milo is like, soft, not not about the hard stuff, but the soft, soft experience of audience and the digital, digital part.
Host 1:21:00
Yeah, right. So speak to as a Thai person, why is it important to be standing by showing solidarity and spreading awareness about what's happening next door in Myanmar, why is that an important role for you to take on as an artist in Thailand?
Syew 1:21:17
I have two big answers. One answer is like, I don't think Thailand and Myanmar have a bit have political issue different. I think we are, we are in the same situation. But in Myanmar, Burmese people is like, physically pain, physically loss, and physically like, tangible loss, something like that, and tangible that have a number of of how long something like that, and ah, they are like, violent, violent, like physical violence and everything. But in Thai, I don't think we are not that different, but Thai Government and Authority of Thailand, they are, like, more subtle, and I don't think that we feel safe. Our life is safe. But if you look closely in our identity, how we live, how the Lord is, how the Lord is love, how the service is not that good and will fail, not enough. I think that is that there are the violent too, but subtle like so me as a Thai person, I think how we the more we know about Burmese, the more we know about Myanmar, easily fake us like we are not that that different. My second page, my second answer is, like, I after I moved to Chiang Mai for like, a year and a half, and I feel like I don't think I'm not a Thai person anymore. I feel like, in Chiang Mai is like, a lot of this kid that people and a lot of foreigners. I don't feel like Chiang Mai is Thai. I think it's like I I feel like, after I worked with min and a lot of people in Chiang Mai for a while, I feel like I'm a world member. So it's like, if not just only Myanmar, Ukraine and Middle East, even US and Western is, I think it's like every problem is solid, and we something happened in us. It will affect around here to something wrong in China. Is really sure that affect every variable. So I think it's not the tie to like stand by stand with the Burmese, but I think every person had to stand by each other, yeah, something like that.
Host 1:24:31
How would you say? What have you learned from your Burmese friends going through this terrible darkness, and how have you been inspired by your Burmese friends?
Syew 1:24:49
I’m not just Burmese. And I have been in the south Thailand before, like they are Muslim, right? And this is Burmese I asked. Learn a lot of different culture, and we call the different culture before we see we see each other, that we have something different, but we are except with that different. And in the meantime, it's like this, this kind of this culture different or language, different or habit, different how we react. Something is like, I'm not just learn or inspire from them, but also it's like I learned myself more from them. Yeah, and it's like a journey of who am I? Is not looking inside, but it's about looking for something different and and compare. And I feel like I know myself more in in in the middle of foreigner and in the middle of Burmese.
Host 1:26:06
Yeah. Okay, yeah. And how would you describe what is the importance and the role of art in being in resisting this tyranny and oppression today in Myanmar and everywhere around the world?
Syew 1:26:26
Ah, in it, because not everybody want to listen to something like, had to listen and and like different, something like that. So if you talk like, really, really hard topic with just your study or just speaking or writing, well as this is like, we are on the they talk, we are on social media. We are on, like, ADHD stuff. So I think it's like, it is the opportunity for KT people, artists, maker, theater, like, if you compromise with bigger audience, and it will be like your message will be more, more audience to listen to you. It's like I have been a filmmaker who, like, feel not compromised with bigger audience. But this day, I found out that if I made my film funny, if I make my film like a meme, if I make my art like a meme, if I kill it, everything more cute, it will catch attention for more people. So, and only I think the art, art creative area is like they this area is open for everything. So I think if you look at the bomb, we try to, like, make it cute as possible, fairly as possible, and ask people to, like writing on it, like bombing back the bomb. And it's like the way, like the bomb had following us and have a violent on us. And this time, it's like, yeah, we have our power back, and we can put our power or our like, we are dominating the bomb again, and this, I think, art earlier, creative area, this area is open for anything. So, yes, only art scene, creative scene, or like make a scene. This area is suitable for like. Everyone to speaking on their voice. If you look very closely to like, if everyone look closely to themselves, there are a lot of passion in our mind, our thinking, our body, even the muscle, yeah, if you like have awareness on yourself, yeah, if you have awareness on yourself and you like changing day by day a little bit, yeah. I. Think the world will be better someday, something like that.
Luang Kraya Sidi 1:30:09
Okay, I'm Luan. My name is Kyi. I've been in here Faculty of Fine Arts in Chiang, Mai, Thailand, but I'm born in Bangkok. I moved here already to be, like, around here in Chiang Mai, and I just started to being an artist for like, almost five years already. And along with that, I do curate, yeah, and then, like, I do graphic designers for like, living, yeah. So yeah, that's it for my journey.
Host 1:31:04
So tell us about your participation and role in this particular event.
Luang Kraya Sidi 1:31:08
Okay, I've been working with Aung Burma almost one year already. The first exhibition, accurate is for the love of coming home in can stop one stop event. And then when we see the penis second exhibition, which is I curated, first, we exhibit in Bangkok, right in silo, without the Bangkok. And then here in Chiang Mai again. And yeah, I know, I know min by some of like guys in in check my suggestion into me and, yeah, because of, like, two years ago, I used to be like that. I'm not used to be I still I doing, like, political arts and being activists. Yeah, I can't call myself activist. Like, like autres call me, yeah. So I do art in the public space, and I do, like, performance art and kind of the like, Girl Lila, and some of like, yeah, the risky art. Oh, yeah. Like, what? Like, what's risky art? I do installation, like throwing the toilet paper on the street all around the Chiang Mai, Chiang, Mai towns. But on the toilet paper is kind of bad, like the copy of like the majesty law, which is like, it's a hot topic in Thailand, like before. So dangerous. Yeah, my friend got charged, and we got shot, too, but not a serious shot. So yeah, and those performance art in public in that time is kind of risky, because, like we talked about directly to the political and monarchy in Thailand. So yeah, I've been through this, and then some guy, like, suggest me that like Myanmar community.
Host 1:33:09
Yeah. Why did you want to get involved with the community, the Myanmar community, and help them to tell their story to a Thai audience? Why was that important to you?
Luang Kraya Sidi 1:33:17
It's very important to me because, like, when I do like politics art or talks about politics in Thailand, we are kind of lowly because we are like the other people who like who it's a little group of people who dare to talk about this. And when I met like Myanmar communities, like Burmese people, they have like the the class consciousness class. And I think, like, I want Thai people to feel like this too, like wherever you got privilege, wherever you are you are, like lower class or upper class. You you you can see, like the structure of their social so I think for me, when I when I met like Burmese community, and I bond bound with them, I feel like I met the friends like they are. They are the friends of like the way of thinking of them, like how they express themselves and how they like creative, like resistant, creative. And I, I really appreciate the way they are doing something like this. So I feel like I met a friend. So it's kind of when, when I participate with the curating or something like this, I try to talk to them, like how they feel, not what they want to talk but how do they feel. Because I feel like I work with my friends, being friends, and in Thailand, like, you know, in Thailand, we have, like, the history, which is like Burmese and Thailand is again. She is soldiers for like, long. Time, and we are being enemies when I when I met them, is totally different. Like, it's totally like blowing my mind, like, how their history and how our history, like, teach us, yeah. So I think I feel like the whole knowledge of myself is like it's gone.
Host 1:35:23
How so? How has that changed you?
Luang Kraya Sidi 1:35:27
In Thai teaching like Burmese always being lower than Thai people, they are fled from their home to be to find their good opportunities here, and then they being with, like the lower class in Thailand to work with, like flavors. And they're being just like we. We have like something like they are, they are poor, poor than than us, or something like that, which is, and they, like, identify Burmese in Thailand as and like lower labors, which is, like, this is not make sense, right? And, yeah, that's, that's how Thai people in nowadays sees, I think, because of the history we've been teach like Burmese always like, lose us, like, when, when we fight, when we have a war, or something like that.
Host 1:36:27
So have you been inspired by your Burmese friends? So much?
Luang Kraya Sidi 1:36:32
Yes, they, I think somehow they are. They've been oppressed more than Thai people, right? Like, directly oppressed, and some of their friends died, and they got, like, very, very creativity way to against or against their oppression. Yeah, and being creativity been in the in their trauma. And, you know, like they got really deep trauma about, like the war and the friends and resistance and and what I respect them is like they still keep doing it. Yeah, they're still keeping keep doing in a positive way, or good way, or empowering people that I really respect them.
Host 1:37:20
Yeah, right. You know, it strikes me because there's been such a huge migration of Burmese into Thailand, and we've heard about the problems with the migration, the exploitation, the undocumented, etc, but it also especially in places like Chiang Mai, it makes me wonder if that you mentioned how there's a kind of political consciousness among the Burmese that you just simply don't find among Thai society, and that in some degree, some of the Burmese artists and activists and Democratic leaders that are coming here are acting in really inspiring ways that are impacting, that are influencing, impacting you and those around you. So in a small way, I wonder, do you think it'd be fair to say that because of this conflict, and because of the because so many Burmese of all classes and all types have been forced to come to Thailand in some small way. Do you think that's starting to change some parts of Thai society and open some consciousness up?
Luang Kraya Sidi 1:38:15
This is really hot in in my like, narrow opinion, I feel Yes, Yes, true. Like we have been like, seeing like new kind of Burmese artists, or maybe like lower class, which is have, like the social conscious, which is really like, like, surprised me. Yeah, I think, in my narrow opinion, is quite quiet effects a lot, especially in Chiang Mai you, you can see, like the Burmese people have a community, and they have, like their events, or like their cultural things to happen here and and I think especially for young my people like Shanghai, people like kind, they open. They are not kind. They open. They open. For the people who fed here or who moved here to to be in inner cities, and it's for me personally, when I met, like, creative people of Myanmar. They affect me so much because, like, I know nothing about them before. I know nothing but I know, like Burmese people. Where is it? But I know nothing about Burmese people. You've never been to Myanmar, no, no, not at all. And I can see their communities and their care, creativity, and how they connect to the world, and how they like, open themselves to the Thai communities, is kind of like is have to be like core out like you have to be chorus, courage, courageous to. To connect with them, with a strange place. So it's kind of changed. Changed the social like around me, bad, but, yeah, somehow in, maybe in Bangkok, or I'm not sure, where is it like, wherever in Thailand, the how, how, where, Miss people flip to here is have like, the problem of like, the borderless people are not. Nobody's like nationalist people, no, like, no, no. They don't have papers, and they can do like, illegal things or something like that. But yeah, somehow, for the understanding of of Thai people, they see Burmese people as like, as lower, as as they think, like Burmese people being like thief, being like homeless, being like poor people. So, yeah, it's happened. It's happened like, I think it's increasing somehow, right?
Host 1:41:06
Yeah, you know, it's making me think what I lived in Myanmar a long time. And when I lived in Myanmar, I had a somewhat narrow slice of life of who my community was. And even though I tried to go outside that community, I still had kind of like my set community, and there were Myanmar, such a diverse place, I didn't necessarily go through those networks. But when the coup happened in 2021 those of us who who stood up and realized we had to do something of foreigner Burmese, we suddenly were forced to make connections that we never would have had to make. And I was finding myself friends with different ethnic leaders and Christian missionaries and artists and LGBT and different parts of the country and doctors and journalists and you know, all of these people that my, my narrow slice of life, had never brought me into contact with. And now we were kind of banding together to see even even if we were living in different places, we were banding together to do this virtual event or this advocacy campaign or and it really struck me of like, if this terrible coup had never happened, then I can't see how my life and my direction would have collided with these people. And I wish this coup never happened, but as it did happen, I the kind of flow that it's brought a lot of the Burma space together has really been remarkable. And so I wonder if there's some kind of similarity, or some small way where, like, you know, we all wish the coup never would have happened, but, but having and, you know, these Burmese that are as dynamic and wonderful as they as they're adding to this community, they've lost their home, and we don't know when they could go back. We can't forget that part of it, they don't have a homeland right now. And you know, it's no easy thing to live in a third country and a second country and to try to make a home there and so But given all of this, it's still remarkable to think that by being in by by having had this experience happened to them, they've they've gone into this other place and connected with you and the community here in ways that never would have happened otherwise. There never would have been a reason for this to come together in this way, and that will be interesting to see how things go on and change as a result of that.
Luang Kraya Sidi 1:43:14
For me, like, I mean, like, the copies happened, right? And, yeah, somehow I didn't want it to happen too. But somehow, like, the social is, like the social being destroyed, or like, like, deconstruct themselves. It's, it's revealed how, how people in in that social be like, if reveal how they are, like, how they are human beings, like, can survive in in those situations, because, like, COVID war is not the human behavior, right? So I think there will be some way it's a good chance to get to know, like the fat people from Burmese, or even, like, their connections or something, yeah, somehow it's good for us to bonding with them. And you know, like Southeast Asian program, it's the same, all that, and we can talk in, like, the the same topics, which is like, we have really, like, similar power of questions, like the political, the like Politicians and like everything, yeah, for me, personally, like, I believe in borderless land, yeah, and especially, like, Southeast Asian. We we talk in different language. We been like different ethnics, and we don't know like, like, like, the background of death. Ethnic, because they have, like, plenty of it, but somehow we can connect. Somehow we know each other, like, Okay, be open to you, like, Okay, watch your language, watch your ethnic. And somehow we being friends like and we see each other, or we are Southeast Asian people, and we, we know the sense of that, how to talk to, how to being and open with them. So I think, yes, this is the how I hope it will be, yeah, and we don't need a coup to be, but yeah, for me to share, I want to share for the Burmese community, right? Like they're human beings, and their sense of belonging and the feeling of longing to home is really strong when they when people fled from home, and for me, you can have a second home. Yeah, you should have somehow. And I think like being, being friendly with your neighbors country, or being keep the concept of borderless in your mind is very important because, like, the world is smallest than before. It's smaller than before, sorry. And somehow, I think in the future, the world will be like all connected. So the nationalism is like tense in this day in, yeah, and other countries. But I think that is how political and like capitalism treat us. We don't have to, like follow that idea. We should follow in the like, that human sense, idea of human sense and being friends even they are whatever they are, like ethnic or race or something like that. So, yeah, be kind to the people, I think, yeah, and being open with them to be a friend. Yes?
Host 1:47:29
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