Transcript: Episode #172: Hope from the Heartland
Below is the complete transcript of this podcast episode. This transcript has been generated using an AI transcription service and has not undergone human review. Due to this, there may be inaccuracies in the text that do not precisely match the speaker's actual words. This discrepancy is more likely when speakers possess stronger accents, as the AI might struggle to accurately interpret and transcribe their speech. Therefore, it's important to verify the exact words spoken by referring to the timestamp before citing this transcript in any article or document.
Host 00:24
insight Myanmar podcast stands with the Burmese people resisting the tyrannical military rule. For those now listening in country, please know that you're not alone, our platform and the 1000s of listeners choosing to hear these stories keep you in our hearts. far more people than you may know our son metta and including you and prayers, your courage and sacrifice are not going unnoticed. You're an inspiration to the world. Thank you for allowing us to play some small role in the revolution where you be safe and the UB free.
01:45
Ha, ha ha ha, ha, ha that I
Host 01:57
made and it was it was it was it was so upside down all right, for this episode of Inside Myanmar podcast, we're trying something new, this should be a very interesting conversation that we have underway. We have two guests. This time, one guest is theory who listeners may be familiar with from her past podcast with us as well as her participation on some of the panels that we've been running. And we also have a new guest, Jake. And the purpose of this conversation is, it's quite interesting. I'll share that and then I'll turn the table over to the two guests. So after we aired theories podcast last year, which we I guess two years ago now, which was shortly after the coup that followed Jake, as a listener, who was so moved by hearing the story, that he began sending donations to our nonprofit, better Burma, and asking if in some way theories work could be benefited and the work that she was describing doing that was saving lives and contributing to humanitarian projects. And this continued not just for months, but for years that this intention to want to support me and Maher and particularly support the work that theory was doing, persisted. And theory was deeply moved by the show of support and suggested the idea of all of us coming together on a podcast to just discuss this experience from both sides, the experience of listening and feeling moved and wanting to support and to give and the experience of being able to open up and to share something so difficult and so painful. And to know that there's allies out there that that that do listen, that can make a difference that do care. And so we thought this could be a very powerful conversation to be able to have and exploring those different perspectives. And also touching upon all the listeners out there that are on either side of this equation that are either allies that are listening and wanting to support and find a way that they can help in some way as well as those that are on the frontlines of resisting this military regime and trying to stand for human rights and democracy and the feeling of knowing what it's like to know that others out there do care and you're not alone. So that's the basis of today's podcast conversation. I think first we'll go to Jake and because this all started with theories first interview that was done and his experience in listening to that as as a listener and taking that in. Jake, maybe you can just describe what your experience was listening to that podcast and what what about that the story and what you were hearing led to want to not just passively listen but actually take an active role of supporting and contributing to what you were listening about,
Jake Synder 05:02
okay? I can tell you exactly where I was, I was driving through Kansas in Missouri, I was going to go visit my parents. And I had a couple hours to kill in the car. And I had very, kind of started listening to the podcast, because I was interested in what was going on with Burma. And I just started listening to what theory was saying, and, you know, I just kind of got really caught up in it. And I remember at one point, when you were asking her about, like, what she had to do to stay safe, and what needed, just kind of what she had to do. And I remember her talking, not only about, like, what she had to do, but like how that felt, and like, what the reality of that was like, and I kind of got sucked in at that point. And, you know, to me, it was kind of really interesting to hear somebody just be kind of vulnerable and intimate like that, rather than just kind of like, analyzing or talking about, like, this needs to be done and all that. And, like, I just remember thinking, at some point, like, you know, I should probably support that. So, like I made a mental note to when I, you know, got to where I was going that I would kind of look, look up and see what I could do to maybe start that. And that's kind of the that's the short version.
Host 06:39
And can I ask as well, did you? Or what kind of background or knowledge did you have about Burma when you were tuning in and listening to that?
Jake Synder 06:48
I don't know, I'm gonna sound really naive. But I've always been interested in Asia and that kind of thing. I have a Buddhist practice. So there's that connection. But I always just, I've always been really interested in Southeast Asia. And the fall before the coup happened, I was starting to get interested in Burma and, and how complex it was, and I was reading a lot of stuff. And then the coup happened. And I remember seeing a lot of things in the New York Times. And they were really good about covering it for at least up until, I don't know, probably the end of March, when that all happened. And, you know, there's lots of pictures. And it just really floored me that to see people just like take such huge risks for something that, you know, I just kind of took for granted. And, and then the violence started happening. And I just remember feeling really, like, I don't know, helpless, I guess is probably the best word. Like, there's all these people suffering. And here I am, you know, I'm I don't, I'm not rich or anything, but I don't suffer for anything. I can go buy a guitar, if I want to buy a guitar, stuff like that. And I'm very comfortable. And there's all these other people on the other side of the world, who are like, using slingshots to fight machine guns, for something that I take for granted every day. So that's like, how I really got involved with it. And I don't know, it's kind of weird for me, because I've always been pretty apolitical. I remember in grad school, I used to get into a fight with one of my friends who was kind of a, he was a How should I How should I say this a self appointed Marxist. And this is, this was very right around when Obama was first getting elected. And he would like get all enthusiastic about that. And I was just like, that's just so silly. Like, why is he getting all worked up about that, but for whatever reason, you know, I've gotten probably because of what I've seen, and, you know, even after I initially started following it, I I've gotten involved, I may have even written to my congressman and tried to do other things that I can, I mean, I'm pretty isolated here. I live in a small town in south Texas, that's, like two hours away from any kind of metropolitan area. So like, there's not a lot of continue to be physically involved, but I'm trying to do what I can you know, from from where I am, with what my reality is.
Host 09:45
Right. And so I'm curious when you were listening to theories, podcasts, you know, so you've described you have an emerging meditation practice. You've always been interested in Asia, you have started to become more interested in Burma and then we're following the big news stories as the coup for was broke with Time Magazine in New York Times and other places that were covering it. And then as the news started to drift off the you found our podcast, which was was telling these in depth personal stories and Studies and Analyses and everything else, and you hear a two hour conversation where theory is for much of that conversation is describing, as you say, deeply personal, vulnerable, intimate details about the lived experience of what it's like to be a human at this moment, and, and how our day is affected. I mean, it affected me as well, I still remember a dozen things about about what she said an example she gave, and the imagery she laid out. But given this context, we now know of what brought you to, to wanting to listen and the receptivity, you had an interest in taking in this information. What do you recall about your just your feeling about that move you so much about what theory was saying or the way she said it or the way it impacted you? And how you absorbed it? What what do you remember about what she was bringing to the table that that really was able to break through in in a way that was perhaps profound?
Jake Synder 11:11
Well, for me, being the good English teacher that I am, like, stories are the way in for me to kind of I mean, I don't know, literature, in general is kind of like, opened up my whole world, I grew up in our tiny little town in the Midwest, and, you know, and I knew nothing of the world. So literature was my way. But to answer your question for me, like, as a teacher, and also somebody who's in recovery, like, what I've seen, the big things happen is, is when things are done between two people, and like, just because just the particularities of it, the, you know, kind of the emotional openness, like, there's a lot of courage in that, that. Really, you know, not everybody has, and, like, I wanted to just like, do whatever I, you know, within my limited means of just whatever I could to kind of support that. And you know, it's that is the details and knowing, like, for a certain individual, like this is their reality. To me, it makes it much more vivid, you use the word imagery, and that's like, That was perfect. Like, I can remember some of the stuff she said to you, I remember her talking about, like, she hid her phone in her underwear drawer, because the tatmadaw was afraid of looking at that. Right. And so to me, like, it's more about just learning how it affects individuals lives. Because as a collective, it's easy to as like a group of people you can like as humans, I feel like we kind of just kind of stereotype and lump people into groups, but like, you can't, like fight against so much somebody's particular experience because you can't deny them that truth.
Host 13:13
Oh, right. Right. Yes, that's That's powerful. Let's turn over to theory for a moment and I want to ask you theory what you remember about that interview and what what led to you in in wanting and choosing to speak and choosing what you said and any feeling after it was done? I do want to pause before asking because I do want to note that both Jake and I remember really clearly so many parts of what you said you reference having entire blank spots of your memory. Yeah. And what you attribute to the trauma of the coup you give an example in that second interview of of of pretty shocking things that you had forgotten for example, that you're asking about how your grandmother was doing to your mom and then realizing that your grandmother had passed away and you had somehow forgotten that and so I'm not sure how much you actually remember of that interview and and of those details that Jake and I remember so clearly but I wonder if you can speak to just what drove you to do that interview the the intention of it and if you do what you do remember of it or what stands out from that and in deciding to share and speak on the topics that you did what stands out with that
Thiri 14:31
thank you Joe and also thank you Jake you know I'm a bit emotional now and like hearing from Yangon friend Jake and like how he remember and that you know how one person like me as one person saying this another person just carried on pass it on and just do some actions within we then your, your main like, Jake, I'm really grateful about that. But going back to your questions jour, about how much I remember, to be honest, I, I don't, I don't quite remember some of the detail that you do. Because that was a very moment, I remember that I was recording to for that, for that podcast in I was still in the country. So and that that the place that I was staying, I was doing that recording at one of my safe house, one of my safe houses and that place was so tiny, and you can even hear people walking up the door. So I and also I asked you to do the I remember I asked you to do the recording in my morning, because I feel like mornings are pretty safe. Because at nighttime, I never know when they're going to knock the door and when they're going to just show up and I don't feel safe about it. But at least in the morning, the fact that I can see the light, I feel like at least they're not coming to the door. So maybe the reason I was sharing that feeling. And I could recall it because that was me feeling at the very moment. That's how I was living in fear, knowing that somebody's gonna knock the door, they cannot the door, your neighbor can hear it in, I don't know who my neighbors are, maybe they are siding with the military, or maybe they're siding with us so. So that feeling I think that's make me happen to share that detail moment. And the detail feeling at that time, which I I don't quite remember it, I can remember the some some of the event as the as, you know, as a memory flip chart, but the feeling because I'm not in in the fear please anymore, I'm not in the country anymore. So I don't quite relate to that constant fear that I was living in anymore. So the feeling right now is a bit different because I am out of the country. I'm in a safe place but also another kind of emotional journey that I've been through. So the reason I agreed to talk on the podcast was that um, you know, I usually do not, do not speak. I usually do not like to involve in the making a political stunts are like sharing things, or sharing my story as I like to share the story. But like I don't generally involve actively in any political or social issues. Even though I've been working mostly behind the scene. I will speak only one, I feel it's necessary. Only one. I feel like I need the echo of Hope back because that come from my past experience. In 2017 2018. There was we have a very big Rohingya crisis. The Rohingya crisis has been happening since before but only around 2017 and 18 that got to the UN international attention. But even the beginning, we didn't get enough of the enough of the voices going out and meet us at the next majority and religious majority. I stuck with Rohingya where there were very few of us standing up for Rohingya. So I just I just took you know, I don't really like to talk in public, but then I took a stand. And I, I spoke up and I make you know, I talked about what is happening for in Rohingya, this area in Rakhine State also for Rakhine people as well. So after that public panel, public panel there are people reaching out to me from different Burmese people who are abroad or who are Burmese American or who are inside the country. A few of them reached out to me and and told me that that is a hope that you know, I make a voice and so they feel like they are not alone. And then they came in thanks me and I also thanks them because I was feeling hopeless that I was alone. And then they will feeling kind of hopeless that they were alone. But someone make a noise like when you're in a loss for us, when you make an when you make a voice that voice is echoed to another person and and who may be lost like you in the forest. They came back to to you so from that lesson from that experience, whenever I am in hopeless situation, I tend to speak, I tend to make your voice hoping that there will be somebody out there who will reach out to me and bring the hook back to me. So that's the reason I decided to share my story. Even though my story is, you know, people who are way more difficulty than me in the country, but yeah, that's to, to, to, you know, to wrap up, that's the, that's the reason I decided to share my story and share my feeling just to give out hoped to in the dark, well.
Host 20:48
Thanks for that. And I find it really remarkable hearing both both of you are saying something similar from different sides, there's a commonality of kind of moving beyond one's normal circle or activities and acting an emergent action that is, is taking place out of necessity to, to reach out whether whether it's in whatever type of reaching out that is to connect with with another person and, and on theories case, your your, this when you spoke out against the Rohingya when you were one of really the first Bomar publicly to take that stand. And it was certainly not very popular at the time. But there were many who knew that you were on the right side of history and reached out to you probably afterwards. And then when you spoke on this podcast, and you, you you you normally and I know you normally like to be behind the scenes and, and not very prominent, not in the spotlight. But you you felt that this was a moment you you really wanted to speak you had something that you you had to say the moment required it. And so you did and and I have to say it's it is rare for for podcast to get feedback, you know, most, I've been an avid podcast listener for over a decade. And I don't know if I've ever really given feedback to all the podcasts I listened to on a religious basis, you know, weekly, I just listened and enjoy. And, and so also now, as a producer of podcasts and the maker of podcasts, I don't, I'm not often treated with really knowing how people were impacted. And so when we do know, it's, it's really quite exciting one way or the other, it's quite nice to know, when people are listening and how they feel and gives us a lot of motivation and reflection on how to do things better. In this case, you got that feedback from Jake, you got it immediately in terms of wanting to to financially be able to support the humanitarian work that you were doing, and you got it over time as this continued. And you got to just now from from hearing his opening comments of, of how he was moved and impacted. And you started by your talk by saying how moved you were to hear this stranger from halfway across the world. Someone outside of Myanmar, who was this ally to you and your cause and your work and how, how deeply moving it was for you to hear that and to know that so I wonder if you can expand on that until a little bit more just just how that feels. Knowing that there's someone out there that that is caring and supporting and that you're not alone with this as it can certainly feel if you're in a in a closet of a room where the military could come at any time and and you're you're just trying to stay safe from one day to the other. So how does that feel? Just knowing just that that hearing just now that there? There was someone listening and stepping in and carrying
Thiri 23:41
so yeah, I feel hurt. Yeah, I've been my voice has been hurt in somebody out there. And the first time when you told me, I hate theory you have somebody contributed money to you. And then it was, you know, it's not about the money though. You know, it's your financially it's important, but, you know, it's not about the money. It's about the actions behind it. It's very, very important. Because, you know, this, this is like this gives me hope and solidarity. So this is what I've been asking for you know, when I share my story or, or people have Myanmar. I don't want people to see us as some kind of helpless human being and I don't want people to just ends up buying like, oh, yeah, the situation is really bad and poor people. Oh my God, we pray for you. And it's it's important, but like, that's not enough. You know, I want an action. I was hoping for an action when I share my story. So this getting back back from Jake the not only the financial at least is an actions and for for somebody to just listen and they just can sit in for like for Jake to fake them like to send money there are different process right now he has to be even the top moment you have to be you have to use either if you use the mobile banking, he has to use this phone, he have to click it and he has to you know, put an effort to to do that. And even before the you have to have a willingness, whether willingness to give away of something he owns to a complete stranger across the wall. So there are little, you know, smaller actions and smaller effort even to the point of clicking Set button on PayPal. So, um, you know, what, so when I hear that it was like it's an action right, you know, so it was it was really a feel. I don't know it feels so so good that somebody is somebody out there you know, at least my story somebody listened to my story and somebody listened to my podcast and it it it it means a lot to me you know it's it's a kind of hope and solidarity that I am I am asking I am looking asking for so right now I have learned more and I he he didn't stop justice and then when on jag also do write the letters to the congress people all the all the things that he has done within the capacity and it's also I have learned that is the one person can change I can make the chain one person matters, Jake matters it matters and each of us matters in this if you actually wants to involve in it so I feel really really really grateful even I have never seen never seen Jake and whatever I pray you know I have that Mytho pray I really wish Jake to be healthy and and be happy and peaceful in his life. And I really wish that he doesn't suffer just like we do. So you know it's a way of spreading it that I was spreading it out to another stranger because I receive it from him and and he gives me hope that oh you know telling story matters they are somebody there are people out there who may wonder who who here and maybe I cannot tell the whole or about what's happening in in our country what's happening with my life at least I could tell one person and then that one person here hear me and it's all matter is a small thing little step and the feeling is so I really cannot express it because it's a really big feeling for me it's a very complex and mixture of hope and I feel love you know mich mixture of Hope love solidarity and and just you know feeling good right you know somebody here you so I really cannot express this that well now but like i All I know is it it just feels so good and my eyes are watering like even this morning also I was watering one my eyes were watering is one Jake was telling and whenever I received that little kindness and little happiness and pieces playing pieces that actually makes my day and Jake also remind me that you know I should be doing this replicate this kind of small actions gets small and good action to other people around me so Jake actually action of Jake actually also remind me to look after people around me to at least to check in with them. And and at least to share like one piece of doughnuts like last night I took that took two and then I took the motorbike taxi and then I give them a motorbike taxi driver, a donut which is like yeah, it's a thing little things and I just every time I whenever I remember I just like to share from me even though those are not the big things because I remember exactly how it felt to be shared by somebody a stranger. A random kindness from strangers means a lot to me. So I happen to act within my daily life from the front One thing that I have learned from Jake and people, other strangers are their kindness from other strangers.
Host 30:08
Jake, what are your thoughts on hearing that?
Jake Synder 30:12
Well, I'll just say that when you go, when you first contacted me about doing this, I kind of got a little emotional too, because I never really thought that. I mean, I knew I was doing something but like, and I just like, initially, like, purposefully, like, tried to stay out of it, like a couple of times, people asked me if I wanted her to send me a letter, and I said, No, I don't want to, like, I don't want her to feel obligated anyway, because I didn't, I thought that would kind of like taint it, but I don't know, just to know that it actually did something is really nice feeling. You know, it's because I, there are ways that I've, you know, that is probably help that I won't ever be able to, to know or understand and, you know, but that's, that's okay. You know, it's, it's what I can do, is, you know, kind of how I feel. But it still feels really nice to know that it's that it's helped.
Host 31:26
Right. And I think this is also important to mention that our our nonprofit has had over 900 individual donors since the coup. And for any one of those 900 donors who happens to be listening to this now, or perhaps the 900 and first donor who might give after hearing this, just to know that, that what you will give or what you have already that this is the human element. And I mean, to hear these voices of No, and this is I think this is a very rare and unusual moment to have a conversation of this nature where where it's not the the anonymity from it has been taken out and the the experience of giving and receiving and then even the one who receives is not just in a passive receiving mode, as we hear that it encourages theory to share her donut with the motorbike taxi driver, or just be kind to people around her that, that this is just a memory that are this is a a an indicator that for those that are for those that have given or well give that this is the kind of impact that can have beyond as theory so eloquently said beyond what the material needs are the process of going through that, you know, it's a burden, to think about doing that into, to part with something that one has, and to go through the, whatever the it's more than a click of a button that she said, and knowing that her life and her country's welfare matters enough to someone to take that trouble, everything that includes that's that's just quite a powerful thing to know that that support is there. And so, we want to send this message as well to all 900 of you who have given in whatever form you have, that the support you have given has also reached its target in this way. And even though you might not hear so directly as as this conversation is going, you know, know that, that your support has made people not feel so alone. And I think with that, to check in with theory, I think this is this is an important point and dynamic to look at this feeling of being alone being isolated, and Myanmar has not really enjoyed neither international support on a massive level nor really sustained media attention. And so there, there has been this growing despair and and depression among many Burmese youth that after two years of continuing to resist. So I wonder theory, if you can speak to this feeling of of being alone or isolated and whatever form it's taken for you or for those with you who are on the struggle, and how some kind of international support in whatever form it takes. What role that plays in kind of breaking through this, these dark moods of feeling alone and isolated.
Thiri 34:15
Now, um, you know, two years on the end of this month, it will be two years since we will enter the coup. So to the level that it's what at least for me, I'm pretty clear that there is not much the international government will do and can do and well, too, because I don't think it's more about the political will. So I don't see much of the political will, at that level, the policy level. And also and also it's it's also practically it's also a very deadlock position. So I don't See much changes in that political space. And so it's been two years living, that it's, it's been live forever, it's very, it's very long. And we've, we feel like we don't get enough support. And we, people don't even talk about us in the international media anymore. Because we are not the story anymore. In, in, in journalism, or in the storytelling perspective, because because there's no, you know, storytelling perspective, it's things are flat, they can't tell it. So they will, they don't want to tell it. Not that that conflict, or the problem doesn't exist anymore, it's just 10 the eyes away, unless we have a very bit that, you know, very big things coming, coming back again. So a lot of us are feeling alone, and feeling like we're not being seen, or we're not being being heard. And nobody really talks about us. So we really, it's, it's in a way, we feel like we were fighting for our self which in We also believe that that there's no super in savior, we have to fight for our own life. But we want a little bit of we want support. And this support, it's not just it's not material, you know, it can be material, because you know, you can go through the financial support Indonesian that's one thing. The other thing is the the people to people connection. So I will say there are two part one is the political space that is a there is a deadlock. But while the while we don't see much changes in the political space, we need to maintain the resilience among people and maintain the certain good things among us, like the kindness and sharings and love and everything, we should maintain it while we don't know what the futures are wonder one the victories comes. So. So with that we need support from international people international public, like, we want to talk to you about what's happening with our life. And also we want your support. And that support, you know, like I always said, Can it's beyond material, you know, you can write to us, you can write an open letter to us, you can, you can write a small note, if you have any Burmese friends, just reach out to them, and check in with them. Because some of them may not be alive tomorrow, some of them may not be may not be, you know, maybe going through difficulty checking with them, or are involved in our campaign, or the right to your congress people to do the to do more on Myanmar. And that, that kind of thing. So we are at the stage, yes, a bit lonely, but at the same time, we still don't lose hope, I still don't lose hope in people, you know. Because at the end of the day, it's a third, you know, as a human rights document teacher, my, my, my work and my daily life, in a way, involved around the tragedy, that I have to record the tragedy in detail details and everything. And also myself going through this brutality of the military, and going away from home and everything. But at the end of the day, what I would remember, it's not all the tragedy and all the all the violations and how bad or how cruel humans can be. It's more about I would choose to remember the, the, you know, the good things, even in the middle of the evil things going on the good things, even in the middle of health, like loving kindness, support and sharing. And those kinds of things are the things that I choose to remember. And that I will remember. So I think that that is needed for other Burmese people. So maybe you can write to us. You can make the pen pal you can make a you know, open letters or you can just tell your friends tell your neighbor tell your family members, if you know about Myanmar, tell them what's happening. And I think that's enough and so the and also not only put in within yourself, just make sure that we know that you hear us so that we know that oh yeah, there are people out there. We are not forgotten. We are moving forward. For our life, and we can celebrate the living. Yeah, a lot of people die, but also a lot of people are still living. And we should also celebrate the living in hardship. So, to wrap up, you know, we feel we've, we're feeling like we're alone, but you know, you can be part of it, you can help us, or you can support us, not to save us, but to help us. You know, if you hear from us, make an ad called back to us that you hear from us.
Host 40:33
Thank you for that. And another, more powerful imagery to contemplate as well. And, Jake, how do you feel in hearing that this action that you chose to take on and the way that you chose to act, that it was being received as being a good thing in the middle of hell to quote, theory's words? How does it feel to under just understand the context of in which you reacting?
Jake Synder 40:57
Now, it's pretty fucking powerful. You know, part of the reason why I, maybe I should have probably said this earlier, but part of the reason why is, is that, you know, I was, you know, sitting, you know, in my meditation cushion, and, you know, I, you know, do the chanting and stuff afterwards. And in some ways that felt, like nebulous and kind of an impotent at the same time. And, like, I knew, it was like, you know, I believe that that was doing something, but it didn't, you know, what theory allowed me to do was to, like, give some specificity, specificity to something that was bothering me. And, like, that I was, you know, so now that I could, like, there was somebody, there was a face there, there's somebody that I could help for, you know, do whatever I could, you know, to, not whatever I could, but you know, just show up for. That's, you know, that, that enabled me to do that. I've always thought that, you know, you know, a lot of the good things that happen in life are just the product of showing up for something. You know, my own background in recovery, you know, how do you stay off drugs, you do it one day at a time you keep showing up every day? You know, I tell this to my students that if you want to graduate from college, you got to show up for class every day. And, you know, so being able to do something every month, like concretely, like I don't know, it gave it made made them real to me, rather than just, you know, oh, I hope those people, you know, all their suffering ends, you know, that's not, it's not as wishy washy as that kind of wish. If that makes any sense at all?
Host 43:06
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And another thing I'd like to ask you is, you know, I often in the last two years have often been asked by people well, well, what can we do this as a professional military, one of the the heaviest armed militaries in Southeast Asia that has backers in Russia, and and I'm just this normal person living in wherever and what can I maybe I can give some money, but what can I really do and kind of kind of a very removed hopeless feeling from it. And the way I've come to answer that is, certainly I don't want to give a checklist of like, well, these are your means, and you've done this much. But you could be doing that to get into that whole judgment is really awful. It's nothing I'm interested in speaking about, much less even considering or thinking about those are really up to one's own individual ideas and means, but what I do speak to is there's this moment where one decides I'm going to be involved or not, and that involvement can take any form, it can take a very minimal form of volunteer service or have of taking some action or reaching out to someone, occasionally even. And it's really just that thing turning on and I think being a foreign ally myself and knowing many other foreigners who are in Myanmar for whatever reason for business or travel or meditation or monasticism or academia, whatever they were there for. It was really shocking to me after the coup to see some people that I thought had benefited greatly from their involvement in Myanmar, the spiritually materially or career wise or whatever, and really not have anything go off in their mind that that they should be involved in any way right now. And again, it's not to dictate what someone does do. i There are people I know that that that are participating in minimal ways, but doing it with a very full heart. It should it was just the question of, of something not being turned on. And in your case something was turned on, you don't have a strong connection to Myanmar, although there's interest in Asia and certainly Buddhism and meditation, but something in you turned on clicked on and was like, Yes, I'm gonna go this extra step. And so I'm wondering if you could go back to, to that, that initial decision as well as every subsequent decision, because you're, you're, you're really making that decision every time over and just talk about what, what was clicking on why it was clicking on and what mechanism was about.
Jake Synder 45:42
I mean, kind of, like I said, it was a lot of it, it was about the frustration of seeing all the suffering that was going on, and feeling pretty helpless about to that I could do anything about that suffering. And, and it just seemed like, to me that, especially after like that March was over, that, it just kind of just fell off the radar. And at least as far as I mean, for me anyways, you know, I, most of the places I get from information from or, you know, kind of like mainstream places, and you know, even when, like, I would listen to like the BBC, like, there just wasn't that much there. And I thought this is crazy. And then. So I was like, it just like, I think I was looking to do something about it. I just didn't have an outlet to do that. But the podcast, and then very specifically, when, at the end of that episode, when you said, if you write to us after you donate and, you know, say that you want that money to go to that person, then, you know, that kind of like turn on the light for me like, Okay, I have some agency here now. Because like, I can, I can, it's not just I'm giving it to some foundation and like, and then I get the, you know, like a, like no disrespect, like I get a newsletter saying all the things that you're doing. But like, there's no sense of like that, that's actually done it like that, where's my money in that, right. And I think a lot of people, when they donate one, I have like, feel that like their money, their money is being used for something specific. And like, being able to just say, just send it to her, like just short circuited all of that. And that was, to me, that was the that was the green light when I was like, okay, when I get to wherever I'm going, and I have some time, that's when I'm going to start clicking the buttons and see what I, you know, to send the money. And ongoing, like, this is going to sound bad, but like when the war in Ukraine started, like, I just felt really sick to my stomach. Because I felt that like, okay, whatever it was, there is like, whatever attention that there was going to be given to that it's just gonna be gone now. And to have, you know, to be honest, like the only thing I ever hear about is everyone's on the BBC, when they when the tatmadaw You know, senses on Santucci for another however many years they give her it's like becoming a farce. If it wasn't since it even though it was already but like, that's the only thing I ever hear about it. Besides what you guys do. Or, you know, the, my other alternative was, was to like get on Twitter and like, see what people were posting from, you know, Insight Myanmar, but for me, that was that got to be almost unhealthy. Because at certain points, like I was watching, I was watching people get killed every day. And like, that was it, I was like, Okay, I need to step back from this because like, there's only so much I can change. That's the only thing you know, there's only so much I can do about it. And so, you know, just keeps to just keep showing up every month. I gotta send the money for theory than that. And just doing like, I don't know if that at least gives me some I feel like I'm doing something about it.
Host 49:29
Right, and you mentioned the knowledge of specifically what your contribution is doing. To to actually make a difference. I wonder theory if, if you can speak to anything that those funds were able to do I know I'm putting you on the spot here because it's been years of receiving contributions and that your work is multifaceted and and at this moment in time, you might not be able to bring all to mind but I wonder if anything stands out of what those funds were able to support.
Thiri 50:02
Yeah, so those fun, I think, come to the people. And so I, these days, a lot of me and my friends, we don't have, we don't, we don't have jobs, but we have, we've been, you know, we have been supporting to we have to donate, or we have to contribute money to the here and there some places in the, in the, in the area, like, you know, I say have some savings. So I have, I have some money for myself. So any extra money that I receive, when I tell the story or something, I, I share some of them, not all I use it for myself, because for my relocation and everything, but some of the things here and there, I have to donate, like, let's say the school in middle of Burma, when they need when they when you need the money for the particular notebook for the children. And sometimes my people in your mind, they will rent, they will have to ask for the donation for the 1313 different issues, let's say for blanket or for the school fees or for for snack or something. So any occasional time people would like reach out to me, so I could send some of the money to them. So I share the money with them. But but not all, like most of the money it goes to me then it just go for my relocation and any go for my because I moved to the another country to go for my relocation and go for some of the some of the home some of the bill. So that's most of that some money goes to. And before that I I like to, you know, address the, I like to share things what Jake, you just use it you just said about you know, when you see the image of tragedies and is overwhelming, right? And, and then people have 211 We approach the world with the tragedies and everything. People wants to care but also very difficult to keep going on because it's very overwhelming to know all the all the tragic news around the world, like the bombing there. And killing here, not only in Yemen as well, like in Syria, in, in Palestine, in Ukraine and in everywhere, like around the world. Right? A lot of a lot of the things going on so, so, so, so I don't want to approach people when I tell our Well, when I tell our story, that's not the approach that I want to take, you know, not not not any more tragic story, even though Yeah, there are tragedy happening in our daily life, I just want to share the story of living, you know, real living, and I want people to us I want to approach is like, look how we are living even in a difficult situation. This is how we are living. This is not where I am not coming here to tell you how bad our life isn't something so you know, that's that that's the message personally, I will want to share to two people around I want people to care. But also, I don't want to compete the tragedies or anything anymore. Because you know, the wall already have enough tragedy. And we are even being known. And our empathy and sympathy is are being numb, because we've been kind of prone to all the tragic news around the world. So. So yeah, that the approach that I want to do is more about the living. So. So that's why when I told when I asked you guys to reach out to people who are living, it's to share hope, and to share them to celebrate their living and to remind them that, hey, you are living. So that kind of thing. And also you can be nice to know you have the reason like Jake, and you're the reason you can help help us in a way is because you don't have a conflict or you don't have a similar violation, really big violations going on in your country. That doesn't mean that there is no violation going on in the US. But because you can you can help us because you don't have an active daily life violation going on. So you can also prevent it for yourself. And also you can be also nice when you think of us when you think of our how difficult our life is and the living situation, not only reaching out to us, also be nice to people around you and be prevent the system that you have things that you have. It's do not take it granted, whatever happening in our world, it can happen in your part of the world if the system fail. So the dictatorships and all the injustice coming, and if you remove all the citizenship and skin colors, race religions, ethnics, whatever, it's human, you know, we're connecting based on the human level. So we have connecting based on the injustice, you don't need to understand the complex political things to understand injustice, like Jake may not necessarily know, Myanmar politics, which is fine. You know, it's, it's okay. But we connect your human, we just like you breathe, I breathe, just like you eat, I eat just like you want to live. I want to live. So just like you want to be happy, I want to be happy and people of Myanmar wants to be happy. And people in the other conflict society as well. They also wants to live. So so. So it's a more like human to human connection that I just wanted to address. Jake. Last point, you know, the, the, what you have been doing? I think it is the healthy way. And even if you don't want to hear the tragic news from us, which is fine, you know, I'm telling to other people as well, you know, which is fine. As long as you find your own way of many to share your solidarity with us. I think it is. I want to say it is completely okay. It is completely fine. Jake, how are you? What's your recovery? Yeah,
Jake Synder 57:00
oh, yeah. Recovery is about. I used to be a heroin addict. And, but that's I don't I, I've, I'm over 11 years clean now. So just just that background, to this, the short answer. I'm much more happier than I'm much happier than I used to be. One day, I
Thiri 57:24
hope to meet you in person. And I don't know, I really want to write it to you. You know, I have. I am a calligrapher. And I like to write as well. But I really cannot find words. Because there's a lot that I want to talk to you but but I really, I really can't, you know, I really can't write it down. So it's, it feels so good. And I really, really, really think things think really think you really, it means a lot to me. And I happen to share about you to other friends as well, like, Hey, I have this friend, a friend. Um, you know, I have never know I have never seen but, you know, I, you know, he's been supporting, he's been helping. And that kind of thing I happen to share with other other people, other friends so that they know that not alone. And when I share your money to be other friends, I was tell them, Hey, I got it from this money. I got it from a stranger, who's my friend. And he listened to it when you share it to me. And then I share it with I share it with you guys. And so some of my friends have heard of your name. And even though they don't know you, and even, you know you are so you, you you you are no among us that does what I want to say. We're not they're not strangers to us. So we are a bit more. We're familiar with your name, even though we don't want the last name, but it's fine. We're like, oh, we have that friend, Jack somewhere in the US. And so yeah, I just want to share with you actually I tell it to my mom and my mom's Oh, such a great human being.
59:18
Can you Gaiman's effect. Yeah. So yeah. So you are no.
Jake Synder 59:26
Oh, that's cool. I mean, for your, you know, when he asked you that question, the best answer I could have heard was, you know, whatever you send us help me maintain my well being, you know, and so, I don't know if you, if you if you want to feel like you're hurt to if you want to feel like you need to be heard. I always view conversations and letters just like a tennis match. So if you volley me something, I'll volley it back.
Thiri 59:56
Sure. Yeah. Thank you so much. And that I don't really have anything to say Jor. And thank you very much for making this happen. You're because this means a lot to me. And I hope that other people also, you know, this conversation, I, it's, you know, it's very different, like receiver give us and like, it's, it's, it's stunning back and forth and it's, it is so meaningful for me. And you know, these three people from different parts of different parts and small actions that we do. It's something
Host 1:00:38
this is beautiful hearing that and I mean, I just have a couple reflections on the last exchange, I am reminded of my first meditation teacher, sn Goenka and one comment he said that always in the 10 day course that always stuck out was that the he said, What is the best sign that you're on the path? What is what is a clear sign that you're really on the spiritual path, and you might expect him to say like you're seeing invisible beings, or you're developing certain powers, or you're, you know, you're having the whatever the Scriptures say about the different stages, you've had a sign that you're at that stage? He said, developing two qualities generosity and gratitude, generosity and wanting to look to others, what what can you give, how can you help, how can you make their life easier gratitude of what has been given to you and holding, having that gratitude, having that feeling of of, of being grateful that that someone has done something for you and holding that and I appreciated what you said theory, you know, people giving me gifts, even small gifts mean a great deal to me. And if it's a shirt, every time I wear the shirt, I think of that person, I think of the fact that they chose, they went out of their way to buy a shirt, and then to give that to me, and every time I wear it, it just reinforces and reminds me of my relationship and meaning with that person. And so it's really an exchange of on both ways of the values of heart and mind and being able to, to cultivate and develop those qualities. And I think that's a really beautiful thing. And the second thought I had is, it's just, it's, you know, the vulnerability that theory was sharing with on that podcast, you know, Jake to share your story of overcoming addiction of a really, really awful substance, which is really hard to get underneath from and to, to come out of that, and not just come out of it, not just leave that behind and do so with a support group. But to come out of that nightmare. And to to have the wherewithal and the the the wholeness and the integrity to to have you know, as you've referenced that, that your journey of recovery has transformed from and transcended, and not just being about you getting better and getting hold but about your role as part of this society in this world society to someone you've never met and a country you've never been to, and a struggle that you're not involved in. And the fact that this is that this kind of, of beauty, this kind of goodness in the middle of Hell is theory put it has come out of, of your own escape from from a nightmare that many don't get away from, you know, that's and to be to be able to share that I mean, that's that's also just very moving and powerful as well.
Jake Synder 1:03:29
Thank you. It's, um, it's, I don't know, anything that's ever good has happened to me has been some random person doing something that they probably forgot about. And so I've I've come walked up to people, you know, said, you said this, like, 10 years ago, and I'll never forget. And he's like, I remember saying that. So you never know.
Host 1:03:58
So it's also just a powerful reminder that whatever situations we find ourselves in whatever brokenness, whatever hopelessness that we're in, where we don't even know how we can get out of it ourselves. And I think all of us, all three of us here and every single person listening has been in some situation where where you feel like everything that could has broken down, including one's faith in oneself at times, and, and to know that, that there's a way to get through it that not just completes yourself and get yourself out of that. But also goes beyond to to being able to help others in their time of need. That's just zooming out from all of this. That's that's a powerful message of humanity, I think.
Jake Synder 1:04:42
Yeah, I mean, to put it real simplistically, it's, you know, being a giver, rather than a taker or trying to be you know, you can have that aspiration. theory if there's a thing where there's actually where you can actually like write to somebody that would be something that I would be interested in for dissipating or defeat, you can make the theory you could start something like that where people exchanged letters or something, I think that'd be pretty intense and nice.
Thiri 1:05:15
Yeah, yeah, that would be nice. Because they know, during the Holocaust, I wanted the Holocaust Memorial Museum. And that, you know, there are people who writes the letters, and I remember there was one lady who had, you know, trying to take her pen, Paul, person out, I think she wrote to the US, US government, and she's just like, trying to get that person trying to get the idea that you woman in her family, get out of the, I think get out of the situation. And so, you know, that's something I don't even I don't remember exactly the word but like, that's, I remember this kind of thing. So hope is important. I think what I was saying is, it's this little pen pot, kind of thing like letters. And, and I think those will be good. Like, especially now we have the social media. In the past, people send the actual letters, and we can actually do the extra letters, which I love that. But also, we can always write the letters online and send a little bit of message, a little bit of small things and reminding the people off Myanmar that they live.
Host 1:06:34
So with that, I just want to thank both of you for coming on here for sharing your stories, hearing those very different perspectives from different parts of the world is very educational, for me very inspiring. And I think for our listeners, as well, so thank you so much for taking the time with us.
Jake Synder 1:06:49
You're very welcome. And I hope whatever comes out of this as it generates some more people doing more things, and or at least at the very, you know, at the at the minimum, you know, more awareness. So thank you.
Thiri 1:07:04
Thank you, both of you to make this happen. You need to have a conversation. So, like I said, when you tutor to the other listener, like I said, if you if you share things, and if you want if you hear from us, not just only take it in also lead, making sure that we are also making sure that we know that you heard so make, give us a Elko of voices that hey, we hear you and I will keep sharing doughnuts to other as well they're not you know, getting a lot of sugars. I'm not going to spread the sugars, but you know, I'm gonna share the the little kindness and the total love to strangers. Any possible time I can. So it's to honor Jake. So thank you so much and keep hearing us.
Host 1:08:15
Many listeners know that in addition to running these podcast episodes, we also run a nonprofit, better Burma, which carries out humanitarian projects across Myanmar. While we regularly post about current needs and proposals from groups on the ground, we also handle emergency requests, often in matters that are quite literally life or death. When those urgent requests come in, we have no time to conduct targeted fundraisers as these funds are often needed within hours. So please consider helping us to maintain this emergency fund. We want to stress that literally any amount you can give allows us to respond more flexibly and effectively when disaster strikes. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military coup, we welcome your contribution in a form currency or transfer method. Your donation will go on to support a wide range of humanitarian and media missions, aiding those local communities who need to post donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movement CDM families of deceased victims, internally displaced person IDP camps, food for impoverished communities, military defection campaigns, undercover journalists, refugee camps, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies COVID relief and more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs. You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution to a specific activity or project you would like to support. Perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode. All of this humanitarian work is carried out by our nonprofit mission that are Burma and he donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fun. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website better burma.org and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause in both websites except credit card. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we can take donations through Patreon Venmo, GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either website for specific links to these respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org. That's better Burma. One word, spelled ve t t e r bu r n a.org. If you'd like to give it another way, please contact us. We also invite you to check out our range of handicrafts that are sourced from vulnerable artists and communities across Myanmar. Available at a local crafts.com. Any purchase will not only support these artists and communities, but also our nonprofits wider mission. That's a local crafts spilled a LOKACRA FTS one word a local crafts.com Thank you so much for your kind consideration and support.
1:11:48
They are, whatever I Nanga, we're gonna do, we're done. And the reason is, we got busier and busier. Oh yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda. No, no