Transcript: Episode #155: Yearning For Home (Panel Discussion)

Following is the full transcript for the panel discussion. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.

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Host  00:14

You're about to hear a panel discussion that was recently recorded live, regular listeners to this platform may find the dynamic of the show somewhat different than in our usual long form interviews. For one, you'll of course be hearing several voices talking together in conversation, rather than an interview of a single guest. Also, there may be some differences in the sound quality, as the various participants are not using the same technologies to connect virtually to the event. But perhaps most notably, unlike with our podcasts, we are not doing any extensive post production. So you may notice that the conversation has more of a free flowing and organic feel distinct from the more polished nature of podcasting, we invite you to check out our website as well where you can see the accompanying video of this panel discussion. And for those of you who may like to tune in wire to our upcoming panels, where you can also ask questions directly to the guests, we invite you to check out our website or any of our social media feeds to learn more about our forthcoming program. But for now, sit back and enjoy the interesting discussion that follows.

Zoe Wild  01:21

So for those who don't know, I am Zoe wild, founder and executive director of one light global. We're an international humanitarian organization that works around the globe, perhaps mostly with refugees, but also with indigenous communities. And we've partner with insight Myanmar, to bring awareness to the crisis in Myanmar, and to raise funds for humanitarian works within the country, and for schools and means around refugee camp. And many years ago, I lived in Myanmar. So this is an issue close to my heart. And everyone here is from Myanmar, or has lived in Myanmar for a long time much longer than I did. And our topic today was introduced by theory who was in our last panel. And it's this topic of yearning for home, and what it means to be far from our home and unable to return to our home. It's something I think everyone can relate to around the world in some capacity. But when people are forced to flee their country, it enters into the psyche on a much deeper level. And we wanted to give space today for people to share their experience of what this really means. Host did you want to introduce yourself? Oh,

Host  02:49

yeah, thank you so much for everyone who's here and we'll be we figuring out this live stream soon. So hopefully getting the link to go up on Facebook but but happy to have the people that are that are here now. And this is this is quite a powerful topic on the question of what it means what what home is and what home means for different people what the loss of home represents. And and, and better understanding both in on a personal level as well as overall on the country, how these current times of what so many people have been going through both in the last two years as well as for ethnic minorities from for many years before. And so these are the topics that we'll be delving into we thank everyone who's joining us live everyone who's going to be coming into this as we get started on this and other platforms, and everyone is listening to this weeks or months after the fact that in through audio or video for this will be shared for the archive. And with that, let's get going. Great.

Zoe Wild  03:55

So we are live on YouTube. I put the link in the chat. And I will figure out Facebook soon hopefully, our technical genius is not here today. We wanted to open today with a poll on a chin POM called copies dentures. And we're going to have Simon read that because he speaks chin lay and then Coco tat will read the translation in English. And rather than take this poem apart and analyze it, we're just gonna have the audience sit with it, and let it land in its own way for everyone and we'll come back to it later. So whenever you're ready, Simon,

04:41

thank you so much God. So let me start to read this poem and he said he had a good cook could be a role, concern bang, and cloudfoam how they lomi honey Hey, can you kill her chameleon de se zone? Coming up here and Globus Linton, Saru. Ditcher come home kappa fatsia mancha Hanoch Kappa Alpha Kappa hacia Suruga sweet have long hair Kobani chim don't open to a man fabric to kaha GC need to nippy her Nan ha funny low a day is in 13 Different Chihuahua a Jeremy a hard to lucky to pico eight on ADR candle bang Huzzah. A good in Haiti to be enlightened being quick on a chokehold allow holism in Chun Liang and Chuck Hakalau in Latin Lang Meebo adored Big Bang be an era later on. Other big oil ahead tune uncommon and etait allow other big oil icon to layer up in simple Adobe avoid more on how a told me could be only zoom in to afternoon per tonne, a hardbound phone can fall onto a Docomo D. Thank you so much.

Zoe Wild  06:12

Thank you, Coco tan, if you would read it now in English, for those of us who are not familiar with chinley Thank

06:20

you, Zoe. The poem is by the simple words, but noted Chimpo work ID. We usually write it in Burmese and it's been translated into chin ly language that was read by Dr. Simon just now by slight delay, or why tongue the chin translator so my version is going to be in English translated from Burmese ID the piece dentures by ID lie concedes can be used to use for chicken feed. My teeth fell into my cut hands. Flushing my two toddlers gums. By smile. My proudest smile in my dream last night. My teeth are full of cavities. guppies daughter I am. I must chew my bones to the dust. Some of guppies did was Elaine kappa who boasts a single goal tooth says in my whole body, my teeth are the most precious. Your teeth look like nappies CC every morning coffee takes our attention out of a water cup to break fast. After each meal, your whole adventures with both her hands. She was punched them with soap and rinse them in water as if she were doing the dishes. She is too feeble to walk out of our garden. All our friends are confined in their homes to everyone who visits our halls is her best friend. They keep chatting and chattering. She has lost touch with her friends of our age. She has never told her grandchildren about her best friends. Does she ever have a best friend looking at copy from behind? washing her false deed? Her granddaughter cannot help but wonder perhaps one after another, our real friends have abandoned just like a teat. Thank you.

Zoe Wild  08:35

Thank you. I'm looking forward to unpacking it a bit. In a little while.

Host  08:42

Yeah, thank you for that. That's that's good to start out with some poetry and the original and English language to get our, our minds on this topic. And from there. Let's learn a little bit about our different panelists. So I'd like to ask each panelist if you can give a short introduction one or two minutes about yourself and your background and your biography. Before we all start sharing so because Coco that because you just were sharing the the poem, why don't we go first with you if you could tell a little about yourself.

09:17

Hello, my name is Coco. And I am a poet, poetry editor and literary translator based in Norwich, United Kingdom. And yes, I've been a poet as long as I remember. And, of course I've done a lot of other things in in, in my past reincarnations. But poetry has always been a mainstay for me. And I enjoy poetry. But these days I am writing poetry full time. And I've been writing about it full time for nearly 10 years, maybe more than 10 years. But anyway. Yeah, and And sometimes I also teach poetry. I give 40 workshops, which reconstruction workshops and Creative Writing workshops and so on. Yeah, that's, that's it about me. Thank you.

Host  10:12

Thank you. Thank you. Wonderful. Let's go to na tonics.

Eh Nay Thaw  10:16

Hello, everybody. Good evening. Good morning and my colleagues and friends in Myanmar. My name is Sandy thaw. My professional work is refugee resettlement caseworker, work with the refugee resettlement agency. I'm also a co founder of ICANN, your organization led by young adult youth to help assist resettlement sorry, displacement and eternally IDP refugee across the Thai Burma border.

Host  10:46

Great, thank you, Simon, let's go with you next time.

10:48

Thank you so much. And it's really great to see you all and then I'm so honored to be here. And then my name is Osama. And then a book I was a medical doctor. And then I used to be working in the role of setting Myanmar before coup, but then after the coup happened, and yeah, we are I'm with my team and then working for our people in the way that we can for, especially in the border course. And of course, are in Washington state as well as from Chad, thank you so much.

Host  11:20

Okay, thank you, a courier to you.

11:23

Hi, everyone. I'm so glad to be here. Before the coup, I was just a young professional kind of working in. In, like private sector development in Myanmar. I was born and raised in Myanmar, although I have lived abroad for a few years. But I was always interested in supporting the development of my country. So I always came home and wanting to live in Myanmar. Since the coup I've been working while I started working on CDM, online, coordinating CDM support groups, and running my own CDM support group. And that slowly progressed to volunteering for different energy projects in various capacities. And currently I am until consulting for a nonprofit that trains activists in Myanmar, virtually and I am serving in the ministry of international cooperation under Dr. Sasa.

Zoe Wild  12:20

And for all of our participants, there may be some listeners in the audience who don't know these Aquaman. So if you can just when you say CVM, or energy, if you can let people know what you mean by that

12:33

be really helpful.

Host  12:34

Thank you. Okay, in theory, let's hear from you. Hello, everyone.

12:39

My name is theory. And I, my background is in research and media. And I was in a country for a year after the coup. And then since then I've been moving around. So I'm not in the country anymore. But really nice meeting you all. And so looking forward to discuss with the discussion about home, which a topic that resonates me a lot. And so I'm so looking forward to discuss with you guys. Thank you.

Host  13:10

Yeah, so let's stay with you theory for a moment with you referenced how this is a topic that means a lot to you. This is and indeed this, our second panel here was driven by something you said in our first panel, where you had an extended period of talking about how the loss of home and what that meant. And we all talked privately after that and realized we wanted to have a series of ongoing panels, and that for our next topic, this would be a very vibrant and powerful topic to spend an entire session on. And so to kick this panel off, I like to start with theory and ask you what is it about this topic that is so personal and so meaningful, and so important to share on your side and also to impart to those Burmese communities around the world such as yourself as well as those foreign communities to better understand what you're going through?

14:03

Thank you, you're so like, I am yeah, I I've been traveling a lot since I was 20. So I don't really have a feeling of home like attached to a place or anything and I've been like working around and I live abroad and and just live in a country and just a bit more like the sort of home is not necessarily a physical place for me it's more about the sense of belongings and also more like attachment just for me. But for some people, it can be from a it can be the land because land is an identity or it can be the physical home itself a part in my work. I work a lot with the documentation. And I work a lot with the I worked a lot in a conflict affected area so I came across people like us in home and but it does even I've been documenting you have Never really personal to me until I actually have to leave home like a year ago. Because when people say this, like, you know, I have, like, I don't want to leave home and my home is bunny, or like when the state media announced that or, you know, people buying their own home. And to be honest, I didn't really have much of the personal attachment to it before when people are talking about this, but this after this group, a lot of us have to leave home even though we are living in the same country in the same town, we just cannot live at our home. So we just have to move around from different safe houses. And a lot of my friends have to leave home to the jungle, and, and fighting. And a lot of my friends have to leave home to the foreign country. And a lot of the people that I know in the past they have to they've been relocated, they lost their home buying the airstrikes or by different conflict so so yeah, for me, like the topic is so Yeah, whenever the word home it calm. It's very difficult for me, I've been controlling now because this is just the beginning. But like, whatever, it's a home. It's really something that is a sense of belonging. And we want to go back and I, a lot of my friends wanted to go back, like every conversation that we have. And we are fighting this now because it just we just wanted to go home, and even people abroad who are applying for the asylum status and everything. All they were saying is are we in our conversation is all about home, we want to go home and a lot of people continue to hold on to the diamond status, Burmese citizenship, even though the We the country kicked us out, because we have that common goal that we want to go home. So that's the topic is always a you know, somehow resonate among me and my friends and broader by people I work with. Yeah, I'm gonna stop here.

Zoe Wild  17:06

But well, as you just pointed out, theory, you're all here because of circumstances that forced you to leave Myanmar. But home is this concept that is complex, and illusory and means so much to so many people and different things to so many people? Is it land? Is it landscape? Is it familiar plants and animals? Is it familiar faces and culture? A curry said something beautiful. Last time we spoke that home is never needing a map. You know? And is it? Is it the food? Is it the values the religion? The art? Is it um, you know, we work with indigenous cultures where it's like the place where your placenta is buried? Or where many, many ancestors and generations have lived and their stories that are passed down from generation? Or is it is it a place that we belong and can be moved from location? A country is really a concept that with the lines that were drawn by other people, it's not a real thing. And yet, when people are forced to leave their country, there's so much pain. So we just love to hear from anyone who feels called to speak about what home is to, you know, theories just shared a little bit about that for her but from some of the other voices. And a thought has also said in the past and thinks so beautiful about how home, you can miss a home that you've never been to.

Eh Nay Thaw  18:44

I guess I've jumped pain. Yeah, I mean, the concept of home itself is quite complex. And even to me, I still don't have the definition for home. But when I think of the term home, often or social, I associate myself with a land that I grew up never having lived there since I left when I was two years old due to armed conflict due to the fighting between the military junta and the Korean National Liberation Army. And so as a Korean who live in the territory held by the can you we often face military campaign military offensive, and in fact the military have carried out a scorched earth campaign against the current and other minority groups across the border. Right. And so Wars was a common a common things and so when I was two years old, we have to flee to Thailand and have lived in Thailand for For most of my childhood and because we live in a refugee camp, there are enough there are never enough talking about food times talking about things that I believe every children, woman's men have the rights to for instant basic food security, we don't have that basic health, basic utility, we don't have any of that so so the times where we're sitting on the kitchen table and mom would tell a story about you know, in Corfu, lay the current state which recaulk hopefully, me means land without evil and cause delay. You know, if you want to eat this vegetables, you just go to the backyard and pick it up. If you wanted to go eat fish, you just go to the stream and harvest it from there. If you want to pick a fruit you just walk a few meters from you and pick it up for the trees and to me that was truly like the heaven and that's because we were in desperate situation we were in refugee camp so when I imagine home I imagined the jungle where right where theory say some folks freeform urban city to the jungle to me the jungle the mountain was my home. And that highly tied to the Koran we'll call a second your poor, the current density. You may heard the Korean Korean term for others but to me the truest attentive to identity of Kenya poor little translate to children, or descendant of simplicity, or minimalistic, which is really interesting. For like language perspective, we, you see, human we call human people as the same as current que the term called can yopu. So to me, that term is quite fascinated and how we live our life, especially the current folks that live across the Thai Burma border, you know, the called the hill tribe in the Thailand side, right. And so yeah, to me, when I say go home, I think about waking up super early in the morning here in bird chirping rooster. And pigs and chickens and whatnot. And to me home, which is a place where we got full of nature's and also a place where I don't have to explain the language that speak the customer that practice. For instance, when guests come to our house, our responsibility is to treat them with a full stomach. And that's something that we'll have to explain to others. Right. And when I go to someone's place, that is something that is expected. Right? And so, yeah, things that I don't have to explain to others about my language work came from the customer that practice, you know, so that's, to me a concept of home and still I can explore this concept called call call home. And I still don't have the full answer to it.

Zoe Wild  22:59

Thank you so much. That reminds me of something in one of Coco's at poems or something he wrote an essay about home is not only where we belong, but we're visible.

23:11

Oh, yes. First of all like to comment on what he said earlier about exile, right. Salman Rushdie, the famous Indian writers, Rushdie, Salman Rushdie wrote that exile is the dream of return. So yeah. And I've seen in the UK money, police exiles who have been in exile since the 1960s. Since the you know, 60s, and they, they, they told me, We are here for like, every five year, we have to renew our, our dream of return, we keep renewing that we don't really want to. We said we keep telling us that we don't want to remain in the UK, but we are stuck in the UK since the 60s. Yeah, so So I think it's exile is really the dream of return and many people in private practice are unable to return home right. That's one thing I like to add. And another thing about the concept of home when Host asked me about the what I have in mind about home, I emailed him an extract from my forthcoming essay, which I can read you know for me home as a territory as property or land home as a place where once placenta was buried, home within the parameters of religion, identity or sovereignty, home a space where one is not only comfortable but visible home as a place of family and friends home for one's favorite food and flavors, home as terra firma or body of water in which one wants to be worried, and most importantly, home as a nation. No matter how I define home, I realized that after an absence for far too long, not necessarily in exam. That's another question. I'm not an exile, home remains elusive and illusory for me. So what is home to me is for a poetic language at home. I write in Burmese and English and Burmese is my home language. And English is my second home home language. So yes, that's what I want to see about home. And as for the notion of exile, I think no one can exile. Anyone from language, right?

Zoe Wild  25:40

That's right, though, in our in the US. You know, the government tries to obliterate languages just for that reason. Can you speak a little bit more to this difference? You see, you said you're not an exile?

25:53

Um, yeah. Okay. I don't consider myself an exile. I already returned to Nima. Several times I lived in the guy. I, you know, in 2017. So guy, the city of Surrey, I know the area of Syria, I lived there two and 17 and 18. So, I do not consider myself an exile, because exile the word is out denotes activism, and political activism and opposition against a regime. And you know, so I am not a campaigner. I'm not not an activist. I'm just a poet. So I'm not an exotic. And that's in that sense. Yes.

Zoe Wild  26:35

Well, that may lead us to a curry.

26:38

I think everyone was answering what what home means to them? Yeah, you know, strangely enough, it's the it's the topic of discussion, but it's the thing that I really can't, can't put my finger on what what home means to me. I mean, I missed the land.

Zoe Wild  26:56

And cocoate That was just mentioning that he doesn't feel like an exile because he's not he was not involved in political opposition to the government. So I thought you might have a different perspective. From your own experience. I think maybe we've lost you again.

27:18

Hello, sorry. I, I just Yeah, I just came back. So for me, I think home is just a bit about the, I don't know, just just the land and all the common sites. And

Zoe Wild  27:37

since acre is cutting out a lot, let's go to someone else. And we'll come back to you agree. Host. Did you have a next question?

Host  27:45

Yeah, I'd like to ask Simon the next question. And when we're on this topic of, of looking at home, and for some people, the last two years for the Myanmar community, especially the last two years have really developed and acute loss of home and the familiar area. And yet for ethnic people, this is something that they've seen the devastation and loss of home and the uncertainty of being able to claim home due to the incursions of the Burmese military, the tatmadaw, and Simon being from Chimp, the chimp, part of the country, Qin communities, I wonder if you can speak something about how you have come to regard home in Qin communities, where there really has not been safety or security, or even any kind of comfort of being able to, to live as you like, for generations. And so how would you describe the sense of home in Qin communities growing up and from your own perspective, the the the home the sense of home that was created in in those native communities? And then how was that sense of home threatened or damaged by the military presence?

29:08

Thank you so much. You're so yeah, I just would like to stay started with one good home is where one start from so home is something that is very unique, and I will say that this is something a sale, I will say in the political term, like sell that we have gathered together, a small group, and one small group gathered together and then we build a community. And then one community builds another and then there's what we call a nation. So whom is something where we start, and there is a very important that like theory have said who maybe a physical or even in is in like sense of a you know, not belonging, and then there's attachment. And some some some someone may not be saying that you're not aware of when we say at home, they may not be specific to the land because let's say someone who live in Oregon, maybe they They're in like five floors of the building. And he may, or she may not be really capable of something. But as a chin, pupil and as a chin. PERSON When I was, when I say about home, I think it's very important at home, the home is where we start to learn, I will say the home is where we educated, or school, where we school, for every life, you know, not only the educating, but also lifestyle and all and this is where we learn our own language. This is where we learn to this is where we start to learn about how to love and how to respect each other to our siblings, our parents. And this is where something is very important to be, you know, starting this is something that our life our journey start, I hope in this world. No, I think we, in some point, we all may have a home that we we start our life, our life started, I will say that. So in chin four, way back of 70 years. Yeah, like what we have saying that the languages are very important in the literature, because this is where our identities, if I say if I'm going to say that I'm chained and strongly people can ask me what language do you speak? And then they will say that I will say, Yeah, I speak this language. And they will ask, is it do you have any other question for that? So this is something that very common questions that people would ask me, either I say about my identity, but in Chin State, after you know, independence from British, and then coming to this Myanmar, one, the union Burma is for, and then, especially after military, this now when from the era of knowing the Czech people, we are not able to practice our only tradition, one language, we have our people, we went to the school, but in the school we are not, we don't have right to, you know, have our own language, our own literature, these are burdened from national, through the government, I will say that is like a very strategic plan to eradicate all language. But we chimp people start to learn our literature's and then our language throughout their Sunday school, from religion perspective. And then chainstays were very peaceful and mounting. And then we have a huge difference. And then our daily lives used to be like all our former, they will go every morning, they woke up, they went to, you know, their own farm, and then bringing all firewood and coming back. It used to be very peaceful, and it's a very natural way that we used to leave. But after 2021 This coup happened, none of us, you know, that all the security and all the safety that you wish to hold and all the peaceful minor without like, bubbling of ice we lost. And now we are really afraid even to go to forest because if something happened, or landmine or if there is some, you know, if there's some fight between happen, how can happen so everyone can safety and safety. And then even chain is a very multi engineers. And then this is the military also have you strategically have abandoned and we don't have proper transportation and communication until 2016. Before most of the place in Tuesday, do we have to travel by foot. And then I will say Chin's days where I think if I, you know is larger than the world, I will say because the world from Myanmar even would like to travel to us, maybe it will can take time for hours, not that day. It's like seven hour, eight hour, 10 hours, something like that. But inches, then we need to travel at least seven days to walk one to one, because we don't have proper transportation. So I just would like to end the home that we suppose I will say that the home is where we start. And the home is where we start to learn our society cultures, socials and all religions. This is something that very important to maintain. And then I think this is something we can say maybe then it can be physical, but also is like emotionally that attachment that I will say thank you.

Host  34:31

Thank you for that, Simon. And to follow up. When we're looking at this loss of home about that, that has taken place since the coup. One of the things that this panel has been doing both this panel and the previous panel has been to as well as some of our overall efforts has been to try to fundraise and to bring in funds to be able to support these refugee schools and projects that are happening In a museum, and this is something interesting to look at in Tibet understand, but this is also very sadly and tragically, the need to have to provide a sense of education and familiarity to all of these Shin children who have now lost their home and are just the sense of education is not just a purpose of being able to, to give schooling, which is, of course important, but it also has the added benefit of familiarity of routine community of something like that. And so I think this is a really good chance to follow up with you and check in and learn more about what's been happening in these camps that you've been supporting and overseen. What is the situation with these 1000s of Syrian refugees and Qin children, especially, that have completely lost their home? And what are you seeing in the camps? What are you seeing about the loss of home there, and perhaps you can describe something about the education program and project as well that this fundraising is going towards?

36:02

Thank you so much. Yeah, going back to the counts, yes, of course, this is the game is something that they, they you want it to be stay here, or this is something that they have destinate Of course not, this is something temporary, and then our call with again, they excel here just for temporarily safety, and then the people elements around the chain people, not none of us like to stay here for forever. But of course, if it ever does, we have a good chance that we will all want to go back to our own home, and our own place and settled back there. But this currently does become a very challenge. And then when we come to India, we don't like it's not like, you know, these are not like traveling isn't like shifting one place to another place, this is something that we run for our safety, because of that we don't bring any belong to us, we come here with zero. But when we arrived here in the border, and then the people realize that as I have said a while ago, even we're all wired in that way but we are not allowed to study are allowed to run our own literature in the school government setting. So we just to set up our own way of adapting and a way of learning for our own literature and, and to keep it up that the sense when we come here also, we feel that we need that to do something for our children and our children. So last year, and then, of course, we Mizo and the chain we are you know, speaking of historically, we are brother, and the most of our language are similar, or our dresses are similar, even our foods are kind of similar. But in terms of culture, we are belonging to Myanmar, and they belong to India. In that sense, we have kind of a little bit, you know, difference of this culture, but then our children have to adapt for that as well. And in some point, they don't, they have a language barrier. And then now what we have done is that we try to, you know, talk with each of stakeholder or community leader or host leader in that particular area. And then last to last two years, we have shared the school with with them but not in that zap, but we extend with a bamboo and they're using of this toppling, and then our children are good, they don't have table where they they can see it. They don't have a DAX where they can ride. Just imagine a five years old kid sitting on the floor. That is, you know, we don't have any you know, even we don't have how they call this just the floor I mean the crown literally the crown sitting on there. And then they just start earning to write on on the tight just sitting without any helps support for written that's become very challenged for them. But another way to say that they don't want to give up even though they are very young guys, you know, just five years old, but they feel in the sense that how this military or Pluto, how this military route they don't want to give up so we even though they don't complain at all, they just can't who was supposed to be you know, playing but they were they were very mindful that they come to school. And then all the teachers are CDM who CDI mean civil disobedience movement who chant in this revolution and they are a teacher, they come here and the teachers start to teach them and then we are using a call to Myanmar syllabus, but also some little bit of Indian sight because we are in India in this era. And then also we are trying to you know Make sure that they also they should not be forgetting of Burmese. So we also put specially for one Burmese class, and the rest will be English and our own language. But there are many challenges are there as I said, the parents have no income, they themselves become victim and refugee zero income, other squatting of the arcade is not easy. And then the board of core Refugee Board, they are just there just to support them, but they don't also have any incomes or any source of funding. So they are just voluntarily chairing the board or Refugee Board. They are just there just to respond that but and just to finish at I just want to say one word that yeah, right now with the circumstances are very challenged, but the people of Myanmar or the people of Qin, we don't give up, we are trying our very best event on this worst scenario, the condition. But if you can help us more than that we can sustain and we can do something better for our people for our future. Because the young generation, these kids are our future hopes and our future leaders of our country. And we really need to support them, and we really need to help them. Thank you so much.

Host  41:19

Thank you so much for sharing that. I think we have a curry back with a good internet connection. So

Zoe Wild  41:25

before before we go to agree. Anyone who would like to contribute, you can do that at one light global.org forward slash Myanmar. We're building nine schools, and providing school supplies and providing 10 teachers with salaries. So anyone who wants to do that I put the link in the chat and for anyone watching after it's www dot one light global.org forward slash Myanmar. And that's a joint project of better Burma and when like global thanks.

Host  42:01

Thank you for that. Yes, and everything is definitely appreciated that can go towards this project of the schools that Simon has just described. Moving next to a curry who I think is back with a more stable connection. I think as we're looking at this process of having to flee home, of course, when we're checking in with, with those ethnic minorities. The this loss of home has been continual, and something that they've been facing for generations tragically. AKA, you mentioned that that Yangon was your home Myanmar was your home and you found yourself in really a situation of acute danger and really terror that made you realize that you had to urgently flee for your own physical safety. And so this loss of home for you came quite sudden, maybe not unpredictable, given what was happening, but sudden and very scary. So I wonder if you can share with us as far as what a safe what you were doing at the time to support? I believe it was the Civil Disobedience movement, and what dangers you found yourself in that precipitated the need to have to urgently flee?

43:14

Sure. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, as you said, I mean, I didn't, I didn't leave because I had to, in the sense that it wasn't like, there was a 5058 out for me. So, you know, it would be that, you know, during the day, I would spend my time coordinating. Like, in the beginning, I used to go out protesting a lot. And then realizing we need to just change strategies quickly, because protests alone weren't going to cut it. So I started coordinating a lot of CDM support activities, you know, planning different fundraising campaigns, and a lot of zoom calls with CRP, H at the time, going around picking up and delivering cash to be sent to CDN, people like passing out flyers on the street during the day. And at night, I would be awake, preparing myself mentally, for what life inside insane might be like, you know, and like, how would I survive the torture or the rape and what I break if I got tortured, and if I got tortured, whose names should I give, like were people who have left the country or who were already arrested? Like, you know, and that took a huge toll on me. And it was also just, I was really scared because I had a lot of close calls. So like, my neighbor was shot in front of me. Sorry. So it was just a lot of psychological trauma that was really hard to live with and just wondering every day, you know, like, am I going to be next? Is there going to be a knock on my door and like, what do I do with the soldiers come? So it was really difficult, um, and I think that's really why like, I wanted to leave like, after like going out in the street, having my neighbor shot, kind of drive him to the hospital. Um, Luckily, an ambulance pulled up, just as they were about to load his body. And I'm like, if I had driven him to the hospital that day, I don't think I would be here. So a lot of like running around having a lot of like close calls with soldiers were like, at the end of the day, like, you know, there was so much adrenaline, but at the end of the day, I'd be like, wow, like, if one thing had gone wrong, I wouldn't be here today. You know, so, it was just a lot of psychological trauma. And it was a lot of burden. So I really felt like I had, I had to leave for my own physical safety, but also, you know, for my own psychological safety. It's like, you know, I was like a nutcase. And I just feel, and I have a lot of guilt for leaving, too. And I feel like, there's a lot of young people who like me, who could leave who had the means to leave, you know, they left, and there's a huge brain drain that's going to further impact the development of the country, and it's just really sad. And I feel so fortunate to be out. And I feel like, the fact that I can even be sad about missing home is a privilege, you know, that a lot of people don't even have and, and I remind myself that, at least, you know, it's not like my, my home got, like, shelled or torched. And I'm not like, you know, my sibling, or my child just died. And I'm carrying all my belongings on my back and running through jungles, you know, I left comfortably on flight. Like, I was so scared until the flight took off. But still, you know, I keep reminding myself of, of how how fortunate I am. So, yeah, I guess. Yeah. So that's really the reason why I left I don't have to leave sometimes I think of going back, like joining PDF along the border, but I don't think I would be very useful with a gun. And my fear of bugs in the jungle. So I don't think that's really a good a good option for me. So, yeah.

Host  47:08

Right. And as you had to flee out of this urgent sense of danger, I wonder if you can also share here, something you shared, before this meeting, when we were all getting together and talking you were, and this also relates to what Coco that was saying about these generations of exiles and that you had mentioned something about the ADA generation having to resettle outside of the country, what they thought was temporarily as they look to come back in and and I wonder if you can take off from there and share your reflection on that.

47:42

Right, yeah. So um, so after, of course, you know, after I safely out and states, I continued working, and I connected with people who were from the ADA generation who had left because of ADA, and then had to settle down here and built, you know, new lives, and they're very successful and happy, and they're all back, rallying the Burmese people in their communities to support the resistance from abroad. And while I was working with them, and learning their stories, I realized that, you know, that might be mean 20 years, like decades later, still so far from home, having to settle in a foreign land with children who will never know what Myanmar is, or speak Burmese and, and it just makes me really sad and worried about how long am I going to be stuck here? And is that going to be my story? And will I lose? My identity is I tried to simulate here. And actually, I was so homesick. So I always try to find like Burmese restaurants or Burmese grocery store. And I met a Rohingya man who was there and he's been away for for more than a decade. This is, you know, long before the coup and was telling him how sorry, I was for the persecution that they've they've faced. And he told me, he's like, no matter how many Greek curries I make, no matter how many Greek curves that get to eat here, I still miss home. You know, and I could barely stop myself from crying. So yeah, I'm just very worried that that's going to be my my feet as well. And I hope that we can go home soon

Zoe Wild  49:20

as you speak a creates a really, it's like in my mind that I'm just flashing over and over so many different people that I've met in the last seven years and eight years at one light from Syria, from South Sudan, from Ethiopia from all over the world, and how this similar ache and I'm curious if this experience, how it's impacted your view of the global refugee crisis, and if anyone can answer hear that. But I agree if you had a sense if there was a change if there was some feeling of that was different, having now experienced that yourself.

50:12

Yeah, I think that it's similar to what what the reset in that, you know, while she was working directly with people who lost their homes, but usually, you you hear about it and you, obviously, you know, I sympathize with them. And I'm wondering, you know, I can't imagine the conditions that would make them make the leap. And but now having experienced it firsthand, like all those doubts about you, because, you know, sometimes I did have doubts, like, maybe it's like, maybe you don't need to be, you know, you didn't need to leave, but you just left because you thought that life was better elsewhere. And, and it's actually you know, that there are people who are in far worse situations, or whatever, you know, I mean, I did honestly have some doubts, but I think now experiencing firsthand I definitely sympathize, like, empathize a lot more. And yeah, I guess that's really, really how it's changed for me is that I've walked a mile in their shoes, so to speak, and I just, yeah, I understand that, that longing for home that we're not they're not here just because you want to be but maybe because they have to be, you know, and then every, we all want want to go home? Some point?

Zoe Wild  51:37

Yeah, when I was in Serbia, working with refugees living in a train station, I mentioned this to you before someone wrote on the wall, no one leaves home unless home is the mouth of a shark. I'm curious if Coco dead or any thaw having been in a sense, refugees, or no, we're not using the word exhale, but having been away from home for so much longer. Then some of these others if you have some words for them?

52:13

Well, I, I wrote a poem called a survival guide for desires, right. So it might be quite useful for many of us. I mean, first off, I'd like to clarify, though, that once he said that I do not oppose the government is not the government. I oppose tyranny in all form, right. So as a poet, I oppose the junta the Burmese winter, and I oppose the tyranny. I oppose tyranny in all form, and I think there is tyranny in the resistance as well. And they still need within me as well. So I oppose all kinds of tyranny. So that that's one thing that I just want to make clear, right? So I'm in opposition, against the tyranny of Assad. That's one thing. Another thing is the notion of identity as home is a very complex question. For me. TV was saying earlier, she started traveling around 20 And then there is no attachment to please, you know, for her at home, for me, it's even more complicated because I was born in Rangoon, but my parents moved around a lot. So I was raised in Shan state. So my most important years I was in Shan state. So I was at Burma in Shan State. And when I returned, and then when I University, yes, when I returned to Yangon, I was a shin in Burma, Burma region, right. So my identity is complex. So, so home as identity for me is unclear as well. This is why I can I cannot, I can sympathize with people who have a ground to hold on to which you know, which is which is very nice. For me, there's no ground to hold on to as identity. But anyway, about exile, I would like to just read this survival guide for exiles, one of the one of the poems that will be published in Daedalus Channel A Survival Guide for exiles. For the sake of your health. Get the hell out of bed first thing in the morning, before tuning into news and gossip from your homeland. Don't collect anything you cannot carry with you. Be prepared for life on the move. Don't expect your hosts to have ever heard of your country's name. Don't expect them to be responsible for your well being. Expect them to give you a family name. Just just as a second For God is a life for humans. Your one year in exile may translate into a lifetime in your homeland. Don't burden yourself with the weight of the world. For some people excel means business, war and Pandemic mean business. Do not associate with these aisles who will add more walls to your bands, be them compatriots or foreigners. Your nation state you have claimed to make go up in smoke overnight. The nation within you, no one can destroy. Don't be a trauma clown, analyzed and anonymized by anthropologists turn into a feature film by filmmakers, for your suffering, co Written and edited by privileged white writers whose lives have nothing in common with us. Tell your story in your own chosen form. revolution will not be less perfect without you. Don't look too far. Even the Mother Earth has her own fever, her own two car. Don't look back. When you left, it was spring. Today, it might as well be a cold dark with a winter. Thank you.

Zoe Wild  56:22

Thank you. I'm curious if any of the other participants I see them posting hearts. We'd like to respond to that,

Eh Nay Thaw  56:30

that Koko said that was really touching. And the in fact, it is the survival guide for an exile. I agree with you. Yes, when I reflect on my experience, and this concept of home, as somebody who never really, truly lived in my motherland. There is a true login for returning and lead. The main reason is that when we live in a refugee camp, that's not a home refugee camp is not a home. It's a actually they call it temporary camp. And because it is temporary camp, there is some sort of desire to either force us to move somewhere else or to return somewhere else or in what could put it be prepared to move. So my family, especially my mother, somewhat conditioned us trainers to return back to the motherland and to return so we can live the way we want it to live as a free man walking on Earth. And part of that is it wasn't evolved, going to school, become an educated be the teachers or engineer, he was simply to be a farmer. I have met so many farmers in my life who are genuinely happy with their life. I have met so many have walked so many who, as somebody who live in developed countries, I look at these individuals, living minimally are the most genuine and happiest people I've met. Whereas I've met so many people rich, well established, have massive resources, networking, whatnot, or I see them I see that person is not as happy as the person I met. As the former that I met. In the, in the current state I've been to Shan state, or in pain, all these folks are genuinely happy just be a farmer. So to me, having been having been in a refugee camp was that was the concept of home was simply be a formula and to live to care for my family and to care for my mom when she gets older, my dad, and that was how it was conditioned and trained to return back to our home. Right. Coming to the United States was never part of the calculations was never part of the Prepare process. It had been or it had been all descended where we weren't prepared to come to the United States, right? Because we're not options, returning back to our motherland. It's not a safe alternative. In fact, going back to there may contribute to the to the ever conflict that continued exaggerate today by those that take up arms and go out because of vengeance or wanted to, quote unquote pay back for what the perpetrator have done to them. And so in my case, when coming to the United State, number one was not part of the The intendant goes but move it in here. We weren't prepared for it. But yes, we have to make this place our home because we have no other alternative. And so when I came to here, there was a new renewed hope, a new hope for somebody else that open to me, my family that was never granted or given to us prior to move to here. And as refugees, you do not have any rights as human being, you cannot protect your political ideologies. You cannot practice your, your freedom of speech, you there are so many things that as a human being you have basic rights that you do not have live in refugee camp. And so for me when I came to the United States, the longer I live here, the more I love to return home. And I think that contributed to my intellectual curiosity, of minimal minimalism, simplicity. And especially in a global world, well, we're facing extreme environment, right due to human human actions that contributes to the destruction of the holy place we'll call home. And then when I reflect on the current identity, and especially those that live in the jungles, or the mountains, delivering very minimally, and they are happy with it, and that itself, the more I learned about the world, and how things are moving around the world, I want to be in to live amongst those that live in the mountains, that practice simplicity, minimalism, and also live day to day where they rely on the earth. They depend on the earth and the soil everyday, and speak to and when Dr. Simon was mentioned in that we have to walk everywhere we go. And to me, there was another concept of home, where we don't we do not rely on motor transportation, right? What we have on our body is what is given to us to us, is that's what that is what is granted to us. And we utilize that to the most capacity. And to me, that's a healthy concept of home where we realize very little of modern technology, but on those ourselves, our community and the animals. We are, we're and to me, that concept, I log for it, I yearn for it, and I want to return to that, if I cannot return because I'm not consider a citizen of that state. I'll make it happen here in this place, and tried to live to the best of my capacity taught and showed by those that live there. The words were used to call home.

1:02:55

Yeah, I just want to add on google.com And I think it's very beautiful. All his poems are and especially they get you know, the gateways I first of all, I don't I also don't consider myself as an exile because like he said, like we chose to leave home it's not that we have in a way Yeah, it's indirectly falls in US out of home because if it is a normal situation, we don't need to leave but but not know it's my I still have a TRICARE I get on the plane and I had a I had a choice not to leave the country and I still have a choice to still go back because I still have a passport I still have no I have a means to go back but I just don't know if it is safe enough to go back so so it's um you know, it's a privilege for us like he was saying then we are talking about this now because we are still alive. And we still have home that we can go back to and we still have a sense of belonging we have a community or identity whatever the home is, like we have been defining home into into different ways. And if we take a good dad's definition of home like language we still carry we still speak by me so home is not missing that it's still there. It's with us we have been carrying home with us so so about about the survivor, you know, living as an exiles and everything so I want I don't consider myself as an exile. But I consider everything as a temporary for now because I've been talking to my friends yesterday. I don't take the name of my friends who are my family's friends who are abroad. When they give me their phone numbers. I don't put it in my phone as with the name because in my mind, it doesn't come into realization that oh, this will be forever. It just oh now there, it just for temporary and they're going to change the number we're going to go back to the country. I'm going to just be just be doing doing that so it's and also whenever was a home i It's in a way that we run into sites I okay all the great place all the beautiful that that but actually I come from younger it's not that beautiful it's not it's it's a crappy little town at city actually you know the wine vs the buses would go into different directions and I even make jokes that we have a million ways to dine in Yamaha with the you know because of the warfare because of the you know the raining season one the the power the the electric wires into the flood and then you can get an electric shock or like you can dying from that too much chemical things like chemical fruits and everything and the food quality is not that good and like the street food that we were talking about food I love them but they're not really hygienic but like that was part of it when we say home like when I don't I don't want to be like oh you know the home is just so great we want to go back actually no it's not that great but we just like to go back to that I just at least for me I just like to go back to that little crappy not little like crappy busy jungle where a lot of things rats are running around but that's the home that that I want to go back where but not alone you know even the thing is I can always go back home alone but it won't be the same because my friends are now there and the people that I the family phases the people that I usually see are not there so when I mean going home I really want to go home but not alone because the celebration or whatever just the happiness or it's not just to be alone because it now I'm free at least in different way and I'm safe but it's not just for me alone because I want to do it together. So I'm the Interim of the harmony My sense is also that includes a sense of togetherness we want to do it together maybe home is not the past maybe we don't need to return to the home in the past maybe we have different definition we're from different background all of us and we've been defining home in a different way and also this is a I think this is a time maybe home is the future that we want to build because this is a time we can include like especially like DS for we don't want to talk about home we want to go back to the land and something some do spore may not be part of this so we really want the sport I really want your sport also to redefine home and we want maybe this is a place we redefine home maybe home may not be physical place may not be a belonging may not be a language may not be identity. It may be something so it's very interesting to learn all of all of the things but but but my point is this you know the the there's a chance I don't I don't really I miss home like the physical home but at the same time I don't quite miss home because everywhere I make everywhere I go I make home and in way I have a community I make friends and so I I barely feel lonely. Yeah, of course I miss food and everything but I can I can manage it. I can manage it well so yeah, I like cocoa does I really I really agree that we're not they were not that tragic. I don't remember the the exact word like we're not a trauma puppet and something and that's not how I want people I keep saying that's not how I want our friends abroad to remember us we are living and we are when we're talking about home and something not to being seen as some kind of victim who are missing home and who needs to go home and help them and little human being that's not that's not the point the point is more about that we determine to go home with our own effort but we want people to understand and also like I've been also telling other people either inside the country or outside we have a lot of us has a survivor's guilt and I really like cocoa that words uh you know just the the end of the poor so which is very similar to what I usually told my friends I hey you know the world will go on with or without you with or without us we are nobody but it is better because of you because of your existence. So you know, we are gonna go home, every one of us maybe physical home or sense of belonging or whatever we can we it's maybe the future that we need to build. That's, that's what I want to say.

1:09:51

We also just would like to add a little bit more please. So yeah, today we are music calm and then as we all have said this is not something that we want that is something that we have chosen is like, I feel like giving an example that the home is something we call the family. We have our parents, father, mother, and then brother, a sibling was supposed to be harmony, or we should supposed to be respecting each other and building that small society to become very good. So the environment, whether good or bad, this is the choice of the family and the father get over drunk, always beating to the mother, I don't think that that family will become a very sweet family. That is not something where we will all want to live. And today, even this military, like Yeah, while ago could have already said, the way that they treated to the people of Myanmar is like an inhuman. I mean, it's like, unimaginable, the now we are dying. We are you know, a lot of young people and a lot of, you know, even to the military side, or even to our side, but I actually those who are dying our brother and sister, no matter what, we are still Myanmar, we still in that trance, and why we have to be fighting, why we have to be killing each other, we have to be, you know, blaming each other instead of coming together and doing something good. But, of course, this military never want to surrender and never want to say a word of sorry. That's this is the harsh things that we're facing right now. And then yeah, they have said, we wanted to go home, but sufficiently not just myself for safety, maybe they wanted to go alone, maybe even we do some favor, ordering something to the good, the favor of the military, that maybe we may able to go right now safely, because they were letting us to enter. But that is why we don't want to go before we are not safe, why the military will always oppose whoever say something not good to them, they want to be calm, they always say even, you know they are being brainwashed that they are the saver. I mean, they are like the savior of Myanmar since ever, it was not really true actually. And then they have to identify and they have to now understand that they're no longer needed by Myanmar people, the people of Myanmar we don't need that we don't like them is like even a parent, maybe the father have authority to say something to the children. Also, the father also have right to listen to children, the voice of children's sometime, not whatever he say may not be true. So sometimes the children the kid may also say something as feeling inside feeling that that's the really good thing for the family. But now the people Myanmar saying that we don't want this dictatorship, we don't want to be ruled by somebody for the shape of the family. We are you know, we want our justice, we want our freedom. And then we want to leave hormonally and then the people Myanmar whether from not from east from west to but our we are a brother, we are not enemy. Actually, we can live permanently and we can help each other. In that way. I don't think that today, we won't be able to come and sit here and talking about missing home or longing on phone. Because why we're saying this because if it if the Myanmar were safe in our home town was safe, that I don't think that we'll miss home because ever we miss we may go home anytime. As long as we wills, so I don't want to go home. But today, even though we wanted to go home so much, but we have no choice to return. Because ever we return. And if our life isn't end there, then who will speak on behalf of us. Today we're speaking for ourselves, and then for our people, but those who are speaking today every day are being captured. Of course, they will be tortured, they will be killed, and the voice will be dismissed from this earth. And the walls may continue like we have said at the interplant kogatende have said we are nobody but we can do somebody for our people. So today we are here. I mean, yeah, we really this whole doesn't mean literally or like something but what we are saying we are we are trying to portray that we have no right to go home. This is the problem. We have no choice. The minority didn't give us any choice. So we need to come together and then find solutions and then so that we all can go home one day, and then celebrate the victory and then practice our right foot right and our freedom I think thank you so much.

Zoe Wild  1:14:50

Well, Simon, thank you for sharing that. As you've all been talking I am remembering my time in Myanmar. I lived there from 2006 2008 It changed my life, because there's this very unique culture and taste and flavor to Myanmar, the experience of being there was so different from anything that I've experienced in my travels and life prior to that. And when I think of it, I'm thinking of the sun, and the smells and the people and the kindness and the, the way of being, and those tiny chairs, and hearing God, I saw in the in the chat that, um, and I thought I was saying, you know, before he dies in a foreign land, he hopes that we can all join a table together to enjoy poor golf scores on the streets of Yangon. And, and as you were all speaking, it occurred to me that, you know, if if home is also people, and this community, as I think it was, theory was saying, you know, I don't want to go home, if I go home alone, right, I want other people there. But I also I can have all those people in another country, and that still doesn't feel like home. So there's this combination of place and people. But that as you're all forced out into the world, each of you does carry a piece of Myanmar, like that ineffable thing, whatever it is that we can't put our finger on. And you know, and I thought was speaking so beautifully to wanting to go back, and to remember, you know, this to live in this simple way. And to farm. And if if he can't go back, you know, Can we can we bring that here? Can? Can it be a little taste that you're carrying out into the world of Myanmar? And so I was thinking about that. And I was wondering also, from things all of you have said, what are the things that you did carry? You know, you've spoken of, there's so little that you can bring when you leave? And I think many people here, you know, and right now in the US, there's these massive floods and fires. And I think it's a it's a thought that people have now what would I bring if I had to leave my home? And I'm curious, what what do you carry? Please go ahead, Coco.

1:17:35

Yes. So we talked about her experience in Savio, where there was a graffiti writing, you know, the news of a shark, which is a very vivid imagery. One home becomes the news of a shark. One has to leave. And I think, excuse me, I think one shouldn't feel guilty about leaving, you know, home, one home gets extremely hostile, right. Yeah, yes. Well, I have to say, save oneself, to begin with to be able to save others. So I think I would like to also advise my compatriots that don't feel so much guilty for leaving, you know, the host I learned and that's one thing, another thing is home as equal, that really, really worries me these days, ecosystem. You know, I like to share a tragic site that I experienced when I was living in the guy, right. So one day I walked out on my garden in the guy, and I saw a chameleon, the reptile, a chameleon. On her return from her daily for each, she was running up to her nest onto a mango tree, which is my garden. So, but she was running up a mango tree, but the mango tree didn't exist exist anymore. It's only a stub of a mango tree because that morning my landlady failed the mango tree. Because my neighbor complained that the sap from the mango tree was dropping onto his car over the fans. Okay, but Neva happens to be a Burmese Buddhist and my landlady is a Muslim matriarch so that they didn't get along. So the lady had to oblige and, and polar did that means that cut the mango tree. So it was a very tragic thing to see that a chameleon running up a stub of a tree looking up at the sky, where you know, her nest should have been right. She was completely startled. And then chameleons change color when we're faced with danger or when they are faced with different they they respond to, you know, their emotions by showing different colors. So he was just showing different array of emotions. By showing different colors like black, blue and all that, you know, I got really simple advice at that point how confused or shell shocked that chameleon must have been? And so for people to return home, if the home becomes the stub of a tree, what do firstly? Yeah, that's a question.

Zoe Wild  1:20:23

Would anyone else like to speak to that? That's such a heartbreaking image. I'm finding myself having to stop myself from tears about what

1:20:33

I bring from home is that I lost my baggage on the way to the US. So with the snow strong, I never got it back. So my mom tote bags and I don't know if you little here and thing here and there. I brought it. But but then because of that, I lost them. And I just me too, so I lost them. And so I don't really have much so I don't that's the lesson. Okay. I shouldn't attach to anything because things can get lost and usually ever. It's not staple. You know, I've never been nobody can ever I can get lost. I never really get back. But there's one thing make sure they had it. It's Srei wha through us. So they went no, that threw us up. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people know. I asked your bicep. Yeah, is my my stress release soap. So I used to have it. I just brought it I like to smell it. And it's in Washington. So it's very cheap in Washington so you can get it in any random grocery store but it's not sure why brand because why is the military brands why it stopped supporting but it's another kind of smell like true ah, and a lot of it a lot of people may know it's Washington so last thing that I brought from from home the other day I lost it and I'm just like, okay, whatever maybe one day I will see it but I don't know it just I lost I don't even remember what did I even lose in that package? But yeah, I have I still have she was up Yeah.

Eh Nay Thaw  1:22:07

Speak sure surely of that. So yes, when my family we fled our home and resettle in, then live in Tommy refugee camp and eventually moved the years, we lost a few things. But when I went back to Burma for the first time, after some 12 years, never be back. I went back and one things I learned for the people of Myanmar and all other ethnic groups is that they always smile. Right on, there's always a smile on their face. And so when I came back, I always smiled. But when I went back to Burma, that reinforced also my identity to with the people there. And with Tanaka, the smile at that ICA and that's, that's so that represent the people of Burma and not just the beauty of it, but the resilience of the people, despite having a very minimal function continue to smile in villages. Very, it's, that's something that the continued, that's something that ingrained in my mind when I came back. And so when I came back, I know, I told myself that I will continue to smile for you. This this, even though I have all that I need here, the folks that that I walk across the street, even on the street, fuse, many people who are homeless is the sum. I don't know why. But the image as sticking my head engraved in my head strongly is that smile of woman and children looking up to me and smiling. And this that secondly, when I went back there, I saw they were slingshot that were sold on the street market. And as a current and somebody who live in a refugee camp, a slingshot is an essential tool that we use to hunt birds and whatnot, about a slingshot and in the rubber band, because I couldn't find those in the US the rubber band that they have to use. Isn't that good. So I brought those two things. And last but not least, the people of Myanmar are very gracious people. And they give whenever they have and that's one thing that I committed myself whenever I come back here and continue to carry that and give you more and more and if you don't remember not too long ago, boom, I was read as the most what is it? Number one in the world for giving to others and so that's something that we don't think about but it tells us a lot about us as a people of this great nation

Host  1:24:50

thank you I know that a curry has been in and out on internet trying to get in I just want to check in and see if she happens to be online at this moment. It Are you there?

1:25:03

Yes, I'm here now.

Host  1:25:05

Yeah. Would you like to share anything?

1:25:08

I'm sorry, I missed the question though. I heard everyone's responses. Is that what what you brought with you?

Host  1:25:15

You can pick up whatever question or response you'd like, given what you heard.

1:25:21

I guess, when I think back to what I brought with me, I don't know, it wasn't, I was kind of in shock and trying to get the first flight out, I could, before everything shut down. So I, I don't think I can't even remember, you know, I think was a bunch of useless stuff, like some clothes and for my important documents, just the practical stuff. But I think the most important thing I brought with me was my sister, who, who didn't want to leave and who wanted to stay and I don't know she thought she could fight or something. So that's the most important thing that I dragged out of the country with me and fought tooth and nail to bring here

Host  1:26:10

right and a curry now that we have you online to another follow up question. When people have been sharing what reminds them of home, feelings, culture, people smile, smells, sights, sounds, objects, etc. What what is represent to you how do you? Or what is it that what is it that stands out that is most acutely missed when you think about what, what home was then which is hard to recreate now in which you really longed for,

1:26:42

I think that there's a smell the smell of Yangon, I don't know, like when, whenever you fly back, and you land and you go into the airport, there's the smell of Yangon. And for some reason, I really missed that. And of course, I miss you know, those really crazy and noisy downtown streets with all the the street food and all the chaos and activity going on, on this life out out on the streets. So you know, living where I am in the middle of nowhere, where as you can see my internet doesn't work. I really miss them. And it feels really, really lonely without, you know, without that and and I just miss the smell of you know, the roads during monsoon. And I even miss like, you know, the villages up north in between state and Regina, in Bhutan, where I stay for just very short stretches of time. But yeah, like, I guess it's like that feeling of just missing. I don't know, a place, like a sense of belonging that I had. And, and like, for example, for Putin state. You know, when when I'm there, my body feels different. Like, it's like my bones know that, that I'm home like in the home of my ancestors. Perhaps generational memories that are just embedded into me, I'm not sure.

Zoe Wild  1:28:08

For for the people that know that Burma is Myanmar is 80 or 90%. Buddhist, and I know many are. There's also there's also many Christians and Muslims, but the majority of people are Buddhists. And I think a few people on this call have that background. What would you say to those who ask you how you reconcile the Buddhist philosophy of non attachment and letting go with this very real lived experience of loss? Is it helpful? Is it not helpful? Because it just made me feel worse? You know, what is? What's your experience with that? How do you hold it? For anyone who's Buddhist?

1:28:58

Well, I'm a Buddhist. Well, I was raised as a Buddhist. So I didn't like that not attachment naturally. But actually, it has nothing it may not necessarily be with my religious practice or any day is more because I've been traveling place to place and so I don't really have much of a Attachment A physical home. And so and also, you know, a lot of unpredictable things happen in your mind. You know, we don't, Burmese people usually don't like to save money in the bank because a lot of n rejectable Things happen. And then they will rather buying goals or anything in and just I don't know is that and I wonder if it has more to do with a religious practice or just a political system that can whatever you own today, but the night the next day because of the political system, some days, it's all going to get it away. And so we just, I think we are kind of trying to be well Just teaching and also the kind of train minute political instabilities and a lot of unpredictable event. So we're kinda used to live in it just one, something's bad happen. We just, we even smile and we just just like I need offset I know people smile, it's on the event and we make jokes and something so I think it's a it's a combination of the Buddhist teaching and also the system. Make us practice Buddhist teaching into more, more deeper sense, maybe.

Zoe Wild  1:30:38

Sure, well, life is always uncertain. But in some places, it's more obvious. Right? I'm seeing all these strings of in the chat of, of the participants sharing different things that they miss and love about Myanmar. And I'm wondering if there's more things. If you didn't like to share something that you love about Myanmar?

1:31:02

Yes, if I may, I like to comment on smiles or Burma or other ethnic groups in Myanmar. I returned to Yangon in the first time was in 2012, after I left the country in 1997. Okay, many of you were not born, but I think so. After more than 1516 years, I returned to Yangon in 2012 In the beginning of the transition, and the first thing I noticed was people smile, people were smiling less than less than when I left the country. And I talked about that to one of my friends in Yangon, who was staying there remain there all the time. And I say, why don't people find anymore? As much as I used to know them? And he said, it's a good observation. But he wouldn't know because he was living there all the time. But I noticed that and I my my realization is that even in a in a place like Yangon, you know, people are under tremendous tremendous pressure, they have to, you know, make a living under tremendous pressure with the daily grind and you know, poverty and all that. So people at least mining list this, they still do smile, but I will say smiles are hard to come by these days. Yeah. We

Host  1:32:29

do have a question from someone who's, who's watching that I'll that I'll read and anyone can pick this off. The question is, so a lot of this conversation has focused on adults and the adult experience of losing a place of familiarity. This question We talked briefly, Simon talked briefly about the displace chin, children and resume and of course, there are incalculable numbers of children who are displaced as in internally displaced people as refugees as exiles as a new passport holder somewhere else. And this, this is quite a different experience. And so this question reflects those experience of children who are suddenly displaced and suddenly have a loss of home, that in their young years, they're only beginning to understand. The question is, how do you think? How do you think being displaced and resettling in tough situations will have an impact on Burmese children? Will this teach them to become more resilient or have a negative impact on them mentally, as they continue to develop? So I invite any speaker who wants to address that or take that as a jumping off point to talking to looking not just from the adults perspective, but shifting to looking at the displaced children's perspective as well, and what that means on a wider sense as a country and society at this time.

Zoe Wild  1:33:53

I'm wondering if any thought Do you have some experience of that since you work with resettlement here in the US?

Eh Nay Thaw  1:34:01

Yes, of course. This is also I also answered this from a personal experience as well as somebody who grew up and in a refugee camp then essentially moved to the United States through refugee program as a young boy, early teenage actually yes, they this you tried to move it to here you know, the current people especially those lived in ethnic territory held areas are continued to experience. Language was the term somebody mentioned earlier about our continued to have a system that wants to remove your native language out of education system, right. And so the current language are not taught in public school even in some in the Caribbean. I can new territory. And that is because fear of repercussions ramification of teaching language, Korean. And so a lot of language are being taught within religious institutions like the Bible school or Bible Church, right. Whereas in public school, it's, it can't be taught because of restriction. And when you lose language, you lose access to your history, you'll lose access to your ancestor knowledge, and wisdom. And so even myself growing up in a refugee camp for 10 years, now go to school using the Korean language, when we came to the United States have gone through a simulation program, as the moment you step outside of your door, that's when you begin using the common language, the English, right. And so for personal experience, I slowly lose my native language, in even speaking to the concept of terms that I learned in here, in the US, my parents never taught me, I never learned my native language. So if I want to express certain ideas or concepts with my parents, I'm not able to do that. So that causes communication, deficiency, communication, issue, and barriers, right. And because of this, there are things that we learn here growing up that we're not able to communicate it to our elders in our communities. Even content, as simple as, say, I love you write things that we don't say in our native language. And so that is something that I began to observe that become a concern for, especially for the elders, who children, first, second generation are not speaking that line native language. And you see how you know, here in the United States, it's the melting pot, right. And so it's a perfect recipe for losing your mother tongue. And in the process, losing your language, then eventually losing your mother identity, your history, your background, right. And so this is a common concern and a common fear for a lot elders. And here, my community in the current community, we have children that have grown up here that are able to communicate with their friends in English, but when they want to communicate with their parents did not able to do that. So that cause barrier frustrations. And as a result, it can create even like family issues. So one of the so that's one of the main observation that I have seen is that language, right. And it becoming a concern to all our other parents, and there are there's so many psychological issues, then I'm going to give the template to our

1:37:49

compatriots here. I just would like to also share a bit more about the perspective from the children. So, yeah, I think it's a, it's a very hard to say, and it's a very complex model what we think because just a young boy, let's say that just five years old boy, he used to be playing with his neighbor every day, and they go to school, the meetings, you know, in that very peaceful environment is a blink of eyes turn to crisis, and then, you know, my family I also have to evacuate them to hear the safe place. Then, like I talked to them, and then it seems okay, but I know sooner or later gonna be happened something so we just have to lock our house just locked at all. And then you know, bringing off nothing, and then coming to refugee camps in the border. And then I don't want to say about many kids, but just as parents from my sibling, my young, youngest brother is just seven years old. And in the morning, when they arrive, travel off my five days or the reaching to the border, and then the morning just he says I miss home. Because here he does all the people he sees become slightly different than what he is to see in the back home. And then here they he has become very saturated people are coming together and you know, very saturating often, little camps are there. Even they don't some people talk different language. Some people some kids are even they are hard to communicate. In that moment I felt that they will have, how hardship they're going to go through as a kid because they don't know how to express it. And then these people are Playboy you know, they really love to play in a young boy, but now they wanted to play but they don't know how to talk To the people beside them, because they have different language. And it's become, you know, I don't know how to say, it's really hard for them. And then he came on say that I miss home, and I miss my friends, the friends of the neighbor is to play in the day before yesterday they became. And now we don't see any more in that way that you know, it's become very much impact to the children. And also, secondly, even though they are children, but they start to learning of hearing of what the parents are saying, of course, parents will be complaining apparently, thinking of how to survive in the lands in the refugee camps, or the set of topics that they get, the young boy will not able to analyze it, but hearing all those become sort of, you know, depression for them, even they don't know how to interpret it, what they have hearing for the parent. And then the parent cannot secretly talk about those things. They come together, you know, refugee camp, they're very saturated, where are you from the talking and they are bringing a lot of hardship, and the kid are listening those old, you know, things, and then it becomes very hard for them. So I found that, if any way is there, I think this will be very strong was in the future that the people have asked I mean, the Myanmar we have to be really, you know, resettlement and rehabilitation for this and mental health to our general army and the kids in the civilian powerful things. And then also, lastly, I would like to say today that it so I think education is very powerful TOEFL remedy for the children, when they come to school, at least they are playing friends, and they are able to do something they want that in the house, because the house is just built up with double or a properly some key they understand they say, why Mom, I'm here, why? Why don't we go home, I don't want to stay anymore here. Because the rainy season, the refugee camp is not very well constructed. And sometimes they're in a job. And when the winter is very cold, they don't have enough blankets. They say, Mom, I feel cold, I want to go. And you know, sometimes the parent doesn't they don't know how to answer for that. Saying that is very painful. Another way to help them, we have this education program at Elizabeth Berry, when a remedy for the children that we can do. At the nursery, I just want to say one thing today, as you all may have seen a very sharp video employment state, just four years old, when they say the sounds of the airplane, when they say the airplane flying something like that they pretend the sound and the getaway, you know, going down the season will go on to say that they will have to round out and leaning just for protection of themselves, saying that it's very hard braking, because those kids should not be known those things, actually, they are just a nuisance, no nothing, they are just playing kids, you know, but now even they need to learn how to survive in that situation. So I don't know much how to top it. But the feeling for the kid is in these situations very difficult for them. And sometimes they are, they don't know how to speak at some time, they are left behind. Surely they are the one who more suffer than adult because we at least we know how to analyze it so that they don't know how to analyze it. But those all become some some filling in for them in some portions about the abundance of them. So it's I don't know even how to express it. That's all I like to say thank you.

Zoe Wild  1:43:40

Thank you. We're coming to the end of our time. together today. I know we could go on for hours on this topic. And just thank you, Simon for sharing that, you know, as humans, we, we all have a right to a secure sense of place. And especially as children, I think it can be so unsettling. If we don't know where we belong, if we don't feel safe if we don't have a place that we can be ourselves without having to explain ourselves or where we know that our people are and food that we can digest. And you know, we are animals and animals have a place. They have plants that work for them and food that they eat and there's a part of me that wants to tell you well to hang on as tight as you can. Because for so many of us that's been lost forever. You know, for our ancestry. However, even just I'm second generation in America, but even my grandparents were refugees, but even so even so those are short, I don't know In the place of my people, the places and the environments and the scents and the smells and the languages and, and so I think so many of us in the world with this great migration become rootless. And there's a beauty to that, when we can find connection and home and ourselves. And when we can share more with each other. And, you know, with the diaspora, we learn more about our unity as humans, but there's also a great loss. And this loss of connection with land, you know, which contributes to our, our disconnection from the ecosystem, and from the planet that keeps us all alive. And that's home for all of us. So, thank you all for sharing today. From your hearts. I know, it takes a lot of courage to touch into the pain of this loss, and the hope for return. And I hope that sharing these feelings has helped to ease the burden, at least for a short time, and in some ways. Again, for anyone who would like to support well, for anyone who'd like to find out more about any of these speakers, most of them have done podcast with Host on insight, Myanmar, and you can find that on their website, which is insight myanmar.org. And if you'd like to contribute to the schools where Simon is working, you can go to one like global.org forward slash Myanmar. And I know, Joe is dream is to do these panels, I think twice a month. So we will be returning. Joe, is there anything else you'd like to say?

Host  1:46:59

I would just like to really thank the people on this panel. This was for the amount of time I've spent in Myanmar for the amount of hours I've logged having podcast conversations for how much I've personally been involved. Since the revolution for the past two years, this was really eye opening to me, I learned some things that were expressed at such a depth I mean, I'm I get emotional saying this, you know, it was um you know, this was really powerful stuff you guys shared. And it really it it taught me about the depths of the burden that you're carrying, you know, it it made me realize this is a this is an I think the combination of voices was so powerful in terms of the the personal experiences that you were reflecting and then the poet's voice of Coco that coming with some this this incredible metaphorical language that tied it all together and the you know, the chats about the the small things that were being missed. And even the things that that no one really liked that were being missed of the all the different ways to die in Yangon or everything else. But it also spoke to you know, I think you you really opened all of you really opened up and you were able to express from a depth of that was almost like the way I felt as a listener, which I'm privileged to be here, it almost felt like you were giving yourselves permission to tap into a pain and a burden that, that perhaps you don't really allow yourself to access and that an audience isn't really there to want to hear and embrace and beyond and I think that it was the combination of the poems that the cocoa that was reading and the personal experiences that you were sharing, that really gave that indication of the depth of this pain, the weight of this burden, which I I've I thought I knew I thought I understood that on some level, but the depth of what you were able to share really opened me up and and and showed me really how how much you're carrying and how much you're holding and and that you gave yourself permission through the the duration of this conversation to be able to share more and deeper and and what, and just that incalculable loss and then the fact that this loss comes from the form of an aggressor of a violent and cruel aggressor that you've had to learn to live with while resisting so that you don't end to resist the aggressor in such a way that you don't become that aggressor yourself. Coco that tells us that, that he resist tyranny and all forms tyranny and all manifestations, tyranny and the resistance movement and tyranny in himself as well. Mike God, that's beautiful. That's that's, that's just incredible and where that ties in. So, you know, I just want to I want to really thank you for for this because I am so moved I'm so emotional hearing the depths that that you've been able to share and open up. And I hope this has also been this has been, this has been helpful for you in being able to feel safe in what you've shared and what you've lost and how you're trying to overcome and what you want to regain. And, and this will live on in in, in podcast form and YouTube forum and social media forum, people will be listening to this, that that are not live and they'll be able to access it so. So that's I just wanted to share from my own side just how deeply I was affected and in ways that I was not necessarily anticipating, as someone who had heard so much and been involved so much already, this was another depth and, and with that I as we close if there's if any panelists would like to say a final word or thought then please do so.

Zoe Wild  1:51:04

And if not, perhaps we can call that

1:51:07

a yes, thank you. Thank you, Joe and, and Zooey. Once he said loss of connection with the land, I was thinking an ecosystem, I was thinking about climate refugees, who may have lost their land for good, right. So for them Despereaux maybe forever home. That's just my Yeah, my conclusion or conclusive remark. Thank you.

Zoe Wild  1:51:35

That I was thinking perhaps you could end with your poem. Oh two? Oh, would you be willing to read that? You're muted?

1:51:44

No, no, my own form, but I like to read a poem from picking off new shoes were not stopped this spring. But written by me is about destruction of home and having to leave home. It's a short one. I hope you can bear with us. And this core map of Myanmar by mini map of minima, or that remain a pebble in my fist, a water bottle in my backpack, and a heap of bones. What's next? The asked next by answered don't need to climb the mountains of the past. No need to grow towards the rivers and rivulets of the past. The secret text says there is a question here. There is natural guest bear. What's next? They asked No, next by answer. For a clue. I will leave this poem so you can work out the depth and the breadth of the country. Thank you.

Zoe Wild  1:52:55

Thank you. We'll send out the poems and the links to the various participants projects and websites very soon. Thank you all for being with us here this evening. It's been an honor.

Host  1:53:22

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