Transcript: Episode 18: COVID-19 in Myanmar, Thabarwa Edition
Following is the full transcript for the Thabarwa interviews, which appeared on August 28, 2020. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
Host 00:00
For many people around the world in this time of COVID-19, life has become particularly fraught, unbalanced and discomforting. Moreover, for meditators, particularly those whose heart is connected to the Dhamma and the golden land, it's very hard to get information on how the pandemic is affecting things there. We wondered how we could do our part and helping to brighten people's day just a bit by providing that information. So we changed our normal run of interviews to bring you this new series, which examines how the Coronavirus is specifically affecting monasteries across Myanmar and meditators around the world. Continue to check the Insight Myanmar podcast feed for upcoming episodes related to this topic. We know this is a challenging time for many out there and hope all our listeners are staying physically safe and mentally sound
01:16
If we are complacent and don't do really aggressive containment and
01:19
mitigation, the number could go way up many, many millions to be
01:23
isolating patients emphasizing social distancing.
01:28
The coronavirus outbreak is now
01:32
COVID-19 can be characterized as
01:36
one of the worst affected countries. The past business
01:39
supply chains are being disrupted
01:41
around the globe this combination of people
01:50
coronavirus outbreak is now
01:53
changing
01:55
realize see
01:56
an opportunity
01:58
situations Please make your compassion and kindness
02:03
to the people you have done your
02:07
due to COVID-19
02:10
become more support
02:16
this time to to grow in dumb,
02:19
geek out. Your negative minds can become closer to each other.
02:24
They send a message to all over the wall all over the universe.
02:29
You see
02:30
change
Thabawa Sayadaw 02:32
and less, work hard. More and more,
02:35
be more Sandy. kindness.
02:39
People can help in the time
02:41
whichever helpful
02:42
thing you
02:45
do see some positive aspects
02:47
of this Corona crisis. We all want it and we see
02:50
that in a sense
02:52
that brings people also closer together.
02:54
People getting closer together and watching out for each other. We have more time off
03:00
communities for the community. And time to meditate,
03:04
please make your compassion and loving kindness.
03:08
It was kind of naturally very warm and very angry kind of
03:14
stabilize their heart.
03:17
This reminder of this uncertainty of life, where we don't know see what we can do and what we cannot do, what we can accomplish and what we cannot
Bhikkhu Varrapanyo 03:30
remember peace in the face of suffering.
Host 03:33
This is the sixth episode in our COVID-19 in Myanmar series. And for this one, we're changing things up a bit and trying something new. Past episodes of featured voices from several different groups, local Burmese women, monastics expats, who left the country and expats who stayed. Taken together. These shows are a powerful archival testament to the range of responses from meditators and when As the coronavirus swept the world from reflections on death to vulnerably sharing fears about infection from seeking protection and Sheila Souter recitations to find a safe place of practice. Our guests have shared openly and honestly about what they did, how they felt, how their meditation inform their views, which was in turn impacted by the pandemic spread. One of our motivations in producing this series was the desire to use this platform to share words of wisdom during a particularly troubling time. However, now a good half year into whatever this new normal is, the reality of having to live with this pandemic has transformed from those early initial shock waves to a kind of uneasy settling in. For that reason. After this episode, we're taking a pause to figure out how to best proceed with the series so that it remains relevant and continues to reflect the lived reality of practitioners as they adjust to changing conditions. All of which brings me back to this current episode that the bahwa edition. As the title indicates, this is the first show in this series in which all the voices are from a single place. In this case, the Bala monastery in Delhi in the episode departs from others in more ways than just this. However, as some of the interviews were collected, right as the world began to shut down because of COVID-19, Zack and I realized that while not that long ago in time, they seem eons ago in other ways, as so much has happened since then. So besides the original talk of the guests, you'll hear some updates as well on how and what they're doing. This before and after approach allows the listener to follow their journeys across time and see how their practice and mind have adjusted as the ground continues to shift under their feet. I hope that you found some value and insight in this run of COVID-19 in Myanmar episodes. It is a scary and unsettling For many of us, and the words of the Buddha can surely be an aid as we look for firm footing. Thank you for joining us on this journey and we hope that you keep safe and healthy and have a genuine wish for all beings to be happy. Please enjoy the show that follows. First we hear from Alibaba. This is a recording of a public talk that he gave earlier this year in April to an assembled group of foreign meditators at his family and branch monastery.
Thabawa Sayadaw 06:35
And then he is a leader who control discipline in this area. He informed us about five foreigners from this center. They are running for insight in alimony that is also nice to live in this situation. So they want us to remind Not here. Not to go out of the Sangha not to go to the village because villagers hiya afraid of their finance. There's also regard to that man of discipline in front about one final from the sender going around the village and buying the food and come back to the sender. So he posts about that for us in Facebook. He in font even do the government on Facebook. What do you understand is here in dibala Zenda we cannot control the foreigner does windy are going out of this and be worried for this and there will be virus because of many foreigners here. Also foreigners in Star City. They also worry for that but they are staying at a place here. In the ballots and many foreigners and Nia here many people also beside as good where village does Why do you worry if there is virus here in the bias and on it was to disk down. So they don't want virus to be here. So they are serious for their free not to stay only in the center. You are concerned with us as windy. Remind us on the government about the posts on Facebook. Some of the Biba support for that idea, but some argue from the side of the foreigner. Some people understand the foreigners are staying here for a long time. Voluntary does Why now must need to worry by Sam Bieber agree with that pose, not to go out after Santa, not only for finance but also for the lager Beibei, also, the leader of the village is responsible for the villagers not to go on to stay at home. If you are going out there must be amazing without raising DNA trying to stop it. So concerned with the foreigners, they made more serious because he cannot communicate with you. They don't know about the foreigners in the foreigners may not know about them. so in this situation, they may think, only in a bad way. I went wrong in one township of yongle. That's why the robot today no gag order is passed. But they are reluctant to give the permit they cannot give permit easily. So, it is an applicant to go here and because even the government is serious for the virus, fo the logo or device person is also concerned with the government does why he go when to make mistake as well. It is difficult, even to go AMS wrong with many Biba. But, this is British country does Why? Many people who believe in Buddha Dhamma and Sangha, ably does, why does he save, to deal with Buddha Dhamma Sangha, therefore, some of the gunas they are willing to do good deeds as much as possible Especially the when me to go AMS. Well, I really go AMS Rao, because of traveling in the country and abroad. Most of the problems in this country are concerned with the mind. misunderstanding, wrong view. That's why I have to solve a lot of this kind of problem here in this incident. new virus now yeah in dalyan, but it is fair as India dog. So we need to solve that problem, which is really happening in that dogs have their local paper here, some of their local paper here. for them. It is really important. Most of the thinking will not have been for sure, but we need to solve the problems In the mind, in the West, people emphasize the real condition. But it is really important for most of the people here to be safe in their mind may not be safe in reality, but to be safe in the mind is more important. This is Buddhist country. That's why most of the people may emphasize the mind rather than the material or actual wall. This is a different view with a Western and that's why you cannot argue with them. You need to try to use it in the right way to be using only I have to solve these kind of problems all the time. I rely on doing good deeds to solve this problem. It will take time but it work tomorrow, right? Your way to also the right India way, but no one is complete. You can aggress you are right, the wrong because our Crespi one site is problem between each other. Now you are yeah in Myanmar, you are dealing with Myanmar Bieber. That's why you must, you must try to know about a good point and weakness of the Mr. Biba. This is meditation in daily life, when you meditate, you may understand mahasi maed that are going on met that that is not complete, you should understand their weakness and good points of ease meant that you must be able to use Every method in the right way of using only is real meditation. If you don't know the truth about meditation, you cannot get such a. So so if you don't know about the truth of the Mr. B Bahia shoe, may not be able to solve the problem with their local paper here is the difficult times for the Indonesian volunteers here. So also this is the great opportunity for you all. They think you are dangerous. So if you can prove you are safe by staying away from the virus in me believe in the foreign us if there is fire, as in the foreigners You will see more dangerous concern with foreigners is difficulty so also there is opportunity if you eyes unite that in doing good deeds together in order to software problems concerned with virus when you that will be a best solution for our international volunteer here. This is the same for about center because of many EU and sig beaba here because of crowded with dough Now Avandia here in this center. Some be bad believe it is really dangerous, concerned with a virus. So if we can prove we are free from the virus, it may not miss understand in a future because they understand many different People are here in the center. So, it is really difficult to control his organization. If we are able to control this and that to be free from virus we can prove the others we are not dangerous. In this way, more and more people will come to stay and volunteer in descender you are responsible for yourself and also for the sender. So, also everyone here is responsible for oneself and for the sender of our sender Daniel dannion already bust through many difficulties similar like this. But we can survive at the now moods of foreigners here are fallen the not medidata is the weakness of the Indonesian No volunteer. If they are more Indonesian and melody does, she will be more reliable. Many people rely on me and on this end up because I am a meditator. And also I am a volunteer. I am a meditation master. In this way I belong to the map are doing good deeds. They believe in me because of doing good deeds, doing all kinds of good deeds not only voluntary, but also meditation, keeping precepts and teaching about the truth. Many people rely on this and down because of doing all kinds of good deeds without limit. In this way the sender goes on with the map or doing good deeds does why they believe in descendent because of doing good deeds. Ma not because of the place not because of the name now because of that people here, but because of their doing good deeds continuously without limit. jus are evil, do volunteer but need more meditation, serious meditation. If there are more meditators and volunteer, you will be more reliable. For sure. Meditation is the highest of all is given preset when you meditate. Volunteering is the basis of doing good deeds. Volunteering only is not enough. You all can stay here. You are a part of this center because of especially because of fallen dare and Less meditation. If there is more voluntary, there will be more foreigners, more chance of doing good deeds. Radiation is needed by many people in the wall. Volunteering is not concerned with many people, more people are needed to learn meditation. again see more volunteering and meditation and patient care and Oh a scare. If you get out of the compound of the Sendai USB report binder religions, in the future it will be like that No outside of this and also because we should stay away from public area. The main road is not only using by us but also for the villagers. So, we should be careful in public area on the main road now but in the future, maybe more straight, serious. You may need to stay only in USA because from 10 to 20 have a bell. There is another announcement by the government to stay, not to go out for wonder festival, only to stay at home to advise the virus. It was dead from then have a bird for 10 days. That is serious. So enough reason you should not go on. It is better to stay only in the room. I will go AMS wrong tomorrow and the day after tomorrow. If we know what you need to sound one of you can follow and stay In the car, and then if you find what is to develop for you, for the crew, you can take it. No need to buy at the market, we are donated a lot. Beside when you go out You should be careful to read and mess if you are dealing with the stranger. It is better because the time became more and more serious, more and more dangerous. If you are not reading the mags in meetings, you are not safe. Be by here have strong attachment to the law regulation also. Now, the government emphasize to stay at home to stay by yourself no ceremony, no gathering because of remainings again and again. More and more Believe it is safe, if you stay at home and not safe if you are out. So, by staying outside you will be believe you are not safe. By staying together with the others you will be believed you are not safe by the virus. That's why they may may problem for you because of believing, so, everyone is serious to be safe from the virus. Therefore, if you are not doing like them you will not be convenient with them. Now more and more remaining to read a max also, especially outside you must wear masks to protect yourself and also to protect from the audace. So choose one and follow and choose what is useful In the listener volunteer tomorrow morning at seven o'clock we will be leaving in the money the regular donation to descend down by provacan de cada in Yangon division, the Donate together once a week because we open the center food, Dine and accept everyone for free doff accommodation food magazine, we are able to do like this for over 20 years continuously that's why more and more people believe it is possible to do good deeds without limit regularly in this way, day when dude to do good deeds as much as they can. Why They have a chance to donate food to descend up the stud that donating this that they invite us to do they are what to call it food. Some of the tunas are really serious to donate to descender because of doing good deeds without limit continuously. So we are serious, not too close to Santa. So so they are serious not to stop donating regularly to the center. Therefore some of this and some of the donors are willing to provide food even. There's no chance for us to go out of this and he will color the food, find themselves and then do We're trying to send to the center. If we can go out one or two months, and some volunteer, go with a god and trying to call it a food as regularly and then come back to the center. They know when to stop supplying food to us because we are also the same, we will never stop opening the center and feeding food and giving accommodation is the most needed Biba here in this country, we are able to do good days, actually. Therefore, they are trying to do good deeds accurately like us. So this is cooperation. It is the same for the International volunteer. As long as Indonesia Neverland dia here in the sand. Send down will survive for London. If this and survive for London there will also be international volunteer. This is cause and effect, wanting together all the time. In this way, boats can be stronger in doing good deeds, we both can get good results, what we went. There's why even if we cannot find a way to survive this and many other people will be trying to solve this problem for Shiva in this way we can survive anyway for sure. as good if you are serious in debt, loving kindness or metta meditation you can do you have free so as anyone is free to do one is willing to do there's freedom here In this center, there is good that's why do by yourself and also we are willing to support you. So as many people will support you if they know about you our activities out doing goodies. You just need to be dutiful in your read this before Avaaz and open, I don't have much chance to do good deeds freely. That's why I cannot give the others opportunity of doing good deeds really. Only when I can open about send up in 2007 for the first streak device, and that in 2008, abattoir, send that done, I'm free to do good deeds. That's why I can give the others to do good deeds freely. Because while I can learn a lot in the bowels and repay are free to think to speak, and to do. In this way we can learn a lot by in practice, not by thinking. Thinking without bread days, made many mistakes, during good days practically, can solve many mistakes concerned with doing good deeds. In this way, the boss and da does a lot quickly. Because of this freedom. Yeah in this center reside. The power of rely on doing good deeds is stronger in this center. doing good deeds are the mark, protect us fulfill our need, going good DS freely with mindfulness and detachment Is everything for us now in a National Volunteer became dangerous for most of their local people here. That's the problem you are facing now. If you are able to do good deeds seriously, by using the method of doing only you can overcome the difficulties for sure.
Host 29:32
Next, we check in with our Burnham, a musician and lay supporter of the balmaceda. First we hear her thoughts from an interview in early May, just as young gone began to shut down.
Awbur Nyan 29:45
In 2008, I was like around 23 years old and then my hobby of music to become a singer. We did our recording of Music Album, but things doesn't when, as I expected, so I was quite depressed and I feel like maybe maybe our just abandon the job. And then our just leave to abroad and walk there as and get a normal life. So before I go, I want to set up my mind to be strong and like to get the calm and to have the mind to deal with everything that I got to face in abroad. So I told my mom, I like to meditate and join the retreat for a few days. And she said, this is very good, so you should go. I don't have much experience about the contact about the meditation center. So there is a shop at the corner of our street and they borrow the books and the seat as of tomorrow talks, like for free, it's like the library that everyone can go and then borrow the books and the CDs. So I went there and oxygen, if I want to join the retreat, where should I go? So they give me a few options, the mogul Center and the other Center and the CDs. And then they said there is one meditation center. It's more like a forest place. It's in Tallinn is a little bit far from the city. So it's attract me more than the other meditation Center, which located in the city center. So they give me the cart. And that number is in there. So I call the number and I didn't know that I was talking to the head man. He said like The meditation the method will be a little hard to understand. So wearing Yagi dress and the other rules are quite flexible because the method is quite straight. quite hot difficult to understand. So then it's track me and then I went there. I try only four days retreat there, because I didn't know how much I can go. But for the first three day I didn't understand what the damar targets explaining. Because he was talking like there is no I know you and like there is no me You cannot count on your brain and your intellect isn't that so it makes me questioning a lot about what he is talking. I want to know so much. So I keep getting investigating and then I keep asking to the other nuns. So on the first day I started realized because of the help of a non she explained about Rupa and the nama those things, and the four elements, this and that. So it changed my views totally and like my plan also changed. I don't want to go abroad and walk. This is more important of like the importance of the life because making money is not that important and then not to waste the chance of enlightenment to get to attain the enlightenment. So I keep on joining the retreats and then I joined the tomato that hell in the city by say Otto because he visit to the different places like the home visit and also to the patient and hospital so many different places for the matam. So my mind totally changed. I enjoy being a Yagi and enjoy practicing this thing interests me more than anything I have been encountering my life before. So this is how I know the center and I get involved in it. The other rule that I volunteer is like with my language skills by I can help the foreigner Yagi when they come to our center to join the retreat or just to know what is Buddhism, this and that I can help them translating communicating with the monks and nuns and also sometimes when they like to know more about Buddhism I can share my knowledge as I know. And sometime we did the video, like interviewing the patients who recover the disease, just by the meditation and just by the Buddhism practice, Vipassana and the concentration. So we did some video like with the foreigner documentary. So this is what I do. And now I'm living in Yangon. But when like back in three or four years when I lived there, we can help any like small things in the center alive for the foreigner travelers when they came there. I can help them do get to know the center more, and also their small problems like to get where to get the food where To get things and when they want to be calmer monks and Nana, I helped them like this. I ordained as a non for five months, back in five years ago. And now I'm back to CD and I'm just doing my normal working life as music teacher. So I can only join some retreat special retreats like for 10 days, and sometime join the damar trips and the Dhamma talk in the city. So, yeah, that's it. That's how I discover their center and my volunteer role in there. So mainly I teach music to the expats who live in Yangon and also like the children of the diplomats and like We are quite happy together and then suddenly the COVID-19 started and ephors We are not that terrifying and we just doing like our routing as normal. And then the things get weird. And like we had many news from the other countries and like people started panic. And some of my students family, they stopped taking the lessons and sounds like they skipped a few less into the other weeks. Even some some of my student parents, they are quite worried when I cough or something like that and they asked me to wear the Macs this time, the COVID-19 hasn't arrived to Myanmar yet, but I've noticed that people started panic and terrified about it. And then we heard that our neighbor who country like Thailand and Malaysia or Singapore, they have some victim that COVID-19 spread to the neighbor who country. And we also had the announcement from the embassy from our country like UK and US Embassy, they announced Sam's ally, the official announcement but Sam's ally just spreading news in their friends and family and acquaintance. So people started acting like really serious problem. And after that, some people leave the country many of my viewers Also leaves the country. It's very sad sums are like, leave the country for good. So they haven't had the plan to leave the country before but after the COVID is arrived to our neighboring country they just left and after a few weeks that they left the COVID-19 has found in our country like the US citizen and the UK citizen, they just came back to our country. They are the Burmese who live in US and UK. So like when the COVID is started arrived to our country, people started very scare and like, the things get worse, like not worse but they worry is spread too quickly. So How should I say like the things changed day by day at first people stay going and doing the thing as normal like nothing happened but when the cove is started arrive to her country like too young go on. They start wearing marks like we can see many people are wearing marks he's in there. And then like people start to aware the prevention to the virus like we can see many things on the streets like they they just put the things and the water bottle and the handle and the sprays everywhere like sums up like the donation after that. People start How should I say the company and the supermarket they just reduce the walking hour. So like we we noticed the things is changing and then the government is handling really good from my point of view because like they don't do the lockdown the curfew right after the COVID is arrived, and they just they just do it very slowly, like day after day they just put the the commands and the announcement like to stay home and to wash your hands. And then later like they announced the companies and the factory me to do the as the discipline and they have some criteria for the health and prevention for the COVID-19. So after that, like 15% of the employ only 15% of the employee, go to the walk and later the water festival came. So it's very good time because we have lights usual holiday like two weeks, and then the government taking like a good chance to do more social standing. So like they just put the announcement, like all the factories and the company needs to all the walk, it has to stop for two weeks until the end of April. And then now they just increase the stayhome period until May 6. So the things is not worse as we expected before because many people's care, like the pandemic, the virus will spread very quickly and many people get sick. Isn't that but the thing is like it's not the worst at the moment because we only have over 150 patients but the guessing from the wh or something like the hab organization, they guess it the patient in may well be like over 1000. So it's not very bad, but the theme is like, we are kind of like we lose our freedom. I we cannot go out and then we cannot see the people we love like friends and family. So it's kind of depressing is we upset a little bit. But there's a good things too. Like we can do the plantings and also like, we can do other skills that we don't have yet, for example, like cooking, and also the online teaching on the staff as I am or teacher. I need to do my walk, even the situation is change. So I adapted and now I'm started doing the online lesson. And it's quite fun, like it's quite good. Is there advantages and the good things that we got from the COVID-19? Yeah, we had some announcement in the post about some nunnery and the monastery, like from the outskirts of the town. So I saw some polls that the nuns are in a bit of trouble to call it the food from the arms round and things. But the thing is, like people stay donating donation items, but I'm not sure if every nunnery and monastery, get the support from the donor because we cannot know some nunnery, a monastery that are facing difficulty getting food. So bye for some And famous places, they will have some problem from my point of view, but from like the seedy monastery and the nunnery, they are doing okay because they got some support from the government and also from the neighborhood and the the usual donors, so they know that they're facing difficulty to go for Armstrong. But the meditation Center is a very sad things because usually for the water festival, people have the chance to join the retreat. But I saw many posts about like the meditation centers can sell the retreats, this and that, so people wouldn't have the chance to do the intensive meditation for them. Like if they cannot do it by themselves. But still, I saw some online meditation retreats and the demand talk. So some people have time at home so they could do it. Anyhow. Recently, before the virus spread widely here, we joined the damar. Talk to our CFO, and he mentioned about the kilesa virus. So like kin is a virus inside us is always there, whether the COVID-19 viruses there or not. So we should always aware of our virus and we shouldn't focus on the corona virus or any other disease because we already have the permanent disease until we have Highly attain the enlightenment. So, this is one thing and the other thing is like this is causing the Fed, because in the world and then like people get very greedy and also cruel and like they just just try the natural nature. So, this is just the affair of the causes human do. So, like the the main problem is not the virus is the killers are of the human and the people. So, like, we have angers and also like human like to eat many different meats, as possible as as can be so, like, they try many tase, and then the food that's not very suitable for eating ourselves. So, like, it causes us the strain virus because people do the strain things. So this is causing a fat. And the things we should focus more to prevent is not just wearing masks, not just washing our hand and I not just only focus on the virus, we should focus on our mental process and then the How should I say the unclear ness of the mind so we should purify our mind and then we should do the good deed. This is the best way of prevention. So like for the outside wall, like physically, we should do the things we should do like wearing marks and then washing hands and also like doing social standing. And as Buddha say, we shouldn't do the unnecessary things like going outside and chilling Or like having fun at the restaurant with friends like for example like this like unnecessary thing rather than doing this, we should focus more on our insight like the the mind. So, it would be the best way to prevent the virus and then we should go inside rather than going outside. But this is what they say what they said in their damar talk. The other CR O's also saying the same thing like they are saying almost the same like the kill is a virus and like the cause and effect so yeah. What we see now on in your gone, like lockdown period is, I bet on the street. There wouldn't be the people are like you show day and like You could even see the pictures and the photo of young go on how is different from the usual time so like, it's like the city with silence, so no cars. No people on the street or the road, mainly on the main road are just a delivery people will go with a bicycle. But in the small streets, people stay going out going, he's in there. At the beginning of the lockdown. People are still going to the tea shops might be in the neighborhood and still sitting with a friend like two three people or sometimes like more than 510 people in the tea tea shop. But later, the government announced that auto shop should only like can only sell the takeaway. So like people couldn't go to the shops and couldn't stay and sit. The other thing is like, I think it's about the awareness, awareness like in on TV and the FN and most of the places they keep sharing about the news. So people always aware that virus is outside and then the purple it like the people who like to help preventing the virus they just posted a few. Nice some pictures like the virus are everywhere on the streets. So like with a cartoon and a comic, and sounds like they just do their own videos of how dangerous it is to go outside so people get the awareness and then like many people started to stay at home and I Don't go outside like you show they as they usually do. It's not totally locked down like you said in Europe, but stay for us like we stay inside home as possible where as we can be and we just go out for the grocery shopping and to buy some food. There's it so we don't go out it is not necessarily needed. I saw today a post about the musicians, like the musicians are facing problem, difficulty to get the incomes and sounds also like the performers and teachers though like the main major problem will be the financial problem. So they are a little bit worried about it. I am also one of them like If the COVID and the situation could change and the the economic go down and then I, a little bit of anxiety is here, like, as for me too, and I think the other people are also having their anxiety about the income because the things started like suddenly change. The foreign investor also went back and the tour guide and the traveling agency they don't have, they have no work at all. So like, this is what they are anxiety and the virus about the virus also, I think Newmar people usually have no fear that much about the disease and the viruses. So Even our our point of view to the COVID-19 is like, it could die. But there's many things worse than this. And then maybe even if we get a virus affected to ours, we could endure it and overcome it later, but the financial situation is a little bit harder. And then it's not about your resistance. It's all about the lack of change, like the things is related to one and others. So this is not the thing we could handle by ourselves. So this might be their anxiety for it. And then the other thing is the depression, about staying at home for a long time and then we cannot have our freedom and happiness Like before, so people are depressed about it and expanding to who out and then the COVID are gone very soon. Some people find it this is the foreign disease and not the the local one, not the native virus. So, yeah, the fear is a little bit there to be honest. Like we might be the like, it's link the to the skins and their appearance and the virus because in the news, like we just saw that Italians and the art like many euro countries suffer in it, and also Chinese. Korean, I think is just the common fear. Not only the European just centering to the ego of like having the virus to ours. It's not More about it not about the colors and the skins. This is what I see. And but to compare to the news that we read from the other countries like I read a news about some chain people like chin ethnicity, they look so much like Chinese and they are in us or maybe like I'm not sure which country they are in but they got beaten because they look Chinese and that the virus is because of you guys and this and that. So I think in Myanmar no one physically harm to the foreigner even like European even when they see them they just maybe like they care or they will just complain or they will just report to the authority. I think only that much but they don't they won't physically Le attack to the foreigners. Like, I'm pretty sure they are facing some difficulty because we have a few friends who went back to UK and then he just paid the rent to the landlord for six months, our friend and then as he have to leave the country immediately, he cannot find a good roommate and people who will ran his flat back. So they asked us to talk to the landlord to allow to get another tenant, but he just rejected you don't stab it because he scared of the like the virus and this and that things. Even if it's local, he won't let someone who he doesn't know stay in his flat. So I think people are now Likely having anxiety about the virus going straight to you is the main problem. I don't think it's about the foreign or China or Myanmar.
Host 58:17
Now we hear again from Auburn Yan and the talk recorded just last week.
Awbur Nyan 58:25
So after like two or three months lockdown in Myanmar, there are not much cases. And we don't have much people who die and I who have infected by COVID. So people get more relaxed, and then they started going out and then like, we will rarely see their people who wear marks on the road and also the restaurants and the tea shops it's open again. People enjoy going out again. But still their schools are closed and the seanie mark clothes and shredder going to noun is close to the bone and audible Golders is close to now but the parks are open. The government's cool open like two or three weeks ago and the international school they will open tomorrow because August 19. They were open it again so things get better and not much new patient but recently like yesterday they said there was a more positive case and said to him, first day people don't worry much about it anymore. So this is how the things go in in Myanmar right now. But the factories and the The companies and many things they said like the economic is not good like before. But stay people are not very struggling much to compare to the other country in the West, from my point of view, so young gone and Myanmar right now is not very bad. People are getting relaxed and back to the normal. And the Bauer center, they talk about COVID quite a lot in quite frequently in the tomorrow talk when the lockdown started and people worry about it too much. Our CIO mentioned about it in the demand talk a lot, maybe like every days or something, but now they are focused. It's more about the rubbish recycling and all I like to make the changes in the center and also to give the message to the desirable and also to be normal public citizens. I to eat less salt, and the seasoning and the oil because to eat more vegetable rather than the meat because people are getting more sick in the recent year because of the food and the chemical. So now the center is trying to give some message about how foods are very harmful. So this is what they are doing right now. But in the meantime, the feebas na is the main focus, and the other things are the side things that go along with the Vipassana.
Host 1:01:57
The initial funds that allowed us to set up this Insight Myanmar Our podcast came unexpectedly, and we did our best to stretch them as far as possible. Unfortunately, that generous startup donation could not have predicted the pressing need to cover our exploding health crisis. and meeting the interest and concern many meditators have expressed about the situation and Burmese monasteries and meditation centers. So, if you would like to hear podcasts that address this new content, or assist others in being able to access them, please consider making a donation to fund this work. Most all podcast contributors work entirely as volunteers, and those few receiving remuneration are meditators who have offered 50% or more discount for their professional services. Nonetheless, there is still no real way to produce an episode for less than several hundred dollars. Whatever funds we are able to collect now will be used solely for producing these new episodes, and any additional donations will allow us to increase our run. Thank you for your support, stay safe and be well. We welcome your contribution in any amount, denomination and transfer method. You make it via patreon@patreon.com slash Insight Myanmar via paypal@paypal.me slash Insight Myanmar or by credit card by going to Insight myanmar.org slash donation. In all cases that's Insight Myanmar one word I N si gh t TMYN Mar. You can also go to the GoFundMe site and search Insight Myanmar to find our present campaign. If you are in Myanmar and would like to give a cash donation, please feel free to get in touch with us on our third speaker is Bhikkhu vara Ponyo, an American monk ordained under the bioessays. We first spoke with him back in April, where he described his reasons for staying in Myanmar and life at the monastery under lockdown.
Bhikkhu Varrapanyo 1:03:52
When I heard about COVID-19 I was in Malaysia, I believe or actually In in America, preparing to travel to Malaysia to join with my teacher, Seattle Thomas. I heard about the outbreak and it didn't really dissuade me from from traveling outside the country. I don't think there was much information about the virus being outside of China. And I certainly didn't expect the kind of pandemic level situation. That is that is happening now. Before I left. When I originally heard that the virus the situation with the virus had become more like a pandemic, a worldwide event. I believe I was in either Malaysia or Singapore traveling between those two countries. Retreat, following with my teacher, Seattle, Thomas arra, and preparing to return to me and mark to go to me and bar with him are becoming more and more aware of the pandemic. I wasn't so concerned about my own health. And I felt confident in my my practice of meditation, my practice of Buddhism, that everything would kind of take care of itself. And also, in being very close to my teacher at the time, it was more of a comfortable feeling than anything else is certainly concerning that the pandemic was happening, but there wasn't really any fear for me, or worry for me personally. Some The people and certainly the, the environment in Singapore and Malaysia slowly started to change to a more closed down. You know, people became more and more aware of the seriousness of the situation. But it didn't become. It didn't become this major pandemic situation where, like the US was closing down its borders and all these countries were closing down their borders until I arrived in Viet Mar from Singapore. My teacher, my master, he spoke directly about COVID-19 in terms of the virus of the mind, quarantining the mind, using this as an opportunity to engage with the mind. So his approach was to continue doing good deeds limitlessly. To practice non attachment limitlessly, and in doing that, fighting the virus directly, not only fighting the virus outside but fighting the virus of the of the mind, the fear the virus of fear the virus of panic. So that was his emphasis at the time. After I left Singapore, spending around a month traveling from Malaysia to Singapore, participating in retreats with Seattle Thomas are we returned to me and Mark maybe March 8, March 8 arrived in Myanmar. And upon my arrival in Myanmar from Singapore, I began a two day trip to meet with my master, as he was, as he had already began to travel within me and more. So, right when I got to the airport in Myanmar, I headed to Mandalay and then from Mandalay to upper Myanmar, to meet with him and from there began traveling with him in Myanmar for about two weeks, before settling down where I'm at now at to barwin Nature Center in Tallinn. Sierra Thomas Zahra was consistently talking about the virus and encouraging people to continue to do good deeds to practice non attachment focusing on the virus of fear the fear side of the virus, and to to watch our minds closely and to continue to do good deeds despite the virus not to allow the virus to overcome the the intention to To meditate or to do good deeds or to practice non attachment when we arrived back to to barwin Nature Center, and it was maybe only a few days before before the kind of lockdown started happening. But in general it was it was really business as usual for the most part. There wasn't that many changes happening, just more awareness of the virus and in Sierra's teachings in Sierra autonomous aras teachings, more focused on the virus and the upcoming situation that was expected to get more and more severe. The precautions that to borrow in nature center took involved quarren quarantining people who are new into the center Encouraging social distancing encouraging people to wear a mask to wash their hands, a lot of a lot of signs and kind of billboards went up trying to inform people about practices to reduce the spread of the virus. But because of the nature of a place like this, it is difficult to it is not is not as simple to institute policies of social distancing or you know, telling people to to not go to the market to not buy food is just not possible. So, I think that CIO Thomas ARRA did his best within the within the conditions of this center to to take care of the population and to encourage best practices. That was my impression in terms of the the people here at Tableau who are, who are at a higher risk for maybe death or serious complications from COVID-19. I think it was a very important point for CEOs to protect those people and to make sure that they weren't in undue harm's way. So the hospitals became, because it became a little bit more restrictive to get in there and who was going in and who was going out. Like I mentioned before, certain people were quarantined, if they were new to the center or international people in particular were quarantine but still maintaining an emphasis on this quarantine quarantine of the mind and quarantine of the virus of the mind. That really the way to deal with this virus into barwin nature sent is to do good deeds to continue doing good deeds and continuing to practice non attachment. The situation in this center is that there are limitless possibilities here to do good deeds to practice non attachment to receive health care, to receive housing, food, etc. But there are limits to the resources that this center has and limits to the the structural capabilities of the center. So, I think Sierra is doing his best and did his best at that time to to try and consider those people and could consider what what could be done. Not necessarily to to give too much energy or too, too much focus to what should be done in terms of kind of like a Western standard. or common medical standards but what what was actually possible to do to protect the people who live here? Personally, I don't, I don't keep up with the news too frequently. But the news that I was getting about what was going on in different parts of me and more and more so in Italy and Europe and the Americas. Certainly very interesting and a little bit concerning. But not really, not really destabilizing my mind all that much. My focus was more on my, my meditation practice and the capabilities that I have from from where I'm at. doing social distancing, wearing a mask, washing my hands, things like that. So currently in Myanmar, and throughout history, it's quite a nationalist country, nationalistic country. And people are very focused on either being Burmese or being from Sean lineage or the ethnicities and there's a lot of infighting historically through different ethnicities, different ethnic groups in Myanmar. And also nationalism when it comes to the English and Indian people who used to live here. There's a deep history of this kind of nationalism and isolationism. I'm in this country. So I think when COVID-19 happened, and this idea got out that foreigners were carriers of the virus It was quite natural. For the for this idea to spread in me and more personal As a Buddhist monk, I'm not really I'm not in the same situation as most foreigners or most Westerners are, who are living in Myanmar. So I personally can't speak so much to this atmosphere of fear, or maybe a kind of rejection that many foreigners may face at me and Mar during this time, specifically some of the International volunteers facing this kind of issue, I've heard a little bit of the the experience of just feeling rejected or feeling. One thing in particular is that some people, some of the International volunteers, they have this idea that it's a kind of ignorance that there's maybe someone to blame in regards to this idea getting around or that there's someone to blame because of this fear that that has developed or that is present in regards to COVID-19 and foreigners in this connection, but really there's no one to blame. It's it's just an idea. And the approach to it, to dealing with that fear that other people have is just to accept it and try to be compassionate for their suffering for their fear. So I think it's something that certainly foreigners who are in Myanmar right now will face, it's not something I've dealt with much I think that there has been a a flavour a small inclination of this worry or concern in regards to me being a Westerner or a white man, but really that you know, in robes and compared to being a monk in Myanmar. It doesn't, it doesn't hold much weight for the majority of people Just being a monk is more Burmese than being Burmese in many situations. My meditation practice hasn't really changed very much during this time. circumstantially, I've been in a position to, to begin teaching, which is a little bit of a new experience for me teaching some of the International volunteers, some of the people who didn't really have another place to go. So they came to to barwa. So that's, that's been a change in my practice, to some degree, a new a new kind of practice that I've been experiencing. And I've found that rewarding. And also, just trying to maintain this kind of stability and groundedness in my day to day life admits The mist the kind of real changing times the internationally changing times. Well with COVID-19 and with any virus or any kind of material situation that threatens the body or the mind, I definitely in this time during the pandemic, it's been more alive for me that anything that is coming up whether it's fear from a virus or anger about being judged, or having fear pointed towards you, or delusions about the kind of concreteness of a situation. It's all really coming from my mind, my individual mind or your individual mind. Whatever it is, it's it's coming from our mind. So yes, the COVID-19 virus and many materials situations are very, can be very real and can be very important to, to deal with. But the, the affectation, the, the intellectual, the emotional response to that it comes from ourself comes from myself. So I'm working with that insight to, to deal with anger is anger and to deal with greed as greed, to deal with fear as fear, and not kind of, to put it out there to put the responsibility of my mind and my virus of my mind into the world. COVID-19 as a as a virus, for me represents my own mind, my own greed, my own anger, my own selfishness. And so that's how I approach it. Of course, I respect and appreciate the The severity of the situation in the world. But in a day to day practice, outside of what I can do in terms of cleanliness and making sure not to affect other people negatively. I just see it in terms of my own mind and the arising of my own vexations and disappearing those. I think that going through COVID-19, a lot of these countries are going to come to the conclusion that the systems of selfishness and greed and delusion that often go along with capitalism are not really prepared to deal with major worldwide situations. And it's certainly a teaching for the world of interconnectedness just because a virus happens in China. doesn't mean we can't, we don't have to worry about it because it's China. It's all interconnected. And eventually one way or another, we will experience that directly. And the same goes for someone in your neighborhood or someone in your family who is sick, or is suffering and needs help. Or someone across the country who needs help. For a while, we can imagine that it's separate and not going to affect us. But inevitably, we will realize the nature of intervening and interconnectedness. And I think that COVID-19 is an opportunity to to see that directly, and hopefully to, to grow from that, from that seeing a really inspirational story that I've come across is, I believe It's called Dharma relief. And it was started by a I believe a man called guru guru from Tallahassee Chan center in Tennessee, I believe. And they've raised around $500,000, for medical equipment for masks, different medical supplies that people have needed during this crisis. And it's actually been a really this one branch of Buddhism, this Chinese chant, which is what many Westerners know, Zen Buddhism. And this individual guru guru, I believe, is his name. A monk. He has reached out to many different schools of Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism and secular Buddhism. In the States, and they've really raised a lot of money they've come together and are trying to help the world and, and support as many people as possible in the time of this crisis. So for me, I was really inspired by that. And it's great to see kind of the different Buddhist Buddhist communities coming together, trying to offer in a material way, not just a spiritual way to, to this situation, try and reduce suffering in in this way. Well, in this time of the pandemic, and a lot of people are dying, a lot of people are suffering. A lot of people are having a lot of sickness. It's really an opportunity to come back to our own intentions to our own heart, to our own body and mind in this moment. And really, look At an address, you know, is this the time for anger? Is this a time for fear? Is this a time for us greed for selfishness? Or is it a time for, for peace, for compassion, you know, to really inspire in ourselves, this suffering is difficulty to inspire in ourselves, the wisdom and the intention to help other people, the intention to be a beacon of peace, in our community, within our families, within our environment, even in the midst of turmoil. So I would really hope that you know, anybody who happens to listen to this Can, can remember peace in the face of suffering, and adversity, and hopefully be a beacon of that for those around you and for yourself.
Host 1:24:58
Now, let's check in once more, with provar upon you from last week as he updates his life and practice since then.
Bhikkhu Varrapanyo 1:25:07
It's been a number of months since COVID-19 began here in Myanmar. And now that these months have passed, and COVID-19 is hasn't kind of come to barwa. And it hasn't spread and me and Mar so much. At this point it It definitely feels to be an afterthought. And that we've kind of moved into the post COVID-19 period, here in Myanmar, and definitely in to barwa Center. There is still awareness of COVID-19. So, when we go on alms round, when we go out into the city, it's very common that the The monks will wear masks, and will take precautions. So there there is still a certain amount of precaution that's being taken. But I think the, the time of COVID-19 being on everyone's mind and kind of this worry of COVID-19 has really passed. I remember a few months ago when COVID-19 was just beginning and there was this air of fear, and almost, it was almost like COVID-19 was determined, predestined to ravage through me and more and especially to barwa. There are many sick people here, many people living in close proximity, elderly people, many, many people are at risk, and there was this common, very common sentiment that COVID-19 would come here. So people were very worried and concerned. And for a while, I believe there was even a restriction on alms round on going out into the city for monks to receive donations to receive foods and basic necessities. And traditionally, from the ngon from the city, those would be brought here to tomorrow. So I think for a while it was actually restricted for the monks to be able to do that. But now, of course, I believe that the the monks are going back into the city and there's a lot of people going on arms round, and bringing donations back, you know, so during the time of COVID, it was a really, there was a really major feeling of worry, and this pre almost pre determined feeling that COVID was going to come here, but now, it really seems to be an afterthought. And I think that's, in part how Myanmar has handled the COVID-19 response with, you know, there were even songs kind of nationalist COVID-19 songs about defeating COVID-19 and wearing a mask and taking those precautions and being careful. There was a lot of restrictions to traveling throughout the country, especially for foreigners. And all of that. It feels like it's, it's really reducing. Recently, I got quite sick I the high fever I had, I believe something along the lines of dang gay, you know, one of these mosquito viruses. I have a slight thought, Oh, you know, I'm sick COVID-19 But in general, when I went to the hospital here, and when I mentioned to some other people that I was sick COVID-19 didn't even come up. It's interesting to look Back on those months ago, when COVID-19 was kind of beginning to show its face here in Myanmar, and there was so much worry here to try and see, the master of the center was speaking a lot about COVID-19. And the really the virus of fear in relation to COVID-19. But now, we've really kind of moved on and the Seattle, Seattle Thomas era is now he's more speaking about recycling, and maybe the virus of waste. So I find it very interesting that here and kind of like a third world country, maybe it's not third world country, but it's much less developed than the Western world. How a country like this can have such a more unified and scientific response. To the virus to the pandemic, then a place like the United States, where the virus is still totally out of control from from the news that I get from from back in the States.
1:30:14
Yeah. So
Bhikkhu Varrapanyo 1:30:16
for all intensive purposes from from my perspective here in Myanmar COVID-19 has basically been defeated. And people are still taking precautions. And I certainly haven't forgotten about COVID-19. But I think people generally feel that it's not a major issue. And any kind of like, pandemic level situation seems to be isolated to, you know, a place like the United States. And I think at this point, countries like me and Mar, which were still closed for international travel But I imagine also countries like Thailand, and maybe Japan, for example, they're a lot more concerned with people coming from the United States, where the pandemic is still really in, you know, full effect. There's still quarantine, there's still only essential workers in the United States. You know, a lot of people are still staying at home and there's still debate about wearing a mask. I think here in Myanmar, it's where it's getting to the point where the masks can start to be taken off. You know, it's at that level of kind of resolution in Myanmar. And I think that's mostly to do with the unified response the national response to the pandemic, and to really using it as an opportunity to come together and to unify and under this common intention of preventing the spread of this virus, taking proper precaution washing the hands and wearing masks and I see it all over the place any store or even here into barwon most temples, there's signs about wearing a mask about washing your hands about being careful when it comes to COVID-19. Yes, so, for me, it feels like a post COVID-19 world. But I know that internationally, especially in my home country in the United States, it's a totally different situation. And at this point, I'm really looking forward to there being a vaccine developed or a you know, cure whatever it would be, so that international travel can resume and countries like Myanmar and Thailand can kind of continue to receive the all of the financial support and the discipline international support a lot of NGOs and you know educators and doctors come from Western countries to demand more especially and I'd like to see all that get back to normal and see the rest of the world enter into post COVID-19
Host 1:33:26
finally come achari an Italian nun joins us. She spoke to us from the Kabbalah center in Italy in a talk recorded in April
Khema Cari 1:33:38
where I am now I'm right now I'm in South Italy in a new wi center and I'm prettier own in a quite big center which is just happened like that. That's before the before the virus came there was many people leaving because of the cord and we didn't have the heating system and then a just happened like that. So I am officially alone. But in practice there is everyday walkers coming to keep on the walk here, they galley. And the neighbors were coming also illegally because they just want to spend time here also. So that's the current situation, just for information Italy is quite dense the tension is it's been quite high at the beginning because of the death of people now is, I think 45 days we are locked down. So the tension is coming from the fact that just people get desperate because they don't have any more money to eat. And they it's just extending more and more and prolongs at the end to that. So that's the situation beside that. The I think as you know, the most cases I've been in the north, and in the south, we got much less cases, but also the fear is very high because in the south, we don't have hospital beds and we don't have doctors and we don't have a machine so if something happened he But it's surely becoming very dramatic quickly. So that's for the practical aspect. Or if I could have choose the place before it happened, what came in my mind very fast was, you know, I wished I could be in Myanmar. When everybody was trying to escape me Mo, I mean all foreigner was trying to escape me Mr. For my understanding, I was more safe. He was in Myanmar because of being in a country of dharma. And because people are doing a lot of good deeds, and they would understand that
1:35:32
the way to protect
Khema Cari 1:35:34
oneself is to do good deeds and not to rely on medicine or doctors or hospital. And of course, I want it to be near my teacher, and I didn't think about the comfortable aspects and that's me effectively. I mean, in practice, I'm, I'm probably much more comfortable here in Italy. But if I would have the choice, I think I would have jumped into Myanmar as much as as soon as possible. But I don't have the required things happen that way they have to happen and I believe everyone in this situation has been closed down in, in the place they had to be locked down with the people they had to lock down Is it for the good or for the bad week? It seems like it's, it's a time where everybody's paying his karma, good and the bad one. So here the condition I've been restricted more and more strictly, that's, you know, from from asking people not to go out and as unnecessary things until, until having three kind of different policies around the streets to check out who is coming out and giving a fine to people who are going out, and then finally, trying to force people to wear the mask and the gloves, possibly even at home, which is completely foolish. But that's the aim even now. That's actually we Got the death rates decreased by nearly half this last days the instruction becomes to remain still very limited and we hope the kind of opening on the Third of May but we also had been always pushed from two weeks two weeks so we don't believe it in anymore. But the good thing that happened here is in this village where we are where there actually was no case so far is the they've been sitting a lot of fun cheering for you know, when things have been starting to last for a while, they started to motivate people to see okay, we know a group of volunteer who would bring the food to the one who start to have difficulty to buy food group of people also would there have been an opening a bank account because again, we don't have much social system working in South Italy so there is no found nothing. So they they called more wealthy people to send money to a bank account and use all this money for the benefit of all to buy some material for the hospitals and these kind of things. So there's many nice things that we've been seeing happening here and blood donation has been going on that, you know, this kind of ambulance setting up for one morning in a in a place and people can come and donate with all the restriction with gloves and protection, what I mean is still showing that the the good sense was going on and value of helping each other which is maybe very strong in the south, I don't know if it would be given a North besides that there was a lot of tension growing up again between the North and South due to this pandemic and you of course have the the past condition, which is, which is now leading probably to some serious issue at the end of the story. So it's, it's also breaking up a lot of things awakening and other things. When Get started the first thing I felt is like actually for me it's it's not unpleasant at all in a way that I just find myself was much more time than before because I don't have the public coming and I was extremely busy by doing this new center establishing this new centers last month and being not exposed to public Give me the chance to meet it more. So I I didn't see any I didn't see much inconvenience for me except the fact that I cannot go to Amsterdam like a difficulty to get donation or the food and these kind of things but the main point is as mangar monastics I guess we all are trained to, to live according the to what we yet which is very unsure and so, we are basically the mind is prepared to this kind of situation, dramatic situation or unexpected situation or very unstable situation. And I was grateful from the beginning thinking that well, many, many people are now ending up in maybe in very small flat with a full family, maybe children or whatever. And they, they have been never learning how to deal with their own mind and how to deal with some restrictions, because everybody has been always indulging in everything. And I was feeling very, very, very grateful that I had been able to learn all this before. So I was very grateful to be a meditator and to prepare my mind to face this kind of situation where you have to face isolation, but also restriction, but also, of course, the fear of death or disease, which is, which is obviously a very huge thing that the people have to deal with now. And we can feel I mean, if you look on the major scale of things, it's I'm still amazed that people could Do it people who are totally unprepared have been accepting to, to play the game. And I, I guess the motivation for them what the fear which is quite different from the monks who who go into retreat intentionally, and there will be side effects. So the main the main thing I worry about is the fear of people and the impact it will be on them on the head on the on the world, I mean by itself. And that's, if if I have the chance, and I think that's a bit what I'm trying to do through Facebook posts on different things is try to make people understand that the fear is is damaging them a lot. And that will make them make mistake, if not now, surely in the future. So I see it as A great experience I believe everybody have been facing his limits have been facing his attachment and understanding things that they they could not have faced understand and see before. So I see many things positive in that. And I just hope people will understand the great need, they have to understand more about the mind and how to how to do good deeds and how to deal with the fear of death and disease. And I hope people will understand the necessity of meditation centers. One event that was or one thing happening here that was really striking me correlated to this is from the beginning of the story here we had, we had the fashion to draw some rainbow. You know to design some rainbow and dry something Diane, this thing will be alright and you could see this kind of flat everywhere with the rainbow and saying everything will be alright. It's showing this this kind of make up society where we want to believe or make us believe that everything is going to be a word and there is no fear and everything is fine. And there's a happy hand in everything. And that's completely fake. And that's covering and that's creating more fear, because actually we believe we know, we tell ourselves stories. And besides that, there is this aspect to say, you know, we want to go back to what we left because we attached to it, but actually it was not alright before also. Most of the world was starving. We were polluting and poisoning ourself and we are going to die also very soon from other things. So a lot of behaviors in this situation are showing up the weakness and the mistakes we are doing in daily life that need to be changed. And I still believe for who have the karma now it will be very inviting time. And for who doesn't have enough karma or cause now they may be disease time. This is in the mind and in the body.
1:44:20
I think
Khema Cari 1:44:24
just a word about Myanmar, but for what I understand what ciros always teaching serotta Massara is always teaching is that the mind is most important for Burmese. And the fear in the mind will be very dangerous for Burmese. I don't think he mean that it's not dangerous for Westerners maybe just like because the Burmese can do a lot and a lot on the based on their mind. So if the mind is getting fear, they could do us a lot of wrong things. And there is different things difference from near mana from other country and you can see it by the numbers of infection these kind of things not right now because Burma is closest country to China with these and most most contact and there is no reason that Italy have been touched before Myanmar and that it's been spreading so fast and sore sore strongly needy and loving Myanmar. So, there is there is definitely some something that we need to learn from that I believe, which is joining what I was saying at the beginning, if I would have I had the chance to choose the place to to be I would have felt much more safe in Burma, in Myanmar. And yeah, maybe people could investigate about how which Please spread more and running from all these exits. periods even way. What I'm doing right now is daily I'm checking the number of death. And in any day of course on other country like me, Mr. Owens, just having an overview of the situation. And I have to follow the, you know, just knowing if there is any news on the on the legal point of view that we are allowed or not allowed to do this and that I and at the beginning, I did go through all this news and all this. You know, all this information or misinformation, the legal one, the private ones complex, and I could see that actually it was it was really eating my mind and I decided not to go into this anymore. And I discovered that the less you click on the things on the internet, the less things come to you. The more you click on the things, the more dramatic things coming to you. So it's so new so how much internet online Measure is actually manipulating a lot of mile of people. And if people doesn't have the wisdom to, to stop clicking on things, then there really gets stolen by a very strong wave of negative things. Is it from following the who offering the NT who movement, so, whatever, conspiracy theory, or sci fi or Chinese or whatever, at the end, one has to be very, very strong when he's using this media, and this is also one of the things people should learn now because it's something like we taking a break, we can step out of some things, and it may get very, very fast off the wall just like when someone go off from a retreat where there is all this explosion of things. Think about the worldwide explosion is going to happen. So maybe Maybe people should have very grits interests to study their mind and their media and the better the major on the mind. Especially when we are ending up now institution where we can rely on the other major we cannot communicate without major we are or not on a separate. So basically, everybody has to rely on major technology to to be united with people. Because physically we have been separated. So that's, that's showing us a lot of things that's going to happen in the future more and more and that we really have to be careful and to prevent our minds
1:48:41
about this.
Khema Cari 1:48:44
And the sad thing is also seeing our own mind, I mean, I was maybe checking out the media, the beginning by fear of noise, the number of Chris is increasing. And now I think that's something that's going to happen in every country. That's according To the time you've been spending in lockdown the mind will go through different phases as a first phase of being a lot improved by all this change and all these lifestyles change and all the fear going on with this race writing cases and then there is stage where normally the mind just get used to it, you get used to see 1000 deaths per day and you get used to be locked in your house and you get used to be controlled and not be allowed to walk in the street and not to be allowed to have your human rights or whatever, and just become normal at some points and there is boredom coming there is the there may be a phase or so where that the practical phase where people start to worry about the money and and how they're going to make a living or how they're going to come or the depth accumulating. And I think every country is going through these phases. To be honest, I catch the mind watching this death number and hoping is decreasing just
1:50:00
Because it's going to
Khema Cari 1:50:03
be the end of this situation on the the number of decrease. So I guess Italy is, has been starting first so we see different step and I see I mean I hear the reaction from people contact me and and they have all these phases going on. And I don't know about what are the next phase but for sure there will be the end of the phase excitement, the fear and probably also this this continuous fear for people who didn't take care of the mind that they will be always feel that it's coming again or starting again or it's going to spread again. And
1:50:43
there is all this kind of thing that's happening and it's to show and somehow this uniting this in the world
Khema Cari 1:50:53
just kind of wave has been hitting first China and then easily and then other country. According according to diverse condition, the reaction may be different, but there is still some some common factors that we have to cross.
Host 1:51:12
Now we talk once more with Kim achari because we asked her to update us last week about any recent developments in her life
Khema Cari 1:51:20
okay. So, now is August 5. So, difference now the situation from the COVID point of view is obviously now, there is no more cases and even there is many doubts about all the statistics and the numbers we have seen before because many, many doctors have been speaking up about manipulation of manipulation of the doctors themselves and manipulation of the numbers on the statistic and everything. So, there is there is a bit of anger around population is clearly saying we will not make any more lockdown and there's many, many events that population group and manifest against what happened. But there is still officially emergency states and these two these will have you seen the country to make people believe that we are still in a very risky position. And I think people have a tie with the bodies and probably not another story but here in the south. Monsieur is quite relaxed in the people just wearing the mask in the pocket or somewhere just not to get just you know, to show some respect for the others. But basically, people stopped wearing the masks. There is some old people maybe who still focus on TV and onwards to carry the mask but pretty much is behind for For what I feel
1:53:03
the
Khema Cari 1:53:05
when I look back, I think, also the center had to close the door officially i was i was opening the doors every day. And if anyone wanted to enter, they could have entered. And, of course, the way of communicating with the people was internet. So I did. I did post every day, some some teaching of CIO, who was also teaching a lot about COVID in Myanmar. So I was translating Italian posting regularly every two days, pieces of teaching. And beside, I was writing myself also a lot of reflection, about death, about prison of the mind and about touching and what we believe to be freedom, or these things, I think, during the discordant time. People were very sensitive to me things and they were aware about many limitation they had in mind. So it was a good time and and also besides that I was posting every day or every second day images photo of the center of activity center because although we closed the we did keep on the work with the plumber and the walker here came every day partly illegally and and from my side I think it had the public to see what was going on and that there was not necessity to speak on the about the coffee every day and follow water who came here he was definitely I think I saved their mind because they were going back home in the evening and in the morning they would come here very terrified with many anger and fear in the mind. And when they were spinning here the full day they were relaxing and there was like a Completely peaceful Ward, they had the chance to be in because all thought we were aware of the situation and following the events, as you know, just to be informed. Still I was. Whenever we were talking about this, I was teaching them also that the fear is not helping that we we can try to be careful, but it's also not focused on that. And it happened that I was asked to to host immigrant African immigrants during the pandemic. So I accepted Of course, because that's a poor man had the leg broken on, he had no place to go. And I was also the chance for me to teach to the workers that I would not deny to do to have someone who is really needs for a potential risk. And that has been, I think, a big struggle for them to accept this idea. And then they also understood that actually Between helping someone who's in emergency states or refusing to help because there is a potential risk that we actually don't really know. It was not wise to just reject people and through the photos and things, I think the population have been understanding what we are doing. And and after the, after the emergency state, one of the things open again, many people came and they showed a lot of respect and gratitude for for our presence here. So I think that naturally, people understood more what what was the importance and benefits of having a Buddhist meditation center in here and for me, and automatically trying to shoot for people I think the dibawa teaching is quite quite suitable for this because and not focusing on created truth. And especially teaching people that nothing can protect you beside your action your karma, or doing good action. So in that case, everybody understood there is actually we are on the mercy of something we don't know there's no way to protect ourselves no vaccination normally seen, even people are going to the hospital don't seem to be held there. So it's the time to understand that there is no safety and Ababa, zero, always teaching and every center is set up in a way to help people to do more and more good deeds, and have them to understand that this is a way to protect oneself and also the way to develop more understanding. So we didn't have to really adjust the teaching to the situation. It's just it's just was true, and they obvious in the situation.
1:58:04
And
Khema Cari 1:58:07
then that's it. I think there is no for sure is not way to come back to what it was before. It's clearly people have been impacted very highly and especially as children. I did see more fear in the children I can feel the children are still quite impacted by this story and would not come back to the normal life they had before even they go again, outside and everything. There's definitely a change in the behavior. Some more children came to, to, to see and to ask how to meditate, which is probably your sole impact of being so close and so, so alone with their own mind. And maybe again, Dawa is a very natural way where we don't emphasize on religion And that's hurtful for many children here who maybe have a very strong Catholic background to, to be in the center, which is not so much. Although we have monks and nuns here and obviously we are monastic religious, it has been set up in a very clear way every web Center is a social center is not just for monks and nuns are not just for Buddhist people. So that's think it's a great advantage that everybody understand and can feel free to come and stay with us or visit us anytime. And happy you inquire about these kind of things. And I think also it's very good for everybody to listen to a different point of view from different countries, different situations that people will not attach to their own situation. It's so easy now to be isolated. In this pandemic where people have been isolated from each other and be his own situation become easy Walt and maybe believe is instead of the word and to see people leaving the situation different ways may be very helpful to detach from our own experience.
Host 2:00:14
And now a message about these special coronavirus episodes. First a caveat about our current podcast being produced during this expanding global pandemic. In this new age of social distancing, face to face interviews are of course no longer possible. An obvious consequence of this is technical. None of the guests we interview have access to a professional recording studio, and Dean is somewhere living remotely in the Burmese countryside they have little more than their phone's microphone to record and send messages. Our expert sound engineers have done their best to improve and enhance the quality, but there was a limit to even their magic. In a time when major network programs resort to home recorded and mailed and content. We are also trying to adjust to these new rules and limitations. So while we apologize for any difficult You may experience as you listen to these episodes, we appreciate your understanding of the challenges we face in producing them. On another note, please keep in mind that the interviews on this episode recorded at some time in the past, maybe just a few days to perhaps even more than a month ago. As a result, some of the factual details conveyed in these interviews may be outdated by the time you hear them. We hope you find some light and wisdom in the voices that follow. We're greatly appreciative for the time that all the guests generally provided to share their words and perspective. We wish all our listeners to stay safe and mentally sound and use this challenging experience to grow in the Dhamma. Sometimes we get questions about what we look for when choosing our guests. So I'd like to take a moment to answer. As you may have noticed, we conduct interviews with a diverse range of people whose lives all share one common thread familiarity with Buddhist practice in Myanmar. These include lay practitioners, as well as monastics metta taters, teachers and habits, foreigners and locals as well as scholars, authors, aid workers, activists, and others. When selecting guests and conducting interviews, our main goal is to allow them to tell their own personal story, in their own voice and from their own perspective. Their stories also evoke a kind of hero's journey. Our intention in these long form interviews is to actively listen while encouraging a deeper exploration with mindful questions, taking whatever time is needed for the guests to tell their stories in full. We hope that listeners benefit from hearing about how our guests commitment to Dhamma practice has informed the life decisions and that they can gain inspiration from learning about their experiences and perspective. In the case of scholars and authors, we dig into their academic work to discuss historical matters related to Burmese Buddhism, as we believe that it is helpful for meditators to learn more about the background and context of how the Dhamma has impacted society and culture over the years regarding this particular Show we certainly hope you enjoyed hearing from the guests as much as we did in interviewing them. If so, I want to bring up a gentle reminder that there is a minimum cost associated with every episode. And we are 100% listener supported. If you'd like to hear more content like the show you just heard now, please take a moment to consider giving a donation to keep our engine running. You have been listening to the Insight Myanmar podcast, we would appreciate it very much if you would be willing to rate review and or share this podcast. Every little bit of feedback helps. If you are interested, you can subscribe to the Insight Myanmar podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher or wherever else you get your podcasts. Also, please check out our website for a list of our complete episodes including additional text videos and other information at www dot Insight myanmar.org that's Insight Myanmar one word I N si gh t ny And Mar. If you cannot find our feed on your podcast player, please let us know and we will ensure that it can be offered there. There was certainly a lot to talk about in this episode, and we'd like to encourage listeners to keep the discussion going. Make a post, request specific questions and join in our discussions on the Insight Myanmar podcast Facebook group. You are also most welcome to follow our Facebook and Instagram accounts by the same name of Insight Myanmar. And if you're not on Facebook, you can also message us directly at Burma dharma@gmail.com. That's BURMADH a mma@gmail.com. And we're also active on dama wheel. If you'd like to start up a discussion group on another platform, let us know and we can share that forum here. Finally, we're open to suggestions about guests or topics for future episodes. So if you have someone or something in mind, please do be in touch. We would also like to take this time to thank everyone who made this podcast possible especially our two sons. Engineers Martin combs and thar gay. There's of course sack hustler, content collaborator and part time co host. Ken pranskey helps with editing, drag co spend DITA and Andre Francoise produce original artwork and a special Mongolian volunteer who was asked to remain anonymous does our social media templates we'd also like to thank everyone who assisted us in arranging for the guests we have interviewed so far. And of course, we send a big thank you to the guests themselves for agreeing to come and share such powerful personal stories. Finally, we are immensely grateful for the donors who made this entire thing possible. We also remind our listeners that the opinions expressed by our guests are their own and not necessarily reflective of the host or other podcast contributors. Please also note, as we are mainly a volunteer team, we do not have the capacity to fact check our guest interviews. By virtue of being invited on our show there's a trust that they will be truthful and not misrepresent themselves or others. If you have any concerns about The statements made on this or other shows please contact us. This recording is the exclusive right of Insight Myanmar podcast and may not be used without the expressed written permission of the podcast owner, which includes video, audio written transcripts and excerpts of any episodes. It is also not meant to be used for commercial purposes. On the other hand, we are very open to collaboration. So if you have a particular idea in mind for sharing any of our podcasts or podcast related information, please feel free to contact us with your proposal. As you know, our podcasts are 100% listener supported we welcome your contribution in any amount, denomination and transfer method. You may give the patreon@patreon.com slash Insight Myanmar via paypal@paypal.me slash Insight Myanmar or by credit card by going to Insight myanmar.org slash donation. In all cases, that's Insight Myanmar one word i en si gh T. MYAN ma If you'd like to give a specially to support our new run of Coronavirus episodes, please go on the GoFundMe site and search Insight Myanmar to find our campaign. If you are in Myanmar and would like to get a cash donation, please feel free to get in touch with us. Thanks and see you next show.