Transcript: Episode #94: Pride and Prejudice
Following is the full transcript for the interview with Pyae Phyo Kyaw, which appeared on March 10, 2022. This transcript was made possible by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and has not been checked by any human reader. Because of this, many of the words may not be accurate in this text. This is particularly true of speakers who have a stronger accent, as AI will make more mistakes interpreting and transcribing their words. For that reason, this transcript should not be cited in any article or document without checking the timestamp to confirm the exact words that the guest has really said.
00:04
From handbag flowing into racing in heels, to showing off your progress with a hula hoop or not. mymalls Drag Queen Olympics are just one of the highlights of the country's biggest ever LGBT festival. A milestone for the community in a country where same sex relations is still officially illegal.
Host 00:30
I'm really excited to bring you the upcoming interview with a very special guest. You'll hear him discussing all the great and courageous work that he's currently engaged in. And if you feel inspired to help him continue these efforts, please consider making a donation earmark for his projects. Or you can give a general donation that will support the wider movement in Myanmar. Our ongoing support has been so very helpful and appreciated by those in the country who are struggling during these dark days. Simply go to insight myanmar.org/donation to contribute today or stay tuned to the end of the episode to hear more options. For now. Let's hear from that guest himself.
01:10
Some people don't know about LGBT people, you get people who are LGBT but they don't know what that is. They don't understand. So that's why it's difficult for other people to understand as well. So I will say this isn't just for LGBT communities for the whole country like acknowledging poverty and basic human rights. The way that a good day.
Host 02:32
Really pleased to be joined here by Papio chaw also known as Pyae Phyo Kyaw here in Insight Myanmar podcast. He is speaking to us from deep in the jungle as we'll get to later in terms of what he's doing there, how he's helping. But we'll first be examining where he came from and how he got there. So keep your job. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us today.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 02:57
Thank you so much for inviting me to be here. Yeah, so
Host 03:02
you have had quite a journey. We're going to talk about where you are and what you're doing in a moment. But let's first find out where you came from. So in whatever detail you're comfortable. Can you share a bit about your background and upbringing and childhood?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 03:19
Okay, so let me introduce myself a bit. My name is pugio, also known as Pyae Phyo Kyaw. I'm 29 years old doctor from EMR. I'm half Chinese, and half Korean. So if I were to talk about myself, I have to start from my childhood. I was born in a small town. And my dad is a Buddhist, and my mom is a Christian. So there was like, always power struggles within a family, especially when it comes to religions. And I'm gay. So I'm aware of myself being gay since I was young. And you know, both religions are not gay friendly. Because what is eminent taught us being gay is a consequence of our evil doings in a past life. And Christianity taught us being gay is a sin. So in the earliest days of my life, I kept refusing myself being gay. What's worse is my debt like see us fall and my mom is not right lawyer. It's always him who cheated on her and yet he he was the one who always beaten my mom. So it's not not to say to come out of the closet to tell about my sexual orientation. I do not accept the fact I am I'm gay. So the society I grew up was a bit homophobic. They see gay people as funny creatures, as things that deserve to be mocked. And even my dad and brothers used to make fun of gay people. It was totally okay to discriminate, to make fun of and to insult gay people until recently in Myanmar, so I kept it nine my existence. So I was lonely and a bit depressed. And my childhood was not that pleasant. And when I was 16, after I finished high school, I went to the medical school. And it was not my choice. Actually, I wanted to be an artist. But my fam family chose it for me. So I went to medical school, and ice really suffered in the first few years of my university life, because medical school is not actually my passion. And on the other hand, I was struggling with my sexual orientations. So it's really hard. Only after four years of my university life, I learned how to accept myself, I began to realize that I am not the problem. The people who think gay people are inferior, and they are sinners. That's a real problem, I began to realize that. So that's, that's when I learned to embrace myself and love myself and accept myself probably. But I didn't come out. And at the time, because I thought it was not ready to face the challenge and pressure given by the homophobic society. So I waited. Only after I completed my internship, I came out as gay.
Host 07:33
That's an incredibly powerful story to share. Thank you so much for being so open and vulnerable about this this topic that you've you've lived through, and just what tremendous courage I'm thinking, as I hear this, of what you've had to face outside, to find a way through internal acceptance and love. And I'm wondering, when you did decide to finally come out what form did that come in? Did you express this to selected people? Or was it more public? And what was the reaction?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 08:06
The first one I didn't know that I'm gay is my grandma. I told her, like second years of my university life. And she was quite shocked. And she only asked me once questions. Are you sure that you can face all the challenges? And I said, Yes, but I'm not ready now. So I have to wait a bit. That's a whole she never told me another. Things about my sexual orientation. And the second one was my sister. She was shocked to and she cried. And she asked me constantly, is there anything that you can do to change it? Because I'm afraid you might get bullied and you might get more than you. You might be a laughingstock. She told me that I told her, it's okay. It's not time yet. So I will not come out publicly and I'll wait for the right moment. So she said, It's okay, whatever. You Are. Still a few because you are my brother. And only after I completed my internship, I decided to come out publicly and that's when I told my mom also cried and she asked the same thing. Conti change it? So I said no. Because in the early years of my university life, I even tried to take my life because I felt guilty because the society tells us As our sinner, being gay is the punishment that we receive for our evil doings in a past life. This is like an atonement. We deserve to be discriminated, we deserve to be bullied. And that's what I believed at the time. So I tried to take my life several times. And I told my mom about that. And her reaction changed suddenly. Okay? Please, don't do that. Never tried to get tried again. Because whatever you are, even if you're gay, or you're straight, I love you because you are my son, not because you're a straight. Okay? So the only thing I am afraid of is you will get bullied in the future. If people know about your sexual orientation, if you're sure that you can face challenges, and you can enjoy it. I'm on your site, she said. And after that, I came up publicly, by using Facebook. I announced my sexual orientation that I'm gay. So I think that's the right time because I got my degree from Medical University, and not a full fledged doctor. And I can make a living on my own. So I'm ready to face the challenges. That's when I decided to come come up.
Host 11:52
I see. And as you came out publicly, what reaction did you find from your father and other mill members of the family that you referenced, growing up might not have had the most open intolerant attitudes about these
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 12:05
things? My dad and I were not that close. Because as I said, for a, she was not he is not the best data. So I never told him openly about my orientation. But he knew it and he kept silent about it. So I think it's okay. I even introduced my boyfriend to him and he showed no signs of aggression. So I think it's okay. Or say no, society, they were a bit shocked. And but during the last decades, it's becoming more gay friendly in our society because of the Thai Thailand Bill trauma or Chinese Bill drama. People are more familiar with gay people and gay culture. So it's not that hard. But I faced certain unfair treatment in my working environment, because I moved to Mandalay to follow my partner and I work at a private hospital and the administration's department treated us unfairly because we, we are not allowed to put into the same group. And we are not allowed to eat together. Because they are afraid we might. We might not be able to work properly if we are not in the same group. Group. And for that reason, we have to work separately and our duty hours are like, opposite to each other. So so that we cannot see each other. That's what they do. And after two years, I I quit that job, because I no longer can stand it.
Host 14:37
Right, and one of the things I'm wondering, as I hear this is just the recent history of Myanmar society and the changes that's gone through Of course, the 2000 10s were the democratic transition period, and it wasn't fully open, but there were more opportunities and I there's a book which the title is escaping My mind now it's a it's a book on the recent gay culture in, in Myanmar, we'll put it in the show notes as I remember it. And this book tracking the gays in Myanmar society and their acceptance, it referenced how in the democratic transition a lot, a number of of Burmese Burmese gay community that had gone into exile for their own safety, came back into the country in the 2000 10s. And started to be more open, and not just in their lifestyle, but also in advocacy and organization and be trying to be somewhat of a presence in society because they felt a little safer. They were just moving baby steps in that direction. So you lived through all this, you knew that you were gay, very young in life before the democratic transition. And then you came of age and became a young adult and mature adult as the country was opening up. So did you in front of your eyes? Did Did you see or experience any difference in the tolerance, let alone the safety of being gay in Myanmar? Did you see that change at all during those years or,
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 16:13
or not? Oh, yeah, it's changed a bit. Because the democratic transition started in 2010. But I only came out in 2017. Because it takes years to get familiarized. And then I will say that it's true that it all started after 2010. Because that's when we we are able to use more freely, the internet. We have more access to internet, because before 2010, it was really hard. Just know what the other countries on the world are doing. And like we are in the dark. And we don't know what's going on. In all the country what's going on in the world? And only after 2010? Yeah, I would say that's true. Right? I
Host 17:22
see. So you're coming out kind of coincided with a slightly safer, a slightly more accepting population than 10 or even five years earlier, let's say. Yeah. Right. That's, that's interesting. So and as far as your partner goes, what was his journey? Like? Did he have it any any easier for you and coming to accept his identity?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 17:52
No. She has a harder journey because his family is more like, conservative or old fashioned, I'll say and they deny to accept him, even after we came out. So his family knew that he was gay before he met me. He had a relationship before me. And his family knew it. But they deny to acknowledge it. They refuse it. And he received unfair treatment within this family just for being gays. And when he met me, she was still thinking that he is a sinner. And he deserved to be treated unfairly by the family. It's okay because be such a shame for the family. They still believe it. So I have to change his way of thinking. And I, I told him, being gay is not a sin. Being gay is a natural thing. And you have you shouldn't be shameful for yourself. It's them who should be shameful because you are their family members, and yet they treated you unfairly. And like, they are loving you because you are straight. If they really love you, they should love you. Even if you're gay or you're straight, whatever you are, they should still love you. Right? So you have to change your way of thinking so that you could live more freely. I told him and he finally accepted that and Only after that he was able to come out of his family's control and his family force forces us to be to try to separate us and they forced him to marry a woman. But we are no longer kids no longer under their control. So, we move to an apartment we rent an apartment and we live we make a living on our own
Host 20:33
and living in Myanmar society, how open are you able to be just in a public sphere and on among not in behind closed doors or with friends or in places where you feel safe, but just walking down the street holding hands or traveling and and booking reservations as you go or just behaving in a way outside wherever you are, whether it's countryside or vacation or monastery or wherever that is able to be open in terms of people seeing how you are to each other? And to what extent if at all Have you have you not done that and then careful in certain kinds of environments.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 21:16
Yeah, till today, they do still love laugh at us. Because he when we hold each other hand and walking the walk down the street, people we will see us, like awkward. Should I say awkward or like they would laugh behind us. But it's a it's been a lot easier. Leakey. Right,
Host 21:58
and you mentioned how you grew up in a split household of Corrine, Christian, and then Buddhist also with with two different sides of the family having different religions. Do you identify with one of those religions? Or both? Or neither?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 22:17
I identify myself as Christians. Okay, I took my mom's side. Yeah. Right. And your partner. She's about this. Right.
Host 22:30
Great. So that brings us up to the cool one year ago, learned a bit about your life and your education, your your partner, how many of our society was changing at the time when the coup hit, and the protests started right out in the streets Several weeks later. One of the things that many were remarking on is just how diverse some of the groups out were, how creative how funny how dynamic groups where there was even there were even Rohingya groups that were, were, were identifying themselves as such, which would have been unheard of just several weeks before. And then of course, there were groups of the LGBTQ community that came out, dressed in any number of ways with signs identifying themselves as who they were walking with everyone else. And this, to me seemed kind of landmark to have this community be so open in who they were, and, and out on the street with everyone else. Even though these times were very scary and very dark for how the military responded, it seemed like a something of a of a spark of light, that at least there was a solidarity together, or at least appearing to me very far away and not a part of any of these communities, what appeared to be a solidarity, and something of a breakthrough, even on a small level. So I'm wondering for you, if you participate in any of those or your your friends did or even if you just heard about them from afar, what was your response and seen some segments of these communities be able to, to dress and identify themselves and walk in groups, so so openly in ways that that are not very common in recent history?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 24:29
I did not participate in that group, but I really appreciate them. Because we, we see as as a chance to prove ourselves that we are equal and we are worthy of respect, and we can also do right things and it's time to tell the society that we are not different. We are are also able to do the right things. And we also should I say, we also despise the military government, it's time to tell the society that we are one, we are not different. We see it as a chance. So I really appreciate them doing that. And people's. How people see us change a bit after that, I believe.
Host 25:35
Now, so how did it change?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 25:40
Before the coup, even if it's a little bit earlier, even before the coup, it's a bit safer. It became a bit safer for us than before, but it's not to this level. And after the coup after the we, after we, the LGBT society joined the protest, and doing whatever we can people start to see us. Oh, we are one, they are just different, but they are not inferior. And they are not cowards. Because for the coop, people use us to describe cowards, as gay or gay, why is a coward? They use the term gay as a symbol of weak and wicked and coward. And they started realize that it's not true, because we are also brave, and we can do the right things. And we, we know, right from wrong. And we are also resisting the military government. So we have to stop discriminating them. And they start to change and a positive way.
Host 27:02
That's incredible. That's really powerful. So did you actually hear this kind of conversation going on either either directly or in an online forum that members of the street community were actually re evaluating and revising their prejudice and their their associations based on this moment of people coming together, and then in real time in front of you, you actually saw them began to change the way they looked at this part of the community and their relation to it that were these conversations you were actually a party to?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 27:41
Yeah, the most avenues. Social media in Myanmar is Facebook, and you can see them a lot on Facebook. And the most obvious thing is the NUJ government allowed a gay man to be their minister. That's an incredible thing. Right? I think you've heard of him. And the chrony state I'm currently add, they're not that differently, because they have so many traditions, they have to follow and, and gating is not one of the their culture. And but when we arrived here, and we do little contributions, and the acknowledges, and they even avoid using the word gay in front of us, because it might offend us. So they start to see that being gay is not that bad. And that's the changes I I've seen so far.
Host 28:48
That's extraordinary. So going back to when the coup happened, Can you trace a bit? How, what you how you and your partner were participating? I know that you're in current state now you're deep in the jungle. But bring us back a year and what were you doing those first few weeks and months?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 29:09
I'll have to go back to like, two years before the coup. We were planning to study abroad, especially to UK. And COVID pandemic took place and we have to cancel our plans. And then the coup took place. We both came from families with military background. My uncle is a high ranking military officer and his brothers is a military officer too. But we've never know that. We never knew how the military finally the human rights and ethnic states We really didn't know that. And when we start to see their violence and their inhuman ways of responding to protests, and we began to realize that we have in light our whole life, that they are fair, they are good, though, it was really shocking. And we have to stand for justice, I think. So that's why we joined the protest. And we support the CDM. Movement. Because when the hub workers participate in CDM, patients will have patients with suffer a lot. We knew we know that. So we tried to compensate in a way, by helping by treating them at the charity clinics, and by raising funds for them. To go to the private hospitals, we tried it various way. But the SEC, the military tried to cut off everything we did. They raided the charity clinics and arrest the doctors. And they forced the private hospitals, not to work with the CDM doctors. So that's when I that's when I thought our waste will no longer work. So we have to go one step further. So there's nothing I can do much by staying at home. So I have to go somewhere where I will be more effective. And I heard there are many IDP camps across the country who need medical, adequate care. So I tried to go to church and state. But it didn't work. They said the route are not safe. So please wait. And I tried to go to the chest eight, and it's the same. Okay. So a friend of mine asked me, there was a IDB cam in current state with over 2000 refugees, and, and they need medical care. So can you please help me? And I said, Yes. And I had to persuade my boyfriend to come with me, because he's not like, he does not like me. He used to live in comfort zone, and he's afraid to do us afraid to go out of his comfort zone. So I pursued him. And then he said, Yes, because people need us. So we got here in June 2021. And it's been over seven months. We've been here that we're here.
Host 33:29
Wow, that's remarkable. So over seven months, you've been living basically in the jungle with a mobile medical tent, living in caring for the Karani? Is that right? Yes. And how's that experience Ben?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 33:50
When he said jungle, it's really a jungle. It's not like the rural areas. It's not like we're living in a village. And it's really deep in the jungle. Because in May 2021, the military launch the long range attack to the village that I've I'm currently with, and it hits a charge, and four people died. So they they're not lived in a village. So they move deep into the jungle. And when I came first came here. It's really hard, because there's no infrastructure. We only have toppling rainproof sheets, and bamboos, and that's all we have. So we have to build tents with that and the only water so we can get it raining. Bring water So, we have rice. But we have to mostly all we have was bamboo shoots that we have to eat. There's hardly any meat. So it was really like a new experience for me. And we tried to set up a camp inside the jungle. And gradually we right now our campus, not that not that bad. We filled with more supplies. And it's quite functioning well, we do not live in a group we live, we set up our tents in over a wide area fast, because we are afraid that the military would launch again, the long range missile or will perform an air strike. So that in case they do that, by disposing our tents, that will lessen the damage. So, yeah.
Host 36:26
And you told me that just the other day, there were airstrikes. So you even in how you're living, you've already faced airstrikes, is that right?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 36:37
Yeah. But as I said before, our camp area is very large. So they perform to fit near the border, not inside the main camp. So that's, that's lucky.
Host 36:55
So how far were you from where they are strike kid approximately?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 37:03
I think it's two or three miles. And that's our camera areas. Like about 20 miles.
Host 37:12
That's not far, two or three miles. So what was your experience in seeing that airstrike as close? As you were? What happened?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 37:20
My reaction was a bit angry, I say to perform an airstrike against these people, is really, but what should I say? Cruel or inhumane? Or because it cost a lot of money, even to buy a gun? My reaction was a bit angry, because how could a military use airstrikes against its own people? I was really shocked. And for the 20 people, it's not. It's not the first time that they face such an airstrike. Because the military perform it again and again over the past month, but it's first time for me. But I've been quite familiar with the explosive sound. So it's not that frightening, frightening for me. The only reaction I got was angry.
Host 38:40
I imagine there's also a certain sense of helplessness that when something is falling from the sky, where do you possibly go? How do you and it happens so, so immediately without warning, without knowing when it's coming? That it there's just there just must be a feeling I imagine of helplessness, and, and, and not knowing how to protect oneself and others.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 39:10
Yes, that's the other reason that I was angry because we have no ways to counter that spike, or to shield us to prevent us.
Host 39:28
Right, and you mentioned that you've become used to explosives. I take it to mean that since the coup, you've been used to explosives. I don't imagine you would have had any much experience before that.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 39:42
Is that right? Yeah. I've never heard an explosion before the coup. Only after the coup, especially when I came to the chrony state. That's when I start to hear The explosive sounds day and night. I have never heard an explosion before the coup. And it was only after I moved to Kearney State, that's when I first start to experience an explosion. Because there are battles going on Days and nights and I can, I could hear it from my base. So when I first heard the explosion, I was like, restless and really afraid. And I couldn't sleep at all I work back and forth, back and forth, then I was really nervous. And I was afraid when would it fall over me. And I prepared my packages and I just walk around the camp. And after months later, after I've heard so many have heard it so many times, I get used to it
Host 41:18
right and so this transformation you've gone through like so many people in Myanmar now I should say. But it's really quite remarkable Are you until last year, your biggest challenge I take it was living as a gay couple in Myanmar and the prejudice faced from that. And you went from that being your biggest challenge to setting up a mobile medical clinic, in the jungle among a group of people that come from a different ethnic and linguistic background. Wow, explosives are going off almost every day. This is just an unimaginable transformation from one life to another that I think most of our listeners couldn't begin to even understand or contemplate what we would do if we were in that place. And things have changed so dramatically. Do you ever pause to think about where your life has gone in the past year? And how you've gotten here and and how how your own day to day has changed? Or are you just so caught up in the daily life and the necessities you haven't really had time to process? How how drastically things have changed in the past year
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 42:39
for you personally really had no idea that there, all this would happen. We were not expecting a coup, actually. So even last year when the COVID-19 took place, and we are still planning to go abroad, and we're trying to set for the lab exam. And suddenly this happened. And, and we were not expecting a coup. And I was planning to sit for the plant lab exam last year. And all this happened suddenly, what is so thanks to the teachings of my mom and my grandma, I think they taught me to do whatever I believe is right, no matter how hard the situations are, how the odds are. They always tell me to keep doing whatever you believe is right. And please do not keep silent. When you see something injustice is going on. That's what they taught me. And I applied it to my daily life. So it's not after the coup happened that I chose to do such things because even even before the coup, I used to fight against superiors for my job, because I never kept silent whenever I see something is not right. So like I was what do they call such person? I don't know the English word for that. They call it Burmese and quaza. Yeah. So I applied that principle to current situations and the other thoughts that drives me to do it is If not you, if it's not you, there will be no one to return this. So you have to start from yourself. That's what I can't. So if I have to wait for the others to take actions, then what is the old others people's weight? Like me, there'll be no one to stand against against the military. So that's what I thought. So it has to be me who start to take actions. So if all people think like me, the revolution would add more quickly, I think. So that's when I decided to come to the current state.
Host 45:50
That's quite powerful. So now you and your partner have taken on the responsibility of doing something I assume you've never done before setting up and establishing mobile medical clinic in the middle of a combat zone, where civilians and IDPs are caught in the conflict and explosives and airstrikes are going on every day. I imagine the supply is also quite challenging. What is your experience been like for the last seven months and the learning curve you've gone through in setting up this mobile medic medical clinic in a region that you really have no experience in?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 46:34
Actually, it's quite difficult because the main difficulty is lack of facility and transportations. So it's true, there are so many difficulties in doing what I've been doing. But it wouldn't be possible if I were allowed. I always turn to other people's, whenever I face an obstacle, or difficulty. And like over overcome them one by one, I usually never look so far ahead. I only try to solve the problems on daily basic. And the main difficulty here is lack of specialty and transportations. Because all the transportation routes are cut off by the military, they always tried to cut off all the connections to get here. Because they know it's the people defend those who are we're taking care of our security. So they try to cut off whatever supplies we try to the truck carry inside the camp. Then our mobile clinic as not much facility, you know some diseases are hard to treat. And some are even hard to diagnose. Hard to be diagnosed. So and we don't have a tertiary center to refer the patients in case we cannot in case that are out of our league right. Yeah, that's a main problems here. How did
Host 49:01
you go about that? Even from the start, you know you I know you're trained as a doctor. But you've never done anything like going into the remote area you're in and setting up something from scratch with in a conflict zone with only the materials you have your you have on hand and the knowledge you have from your training. So as you began to take on that mission and that responsibility, how did you even begin to contemplate and to set up? What would be an effective mobile medical unit in a conflict zone?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 49:49
I must say it's all thanks to our seniors, because I have like four or five seniors on the Who left in this city? So whenever I faced that difficulty, I asked them for opinions. And that's what drives me. So they've given you some good advice. Yeah. Because they are also trained to work in remote areas, because before they be the be became specialists, they have to take trainings in such areas. So they have experienced in that, and I took their advice, and I'll have, I had to read a lot. So at first, they're not, there were not so many complicated case, in my clinic, but as the time goes on, more and more complicated case, are coming to my clinic, because all the other clinics in the area are closed or have had to move because of the battles. And we are the only functioning clinics in our area. So more and more complicated cases are coming, and especially the COVID cases. So I try to manage, and I see what I can do for them, and do it according to the sources.
Host 51:48
Right, right. And as you're now responsible for taking care of so many people, and people with such a range of serious conditions, and you're operating in these kind of impossible situations, you also need to find a way to take care of yourself, you and your partner need to be able to do that. Because this level of trauma and this level of work, this is something that you also need to stay mentally and physically healthy and balanced.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 52:19
How have you been able to do that? We quite went into fights, sometimes, because we are worn out. And so we sometimes we take a break for like two or three days when we do nothing. So my partner and I went into fights several times over the past seven months, because we're not we are worn out. And so we're not patients with each other that much. That's why we fought. And when such things happens, we take a break from our daily activity, because we are not the only medical persons in our camp. So we have other medical persons like nurses and public health supervisors in our clinic. So we take a break for like one or two days or two or three days sometimes. And that's how we manage to continue to face the stress here.
Host 53:39
Right and also for the last seven months you've been living among the cranny people this is an area you haven't been before and I'm not sure how, to what extent you knew currently people before you went out there. What is the experience been like of embedding with a community for as long as you've had?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 54:01
Yeah, I've never been to Korea stick before the coup. And I've never seen one. I've never seen that many people before. So it was my first time meeting them and they're friendly, not that difficult to communicate with. The only thing that I the only feeling that I caught from talking to them is regret. I regret that I never knew so much things were going on inside the crony stage before the coop and i i read didn't know that. So they have been suffering what we are seeing right now or several decades. So I heard their stories and I feel really sorry for them.
Host 55:11
What are some of the stories that you heard or perhaps one story that really sticks in your mind?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 55:17
Yep. I think you might know that there is a hydropower plant in Kearney State called La piedad. So it belongs to the chrony state. And various cities from the mainland receive its electricity from that hydropower plant. But the clinic don't, they don't get it. So how power supply lies us over their head. But they didn't get any benefits from that. And instead, they have to art the tower. I think it's called tower right? The tall pillar to support the power lines, so they have to guard them without any benefits, and they didn't get any electricity, and they have to stay in the dark. And yet, they have to guard the power lines that came from the hydro plant that existed in their land. And what's worse is, there are so many land mines near the base of the tower so that no one could destroy it. The military planted a lot of landmines. And yet the answer villagers to call them and they didn't tell them the exact locations of the landmine. And they forbid them to make a fence around the around the tower, those towers. Crazy people ask for it. Please make a fence so that we couldn't so that we don't step on the landmines, and the military refused to allow it. So they they have been mine plus cases in the past decades. And no, no one 4 million you're about, you're about it. And sometimes the military, or when the military came in, check the towers. They ask the villagers to kneel before them. Sometimes they beat them up. And they will never on the media, on media and we didn't know anything about it. By the 20 people hate the military so much.
Host 58:07
That's terrible. That's that's just unspeakable and inhumane to hear. What was your personal reaction when you heard this stories and stories like it?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 58:20
I was angry and ashamed. I was ashamed of myself because I were living in the same country. And I didn't know about that. And I was really angry. And I'm it's it became more clear that we have to take down the military are such things will keep happening. So we must put a stop to them.
Host 58:55
I just don't know what to say after a story like that. And I'm sure that's just one of many that you've been exposed to these terrible, inhumane crimes that have been committed for years for generations that are not just committed, but not known about either.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 59:11
Yeah. And I've seen one by myself last month. Because your camp, there's a village and there, there were clashes between the people defend forces and the military last month. And so the military take control over the area. And when they retreat, they planted landmines and in the fields so when they retreat that the villagers went back to their village, and there were two cases so far that they step on the landmines planted buying the military, they bought a lot last
Host 59:59
year. Were those victims brought to you?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:00:03
Yeah, to go and pick the first victim for myself. And it took like, six hours from my clinic to get to a properly equipped hospital. So it's a he, he was very lucky that he didn't die on the way. Now,
Host 1:00:37
you mentioned that both you and your partner come from military families. Have you had communication with the members of the family who are in the military? And are they still in the military now?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:00:50
My uncle retired from military years ago. But we are still in that circle. But I cut off all connections with him since the coup start. She's a coup started and my partner she sometimes seals talk to his relatives, but not not that close any more.
Host 1:01:33
Right, I imagine hearing some of the stories and witnessing some of the things that you're doing really has both of you reflecting quite deeply on those family members in their circles as you were growing up that participated in the military and wondering about them and their activities.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:01:50
I think there'll be things that we didn't know that they committed the same crimes. That's why I cut off all the connections with my relatives, and for my partner his military related relatives is has just entered the military not that high rank. So he believe that his religious didn't committed any serious crime till now. So we are trying to persuade him to switch over US side. But for the safety of the family, he was afraid to do so. Right
Host 1:02:37
now you're living in Kearney culture for some time and you'll be there for some time to come I imagine. I'm sure those experiences of living among those people is changing you and affecting your your own life in various ways, with this kind of transformation in yourself of living among the cranny. If you were to go back or when you are to go back to Mandalay Yangon, other urban cities among them are living living in those cities. How do you expect you might change given your experience here? Is there something that you think you would do differently? Or, or, or engage differently based on your experience of living among the cranny?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:03:29
Yes, sure. Because I learned that the chrony people are what should I say more realistic. I must say that they're more realistic than those people who live in a big city, because they face this the bitter truth of the military over the decades, so they know how to survive in this situation, so they are not afraid to lose anything, and they can start from scratch in any time. So that's what I learned from them. And I'm not afraid to lose anything either. And it gives me I should say more confidence. And
Host 1:04:33
looking at you and your partner coming to Karani and setting up there and then living there for so long. How was the reception Ben? I mean, in one regard, you're really foreigners in a way you there's a different language, a different set of customs, there's urban countryside, different ethnic background. And then of course, being a gay couple coming into was largely a traditional community. I imagine it's something different for them. Well, so how has that reception, Ben as you came and settled among
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:05:04
them, I only first came here. They didn't trust us. And we treat, we've been treated differently. Because it's quite fair, I think, because there's so much racism happening in our country. Back in the mainland, we see the ethnic people as minority. And they are often described as honest, but rude and uncivilized people. That's what the what we used to think when we were back in Mainland and further training people, they didn't notice us. The only trust their own people, and they do not trust especially permis. So we have to work for like, four months to get their trust. And right now they are treating us like one of them. And they start to see that not all Burmese people are bad. Not all people from the mainland are wicked and cruel, they started learn that, and I'm really happy to do so.
Host 1:06:41
The different shades of unity you're describing in your story are really remarkable. I mean, you're talking about coming out as gay yourself. And then the pride you see of how the gay community can march in solidarity with people on the streets and its dispelling these age old discriminations and and making it have making, allowing that community to integrate more into the UN have a place with an overall Myanmar society. And then so in that sense, you're kind of more of an outsider who's finding a home for perhaps the first time through this, this sense of everyone together. But then beyond that, you then go into a place where you are among people who are themselves disadvantaged at the hands of people who look like you and talk like you. And so then you're having to be on the other side of that equation. And then they're starting to become comfortable with you. So this, this is just interesting, because it's kind of a microcosm of the overall unity that's happening across Myanmar now, at least from what it sounds like, to me, were all these different and distinct groups, whether they were distinct by lifestyle, or ethnicity, or region, custom language, whatever, that all these different and distinct groups that haven't had a reason to trust each other before, are now finding ways to and perhaps it's not successful every time. But just from hearing your story, these are some remarkable examples of these divisions starting to be dissolved. Is that something you find as well?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:08:21
Yeah, I actually admit that I am. I must say that who took all of us together the coup make all deficient to unite as one. So that's one of the good things that come from. I must say that.
Host 1:08:47
I agree. And it's pretty ironic, because the military always says that tomahawk is the only institution that can unite the people. And in this sense, it's true that Tamada is the only institution that can unite the people because the sense of hatred and solidarity against them is that unfortunately, that that does happen. But But hopefully, it can give us some hope going forward, that what we're seeing now is not just an episode of convenience, but is something that will be lasting and that that there will be a place for gay society, gay, the gay community in Myanmar society going forward that there there will be Karani who can trust some Burmese at least one Burmese that they aren't like the rest that have terrorize them and that there will be consciousness on the part of Burmese that these people have suffered under institutions that I might be a part of you and I didn't know I was but now I've learned I am part of an ingest inhumane system and what is my responsibility in tearing that down and building a more equitable one for people that don't have my privilege? So this, this examination happening in real time is really It's really quite startling and, and promising as well, I hope
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:10:06
in the face of greater evil that we all have to unite as one. And most of the members also met only after they get here, they are not friends for for this. And right now we have been like we found a family, because we've been through so many hardships together. So I lost even after the coup, and this, this kind of trust was spread. And I think we act as the link between the crazy people and the Burmese people.
Host 1:10:53
As beautiful, that's, that's really great. Not only have you been there and currently stay meeting so many people in that society in that community and helping them. But you've become somewhat of a local celebrity, or at least an online celebrity in Myanmar for posting what you do pictures, reflections, and so many people that have never met you and might never met you across the country and the diaspora are following you and cheering for you. And if there was ever a time that people would see that a member of the gay community is not cowardly, or weak or anything else, it's now I mean, you are living the example of of, of how you are serving and helping in ways that so few people could, and through the online sharing, people are able to follow along virtually what you're doing and how you're doing it. And and so I think just the example that you're setting and the ability of the Internet to to share that so that so many people know I think that itself is breaking down barriers. So I'm wondering, aside from your direct relations in the craning community, Have you have you had interactions or conversations or online dialogue where people that are just following your story have that they have also been impressed or? or had their mindset changed by your example?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:12:26
Me, I hope so because I have done us with other media's and I participated in like two or three, talk, online talk. And I saw positive comments under their posts, so I hope I could set an example and I could change people's mind.
Host 1:12:57
I hope so it's amazing. I mean, you're you're changing cranial mind by being among their community and showing a different side of the Bomar experience. And then back in Bomar society, you're changing those minds by taking a a group that has had certain assumptions and prejudice and showing by your living example how wrong those are. So these are two completely different sets of barriers that you're just by your living example of service are hopefully breaking down.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:13:28
When I first came here in June 221. There was not there were not a single case of COVID inside our camp. But in August 2021, or we, we found one case. And it's we try to cut off the transmission. I sat in complete lockdown inside the camp. But it didn't work, because for some reasons we have to go in and out of the base for security reasons or other reasons. So it didn't work. And the COVID-19 cases raises over 200 cases. So we we set up a COVID center inside our camp and we treated them and we have seen 10 severe cases so far. This oxygen concentration level fell under 90%. And we've lost one patient because of the post COVID-19 complications. So at first we were we were able to manage such cases because we have medical supplies and we have oxygen But as the battles going on the military poses to oxygen plants to shut down. And so I couldn't find any place to fill my oxygen to fill the oxygen. So I only have concentrators and our generator and a few enterprises when skyrocket, and I couldn't afford it anymore, and I cannot run the power generator for 24/7. So we have to give the patient's episodically oxygen. And there was a patient who who suffers from post COVID-19 complication, I believe it was pulmonary fibrosis and pulmonary embolism. But I don't have enough medications for him. So I gave I gave them like, one or two weeks, and then there's no more medications left, and there's no more oxygen. And so we have to give up on him. And he passed away a week ago. And now we have to shut down our COVID Center because we no longer have enough oxygen or we no longer have enough medications.
Host 1:16:52
I'm really sorry, as a doctor and a caregiver, that must be tremendously difficult to simply not have enough of what's needed to meet the needs of the moment.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:17:08
So the funeral I was talking about this morning, a funeral I have to attend to his chest. It's seven days after he passed away, so they they may they hold a ceremony for him. So I have to attend it this afternoon.
Host 1:17:33
Right, I'm sure we have a number of Burmese listening to this both in the country as well as diaspora and I'm sure that many of them have already been following along your journey online, what you've posted other interviews, but having the chance to speak to them now. Is there something you would like to say to them about your experience informing them about what you're doing and having the greater community understand what you're seeing and what you're facing? Is there? Is there a message you have for them?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:18:09
Yeah, like to say you might have heard about the difficulties and tragedies happening in ethnic area, but you will never know how to see us until you see it for yourself. And most of the Burmese people do not accept that. There was there is racism and root inside that damn. Even I couldn't see it. But when I came to the chrony state, I I began to realize it military try to install the racism into our generation through the education system. So we have to try to realize it ourselves. And we have to let go of the thoughts that the thoughts said ethnic people are less intelligent as an IQ people are rude. Other people's are funny accents are funny, their traditions are funny, we have to let go of that thought. And we will have to start treating them like as equal and we'll have to keep respect to their traditions and their accent and their language. Thanks for
Host 1:20:08
that and now speaking to the foreign community those outside of Myanmar Westerners or in other countries who are listening to this Do you have a message for them as well as there's something you'd like to say to them?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:20:22
Yeah I hope I hope and I believe you will continue you only continue supporting us the spring revolution and I understand if you could not help us directly because it's like a political issues. But I believe and I request you to continue to support us because we might have done mistakes in the past. But now most of us see our mistakes and we are ready to change so please give us a chance to change and give us give us a chance to work on the right part
Host 1:21:20
thank you that's that's really beautiful. That's that's also very powerful. Looking now your experience in cranny society you know, this is something of a different culture. You're You're a foreigner an outsider in there. And any time any of us goes into a different kind of community, there's the things are different the customs, the way of relating the some of the behavior and personalities. And that can be a tremendous learning experience. how other people see the world how other people behave. So what have been his you've spent now as you mentioned, seven months in crazy community, that's quite a bit of time. How has it changed you? What are some of the the beautiful and special parts of Korean culture that you want to take with you after
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:22:05
this? Like I said before, they are straightforward people. And they taught me about one thing, because back in cities, we are told that holding guns are dangerous. And so the military never allowed us to have a gun even with licensed. But the Kearney people here has a habit of using the word called to me again, an old fashioned gun. And they're really peaceful. So it teach me that constant, not dangerous. Only people who hold in them are dangerous. Yes, because the reason I'm doing this, whoa, one reason I'm doing this is because of my family sufficient to do what you believe is right. And the other thing is, I'm trying to build a community safe for the LGBT people. Because I don't want anyone of the next generation to suffer what I've suffered. So I want the society to see us as equal and we're not weak, and we're not wicked. And we also deserve respect. And that's why I was I'm trying this hard to set an example. So I hope you if you work well.
Host 1:23:59
I think you are setting that example. I really do. I I really think that this is a moment when so many of those old barriers can break down and that so many different people in communities can examine assumptions of all kinds that they've had that they're not proud of. And that this could be a moment to get over that and let them go and I truly hope that does happen. You yeah, I hope so. Well, thank you so much for taking this time with us. I'm insight Myanmar podcast. I understand this is your first interview in English. I think you did great. So I think that everyone will be able to understand how well you've articulated and communicated your story. It's incredibly inspiring. I should mention that we have a nonprofit better Burma and that for those listeners that We're especially moved and inspired by what you described and who wants to support you directly. We encourage any listeners to send a donation through us and with it earmarked for your cause. And we, we will make sure that it gets there to you.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:25:18
Thank you for your help. How much longer
Host 1:25:21
do you think you might stay on and cranny? Do you have any idea? Yeah,
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:25:27
I plan to stay like at least two years here. And I hope by the time our revolution will reach to some point. I hope so too.
Host 1:25:41
I hope so too. I hope you continue being able to help and support those there as you break down boundaries. And I hope you can even know I'm a vegetarian. I hope that you can get some meat once in a while. As the meat to the bamboo shoots and rice that you're eating.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:25:58
Yeah, but lately we we been able to manage to get meat.
Host 1:26:07
Yeah. How about curry? Any food? Do you have any favorite curry any food that you've tried there?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:26:18
Yeah, but most cringy foods are spicy. Oh, yeah. Really spicy. Like that. I'm getting used to it.
Host 1:26:31
That's great. Do you have any particular dish you like most?
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:26:35
Yeah, it's called conky. Or? I don't know. The boiled rice. Wait, let me check it spell it. I think we pronounce it on geeks even G. You know that? Yeah. Yeah. But it's a bit different from what we eat. Back in home hometown. It's a crazy style cookie. It's spicy and, and it's like more like a paste than a soup. And it it has its unique flavor. I like that both. That's great.
Host 1:27:28
That's great. I hope I can try it someday. Well, thank you so much for taking the chance to join with us. I know what a burden you're under. You're between airstrikes and funerals and the burden of so many dependent on your care. And please stay safe. And thanks again so much for your time here.
Pyae Phyo Kyaw 1:27:53
Thank you too, for giving me this opportunity to be here. And I'm really glad that I get to talk to all the listeners across the world. And I really appreciate all your support and love for us. Thank you.
Host 1:28:32
Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode. As regular listeners are aware, we often remind our audience about our nonprofit mission that are Burma at the end of the show. Truth be told fundraising is hard work. And I can personally attest to the fact that has really no fun to keep asking for contributions. Yet the situation on the ground in Myanmar is so distressing that we continue to do so on behalf of the Burmese people. What is most helpful at this time are recurring donations, which help alleviate both the stress and time involved in fundraising. If you're able to pledge a certain amount per month, our team can plan around having at least a consistent minimum amount to work with every month. If you would like to join in our mission to support those in Myanmar who are being impacted by the military coup. We welcome your contribution, any form currency or transfer method. Your donation will go to support a wide range of humanitarian missions at those local communities who need it most. Donations are directed to such causes as the Civil Disobedience movement CDM families of deceased victims, internally displaced person IDP camps, food for impoverished communities, military defection campaigns, undercover journalists, monasteries and nunneries education initiatives, the purchasing of protective equipment and medical supplies COVID relief and much more. We also make sure that our donation Fund supports a diverse range of religious and ethnic groups across the country. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about past projects as well as upcoming needs You can give a general donation or earmark your contribution for a specific activity or project you would like to support, perhaps even something you heard about in this very episode. All of this humanitarian aid work is carried out by our nonprofit mission that or Burma. Any donation you give on our insight Myanmar website is directed towards this fund. Alternatively, you can also visit the better Burma website better burma.org That's BETTRBU r ma.org. and donate directly there. In either case, your donation goes to the same cause, and both websites accept credit cards. You can also give via PayPal by going to paypal.me/better Burma. Additionally, we take donations through Patreon Venmo, GoFundMe and Cash App. Simply search better Burma on each platform and you'll find our account. You can also visit either the Insight Myanmar better Burma websites for specific links to those respective accounts or email us at info at better burma.org. If you'd like to give it another way, please contact us. Thank you so much for your kind consideration and support. Say this isn't just for LGBT communities for the whole country. Like acknowledging equality and basic human Rights