Lethwei in Myanmar
It was quite a special opportunity to get a chance to hear Dave Leduc’s rise as a Lethwei fighter in Myanmar, as well as how he came to understand the Burmese martial art practice as a foreigner. Indeed, as the only foreigner who actually ascended to champion, he has much to share. As someone who has also shown interest in Buddhist meditation and monasticism, I was curious how Dave saw Burmese monks following lethwei matches, and if it was incompatible with their life of renunciation. Dave’s answer indicates just to what extent lethwei fights are viewed differently within Burmese society as compared to MMA and UFC fights around the world. If you find this interesting, take a listen to Dave’s full interview.
“It doesn’t matter that there is a draw at the end, as long as you show heart and you show that you gave your all.”
Host: I think that some for some listening to this, there might be some confusion of how what has been a very non-violent and pacifist practice of Buddhist meditation, would intersect with what is an extremely violent and brutal sport in lethwei. Concerning the interactions you’ve had with the Burmese Buddhist monks that you've met in your travels there, can you describe, how do you see this intersection between their life of monastic practice and background within that society, with what is just an extremely violent and brutal sport?
Dave Leduc: Oh, that's a very good question, actually. I might have an answer that: I don't think Burmese people see the art of lethwei the same way as people in Western world see it. What I mean by that is that is that we see it as a very brutal sport.
It's very hard to wrap my head around being friends after a fight with a guy. In MMA, there's a big rivalry [between fighters], and there's a lot of trash talk. I'm a bit more like that. But it's not like that for lethwei fighters. They're all friends together! They have lunch and they have tea together. For example, Tun Tun Min and Saw Nga Man, they fought each other. Saw Nga Man is a former champion, and he actually beat him and took the belt from him… and they’re friends. I don't have that relationship with Tun Tun Min. Probably there's a language barrier there too.
But they see it as a brotherhood… It's like the fight, it's a materialization of some kind of warfare. I don't know how to verbalize it.
But my point is, they don't see like that. They see it like we're fighting, and it has nothing to do with real life, and we are friends outside of the ring. But we're just going to punch each other. For me I don't find it very friendly to punch like this!
Why am I saying this? The grandmothers, grandparents, children, woman; they all love to go [see] the [fighting] ring. In the stadium, there's no alcohol served there. It's a very family-oriented even. If you go to UFC, I'm telling you people are drunk. Right? But in Thein Phyu Stadium, there's only popcorns to sell. That's it! There's no alcohol there. Obviously because we're in a Buddhist country, and also Muslims as well. But still.
The fact is they see it as just a sport, like boxing. ‘Lethwei’ actually translates word for word as ‘boxing’, but where there are no gloves. I don't know if that makes sense.
They see it as just as a normal sport, like soccer, or whatever. It just happens that way. It doesn’t matter for them that there is a draw at the end, as long as you show heart and you show that you gave your all. If nobody gets knocked out at the end of a fight in lethwei, then it's declared a draw. And in many cases in boxing or MMA if there's a draw, it's unfulfilling, and the fans are unhappy, and they want to see a clear winner.
But in lethwei, they don't care. You gave your all, you fought, there's blood, and then we lift you up and you give your opponent a hug and then you go drink coffee at the end together because it was just a show. I don’t know, it's a very complicated answer.
Even for monks, it's not unbecoming for a monk to like lethwei, because it's a sport. If it would be for MMA, it's more considered a bit more savage. But at the end of day, lethwei is actually more savage! It's a long answer.